Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dirk_S on August 26, 2021, 07:57:08 AM
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Check it!
The website seems to be in the know, claiming it’s possibly a 120 hp water-cooled sport-tourer, which would be in line with the same claim a big-name dealer told me recently.
Looking forward to more official updates!
https://www.moto.it/news/moto-guzzi-v100-sport-tourer-motore-a-v-raffreddato-ad-acqua-120-cavalli-scoop.html (https://www.moto.it/news/moto-guzzi-v100-sport-tourer-motore-a-v-raffreddato-ad-acqua-120-cavalli-scoop.html)
(https://i.ibb.co/SndhNdk/7-A42901-C-AB8-A-4-CF6-BAB0-A8-FAB7422-DE0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SndhNdk)
I’m sure the cynics out there who have been crapping on this year’s output and MG’s future (or seemingly lack-thereof) will enjoy sitting down to give those angry little fingers a break.
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looks kinda like a Yamaha to me
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I see Breva DNA.
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Probably is a 10 year old shot of a Breva..... :evil: DonG
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1000 cc and 120hp. Looks like a similar version of my Ducati Supersport, perhaps a little heavier assuming shaft drive and more touring oriented?
Better late than never.
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On the technical side we have the news that will make the happiness of those who love the Italian eagle. The new Moto Guzzi V100 marks the birth of the new engine platform.
In fact, the transversal V-engine with liquid cooling arrives, which is necessary in view of the future anti-pollution regulations, which are increasingly severe. The Italian company looks to the future with important investments that will lead to an expansion of the offer. The new 1000 engine, which on this version could already develop a power of about 120 horsepower, will in fact be used on maxienduro models, but also sporty ones, given the important performance and low weight. And it is easy to assume that the new platform lends itself to the development of different displacements, both larger and smaller. Without obviously renouncing the shaft drive.
On the new Moto Guzzi V100 we will certainly find the most advanced electronic controls (traction, ABS, cornering), which have already been developed by the group on recent Aprilia and Moto Guzzi models.
The wait at this point is very high, but we bet there will be little to wait. Official photos were being taken today. The Moto Guzzi V100 is therefore ready and will be a star of EICMA.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
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1000 cc and 120hp. Looks like a similar version of my Ducati Supersport, perhaps a little heavier assuming shaft drive and more touring oriented?
Better late than never.
Can't wait to see this one!
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From the photo gallery pics, it looks like a left side single sided swing arm with single right side short exhaust can. Tubular handle bars, and a tidy rear end.
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Wonder if this is the same engine project?
"June 4th, 2013
The new California 1400 may be impressive, but it marks only the beginning of Moto Guzzi's return to the splendors of the past because we have just learned some very significant news: A totally new 90-degree V-Twin engine is taking shape on the computers of Chief Project Engineer Federico Martini and his assistants.
This is not a further refurbishing of the old faithful V-Twin designed in the 1960s by legendary Chief Project Engineer Giulio Cesare Carcano. No, this engine is totally new, a compact, liquid-cooled design that is said to meet tightening future emissions requirements and be immensely more powerful than anything currently coming out of the Mandello del Lario factory.
Producing possibly as much as 140 horsepower, this new 1.3-liter V-Twin will reportedly have enough grunt to bring back the myth of the Moto Guzzi Le Mans models. As on the old Honda CX500, the gearbox of Moto Guzzi's new liquid-cooled V-Twin will rotate in the opposite direction of the crankshaft to kill the torque reaction generated by any motorcycle engine with a longitudinal crank.
In contrast to the current air-cooled pushrod V-Twins (photo above), the new liquid-cooled Moto Guzzi V-Twin will be a double-overhead-cam engine with four valves per cylinder and inlet runners facing each other inside the Vee. Work is in progress, but the new liquid-cooled Moto Guzzi powerhouse is expected to be ready no earlier than 2015. Might we see this liquid-cooled motor in a new Moto Guzzi Le Mans sportbike? Stay tuned."
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Check it!
The website seems to be in the know, claiming it’s possibly a 120 hp water-cooled sport-tourer, which would be in line with the same claim a big-name dealer told me recently.
Looking forward to more official updates!
https://www.moto.it/news/moto-guzzi-v100-sport-tourer-motore-a-v-raffreddato-ad-acqua-120-cavalli-scoop.html (https://www.moto.it/news/moto-guzzi-v100-sport-tourer-motore-a-v-raffreddato-ad-acqua-120-cavalli-scoop.html)
(https://i.ibb.co/SndhNdk/7-A42901-C-AB8-A-4-CF6-BAB0-A8-FAB7422-DE0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SndhNdk)
I’m sure the cynics out there who have been crapping on this year’s output and MG’s future (or seemingly lack-thereof) will enjoy sitting down to give those angry little fingers a break.
