Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tom on July 02, 2021, 05:27:06 PM
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I'm looking at buying a F650. Any input. Rode one the 2nd year they were out. Had a low mileage one to beat-up on in the Alps & Dolomites. Like any chain bike, I'll look at the sprockets. The bike has 58K miles on it, comes with a spare F650 Dakar for parts or/can run. Ones a 2007 & the other is a 2008. The current owner says that he doesn't have time for projects. Any thoughts?
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Even uglier than a Quota. Cant you find a DR650 with less miles?
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No. I'll be using them for Riders Share. They're in decent shape at a good price.
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Bought a 2001 new for my son. Had repetitive issues with the water pump. The pump shaft is only supported at one end so it wobbles and wears the seals. Expect replacement every 25K or so. Not a bad job, just a nuisance. Don't forget to burp air out of the cylinder head after the job. Seems there was an Internet forum for this bike. Chain Gang maybe??? The chain drive is continuous with no master link. So the rear end and swing arm have to be disassembled to replace the chain. Was a brilliant bike. Outrun my Guzzi EV in the mountains and get 65mpg doing it.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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I'll check them out. :thumb:
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I have an 07' and my son has an 01'. Ugliest bike I have, and sounds like a box of rocks. We both agree they are the most fun bikes we have owned, and I've had many. I like the easy handling, leg room, and the ability to go places my road bikes cannot. No real mechanical problems (30K+), had to replace the cush drive rubbers $$. It would be one of the last bikes I'd sell.
Bill N.
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BMW confuses everyone with that name. Are you talking about the 2 cylinder or 1 cylinder model?
I just traded a Triumph Street Triple for a single cylinder 1999 BMW F650 Funduro. I really like the bike, but have only put a few thousand miles on it. Don’t miss the Triumph.
I’ve also owned a BMW F800S, which is the Rotax 2 cylinder. I have very mixed views about that bike. Happy to go into more details if you are looking at the 2 cylinder F650.
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The chain drive is continuous with no master link. So the rear end and swing arm have to be disassembled to replace the chain.
I’m sure there was once a time you couldn’t buy a chain breaker and riveting tool for $15 on Amazon, or just go to Harbor Freight. But that time isn’t now :wink:
The original Funduros were built by Aprilia using their then customary Rotax engines. They were pretty durable but like most Aprilias they were fiddly to work on, and toss-away bikes when they did get old. BMW redesigned them in house and pulled production from Aprilia in around 2000, adding fuel injection, and those bikes IIRC had some driveability problems. I think in the end the engines were made in Taiwan or someplace. I knew a BMW mechanic who rode an F650GS to work for a long time and it was pretty reliable but today you wouldn’t want to pay more than a pittance for any of them.
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My bud had the single cylinder 650. Broke down all the time. Cooling system sucked even after dealer rebuild. he threw it off a cliff. Seriously.
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https://vermont.craigslist.org/mcy/d/saint-albans-2003-bmw-f650cs-under-6000/7344380396.html
(https://i.ibb.co/R9hPBk1/D35381-D9-9-E87-45-D1-861-F-DCD694-E6-FFD1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R9hPBk1)
(https://i.ibb.co/q1dZ7L7/BE2654-FB-8184-4-B7-B-A82-A-6-CF6300227-FD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q1dZ7L7)
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https://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/d/portsmouth-2010-bmw-f650-gs/7344165920.html
(https://i.ibb.co/KNQJZPg/415-FB7-D6-71-EA-453-C-BA7-B-7-A8-EAD4-C8-E4-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KNQJZPg)
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https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/mcy/d/east-elmhurst-2003-bmw-f650-gs-like-new/7342946700.html
(https://i.ibb.co/zJgf5P9/4-D1-CA8-B3-56-E6-49-E3-BEC4-1-C5-B1-BF8-A54-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zJgf5P9)
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https://providence.craigslist.org/mcy/d/providence-bmw-funduro-f650/7338810954.html
(https://i.ibb.co/1JwhzRd/BC80-D942-772-B-4-D5-E-A8-F1-D5-CAA33-A31-F5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1JwhzRd)
(https://i.ibb.co/LJxPngF/7-E9858-B9-B7-AE-4-E28-B81-F-9-D90-B446-C8-B4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LJxPngF)
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And a $1495 blue one….
https://baltimore.craigslist.org/mcd/d/annapolis-junction-1999-bmw-f650/7336398617.html
(https://i.ibb.co/JtDPdfv/553-C7355-712-C-4-C65-A949-1-FCF7-EC2-F2-DD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JtDPdfv)
(https://i.ibb.co/9GLpZsJ/8-CCC36-CB-488-A-4091-B5-CC-B97-E14935696.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9GLpZsJ)
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Thanks Chuck. I'm looking at local ones on the Big Island of Hawaii. These would refurbished for use as mules for Riders Share. Anything from the East Coast would add about $1500 for shipping. From the West Coast, it would be about $600. https://www.riders-share.com
Purely capitalistic interest. I have a low mileage Cal III that has earn it's way for the Pacific Moto Guzzi Refuge too. :wink:
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My friend Blaine has had two of his Funduros self-immolate, triggered by the regulator/rectifer and it's location.
