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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ncdan on October 15, 2020, 08:03:48 AM
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Hi guys. Since I got the 02 Stone I’ve not been riding my 38 year old Honda CB1000 hardly any. I decided to take her out yesterday for an extended ride to visit my ailing sister in the next town over. On the interstate at 75 mph the ole girl is such a pleasure to ride, it floats over the highways imperfections and runs smooth and strong, even with carbs and no computer to assist;)
Of the four guzzis I’ve owned now the 02 is the oldest. I was wondering how the older Guzzis(30 years +) compared with the newer ones, as far as ride, dependability and overall character ?
Have a great day👍
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OIL THREAD.
It's going to be answered like this:
* Guys with old bikes saying how much more reliable they are. - they'll cite how easy they are to fix, no computers, gravity feeds fuel, hundreds of thousands of miles (of course, they had decades more to get there) etc.
* Guys with new bikes saying how much more reliable they are. - they'll cite how they start every time and need little to no work, how easy they are to own, how easy it is to load a map or use Guzzidiag if they want to etc.
Statistically speaking modern machines are much more reliable than their historic counterparts. It comes plain and simply from improvements throughout the industry. People will falsely assume that complexity automatically equals higher failure rates but that is simply not true and has been demonstrated throughout the automotive and recreational vehicle industry for decades. That said, people are gonna like what they like, and are going to be comfortable with what they know. And a "reliable" bike that breaks just once on a guy who doesn't know how to fix it is not "reliable" enough right?
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Hi guys. Since I got the 02 Stone I’ve not been riding my 38 year old Honda CB1000 hardly any. I decided to take her out yesterday for an extended ride to visit my ailing sister in the next town over. On the interstate at 75 mph the ole girl is such a pleasure to ride, it floats over the highways imperfections and runs smooth and strong, even with carbs and no computer to assist;)
Of the four guzzis I’ve owned now the 02 is the oldest. I was wondering how the older Guzzis(30 years +) compared with the newer ones, as far as ride, dependability and overall character ?
Have a great day👍
I was thinking there is no way a CB1000 can be 38 years old so I looked it up. You meant 28 years old, right? :grin:
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I was thinking there is no way a CB1000 can be 38 years old so I looked it up. You meant 28 years old, right? :grin:
1983 to 2020= 37 years old, excuse my miscalculation👍
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OIL THREAD.
It's going to be answered like this:
* Guys with old bikes saying how much more reliable they are. - they'll cite how easy they are to fix, no computers, gravity feeds fuel, hundreds of thousands of miles (of course, they had decades more to get there) etc.
* Guys with new bikes saying how much more reliable they are. - they'll cite how they start every time and need little to no work, how easy they are to own, how easy it is to load a map or use Guzzidiag if they want to etc.
Statistically speaking modern machines are much more reliable than their historic counterparts. It comes plain and simply from improvements throughout the industry. People will falsely assume that complexity automatically equals higher failure rates but that is simply not true and has been demonstrated throughout the automotive and recreational vehicle industry for decades. That said, people are gonna like what they like, and are going to be comfortable with what they know. And a "reliable" bike that breaks just once on a guy who doesn't know how to fix it is not "reliable" enough right?
Good assessment Kev. I was just wondering how the guys who has owned and ridden both and compared the two much different motorcycles. Thanks for your thoughtful response my friend.
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1983 to 2020= 37 years old, excuse my miscalculation👍
We must be talking about 2 different bikes. To me a CB1000 looks like this. Made from 1992 to 1996 and first available in the USA in 1994. Could you be referring to the CB1000 Custom?
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd91YpZm/web-right.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Having a 75 T-3 and a 2011 Norge 8V here is my take. I bought the T-3 in 89 with 30 some thousand miles on it and I bought the Norge new. Neither has ever made me call for a a tow or a trailer although they have tried a few times. Both are genuine tour bikes. I would take either currently on a cross country ride. Both put a grin on my face. With that said my observed differences...
Hands down the Norge handling and braking is much better and more secure than the T-3. However the T-3 is much better off pavement.
Especially at low speeds (under 10mph) one can really feel the extra weight and top heaviness of the Norge over the T-3, especially with a full tank. Over 10 both do well. The T-3 feels like a much smaller bike.
The T-3 is much more pleasant to ride in stiff crosswinds.
As expected the T-3 is easier to work on, mainly due to the lack of tupperware.