Not opinions? LOL Don't hold your breath. Lots of critics with lots of opinions on how to "save" Guzzi, who has only been around for a mere 100 years.
Interesting article, though, thanks for sharing!
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Looks like the blurred image on the 100th anniversary poster.
(https://i.ibb.co/KmkzLyt/CBD3-A011-D14-D-4989-8-D1-B-69-A021381-B5-D.webp) (https://ibb.co/KmkzLyt)
(https://i.ibb.co/nbdP0jG/ABA06-C84-5203-4-F47-8072-86-E2877-F85-A2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nbdP0jG)
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I really don't think it's a spy photo. You don't get that close and get nothing but a blurry image to show for it. Guzzi is very strategic on what and how they release info. It's just a tease. Hope to see the real pictures soon.
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Some of you guys would make lousy detectives! It's clearly a spy photo. This can be born out by going to the site the pic was taken from
The OP was kind enough to include the hyper-link to Motoit website, there you can see several other pic's, a couple that indicate spy indeed.
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Some of you guys would make lousy detectives! It's clearly a spy photo. This can be born out by going to the site the pic was taken from
The OP was kind enough to include the hyper-link to Motoit website, there you can see several other pic's, a couple that indicate spy indeed.
As a lifelong skeptic, I don’t trust nor do I care that any ‘spy pic’ of an upcoming bike model is really a clandestine shot excitedly taken by a snoop in the biz. It could easily be a staged shot on the marketing agenda.
What matters is that it’s a sneak peek of something real. And THAT'S what tickles my nethers.
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I agree 100% Dirk
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Hope springs eternal.
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From the photo gallery pics, it looks like a left side single sided swing arm with single right side short exhaust can. Tubular handle bars, and a tidy rear end.
damn Chad, you have great vision. I could barely make out, "is that a motorcycle?"
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Looks like the blurred image on the 100th anniversary poster.
(https://i.ibb.co/KmkzLyt/CBD3-A011-D14-D-4989-8-D1-B-69-A021381-B5-D.webp) (https://ibb.co/KmkzLyt)
(https://i.ibb.co/nbdP0jG/ABA06-C84-5203-4-F47-8072-86-E2877-F85-A2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nbdP0jG)
Is that a motorcycle?
:grin:
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Come on kids, have you really got so complacent with the internets that you have lost your curiosity???
Please see post 13 of this thread.
I hope I don’t have to hold any hands as we move forward.
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Late to the party, shoulda brought it out at the beginning of their 100 year anniversary and had them on show floors ready to sell.
Maybe instead of V100 they can call it the V101..
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I don't know if it's a spy photo or a corporate tease shot. Looks like the men in the men in the photos were using a private helipad as a photo location.(Somewhere with a name of 5 or 6 letters ending in "A") You see them with tripods and lighting equipment. The men are dressed in summer clothing that looks more American or Aussie than stylish Italians. (https://img1.stcrm.it/images/25544619/1000x1000/moto-guzzi-v100-motoit-3.jpg) I can't imagine being that open to view and not having a better image unless that was the goal. :wink:
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Go to google maps and paste this in and go to street view Elisuperficie di Civenna You can see the parking lot where they parked their transport vehicle and someone snapped a photo with their phone. Pan around and you can see that a real spy photographer could of gotten a shot almost on top of the whole scene. Wish i knew how to copy and paste pictures off google maps to show it here. Maybe some one can. Do I care if it was a spy photo or not. Not really. I just know what I see and no one needs to take my hand.
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(https://i.servimg.com/u/f52/19/48/77/49/th/moto-g10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19487749/66)
Already the right colors for Huzo.
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Maybe we are the “Chicago Cubs fans” of motorcycling? Where Hope springs eternal.
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The mirrors look exactly like the ones on my Norge.
GliderJohn
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Looks like they turned the heads 90 degrees. Lets hope more pics keep surfacing.
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Looks like this is for real!
https://www.italy24news.com/business/172919.html
(https://i.ibb.co/ZL27yNp/D340-A450-702-D-458-B-8-E90-DA25-C9331010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZL27yNp)
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Ok, you have my attention.
Who do I pay ?
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Fascinating! Thanks for posting the link! I can't wait to see one of these machines in person. Though.... "The new engine will no longer have the intake behind the cylinder and the exhaust in front, but the first in the center of the V and the exhaust manifolds that will come out on the outside of the cylinders," seems somewhat... different...
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As is the LH driveshaft.
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"The new engine will no longer have the intake behind the cylinder and the exhaust in front, but the first in the center of the V and the exhaust manifolds that will come out on the outside of the cylinders,
That also give them more room for the radiator. Last thing you want is a over heating water cool bike.
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Awesomeness!
