Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: andyals on January 22, 2021, 12:16:47 PM
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Seems to me that the 850 displacement of the V7 presents an absolutely ideal opportunity to bring out a full on homage tribute to the original Lemans.
I was convinced that this was partial reasoning behind making it an 850 but now that we are at their 100th anniversary with no sign of it, I must concede that sadly I was wrong.
But why don't they do it.
In fact at a bike meet a few years ago I saw a V7 that someone had done this to with authentic paint job and clip on bars and it looked stunning.
Such minimal work for a show stopper.
Literally almost everyone who walked past it stopped to look.
Triumph prove it works with their hugely successful Bonneville and I'm sure Guzzi must be aware of the iconic status of the original Lemans so why not capitalise on it.
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Such a classic...My old 1983 850 Le Mans-III. :smiley: :cool: :thumb:
If Guzzi made an 850 Le Mans for 2021...it needs to look similar to this, (IMHO) :thumb: :cool:
(https://i.ibb.co/6NNdHtW/83-Le-Mans-III.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6NNdHtW)
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Seems to me that the 850 displacement of the V7 presents an absolutely ideal opportunity to bring out a full on homage tribute to the original Lemans.
I was convinced that this was partial reasoning behind making it an 850 but now that we are at their 100th anniversary with no sign of it, I must concede that sadly I was wrong.
But why don't they do it.
In fact at a bike meet a few years ago I saw a V7 that someone had done this to with authentic paint job and clip on bars and it looked stunning.
Such minimal work for a show stopper.
Literally almost everyone who walked past it stopped to look.
Triumph prove it works with their hugely successful Bonneville and I'm sure Guzzi must be aware of the iconic status of the original Lemans so why not capitalise on it.
They would be fools to not pursue this direction. Perhaps as the Anniversary approaches? Big reveal? They have the parts in house to do this.
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Such a classic...My old 1983 850 Le Mans-III. :smiley: :cool: :thumb:
If Guzzi made an 850 Le Mans for 2021...it needs to look similar to this, (IMHO) :thumb: :cool:
(https://i.ibb.co/6NNdHtW/83-Le-Mans-III.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6NNdHtW)
I found this on this very forum.
I think its a photo shop illustration but I'd buy this in an instant.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1zwwrbSP/guzziv7trofeo.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Come on fellas! Do you really think Guzzi would show the New Halo bike now, 8 months before the big party?
They would be nuts not to have something very cool in the works, but it would be ant-climactic to reveal it now. Have patients young grasshoppers.
Of course they could have nothing of the kind in the works, but that's seems highly unlikely even for a company like Piaggio.
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I found this on this very forum.
I think its a photo shop illustration but I'd buy this in an instant.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1zwwrbSP/guzziv7trofeo.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I agree...and that is exactly what I am talking about!! :thumb: :cool: :wink:
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I found this on this very forum.
I think its a photo shop illustration but I'd buy this in an instant.
Ain’t no photoshop, but a kit. Go buy it!
https://www.motoguzzi.com/pt_PT/Fast-Endurance/the-motorbike/ (https://www.motoguzzi.com/pt_PT/Fast-Endurance/the-motorbike/)
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Seems to me that the 850 displacement of the V7 presents an absolutely ideal opportunity to bring out a full on homage tribute to the original Lemans...
In fact at a bike meet a few years ago I saw a V7 that someone had done this to with authentic paint job and clip on bars and it looked stunning...
Literally almost everyone who walked past it stopped to look...
Does Moto Guzzi want to make a beautiful bike I would stop to look at? Or does Moto Guzzi want to make a bike I would buy to ride? They are not the same bike. For my hard earned dollars performance and comfort always win out over looks.
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:whip2:
I found this on this very forum.
I think its a photo shop illustration but I'd buy this in an instant.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1zwwrbSP/guzziv7trofeo.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Not much different than mine. I'd feel like I have two of the same.
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I say no to a paper Tiger LeMans
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I say no to a paper Tiger LeMans
:rolleyes:
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I say no to a paper Tiger LeMans
Don’t let the misty memories of the past overcome you.
It would hand an original one it’s own arse.
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Seems to me that the 850 displacement of the V7 presents an absolutely ideal opportunity to bring out a full on homage tribute to the original Lemans.
But why don't they do it.
Dunno mate, but maybe the brains trust in the “Why won’t they do it” post will explain all.
I just bumped it for you.
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Have patients young grasshoppers.
Don’t they have some in the infirmary ?
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Triumph prove it works with their hugely successful Bonneville and I'm sure Guzzi must be aware of the iconic status of the original Lemans so why not capitalise on it.
Because Piaggio still has just the slightest morsel of good taste remaining, even after whoring Guzzi out with the small block (not a) V7 series? That would be one good reason to avoid making another retro cartoon bike :wink:
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Because Piaggio still has just the slightest morsel of good taste remaining, even after whoring Guzzi out with the small block (not a) V7 series? That would be one good reason to avoid making another retro cartoon bike :wink:
Well, build it with proper componentry and price it accordingly.
I’ve spent 10 grand on my V85 since I bought it. If Guzzi had built it in the guise it is now, it would owe me a lot less than it currently does.
Ohlins front end, twin front discs would be a start.
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Don’t let the misty memories of the past overcome you.
It would hand an original one it’s own arse.
I don't doubt it. IMO it should be at least as quick as the last guzzi to wear the LeMans badge.
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That's enough fellas .
Dusty
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Does Moto Guzzi want to make a beautiful bike I would stop to look at? Or does Moto Guzzi want to make a bike I would buy to ride?
BOTH
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Smallblock LeMans? uhm, no.
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Smallblock LeMans? uhm, no.
Original Lemans
Max power 73bhp @ 7,700rpm
Max Torque 56ft lb @ 6,600rpm
Dry weight 215kg
New V85TT
Max Power 79bhp @ 7,750 rpm
Max Torque 59ft lb @ 5000 rpm
Dry weight 208kg
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Original Lemans
Max power 73bhp @ 7,700rpm
Max Torque 56ft lb @ 6,600rpm
Dry weight 215kg
New V85TT
Max Power 79bhp @ 7,750 rpm
Max Torque 59ft lb @ 5000 rpm
Dry weight 208kg
:thumb:
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Original Lemans
Max power 73bhp @ 7,700rpm
Max Torque 56ft lb @ 6,600rpm
Dry weight 215kg
New V85TT
Max Power 79bhp @ 7,750 rpm
Max Torque 59ft lb @ 5000 rpm
Dry weight 208kg
Motorcyclespecs.za shows the original Le Mans getting 80 hp.
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Just to be fair, those #'s don't mean poop. If I FI my LM3, I'll race that 850, even w/my 36mm PHF's. I guarantee you'll loose your bottom end chasing me.
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Just to be fair, those #'s don't mean poop. If I FI my LM3, I'll race that 850, even w/my 36mm PHF's. I guarantee you'll loose your bottom end chasing me.
To be fair those numbers mean a lot because they prove that the current 850 engine is pretty much on par with the early Lemans.
Put it in a more sporting format with decent suspension with less weight and I doubt there's much much in it.
