Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: elvisboy77 on July 06, 2021, 10:55:20 AM
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How many of our readers have had an inner tube fail, WITHOUT a specific puncture like a nail? Just wondering what the difference in failure rates is for tubes vs tubeless tires. If anyone has some statistics I would love to see them.
Thanks in advance.
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I have never had a failure.
I went tubeless on my spoke wheels. Sealed spokes with 3M marine epoxy 3 years ago. Tires have held pressure since then perfectly. Virtually 0 psi leakage. Need new tires now.
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I’ve never had a tube failure other than a couple issues with the valve stems a couple times over the decades.
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Once.
Shop "tech" installed front-wheel tube wrong on Stornello.
Bill
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I have rode somewhere around 120,000 miles tube tires with no failures and only two flats. Have rode about 22,000 on tubeless, no failures but four flats.
GliderJohn
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One failure in the 70's, tube came apart all the around on some kind of seam. 74 Yamaha 400 twin road bike. Flat instantly and a death grip ride to the shoulder. I was not able to patch that one. I must have had dozens of flats on the enduros and all of them were punctures or pinches with no tube failures of any sort on them.
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The inner tube on my wheelbarrow wheel failed about a year ago, I just got around to replacing it.
Just got old I guess; as for my bikes, they're all tubeless, including my 40 year old LM2.
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I've always had tubes in my tires for 50 years of riding and have had 2 puntures with hiway type bikes. And 2 on offroad 70s dirt bike. Never a catastrophic failure-----Yet.
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Other than the odd puncture, I have only had one where it failed at a seam, drove about 40 miles of rough road, stopped at a local watering hole for a cold one and a bag of ice to go, came out to stow the ice and noticed the rear tyre was flat, talk about a good place for a failure! The autopsy showed a seam failure, I dont know how old the tube may have been as it was a new unit to me. DonG
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On a BMW in the late 90s and a Harley in 2007, both were punctures. Never a failure on its own. I replace the tube with each tire change so no chance to get old and dry rot.
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Had the spring fail on the schrader valve. So not enough centripetal force and it would only leak when riding at speed. Replaced with a new tube while on the trip and brought the 'failed' tube home. Confounding. Figured it out after that possibility was mentioned (on WG I think). No punctures in 60k+ miles, two-up.
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elvisboy, none of us blame the inner tube. The problem is what has to happen after the puncture is discovered. If there's a tube in the tire, the wheel has to come off the motorcycle. The tire bead has to be broken, the punctured tube removed and the reason for the puncture found, the tube replaced or patched, the tire reinflated and the wheel reinstalled in the bike. Even if you have a centerstand and a saddlebag full of tools, that's a difficult procedure by the side of the road.
If the tire is tubeless, and you have a repair kit with CO2, you can usually repair the puncture with the wheel in place, reinflate the tire and ride off into the sunset.
Many of us rode tires with tubes in them for decades, just as we took long trips without cellphones. We just don't want to do it any longer.
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I used to fish the valve stem through the rim with a small phillips head screwdriver. Back in 1993 I was installing a new front tire on my race bike, dropped the screwdriver and thought it rolled under a bench. Forgot about it. Sold that race bike in 1994, bought it back in 2017. Went to change the front tire and discovered this. No failure. Over a season of racing on it like this.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51295714664_7db4bdd0c9_b.jpg)
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I used to fish the valve stem through the rim with a small phillips head screwdriver. Back in 1993 I was installing a new front tire on my race bike, dropped the screwdriver and thought it rolled under a bench. Forgot about it. Sold that race bike in 1994, bought it back in 2017. Went to change the front tire and discovered this. No failure. Over a season of racing on it like this.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51295714664_7db4bdd0c9_b.jpg)
Stupendous story and pic! :grin:
Bill
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My experience with motorcycle tires and tubes has been pretty good. I had one tire installed by a shop that had a slow leak. I assume something happened when they installed it. It was never bad enough to be a hazard but it was bad enough to be annoying. I'd have to fill the tire with air on a somewhat regular basis.
Airplane tires and tubes are another story. I've seen a lot of them go bad with no puncture. The common theme of all the failures I've seen was a heavy airplane and underinflated tires. I expect that the same thing could potentially happen on a motorcycle; I've always been pretty careful to maintain adequate tire pressure with the hope that it will help keep me from having a similar failure.
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elvisboy, none of us blame the inner tube. The problem is what has to happen after the puncture is discovered. If there's a tube in the tire, the wheel has to come off the motorcycle. The tire bead has to be broken, the punctured tube removed and the reason for the puncture found, the tube replaced or patched, the tire reinflated and the wheel reinstalled in the bike. Even if you have a centerstand and a saddlebag full of tools, that's a difficult procedure by the side of the road.
