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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Arctic Fox on October 18, 2020, 05:15:23 AM
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Hello,
Newbie here (I just did my introducing post :tongue:).
Sorry my first (probably stupid) question will concern tires. My bike is Moto Guzzi Nevada. Original sizes of tires are: front: 100/90-18'' and rear 130/90-16''.
I admit I'm pretty inexperienced rider :embarassed: :sad:... but that is what it is (can not help on that and only time will help) and riding on sand roads (with small rocks) was so scary experience ... so I wonder could I made my bike any easier on that with using different kinds of tires (next riding season)? Opposite I would not want to make road riding too unpleasant/hard/difficult either. Naturally nothing off road with Nevada ... but I meant roads like this:
(https://i.ibb.co/QCY38VP/Hiekkatie-maaseudulla-kesalla.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QCY38VP)
(https://i.ibb.co/Rp3T8XF/1488136413778-1-large.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Rp3T8XF)
(https://i.ibb.co/hFKq1Km/normal-Hiekkatie2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hFKq1Km)
What I have found:
Front tire:
Dunlop D602
https://www.tiregom.co.uk/dunlop/d602/tire-100-90-R18-56-P-45157501500
Bridgestone Adventurecross scrambler AX41S
https://fi.mynetmoto.com/shop.cfm/mnm000011487/bridgestone-100-90--18-(56h)-adventurecross-scrambler-ax41s.html
Rear tire:
Bates Baja 90
https://www.wwag.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WebSite.woa/wa/DirectAction?page=!WW42765
Duro HF-904 Median
https://www.wwag.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WebSite.woa/wa/DirectAction?page=%21WW41404
Bridgestone Trail-wing 202 (but this is wrong size: 120/90-16'')
https://www.caferacerwebshop.com/en/bridgestone-trail-wing-tw202-120-90-16-tt-63-p.html
Could any 3.25/18 - 4.0 /18 tire fit to front tire and any 4.25/16 - 4.5/16 tire to rear tire :undecided:?
Free to recommend anything :azn:.
PS: My dream bike would be either Triumph Tiger 800 or Moto Guzzi V85TT (if those will not feel too high :sad:). Guzzi wins all other ways,
except I have weird soft pot against sound of Triumph's 3 cylinder engine. I hope nobody will kill me here now :grin:.
I still will need to wait years before I can buy either of those (until selling prices of used ones have dropped enough).
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No question here will be seen as stupid..
Answers to your query will be along shortly. Welcome.
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Nice pictures, that sort of surface can be tricky especially when dry, it seems to be better when damp.
Welcome to the forum, you will get lots of help with tires when everyone wakes up
Can we assume North is North America?
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Nice pictures, that sort of surface can be tricky especially when dry, it seems to be better when damp.
Welcome to the forum, you will get lots of help with tires when everyone wakes up
Can we assume North is North America?
Sorry, nope. North-Europe (Scandinavia). The smallest roads of rural areas/country sides can be like those. In my case, if I for example ride to our family's summer place/log cabin ... I'm forced to face something like that.
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Tires will not make much difference.The only way to get comfortable on gravel roads is to practice and wear protective gear.Ride a dirt bike off road until you are comfortable.
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No question here will be seen as stupid..
Answers to your query will be along shortly. Welcome.
Thank you.
I though to ask that if anyone would have tested ''all round tires'' or ''80/20 tires'' etc. in their bikes (and could share their experiences).
And who knows some might have even transform this kind of small Guzzi to scrambler type of bike?
I'm also interesting to hear (opinions) how much I could differ from the original sizes (tire dimensions). Just because options are pretty limited. Wheels (wide) alone will set some limitations, but I more like think handling of bike.
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Tires will not make much difference.The only way to get comfortable on gravel roads is to practice and wear protective gear.Ride a dirt bike off road until you are comfortable.
Honestly, this was the answer I hoped not to hear. Of course if it is true, then I guess there is nothing to do about matter :sad:
I have no money for another bike (plus insurances are not cheap either). And even if I would it is not possible to change bike just then needed (from one to another).
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Cruisers make it a little more diffcult on unsealed roads, however wieght the pegs with you feet, grip the tank with your knees keep your shoulders and arms relaxed and don't chase every tweak that comes through the bars. Lean opposite to the bike i.e. not what you do on the road and keep your wieght in a line above the wheels, look where you want to go and powering out will give more stability wheel speed = more gyroscopic stability. More importantly go do it.
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But why scramblers have different kind of tires? Are those just for looks? Here're few (internet pictures) ... bikes done from Nevadas.
(https://i.ibb.co/3NsnY83/moto-guzzi-nevada-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3NsnY83)
(https://i.ibb.co/30XpSJv/moto-guzzi-nevada.jpg) (https://ibb.co/30XpSJv)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZcLqpZq/501953cd9c918d6e540c5132673f4d7d.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZcLqpZq)
(https://i.ibb.co/xSRPfCY/82e9f86f493094cba05793ead386b845.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xSRPfCY)
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Artic Fox -- tires are definitely a challenge for your Nevada, especially that 16 inch rear.
Consider adding the Kenda K761 Dual Sport to your list of candidates. The front tire is a lower profile but should not be a problem.
You are correct in considering tires outside the profiles Moto Guzzi specified. For your Nevada and the roads you pictured, I think a bit narrower profile should provide more stability.
You need the following accessories: engine guard (eg, Hepco & Becker), centerstand (eg, Hepco & Becker), tall windscreen (rock protection), Pazzo brake and clutch levels (short not long), and SPOT Gen4 Messenger.