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Original Lemans
Max power 73bhp @ 7,700rpm
Max Torque 56ft lb @ 6,600rpm
Dry weight 215kg
New V85TT
Max Power 79bhp @ 7,750 rpm
Max Torque 59ft lb @ 5000 rpm
Dry weight 208kg
I've never ridden an original LeMans. However, I own a V11 and ridden the V85TT.
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Just to be fair, those #'s don't mean poop. If I FI my LM3, I'll race that 850, even w/my 36mm PHF's. I guarantee you'll loose your bottom end chasing me.
Yes Steve accept for one glaring detail..
You haven’t FI’d your LM3 and God (and you) only knows what wizardry you have performed on your #3 and do you expect to be able to operate your bike at V85 beating levels long enough to see the new one blow up ?
I THINK the point was/is, that although we all remember how good our lives were back when the first Le Mans hit the showroom floors, going back now and riding one in today’s world is like spending the night with your first girlfriend again..
You have to overlook a fair few things..(and so does she..) :wink:
I gave my Mk2 the arse because although it was ok by today’s standards, it had no brakes, no suspension, no power and steered like the Exxon Valdez...again, other than that it was really good.
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Here, with a belly spoiler:
https://www.motoguzzi.com/en_EN/fast-endurance/
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It's about in line w/a current 450. Aprillia 450/550 V had 80 along w/most currant 450's
The Ape V4 sideways w/driveshaft would be nicely rebadged for the next LeMans. It has to be faster than V11 LeMans, that would be progression instead of insult.
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One direction I thought was good for a new/old lemans is this one:
http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/pictures/moto-guzzi-le-mans-850/#.YA4LNKQ8IlQ (http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/pictures/moto-guzzi-le-mans-850/#.YA4LNKQ8IlQ)
https://www.facebook.com/HOADenDuvel/videos/209992743207482/ (https://www.facebook.com/HOADenDuvel/videos/209992743207482/)
Then one of our own WG-ista here doing a 1400 conversion to an MKIV SE. Ultimately I think a fat and beefy LM1000 remake would be what I'd like to see, duck tail and all.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=108967.0 (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=108967.0)
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Yes Steve accept for one glaring detail..
You haven’t FI’d your LM3 and God (and you) only knows what wizardry you have performed on your #3 and do you expect to be able to operate your bike at V85 beating levels long enough to see the new one blow up ?
I THINK the point was/is, that although we all remember how good our lives were back when the first Le Mans hit the showroom floors, going back now and riding one in today’s world is like spending the night with your first girlfriend again..
You have to overlook a fair few things..(and so does she..) :wink:
I gave my Mk2 the arse because although it was ok by today’s standards, it had no brakes, no suspension, no power and steered like the Exxon Valdez...again, other than that it was really good.
Oh Man thats some funny Sh--t there. And probably very true. :grin:
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The thing is that I have 95 Sport suspension, wheels, brakes on it and a new Jackel block for FI. All I need is $ to finish it.
The older I get the faster I was syndrome.
(https://i.ibb.co/fqynyZB/1010191035-00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fqynyZB)
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Not for nothing but some of you guys take this shit way too seriously. An insult? Yeah whatever.
Also I definitely think a lot of this is silly grass is greener syndrome. The standards for hp measurement (if even used by an Italian company) were different. I bet if you took the original side-by-side with a V7III or definitely the upcoming new V7 you would find a very competitive bike in the new version.
Who gives a shit if it isn't some "fire breathing" monster. If you want THAT, buy it.
Fact is my wife's little bike (696) is still an air-cooled 2V twin that will hand a lot of bigger bikes their asses. But that's not why she (we?) like it. At the end of the day the look, feel, and function combine to the right package.
I hope they abandon the "Racer" moniker and go with a Neuvo LeMans completing the package with the looks and dual discs, even if it is just to annoy you grumpy old farts.
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I found this on this very forum.
I think its a photo shop illustration but I'd buy this in an instant.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1zwwrbSP/guzziv7trofeo.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
You can buy this right now... This is a v7 built by Guareschi Moto for the 'Fast Endurance' v7 race series. all the parts are available as a kit. Of course they dont have it for the new 850 V7 yet
https://www.guareschimoto.it/ (https://www.guareschimoto.it/)
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You can buy this right now... This is a v7 built by Guareschi Moto for the 'Fast Endurance' v7 race series. all the parts are available as a kit. Of course they dont have it for the new 850 V7 yet
https://www.guareschimoto.it/ (https://www.guareschimoto.it/)
Nice website. I really like this scrambler build. https://www.guareschimoto.it/portfolio-articoli/la-v7-secondo-guareschi/
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Nice website. I really like this scrambler build. https://www.guareschimoto.it/portfolio-articoli/la-v7-secondo-guareschi/
they are a great follow on Instagram, not many folks here who are users of insta tho
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they are a great follow on Instagram, not many folks here who are users of insta tho
Yeah, I tried to sign up on instagram to follow Itchy Boots, and now I get emails from there wanting me to follow others instead of emails telling me she posted something new. I'm guessing a lot of these sites are geared towards smartphone users.
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Not for nothing but some of you guys take this shit way too seriously. An insult? Yeah whatever.
Also I definitely think a lot of this is silly grass is greener syndrome. The standards for hp measurement (if even used by an Italian company) were different. I bet if you took the original side-by-side with a V7III or definitely the upcoming new V7 you would find a very competitive bike in the new version.
Who gives a shit if it isn't some "fire breathing" monster. If you want THAT, buy it.
Fact is my wife's little bike (696) is still an air-cooled 2V twin that will hand a lot of bigger bikes their asses. But that's not why she (we?) like it. At the end of the day the look, feel, and function combine to the right package.
I hope they abandon the "Racer" moniker and go with a Neuvo LeMans completing the package with the looks and dual discs, even if it is just to annoy you grumpy old farts.
Back in 1996 I owned a Kawasaki ZZR1100 and fancied myself as being pretty quick on that bike.
That was until one day I was pressing on through some country lanes overtaking everything as usual, when I spotted a bike closing in on me fast from behind.
When I saw the barn door fairing my pride forced me to go quicker because no way was that old thing getting anywhere near me.
But it was no good.
I could not shake this guy off and then in a split second he took me while I was braking for a right hand bend in an absolutely beautifully executed text book overtake.
Just to add insult to injury, after he got passed he gave me a big wave and before I knew it he was a spec on the distance. .
The bike was either a BMW R100RT or 80RT.
He was going to quick for me to make out anything but the outline and year of the bike.
That was my down to earth moment, and an incredibly humbling experience.
I may have had the faster bike but that didn't mean a thing against a much better rider.
In anything other than a straight line it's a riders skill that counts, not the bike.
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Back in 1996 I owned a Kawasaki ZZR1100 and fancied myself as being pretty quick on that bike.
That was until one day I was pressing on through some country lanes overtaking everything as usual, when I spotted a bike closing in on me fast from behind.
When I saw the barn door fairing my pride forced me to go quicker because no way was that old thing getting anywhere near me.
But it was no good.
