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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: oldbike54 on March 07, 2021, 11:36:15 AM
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Let's pretend that you are given the opportunity to ride a truly historic racing motorbike or drive an equivalent racing automobile at say Road America . What particular racing vehicle would you choose , and would you at least attempt to operate it in anger , or just get all squishy at the thought of running a vintage motor vehicle at anywhere near what it is capable of ?
Go .
Dusty
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"pocketa-pocketa-pocketa"
Something I've often heard in my mind when dreaming of a new caper...when I was a kid.
The ultimate day dreamer.
Air races '33 in a Grandville Gee Bee Model R Super Sportster.
:-)
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For me the bike would have to be a Britten V1000. No way could I match it's capability but ten or so laps would be unforgettable. As far as a car is concerned it would have to be Andy Granatelli's Turbine car. I'm sure it could be adjusted to make right turns for Road America. Experiencing either from an engineering breakthrough perspective would definitely be on the squishy side.
Paul B :boozing:
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Porsche 917-in Gulf colors
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OK , let's expand the parameters a bit , Kirby mentioned an old air racer , and Paul mentioned what was only an oval car , in fact really just designed to run at Indy . In the spirit of that , it could be an old AA/fuel coupe or roadster at Pomona , a vintage dirt tracker , say Mert's KR or Nixon's Triumph framer at Springfield . Maybe you always wanted to try an Indy roadster at Indy , or one of those insane Allison powered hydroplanes , or a speedway bike at a classic track in New Zealand or Australia . Maybe a few laps in a Chaparral 2 A or a MK 6 Mclaren at Laguna or Mosport Park .
Dusty
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Car - Repco Brabham BT24 no contest. I used to race this online in Grand Prix Legends, and that caused me to look up quite a bit about the car that beat the big boys, and Gentleman Jack, and Ron Tauranac tuning wizard.
Bike - AMDM720 - saw them run at the TT in 2000 and quite amazing single cyclinder racebikes - though a Ducati 570 Supermono would also be nice.
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Car - Repco Brabham BT24 no contest. I used to race this online in Grand Prix Legends, and that caused me to look up quite a bit about the car that beat the big boys, and Gentleman Jack, and Ron Tauranac tuning wizard.
Bike - AMDM720 - saw them run at the TT in 2000 and quite amazing single cyclinder racebikes - though a Ducati 570 Supermono would also be nice.
Is that the bike McPint rode ?
Dusty
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Yes it indeed was. And in the race he was chased by a Supermono, with (I think) Bob Heath? on a BSA that was pretty lovely as well following up the rear.
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4 bikes out of the Moto Guzzi Museo in Mandello del Lario and not in any order:
1) Any of the 500 singles and for a 2fer, the one with the ski attachment for the snow, in the snow.
2) V8 500.
3) Bicylindrica.
4) MG-S01.
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An unsupervised drive in West Virginia in an AC Cobra, Triumph Tr3 or a V8 Miata would be fun. Or a parachute and the keys to a Super Decathalon. I was never fond of speed on a motorcycle, (or good at it) but cowtrailing on an old chrome tank Husky would be great. I guess I'm just a "gentleman sportsman." (translation: SLOW)
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A WW2 American colours P 51 Mustang, British Spitfire or PBY 5A Catalina..
If forced to choose one ?
Polished aluminium Mustang with black and white markings... :drool:
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Car would be a real 289 AC Cobra. I grew up in our TR3B, then added multiple 289 Fords to the mix and have always wanted the chance to extend my British-car-as-normal perspective into the Ford 289 Hipo realm. I'm not interested in a modernized, blinged out car with a 347, 5 speed and independent suspension pretending to be "original". Beyond modern tires, I want the real Cobra experience. Someday....
Bike- a real Norton Manx. Same parameters. Watching the old bikes flog around Isle of Mann with no traffic. That would be quite an opportunity.
Honestly, I would be more than happy to have no traffic and no penalties to travel the same isle of Mann-type of roads on the machines I already own. My V7 Sport or 428 Galaxie, (or my V700 Corsa Record or TR3B when finished) at full song on good roads that I know like the back of my hand is more than enough for me. That's why I have them. Even though there's so many driveways everywhere now, there's still some really great roads between here and Knoxville...
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Don't really have a desire to road race but boy would I like to go thorough the gears and feel what 11,000 HP is like is a top fuel dragster.
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For me, the car would need to be an early Shelby Cobra - I would be happy with the 289. Or a 914 with the BIG motor. Or a V8 Miata
The bike - a T-rex with the big Gixxer or Huyabusa motor.