You also need a good two-piece riding suit (not leather, I'm partial to Aerostich), boots with lugs (but not motocross boots), and gauntlet gloves with palm protection.
It is likely you will be surprised by the road and find you are no longer "two wheels down". So you want to increase the likelihood you and your Nevada get back on two wheels and headed down the road again. Or if you can't let your friends and family know where you are.
I drove a BMW K100 to work from my rural home in the mountains including rain and snow with street tires. Sometimes the dirt road was so slick I had to get off the motorcycle, drive it into the gully next to the road, and walk the motorcycle up the hill. Yep I fell dozens of times. Never with an injury to myself or the motorcycle.
The folks at the Adventure Rider forum can provide additional suggestions for traveling on graveled roads.
I think once you get some miles with new tires and riding gear, you will discover the joys of adventure riding. :smiley:
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Tires will not make much difference.The only way to get comfortable on gravel roads is to practice and wear protective gear.Ride a dirt bike off road until you are comfortable.
I must respectfully disagree. Proper tires are a must. A strictly street tread will be extra slippery on unpaved roads no matter your riding experience. Especially a Nevada that is difficult to stand up on because of feet forward.
Artic Fox, I run 80/20 Shinko 705’s. They do fine on gravel roads. I also commute with them and get aggressive lean angles on pavement. Great all around tires. My rear is about worn out, I’m replacing Tuesday with Dunlop trailsmart 90/10 bc they were on sale. I’ll let you know how they work.
My friend had shinko 805 tires on his Triumph Scrambler 1200. He raves about them. Those are what I’m putting on my Quota next, after I go thru the 3 Dunlops I bought.
(https://i.ibb.co/bg1HM2J/91381422-846-B-4-E19-A802-B1997-CA0-AB15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bg1HM2J)
My Trophy 900 is getting a sport touring tire for its front. Again, proper tire for intended use. I don’t wear my steel toe work boots to golf in.
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Guys,
Don't make this more difficult than necessary.
Our young friend will do some of her riding on good, but unpaved roads. Not off road.
Like all sensible Finns I'm sure she has good protective gear. She's just starting out riding, and will gain experience.
She has a concrete list of suggestions - is there anybody who can comment on those?
(I can't, don't know those tires and don't do any riding on gravel to speak of)
Welcome to the Board, Arctic Fox!
I hope you'll enjoy your Nevada, and that there's a V85 in your future! :grin:
You have a beautiful and well equipped bike. Admittedly I don't know anything about the Finnish Guzzi community, but I wouldn't be surprised if you'll find the world's foremost expertise on Guzzi small blocks, including the Nevada, here on Wildguzzi!
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Artic Fox -- tires are definitely a challenge for your Nevada, especially that 16 inch rear.
Consider adding the Kenda K761 Dual Sport to your list of candidates. The front tire is a lower profile but should not be a problem.
You are correct in considering tires outside the profiles Moto Guzzi specified. For your Nevada and the roads you pictured, I think a bit narrower profile should provide more stability.
You need the following accessories: engine guard (eg, Hepco & Becker), centerstand (eg, Hepco & Becker), tall windscreen (rock protection), Pazzo brake and clutch levels (short not long), and SPOT Gen4 Messenger.
You also need a good two-piece riding suit (not leather, I'm partial to Aerostich), boots with lugs (but not motocross boots), and gauntlet gloves with palm protection.
It is likely you will be surprised by the road and find you are no longer "two wheels down". So you want to increase the likelihood you and your Nevada get back on two wheels and headed down the road again. Or if you can't let your friends and family know where you are.
I drove a BMW K100 to work from my rural home in the mountains including rain and snow with street tires. Sometimes the dirt road was so slick I had to get off the motorcycle, drive it into the gully next to the road, and walk the motorcycle up the hill. Yep I fell dozens of times. Never with an injury to myself or the motorcycle.
The folks at the Adventure Rider forum can provide additional suggestions for traveling on graveled roads.
I think once you get some miles with new tires and riding gear, you will discover the joys of adventure riding. :smiley:
Here's my Nevada.
(https://i.ibb.co/bWMzj8b/IMG-0816-kopio.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bWMzj8b)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bqspzn4/IMG-0823-kopio.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bqspzn4)
(https://i.ibb.co/tJVqS36/IMG-0825-kopio.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tJVqS36)
As you see I have some kind of engine guards on it and very high windscreen :azn: (even to high for me, I'm just 1,64cm ... ex. owner). I also have heated grips on it (lovely here at spring and autumn times) & handlebar wind protectors. Led clock, thermometer, voltmeter combo. I have oil thermometer on bike. I got old TomTom navigator from my Dad (incl. European maps) and bough suitable motorcycle case for it. I also bough case for my mobile phone. Plus with bike I also got 2 cameras system (front and back + 5'' screen) new on box, mechanical cruiser (new on box), tire pressure system (new on box). So there is something to think now as winter is coming (not only those tires). And the best? I got all the original parts with bike, so I can return it back anytime (if needed).
Oh and what comes to safety issues!? Shortly; I did not save money here (even if the bike was not expensive). I bought Schubert C4 helmet (phone + radio :grin:), good quality jacket and pants (protectors, waterproof, removable linings), good boots, 2 gloves (for different weather), neck protector and even separate chest - back protector.
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I got Shinko 705 tires on ny California ev. Gold on gravelroads. :bike-037:
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I got Shinko 705 tires on ny California ev. Gold on gravelroads. :bike-037:
Am I right if I say that both Shinko 705 or 805 tires are out of picture (there are not much offerings for 18'' and 16'' wheels) ?
https://shinkotireusa.com/product/705-series-dual-sport-tire/211929
https://shinkotireusa.com/product/e804e805-adventure-trail-tire/211930
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Arctic Fox -- you certainly are thoroughly prepared.