I could not shake this guy off and then in a split second he took me while I was braking for a right hand bend in an absolutely beautifully executed text book overtake.
Just to add insult to injury, after he got passed he gave me a big wave and before I knew it he was a spec on the distance. .
The bike was either a BMW R100RT or 80RT.
He was going to quick for me to make out anything but the outline and year of the bike.
That was my down to earth moment, and an incredibly humbling experience.
I may have had the faster bike but that didn't mean a thing against a much better rider.
In anything other than a straight line it's a riders skill that counts, not the bike.
BTDTHTTS (been there, done that or had that done to me, have the t-shirt) :thumb:
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Yeah, I tried to sign up on instagram to follow Itchy Boots, and now I get emails from there wanting me to follow others instead of emails telling me she posted something new. I'm guessing a lot of these sites are geared towards smartphone users.
if you go on to her page and look around the options... 'Turn on Notifications for this user' and that should help. She's mostly riding around her home country in the snow at the moment lol
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To be fair those numbers mean a lot because they prove that the current 850 engine is pretty much on par with the early Lemans.
Put it in a more sporting format with decent suspension with less weight and I doubt there's much much in it.
With a bit of effort they can make a bike that is slightly better than a bike they made 40 odd years ago, progress! :rolleyes:
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With a bit of effort they can make a bike that is slightly better than a bike they made 40 odd years ago, progress! :rolleyes:
Honda are considered to be one of the most cutting edge manufacturers today.
Back in the 80's they produced a mid weight all rounder called the CX500.
That bike produced 50bhp.
Their modern day equivalent is the NC700 which produces 51bhp.
There are plenty of other examples.
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Honda are considered to be one of the most cutting edge manufacturers today.
Back in the 80's they produced a mid weight all rounder called the CX500.
That bike produced 50bhp.
Their modern day equivalent is the NC700 which produces 51bhp.
There are plenty of other examples.
Well yes but the savage restrictions that are in place now, make it harder to get the same kW/litre.
If the shackles were removed, I bet Honda could get more than 51 bhp out of their 700 cc’s.
Same for the V85.
The new bike is quieter, more frugal AND more powerful than yesteryear’s Le Mans. Remove Euro # whatever, noise restrictions etc.. and the V85 would flog the Le Mans like a red headed stepson.
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if you go on to her page and look around the options... 'Turn on Notifications for this user' and that should help. She's mostly riding around her home country in the snow at the moment lol
Thanks. Yep, the pandemic really forced her to be creative with content and she did get her merchandizing going.
Reminds me of the writers strike many years ago that tanked some really good shows, and also ushered in the era of "reality" shows.
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With a bit of effort they can make a bike that is slightly better than a bike they made 40 odd years ago, progress! :rolleyes:
When you consider the choking emissions standards, it is actually amazing!
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I really like the 85TT.
Adventure bikes are not my thing.
In fact in general I don't like them but this Guzzi swung me because they showed us that this type of bike can be aesthetically pleasing and not like a giant tonka toy.
I was tempted but I'm going to wait until they build either a Lemans tribute or something similar on the same platform.
That would be awesome.
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I really like the 85TT.
Adventure bikes are not my thing.
In fact in general I don't like them but this Guzzi swung me because they showed us that this type of bike can be aesthetically pleasing and not like a giant tonka toy.
I was tempted but I'm going to wait until they build either a Lemans tribute or something similar on the same platform.
That would be awesome.
For where I live adventure bikes give the best ride on the most roads. When on my Road Glide, I am limited to about 25 percent of the available roads, on the V7III 50 percent, on the Van Van the opposite 50 percent from the V7III, and the Himalayan about 80 percent since it won't comfortably do high speeds.
Logically a V85TT or similar bike would take care of the majority of my riding, but I am not ready to part with what I currently have.
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Piaggio aren't stupid. I'm sure there's something of that ilk on its way as I'm typing this. It's just so blindingly obvious that there's a wellspring of demand for such a bike, for which they have almost all necessary componentry already in place with the current range.
Just a few tweaks to the geometry, a couple of cheap cast wheels, a smidge of plastic bodywork, LED light & other requisite supplier contracts in place & voila! A brand new model emerges just in time for the Anniversary. Just hope it's not the pig in pretty clothing that the "Racer" was.
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Piaggio aren't stupid. I'm sure there's something of that ilk on its way as I'm typing this. It's just so blindingly obvious that there's a wellspring of demand for such a bike, for which they have almost all necessary componentry already in place with the current range.
Just a few tweaks to the geometry, a couple of cheap cast wheels, a smidge of plastic bodywork, LED light & other requisite supplier contracts in place & voila! A brand new model emerges just in time for the Anniversary. Just hope it's not the pig in pretty clothing that the "Racer" was.
I'd love to believe that but these are Italians we're talking about who are not renowned for their logical approach to marketing.
For example they had the MGS01 which was one of the the most beautiful bikes ever made and people were begging them to produce a road going version at the right price using the current at the time big block.
But nothing.
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With a bit of effort they can make a bike that is slightly better than a bike they made 40 odd years ago, progress! :rolleyes:
First, who is to say the new one wouldn't be "better" - that it wouldn't be lighter, quicker, turn better, stop better, and last longer? Not to mention be easier to live with daily.
Second, how do you define "better"? - is it strictly lap times? (Again we don't yet know that the new one wouldn't be better at that), or can it be defined in a multitude of other things. Better fuel mileage, easier maintenance, longer lived components, how about all that with less environmental impact? Or how about better just because someone who wasn't old enough to buy and ride the original when IT was new can buy one now?
As Papa used to say with his thick Italian accent - "You don't want? Good, More For Us"
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When you consider the choking emissions standards, it is actually amazing!
When you look at what other manufacturers are doing its completely and utterly lazy.
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When you look at what other manufacturers are doing its completely and utterly lazy.
Aside from choosing to avoid the liquid-cooled route, I’m legitimately curious what you mean by this abstract response... Care to get specific with examples?
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When you look at what other manufacturers are doing its completely and utterly lazy.
That's like saying Jeep is being completely and utterly lazy not making a Bugatti Veyron.
Hell it's like saying Mazda is being completely and utterly lazy not making a Bugatti Veyron.
Bottom line to make the changes necessary for the type of performance boost you seem to want would mean fundamentally changing the formula, not just multiple valves or LC, perhaps total engine architecture too. At some point it then becomes an Aprilia and not a Guzzi.
There's no reason one manufacturer NEEDS to be something to everyone, or everything to everyone.
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Ahhhhhhhhh. The feel of a good thrusting stick in my hand and the thick smell of a bear nearby. :boozing:
You guys and your never ending “Give me a Lemans” threads. It would basically be a restyled Racer; that is, it would basically be a pointless variation on an already pointless and overstyled bike.
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I think companies like Guzzi are in a no win situation.
The purists scream in horror at the very notion of new technologies, and then as we see here, decry them for keeping as much as they can to their original formula
Damned if they do, damned if they don't
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Ahhhhhhhhh. The feel of a good thrusting stick in my hand and the thick smell of a bear nearby. :boozing:
You guys and your never ending “Give me a Lemans” threads. It would basically be a restyled Racer; that is, it would basically be a pointless variation on an already pointless and overstyled bike.