The T-3 has the throttle lock screw which is nice in the wide open of KS. Poor man's cruise control. The Norge throttle is so light just your resting hand wight generally keeps the throttle where you want it.
For me the Norge seat is much more comfortable to spend a whole day on.
Weather protection on the Norge is great. Upper is good on the T-3 with my set up.
If you enjoy having the Guzzi ego strokes the T-3 makes it almost impossible to have a quick stop anywhere as one is regularly approached by people checking it out. Not near so much on the Norge although I do get an occasional compliment on what a nice looking BMW.
Insurance and registration is much less on the T-3 as it is registered as an antique. Insurance liability is under $40 a year and my annual taxes are $11.
Despite there age differences there is no mistaking they are both Guzzi.
Will probably think of more things.
(https://i.ibb.co/BzsjBn6/DSCN0017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BzsjBn6)
GliderJohn
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We must be talking about 2 different bikes. To me a CB1000 looks like this. Made from 1992 to 1996 and first available in the USA in 1994. Could you be referring to the CB1000 Custom?
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd91YpZm/web-right.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
We must be talking about 2 different bikes. To me a CB1000 looks like this. Made from 1992 to 1996 and first available in the USA in 1994. Could you be referring to the CB1000 Custom?
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd91YpZm/web-right.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.ibb.co/02VX5xf/FDBF5-AF6-AD7-F-4-C38-AA4-B-0-BEE48-ED751-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/02VX5xf)
1983 Honda CB1000c
In 83 there was also the CB1000F model.
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I'll vouch for Dan's 83 CB1000. It's real and really nice and really a 1983.
Kev's points say it all. I prefer older bikes and doubt much (except a significant and enduring influx of disposable income) will sway me to prefer newer bikes. I can compare a fair amount of miles on my best friend's purchased-new V7 Classic to my long-owned V7 Sport. There were lots of comments about how "that's just like your bike", "did you finally restore your old Guzzi?" And more. It was arguably a lot better than my old bike, but I didn't prefer it. It makes me think of comparing a solid-mounted Sportster to a rubber-mounted Sportster. Maybe the bikes are supposedly the same, but they're not. Different feel. Different experience to ride. Different engine. Just different.
That V7 didn't last as long at the shop as other new bikes did before being sold off to the next person. It didn't speak to him either. But we prefer older bikes in general, even though we will usually agree that they're old pieces of junk compared to many modern versions.
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Yes, I wonder how much experience someone has that always makes a point to pontificate on this subject? I have both old and new (er) bikes. I can fix my '80's Guzzi's, because I have more experience with them. I dread having a problem with my newer bike because I'm not as "familiar"
However, I'd rather ride the LMIII over the CX or Cal Vin. The way the 850 delivers the power is just more enjoyable.
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Yes, I wonder how much experience someone has that always makes a point to pontificate on this subject? I have both old and new (er) bikes.
Maybe we should all submit our resumes before we post. </sarcasm>
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Most models have a sweet spot where the tech is proven and everything just works . Yeah, New vehicles are more reliable, because they are new . Here is an example , my sister's 2013 Versa has been a less satisfactory vehicle than the 2004 Sentra it replaced . The older car was more nimble and got superior fuel mileage . The Versa will be gone tomorrow , replaced by a new Kia hybrid .
My take , the '99 -'02 series 1100 CC 2 valvers are in the sweet spot .
Dusty
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I own zero motorcycles older than me. I approve this message. :boozing:
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New vehicles are more reliable, because they are new . Here is an example , my sister's 2013
Uh, yes and no, but that wasn't an example of that.
I purposely didn't address ride or overall character because those are flat out subjective and we all have our preferences. I'm not gonna sit here and tell someone they are wrong for liking something different.
Hell, even though I have a preference for new bikes for an ease of ownership point of view, I fall flatly in the minimal gizmo and I prefer simple over cutting edge performance, so sorta a modern old bike kinda guy.
But back to the reliability thing. I've done the deep dives before on these subjects. New vehicles are more reliable not just because they were just produced and therefore are brand new, but also because the components that make them up tend to last much longer then the ones made decades ago.
I agree that there are unintended consequences with regards to emissions and whatnot that can make them less efficient, and with regards to the automotive world more and more required safety systems add to weight and cost.
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Let me clarify the heart and soul of my post.