-AJ
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If not for that cock eyed engine I'd mistake it for any one of my 15 or 20 year old SVS's. Fakir or not, a V twin 2 stroke under 350 lbs. Sold!
R3~
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Fascinating! Thanks for posting the link! I can't wait to see one of these machines in person. Though.... "The new engine will no longer have the intake behind the cylinder and the exhaust in front, but the first in the center of the V and the exhaust manifolds that will come out on the outside of the cylinders," seems somewhat... different...
Maybe there's a V-4 in the works? Kidding aside this will be a very interesting bike and certainly an important one for MG. Would be nice if the production version had some faux fins on the cylinders but not a deal breaker.
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Air cooling seems like it worked fine. Why change to something that can always cause trouble?
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Air cooling seems like it worked fine. Why change to something that can always cause trouble?
Emissions requirements
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Air cooling seems like it worked fine. Why change to something that can always cause trouble?
horsapower
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LIke Chad said, emissions. And, sure.. you can make more horsepower. FWIW, I've had two liquid cooled bikes, and no issues.
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Emissions? Horsepower?
Never heard air cooled bikes having a problem.
Air cooled bikes made plenty of horsepower.
Sales gimmick sounds more likely. JMO
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I have a liquid cooled car!!
Of course I don't really trust it and I am sure it will let me down sometime. Hasn't done yet though! :wink:
PS: Is that a serious comment about air cooled engines not having emissions problems? (gas and noise!)
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Emissions? Horsepower?
Never heard air cooled bikes having a problem.
Air cooled bikes made plenty of horsepower.
Sales gimmick sounds more likely. JMO
The emissions regs - especially in Europe - continue to get tougher, and air cooled bikes have a harder and harder time complying, especially on the bigger displacements. I get what MG is trying to do here.
Steve
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Emissions? Horsepower?
Never heard air cooled bikes having a problem.
Air cooled bikes made plenty of horsepower.
Sales gimmick sounds more likely. JMO
Ahhhhhh, there is that Guzzi optimism. Ya know, I do miss that donkey and cart I used to have, no issues with water cooling. The combustion engine is just a gimmick.
:violent1:
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I have a liquid cooled car!!
Of course I don't really trust it and I am sure it will let me down sometime. Hasn't done yet though! :wink:
PS: Is that a serious comment about air cooled engines not having emissions problems? (gas and noise!)
So, your air cooled Stelvio NTX, 850 T3 didn't pass emissions?
Maybe if you set at idle for hours at a time.
Never heard of water cooled engines have problems? :shocked: :laugh:
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Ahhhhhh, there is that Guzzi optimism. Ya know, I do miss that donkey and cart I used to have, no issues with water cooling. The combustion engine is just a gimmick.
:violent1:
Relax, I didn't call you a donkey :laugh:
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We've been reading for a while now from OEM's that air-cooled won't be able to pass newer regulations. This is not new information.
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So, your air cooled Stelvio NTX, 850 T3 didn't pass emissions?
Maybe if you set at idle for hours at a time.
It did. In 2016. Just!! Wouldn't now for new vehicles though. Not only pollution, but also noise!
As far as I know, nobody is developing large capacity air cooled engines anymore. Liquid cooling is the only way to go if you want to stay in the game. I applaud Moto Guzzi for doing just that.
Never heard of water cooled engines have problems? :shocked: :laugh:
Can't say I'm aware of it being a thing.
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When additional parts (hoses, thermostat, radiator) could all fail, break, or wear out, call the tow truck.
I'll wave as I ride by. :thumb:
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When additional parts (hoses, thermostat, radiator) could all fail, break, or wear out, call the tow truck.
I'll wave as I ride by. :thumb:
We'll be talking about points vs. electronic ignition next. :wink:
The point is, the only way for Moto Guzzi to continue as a motorcycle manufacturer is for them to develop modern, liquid cooled, clean and quiet engines. That's what they're doing. Enjoy it while you can! They'll be some of the last.
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We'll be talking about points vs. electronic ignition next. :wink:
The point is, the only way for Moto Guzzi to continue as a motorcycle manufacturer is for them to develop modern, liquid cooled, clean and quiet engines. That's what they're doing. Enjoy it while you can! They'll be some of the last.
Yeah, when your points or condenser go bad, $10 spares in your tool kit get you going....
When your computer goes bad...$$$ and a flatbed :laugh:
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If not for that cock eyed engine I'd mistake it for any one of my 15 or 20 year old SVS's.
Assuming you mean Suzuki SVs, I’d agree as per my comment along those lines when the first Galluzzi desk top ‘leak’ photo was released. It just looks derivative, Aprilia, Japanese, recycled 1995 Quota or whatever versus being designed as a whole in a way that attracts people to e.g. the V85TT. I think this one is a miss unless it’s very different in person. It could sell as an Italian commuter bike like the small Monsters but I’m guessing it may be too expensive for that market.