Some observations:
1. Your saddlebags will augment your engine guards on getting the motorcycle back up after a fall.
2. The short Pazzo levers are less likely to bend in a fall.
3. If the Scandinavian cell phone coverage includes your gravelled roads then you don't need the SPOT's global coverage.
4. The extended moment arm of the two driving lights mounted on your forks may affect stable handling. Consider relocating them to the engine guards.
WRT Shinko 705s, I don't see any 16s and I would use the narrower 4.10 over the 120/80 front.
WRT Shinko 805s, 150/80 is a big rear.
I think you have better tire choices.
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Guys,
Don't make this more difficult than necessary.
Our young friend will do some of her riding on good, but unpaved roads. Not off road.
Like all sensible Finns I'm sure she has good protective gear. She's just starting out riding, and will gain experience.
She has a concrete list of suggestions - is there anybody who can comment on those?
(I can't, don't know those tires and don't do any riding on gravel to speak of)
Welcome to the Board, Arctic Fox!
I hope you'll enjoy your Nevada, and that there's a V85 in your future! :grin:
You have a beautiful and well equipped bike. Admittedly I don't know anything about the Finnish Guzzi community, but I wouldn't be surprised if you'll find the world's foremost expertise on Guzzi small blocks, including the Nevada, here on Wildguzzi!
Thank you.
(Yes, I need to be worse kind of Finn .... ''a swede'' born & lived in Finland :azn: ; I have dual nationality).
You're right (what comes to those roads).
I will need to change the tires before next season. So the question goes, have I anything to lose here?
How the bike will handle on asphalt roads? I'm not so worry if new tires would wear bit faster or would be tine louder. But if the handling of the bike will become more difficult (dry or wet roads); that is negative matter.
Oh, if tires will really have no influences at all, then I might buy some whitewall tires to my bike.
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Honestly, this was the answer I hoped not to hear. Of course if it is true, then I guess there is nothing to do about matter :sad:
I have no money for another bike (plus insurances are not cheap either). And even if I would it is not possible to change bike just then needed (from one to another).
I agree with previous post stating that tires won't make much of a difference. Having ridden off-road for 35+ years, I became very used to the lose, insecure feeling when riding on gravel roads. So, when riding street bikes not having maximum traction has never bothered me. Although, I do know people who have never ridden off road that become very fearful when encountering gravel roads.
Maybe some "adventure bike" style tires will work for you, but the thing that is going to work best is to get more experience riding on gravel roads and learn how your bike feels when riding on lose surfaces. Another thing to consider, is that speed is often your friend. Trying to ride very slowly with a fear of falling can be more difficult than riding faster (40kph as opposed to 10kph which can add stability).
Practice and increased confidence will help more than anything.
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Arctic Fox -- GeorgiaGuzzi gave you excellent tire advice. You're looking for an "Adventure" tire often rated in the road/off-road ratio 80/20 or 90/10. Today's Adventure tire compounds and tread designs are much superior to those when your Nevada first same out (actually I don't think the category existed yet). As GeorgiaGuzzi pointed out, today's Adventure tires have good road-holding properties and adequate off-roading properties. Although I don't know of any in WhiteWall. :laugh:
When I say "off-road" I'm referring to non-paved "improved" (ie graded, etc) roads. I am not referring to trail-riding which is very much different due to terrain, grooving, hazards, etc. Adventure riding and Trail-riding require different tire compounds and tread designs as well as suspensions, footpeg locations, weight distribution, riding technique, etc. Compare Arctic Fox's Nevada pictures with the scrambler pictures.
One note: when packing put the heavy stuff in the side cases and minimize the weight in the top case. Same reason as driving light -- reduce moment arm.
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roadventure -- concur aggressively-treaded street tires are good enough for dry flat gravelled roads but Arctic Fox looks to be prepared for more adventure-some roads: cold, wet, muddy, maybe snow, probably hills. If I had 80/20 adventure tires back when I was riding my K100, I could have ridden all the warm home in the mud and snow instead of getting off, driving the motorcycle into the gully, and walking beside it IN THE RURAL DARKNESS to get home. Certainly skills are needed but I take advantage of technology when offered.
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FRONT TYRES:
Here's something about Dunlop D 602
https://www.dunlop.eu/en_gb/motorcycle/tires/d602.D602.html#/
Here's something about Bridgestone Adventurecross scrambler AX41S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Ku7Vy4ioY
Here's something about Kenda K-761 (wrong side 120/80-18'')
https://adventuremotorcycle.com/gear/gear-kenda-k761-enduro-tires
Here's something about Heidenau K67 (wrong side 4.0-18)
https://www.heidenautires.com/product/k-67/
Here's something about Bridgestone AX41 (wrong side: 100/80-18'')
https://adventuremotorcycle.com/gear/bridgestone-battlax-ax41-tires
REAR TYRES:
Here's something about Bates Baja tire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6d9Wc8Povc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKR_8z8gPu8
Here's something about Duro HF-904 tire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6abQc3l2WE
Here's something about Bridgestone TW 202 (wrong side: 120/90-16'')
https://www.bridgestone.co.uk/motorcycle-tyres/trail-wing/tw202/
http://justbikethings.blogspot.com/2015/12/bridgestone-trail-wing-tw202-review.html
Here's something about Bridgestone AX41 (wrong side: 120/90-16'')
https://adventuremotorcycle.com/gear/bridgestone-battlax-ax41-tires
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Although I don't know of any in WhiteWall. :laugh:
I was partly joking. But if the outcome is that it is all the same what kind of tires I'll put ... then I could think of those (just based on looks). But there would again be problem with that front tire (100/90-18). I would need to put wider tire on front ... 4.0-18''. There are no whitewall front tire at size 100/90-18.