Pointless as they may seem, the V7 range have been the saviour of the company and are good sellers.
Perhaps you would have preferred seeing them go down the sink in the name of tradition.
Probably.
What's the point of the Racer?
Probably no more than the point of an ancient Lemans in the age of the Fire blade and Hayabusa which are a lot cheaper to buy.
Biking isn't about points
These are not cars for crying out loud
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Pointless as they may seem, the V7 range have been the saviour of the company and are good sellers.
Perhaps you would have preferred seeing them go down the sink in the name of tradition.
Probably.
What's the point of the Racer?
Probably no more than the point of an ancient Lemans in the age of the Fire blade and Hayabusa
Oh, please do note. I did not say “V7 range”. The V7s (Stones, Specials, etc.) are practical and tastefully styled bikes. Probably my favorite Guzzi I’ve ever owned.
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You guys and your never ending “Give me a Lemans” threads. It would basically be a restyled Racer; that is, it would basically be a pointless variation on an already pointless and overstyled bike.
Not necessarily.
There's no reason they couldn't make it something more special.
They could use the 7SM and give it more hp, multi-mapping, USD forks and dual discs along with the already improved rear suspension.
That would be both a real change from the current Racer and arguably really justify the higher price from the other V7 variants.
Hell one could argue properly done it would reduce the "overstyled" nature of the current Racer.
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Oh, please do note. I did not say “V7 range”. The V7s (Stones, Specials, etc.) are practical and tastefully styled bikes. Probably my favorite Guzzi I’ve ever owned.
This is the same whining I'm very familiar with in the case of BMW owners.
The Racer isn't to my taste either but I wouldn't declare it pointless just because I don't like it.
That would make me an arrogant fool because I know someone who owns one who enjoys it very much.
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This is the same whining I'm very familiar with in the case of BMW owners.
The Racer isn't to my taste either but I wouldn't declare it pointless just because I don't like it.
That would make me an arrogant fool because I know someone who owns one who enjoys it very much.
See my above bear and stick quote to appreciate the intent of my post and overall humor I mean. And hey, I really should have put "For me" before everything said above. I love big, goofy, Halloween looking upright dirt bikes for the road and I'm absolutely certain a lot if not most of the people here would find those bikes pointless as well. But I wouldn't be offended by their opinion nor would it bother me. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla motorcycles :wink:
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Not necessarily.
There's no reason they couldn't make it something more special.
They could use the 7SM and give it more hp, multi-mapping, USD forks and dual discs along with the already improved rear suspension.
That would be both a real change from the current Racer and arguably really justify the higher price from the other V7 variants.
Hell one could argue properly done it would reduce the "overstyled" nature of the current Racer.
I don't disagree with any of this. It would still just mostly be a show pony to me. And hey, nothing wrong with that. But please, pleeeeassse, will someone at the drawing table remove the number plate. Sheesh. Worse than the fake "carbs" that some of the FI Bonnie's had - still have?
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I don't disagree with any of this. It would still just mostly be a show pony to me. And hey, nothing wrong with that. But please, pleeeeassse, will someone at the drawing table remove the number plate. Sheesh. Worse than the fake "carbs" that some of the FI Bonnie's had - still have?
Saddle off, fours bolts and it's off in under two minutes
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I don't disagree with any of this. It would still just mostly be a show pony to me.
For the life of me I cannot understand how someone who likes the V7 Special or Stone would say that about a V7 LeMans, especially if it had all the upgrades I just mentioned. It would undoubtedly perform "better" than the original in the twisties arguably (especially with better motor, suspension, and brakes) better than the current crop or even recently announced V7s.
How's that a show pony?
Again, if I wanted a friggin' Ape, Duc, Hyabusa etc, I could buy it, but just because that's not what this would be wouldn't relegate to the paddock of a show pony.
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Lemans should mean something , just because Pontiac used the name for a pedestrian saloon car doesn't mean Guzzi should do the same . It might be true that a modern small block could be made to perform as well as an old BB Lemans , in terms relative to the era calling a new SB a Lemans is a bit silly . IMHO .
Dusty
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I understand the horsepower comparisons between the original LeMans and a V7 based LeMans but shouldn't a contemporary version have the same or similar amount of power as Triumph Thruxton,etc.? You know, Ohlins suspension, 103 HP even if it isn't accurate, 83 lbs. of torque and a full line of accessories. Yes, they'd have to charge $16K but they aren't marketing the bike to the majority of the suspender snapper's who will be clinging to their T's and T-3's until death do they part.
https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/classic/thruxton-rs
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There are varying opinions about the return of the "LeMans" both pro and con.
Not to change the subject, but how was the V11 series of Lemans received when they came out in the early 2000's ? Did the purists frown on it ? Was it considered sport touring rather than sport ? Was there any controversy ?
I'm just wondering if History will repeat itself ... :clock:
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The Lemans is a gorgeous bike but at 75, get off my lawn geezerhood, not my type of bike any longer. It would be mostly a garage queen. I'll stick with my V7lll Special. A bit more relaxed and my Audace for longer rides and it is getting to be a handfull at times, slow speeds mainly.
kk
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I want Guzzi to make the exact bike I dreamed up while I was drinking a beer in front of the TV.
It would be so easy! All I want is a 300# bike with 150hp, modern style but doesnt look like a bug, retro feel but not look like the same old stuff they have made since the 70's, state of the art but I dont want ABS and traction control, and I want dual discs-ohlins suspension-perfect fit and finish but it can't cost more than $7999. One last thing, it MUST be an air-cooled V-twin with shaft drive.
I'm not gonna buy one, I just want them to make it so I can buy it 6 years after release with 3k miles on it; at about 85% off MSRP; from someone on cycletrader. :boozing:
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I want Guzzi to make the exact bike I dreamed up while I was drinking a beer in front of the TV.
It would be so easy! All I want is a 300# bike with 150hp, modern style but doesnt look like a bug, retro feel but not look like the same old stuff they have made since the 70's, state of the art but I dont want ABS and traction control, and I want dual discs-ohlins suspension-perfect fit and finish but it can't cost more than $7999. One last thing, it MUST be an air-cooled V-twin with shaft drive.
I'm not gonna buy one, I just want them to make it so I can buy it 6 years after release with 3k miles on it; at about 85% off MSRP; from someone on cycletrader. :boozing:
That about covers it.
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Said it before, 95% of those crying for one, wouldn't buy a new LeMans if Guzzi makes it. I hope there is a lot of sales in that 5%!
Kev stated things pretty well.
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When you look at what other manufacturers are doing its completely and utterly lazy.
Why would I look at what other manufacturers are doing? I’m only interested in air cooled bikes that are fun on 45 mph back roads. I have no need or desire for high performance motorcycles. If I did, I would be back on Japanese bikes.
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For the life of me I cannot understand how someone who likes the V7 Special or Stone would say that about a V7 LeMans, especially if it had all the upgrades I just mentioned. It would undoubtedly perform "better" than the original in the twisties arguably (especially with better motor, suspension, and brakes) better than the current crop or even recently announced V7s.