The ‘must be liquid cooled for emissions’ thing has been going around for 30 years. I think the real reason for liquid cooling on this bike is power, and if it’s pleasant to ride that will to some degree make up for the uninspired overall design.
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Yeah, when your points or condenser go bad, $10 spares in your tool kit get you going....
When your computer goes bad...$$$ and a flatbed :laugh:
Yeah, the Dyna on my CX was set sometime around 1995, rebuilt the engine around 2012 installed the distributor with the untouched Dyna and it's still rolling. Can't remember the last time I did anything on the 07 Norge except installing a new map about 5 years ago. Installed points on the rebuilt 76 LeMans but never could get them quite right and just installed a Dyna.
Yeah, maybe I should consider getting a new Dyna box on the CX considering it's in it's 17th year of service.
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Yeah, the Dyna on my CX was set sometime around 1995, rebuilt the engine around 2012 installed the distributor with the untouched Dyna and it's still rolling. Can't remember the last time I did anything on the 07 Norge except installing a new map about 5 years ago. Installed points on the rebuilt 76 LeMans but never could get them quite right and just installed a Dyna.
Yeah, maybe I should consider getting a new Dyna box on the CX considering it's in it's 17th year of service.
Yeah, setting points is real complicated....
(https://i.ibb.co/B2QJ8qV/54caea8009b2a-geico-caveman-def.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B2QJ8qV)
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Yeah, setting points is real complicated....
(https://i.ibb.co/B2QJ8qV/54caea8009b2a-geico-caveman-def.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B2QJ8qV)
Yeah, Guzzi points are fine once you modify the points plate because it's such a pain in the ass to get it right with the non-modified points plate from the factory.
To each their own, but complaining because the rest of the world is moving on with modern equipment is rather silly. Yeah I know, "the T-3 is the best thing Guzzi ever made."
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ooof
that styling is a no for me, dawg
Hopefully they press release some good pics soon, that looks like a honda pacific coast... fingers crossed it's prototype pics or a bad angle, but if not :embarassed: :sad: :embarrassed: :shocked:
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What the heck is a "road crossover"? That's what they're calling this.
Crossing over from WHAT to WHAT?
Looks uncomfortable in the new photo.
Moto
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ooof
that styling is a no for me, dawg
Hopefully they press release some good pics soon, that looks like a honda pacific coast... fingers crossed it's prototype pics or a bad angle, but if not :embarassed: :sad: :embarrassed: :shocked:
Are you even attracted to sport bikes? I’m not, but I recognize MG’s need to get back to some of those roots. I actually dig its lines, because it’s not a Ninja or RNineT with a million different angles. It’s simple, sleek. And doesn’t have the big ol’ booty like the Centauri that BettyTheBear and I mutually dislike, ha.
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That also give them more room for the radiator. Last thing you want is a over heating water cool bike.
And keeps the DOHC intake and exhaust valves on the same cam/geometry. BMW went to the same concept when the went with liquid cooling.
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What the heck is a "road crossover"? That's what they're calling this.
Crossing over from WHAT to WHAT?
Looks uncomfortable in the new photo.
Moto
Translations from a free translator will never be 100% efficient.
Fact: neither are paid translators.
Anecdote: I worked as a graphic designer for the world’s largest producer of non-powered lawn and garden tools (oh, the prestige!). When we created labels, packaging, instructions, etc., we sent the verbiage out to a translator who did both the French and Spanish translations. Yvan was a sweetheart. Soothing voice. One day, we got a new Marketing Director, who happened to be from France. During day 1, he looked at our hose packaging, and said ‘Whoah. Guys. We need to change the verbiage on these. You’re using boyeau when you should be using toyeau.”
(From Google Translate:)
tuyeau: pipe
boyeau: gut
Yvan was a sweetheart.
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So, your air cooled Stelvio NTX, 850 T3 didn't pass emissions?
Maybe if you set at idle for hours at a time.
Never heard of water cooled engines have problems? :shocked: :laugh:
No one says that an air-cooled engine won't meet emissions or make power. But there are many advantages with emissions, performance and longevity with liquid cooling.
I think this was proven about 35 years ago with sportsbikes, given the power increase compared to the earlier air-cooled turbo bikes. Yes, a water pump makes more power than a turbo, and still meets emissions. Tighter clearances, more compression, better combustion control, less friction, etc.
That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with an air-cooled engine. It's traditional, simpler, better looking but there are performance trade-offs. Even Porsche has given up with air-cooled engines.