There are definitely different characteristics between older and newer bikes, especially when talking about 30 years difference. I was mostly asking about the difference in their characters and how they make you feel when riding them, no so much as mechanical issues or maintenance issues.
That being said all conversations are welcome. Thanks guys and let’s enjoy sharing our thoughts on the subject with each other keeping in mind we all have different opinions and feelings on this subject and every subject but in the end we are fellow guzzi admirers and fans.
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There are definitely different characteristics between older and newer bikes, especially when talking about 30 years difference. I was mostly asking about the difference in their characters and how they make you feel when riding them, no so much as mechanical issues or maintenance issues.
On that I find that there are equally differences between two different modern bikes too.
Be it old or new I am personally drawn to the ones that aren't TOO perfect or TOO appliance-like. I mean in terms of a certain amount of feedback through the chassis in terms of engine feel, suspension, and other traits. That might mean a certain amount of vibration or feedback that the motor is running or it might mean a less than perfect suspension.
But it's all a sliding scale - I don't want TOO much of that either.
I find what that TOO is, well, is very personal, even in terms of frequency of vibration not even strength of vibration.
I think one man's perfect is another's horrible.
I can't say that to me all of this is found in any one old or new bike.
Air head vs Oilhead vs HexHead etc.
Solidmount Sporty vs Rubbermount Sporty
Tonti Cali vs Cali 1400
Heron head smallblock vs hemi head smallblock
But you'll notice none of those examples are say water cooled, chain driven, VVT, etc. I definitely have my preferences.
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👍 good Analysis kev and I agree.
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I've been riding for over 50 years. My oldest bike was a 1960 Stornello and my newest a 2012 Victory. I've enjoyed all but hated only one of the motorcycles I've ever owned. They were all reliable but not all were suitable for differing riding conditions. My 2012 is by far my favorite as it simply does anything and everything I've ever asked of it very well. Plus it's been 100% reliable so I have no reason to doubt it. It has 'enough' technology for me without technology for technologies sake like many newer bikes. Ride modes? Yea, that's fully dependent on my right wrist thank you very much. No Demand Sensor worries for me.
Motorcycles and motorcycling are emotional topics so don't expect your own sound reason to prevail in many aspects of what others enjoy. This is a Moto Guzzi forum so expect Moto Guzzi to be biased in favored over other options. I'm not passionate about owning or riding Vintage motorcycles as I prefer more modern brakes, suspension, fuel management etc.
From owning over a dozen Guzzis over the years as well as reading and participating on this forum from nearly it's inception, I've learned many things. People on internet forums tend to like what they like with only small allowances available for changes in their opinions or areas open for evaluation.
NCDan, I think your beautifully restored Honda is near perfect. You should be proud of everything you've done to it. I wouldn't hesitate to ride it coast to coast, as long as I could install at least a throttle lock as finger tendon damage on my right hand requires it. But I'd prefer to take that coast to coast ride on my Victory Cross Country Tour. Both bikes are equally up to the task and can get the job done with loads of fun and adventure along the way.
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For me this mostly breaks down along carbs/points vs. fuel injection/computer. Personally, I hate messing with points and carbs and that is from mostly trouble free miles on the newer bikes.
I don't mind having either old or new but I prefer having electronic ignitions on the older ones to cut down on tinkering time. Same with cars as I own a 1970 car and it became much easier to own when I installed an electronic ignition.
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Still own my Le Mans2 (bought new) and my 2018 Eldorado ( also bought new ) , both great fun and yes totally different, then
again , so am I :) . Peter
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1983 Honda CB1000c
Ah yes! The all important C suffix. That makes all the difference! :thumb:
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Can't contribute to this because I don't believe I've ever ridden a fuel-injected bike. I kind of enjoy messing with carbs but I've run out of patience with points on any multicylinder bike so I've converted all my old bikes to electronic ignition. That said, my oldest bikes -- the TR6 and 850T -- are the most fun to ride on pavement. Not so much off.
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This could be a looong thread, so I'll be brief.
I have an 1100 Griso and an 850 T3, both set up with flyscreens and used mostly around southwest Wisconsin. Neither has stranded me over about 30,000 miles on each. I have just taken each on a similar ride of two or three hours through the hilly parts.
The Griso is effortless and powerful, with very good suspension and cornering capability. The T3, by contrast, turns into corners more easily and is easier for me to body-steer and feel at-one with during corners. (The Griso has stock suspension, set up by me following a published guide; the T3 has Wirth progressive fork springs, aftermarket fork dampers (forget the name) and Ikon shocks, all worthwhile and also set up by me.)