How's that a show pony?
Again, if I wanted a friggin' Ape, Duc, Hyabusa etc, I could buy it, but just because that's not what this would be wouldn't relegate to the paddock of a show pony.
Sidebar here. Everyone's idea of a showpony is gonna be different and on a motorcycle board - where we nearly deal exclusively in opinion - I'm not sure anyone's idea of one is more or less valid than anyone else's. So I won't be offended when someone says I drive a joke anymore than anyone else here should be offended by what I say.
Btw, did anyone actually see or get the bear poking comment above? That was a kind of joke. But then again, I guess bear poking is just always a kind of joke until it isn't. :grin:
Oh yes, back to the quote. Kev, they are not going to dial back the styling on these things. You KNOW they are not. If anything they are going to turn it up a notch or two even for a full fledged Lemans version. I may even make the (gasp) absurd argument that your changes make it even more a show pony. The styling won't change and for your improvements, have you made it a more practical bike? No, you've made it a more expensive bike than even a Racer, still down on power from pretty much anything else in the class, and a slightly better bike than a V7 in the twisties, a place where it will never rule no matter how much suspension money you throw at it.
And as per the showpony comment. You got me man :grin: I don't know how any bike with 48 horsepower (oh wait, they've bumped it to 65? 70? 75?) better forks, a chrome tank, a belt strap across the tank, a manufactured badge to tell you what number you got, a side number plate, and an oddball flat track era headlight topper, and a 12k? 13k? price tag could ever be called a show pony? :boozing:
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I think what Murray wants is a highish performing engine with equal suspension, that looks mostly like a 40 year old Guzzi. It would have to be liquid cooled and there would be no reason to make it look like the legendary Guzzi v twin.
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I understand the horsepower comparisons between the original LeMans and a V7 based LeMans but shouldn't a contemporary version have the same or similar amount of power as Triumph Thruxton,etc.? You know, Ohlins suspension, 103 HP even if it isn't accurate, 83 lbs. of torque and a full line of accessories. Yes, they'd have to charge $16K but they aren't marketing the bike to the majority of the suspender snapper's who will be clinging to their T's and T-3's until death do they part.
https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/classic/thruxton-rs
No actually I think that's precisely my point. As WONDERFUL a job as they did to tie the Neo-LC-Bonnies to the air-cooled ones they in fact created something different. Going water-cooled alone would be enough for me to say it's not the same thing.
Kinda like it looks how Harley will likely kill the Sportster soon and replace it completely with something not named a Sportster.
Making a smallblock LeMans that outperformed the original and looked as close to it as they could would be about as true to the name as possible, and way more so than sticking the name on a new water-cooled anything else, especially an L3 or L4 or who knows what.
And no just going ape with the CCs - like a 1400 LeMans wouldn't be a "better" homage.
At least to me. YMMV and all that.
Oh yes, back to the quote. Kev, they are not going to dial back the styling on these things. You KNOW they are not. If anything they are going to turn it up a notch or two even for a full fledged Lemans version. I may even make the (gasp) absurd argument that your changes make it even more a show pony. The styling won't change and for your improvements, have you made it a more practical bike? No, you've made it a more expensive bike than even a Racer, still down on power from pretty much anything else in the class, and a slightly better bike than a V7 in the twisties, a place where it will never rule no matter how much suspension money you throw at it.
What the hell do you think the CATEGORY IS?
Just cause two bikes have the same CCs doesn't put them in the same category.
The CATEGORY is air-cooled, retro twins. The category is pushrods. The category is as much simplicity as you can get from a machine today with some real world performance.
The CATEGORY doesn't have a lot of competition right now, maybe some REs, maybe the last of the Sportsters (though the killed the Roadster).
The CATEGORY WAS possibly the Thruxton that was out before the water-cooled models, the category WAS the small air-cooled Monsters and maybe is the Scrambler (though with Ducs you throw away a lot of the easy maintenance).
The CATEGORY is a V85 for road use without the ugly ADV identity.
The CATEGORY is BUY A MOTO GUZZI cause it ooooozzzeessss Guzzisitti, not Japanificating transfiguration.
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"No actually I think that's precisely my point. As WONDERFUL a job as they did to tie the Neo-LC-Bonnies to the air-cooled ones they in fact created something different. Going water-cooled alone would be enough for me to say it's not the same thing"
"....the same or similar amount of power as Triumph Thruxton,etc"
I was just using the Thruxton as one of many examples. The new BMW retro bike is 1800 cc's and it's air cooled. Let's face it, Piaggio doesn't want to spend the money to achieve a new Guzzi engine and I understand that given the state of the motorcycle business.
But if they can't achieve the 100+ HP goal, then just keep making the V7's and don't call any of them a LeMans.
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Someone mentioned the new Thruxton. I think that's a fair marker. Personally, I'd like the Guzzi to have perhaps a little more power, like 110 rwhp and maybe 500lb gassed? Couple that with sure Guzzi handing and feel and famous torque curve, longitudinal crank V-twin and shaft drive.
The LeMans version should be influenced by the beautiful styling of the last spine frame LeMans, the naked version perhaps a combo of the Grsio and V11 Sport and maybe a half faired/naked dress up like the original LeMans.
Unfortunately, it appears that Guzzi has no drivetrain in the class that's Euro compliant.
Funny BMW makes hay with the R nine T model which just a ripoff of the Griso styling. Rather than upgrade the Griso engine and expand the line, Guzzi gave up.
The new line of small blocks are nice looking bikes. Guzzi had done a good job of modernizing them. But the LeMans series should reflect more performance and customers need a choice. Personally, I was interested in a sportier bike and have moved on from Guzzi. We could also write about a new Touring bike too.
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OK, I'll end with Semantics, they'd sell a ton, despite any objections.
I know you can reuse the old name on a completely different product and get results (our new Defender is an example of that and they're selling a shit ton of them). However that also completely changes the customer and focus of the product. I'm not sure that's what Guzzi SHOULD do. I mean WTF would Piaggio BOTHER, if they want that kind of bike they already have a brand to sell it under Aprilia.
Guzzi however, is more like the Jeep (which was more like the old Defender). It doesn't have to be all the things a modern SUV (like that new Defender is) to continue to garner sales and loyalty and love. A smallblock LeMans is more the Jeep than the Defender to me. If they try to wade into the water of water-cooled, multi-cylinder sportbikes they'll get lost in the sea of sameness.
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how about this... Forget 'LEMANS' for a minute..
What if they put the full output v85 engine in a v7 chassis with upgraded kit (clipons, rearsets, dual disc, usd fork, bikini fairing and/or seat cowl <with or without number plate lol>) and call it a V7 Monza or V7 Racer
Then anyone who wants a world-beater sportbike Guzzi can buy a sticker that says "LeMans" and stick it on their Aprilia RSV4
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Jeez, I'm not even talking about 180hp bike.
I don't have a problem with the small blocks, nice bikes but a LeMans should have a certain level of WOW and I don't see that happening with the small block engine.