If the tire is tubeless, and you have a repair kit with CO2, you can usually repair the puncture with the wheel in place, reinflate the tire and ride off into the sunset.
Many of us rode tires with tubes in them for decades, just as we took long trips without cellphones. We just don't want to do it any longer.
Thanks for the explanation, I know the difference in repair, obviously if you have a tube and have to replace it you have to remove the wheel (you would not have to to patch it, however, in theory).
I was more curious about the experiences of folks or if there was any published difference between the two, but thanks for your reply.
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The only tube failure I've seen , without an actual puncture , have been when the tube was installed and it had rolled
over on itself and brought to full inflation and run like this , sometimes for a few years . Then the rolled lip would
eventually rub through and bingo , flat tire . Obvious by the heavy crease at failure point ! Peter
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I had tire go flat on a /2 BMW meeting a ride group at a coffee shop. Went to take off and it was going down fast. Buddy loaned me a Ducati Scrambler from his garage for the weekend ride.
Turned out to be that the tube was folded onto itself somehow by the installer Had been like that for 3 years. Assume part of it was trapped in the bead. The fold-marks resembled a banana. The w Eventually rubbed its way through a thin spot. Was glad it happened while I was having a cup of coffee vs. the highway.
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Plenty of flats due to obvious causes like nails or thorns. Never had another kind of failure.
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Only one flat in a tube-type tire in 68 years. 1955 Norton 500 twin picked up a nail in the front tire at City Island, NY in 1956. Pushed it at least a mile to a gas station, bought a pack of Camel patches, pulled wheel and tire, patched tube and rode home to the Bronx, NYC.
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Back in the 2000's I had a honda XR650R mostly set up as supermoto geared to do 110mph. no mater what tire i had on it it would consistantly pop tubes. with or without rimlock tube or tubless tire(with tube). was a real c**nt to change too. most failures were @ valve stem but some were pinch or puncture, god I wish i still had that bike! odd....that i think i have never owned a street bike with tubes till now! (exept ct90..dont count!)
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I don't know how many miles I have on tubes -- since 1970, maybe 300,000 (6000 per year?). Picked up a nail and flattened a Conti rear tire once in 1975, I think. Other than that, no issues whatsoever.
I've had worse luck with tubeless tires on my cars. Maybe half a dozen tires destroyed by road hazards over 55 years.
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In 250,000 miles about 6 flats.
Most caused by screws or nails. One possible failure about 60 miles after a new set of tyres, a 12 inch tear in the tube, possibly caused by pinching the tube when fitting and inflating but I could not find any obvious marks other than a gaping big hole. I did give it a though inspection as it made my life quite exciting from 80 mph until i got it stopped. Rear tyre thankfully.
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I hit a bump on a servo entry once and got a flat, when the tube was changed, the sticky label was still on the tube and the glue had perished the tube. The bump must have hit right on the label to crack the tube.
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The only tube failure I've seen , without an actual puncture , have been when the tube was installed and it had rolled
over on itself and brought to full inflation and run like this , sometimes for a few years . Then the rolled lip would
eventually rub through and bingo , flat tire . Obvious by the heavy crease at failure point ! Peter
Yep. A few years back we bought a local used bike with recently replaced tires. We were on a Nova Scotia trip later that summer when all of a sudden I saw Doug swerve hard to the right, then to the left and down in an instant. We were so lucky it was fairly early in the morning with little traffic, and it had been raining so the wet road allowed him to slide to a stop without rolling and tumbling, unlike the bike that caught and flipped. The front tire had come off the rim, and later inspection revealed a long crease in the tube where it had been folded over and worn thru. Bingo is right.
Sarah
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Yep. A few years back we bought a local used bike with recently replaced tires. We were on a Nova Scotia trip later that summer when all of a sudden I saw Doug swerve hard to the right, then to the left and down in an instant. We were so lucky it was fairly early in the morning with little traffic, and it had been raining so the wet road allowed him to slide to a stop without rolling and tumbling, unlike the bike that caught and flipped. The front tire had come off the rim, and later inspection revealed a long crease in the tube where it had been folded over and worn thru. Bingo is right.
Sarah
Hi Sarah,
This is Joe, the V7 rider you met at the NH National.
I've always had tube tires and only had one flat, but I change my tires and tubes frequently. Well before they wear out. The flat was a slow leak, that was solved w a can of Threebond Seal-n-Air that I carry. The can inflated the tire, and I was good for the weekend rally, and the ride back home!
This didn't happen at this year's NH rally, but at a Berkshire rally years ago.