Just to say ... I have ride that same road with neighbor's Kawasaki KMX 125 with speed of 60 - 70km/h without any fear/problems and now scared like hell with Guzzi at speed 25 - 30km/h. Few times basically needed to put my feet down and simply stop just to not fall down. Hills down were the most hardest. It felt like riding on small marbles/ball bearings.
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I'm not recommending Kenda it's just hard to find an Adventure tire in 16". Kenda K761 has a 110/80-18 front (close enough) and a 130/90-16 rear, both tubeless so check for bead compatibility before deciding. Beyond that I have no tire suggestions.
Yep you've just summarized the gap between a trail bike and a street bike. The Nevada will never handle like the KMX but as you see many of us on this forum think with Adventure tires and some practice you'll be comfortable at 60kmh.
I knew those sunny, flat, picturesque roads you showed us were just postcards, probably not even Scandinavia and maybe even northern Italy. I just knew you were going to ride much more challenging roads. And I was right! :laugh:
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I'm not recommending Kenda it's just hard to find an Adventure tire in 16". Kenda K761 has a 110/80-18 front (close enough) and a 130/90-16 rear, both tubeless so check for bead compatibility before deciding. Beyond that I have no tire suggestions.
Yep you've just summarized the gap between a trail bike and a street bike. The Nevada will never handle like the KMX but as you see many of us on this forum think with Adventure tires and some practice you'll be comfortable at 60kmh.
I knew those sunny, flat, picturesque roads you showed us were just postcards, probably not even Scandinavia and maybe even northern Italy. I just knew you were going to ride much more challenging roads. And I was right! :laugh:
Those pictures/roads were really from Finland. But to get the idea.of ''problem'' .. they maintenance those roads like this. Now keep in minds ... the weather conditions are ''hard'' here. 4 different seasons. Every winter the frost goes in the ground. Raining at autumn, snow at winter, melting snow (water) at spring time etc.
(https://vayla.fi/documents/25230764/35414346/sorastus-vaylafi.jpg/8b6da2f9-86f1-4989-8a12-59a2ec2d5da7?t=1573487425259)
(https://vayla.fi/documents/25230764/35414346/sorastus-vaylafi-2.jpg/0bda3518-93be-49ca-86c7-0fed406b70eb?t=1573487704004)
(https://koneporssi.com/wp-content/uploads/assets/files/81842/dsc_0073_rajattu.595x397.jpg)
(https://hirviniementie.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/tiekarhu.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIn69ywXgAAD97E.jpg)
There are loose small rocks on the roads. That will not influence a lot if you drive a car (except that Finland has produced lots of Rally driver World Champions :wink:) ... but to bike those are poison.
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I don't do enough riding on dirt to warrant changing from the road tyres, so I don't have advice for specific tyres, but generally narrow tyres work better on dirt. I wouldn't go any wider than the 100 on the front & the 130 on the rear if possible. A slightly chunkier tyre, not the aggressive, full blown dirt version, should be enough to give you a better sense of control, so a 90/10 or 80/20 should be enough. While the 16 inch rear wheel is not ideal for dirt (as you've noticed) it should be manageable. Familiarity breeds contempt, they say - so the secret is practice. I do note that those who grew up riding dirt tend to be be better riders than those of us who didn't. They tend to have had more practice with unstable surfaces. A steady throttle works better. Practice going up and down those roads again & again, preferably with the bike unladen, and you'll end up building up speed and confidence, (and knowing every every dip, bump, stone, soft patch on the road, and in all conditions). The bike can handle it, and likely better at a speed higher than you are comfortable with at present. Those roads look like they are decent 60-80kph roads, comfotable in 4th & 5th gear. The pea gravel on corners after the road has been recently graded require some care. Enjoy yourself, it's supposed to be fun. You'll be throwing the rear wheel out, under control, in no time at all.
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Arctic Fox -- great pictures. Finland is serious about its unpaved roads. Here in Southern California, I think the County government borrows a grader from the State government for a few weeks and pretends to scrape a few roads. If someone gives them some gravel, they'll dump most of it next to the paved road.
The pictures confirmed several things:
1 -- deep gullies paralleling the road (not much fun to ride in, best avoided)
2 -- grassy areas paralleling the road (grass in almost any condition is slick and you will be riding on grass at some time for some reason)
3 -- not all that gravel is going to stay on the road, some will be in the air for a number of reasons
Therefore irrespective of your cellphone service, I repeat my recommendation you get a GlobalStar SPOT Gen4 one-way messenger and location tracker. It provides various types of reporting functions including manual check-in with family and friends and automatic reporting if you stop moving for a certain period of time. My Firefox browser doesn't accept GlobalStar's SSL handshake but I'm pretty sure coverage includes Finland. And when you're not using it, your trekker and rally car friends can. :laugh:
malik's point on tire width is excellent. You might want to expand your search to a size down.