I'm not a good enough rider to do justice to a Britten, or an MGS-01, or a tricked out RC51, or any of the latest crop of superbikes.
Pointed down my favorite bendy road - unsupervised and without any LEO's of course.
With a cold beer at the end to celebrate my survival.
:-)
G
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"Driveways" , and dogs , and deer , and the constabulary , that's why we want to know about real racing vehicles on actual race tracks . A full on Mini Cooper on a race track , or a McLaren MK 6 with a big old snorting aluminum big block Chevy making enough torque to pull trees down . A 50 CC Derbi gp bike or Joey's RSV 750 Honda .
I would be hard pressed to choose between Jay Springsteen's championship winning XR 750 on a well groomed 1/2 mile , and any of Ago's Agustas at someplace like Monza , or one of Nixon's framers VS an ex-Hailwood anything .
Dusty
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I think this would be fascinating to ride at the Isle of Man.
(https://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/suzuki-rk67.jpg)
14 speed, 50cc, 17.5 hp at 17,500 rpm. 128 lbs (considerably less than my own weight) and a top speed of 109 mph.
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Well, for a bike, it would have to be a 1954 Vincent Black Shadow... :thumb: :cool: :wink: :smiley:
(https://i.ibb.co/rGW5W2b/Screen-Shot-2021-03-07-at-2-34-38-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/rGW5W2b)
For a car, it would be a 1968 Ford GT40
(https://i.ibb.co/QrQS8fN/Screen-Shot-2021-03-07-at-2-35-34-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/QrQS8fN)
I would like to feel both of them at 100+mph on the straight-away!!! :bow: :thumb: :cool: :boozing: :wink:
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A TZ750 but I would probably be afraid to hit the powerband. It is supposed to be pretty much like a light switch. The car would be a Hemi Superbird.
kk
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Interesting concept.
Cars, I wouldn't mind a drive of a 1927 or thereabouts 4.5 litre blown Bentley.
Bikes, bloody hell I could think of a heap.
But a well sorted Vincent Black Shadow is appealing but also the opportunity to scare myself on a Britten or a TZ 750 as mentioned earlier would be a hoot as well!
Reckon I'd need a glass or two afterwards as well.
Cheers Guzzler
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Interesting that some of you are picking twin cylinder Vinnies , motorbikes not known for being good racebikes .
Dusty
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The driveway/regular road detail is more of a metaphor, not the right way to say it but ? right now.
Watching IoM videos or another of any long closed road course means there's a lot of rehearsal to know the road to really exploit the machine without disaster. If I had the opportunity to know the road/course I was on as intimately as I know my favorite familar old roads- like lots of time spent with both machine and road or just by magic as long as this is fantasy- that would be the great experience. For a one time "here's the keys, have a fun lap or two" experience, doing it on a new road would likely be more tentative than fun.
Not that I'm a competent flat track rider or wouldn't enjoy time on a good iron or alloy XR (or one of the Ducati bevel twin flat trackers that Dennis built), but the learning curve to rememberize an oval track is fairly short in comparison...
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There are so many new sportbikes that are so beyond my capabilities, it would have to be something older, but not too old. A Honda RC30 would be a hoot.
As much as I like Italian exotica, I'm a muscle car guy at heart. + 1 Shelby Daytona coupe.
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A Honda MB5 for grins & giggles when they had racing. 2 stroke 50cc, 20,000 rpms on a go-track. :grin:
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RC166 on IOM. I don’t know much about race cars, but something on the Nurburgring on a nice day.
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Dusty mentioned of smorgasbord of many of the greats. Many would likely kill you just to get them out the pits. I suppose, I'd like to try a modern GP bike with plenty of room around me. I just might be able to make a lap or two and not kill myself.
Sure I'd like make a lap in the Indy 500. Dusty makes great points, a new Indycar, a mid 90s CART monster, or classic Offy Roadster? Or perhaps an Indy winner or famous racer? Mears Pennzoil Car? Foyt Bowes Seal Fast? Louie Meyer Miller? Jim Clark's Lotus Ford cammer?
How about a Daytona Coupe? 250 GTO? GT40? 906? 917? 935/6? Ferrari P4? 962? Toyota Hybrid? Or the Foyt/Gurney MK4? Fangio 300SL? Moss 300SL? D-type Jag?
F1 250F Maserati? Fangio 250F? Ferrari f1? Lotus F1? Or Jim Clark's Lotus? Mario's Lotus 77? 1992 Mclaren Honda (Senna or Prost)? Gurney's Spa Eagle? H-16 BRM?
