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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: moto on July 05, 2021, 01:27:24 PM
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One thing that struck me in reading the 1975 Motociclismo test of the T3* was its report that in the summer of 1971 Lino Tonti, Moto Guzzi's chief of engineering since 1967, was "involved in a pileup" on Italy’s major motorway, the Autostrada del Sole, while riding a V7 Sport. The result, according to the article, was the integral braking system. But I suspect the accident had a more general effect on Guzzi development in the transition from the V7 Sport, to the 850T, and then to the T3 and beyond.
"Involved" in a pileup probably means "crashed." What would have happened to the V7 Sport Tonti was riding, and in fact had designed? I would guess he locked the front wheel and took a spill on one of the engine heads, while also scraping something up toward the rear.
Tonti, then age 50, was not a timid rider. He told Greg Field that he had been a development rider on all the bikes he had designed, which were many and included racers. He famously had his broken leg set in the riding position so he could still do testing on the prototype V7 after an earlier crash. He wouldn't have passed off the accident as a poor rider's error. Instead, he decided that he needed a better motorcycle, even for experienced and brave riders like himself.
He had experimented with mechanically linked brakes in the 1950's, but this came to nothing. Now he started on the development of a hydraulic system, showing a prototype V7 Sport 850cc variant with such brakes later the very same year.
He also got to work on other modifications. The 850T introduced non-folding foot pegs attached to substantial steel arms that could bend before the frame would bend. The folding foot pegs of the V7 Sport were needed for the track but would now be abandoned. The 850T also got standard crash bars to protect the engine. When the T3 was introduced the valve covers had been reduced in size so the crash bars would better protect them. And of course the linked brakes were finally ready.
One of the best photos in the Motociclismo article appears to show the T3 flying through the air after a wipeout in a front-brake-only test on wet pavement. But looking closer I think it is skidding on the foot peg and the crash bar, just as Tonti must have intended.
(https://i.ibb.co/yBjFcMw/snippet.png) (https://ibb.co/yBjFcMw)
[EDIT: Looking at the photo a little longer I now suspect it was staged. It's just too perfect, and too easily staged. The bike is still up on the peg and crash bar, the point I wanted to emphasize, however.]
The T3 looks a lot like the V7 Sport, but it's less likely to crash and a safer crasher if it does.
Just idle speculation, but the revised Guzzi seems to have been intended to protect even the best riders, not just "Harley guys who like to use the rear brake," as some have said. (Not here, of course. :wink:)
Moto
*https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=111281.0 (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=111281.0)
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Tks for sharing that window in Lino Tonti's world;
After working on my Spine Frame bike, I've gained an appreciation for the beautiful flowing design of the Tonti Frames.
The man was a mechanical genius, nice to read about some of the history behind the bikes in my garage.
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Just a brief update to the original post from July.
I confirmed that my T3 comes to rest on its foot peg and the crash bar when dropped on its side from a stopped position! The crash bar may have lost a tiny patch of chrome (ca. 1x3mm). The foot peg rubber was undamaged but the steel arm supporting the foot peg was pushed back against the frame by a half inch, as designed by Tonti. This stopped the rear brake pedal from being used until I fixed things up good-as-new with a crowbar. Nothing else hit the ground. It was just as in the seemingly staged photo above.
I was lucky enough to make this test because of my newly mid-mounted kick stand. It requires you to lean the bike to the right to deploy or retract it, and I had failed to notice how much the concrete sloped away to the right where I stopped to fill up. The added 5 gallons of gas made things unexpectedly worse when I put the stand up to leave. This feature of the mid-mounted stand has been noted before. Watch out for it if you make the modification. I've resolved to go back to my old way of fueling by holding the bike between my legs.
Moto
EDIT: I just rechecked my (brand new) muffler and found it unmarked. However, I did find new scuffing on the end of the right-side center stand tang. This is one of two simple steel bars that stick out from the stand on either side. On the left side this tang is used to lower the stand with your toe, but I could never understand why there was a similar tang on the right, until now. The tang is another protection against damage in low-speed tip overs, in this case for the muffler! Wonders never cease.
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T3s are great bikes also t5s.I tested the limits of a slow speed semi u turn with my Stelvio today in my driveway.The crash bars and aluminum bag and foot peg supported the bike with 0 damage.My pride took a hit when I attempted to pick it up however and had to call my sons to stand it up.
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Being new to Guzzis and having freshly rebuilt linked brakes on my v50 and G5, I can say that I simply love them. I tried some hard stops the other day on the G5 both with and without the front brake and it really does haul the bike down quickly and without fuss. Not in the same league as a modern ABS equipped bike, but respectable for its time.
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I read that T3 test in the Motociclismo magazine many times. In fact, I still have that magazine.
The test took place at the Pirelli racetrack specifically to test the "Integrated Brake System" on a wet track. A technician from Brembo "disintegrated" the brakes to show what happens when the wheels lock up.
You can tell that, at least that shot is staged, as the rider appears to raise his legs as in a physical therapy pose.
That said, I almost had a similar experience on my SP many years ago, when, coming to a busy intersection located in the middle of a curve, I applied the the rear brake (no front) with the bike leaning left and turning to avoid being t-boned by a crossing car. The integrated brakes did it job with neither of the wheels locking up. With only millimeters to spare between me and the car, I managed to clear the intersection without a crash.
One of the best features Guzzi ever put on, at least on the touring models.
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I did some experimenting with hard braking after reading the article and was very impressed. The rear wheel lost traction first, as designed, in every experiment. I used to employ all three disks routinely (using the hand and foot levers), but have now trained myself to rely on the foot lever alone except when stopping very hard from highway speeds (or above). This is clearly what Guzzi intended, given the comments and demonstrations in the article. It is absolutely a reliable and effective system for emergency braking.
Moto