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Are you even attracted to sport bikes? I’m not, but I recognize MG’s need to get back to some of those roots. I actually dig its lines, because it’s not a Ninja or RNineT with a million different angles. It’s simple, sleek. And doesn’t have the big ol’ booty like the Centauri that BettyTheBear and I mutually dislike, ha.
I agree. The only bikes I like look like a Triumph Bonneville, a Loop Frame, or a California. Or the Griso. But boy am I excited about something new, anything new.
-AJ
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I would look good on it.. :cool: :boozing:
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Lets all calm down, some of you are acting like the day you saw puppies for the first time. :drool:
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Easy snowman.
(https://i.ibb.co/M9brfVY/female-snowman-pink-scarf-leaves-head-cartoon-style-vector-stock-illustration-white-isolated-1964400.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9brfVY)
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Looks a bit BMW R1100S in the fairing styling cue and the rear bevelbox looks R1200 GS.
If Dan wasn’t a moderator, I could have some fun with this one...
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Sorry Dusty. Should have realized the heat makes Snowmen have a meltdown :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Fascinating! Thanks for posting the link! I can't wait to see one of these machines in person. Though.... "The new engine will no longer have the intake behind the cylinder and the exhaust in front, but the first in the center of the V and the exhaust manifolds that will come out on the outside of the cylinders," seems somewhat... different...
Motus.
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Fascinating! Thanks for posting the link! I can't wait to see one of these machines in person. Though.... "The new engine will no longer have the intake behind the cylinder and the exhaust in front, but the first in the center of the V and the exhaust manifolds that will come out on the outside of the cylinders," seems somewhat... different...
The Honda CX500’s intake and exhaust were similar, if I’m understanding the verbiage correctly:
(https://i.ibb.co/rx0BbN1/00707-C60-1-C2-E-4-B2-F-B3-BF-1-D0-AE77-AAE83.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rx0BbN1)
upload pic for url (https://imgbb.com/)
FOLKS! MOTO GUZZI HAS COME FULL CIRCLE AND IS MAKING A HONDA CX500. WHAT’S OLD IS NEW!
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Uh , come on fellas , let's not .
Dusty
It's kind of cute. You can take the Moderator out of moderation, but you can't quite squeeze all the Moderation out of the former moderator.
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I think it has great potential. I hope it's different enough from other bikes on the market to keep it Guzzi, in a good way.
I doubt I will ever own one, (but I have said bs like that before) as I really love air cooled motors when it comes to M/Cs. I have had liquid cooled bikes before, and they worked just fine, it's just I really like the elemental notion of air cooling. But I hope this thing is big time cool! :afro:
Should we start pissing and moaning how 110/120/130 horsepower isn't enough? Or should we start bitching about, "those lying SOBs, there is no way that thing is making X=HP! Either one is a staple upon to Guzzi intros, could one hope for less bitching on this one, I for one do!
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Nothing wrong with promoting good manners!
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I believe the truth is, it's all about sales.
They think this bike will sell, and water cooling will justify price increase.
For 99% of us our current rides have all the power we'll use.
Most would choose an older classic in brand new condition, 0 miles, than a 2021 model.
I know I would.
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A retired bear is still a bear , or something like that :laugh:
TS
Grizzly Adams?
(https://i.ibb.co/TmBv9Jq/dan2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TmBv9Jq)
holly springs elementary school (https://nonprofitlight.com/nc/holly-springs/pta-holly-springs-elementary-school-north-carolina-congress)
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We'll see when it actually is for sale to the general buying public. As some have speculated there may be a whole line up of bikes using this engine coming up. I'll not be an early adopter, I think there will be some significant kinks to work out with the new powerplant, since it's a completely new one.
Hard to tell from the one pic, but I kinda like the styling, I could see a naked version close on the heels, a new cruiser maybe a tourer as well. No need to cannibalize the V85 & V7 850 sales by adding ADV and std to the line ...yet
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I believe the truth is, it's all about sales.
They think this bike will sell, and water cooling will justify price increase.
You really believe they made it water cooled just so they can charge a higher price?
Most would choose an older classic in brand new condition, 0 miles, than a 2021 model.
Where is this supply of older classics in brand new condition with zero miles? Sounds nice!
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John, what I'm saying is it would be tough to increase a price w/o a reason.
And I didn't say the older models were available, but IF THEY WERE most would choose them.
Even if they didn't have water coolng....stereo tape...and a color TV....back seat bar...reclining seats
Oh that Johnny Cash, never forget him :sad:
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I'd hope it looks as nice as any spineframe bike. So far, hard to tell.
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That also give them more room for the radiator. Last thing you want is a over heating water cool bike.
Ah ha! Good point! Thanks!
It should be an interesting machine. And I will need a second bike after She Who Must Be Obeyed takes over the Ducati... :grin:
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Probably closer to a Golden Retriever than a bear :laugh:
TS
He looks like Santa, but where are the claus..?
