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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: blackbuell on March 10, 2021, 06:55:44 AM
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I'm on my second Norge, current one is an '07, have put a total of 90 K miles on the them. I have other bikes, but I prefer the Norge for the several very long rides I take each year, including a few across the USA Great Plains to the western states. When I'm on the Norge I actually don't mind riding on interstates in order to get where I want to focus my riding. The Norge is great for the highway; smooth, comfortable at 80 mph; for me the air flow at speed is fine. When I get to my destinations, the Norge handles twisty roads admirably.
Here is the issue: I'm now 72 YO and not a large person. Fully loaded, especially 2-up, the Norge is getting hard for me to handle.
I'm considering lighter weight touring replacements for the Norge, including a 2021 V85tt travel. Is this bike a suitable replacement? Is it significantly lighter? Can it handle running all day long at 80 mph? Is it smooth at high speed? What about air flow at speed? Can it handle 2-up duty?
I do have a BMW F800GT, which does most of these things well, but it is a bit boring, and it does buzz at speeds over 75 mph. I don't enjoy taking it on cross country rides.
Your feedback is appreciated,
Jon
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For a touring bike that will run 80 mph 2 up, the Norge is not large. To get something much smaller you need to go to an 800. My suggestion is to lower the Norge. Shorter shock, pull up the forks and a low seat. You'll find it much more managable.
Mike
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Calling Huzo! He has currently has both the Norge and V85. I am sure he will chime in soon.
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There is quite a thread over on ADV about the Norge and its pluses and minuses. Pity Moto Guzzi never updated it with cruise control. I'm afraid I've gotten spoiled by it for longer rides.
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The V85 will do 80 all day long. It can handle two-up no problem. I don't have any experience doing two-up at 80 all day long though.
Mine is smooth at that speed. My biggest complaint is the seat is a little less than comfortable after 2 or 300 miles, but that is most seats for me. This bike is more comfortable than my Ducati MTS1200 was.
It will not have the visceral grunt that the Norge has. I'm still getting used to the torque curve of the small block- needs higher revs than the big blocks.
I'm 5'10" or 11" if I stretch, 32 inseam and I can flat-foot it no problem. It is light enough for me to push around the garage.
A lot of folks go on about how great the big tank is. Frankly, I want to take a break long before I need gas. But it is nice not to have to fill up every hundred miles.
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From Motorbike:
Pity Moto Guzzi never updated it with cruise control. I'm afraid I've gotten spoiled by it for longer rides.
Ideally it would be nice, especially here on the plaines. Good thing however is the the throttle is so light that just resting ones hand on the throttle is all it takes to hold speed. I still use the throttle screw thing on my T-3 throttle when going distances on straight roads.
GliderJohn
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I can't attest to the prowess of the Norge but as a Breva and V85 owner I think I can get close.
Yes the V85 will do 80 mph on the Interstate all day but if I am planning a trip with that as my criteria I would choose the my Breva. Both of them are near equals on the two-lane roads and twisty stuff but, of course, when the pavement ends the V85 really shines.
Truth be told, I am planning a cross country trip in early summer and haven't decided on which bike I am going to take yet. I will be going from the Front Range of Colorado to the East Coast which means a full day of brain damaging Great Plains riding but at this moment I would grab either bike depending on which one is closer to the door I guess.
Skippy
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Calling Huzo! He has currently has both the Norge and V85. I am sure he will chime in soon.
My impression of the two are..
The V85 CAN do 80 mph “all day”..
But the Norge “wants to” do 80 mph “all day..”
The relatively high seat of the V85, catches me out more than does the perceived heaviness of the Norge. A useful analogy that I think applies, the V85 feels like a performance six versus an old school V8. Naturally though if the trail bike was 1151 cc then it would be a fairer comparison.
I don’t think the new V85 owner will benefit much from the new bike due to lightness, but it is more nimble.