Bonneville Mickey Thompson Challenger? Breedlove's Spirit of America? Garlitt's Fueller? Prudhomme's? Ronnie Sox 'Cuda? Grumpy's Toy?
Mclaren? Chaparral? Donohue 917? Shadow?
Hailwood 6 cyl Honda 250? TZ750? MV 500GP? Robert's GP? Roberts AMA? Norton Manx? Surtees Manx? XR-750? Scotty Parker 750? Foggy Ducati? Lawson Kawasaki? Lawson GP Yamaha? Lawson GP Honda? Schwanz GP Suzuki?
Steve MCQueen Triumph? Malcolm Smith Husky? Brabek's Honda? Ricky Carmichael's Suzuki?
Richard Petty Plymouth Hemi? David Pearson's Mercury? Cale's Chevy? Jr Jhn's Holly Farms #3? Fireball's Pontiac? Earnhardt #3? Gordon #24? Gordon Pepsi Midget? Sammy Swindell's Outlaw car? Swindell's Chilibowl?
A car or THE car? A bike or THE bike?
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I'd like to go to the drag strip
(https://i.ibb.co/5vVjNRp/DBEC9-F09-8-C6-A-44-CA-9-C3-C-054-D8-AE6-C493.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5vVjNRp)
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(https://i.ibb.co/TtXfb0T/B35-D45-AB-D32-C-46-C9-9306-19-F91-CFC68-CA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TtXfb0T)
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I’d like to run a Super Stock Dodge up Pikes Peak a few times. https://www.allpar.com/threads/kevin-wesley-talks-pikes-peak-race-cars-aftermarket-support-plans.235972/
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Hailwood's Honda 250/6
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Well, for a bike, it would have to be a 1954 Vincent Black Shadow... :thumb: :cool: :wink: :smiley:
(https://i.ibb.co/rGW5W2b/Screen-Shot-2021-03-07-at-2-34-38-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/rGW5W2b)
For a car, it would be a 1968 Ford GT40
(https://i.ibb.co/QrQS8fN/Screen-Shot-2021-03-07-at-2-35-34-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/QrQS8fN)
I would like to feel both of them at 100+mph on the straight-away!!! :bow: :thumb: :cool: :boozing: :wink:
Yes, Ditto that!! You saved me looking for pictures!! Im not sure im fitting in a GT40 though... but if I dont, Ill make it a Cobra..
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Kinda surprised no one has mentioned a sprint car . Maybe they are just too brutal :shocked: :grin:
Dusty
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motorcycle: Velocette Thruxton 500
auto: Cobra
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If I could pretend to be able to have my dream run on my dream equipment, it would not be motorized on pavement.
Give me 2,000 feet of vertical open couloir filled with 3 feet of Utah powder and a set of heavy duty telemark ski equipment.
OR
Just give me a get out of jail free card...then I can have fun anywhere.
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Kinda surprised no one has mentioned a sprint car . Maybe they are just too brutal :shocked: :grin:
Dusty
Maybe they don't like low level flying. :evil:
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A TZ250 on the big track at Willow Springs!
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Bike AJS 7R or Norton Manx at Mount Panorama/ Bathurst. For cars , a Carrera 2.7 RS at the Targa Florio
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I'm really not a warbird kind of guy, but I sat in a Spit one time, and it ..just..felt.. right. I'd have a go at that. :grin:
I've sat in a GeeBee.. not so sure about that one. Yeah.. probably. :shocked:
That said, I've had some really good times in the Pitts S1S that Ed the Rocket Scientist (RIP) and I built.
I've had as much fun as a guy can have on the street with the Mighty Scura in the California Canyons.
Life has been good to me.
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Was at Lake Geneva (WI) some time ago and got to sit in a 109..ugh to cramped and weird, and the gear (only a paved strip there at the time), no thanks. to scary.
But...
A Spit MK 9 was in attendance and I was offered a go so traded crates for a bit of fun...
Felt like Walter Mitty in that one for sure. A few cheek sagging turns in trail and a VERY sweaty landing..one for the log book for sure! (45 min!)
:-)++
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and the gear (only a paved strip there at the time), no thanks. to scary.
But...
I think I remember :rolleyes: reading that more 109s were written off on landing accidents than combat. (!)
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From Chuck:
That said, I've had some really good times in the Pitts S1S that Ed the Rocket Scientist (RIP) and I built.
Agree, a Pitts is more fun and exciting than a barrel full of monkeys.