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Now that the spill on isle #7 is cleaned up, let’s get back to the new, possible, water logged Moto Guzzi🤔👍
Dan
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Now that the spill on isle #7 is cleaned up, let’s get back to the new, possible, water logged Moto Guzzi🤔👍
Dan
Ok,
I’ll have one in........RED !
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My V7 becomes a water-cooled bike when I ride in the rain during summer.
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The whiners (I'm talking to you yogidozer) should look at the Euro 6 standards. It's basically the end of air cooled engines. The Regs are so tight, not even the SAS emissions cheat that Guzzi use now with the air cooled bikes will work. It gets worse. The new ECU's and software powered dash will know when you fart while riding. It's the end of remapping and Harry Home-Tune.
I wish they'd brought out an electric bike. The E100 would get my interest.
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The whiners (I'm talking to you yogidozer) should look at the Euro 6 standards. It's basically the end of air cooled engines. The Regs are so tight, not even the SAS emissions cheat that Guzzi use now with the air cooled bikes will work. It gets worse. The new ECU's and software powered dash will know when you fart while riding. It's the end of remapping and Harry Home-Tune.
I wish they'd brought out an electric bike. The E100 would get my interest.
Sounds like you're the one crying.
Here's something your style. No battery needed.
(https://i.ibb.co/NKrh4dk/child-tricycle-helmet-shoes-safety.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NKrh4dk)
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look at the Euro 6 standards. It's basically the end of air cooled engines. The Regs are so tight, not even the SAS emissions cheat that Guzzi use now with the air cooled bikes will work. It gets worse. The new ECU's and software powered dash will know when you fart while riding. It's the end of remapping and Harry Home-Tune.
The emission regs are the killer. Air cooled = simple. In order now to meet the regs it is basically impossible with an air cooled engine because of;
(a) motor noise. They are simply to noisy mechanically to pass the latest regs.
(b) In order to meet the very tight gas emissions the tolerances inside the engine need to be very tight, so tight that the temperature control of an aircooled engine is just not up to it. In order to maintain those tight tolerances the motor now must be liquid cooled.
I was amazed that Guzzi got the V85 through with air cooling. Just not possible now.
The reference to the CX 500 is not really comparing apples with apples. It may have been 4 valve but it was a pushrod, not OHC. Thinking people may ask, why did Honda use a pushrod configuration when all their other bikes were OHC? Now try and work out how to get an OHC configuration to have direct valve operation on the usual Guzzi configuration? Even the 8 valvers have little pushrods to get it to work, and the motor is a hi-cam, not direct operation OHC. Reciprocating parts take horsepower, and it is all about efficiency. Spin the camshaft in the same plane as the crankshaft and suddenly things become a lot simpler mechanically, which I suspect is why they have the pipes coming from the side (if that part of the information is correct).
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Sounds like you're the one crying.
Here's something your style. No battery needed.
(https://i.ibb.co/NKrh4dk/child-tricycle-helmet-shoes-safety.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NKrh4dk)
That's no good. Yellow doesn't do it for me. I like Orange.
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Griso
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i am looking forward to see what they achieve. with big brother Aprilia to help, i am sure the task is not too daunting. unfortunately for me, it really kills one of the big drawing card for me, the simple air cooled engine. MG's have some unique features and I feel that for many of us, the loss of aircooling will be a deal breaker. oto, at my age, i probably won't need any more new bikes and there will be used aircooled ones around for at least as long as I am riding.
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On a sport touring MC I'm on board with liquid cooling. I have a V85 and enjoy exploring off road. In that type of use I lean toward a air cooled bike. Having said that pretty much all modern dirt bikes a water cooled and have no problem with slow going off road.I only hope they did some real world testing on this new motor besides a test bench.
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It's an obvious UFO picture...tantalizi ng, and just blurry enough to encourage speculation... :wink:
Be well, stay well,
DougG
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Yay! New fodder for a merged threadfest!
It's been awhile.
Impressed that we're seeing a liquid cooled 1000cc DOHC engine! A development of the old VA10 prototype, perhaps?
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I came back to say I love it. I hope to be able to afford it one day.
And to say, Chuck would look good on that. :grin:
Looks like it has some 80's Guzzi styling mixed with Norge in its DNA, to me.
Oh, and I hope they keep the drivetrain silver. I missed silver, it's been all black for too long.
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Anyone think it looks like previous prototypes? Anyone got a picture of the IGGYProtto or whatever it was?
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Anyone think it looks like previous prototypes? Anyone got a picture of the IGGYProtto or whatever it was?
Do you mean the Ippogrifo? If so, you are needing better glasses.
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This is good news all around, and glad to see Guzzi is making the investment in their future. Will be interesting to see how things develop with the air cooled models.