The T3 holds a constant speed much better, because of its flywheel. The Griso constantly wandered and reacted to small inputs until I installed an electronic cruise control. Now it holds its speed very well, but it doesn't have the same illusion of train-like inertia as the T3. (That's bad.) They both do well in crosswinds.
I replaced the T3's points with electronic ignition, replaced its cylinders and did a boatload of other work and would not hesitate to take it on long trips (and it's been on some). In some ways, the Griso is a bit more iffy on long trips in terms of support from shops --- IF it ever broke down. Any Volkswagen mechanic could fix the T3, or I could, with the tools I carry. A toss up -- they are both good for long trips. They are both about equally uncomfortable after three or so hours.
I like the lower feel and responsiveness in cornering of the T3 enough to put it on par with the Griso, even though the latter is a stronger performer on the whole.
Moto
Oh, one more thing: I STRONGLY prefer the integral brake setup of the T3, even though the absolute braking power is inferior.
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Still own my Le Mans2 (bought new) and my 2018 Eldorado ( also bought new ) , both great fun and yes totally different, then
again , so am I :) . Peter
Yea, they had a C- custom and an F- model which was a sport version that was chain driven👍
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I've been riding for over 50 years. My oldest bike was a 1960 Stornello and my newest a 2012 Victory. I've enjoyed all but hated only one of the motorcycles I've ever owned. They were all reliable but not all were suitable for differing riding conditions. My 2012 is by far my favorite as it simply does anything and everything I've ever asked of it very well. Plus it's been 100% reliable so I have no reason to doubt it. It has 'enough' technology for me without technology for technologies sake like many newer bikes. Ride modes? Yea, that's fully dependent on my right wrist thank you very much. No Demand Sensor worries for me.
Motorcycles and motorcycling are emotional topics so don't expect your own sound reason to prevail in many aspects of what others enjoy. This is a Moto Guzzi forum so expect Moto Guzzi to be biased in favored over other options. I'm not passionate about owning or riding Vintage motorcycles as I prefer more modern brakes, suspension, fuel management etc.
From owning over a dozen Guzzis over the years as well as reading and participating on this forum from nearly it's inception, I've learned many things. People on internet forums tend to like what they like with only small allowances available for changes in their opinions or areas open for evaluation.
NCDan, I think your beautifully restored Honda is near perfect. You should be proud of everything you've done to it. I wouldn't hesitate to ride it coast to coast, as long as I could install at least a throttle lock as finger tendon damage on my right hand requires it. But I'd prefer to take that coast to coast ride on my Victory Cross Country Tour. Both bikes are equally up to the task and can get the job done with loads of fun and adventure along the way.
Just one observation mark. I was fortunate enough to have found a totally factory CB with only 4K miles. The Vetter equipment was at the time a dealer option. Thanks for the well thought out response👍
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I guess the answer to this one is the same answer as the thread about travel preferences: the older I get, the less patience I have for drama. So, NO to bikes needing frequent fettling, NO to sleeping on the ground, NO to riding with guys who ride like their arses are on fire. :evil: I'll take boring if it gets me there and back comfortably and without fuss. Lighter, smaller, easier to get parts. That's my meat.
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I guess the answer to this one is the same answer as the thread about travel preferences: the older I get, the less patience I have for drama. So, NO to bikes needing frequent fettling, NO to sleeping on the ground, NO to riding with guys who ride like their arses are on fire. :evil: I'll take boring if it gets me there and back comfortably and without fuss. Lighter, smaller, easier to get parts. That's my meat.
That’s a fair statement..
I have a CB 250 Honda under the house if you want it... :popcorn:
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That’s a fair statement..
I have a CB 250 Honda under the house if you want it... :popcorn:
It may come to that.... :grin:
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That’s a fair statement..
I have a CB 250 Honda under the house if you want it... :popcorn:
Lol, now that was just wrong 😂😂
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Great thread Dan, I think Kev pretty much summed it up . I would just like to add that unless your old enough, (as most here are) to have both perspectives , it is a difficult question to answer. i think anyone coming from one side of the equation would find it difficult to even consider, or understand the other alternative. It speaks volumes that a lot of us here that are both old enough and able enough to embrace either of the two options, seem to enjoy the older option the most. That is unless they are heading out across the continent.