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Am I right if I say that both Shinko 705 or 805 tires are out of picture (there are not much offerings for 18'' and 16'' wheels) ?
https://shinkotireusa.com/product/705-series-dual-sport-tire/211929
https://shinkotireusa.com/product/e804e805-adventure-trail-tire/211930
Apologies, I am at work and type faster than I think. Not that that’s hard to do. I included a pic of my bike so you could have an idea of the style of tread I was referencing. Not really the specific tyre. Having seen what type of road maintenance you’re speaking of, I would recommend the Dunlop D602 for front, the Bates followed by the Duro for the rear. You want blocky open tread over directional tread. The more paved road riding you do vs unpaved the directional treads will be better. Stay out of the loose stuff on the edges of the road. That deep gravel requires experience. You’ll gain experience with time and soon be comfortable on even bad roads.
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Apologies, I am at work and type faster than I think. Not that that’s hard to do. I included a pic of my bike so you could have an idea of the style of tread I was referencing. Not really the specific tyre. Having seen what type of road maintenance you’re speaking of, I would recommend the Dunlop D602 for front, the Bates followed by the Duro for the rear. You want blocky open tread over directional tread. The more paved road riding you do vs unpaved the directional treads will be better. Stay out of the loose stuff on the edges of the road. That deep gravel requires experience. You’ll gain experience with time and soon be comfortable on even bad roads.
Now I also looked speed rates and load indexes of these tires.
Front tire:
Speed rate of Dunlop D602 is low; P (150km/h).
H (210km/h) seems to be standard with normal tires offered to Nevada.
Of course whole bike will not go nearly that fast :laugh:. Even T would be more than enough.
Bridgestone Adventurecross Scrambler AX41S speed rate would still be that H and load index same 56.
Kenda K-761 speed rate would also be H and load index bit higher 58 (vs 56) Size is not exactly same 110/80-18 vs 100/90-18, but pretty close?
https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=100-90r18-110-80r18
Bridgestone AX41 speed rate is P (150km/h) and more wrong tire side (100/80-18'')
Lastly Heidanau K-67 speed rate is T (190km/h), but tire is also more different (4.0-18 = 4.0/100-18)
https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=100-90r18-101-100r18
Based on just those above: Bridgestone Adventurecross Scrambler AX41S and Kenda K-761 could look someway interesting?
Rear tire:
Bates Baja 90 speed rate is T (190km/h) and load index bit higher 73 (vs 67).
Duro HF speed rate is bit lower S (180km/h) and load index that 67.
Kenda K-761 speed rate would be H and load index that 73 (bit higher)
https://www.wheelhousetyres.co.uk/130-90-16-73h-k761-kenda-rear-t-l.html
Bridgestone TW202 speed rate is P (150km/h) and load index 63. Plus wrong tire side: 120/90-16''.
Bridgestone AX41 speed rate is P (150km/h) and same ways wrong tire side (120/90-16'')
Again Kenda K-761 looks quite interesting. Same Bates Baja 90.
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The Kenda 761 is similar to what I run. I have good traction on gravel roads unless I get into deep gravel, then I have to slow down.
The bates baja 90 will also be fine. Slightly more expensive than the Kenda tire. And it also looks slightly more aggressive tread wise so it may do better in loose gravel and dirt. Really depends on your personal preference.
I’ve rode cruisers with street tires on gravel roads. It’s very uncomfortable.
Something I forgot to second, like Burt mentioned check out advrider.com for good info, most people there are nice.
And no, there are no stupid questions. Feel free to ask whatever.
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The Kenda 761 is similar to what I run. I have good traction on gravel roads unless I get into deep gravel, then I have to slow down.
The bates baja 90 will also be fine. Slightly more expensive than the Kenda tire. And it also looks slightly more aggressive tread wise so it may do better in loose gravel and dirt. Really depends on your personal preference.
I’ve rode cruisers with street tires on gravel roads. It’s very uncomfortable.
Something I forgot to second, like Burt mentioned check out advrider.com for good info, most people there are nice.
And no, there are no stupid questions. Feel free to ask whatever.
Well, luckily these are not so expensive (and I can always take them away if my decisions would turned out to be totally wrong).
Oh, now I learned that even as (for example) Bates Baja 90 are ''tubeless'' tires, with spoke wheels they still are recommended to use with inner tube and chafing strips (right kind of; valves are center in Nevada's rims).
I guess that is same with all tires.
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I learned to ride in rural New Zealand on gravel roads like those back in the 60s when there was not the wide variety of tires available so we just rode gravel on normal street tires.
Sure they are not as good as modern off road rubber so you just adapt to whatever you have.
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Well, luckily these are not so expensive (and I can always take them away if my decisions would turned out to be totally wrong).
Oh, now I learned that even as (for example) Bates Baja 90 are ''tubeless'' tires, with spoke wheels they still are recommended to use with inner tube and chafing strips (right kind of; valves are center in Nevada's rims).
I guess that is same with all tires.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7K9U7W_U9gA
This is a good explanation of tire construction. If you run tubes bias ply tires may set your mind more at ease. However, I’ve run tubes in tubeless tires off and on for the last 5 years. I haven’t had any problems. However, that is me and my choice. Your decision is yours alone to make. Everyone has an opinion, that we will gladly share! Ultimately though, your opinion and choice is the best choice for you. 😊
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Before you change tires, make sure there are no legal constraints. Most of the posters here would not face this situation, but in e.g. Germany on most bikes you can’t change tires to an unapproved type for the make and model. Some European countries have this issue, some have no issue at all.
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Before you change tires, make sure there are no legal constraints. Most of the posters here would not face this situation, but in e.g. Germany on most bikes you can’t change tires to an unapproved type for the make and model. Some European countries have this issue, some have no issue at all.
For my understanding (in Finland) you are allowed to change your original motorcycle tire size one step wider or one step narrow.
Meaning: If your original tire is 150/70 ... then you are allowed to install/use 160/60 or 140/80 tires as well.