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What year were they?
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BMW confuses everyone with that name. Are you talking about the 2 cylinder or 1 cylinder model?
I just traded a Triumph Street Triple for a single cylinder 1999 BMW F650 Funduro. I really like the bike, but have only put a few thousand miles on it. Don’t miss the Triumph.
I’ve also owned a BMW F800S, which is the Rotax 2 cylinder. I have very mixed views about that bike. Happy to go into more details if you are looking at the 2 cylinder F650.
[/quote
The BMW Motorcycle Press intro to the F800S & ST was on the Big Island of Hawaii. Got to ride both models and beat up on them to break them in.
F650 single.
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What year were they?
Blaine's Funduros? I'm not sure. Both were red. Maybe that was the problem. :grin:
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I have a '99 Aprilia-built Funduro with (now) about 28,000 miles. It's been nearly trouble-free (at about 26,000 miles the voltage regulator failed and boiled the battery dry). I like everything about the bike except the tinny/raspy exhaust note.
Normal maintenance is a piece of cake. Over the past year I've replaced the coolant, bled the brakes, refreshed the fork oil and replaced chain and sprockets. All easy straightforward jobs. At 24,000 miles I had an independent BMW shop adjust the valves (fiddly bucket-and-shim system with not much room to work in the frame) and of course there was an oil change with that job. It has two carburetors feeding four valves and they've needed no attention except an idle-speed adjustment every couple of years, done with a remote knob so you don't even have to take off any bodywork. Rear-suspension preload is via a simple knob.
Replacing the endless chain without removing the swingarm is easily resolved with a chain-breaker or even an angle-grinder with cutting wheel. I replaced it with a DID o-ring chain with clip-link.
The bike is fully capable of highway speeds but it is a single and while the engine seems happy at 6000 rpm, I'm not. It makes decent torque beginning at about 3500 rpm. I ride mountain twisties and keep up with bigger ADV bikes except on steep uphills. Let 10 psi out of the tires and it's fully capable on Forest Service roads and gravel.
The bike is light enough that we slung it on the back of the van for our honeymoon trip, and Gail was comfortable riding pillion on the Coast Range back roads.
Most versatile bike I have and far more practical in terms of weight and maintainability than bigger ADV bikes.
Lots of expert technical advice at https://www.f650.com/ The Clymer manual is great, too.
(https://i.ibb.co/L1RyFSq/Irwin-Lake.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L1RyFSq)
Also eight minutes of two-up fun in the Trinity Alps https://youtu.be/5QwMzfWFpeE (https://youtu.be/5QwMzfWFpeE)
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Bought a 2001 new for my son. Had repetitive issues with the water pump. The pump shaft is only supported at one end so it wobbles and wears the seals. Expect replacement every 25K or so. Not a bad job, just a nuisance. Don't forget to burp air out of the cylinder head after the job. Seems there was an Internet forum for this bike. Chain Gang maybe??? The chain drive is continuous with no master link. So the rear end and swing arm have to be disassembled to replace the chain. Was a brilliant bike. Outrun my Guzzi EV in the mountains and get 65mpg doing it.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Or when the times comes use a chain with master link in it? The EK screw type master links are a dogsend. No plate or rivet tool . A 10mm wrench is all you need.
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Or when the times comes use a chain with master link in it? The EK screw type master links are a dogsend. No plate or rivet tool . A 10mm wrench is all you need.
Is "dogsend" anything like "the cat's meow?"
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There is a lot of info on the “chain gang” forum. http://www.f650.com/
From reading that forum, the only weak spots appear to be the voltage regulator, water pump, and steering head bearings.
My bike already had the regulator moved from its stock location under the seat to outside side panel where it can be in the breeze. I’m not worried about it.
The water pumps seem to fail prematurely; like around 30K miles. But the parts are about $50. You could just replace them every 3 years and avoid the worry.
The steering head gets hot due to its proximity to the frame which contains hot engine oil (dry sump motor). The solution seems to be to use high temp wheel bearing grease.