GliderJohn
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Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear... If I could, I'd ride my old 200 Metralla again on the back road from Bloomington to Spencer, Indiana. I did it plenty of times THEN, and figured I'd always be able to do it... Sigh. I've never gone faster, smoother.
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Car: The best sounding car of all-time: The Jaguar D Type.
(https://i.ibb.co/WWqbMPF/vehicle-ad-standard-image-6a34b5d6b814a09c6f95e3d76a6b3a94.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WWqbMPF)
Motorcycle: The actual VTR1000SP2 (RC51) that Edwards rode at Laguna.
(https://i.ibb.co/9sRjLvV/f19d369597493d60eae91c00817ffb2e.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9sRjLvV)
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That's an easy question to answer. You can keep your cars and airplanes--not interested. There are lots of bikes I'd enjoy on a Walter Mitty dream scenario, but the absolute ultimate is obvious:
Mike Hailwood's 1978 Ducati 900. Race prepped with modern tires and brake pads.
Since we are dreaming, make the track be the Isle of Man, but I want it cleared of all pedestrians, wandering cows, gravel in roadway, and the like.
Mike lapped it at 109.97 mph. I'm not Mike the Bike, so my more modest goal would be to simply break 100 mph.
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A few laps around the Ulster circuit on one of Joey Dunlop's V Four Hondas would be fun .
Dusty
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From Smith Swede:
Since we are dreaming, make the track be the Isle of Man, but I want it cleared of all pedestrians, wandering cows, gravel in roadway, and the like.
Mike lapped it at 109.97 mph. I'm not Mike the Bike, so my more modest goal would be to simply break 100 mph.
Oh yea! I would love to do it on my T-3 and average 70mph. It would even be great fun to do it on a rented scooter at 35mph. Just want to see what it is really like.
GliderJohn
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How about a SR71 blasting all the coffee cups off Fidel’s table with sonic booms under the leadership of president Reagon. Or laying trails of sonic booms up and down North Korea when Kim was hosting some event. nothing they could do about it. The Air Force kept strict constraints on the pilots but Uncle Ronnie knew how to use it.
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From John A:
How about a SR71 blasting all the coffee cups off Fidel’s table with sonic booms under the leadership of president Reagon. Or laying trails of sonic booms up and down North Korea when Kim was hosting some event. nothing they could do about it. The Air Force kept strict constraints on the pilots but Uncle Ronnie knew how to use it.
From what I have read about flying the SR 71 and comments from my primary glider instructor who flew F-104s and 106s in the late 50s through the 60s the planes themselves and navigating were such a handful you never really had much time to enjoy flying them.
GliderJohn
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How about a SR71 blasting all the coffee cups off Fidel’s table with sonic booms under the leadership of president Reagon. Or laying trails of sonic booms up and down North Korea when Kim was hosting some event. nothing they could do about it. The Air Force kept strict constraints on the pilots but Uncle Ronnie knew how to use it.
Good one. I heard a story of an SR71 flaming out over Chicago and it was dead sticked to Edwards. True? Don't know. But was told by someone that should know who just briefed on it at the time.
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Good one. I heard a story of an SR71 flaming out over Chicago and it was dead sticked to Edwards. True? Don't know. But was told by someone that should know who just briefed on it at the time.
FWIW
Untrue...
m
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FWIW
Untrue...
m
ok
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FWIW
Untrue...
m
Sorry John I got interrupted before I could explain.
The SR has two engines and in pilot jargon "dead stick" means that both engines failed which in that case the aircraft would come down very quickly and most likely have had to make an off airport landing. This would result in loss of the aircraft and the pilot if he remained with the machine to impact. High wing loaded aircraft have very high landing speeds so survival in that case would have been in question(hence ejection seats).
The SR pilots would, if they lost both engines, most likely try and pick open ground and then eject probably not under 5,000 feet (above the ground.)
I don't believe there was ever a double engine flame out in the history of the SR 71 ops. They did lose one due to an engine failure while at mach III and the aircraft turned sideways and disintegrated over ID I think. The back seat guy was killed but the pilot survived as he was thrown clear.
This event cause a change in the engine management system and never was repeated.
If they had lost only one engine over ORD the aircraft would have been able to continue at a slower speed and it would have most likely landed at the nearest military base along its flight path.
:-)
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This may not be an answer to the original question.
I would like to get on a track or IOM following a very experienced racer. We'd start slow for a few laps to get my confidence up and then get to, or nearly to his race speed.
Tom
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a 1950's Formula 1 car like what Juan Fangio drove...