What comes to other possible marks, labels or certifications, I simply hope that none will sell (in EU area) any illegal tires for motorcycles.
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For my understanding (in Finland) you are allowed to change your original motorcycle tire size one step wider or one step narrow.
Meaning: If your original tire is 150/70 ... then you are allowed to install/use 160/60 or 140/80 tires as well.
What comes to other possible marks, labels or certifications, I simply hope that none will sell (in EU area) any illegal tires for motorcycles.
Looks like that I was not right. That seems to be even tighter here. You are only allowed to install one step wider tire (but not one step more narrow).
Anyway; I'm still in game field, as Kenda K761 (front tire) would just be that (one step wider). Rear tire opposite exactly same size as original (Bates Baja 90 or Kenda K761).
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AF -- here are some comments on Kenda K761 at Adv Rider: https://advrider.com/f/threads/tire-review-of-kenda-k761.709517/
Basically (1) run them at 32-33psi to reduce cupping and (2) be cautious on wet paved or muddy surfaces. Otherwise riders liked them.
Before making a tire and tube purchase, I recommend you contact the manufacturer to verify compatibility with your motorcycle.
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AF -- here are some comments on Kenda K761 at Adv Rider: https://advrider.com/f/threads/tire-review-of-kenda-k761.709517/
Basically (1) run them at 32-33psi to reduce cupping and (2) be cautious on wet paved or muddy surfaces. Otherwise riders liked them.
Before making a tire and tube purchase, I recommend you contact the manufacturer to verify compatibility with your motorcycle.
Took some time to find those tires from Europe. There were seller in UK (but their stocks were empty). I still found all 3 tires from Germany :smiley: Shipping costs (and total costs) would be pretty ok.
Thank's for tip, I'll ask about that from both manufacturers. Lots of time. Riding season will start here just second half of May 2021.
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Oh goody, a tire thread ;-)
Welcome. I'll split the debate though late to the discussion) and say that skill and approach certainly matter more than the tires, but matching the right tire to the use and conditions is also important. I think a dual purpose tire is your best bet, and the value leader in this regard as a well balanced and multi conditioned surfaces is the Shinko 705.
I would center your search on the 'adventure tour or dual purpose' range of tires. Sizing will be the biggest challenge.
I have a V7 Stornello, similar frame/engine/chassis, but different application. I am still at 6K miles on the OEM Golden Tyres, and they have been OK. My next tires will either be the Bridgestone A41, or Shinko 705. I'm about 70/30 street/off road use, and my off road riding will be more on dirt/gravel, so that is my priority too. I'm running tubes, so a strong heavy carcass is important due to less ability to patch while on the road.
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Some of the guys in Kansas and Iowa should chime in. They have a lot of gravel roads in those state. Not unusual for them to do high mileage on gravel at high speeds. :shocked:
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Looks like that I was not right. That seems to be even tighter here. You are only allowed to install one step wider tire (but not one step more narrow). Anyway; I'm still in game field, as Kenda K761 (front tire) would just be that (one step wider). Rear tire opposite exactly same size as original (Bates Baja 90 or Kenda K761).
Good that you checked. The regulations in Germany are beyond just specifying size and certification, they require that the tire brand, model and size be approved for the bike make and model. This means for instance that dual sport tires or anything in that direction are unlikely to be legal on a street bike in Germany or in some other European countries. This rarely causes a problem for the owner until the bike goes for its periodic inspection but is worth understanding.
For US readers this is why when you look at a European tire manufacturers website for tire applications, you find that reasonable tires for the bike are sometimes not listed, for example sport tires of the right size not being listed for fitment on a standard. It’s because they haven’t been submitted for approval for installation on that model in some markets, not because they won’t fit or work.
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Last time I checked only tire shops could change out tires even for motorcycle dealerships. Is that still the same? :shocked:
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Last time I checked only tire shops could change out tires even for motorcycle dealerships. Is that still the same?
That’s pretty much a German-only thing that’s probably not important to the OP in Finland. Not sure where it stands now, as you say it used to be that a BMW factory owned dealer had to take BMW wheels to an approved specialist for tire installation, but in recent years I haven’t seen such a fuss so maybe it’s changed.
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I wanted to be sure to post, as I have zero tire recommendations for you...but love the pictures!
Good luck with the hunt, stay safe! Are you sure you don't live in Vermont? 😉😁
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I run Pirelli MT-60s on my V7 Stone which work well on pavement and unimproved roads but I doubt they'd be available in your size. I found the Shinko 705s worked well on my BMW and come in a variety of sizes.
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Tires will not make much difference.The only way to get comfortable on gravel roads is to practice and wear protective gear.Ride a dirt bike off road until you are comfortable.
Disagree. I’ll never throw on 100% street tires because I do enough of those kinds of gravel/dirt roads per year that even an 80/20 is helpful with at least some aided traction. The more dirt, the more knob. Simply put.
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I miss my Shinko 705s and will definitely consider going back to them after trying out the other tires that I think could work for my usage on the V7. Currently running the MT60 combo that comes factory on the “Rough” variant. Have tested them yet too much to really make judgment, but they are more expensive. Don’t be afraid to mix tire models. I had the 705s in the back and Scorpion Trail II in front for about 6k miles. No handling issues on the street, just a bit more wash-out than preferred on gravel roads with those Scorpion Trail IIs. Just want to make sure that you pair tires together that have similar on-road / off-road percentage.
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Are you sure you don't live in Vermont? 😉😁
Vermont? Is that in USA?
Maybe summers?
(https://i.ibb.co/BtYG6d1/Summer-kopio.jpg)
Probably not winters (same place)?