I like my Funduro but haven’t owned it long enough to have a detailed opinion.
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Blaine's Funduros? I'm not sure. Both were red. Maybe that was the problem. :grin:
It seems that way. He also has a white one that has not gone up like a Roman Candle.
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BMW confuses everyone with that name. Are you talking about the 2 cylinder or 1 cylinder model?
I’ve also owned a BMW F800S, which is the Rotax 2 cylinder. I have very mixed views about that bike. Happy to go into more details if you are looking at the 2 cylinder F650.
SmithSwede, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on the two cylinder BMW. A friend has one of the two cylinder F650's. I rode it and liked it, but the usual BMW OEM excess complication does not appeal to me.
Same with another friend's single cylinder F650. Nice bikes, only down side (IMO) is it is a bit more complicated than it needs to be.
It would be interesting to do a 150 mile loop on both bikes back to back on the same day.
But then again, I am biased by stone axe Suzuki DR 650's. 1996 technology.
thanks in advance.
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Ed:
Mine is a 2007 BMW F800S, the one with the half fairing. I put about 55,000 miles on mine. Handling was pretty good. The gas mileage was incredibly good. Motor was torquey.
But I got tired of the complexity and lack of durability.
By far the worst fault was the ABS. It was overly sensitive and would deny you the brakes going over moderately bumpy roads or on gravel. That bike made me hate ABS, which I admit is probably irrational.
At least the early bikes had bad anti-theft antennas. That stranded me twice when my own bike would not recognize my brand new key. It annoyed me that the BMW dealer said it was impossible to override this “feature.”
Occasionally the engine would just cut out and die almost instantly when taking off at low speed. Not often. But just often enough to catch you unawares and try to dump you if you were turning or trying to go uphill.
The drive belts only last about 20K miles. And the failure mode is sudden—if just starts popping and shedding teeth. The bearings in the rear drive also failed at 20K.
The alternator overheats from lack of cooling oil, regularly goes out around 25K.
For whatever reason, the front brakes would develop a terrible low speed pulsation after about 5,000 miles on new pads. Replacing the rotors did not help. Maybe this is because the front disk don’t float on those caliper buttons, so the alignment has to be perfect, which doesn’t last long.
The parallel twin engine was somewhat annoying with the buzzing. Which I could tolerate, except that it was especially bad at 75 mph, a normal cruising speed in Texas.
The valve cover gasket always weeped oil. Even the “new and improved” gasket did not fix the weeping.
I didn’t like the fuel tank being behind me on the frame, with the opening on the side. I like to ride up to the gas pump and fill the tank without dismounting. The side tank forces you to dismount.
The seat funneled water into the underside where it collected into a rubber cover for the fuel pump. That cover held this large amount of water next to the electrical connectors. Stupid design.
The “distance till empty” counter was not calibrated right. I once ran out of gas out in the country on a Sunday, since several gas stations were closed. I’ll never forget it telling me I had 15 miles till empty. Engine then dies. Then gauge says zero miles.
I know this is nit-picky, but I hate, hate, hated the ice warning. A red light would flash at 32 degrees or lower to warn you of potential ice hazards. Well, I’m perfectly aware that it’s really cold and I’m riding a motorcycle in the winter. I don’t need a little red light flashing a message at me that I’m stupid.
Around 45K miles the engine got noticeably more rattly. Maybe loose cam chain tensioner, but these engines also were know for premature piston slap. About that time I decided this bike wasn’t going to get me to 100K or beyond.
I’ve been much happier with my Guzzi V7.
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Same with another friend's single cylinder F650. Nice bikes, only down side (IMO) is it is a bit more complicated than it needs to be.
But then again, I am biased by stone axe Suzuki DR 650's. 1996 technology.
I totally agree. What I do not like about the Funduro is that (a) it is water cooled and (b) it is known to have a somewhat weak water pump design.
Huh? Engine cooling is mission critical.
It’s a single cylinder engine. Just air cool it.
I looked hard at the Suzuki. Would probably have bought one had I not stumbled across the Funduro. And I may one day kick myself for buying BMW complexity and water cooling rather than the stone ax simple air-cooled design of the DR650.
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Great description of the F800S, also an Aprilia design although I believe made in Berlin. They handle well but as described the ABS was incredibly, shockingly bad and vibration a bit problematic.
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I totally agree. What I do not like about the Funduro is that (a) it is water cooled and (b) it is known to have a somewhat weak water pump design.
Huh? Engine cooling is mission critical.
It’s a single cylinder engine. Just air cool it.