Got to have both is my short answer.
When I really want to enjoy riding a motorcycle in its purest form there is no delay in the decision,old or new, V50 lets go! Wouldn't head to North Carolina two up on it though.
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Lol, now that was just wrong 😂😂
Yet, so on topic.
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Great thread Dan, I think Kev pretty much summed it up . I would just like to add that unless your old enough, (as most here are) to have both perspectives , it is a difficult question to answer. i think anyone coming from one side of the equation would find it difficult to even consider, or understand the other alternative. It speaks volumes that a lot of us here that are both old enough and able enough to embrace either of the two options, seem to enjoy the older option the most. That is unless they are heading out across the continent.
Got to have both is my short answer.
When I really want to enjoy riding a motorcycle in its purest form there is no delay in the decision,old or new, V50 lets go! Wouldn't head to North Carolina two up on it though.
Ah come on Dave, I’ll come and get you when you cry UNCLE and trailer the little bike the rest of the way to the river. However I’ll hold my breath until the day you cry UNCLE👍😂
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I’m not yet an old man who is tired of challenges and is willing to give up independence, quite the opposite... I think getting old means going very fast on a self-maintained motorcycle without working at it as I once did, with other guys who can do the same... because we have the privilege of 40 years of learning under our belts, with 20 more to go. What they’re selling dealers today, mostly ‘compliance-mobiles’ from my POV, doesn’t really do it for me but you can ride what you want :grin:
I like fast, stylish bikes without closed loop fuel controls (EFI is easy until you screw it up with over complexity), without onboard IT networks, without ABS or anything else but lean and mean design that gets me the job done with the minimum of hardware. I don’t care when that hardware was built.
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I’m not yet an old man who is tired of challenges and is willing to give up independence, quite the opposite... I think getting old means going very fast on a self-maintained motorcycle without working at it as I once did, with other guys who can do the same... because we have the privilege of 40 years of learning under our belts, with 20 more to go. What they’re selling dealers today, compliance mobiles from my POV, doesn’t really do it for me but you can ride what you want :grin:
I like fast, stylish bikes without closed loop fuel controls (EFI is easy until you screw it up with over complexity), without onboard IT networks, without ABS or anything else but lean and mean design that gets me the job done with the minimum of hardware. I don’t care when that hardware was built.
I think that’s pretty much where I’m at as I’m way behind the ball when it comes to modern technology in today’s bikes. A true motorcycle lover must admit there’s something magical about riding an old nostalgic bike like a 650 Bonnie, BSA shooting star, suicide shift HD and can you imagine riding a Vincent Black Shadow!!!!
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I think that’s pretty much where I’m at as I’m way behind the ball when it comes to modern technology in today’s bikes. A true motorcycle lover must admit there’s something magical about riding an old nostalgic bike like a 650 Bonnie, BSA shooting star, suicide shift HD and can you imagine riding a Vincent Black Shadow!!!!
I make my living in technology and have learned that it’s a fine way to make a lot of money. If somebody thinks it’s beneficial to motorcycling, enjoys being a bill paying lap dog for BMW or whomever, they can go for it. If I had to pick one, my own sweet spot is the 1990s, early nineties for Japanese etc stuff, later 90s for Italian bikes... from manufacturers who even by that time still hadn’t lost the plot. I haven’t found myself much interested in Piaggio and VW/Ducati’s more recent version.
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Most models have a sweet spot where the tech is proven and everything just works . Yeah, New vehicles are more reliable, because they are new . Here is an example , my sister's 2013 Versa has been a less satisfactory vehicle than the 2004 Sentra it replaced . The older car was more nimble and got superior fuel mileage . The Versa will be gone tomorrow , replaced by a new Kia hybrid .
My take , the '99 -'02 series 1100 CC 2 valvers are in the sweet spot .
Dusty
I have to agree.. The California EV/Stone/jackal are kinda the best of bolth... Heart of the old T bikes, with enough modern changes to make them go longer without work.. but not so much that its too hard to fix when needed.
As for whats better?? Well how long is a piece of string? Cant deny that most any modern bike you can jump on and go whereever you want and really not worry. But sometimes you like that feeling of....well the feeling that your thankfull you have a well thought out tool kit with you.. The vibs, the noise, the dirty pants from laying in the dirt tighting a bolt.. the joy of making that long trip and didnt have to fiddle at all.. Feeling ore connected..