(https://i.ibb.co/5Kwrt3t/Winter-kopio.jpg)
Deepest time of winter bright days looks like this (''polar nights'').
(https://i.ibb.co/qY6MZmZ/Winter-2-kopio.jpg)
No matter what, ''riding'' is possible also at winter :grin::
(https://i.ibb.co/wwLxWwF/Winter-ride-kopio.jpg)
PS: I have contacted to Kenda's European sale to get a confirmation about those tires (will fit to my bike).
If the answers is ok, I will order those.
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More excellent pics, thanks!
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I miss my Shinko 705s and will definitely consider going back to them after trying out the other tires that I think could work for my usage on the V7. Currently running the MT60 combo that comes factory on the “Rough” variant. Have tested them yet too much to really make judgment, but they are more expensive. Don’t be afraid to mix tire models. I had the z705s in the back and Scorpiod Trail II in front for about 6k miles. No handling issues on the street, just a bit more wash-out than preferred on gravel roads with those Scorpion Trail IIs. Just want to make sure that you pair tires together that have similar on-road / off-road percentage.
Dirk,
Thanks for this. What did you like about the 705's over the MT60?
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Dirk,
Thanks for this. What did you like about the 705's over the MT60?
Mostly comes down to cost and performance. Again, I haven’t truly tested the MT60s as much as I have the 705 (rear only), nor have a tried all the tires I’m looking to try, so my thoughts still require some field time to solidify. The 705 looks like a true 80/20, maybe even more like a 70/30. The rubber is soft, and seemed a little easier to install. Works well on the highway. I trusted it in the rain, the front (Scorpion Trail II), not as much confidence.
I like the look of the MT60; I’m curious to see if the bigger blocks on the 705 end up doing better off-road as I suspect they might, but maybe not.
L
Old Shinko 705 on the left (more highway miles than I preferred) and new MT60 on the right:
(https://i.ibb.co/MGWrNyq/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MGWrNyq)
For gravel and forest roads like what the OP is looking at, the MT60 might have the right tread design.
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For gravel and forest roads like what the OP is looking at, the MT60 might have the right tread design.
MT 60? Did you mean Pirelli MT60 RS 130/90 B16 M/C 67H? Yes, there seemed to be one in right size 130/90-16 ... but if I'm correct that is for front tire? Not for rear tire (which I would need/look)?
Plus there are not that in size 100/90-18'' (or 110/80-18'' either).
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They don't make an MT60RS (radial) for the V7's size as well (130/80 17"), but they do have the original MT60 (bias-ply), and that's what I use in the back. So yeah - the radial in the front, bias in the back (crickets).
Regarding the Nevada's sizes, I do see that Pirelli has the 130/80 16 MT60 RS listed as front only. However, both front and rear tread sizes are so similar, if not the exact same, that I wonder why it WOULDN'T work in the back (flipping the tire around). But I admit to not having experience with tires to know all the details. Maybe it's worth asking Pirelli for their opinion?
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They don't make an MT60RS (radial) for the V7's size as well (130/80 17"), but they do have the original MT60 (bias-ply), and that's what I use in the back. So yeah - the radial in the front, bias in the back (crickets).
Regarding the Nevada's sizes, I do see that Pirelli has the 130/80 16 MT60 RS listed as front only. However, both front and rear tread sizes are so similar, if not the exact same, that I wonder why it WOULDN'T work in the back (flipping the tire around). But I admit to not having experience with tires to know all the details. Maybe it's worth asking Pirelli for their opinion?
:shocked: Is it allowed to install front tire to rear :huh:?
Front tires are more round (profile), or am I mistaken? If you install front tire to rear wheel => would it be safe?
It would wear faster, or? Meaning here Pirelli MT60 RS 130/90 B16 M/C 67H TL Fr
(https://www.jussinmaki.net/image_view.php?name=0/listaus_PIRELLIMT60RS13090B16MC_53-2925100_1.jpg)
Anyway ... for front there would be this too (as one option).
AVON AV53 TRAILRIDER 110/80 R18 58V
(https://cdn.grip500.com/assets/img/tyre/big_grip/968182.jpg)
Add: There would be PIRELLI MT 60 RS 110/80 R18 58H front tire.
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[quote :shocked: Is it allowed to install front tire to rear :huh:?
Sometimes it’s fine, yes. Especially fine if the tire says it’s fine (often like “if mounting on rear wheel, turn tire so arrow points the other way”)
But, if it’s a front-only tire, then that’s where I’d be cautious and ask.
Front tires are more round (profile), or am I mistaken?
To a degree, yes, because they’re often slimmer. But keep in mind that a bias-ply tire will also have a different profile to a radial-equivalent due to construction.
It would wear faster, or?
Yeah, I imagine a front tire being used in the back would wear faster due to the force of the bike’s weight pushing the tire into the ground more.
Again, I’d email Pirelli, give them your model and wheel sizes, and see what they would say—and if not, make sure to get the ‘why not’ so you and I can be all the more wiser.
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Again, I’d email Pirelli, give them your model and wheel sizes, and see what they would say
Done, here locally.
Load index is the same (67). Same goes with speed rate (H). But I would assume front tires are designed for different forces than rear tires? Interesting hear what they will say.
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Mostly comes down to cost and performance. Again, I haven’t truly tested the MT60s as much as I have the 705 (rear only), nor have a tried all the tires I’m looking to try, so my thoughts still require some field time to solidify. The 705 looks like a true 80/20, maybe even more like a 70/30. The rubber is soft, and seemed a little easier to install. Works well on the highway. I trusted it in the rain, the front (Scorpion Trail II), not as much confidence.