I looked hard at the Suzuki. Would probably have bought one had I not stumbled across the Funduro. And I may one day kick myself for buying BMW complexity and water cooling rather than the stone ax simple air-cooled design of the DR650.
Thanks SmithSwede for opinions on all of the above. As long as the output is less than "high performance," say 100 hp/liter. Air cooling is fine, but water cooling is here forever due to emissions. I have read that emissions are the reason the existing big singles are not updated regularly, supposedly current designs are grandfathered into the EPA, but new designs have to meet the latest standards.
Hence, no fuel injection on the DR 650 while the smaller Suzuki 250 which is air cooled has FI. Plus big fires are more difficult to clean up than little fires.
I was a machine designer/tool designer for decades. Mechanical design always reminded me of a statement I think was attributed to Thomas Jefferson: "I had to write you a long letter because I did not have enough time to write you a short letter." and another quote: "The greatest artist is the simplifier!"
Rushed designs, designs by the inexperienced designers, and designs by committee, are always overly complex. Simplicity is the result of a lot of thought, effort, time, and often experience.
If you ever want to ride some horrible roads in VA, including the infamously ugly Blue Ridge Mountains, shoot me a PM. If you happen to be bikeless, no worries, I got at least two road legal bikes.
Complexity reduces the charm of my KTM Duke 690, and I have thought about selling it once in a while, but 70 hp, torque everywhere, and 360 lbs wet are attributes that transport one back to "the stupid days of youth" at the crack of the throttle!!
How much is that worth? I haven't been able to put a number on it! :grin:
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Relative to the above the friend with the two cylinder F650 had a 2011 I think. One or two years before BMW came out with the two cylinder, 800cc F700.
The single cylinder F650 was a 2003 if I remember. Helping this friend change a spark plug was an experience. With the DR the only thing you disconnect/remove is the spark plug wires (two)......
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Thanks Ed. I’ll take you up on that offer!
We are in total agreement as to design simplicity. I guess that’s a powerful reason why I like the little Guzzi. The genius that went in to making it simple yet capable. And sure, various trade-offs are involved, but each one represents an intelligent decision and I’m ok with all of them. For example, air-cooling but only 50 horsepower? I’m ok with that. Etc.
This also relates to machine beauty.
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Expanding on my feelings for the '99 Funduro, changing the plugs is a PIA, but it's a once-a-year winter maintenance item. Other than the ignition, no electronics to go bad -- I love that. No ABS, no "security" fob, no cruise control, no rider modes. Nothing on this bike I can't fix myself if necessary. Just like my Tontis and Trumpet.
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I keep looking at getting another big signal after owning a KLR a few years back, I have been leaning towards a DR650 but the odd thing is the BMW’s can be had for less money around here.
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I keep looking at getting another big signal after owning a KLR a few years back, I have been leaning towards a DR650 but the odd thing is the BMW’s can be had for less money around here.
Absolutely true Steven. DR650's hold their value better than most of the other Japanese bikes. Tough to find one bellow $3500 that looks like it hasn't been dragged down the road by a truck. Since the owners tend to be older, know what they want in a bike, and work on it themselves, very few of the used DR650's have been dragged down the road by a truck. Not that much of an investment new, so often the sellers are not very motivated to sell. Why sell when I still like the bike and it is as reliable as an anvil?
Add in the fact that the bike is essentially unchanged since 1996 means you can find any used part or farkle you can imagine. So the pike becomes "yours" and it is therefor harder to "let go!" Simplicity adds to the enjoyment of tinkering, so that is a feature, not a problem.
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Thanks Ed. I’ll take you up on that offer!
We are in total agreement as to design simplicity. I guess that’s a powerful reason why I like the little Guzzi. The genius that went in to making it simple yet capable. And sure, various trade-offs are involved, but each one represents an intelligent decision and I’m ok with all of them. For example, air-cooling but only 50 horsepower? I’m ok with that. Etc.
This also relates to machine beauty.
C'mon up anytime. I'll show you a plethora of 25 hp roads. Doesn't matter if you have 25 hp or 200 hp, you'll be traveling those roads at the same pace...
Oddly enough the KTM 690 as a time machine is only partially effective. Whenever I start really romping on it, I soon come to the realization that either my brain was smaller in the good ole days, or my balls are smaller now....... or both! :wink:
Jumping into the other thread of the 3 new MG models, I suspect 425cc cylinders may be about the limit to meet the current Euro emissions standards without radical redesign. IE: water cooling and/or four valves per cylinder. Performance is easy, but emissions are both a design constraint and requirement.