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I have been perfectly happy with my Cal for nineteen years. I will keep it forever and for years I thought that I'd never buy another bike. Then I fell into my Monster last fall and I really like that one now, too! The two have very different technology and personalities. I think that old and new bikes have their own unique attractions.
Larry
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But sometimes you like that feeling of....well the feeling that your thankfull you have a well thought out tool kit with you.. The vibs, the noise, the dirty pants from laying in the dirt tighting a bolt.. the joy of making that long trip and didnt have to fiddle at all.. Feeling ore connected..
This past Saturday...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ccnYfHA6oMOr324pFoNwGhg5xHheYeqmMMiUP2UAcRxCg7aviu0CVp3pdKauXc6mHMDHKA1BmotUE9hHJu7jOMPvVrNEWMVKRcJHlZwMdMrSEApQizM-GcDHPPfBoo5KUmm2fKUDrNfcvFrjx6cwtDYQ=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
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I have to agree.. The California EV/Stone/jackal are kinda the best of bolth... Heart of the old T bikes, with enough modern changes to make them go longer without work.. but not so much that its too hard to fix when needed.
As for whats better?? Well how long is a piece of string? Cant deny that most any modern bike you can jump on and go whereever you want and really not worry. But sometimes you like that feeling of....well the feeling that your thankfull you have a well thought out tool kit with you.. The vibs, the noise, the dirty pants from laying in the dirt tighting a bolt.. the joy of making that long trip and didnt have to fiddle at all.. Feeling ore connected..
Very nice response!
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An "old" bike is only as good as it's mechanic.
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Let me clarify the heart and soul of my post.
There are definitely different characteristics between older and newer bikes, especially when talking about 30 years difference. I was mostly asking about the difference in their characters and how they make you feel when riding them, no so much as mechanical issues or maintenance issues.
That being said all conversations are welcome. Thanks guys and let’s enjoy sharing our thoughts on the subject with each other keeping in mind we all have different opinions and feelings on this subject and every subject but in the end we are fellow guzzi admirers and fans.
Having just bought my first newer bike, here's my take between it and the old one. The 07 CalVin is smoother riding, though this may be because I need to rebuild the front forks on the 74 Eldo. It also has significantly more power, due to the larger engine size. You can feel the difference in how hard the engines are working at highway speeds, and it's huge. On the other hand, even though the CalVin is only about 60 pounds heavier than the Eldo, it feels like 150, because the engine sits so much higher up in the CalVin. The low center of gravity on the Eldo makes it a nimble joy to ride. The higher center of gravity on the CalVin makes it noticeably more work to stand up and maneuver, especially at low speeds. That being said, I still love the CalVin.
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An "old" bike is only as good as it's mechanic.
Yep.
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Yep.
That’s a fact. However one thought on that issue was s this. Most of us older guys that came up from the 60s grew into the old system, carbs, points and simple electronics. Some of the guys here obviously made the transition to the new technology, which I did not, therefore struggled with the new.
That being out of the way, the way the two different worlds of motorcycles how do the two variations make us feel when we ride?
I really love both but again, for me these is just something really special about riding an old simple bike 30+ years old. Kind of like watching an old steam shovel or locomotive come down the track.
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When does 'old' stop and 'new' start? Its a sliding scale?
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When does 'old' stop and 'new' start? Its a sliding scale?
Yea I agree. I guess I look as old bikes being 30 years old and back? But even that is subject to opinion.
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When does 'old' stop and 'new' start? Its a sliding scale?
Old is carbs and points but old can become middle-aged if you add electronic ignition.
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Part of my attachment to the 850T is the theory of diminishing returns. I don't believe that motorbike power and handling have improved enough over the decades that switching to a new bike full of electronic black boxes is going to gain me much. For instance see the episode recently where Ari Henning and Zach Courts tested a 2005 GSXR against a brand new Panigale, on the same tires -- and the Suzuki turned better track times. Link below. I know from experience that on my 850T, if I choose to, I can set a quicker average pace on a twisty mountain road than all but one of my friends riding "modern" bikes -- and the faster guy is 40 years younger. I'm not going to have more fun or be more comfortable on his Versys.
I do concede that water cooling produces better power all else being equal. But I don't need more power, especially if it comes at the expense of having to pull the cam(s) just to adjust the valves.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2020-ducati-panigale-v4-2005-suzuki-gsxr1000-superbike-test