The MGS/01 had lot's of Wow and plenty of press to go with that design and that was the last time Guzzi received that level of attention. 20 years ago.
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Jeez, I'm not even talking about 180hp bike.
I don't have a problem with the small blocks, nice bikes but a LeMans should have a certain level of WOW and I don't see that happening with the small block engine.
The MGS/01 had lot's of Wow and plenty of press to go with that design and that was the last time Guzzi received that level of attention. 20 years ago.
I agree. Though I won't be buying one regardless, I do think you can't just lightly trade on the Lemans badge by tarting up a V7. The latter is kinda what they tried with the Eldo. If they are going to use the Lemans badge, I think it would need to be a ground up creation or major revision on the scale of the change between the Cali 1100 to 1400.
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I agree. Though I won't be buying one regardless, I do think you can't just lightly trade on the Lemans badge by tarting up a V7. The latter is kinda what they tried with the Eldo. If they are going to use the Lemans badge, I think it would need to be a ground up creation or major revision on the scale of the change between the Cali 1100 to 1400.
Well I'd have one but then I'm a new guzzi customer.
Guzzi should shed their die hard stalwarts, most of whom would never buy a new Guzzi anyway and so do not contribute a penny to the business.
Why should they determine in which direction the company goes.
Guzzi should be looking to a new less blinkered younger demographic prepared to invest in the latest thing rather than those wallowing in nostalgia with their wallets firmly closed.
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I agree. Though I won't be buying one regardless, I do think you can't just lightly trade on the Lemans badge by tarting up a V7. The latter is kinda what they tried with the Eldo. If they are going to use the Lemans badge, I think it would need to be a ground up creation or major revision on the scale of the change between the Cali 1100 to 1400.
aarrrrggghh you drag me back.
I think the big disconnect that you are missing is that THIS ISN'T DESIGNED AROUND THE SIX or SEVEN PEOPLE in the world who currently know and give a crap about the LeMans from a historical standpoint AND who would only buy a LeMans badged bike if it was some sort of modern sportbike.
This is about the *many* new customers who never heard of the damn thing who would likely flock to it based on:
* Aesthetics
* Some historical connection they can bathe in without needing to really care.
* Real world attainable performance
Ala most Harley sales, Ala most Indian sales, Ala most Triumph neo-classic sales these many years, Ala RE sales, etc.
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If they did an 'R' version of the new 850cc V7, with better suspension, some of the other upgrades we all secretly want, and maybe a few tweaks to the ergonomics or styling, I'd have no trouble with them stocking a 'Lemans' label on it. I'd also be heading straight to the dealer here to have a look.
Particularly if the heads had two more valves each. After all, a man can dream... :laugh:
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Lemans should mean something , just because Pontiac used the name for a pedestrian saloon car doesn't mean Guzzi should do the same . It might be true that a modern small block could be made to perform as well as an old BB Lemans , in terms relative to the era calling a new SB a Lemans is a bit silly . IMHO .
Dusty
Does that reasoning apply to the Triumph Daytona that was reborn as the 955i and did anyone turn their nose up in derision when Guzzi took the name and glued it onto their thing ?
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Does that reasoning apply to the Triumph Daytona that was reborn as the 955i and did anyone turn their nose up in derision when Guzzi took the name and glued it onto their thing ?
The modern Daytona is competitive with other bikes in the supersports class .
Dusty
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Well I'd have one but then I'm a new guzzi customer.
Guzzi should shed their die hard stalwarts, most of whom would never buy a new Guzzi anyway and so do not contribute a penny to the business.
Why should they determine in which direction the company goes.
Guzzi should be looking to a new less blinkered younger demographic prepared to invest in the latest thing rather than those wallowing in nostalgia with their wallets firmly closed.
Bud , there isn't any reason for you to continue insulting the Guzzi demographic , are we clear ? We have been buying new Guzzis for years , promoting the brand , etc etc . Take a breath .
Dusty
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I don’t necessarily except that a bike has to be “competitive” to acquire market acceptance. If you look across the range of offerings from any manufacturer, you’ll see that there are a spread of models that offer different levels of sportiness, tourability, utilitarian ability, or just plain pretty.
There is a broadly held belief that a bike has to be “competitive” to sell, that is certainly true, but competitive in what field ?
Dave Swanson’s V11 Sport is more desirable than a 2005 GSXR Suzuki, yet it’s not competitive. But it’s less desirable if you have a small budget.
The new RE Interceptors are not competitive with any modern Japanese mid size sportsbike, yet people will choose one for the nostalgic cues and everyday ride ability.
To nominate a bike as competitive, you must first know for sure what parameters the potential buyer rates as most important and these are as many and varied as the buyers themselves.
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That seemed fairly benign.
I was wondering what year Dusty thinks it is cause that Jackal is a couple of decades old now.
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I was wondering what year Dusty thinks it is cause that Jackal is a couple of decades old now.
Huh ? What does that have to do with this discussion ?
Dusty
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Huh ? What does that have to do with this discussion ?
Dusty
You said "We" :boozing:
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You said "We" :boozing:
Did you know me in 1980 ? Or 1973 ?
Dusty
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Did you know me in 1980 ? Or 1973 ?
Dusty
Dusty, I think Kev’s point is that if you haven’t bought a new bike for at least 40 years can you rightly assume to have a say where the marque should go ?
Answer is still “yes” though.
I don’t agree with his assertion, but I think that was his point.
Also Kev, you should take on board that when Dusty says “we”, he is describing the broader Guzzi populous. You are a bit of a rough and tumble sort of character and I think your comment was mildly in jest given the emoji you attached..
Yes ?
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Well mine is 20 years old this September and the last bike I bought new. Added the Centauro a few years later. Although I've liked several new Guzzis over the years, the Norge never replaced the V11 Lemans in my heart, the Griso didn't make me grin like the Centauro, the Stelvio was so damn big, the breva not on your life, but the 1200 Breva Sport was a contender but gone too soon and not as good looking as the V11 Lemans. So I have my 20 year old bike and my 22 year old bike that both run great and my 46 year old Triumph that someday may run again.
For me the V7 is just too small but I haven't sat on one since the original run. I'd love a Lemans, but it would be a 17 year old one.
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It's a small block so it should be named Monza not LeMans.
(https://i.ibb.co/jwnV6wv/Unknown.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jwnV6wv)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
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It's a small block so it should be named Monza not LeMans.
(https://i.ibb.co/jwnV6wv/Unknown.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jwnV6wv)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
:thumb:
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Dusty, I think Kev’s point is that if you haven’t bought a new bike for at least 40 years can you rightly assume to have a say where the marque should go ?
Answer is still “yes” though.
I don’t agree with his assertion, but I think that was his point.
Also Kev, you should take on board that when Dusty says “we”, he is describing the broader Guzzi populous. You are a bit of a rough and tumble sort of character and I think your comment was mildly in jest given the emoji you attached..
Yes ?