I like the look of the MT60; I’m curious to see if the bigger blocks on the 705 end up doing better off-road as I suspect they might, but maybe not.
L
Old Shinko 705 on the left (more highway miles than I preferred) and new MT60 on the right:
(https://i.ibb.co/MGWrNyq/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MGWrNyq)
For gravel and forest roads like what the OP is looking at, the MT60 might have the right tread design.
I've only heard good things about the Shinko 705's, and is probably what I will go with. I hesitate only because of the issues and garbage they put out back some years ago. Shinko, Chensing, etc. Cheap and garbage. But it seems they must have turned things around.
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Done, here locally.
Load index is the same (67). Same goes with speed rate (H). But I would assume front tires are designed for different forces than rear tires? Interesting hear what they will say.
It would appear in some cases it’s only which way the tire tread orientates. I saw this when I removed my rear tire just now. Tire size is 130/80/17.
(https://i.ibb.co/yd096RN/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yd096RN)
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It would appear in some cases it’s only which way the tire tread orientates. I saw this when I removed my rear tire just now. Tire size is 130/80/17.
(https://i.ibb.co/yd096RN/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yd096RN)
Right, and often the manufacturer will note on the tire that one can simply flip the tire around if they want to use it on the other wheel. But the fact that Pirelli DIDN’T note this as an option on that 130/80-16 makes me wonder if the construction is perhaps indeed unique enough to warrant an aversion for flipping to the other side. It could be they didn’t think to allow it. Could be they never tested it, or perhaps they may think that for legal matters, it may not be wise to officially allow for it..or, could be it straight up isn’t wise due to carcass construction.
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For gravel / pavement I had these on my KLR650, I got about 5000Km on them with about 2/3 of that gravel / rock crush road surface. They are a very good tire in my opinion.
https://fortnine.ca/en/michelin-anakee-wild-front-tire
Northern Scandinavian roads look a lot like northern Canadian roads but your roads look to be better maintained :thumb:
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Ok, I pulled the trigger and went to buy those Kenda K761 tires to front and rear.
I never got any answer from Pirell ... except that their Finland's people informed me quickly that they had sent my question further in their organization.
I guess nobody wanted to take responsible (like some wrote earlier).
I also faced bit difficulties to find a seller (those Kenda tires). There were many in USA (who knew their businesses), but shipping costs would have been about the same as value/price of tires plus add that 26% custom taxis. Yes, I also find some sellers via Ebay.de or Amatzon.de (from Germany), but those people seemed to know very little about their tires/products. And I find some real sellers but those did not have those specified sizes (I wanted) available/in their stock.
Finally I found one bigger motorcycle tire seller in UK. They themselves did not ship to Finland but person from there gave me contact information to another seller (London) who would do that for me. And from there I finally bought both tires. Prices were fine/in line incl. shipping charge fine too, plus doing that now (before 1.1.2021) ... I will not need pay any tax/custom costs either :azn:.
https://www.kenda-moto.co.uk/k761/ (https://www.kenda-moto.co.uk/k761/)
So to front I will get that: 110/80-18 M/C 58H TL (original size in Nevada is 100/90-18 ... I hope that will fit well)
And rear tire that: 130/90 -16 M/C 73H reinf. TL (same size as original in Nevada)
Front tire is actually ''universal'' ... could be used both front and rear ... but at least seller said it is just fine as used in front.
Both of those Kenda tires are also tubeless but as my bike has spoke wheel, the seller recommended to use them with tubes. So I also bough inner tubes (Continental) and 'rim tape' chafing strips. Luckily those were not expensive.
As all now comes from one and same seller ... I probably saved a bit via possible shipping costs.
Time will tell how those will feel. I will go to install them right after I have taken bike from winter sleep (somewhere 2. half of May 2021). I will let you know my opinion. And thank you all who participated in this thread .
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Happy you got to a solution (and hopefully more will open up in the future if Pirelli ever responds).
One note on the tubes - make sure you get the appropriate tubes for the type of tire—bias or radial. I didn’t realize myself that there were differences, but I heard on the Adventure Rider Radio that temperatures and expansion play a role, so you want to match them (might be something that everyone else but me already knows).
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Happy you got to a solution (and hopefully more will open up in the future if Pirelli ever responds).
One note on the tubes - make sure you get the appropriate tubes for the type of tire—bias or radial. I didn’t realize myself that there were differences, but I heard on the Adventure Rider Radio that temperatures and expansion play a role, so you want to match them (might be something that everyone else but me already knows).
Oh, I do not know anything else than those tubes will be Continental. Isn't that known car tires manufacturer? Anyway, they have already shipped my tires ... but I will ask/check this. I hope they noticed this matter as I let them to choose me those tubes :sad:.
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Tires are here:
(https://i.ibb.co/Zc00nVd/IMG-0891-kopio.jpg)
Oh, I just wish this winter would be over very soon.
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Tires are here:
(https://i.ibb.co/Zc00nVd/IMG-0891-kopio.jpg)
Oh, I just wish this winter would be over very soon.
Look forward to hearing your impressions. I'm still on the fence on what I will put on my V7 Stornello.
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Tires are here:
(https://i.ibb.co/Zc00nVd/IMG-0891-kopio.jpg)
Oh, I just wish this winter would be over very soon.
:thumb:
But don't you have snowmobiles? :grin:
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:thumb:
But don't you have snowmobiles? :grin:
Nope, but I have rode those twice.
No ''gears''. Do not drop/fall/slide your feet from snowmobile ... it might hit/touch on the snow/land.