(https://i.ibb.co/2ycp3ds/Threebond-Seal-n-Air-750x750.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2ycp3ds)
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Hey there, Joe! That sealant looks like good stuff. I used Ride-On in my tires when I had the Nevada, I'd read good things about it here. But I go for tubeless tires when I can.
Sarah
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Decades ago, I had an inner tube fail. Where they seal the tube to itself, to make it a complete circle, it just came apart. To make matters worse, the patches that I carried, where a bit old, and the glue failed. So my roadside patch didn't hold for long.
So if you carry patches, replace them occasionally.
I recently had a tube fail when I replaced a tire. I got a bit wild pulling the valve stem through the rim and ripped the tube. But that was operator error.
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Sarah,
I use Slime tire sealant, off and on, mainly in the rear tire (it's what's available locally). Thanks for the reminder to put some in.
Joe
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I use Slime tire sealant, off and on, mainly in the rear tire (it's what's available locally). Thanks for the reminder to put some in.
Joe
Have you noticed any balance issues?
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Have you noticed any balance issues?
I haven't. It's a liquid, so I imagine it spreads itself uniformly.
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I buy Michelin tubes which are pretty thick and Slime. The last time I had a tube leak was about 20 years ago before using Slime and even then I made it home with the use can of sealant. Never had balance issues with Slime, just take it for a ride after filling the tube.
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I probably have close to 250,000 miles on tubed tires. I have had only two flats. One was on a scooter, just threw the spare on and continued on my way. The other was on my R75/5 close to home, I heard the tire getting noisy so I turned around and got it home before it went completely flat. When I bought my R75/5 the dealer told me that BMW used tubes made from natural rubber as they resisted tearing as opposed to synethic rubber. Any truth to this? I have never had a tube failure.
kk
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One failure "rapid-air-out" as I was pulling on to the Blue Ridge Parkway from an overlook, so I was able to get stopped w/out incident. Was two-up on my Eldo. Problem turned out to be broken wires in the tire sidewall gouging a hole in the tube. Must have hit something HARD to damage the tire sidewall internally. Don't remember an incident, so don't know how long it took to puncture the tube.
Was riding w/a small group on the way to the New Cumberland WVa rally years ago. One of the bikes (Cali III I think) developed a flat rear tire, fortunately near a country store w/a compressor. . We had a group to help, so we were able to lay the bike over & hold it to pull the rear wheel, found culprit (nail, screw don't remember) pulled it out of the tire, pulled the tube, patched it & got rolling again in less than an hour. Would have been a PITA riding alone, he was 2-up & the bike was loaded for a rally weekend.
ronkom
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I have had tube failure from a pinched tube that was caught ever so slightly between the rim and the tire. Mind you, this was on my ice-racer (car), and the cornering and tire stress were pretty murderous...
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My wife was eating pistachio Hagen Daaz, sitting on the couch in the living room, and she dropped the spoon.
We cannot find it anyplace.
You guys may want to check your motorcycle's front tires.
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One failure "rapid-air-out" as I was pulling on to the Blue Ridge Parkway from an overlook, so I was able to get stopped w/out incident. Was two-up on my Eldo. Problem turned out to be broken wires in the tire sidewall gouging a hole in the tube. Must have hit something HARD to damage the tire sidewall internally. Don't remember an incident, so don't know how long it took to puncture the tube.
Was riding w/a small group on the way to the New Cumberland WVa rally years ago. One of the bikes (Cali III I think) developed a flat rear tire, fortunately near a country store w/a compressor. . We had a group to help, so we were able to lay the bike over & hold it to pull the rear wheel, found culprit (nail, screw don't remember) pulled it out of the tire, pulled the tube, patched it & got rolling again in less than an hour. Would have been a PITA riding alone, he was 2-up & the bike was loaded for a rally weekend.
ronkom
Something similar happened to me about forty years ago, but I was riding solo. I made it to a gas station, where the attendant loaned me the six inch tire irons from his moped. In taking off the wheel by myself, I dropped the bike on top of me, pinning me to the pavement.
The attendant came over and said " Would you like some assistance?"
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Only one I had was on a midsize dual sport bike. No rim guard, but a rubber button on the rim hole for it.
The button went somewhere along the way without me noticing it.
Evidently the tube rubbed there and caused a leak.
When replacing I noticed the rim strip was in place but the area around that hole was not what I would call smooth.
On the road fix so I layered a couple strips of adhesive tape from the ER kit I carry over it.
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I run Slime in the rear tire. Last tube failure was a puncture. In fact all the tube failures that I've had have been from nails/screw punctures. No seam or tube construction failures.