Here's the thing , Guzzi will probably never build a truly high performance motorbike again , that market is minuscule . Why would a company that builds 7K units a year even try to compete in that market . The market is now mostly retro or adventure style motorbikes , Guzzi has those two genres covered , right . Now , they could create something using the modern SB platform , use the full output V85 motor in a more standard platform , employ modern upside down forks , rising rate rear suspension , dual 4 piston brakes up front , a sporting seating position , and maybe get away with calling it a Lemans . However , if they just build a poser the internet will rip it to shreds .
Dusty
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Such is the dilemma with a niche bike manufacturer that has recently taken on the moniker of “sorry, retro-style bikes only.” At one point the manufacturer was going its own, innovative path with machines that, while quirky, kept up with other manufacturers. Now, it appears its focus is a constant reminder of the past. As much as I prefer classic retro styling myself, I’m attempting to see through the fog of my own bias, and in doing so can only think of the word “stale.” Not so much with any individual model, but I feel the company at large may soon realize that, as Royal Enfield even appears on a path to eventually begin innovating (at least within their own brand), and seeing Triumph continuing to grow by putting out new/ updated, highly reviewed models (ignoring the build quality / reliability issues), at what point might MG / Piaggio look at its own brand and lineup and say to itself “maybe it’s time to get serious about being modern.”
I’d be significantly disappointed in MG if they called a V7 850 Racer a Le Mans. They should make it its own thing. MG needs to prove to folks who read moto website reviews and watch YouTube vids that they’re not 20 years behind.
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Did you know me in 1980 ? Or 1973 ?
Dusty
Completely irrelevant to what the company should do today.
It's kinda like "if you don't vote (economically in this case), don't bitch".
But yes it's largely in jest Huzo, though I'm not sure I even accept the royal we in this case.
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Here's the thing , Guzzi will probably never build a truly high performance motorbike again , that market is minuscule . Why would a company that builds 7K units a year even try to compete in that market . The market is now mostly retro or adventure style motorbikes , Guzzi has those two genres covered , right . Now , they could create something using the modern SB platform , use the full output V85 motor in a more standard platform , employ modern upside down forks , rising rate rear suspension , dual 4 piston brakes up front , a sporting seating position , and maybe get away with calling it a Lemans . However , if they just build a poser the internet will rip it to shreds .
Dusty
Ha ha, THIS was most of what I was saying. Except that I don't think Guzzi should care about what the internet says is it sells.
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Guzzi hasn't built a bike that I've wanted in 10 years. The 1400T nearly got me over but I didn't like the cruiser riding position and was dubious about the reliability. I'd still like to get a touring bike like an RT but haven't wanted to spend for one for various reasons (they won't trade by old bike and Beemer cost of ownership).
I was interested in a sporty machine and Griso wasn't enough of difference from my V11 Sport. So I purchased a Ducati 939 Supersport. Even though comparing a "dream" LeMans to the Duc would be apple to oranges, I would still have an interest based on my fondness for Guzzis. So rather than apples to oranges, it was apples to nothing.
I think the small blocks are nice bikes. I'm just not interested to own one. The V85 engine doesn't have performance or lineage to be a LeMans. I hope the make a sporty V85, just call it another name like Monza or Lario.
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IMHO, the next LeMans, or formerly 'big block' model name will be an Electric motorcycle. Don't make sense for MG to pour lire into a new large ICE to make it EU/US compliant.
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It's a small block so it should be named Monza not LeMans.
(https://i.ibb.co/jwnV6wv/Unknown.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jwnV6wv)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
I GOT IT!
The 2021 Moto Guzzi LeMonza !!! :boozing:
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Cut down on the drinkin' Kev, jus' sayin' :rolleyes:
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I GOT IT!
The 2021 Moto Guzzi LeMonza !!! :boozing:
:grin: :boozing:
Or wait, The Lemonzario!
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Here's the thing , Guzzi will probably never build a truly high performance motorbike again , that market is minuscule . Why would a company that builds 7K units a year even try to compete in that market . The market is now mostly retro or adventure style motorbikes , Guzzi has those two genres covered , right . Now , they could create something using the modern SB platform , use the full output V85 motor in a more standard platform , employ modern upside down forks , rising rate rear suspension , dual 4 piston brakes up front , a sporting seating position , and maybe get away with calling it a Lemans . However , if they just build a poser the internet will rip it to shreds .
Dusty
The internet would rip it a new one as you say, but that does not address the issue of how the Le Mans for instance would or would not, manage to “compete”.
What is it competing for ?
You could bet your last dollar, that if Joe Average rolled up to Cedar Vale on a brand new 2021 Le Mans, it would generate a hell of a lot of interest and one of the first questions would be, “How many are we going to get over here..”
You’ll of course remember the old tale of the underpowered, never to be seen, “concept bike” called the V85 TT.
It was widely agreed that it would sell in the tens and we’d all better “prepare to be underwhelmed..” :rolleyes:
If we all mingle in a group who own uncompetitive bikes, then our bike will become competitive within that group we’ll be equal to our peers and you’ll be bound to admit Guzzi riders are a bit insular.
There are bikes being built these days by major manufacturers that could not be described as competitive, yet it does not seem to matter as much these days as in the (recent) past..
If the new Le Mans hits the floors, V85’s will be a dime a dozen.
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Such is the dilemma with a niche bike manufacturer that has recently taken on the moniker of “sorry, retro-style bikes only.” At one point the manufacturer was going its own, innovative path with machines that, while quirky, kept up with other manufacturers. Now, it appears its focus is a constant reminder of the past. As much as I prefer classic retro styling myself, I’m attempting to see through the fog of my own bias, and in doing so can only think of the word “stale.” Not so much with any individual model, but I feel the company at large may soon realize that, as Royal Enfield even appears on a path to eventually begin innovating (at least within their own brand), and seeing Triumph continuing to grow by putting out new/ updated, highly reviewed models (ignoring the build quality / reliability issues), at what point might MG / Piaggio look at its own brand and lineup and say to itself “maybe it’s time to get serious about being modern.”
I’d be significantly disappointed in MG if they called a V7 850 Racer a Le Mans. They should make it its own thing. MG needs to prove to folks who read moto website reviews and watch YouTube vids that they’re not 20 years behind.
So, they should go electric but keep the look of the current engine. Modern performance while retaining the Guzzi look.
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Personally I really would like to see a standout model that would rise above the current V7 and v9 offerings.
While the 100th anniversary models are tastefully done, I think that ultimately they will just blend into all of the other special models that Moto Guzzi has tried over the last five or six years.
Yes I'm sure that the purest would hate the idea of an 850 CC small block LeMans when the original was a big block, but when you look at horsepower and efficiency the v85 motor is obviously a solid platform for a v85 LeMans.
Would such a bike be a direct competitor to the thruxton or z900r or XRS 900 or the 9rt performance-wise? I don't think so but I also don't think it needs to be. I would see it as an alternative to those and something closer to moto guzzi's heritage.
I also think that if they put the higher output v85 motor with the rider modes and throttle by wire with color matched parts (in gloss paint thank you very much) front to back and a small Cafe fairing, and avoided slapping on those stupid racer medallion things, they would have a solid stand out bike that would be well received.
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Personally I really would like to see a standout model that would rise above the current V7 and v9 offerings.