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Blackbuell, we are in almost identical positions. The exception is I have and do own both. I have ridden across the USA and back across Canada on my '13 Norge GT8V. Many trips down to the Blue Ridge and back on both the Norge and the V85TT. I bought both in Charlotte. I do not ride two up but sometimes the bikes are loaded for extended rides. I recently contacted Enzo at Cadre Cycle and ordered a '21 Travel but have changed to a Centenario. I just had the Norge out and it is sooooo slow steering and heavy compared to the V85TT. I really like the bike and it has been with me a long time, but I am contemplating trading it or selling it and just using the V85TT. I have only done trips of about 800mi on the V85TT but it seems to do the job well. The biggest factor is when you get to the destination and want to take the gravel roads it is far superior to the Norge. The Norge can be frightening ( or at least the "roads" I have taken it on.) We have a very steep, long gravel driveway and I always figure I will eat it there. Because of getting to ride many bikes the Norge only has 12K on it, but sadly, the time may have come to lighten up. I sold my Stelvio for the same reason. I love the V85TT and got one of the first ones that came to the USA. I am sure the new one will not disappoint when it is in a couple weeks from now. Good luck with your decision but I think I am going with having only the V85TT.
I forgot to add that the Norge will maintain a much higher speed on the interstates, (sometimes higher than the speed limit (hypothetically)).
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Any modern Guzzi will happily run all day at 80, two up!
I have a B1100 and it’s great, handling for what I consider a big bike is fantastic.
But I have found I enjoy riding my v9 Roamer more. It’s not quite as quick, but definitely punches above its weight. And with an upgraded suspension I gave it, it handles pretty good. It’s less weight and feels great to ride, short or cross states with ease. I’m sure the v85 is at least as good!
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One thing also .......... IMHO there is nothing like those big blocks and if your like me and I'm sure other M/G enthusiasts those ride by wire generations that we all inherited with all the mode riding that appears to be the norm now :sad: feels nothing like the throttle body management of the older machines.
There's something very disconnecting about all of those ride by wire systems.
Ciao
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feels nothing like the throttle body management of the older machines.
There's something very disconnecting about all of those ride by wire systems.
Ciao
Absolutely !
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yep. Agreed.
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Which Guzzi are rbw?
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I may stand to be corrected but I think the 1400 generations were the first and anything there after.
Ciao
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I believe the easiest way to determine whether or not any manufacturers machine is ride by wire is if it has any ride modes offered.
Ciao
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I don’t think ride modes actually have anything to do with rbw. Modes are variable computer fueling maps, rbw is electronic operation of the throttle, instead of a traditional cable.
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AFAIK the Cali 1400 and the V85 are the only true RBW Guzzis. Pete used to say something about the throttle body on the 1TB models being not a direct connection, maybe the ECM has the ability to vary the relationship between the throttle butterfly and the cables on those.
Chad, although the modes don't HAVE to be found only on RBW models my anecdotal observation is they are usually found only on RBW models, and to some extent the same is often said for TC.
I think the reasons are the same.
The driving modes are often at least partially accomplished by varying the relationship between the throttle and the throttle body. I.E. in rain setting for instance the throttle response is dampened and you turn the throttle more to achieve the same result.
Early TC systems used to just retard the timing to prevent wheel slip, but I think most modern ones use the throttle. Same thing, in order to accomplish that they have to be RBW because they will close the throttle without forcing your hand to rotate.
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Thx for that gentlemen.
:thumb:
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Makes sense. So newer v7 and v9 have rider modes but do not have rbw.
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Ive not long owned a V85tt travel and not put many miles on it as we have strict - restrictions about travel here in the UK, I do find the V85TT heavy at a stand still but once moving it's great fun to ride and handles the curves as a true Italian motorcycle should, I bought the bike for a two up trip to Mandello de lario for the 100th event as I think my Cali Vintage would be too heavy for a long trip. I would suggest taking a test ride for at least an hour before you commit, If you do buy 85TT and decide to have the centre stand fitted, I suggest you get the dealership to fit it, It took two of us over an hour to fit it and a lot of bad language
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>snip< If you do buy 85TT and decide to have the centre stand fitted, I suggest you get the dealership to fit it, It took two of us over an hour to fit it and a lot of bad language
+1 on the center stand (which is very easy to use) and also consider engine guards if/when that full-tank, high CG gets away from you. Several folks are mounting some sort of splash guard or a Caponord fender to control the front wheel spray.
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I am fortunate to have both the Norge and a new V85TT Travel. Love them both...they can do 80 all day...but I like the way Huzo put it...the Norge wants to do 80 :) Norge is certainly for me a more comfy road touring machine and acts like it...if you are cruising at 75 and need to pass or accelerate it has plenty left to give...hands down more than the TT... the electric wind shield is a very nice feature and I find myself using it more often than I thought I would. That said while I'll take the Norge on a gravel road I have to pay much more attention...the TT eats it up and it so at home on hard gravel and hard dirt...Michigan has 120,000 miles of paved roads and nearly 3 times as many gravel roads...This was one of the premier reasons I bought the TT... to safely and comfortably travel the gravel back roads where most folks don't travel.
It really depends on what kind of riding you'll be doing...if it's all paved roads....the Norge wins...if it's a mix then the TT wins...IMHO
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I am fortunate to have both the Norge and a new V85TT Travel. Love them both...they can do 80 all day...but I like the way Huzo put it...the Norge wants to do 80 :) Norge is certainly for me a more comfy road touring machine and acts like it...if you are cruising at 75 and need to pass or accelerate it has plenty left to give...hands down more than the TT... the electric wind shield is a very nice feature and I find myself using it more often than I thought I would. That said while I'll take the Norge on a gravel road I have to pay much more attention...the TT eats it up and it so at home on hard gravel and hard dirt...Michigan has 120,000 miles of paved roads and nearly 3 times as many gravel roads...This was one of the premier reasons I bought the TT... to safely and comfortably travel the gravel back roads where most folks don't travel.
It really depends on what kind of riding you'll be doing...if it's all paved roads....the Norge wins...if it's a mix then the TT wins...IMHO
Jeez, that sounds pretty damn right everywhere... :thumb:
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Makes sense. So newer v7 and v9 have rider modes but do not have rbw.
Afaik at least up to 2020 the V7/V9 had TC, but no rider modes.
Did they add rider modes to the new 2021 models?!?
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I am fortunate to have both the Norge and a new V85TT Travel. Love them both...they can do 80 all day...but I like the way Huzo put it...the Norge wants to do 80 :) Norge is certainly for me a more comfy road touring machine and acts like it...if you are cruising at 75 and need to pass or accelerate it has plenty left to give...hands down more than the TT... the electric wind shield is a very nice feature and I find myself using it more often than I thought I would. That said while I'll take the Norge on a gravel road I have to pay much more attention...the TT eats it up and it so at home on hard gravel and hard dirt...Michigan has 120,000 miles of paved roads and nearly 3 times as many gravel roads...This was one of the premier reasons I bought the TT... to safely and comfortably travel the gravel back roads where most folks don't travel.
It really depends on what kind of riding you'll be doing...if it's all paved roads....the Norge wins...if it's a mix then the TT wins...IMHO
:thumb: Just placed a deposit on an 85, Alaska has its share of crappy roads too! Never liked squirming around on the Norge , it does shine when traveling south though.
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Maybe I’m confused as t what a rider mode is? V9 have always had three modes, 0 being tc disengaged, 1 tc on for normal conditions, 2 for rain and slippery conditions.
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Maybe I’m confused as t what a rider mode is? V9 have always had three modes, 0 being tc disengaged, 1 tc on for normal conditions, 2 for rain and slippery conditions.
Ahhh yes, that's the traction control. I was talking about the variable mapping for the fuel and ignition systems (rain, touring, sport).
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I think you would have to ride the V85tt 2 up and see if it would work.
My wife quit riding on the back of my Norge about 2 years ago. She prefers the sidecar.
Riding solo, I am still very happy with the Norge.
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I'm on my second Norge, current one is an '07, have put a total of 90 K miles on the them. I have other bikes, but I prefer the Norge for the several very long rides I take each year, including a few across the USA Great Plains to the western states. When I'm on the Norge I actually don't mind riding on interstates in order to get where I want to focus my riding. The Norge is great for the highway; smooth, comfortable at 80 mph; for me the air flow at speed is fine. When I get to my destinations, the Norge handles twisty roads admirably.
Here is the issue: I'm now 72 YO and not a large person. Fully loaded, especially 2-up, the Norge is getting hard for me to handle.
I'm considering lighter weight touring replacements for the Norge, including a 2021 V85tt travel. Is this bike a suitable replacement? Is it significantly lighter? Can it handle running all day long at 80 mph? Is it smooth at high speed? What about air flow at speed? Can it handle 2-up duty?
I do have a BMW F800GT, which does most of these things well, but it is a bit boring, and it does buzz at speeds over 75 mph. I don't enjoy taking it on cross country rides.
Your feedback is appreciated,
Jon
Hey Jon, glad to hear you are doing well and still putting in the miles. My opinion, which almost nobody agrees with around here anymore, and from my brief test ride on a V85TT, is that it would be a stretch for it to do the kind of miles and 2-up work for AS MUCH as you do, this in comparison to the Norge. From what I recall you are quite a safe rider and such, not a power mad squid, but I also recall maybe a Blackbird in your not too recent past :grin: I wouldn’t say the V85 is under powered but even your 800 has significantly more pull. Load it up with another person, along with the heavy boxes and such, well, I just think the Norge is a better horse all around for that kind of thing. With your Norge, I assume you’re already using soft luggage and such? Over the years I’ve been able to significantly reduce weight on a specific bike with aftermarket exhaust, totally dry roll bags, even lithium ion battery in the warmer months. Small changes add up. I’m sure you’d like to stay with Guzzi, but if you can’t get the Norge on a diet, there are a only a zillion other bikes out there from other brands that would fill this void. If you like your 800 but not the buzz, I too did not like the buzz on the 800 when I test rode a couple of them in the past, I will tell you that the new F900XR - a semi faired upright bike in similar manner to the Norge - didn’t have that buzz and I was really pleased with a recent short ride on one. It too can do 200 plus miles on a single tank.
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Hey Jon, glad to hear you are doing well and still putting in the miles. My opinion, which almost nobody agrees with around here anymore, and from my brief test ride on a V85TT, is that it would be a stretch for it to do the kind of miles and 2-up work for AS MUCH as you do, this in comparison to the Norge. From what I recall you are quite a safe rider and such, not a power mad squid, but I also recall maybe a Blackbird in your not too recent past :grin: I wouldn’t say the V85 is under powered but even your 800 has significantly more pull. Load it up with another person, along with the heavy boxes and such, well, I just think the Norge is a better horse all around for that kind of thing. With your Norge, I assume you’re already using soft luggage and such? Over the years I’ve been able to significantly reduce weight on a specific bike with aftermarket exhaust, totally dry roll bags, even lithium ion battery in the warmer months. Small changes add up. I’m sure you’d like to stay with Guzzi, but if you can’t get the Norge on a diet, there are a only a zillion other bikes out there from other brands that would fill this void. If you like your 800 but not the buzz, I too did not like the buzz on the 800 when I test rode a couple of them in the past, I will tell you that the new F900XR - a semi faired upright bike in similar manner to the Norge - didn’t have that buzz and I was really pleased with a recent short ride on one. It too can do 200 plus miles on a single tank.
I agree in principle with your assertion that the ‘85 would be hard at work two up loaded in some situations.
In an ideal world in a straight cruise then yes,
But when you pull out to pass a line of cars up hill into the wind and someone pops out of the dip coming towards you, the absence of real authority will raise it’s head.