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"pocketa-pocketa-pocketa"
Something I've often heard in my mind when dreaming of a new caper...when I was a kid.
The ultimate day dreamer.
Air races '33 in a Grandville Gee Bee Model R Super Sportster.
:-)
I dunno about that. As I understand the history of the GeeBee racer, every one that the Granville brothers built crashed and killed its pilot. At the Bradley Air Museum, there were plans to build a replica but constructed of mild steel tubing so that it could never get a certificate of airworthiness, and be flown. Don't know if the project ever went forward.
Larry
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A ride or two down the strip in a AA fuel altered roadster would do it for me. At the old CT Dragway in Colchester, CT I saw Wild Willy Borshe drive his '23 T Altered in the 9's with Willy driving one handed. Yikes!
A bike? Rollie Free's Vincent at Bonneville. I would wear more than shorts...
Larry
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I went to the Connecticut Dragway one Sunday to watch match races between Dave Strictler and his Dodge against Bill Lawton Tasca Ford Fairlane. Bill won the best of 3. Meanwhile Wild Bill Flynn of Yankee Peddler Dodge was running in the eliminations. He was turning better times than the stars. He was driving an altered wheelbase superstock, before they became Funny Cars. I love to take a turn at the wheel in one of those.
kk
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I dunno about that. As I understand the history of the GeeBee racer, every one that the Granville brothers built crashed and killed its pilot. At the Bradley Air Museum, there were plans to build a replica but constructed of mild steel tubing so that it could never get a certificate of airworthiness, and be flown. Don't know if the project ever went forward.
Larry
Not exactly true, but several were written off. Jimmy Doolittle (maybe the USA's finest pilot) had no problem with it.
Interesting early air racing stuff here:
http://www.donhollway.com/doolittle-geebee/
Luckily, Doolittle didn’t plan to go slow, not with “Granny’s Built-In Tail Wind” behind him. Six times he roared through the speed trap, this time claiming a maximum of 309.040 mph and averaging a world-record 296.287 mph. “I could have shoved the ship up to five miles an hour faster,” he claimed afterward, “but I didn’t let it out to the full extent. It was made for Russell Boardman, who has his heart set on making the world’s record, and he can give the ship all it’s got after he recovers from his accident.”
To show you how rapidly aviation has matured, I've met Jimmy Doolittle. :shocked: Long story involving Matty Laird and Ed the Rocket Scientist. (RIP)
Oh, and Delmar Benjamin did air show routines for several years with an R2. He said you just had to keep the speed up because of aileron reversal at the stall. (!!)
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To show you how rapidly aviation has matured, I've met Jimmy Doolittle. :shocked:
Wow. That’s pretty neat Chuck. What was Eddie Rickenbacker like in person? :whip2:
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As much as it might be nostalgic to drive old iron around a road course I would get too frustrated. A modern minivan could prolly keep up with the 60-70s super cars on a road course. I would love to take a ‘19 Corvette ZR1 out and flog the ever loving crap out of it on Road Atlanta. I used to race in SCCA and always daydreamed about being able to to race a C5R.
Bikes I’m slower than cars. Just give me an older Busa with no electronic nannies and a track day to burn up a set of tires. I know it’s more of a porky GT bike but that would suit me. A Panigale would be wasted on me so i don’t bother daydreaming about that, aside to poke some depreciating fun at myself. It would be fun to run a bike at Barber.
Again, old bikes look cool but bad suspension, brakes, and frames just make me daydream about being frustrated at having to brake earlier and accelerate slower than modern bikes.
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Sorry John I got interrupted before I could explain.
The SR has two engines and in pilot jargon "dead stick" means that both engines failed which in that case the aircraft would come down very quickly and most likely have had to make an off airport landing. This would result in loss of the aircraft and the pilot if he remained with the machine to impact. High wing loaded aircraft have very high landing speeds so survival in that case would have been in question(hence ejection seats).
The SR pilots would, if they lost both engines, most likely try and pick open ground and then eject probably not under 5,000 feet (above the ground.)
I don't believe there was ever a double engine flame out in the history of the SR 71 ops. They did lose one due to an engine failure while at mach III and the aircraft turned sideways and disintegrated over ID I think. The back seat guy was killed but the pilot survived as he was thrown clear.
This event cause a change in the engine management system and never was repeated.
If they had lost only one engine over ORD the aircraft would have been able to continue at a slower speed and it would have most likely landed at the nearest military base along its flight path.
:-)
Actually, that had crossed my mind after I read your response.
It also made me try to remember a conversation 40 years ago. I think the words were "a flameout" meaning a single engine. I think that you are exactly right and my memory embellished the facts. Thanks for putting things in perspective.
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As much as it might be nostalgic to drive old iron around a road course I would get too frustrated. A modern minivan could prolly keep up with the 60-70s super cars on a road course. I would love to take a ‘19 Corvette ZR1 out and flog the ever loving crap out of it on Road Atlanta. I used to race in SCCA and always daydreamed about being able to to race a C5R.
Bikes I’m slower than cars. Just give me an older Busa with no electronic nannies and a track day to burn up a set of tires. I know it’s more of a porky GT bike but that would suit me. A Panigale would be wasted on me so i don’t bother daydreaming about that, aside to poke some depreciating fun at myself. It would be fun to run a bike at Barber.
Again, old bikes look cool but bad suspension, brakes, and frames just make me daydream about being frustrated at having to brake earlier and accelerate slower than modern bikes.
Funny story. A few years ago I did a track day with the Corvette club at the local sheriff's track. I had previously done a couple of track days there on my motorcycle. Before I took the 'vette out, the club wanted me to take lap with "Racer Ron". He was in his early 80's and drove Corvette C6 ZR1 (638HP supercharged).
He hit that thing with launch control and I was screaming like a little girl. He asked if I wanted another lap and I said "no".
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We watched a very talented driver execute a HOWLING lap around the street circuit used the one year AHRMA ran a national in Park City driving a 1963 Cooper f2 car . It was stunning to watch , and slightly startling to see a 37 year old formula car generate the kind of speed on display . Seriously , that's the kind of thing that gets my blood pumping , 4 wheel drifting every corner , the 1,500 CC Climax Ford turning 9.000 RPM's thru an open exhaust . I want to drive a real race car , something designed on a clean sheet of paper to be a scalpel capable of carving up a road course .
Of course the cockpit of that Cooper is probably a bit small to accommodate me these days , but still ...
Dusty
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We watched a very talented driver execute a HOWLING lap around the street circuit used the one year AHRMA ran a national in Park City driving a 1963 Cooper f2 car . It was stunning to watch , and slightly startling to see a 37 year old formula car generate the kind of speed on display . Seriously , that's the kind of thing that gets my blood pumping , 4 wheel drifting every corner , the 1,500 CC Climax Ford turning 9.000 RPM's thru an open exhaust . I want to drive a real race car , something designed on a clean sheet of paper to be a scalpel capable of carving up a road course .
Of course the cockpit of that Cooper is probably a bit small to accommodate me these days , but still ...
Dusty
Perhaps a "Rocket" might appeal Dusty
https://youtu.be/iQPIBFz1ZJo (https://youtu.be/iQPIBFz1ZJo)
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He said you just had to keep the speed up because of aileron reversal at the stall. (!!)
The aileron does not “reverse” at the point of stall.
It’s just that the down going aileron is increasing it’s AoA and becoming more deeply stalled. So instead of creating more lift, it’s creating less.
So left stick, which moves the right aileron down should produce a left roll, but the stalling right aileron and the unstallng left one, causes the right wing to descend...(right roll..).
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"The aileron does not “reverse” at the point of stall."
So.. if you were in a left stick condition trying to recover from a stall and the aircraft rolled to the ..right.. instead,
How would you describe what happened?
:-)
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The aileron does not “reverse” at the point of stall.
It’s just that the down going aileron is increasing it’s AoA and becoming more deeply stalled. So instead of creating more lift, it’s creating less.
So left stick, which moves the right aileron down should produce a left roll, but the stalling right aileron and the unstallng left one, causes the right wing to descend...(right roll..).
Uhh, semantics. Delmar went up high on the first flight and explored slow flight/stalls. As long as he kept the speed up, it flew nicely.
Of course the aileron never moved..but no doubt this caused several crashes. I decided that when I flew one :grin: I'd keep glide speed well above 100..
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This....
(https://i.ibb.co/HHN25GF/le-mans-icon-ford-gt40-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HHN25GF)
or this.....(https://i.ibb.co/BsTxcmT/bd715dbc79bac0fd1fdcfa1c538cd3e1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BsTxcmT)
or this.....(https://i.ibb.co/M6pQrtM/Rc472e7ce3e36ef4523cc3e03ae978a37.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M6pQrtM)
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"The aileron does not “reverse” at the point of stall."
So.. if you were in a left stick condition trying to recover from a stall and the aircraft rolled to the ..right.. instead,
How would you describe what happened?
:-)
I wouldn’t describe anything.
I’d lower the nose to unstall the wing and resume coordinated flight.
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I wouldn’t describe anything.
I’d lower the nose to unstall the wing and resume coordinated flight.
Not if you were flaring to land.. or worse yet, on short final.
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Not if you were flaring to land.. or worse yet, on short final.
:thumb:
The GB needed to be about 4 to 5 feet longer. They were thinking min wetted area not flying qualities, but then they had Doolittle for that!
:-)
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Not if you were flaring to land.. or worse yet, on short final.
Well in that case Chuck, I would be forced to wonder why I was not carrying an adequate margin of airspeed above the stall when on approach.
Perhaps I failed to allow for the wind gradient..?
Acted like a dick and raised the nose to reach the threshold ?
Did not clear obstacles by minimum 50’ to allow for a lowering of the nose to maintain airspeed then an application of power to restore the glide slope.
If I ever run out of energy on final, I’ll tell y’all what happened and why, if I survive..(but it hasn’t happened yet..)
BTW..That includes 2,000 hours in gliders where there is limited scope to restore an undershoot.
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If I ever run out of energy on final, I’ll tell y’all what happened and why, if I survive..(but it hasn’t happened yet..)
BTW..That includes 2,000 hours in gliders where there is limited scope to restore an undershoot.
Huzo, a Gee Bee is about as far from a glider as you can get. Early pilots got one chance to fly one.. and if *you didn't know* about roll reversal near the stall..
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Huzo, a Gee Bee is about as far from a glider as you can get. Early pilots got one chance to fly one.. and if *you didn't know* about roll reversal near the stall..
Perhaps it has no washout in the wing to keep the tips flying as the stall moves outward. Either way, why would you want to fly something so inherently flawed.
Last time I checked, a down going aileron in unstalled flight, increases lift as it is deflected. If deflecting it downward has the opposite effect, then it is stalling.
As a builder, you will know that the washout in the wing is there so the root stalls first and as the AoA is increased, the stalled portion of the wing moves spanwise so you will feel the buffeting, but the aileron will maintain some authority.
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If you screw up this thread ...capeesh ?
Dusty
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Ok then..
Probably what Nathan Millward did on the CT110 was as Mitty like as you’d likely find, an outlandish flight of fancy.
With scant regard for consequences and stubborn refusal to be swayed by popular opinion, he launched into an ocean of unknowns... :bow: :thumb:
In terms of thought process, not a lot different than Bert Hinkler, Amy Johnson, Francis Chichester , Jesse Martin and the like..
Nathan’s life wasn’t on the line such as the foregoing, but not allowing his mental vision to be crushed by cold reality, is a good example of the esoteric nature of the thought processes of these types.
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Not that I normally spend time thinking about such things... :rolleyes: But since you asked, it would have to be a 1962 Ferrari GTO and Road America (only 50 miles from the house) would be just fine.
Now, does anyone have Nick Mason's contact info?
(https://i.ibb.co/BKPm37H/Screenshot-2016-05-16-15-39-33.png) (https://ibb.co/BKPm37H)
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Not that I normally spend time thinking about such things... :rolleyes: But since you asked, it would have to be a 1962 Ferrari GTO and Road America (only 50 miles from the house) would be just fine.
Now, does anyone have Nick Mason's contact info?
(https://i.ibb.co/BKPm37H/Screenshot-2016-05-16-15-39-33.png) (https://ibb.co/BKPm37H)
OH MY , yes !
Dusty
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If you screw up this thread ...capeesh ?
Dusty
Dusty, I just wonder if you flew your flying saucer like a BeeGee and crashed here? :shocked:
Anyway, we're all lucky you're here regardless of how you came to earth. :grin:
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Any Jaguar D-type or Steve McQueen's Jaguar XKSS.
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flew your flying saucer like a BeeGee
Were they into flying as well as music ?
“Stayin’ Alive” would not be easy in one of those...
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Were they into flying as well as music ?
“Stayin’ Alive” would not be easy in one of those...
I agree, it sounds difficult to fly. But the song is a great disco.
Not sure I want to see anyone on this board to dance though. Well maybe Dusty but no chaps please. :embarrassed:
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I agree, it sounds difficult to fly. But the song is a great disco.
Not sure I want to see anyone on this board to dance though. Well maybe Dusty but no chaps please. :embarrassed:
What in the wide wide world of sports is goin' on here ?
Dusty
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(https://i.ibb.co/tP1sSFG/Screen-Shot-2021-03-12-at-8-16-43-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/tP1sSFG)
special font copy paste (https://usefulwebtool.com/)
I have been thinking about a response to this for days as there are so many wonderful possibilities. But i would be quite happy with this:
Motorcycle: Chuck's Lario on the Isle on Mann TT course.
Auto: At my age this on a tight curvy closed circuit course. See picture.
Aircraft: Oh my this is hard. But for pure fun a totally clean ( all military hardware stripped out) Douglas A-4 Skyhawk.
GliderJohn
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What in the wide wide world of sports is goin' on here ?
Dusty
Wide World of Sports- Too funny..
We used to watch ABC Wide world of Sports when we went to my grandparents on the weekends.. We only had one channel (CBS) but they had cable.
When ABC wide world of sports came on, my grandfather would say "watch this- this f------- dumbass. He falls off the the same f----- ski jump every fu-----. week. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AZH4FeGsc (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AZH4FeGsc) What a fu---- idiot! If you're that fu------ stupid when you grow up, ,I'm gonna kick you right in the a-- every time you do it... ".
Me and my brother would be laughing like crazy. My mother and grandmother would be telling him to quit swearing around us. He would be telling them to shut the he-- up up because we needed to be real men, not just another dumbass like that guy who couldn't even ski right when he was on tv on the same ski jump very single week.
Great memories. Must be sad to be a PC kid nowadays...
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Dusty, I just wonder if you flew your flying saucer like a BeeGee and crashed here? :shocked:
Anyway, we're all lucky you're here regardless of how you came to earth. :grin:
Dusty, the gag was Low Ryter asked if you flew your saucer like a Bee Gee.
A BeeGee is one third of an enormously popular trio of ex pat Poms, who came to Oz and made a fortune in music.
A GeeBee is an ugly as sin inherently dangerous aircraft.
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(https://i.ibb.co/tP1sSFG/Screen-Shot-2021-03-12-at-8-16-43-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/tP1sSFG)
special font copy paste (https://usefulwebtool.com/)
I have been thinking about a response to this for days as there are so many wonderful possibilities. But i would be quite happy with this:
Motorcycle: Chuck's Lario on the Isle on Mann TT course.
Auto: At my age this on a tight curvy closed circuit course. See picture.
Aircraft: Oh my this is hard. But for pure fun a totally clean ( all military hardware stripped out) Douglas A-4 Skyhawk.
GliderJohn
I had a chance to drive a Lotus Super 7 around Hallett Motor Speedway a number of years ago. It was during a vintage weekend. There was a drive around for the public at lunch behind a pace car. The owner of the car took a little bit longer getting me strapped in so I ended up going out about half a lap behind everyone else in the parade. (That was kind of by design) So I got to catch up with the field. It was a lot of fun and a very strange experience sitting practically on top of the rear axle. I would love to get to drive one of those around a race track for a few hours and get up to a decent speed.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2b/8b/7f/2b8b7f4ad2af88f6203810c9036033f1--lotus--super.jpg)
As far as a motorcycle, I still think I would like to spend some quality time on one of these.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1FLXEA4I43g/ThwiQjwJZ3I/AAAAAAAAB4g/4RHKr3iyqNg/s400/02071190ssSpecial%252520%25287%2529.jpg)
I have ridden 850 Lemans and 750 Laverda SFCs and a boat load of Japanese Ricky bikes, but never a 900 SS.
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Wide World of Sports- Too funny..
We used to watch ABC Wide world of Sports when we went to my grandparents on the weekends.. We only had one channel (CBS) but they had cable.
When ABC wide world of sports came on, my grandfather would say "watch this- this f------- dumbass. He falls off the the same f----- ski jump every fu-----. week. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AZH4FeGsc (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AZH4FeGsc) What a fu---- idiot! If you're that fu------ stupid when you grow up, ,I'm gonna kick you right in the a-- every time you do it... ".
Me and my brother would be laughing like crazy. My mother and grandmother would be telling him to quit swearing around us. He would be telling them to shut the he-- up up because we needed to be real men, not just another dumbass like that guy who couldn't even ski right when he was on tv on the same ski jump very single week.
Great memories. Must be sad to be a PC kid nowadays...
Hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing reading this. :grin:
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For a plane, just for sheer joy, it would have to be a Hawker Fury with that fantastic Kestrel V12, all silver painted just like the 1930s Hendon display ones. From the carefree days of the RAF before WW2.....
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How about nitro Harley drag racing. https://youtu.be/o2ejPDv7YUw
These guys were having some trouble with their tuneup
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The Wall of Death would do it for me.
I think coming down off the wall, would be more challenging than going up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H4jUptw4Vk