While the 100th anniversary models are tastefully done, I think that ultimately they will just blend into all of the other special models that Moto Guzzi has tried over the last five or six years.
Yes I'm sure that the purest would hate the idea of an 850 CC small block LeMans when the original was a big block, but when you look at horsepower and efficiency the v85 motor is obviously a solid platform for a v85 LeMans.
Would such a bike be a direct competitor to the thruxton or z900r or XRS 900 or the 9rt performance-wise? I don't think so but I also don't think it needs to be. I would see it as an alternative to those and something closer to moto guzzi's heritage.
I also think that if they put the higher output v85 motor with the rider modes and throttle by wire with color matched parts (in gloss paint thank you very much) front to back and a small Cafe fairing, and avoided slapping on those stupid racer medallion things, they would have a solid stand out bike that would be well received.
With cast wheels and ohlins front and back.
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With cast wheels and ohlins front and back.
And twin front discs
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And twin front discs
With cast wheels and ohlins front and back.
Absolutely to all.
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Absolutely to all.
Basically what I was describing from the start.
The new LaMonza or whatever the frick they want to call it.
Griso Lite®
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Apparently Kev, you have been drinking, so we have to take what you say with a grain of salt. haha
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Apparently Kev, you have been drinking, so we have to take what you say with a grain of salt. haha
True story, though I hear that's also true when I'm sober. :embarassed:
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True story, though I hear that's also true when I'm sober. :embarassed:
I think we can affirm that. :wink:
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Basically what I was describing from the start.
The new LaMonza or whatever the frick they want to call it.
Griso Lite®
Kev, silly us to not just follow your suggestion and just stop the discussion.. :cool: :evil: :drool:
V85 Lemans is what they should call it. To recap (and shamelessly ignoring detractors)
- Heritage red paint on fenders, tank, side covers, cafe fairing (all currently available from V7/9)
- USD forks/Ohlins shocks (available from V85 but needs better innards)
- Twin disk brakes (available from V85)
- V85 motor with sharper tune, Throttle by wire and 52mm TB (from V85 with unique tune)
- ABS/TC/Performance, Standard and Rain rider modes (software, easy do)
- Modern Sport bike rim/tire sizes with cast rims. (Not sure that these sizes are possible if using current suspension bits from the V7/9/85 parts bin)
- Dual clock gauges with modern info (may need to be developed)
- Clipons VS Standard upright. I would vote for upright, but could go either way.
So.... GRiSO lite.......... :evil: Then again, everything will be anyway.
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Kev, silly us to not just follow your suggestion and just stop the discussion.. :cool: :evil: :drool:
V85 Lemans is what they should call it. To recap (and shamelessly ignoring detractors)
- Heritage red paint on fenders, tank, side covers, cafe fairing (all currently available from V7/9)
- USD forks/Ohlins shocks (available from V85 but needs better innards)
- Twin disk brakes (available from V85)
- V85 motor with sharper tune, Throttle by wire and 52mm TB (from V85 with unique tune)
- ABS/TC/Performance, Standard and Rain rider modes (software, easy do)
- Modern Sport bike rim/tire sizes with cast rims. (Not sure that these sizes are possible if using current suspension bits from the V7/9/85 parts bin)
- Dual clock gauges with modern info (may need to be developed)
- Clipons VS Standard upright. I would vote for upright, but could go either way.
So.... GRiSO lite.......... :evil: Then again, everything will be anyway.
Ya see, was that so friggin' hard? No, obviously not. Sheesh :cool:
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:thumb:
OK now Bulldog9, when are you going to submit that list to Mandello Del Lario so they can start production?
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An interesting comparison is the recent SR400 release. It is the same short stroke version of the SR500 with FI to meet emissions requirements. I wonder if the tooling exists to spit a few thousand LeMans I remakes out into the world complete with optional straight-cut gears and open pipes. Price it about $14k. I’d think about it. I’m guessing only the Japanese could pull this off.
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Hmmm. It must still be Winter.. :grin:
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I've never ridden an original LeMans. However, I own a V11 and ridden the V85TT.
John...what was your feedback on the V85?
I love my V11, and for me the riding position is simply perfect, it's the most well designed aerodynamic Guzzi I have in the fleet, absolutely zero buffeting at any speed, and it just spins up like crazy.
I hope to try out a V85 sometime in the future, but damn, with a Norge, Griso and V11, what could a V85 give me that would tempt me to add it to the fleet?
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John...what was your feedback on the V85?
I love my V11, and for me the riding position is simply perfect, it's the most well designed aerodynamic Guzzi I have in the fleet, absolutely zero buffeting at any speed, and it just spins up like crazy.
I hope to try out a V85 sometime in the future, but damn, with a Norge, Griso and V11, what could a V85 give me that would tempt me to add it to the fleet?
The ability to go on the roads less travelled.
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Hmmm. It must still be Winter.. :grin:
8F here with white stuff covering everything so yeah still Winter, you are just full of sage advice :laugh:
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John...what was your feedback on the V85?
I love my V11, and for me the riding position is simply perfect, it's the most well designed aerodynamic Guzzi I have in the fleet, absolutely zero buffeting at any speed, and it just spins up like crazy.
I hope to try out a V85 sometime in the future, but damn, with a Norge, Griso and V11, what could a V85 give me that would tempt me to add it to the fleet?
The V85 is a nice bike. It handled a little uneasy in the corners with the tall soft suspension but I'm sure that with some experience, it would feel fine and add some character. The bike seemed well integrated and perhaps more mainstream and less Guzzi-quirky. I'd rate the riding experience similar to 650 VStrom. The power is good but it doesn't have big block torque. So Paul, if you were thinking about adding a 650 Vstrom or Versys to your fleet, this might fill the bill. If you want a big block, then you might look for a good Stelvio (I've never ridden one). I think this bike is a great middleweight Adv Tourer. It's not in the performance category that I could envision for a LeMans model or a Norge.
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8F here with white stuff covering everything so yeah still Winter, you are just full of sage advice :laugh:
Mmmmm, sage. I think I'll fix chicken tonight. :smiley:
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Hmmm. It must still be Winter.. :grin:
Bah. What makes you think that? Five pages and still going on a sometimes heated debate about what a bike should/could be that is not even in development at the factory? It must be Wildguzzi! :grin: :boozing: But oh well. I guess that’s why I keep coming back here. :laugh:
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Well, I'd like about a nice round duet of 100 or so PS & Torques please, if that's not too much to ask Messrs. Piaggio.
Oh, hang on! It's a Moto Guzzi, isn't it? I guess it is too much to ask.....
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Bah. What makes you think that? Five pages and still going on a sometimes heated debate about what a bike should/could be that is not even in development at the factory? It must be Wildguzzi! :grin: :boozing: But oh well. I guess that’s why I keep coming back here. :laugh:
At least it's not a 5 page debate over a crap photoshop image from some fakey "designer" :laugh:
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At least it's not a 5 page debate over a crap photoshop image from some fakey "designer" :laugh:
Yes exactly..
Especially after Dusty intimated that we need to be careful, but still guys want to play near the edge.. :clock: :violent1: