Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dave Swanson on November 21, 2020, 04:19:40 PM
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For those that don't venture over to the restoration area, I am restoring a 1980 T3 California. My goal for the wheels will be to have them looking as new as possible. Looking brand new is not necessary, but fairly close to it is the goal.
The rear wheel was coated in a layer of oily dirt and actually cleaned up pretty decent. It will not require a lot of polishing to look presentable.
The front wheel on the other hand is pretty bad! 40 years of brake dust left to corrode the rim has taken a toll. The picture below is after an aggressive scrub in my solvent tank.
Has anyone been able to clean up and polish a rim this bad?
(https://i.postimg.cc/RCWDzt1G/IMG-7686.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yjw36hsm)
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Is it pitted or just crusty.
If it’s pitted making it look new or newish will take a tremendous amount of effort. If it just crusty and only light putting some time, effort and beers will get it back in shape.
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Flitz polish/cleaner on a microfiber ball mounted in a drill and have at it. The microfiber ball will nock out the big spots and good old fashion finger and elbow grease with more Flitz and a microfiber cloth will do a lot more. Having the spokes out is a tremendous help. It my not ever look 'new' but it should clean up considerably. The 'how newish' factor is strictly up to how much effort you're willing to put into the task.
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I would say yes . Tin foil and elbow grease. Can't wait to see where you get with it.
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It's aluminum right? Provided there is no serious rot.
For the best mirror finish, sand paper or sanding drum or dremel flap wheel and a polishing buff/wheel.
Not as effective for a mirror. There are sanding buffs/wheels. They look like dremel polishing buffs/wheels, but are abrasive. They come in different grits up to about 800 IIRR. 800 will not make a mirror, but will give a nice clean aluminum look. If you go this route, start at about 100 grit +/-. You can always follow up with a polishing buff if you want a mirror.
There are also dremel wire wheels. They would get rid of the nasty, but can leave scratches. With care they make for quick work.
Tom
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Those don't look too bad.
Unless there are real deep scratches or gouges to resolve, I only use 1500 wet/dry, then 2000 grit wet/dry with lots of kerosene, paint thinner or similar for solvent to keep the paper clean. Fresh paper cuts great. Sometimes the Used paper is just right. Simple sanding block(s) will save your fingertips and help maintain crisp detail that's lost with power polishing/sanding. Finish with paste or cream metal polish of your choice. They'll look fantastic.
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Without *really* looking/feeling, I'd say.. not really. I've seen your work and your standards. <shrug>
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Of course it can be saved. Take it to church, get it to confess it's sins, and don't forget to make it tithe.
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I don't think I would invest the effort needed to get a finish that won't be great.
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My recipe - Wet sand 1000 grit then 1500 grit. finish off with mothers polish.
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Lots of good suggestions. I will give it the college try before throwing in the towel.
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Doesn't look like corrosion to me, in which case it should be possible to clean off and then only deal with staining rather than pitting. The trick is finding out what will remove it. I'd maybe try soda blasting first. Then there's aluminum brightener.
But I could be wrong and it is corrosion.
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Doesn't look too bad unless there's corrosion on the inside. I'd go at it with OOOO ( super fine) steel wool and some good quality metal polish. Borrani rims are pretty soft so polish quite easily. I'd hesitate to use power tools like a Dremel unless trying to polish a gouge or scratch. Good luck and report back with results!
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Can you steel wool a spot, then post a pic / ask us the question again? :grin:
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Of course it can be saved. Take it to church, get it to confess it's sins, and don't forget to make it tithe.
And once it's all back together again you can take it back to church again for it's first service.....
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I don’t know anything about this topic, but if I was doing it myself ?
I’d mount it on a round backboard and spin it, so I could hold the abrading medium still and thereby slash the time and effort involved.
Also I’d imagine you’d achieve a more even finish.
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I would try an aluminum cleaner product first. I use something from NAPA that contains oxalic acid, also known as wood bleach. Do some research before committing to abrasives. One of the restoration guys should be along soon with better info.
Brian
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To make as near to new in appearance as possible?
My vote would be to replace, but it depends on how you value your time and value of satisfaction in accomplishment.
What is value of a fairly common and good condition Borrani rim that will only take an hour of same effort ($100 or less?) vs several hours of labor and the expense of consumables?
If it was a hard to replace vintage rim or i it was just to make it 'presentable', I'd go for the restoration.
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I would try an aluminum cleaner product first. I use something from NAPA that contains oxalic acid, also known as wood bleach. Do some research before committing to abrasives. One of the restoration guys should be along soon with better info.
Brian
Research aluminum cleaners and the finishes they produce before you dive in feet first. Product like NAPA aluminum brightener do work well but do not expect to spray it on, hose it off and have a mirror finish,
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To make as near to new in appearance as possible?
My vote would be to replace, but it depends on how you value your time and value of satisfaction in accomplishment.
What is value of a fairly common and good condition Borrani rim that will only take an hour of same effort ($100 or less?) vs several hours of labor and the expense of consumables?
If it was a hard to replace vintage rim or i it was just to make it 'presentable', I'd go for the restoration.
That's no fun. Gotta try before you buy. There have been lots of instances where I spent more time and money refurbishing or making my own parts when it would have been easier, cheaper and faster to just buy new.
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I am making a trip to the hardware store this morning and plan to go down fighting.
The lazy, and perhaps more practical side of my brain is fantasizing about just spiffing up the hubs, and sending them to off Buchanan to have new Borranis laced up. But the parsimonious side is rebelling against such a decadent approach. :grin: I know my hands would be in favor of the Buchanan approach as they suffer from some arthritis pain. The thought of 2 perfectly built and new looking wheels showing up via UPS is a nice fantasy. Might as well send Buchanan the new rubber and have them mounted and balanced while I am dreaming.
FYI. New Borrani rims are $315 each, spoke kits are $135 each, and build labor is $112 each. For a grand total of $562 per wheel. :cheesy: If I went with Buchanan I wouldn't want to have one new looking wheel and one not so new.
And yes I know there are Chinese Borrani knock offs, but that will never happen.
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I have also used boat hull cleaner(oxalic acid) with great results for getting brake dust off aluminum car wheels. Your rim looks like it has some pitting but until the brake dust is off it's hard to tell how bad it is. I believe most hardware stores sell the oxalic acid and that is where I would start first.
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Any wetting treatment (acidic or basic) will not level the surface to facilitate making it shine. Any blasting treatment, even gentle soda blasting, will not level the surface either. Any existing pits will have the edges/corners eaten away or rounded off or be made deeper-if not both- by either method and the rim will be junk. Steel wool is a haphazard abrasive, in terms of cut and surface leveling. Power tools. Nope. After doing these things, the best next step is to spray the part with some satin clear rattle can and move on. That's how we do it quick & cheap at the shop on projects that don't matter.
Well lubricated Wet/dry paper like Turin and I mentioned will produce the best surface. If there are fine (vertical) pits, they will onLy be made more shallow instead of wider and deeper like wetting and blasting. This is the big detriment of wetting treatments and blasting when trying to produce or recover a polished surface. Using a sanding block of some manner to keep the paper flat on the surface will not increase the diameter of the pits. Instead, they will be made smaller in diameter and more shallow. Those wide dark stains disappear fast. Try a small spot and see before committing to the job.
I've owned bought sold and cleaned a lot of Borrani, Akront, San Remo, DID Takesago and a few Dunlop rims. I keep a small ream of both 1500 & 2000 paper and use it a lot. The rim may be too badly pitted to look "perfect", but I've cleaned many rims in such condition to very nice/excellent. Husqvarna dirt bikes normally had WM3 18 X 36 Akronts drilled for a full width big drum hub on the rear- a perfect fit for Ducati single when Borranis aren't available. The ones I bought almost always looked like your rim. Ugly meant cheap. When I sold my bikes, I had at least 2 dozen spare sets of flanged rims to sell. At least a third had been cheap ugly rims but they weren't any more.
Good luck.
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After working my fingers stiff for a few hours today this is the result. It does not look new, but I will be happy to use it as is!
Before.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RCWDzt1G/IMG_7686.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yjw36hsm)
After.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wTbTKyCc/IMG_7688.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F73Q3Rs7)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx2QmQq0/IMG-7693.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Bj3fg0XN)
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Very cool.
Sadly, I bet the WG price point on ugly borrani rims just experienced a market adjustment....
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Dave that doesn’t look too bad at all. So how/what did you do?
Mark
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Dave that doesn’t look too bad at all. So how/what did you do?
Mark
1500 grit wetted with WD40 followed by 2000, then polishing compound. All by hand. I cut off a hunk of sponge as a backing to the paper to take some abuse off the fingertips.
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Wheels starting to shape up very nicely. Looks great. Some polishing compound, felt wheel and rotary tool would be the next step to really making it shine.
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:thumb:
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Have to ask. Would vapor blasting have worked? (I know nothing about the process... educate me.) My 30 year old R100GS needs the rims cleaned up, but I don't want to dismantle them. There's only a handful of folks that know how to lace the Akront rims on these bikes, so I'm wondering if I could vapor blast them on the bike with the tires on(?) They are in much better condition than the ones Dave is restoring ..... not pitted, simply discolored in places. Sort of dull in appearance.
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Have to ask. Would vapor blasting have worked? (I know nothing about the process... educate me.) My 30 year old R100GS needs the rims cleaned up, but I don't want to dismantle them. There's only a handful of folks that know how to lace the Akront rims on these bikes, so I'm wondering if I could vapor blast them on the bike with the tires on(?) They are in much better condition than the ones Dave is restoring ..... not pitted, simply discolored in places. Sort of dull in appearance.
Media blasting (no matter the media ice, sand, walnut hulls etc.) will clean the wheel of dirt and debris but will not make it shine. If you want it shine you have to polished.
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wow, never underestimate determination.Nice work Dave.
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What about if there is peeling?
I have a rear, I can get photos, but the finish appears to be peeling off. Saveable? Or should I look into buying a new rear wheel?
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Very very nice :thumb:
Tom
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What about if there is peeling?
I have a rear, I can get photos, but the finish appears to be peeling off. Saveable? Or should I look into buying a new rear wheel?
It sounds like you may have one of the chrome plated alloy tubeless rims for an EV. Correct?
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Buggerising around like that, not only saves you a lot of money and gives satisfaction..
But you are now way up the scale as a go to guy for similar pursuits by others and also as an aside, you have greatly added to the collective knowlege pool.
Any bozo can go and shell out on new rims and pay through the nose to end up with shiny wheels, but you have a lot of thought and effort in those, you will love them more as a consequence.
Very well done I say...! :bow: :thumb:
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That looks very good to me!
slightly adrift:
Here is a question for someone,
Is there a 19" rim that would fit a Guzzi rear hub?
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That looks very good to me!
slightly adrift:
Here is a question for someone,
Is there a 19" rim that would fit a Guzzi rear hub?
It’s a matter of the number of spokes.
Behr or Excell have a great range, however if you are going blind nipples with o rings, then spoke angle is critical..
Notwithstanding that, you can lace anything up..
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The rear rim went faster. I was able to start with 2000 grit and then polishing compound. I was able to finish it while listening to disc 2 of the Allman Brothers at Filmore East which is over 1 hour long. Mountain Jam being one of the best songs to listen to while polishing known to man. :cheesy:
I still have 80 spokes and nipples to polish, but the befores and afters are pretty dramatic.
As with most of my restorations the level I aim for is what a very well cared for machine might look like after 40 years or more, rather than trying for the "new" look. I admire those that can accomplish the new look level, but I never seem to have the patience to take it to that level.
Rear before.
(https://i.postimg.cc/664XnKPw/IMG-7309.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nMxgfyZw)
Rear after.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FRVPkT7Q/IMG-E7697.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygWhwXmf)
Front before.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8cvgSdvs/IMG-7308.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRqPGrQL)
Front after.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx2QmQq0/IMG_7693.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Bj3fg0XN)
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It sounds like you may have one of the chrome plated alloy tubeless rims for an EV. Correct?
Nah it's the spoked wheels for a jackal
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Kind of a dramatic change now that it is laced up! Spoke are loosely assembled. I need to install the bearing hubs before I can start any serious truing.
Each spoke and nipple was polished with my buffing wheel. The nastiest wheel I have ever worked on.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8cvgSdvs/IMG-7308.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRqPGrQL)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KYCBkNv8/IMG-E7717.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Kbmjp9D)
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Really nice Dave - so there looks like new hope for mine.
Mark
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I reckon the inherent patina of a refurbished wheel, is superior in a lot of ways to new rims... :bow: :thumb:
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Great job!
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I reckon the inherent patina of a refurbished wheel, is superior in a lot of ways to new rims... :bow: :thumb:
Huzo has a good point. I have rebuilt a couple of bikes and have learnt to consider what the bike will be used for and the big picture of a finished bike. If the bike is to be ridden you don't need show finish. That does not mean you accept second best but perfection takes a lot to achieve and will not last.
The second point is the bike should be uniformly finished. So if you put brand new wheels and show finish paint job, you should aim to do everything to that standard. If you go for the really well looked after look you can get away with a bit more. In the end it is what the owner likes.
Steve
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Huzo has a good point. I have rebuilt a couple of bikes and have learnt to consider what the bike will be used for and the big picture of a finished bike. If the bike is to be ridden you don't need show finish. That does not mean you accept second best but perfection takes a lot to achieve and will not last.
The second point is the bike should be uniformly finished. So if you put brand new wheels and show finish paint job, you should aim to do everything to that standard. If you go for the really well looked after look you can get away with a bit more. In the end it is what the owner likes.
Steve
I believe the wheels are brought up to a high enough standard that they will not unduly clash with the freshly painted and plated parts. It is impossible to make rims with 112,000 miles on them look completely new, but they look quite good. I will try my best for this bike to not end up a hangar queen. My plan is to ride it quite a bit.
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Wow Dave! You've made a huge difference :grin: :bow: Congratulations :thumb: :grin:
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I did the same with my 70 ambo wheels, it's what we do during the winter in the north country.