I've had several watercooled bikes, all were IL4's (Concours & FJR). I far prefer aircooled, but am interested to see where this motor goes and if the tighter tolerances allowed by watercooling (and required to meet emissions) robs character. Hopefully they keep the same crank and firing.
Also looks like this will be a range of bikes. Excited to see where this leads.
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I like this new model based on the few photos available. The front fairing/headlight design and instrument panel will be interesting to see. Like Unkempt, I like the silver drivetrain, and the wheels and valve covers almost have a subtle gold color change which I also like. The intake manifold relocation looks like it might allow for a narrower seat, which could help make models with this engine appealing to shorter riders. I love air-cooled simplicity, but I think this water cooled engine will have apeal beyond increased power output and emissions compliance. I don't see the cam galleries at the aft end of the valve cover base, so maybe this will still be a high cam engine, which I'd prefer for serviceability vs. a shim-in-bucket OHC design.
The single sided swingarm looks great, and it almost looks like it's going to have the exhaust centered under the engine with a right-facing outlet. I love my V7III and EV, but it's good to see Moto Guzzi making something like this. I like the V85 (especially the engine), but dual sports aren't my thing, and this is a nice, different direction relative to current Guzzis that is likely to be something I'll want to buy. I'm excited to learn more about it. It's main competition, for me, would be a lower ride height model with the V85 engine at the V85's output level... maybe an Ohlins-supended version of the V7 850 with V85 engine.
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The emission regs are the killer.
Emissions compliance has less to do with liquid cooling and ‘tolerances’ than it does with combustion control needing small cylinder bore and thereby small combustion chamber size. If you then extract a lot of power out of a small bore engine, liquid cooling is an asset because it won’t overheat at max power. Conversely if you don’t mind a bit less peak power, a small bore engine can be air cooled and will make about the same emissions as the same bore liquid cooled cylinder that to make more power has cam boxes, chain enclosures etc preventing effective air cooling design. That’s why the emissions complaint air cooled V85TT is (1) relatively small displacement (2) modest in power output and (3) pushrod versus OHC. It’s a little more difficult because (counter intuitively) the air cooled cylinder runs relatively cooler most of the time but with Nikasil cylinders etc the piston/cylinder clearance is still very tight so that’s not the driving factor.
If you want more displacement (and power) with small bore air cooled cylinders, you need more of them and that is also hard to configure in an effectively cooled way. Maybe a radial air cooled 5 cylinder engine is the right answer, Carlo Guzzi might’ve tried it, he tried everything else :wink:
A lot of factors are interwoven but the supposed ‘need’ for liquid cooling is really all about power. I don’t think the V85TT engine and its brethren are going out of production due to evolving emissions laws, but they will continue to make modest power matched to the platforms they propel. I happen to think that type of motorcycle is more attractive.
Guzzi engine design and development is BTW done by Piaggio in Pontedera, an acquaintance works there, doing that. Aprilia is a another relatively small Piaggio subsidiary, like Guzzi. This engine was designed and tested by the late Federico Martini and company at Piaggio before he died in 2014, and was pulled out more recently for manufacture.
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Great!
I’ll wait on an “R" series Beemer or the new 850 or an “old" 1400 now.
Seriously, I am interested.
Hats off for the 850, the V85, my lovable V9 and.......
:boozing: :popcorn:
More :gotpics:
inditx
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Do you mean the Ippogrifo? If so, you are needing better glasses.
My mistake. I looked at the net photos of the ippogrifo and this popped up: (https://bikes.bestcarmagz.net/sites/default/files/moto-guzzi/ippogrifo-v7/moto-guzzi-ippogrifo-v7-99347-569.jpg)
I remember guys on WG bitching because they could not buy one. So, did they make that bike and just not sell it here? Or was it a prototype that never saw production?
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Hopefully they'll make an adventure model with that motor
:thumb:
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I came back to say I love it. I hope to be able to afford it one day.
And to say, Chuck would look good on that. :grin:
Looks like it has some 80's Guzzi styling mixed with Norge in its DNA, to me.
Oh, and I hope they keep the drivetrain silver. I missed silver, it's been all black for too long.
Hiya, Joe! Hope things are going well, and yes..you, too would look good on it. :grin:
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Looks a lot like an 80's Cagiva 650 but larger.
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My mistake. I looked at the net photos of the ippogrifo and this popped up: (https://bikes.bestcarmagz.net/sites/default/files/moto-guzzi/ippogrifo-v7/moto-guzzi-ippogrifo-v7-99347-569.jpg)
I remember guys on WG bitching because they could not buy one. So, did they make that bike and just not sell it here? Or was it a prototype that never saw production?
That's one of Oberdan Bezzi's fantasy's. There are heaps of non-existent Guzzi pics floating around the internet that's he photoshopped out of thin air. Some people lap it up and demand to know when and where they can buy one. They don't (and never will) exist.
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My mistake. I looked at the net photos of the ippogrifo and this popped up: (https://bikes.bestcarmagz.net/sites/default/files/moto-guzzi/ippogrifo-v7/moto-guzzi-ippogrifo-v7-99347-569.jpg)
I remember guys on WG bitching because they could not buy one. So, did they make that bike and just not sell it here? Or was it a prototype that never saw production?
The real (stillborn) Ippogrifo.
(https://i.ibb.co/fD7BQqy/ippogrifo-v7-Image-credits-Luap-Mc-Keever.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fD7BQqy)
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(https://i.servimg.com/u/f52/19/48/77/49/immagi10.png) (https://servimg.com/view/19487749/67)
(Source: http://forum.animaguzzista.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59418&start=800)
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uuuh
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The photos come from Moto.it, an Italian publication that usually has its ear to the ground on this sort of thing. Indeed, after running an initial spy shot, Moto.it acquired a second set of spy snaps, which you can see here.
https://canadamotoguide.com/2021/08/30/expect-a-moto-guzzi-v100-sport-tourer-soon/
(https://i.ibb.co/r0kRx0T/5-FCC683-C-3164-401-C-8920-D0-F8120-F5-D41.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0kRx0T)
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The photos come from Moto.it, an Italian publication that usually has its ear to the ground on this sort of thing. Indeed, after running an initial spy shot, Moto.it acquired a second set of spy snaps, which you can see here.
https://canadamotoguide.com/2021/08/30/expect-a-moto-guzzi-v100-sport-tourer-soon/
(https://i.ibb.co/r0kRx0T/5-FCC683-C-3164-401-C-8920-D0-F8120-F5-D41.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0kRx0T)
Miguel Galluzi also posted this pic on his personal instagram page FWIW
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Quote "As on the old Honda CX500, the gearbox of Moto Guzzi's new liquid-cooled V-Twin will rotate in the opposite direction of the crankshaft to kill the torque reaction generated by any motorcycle engine with a longitudinal crank."
This sounds like BS to me. The gear box still has a single output shaft rotating in the opposite direction to crankshaft so now the torque is in the opposite direction and not killed at all .To eliminate torque about the longditudinal axis I think you would need two contra rotating shafts which is not practical on a motorcycle of course . But is on helicopters ,A/C and boats .
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I don’t know what to think. Mix of Centauro, 1100 Sport and Norge? That’s a lotta plastic.
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uuuh
"derivative styling" would be an understatement, no? :lipsrsealed:
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I don’t know what to think. Mix of Centauro, 1100 Sport and Norge? That’s a lotta plastic.
I see Quota mixed with Yamaha mixed with a 2000 model Ducati, and an Aprilia in the woodpile.
Bleh!
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"derivative styling" would be an understatement, no? :lipsrsealed:
Like a Honda but bland?
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I encourage you visual line jumpers to hold your fire. Wait until, at least, you can see the bike clearly before you start pissing all over it.
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I think that Hard Bags added to the rear will balance the look of the bike. Can't wait to see it in person.
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I encourage you visual line jumpers to hold your fire. Wait until, at least, you can see the bike clearly before you start pissing all over it.
really? you think there might be a reason that they don't show a clear photo? :rolleyes:
Just speculating :whip2:
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Yes, dah, it’s called building anticipation.
You don’t want to show your full hand prior to the big reveal.
And if you do this, you better have something cool. If not, you’re gonna feel like Cadillac when the revealed the mighty Cimaron.
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This isn't my style of bike but I think it looks great. I hope it's real and will come to market as a 2022 model.
Forza Moto Guzzi
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Okay, with the heads rotated so that the intakes are in the inside of the V, how long until some crazy tuners in Italy or...slap a supercharger on that engine? 125-135+ rear wheel hp and maybe 90+ lb ft of torque? That could be interesting!
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I seem to recall that MG themselves have or at least had plans to put a supercharger on it.
So that might not be a coinicidence ;)
Cheers,
D.
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really? you think there might be a reason that they don't show a clear photo? :rolleyes:
Just speculating :whip2:
Obviously there was a reason if they didn't. The bigger picture had been taken from less than 3m distance. No cellphone made in the last 10 years take so bad pictures. It had been intentionally blurred and probably edited.
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Hope to see some clearer pictures soon before forming my opinion, initially it kind of reminds me of Centauro styling.....
Seems to me, new motor means new models coming :thumb: :thumb:
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I’m sure the cynics out there who have been crapping on this year’s output and MG’s future (or seemingly lack-thereof) will enjoy sitting down to give those angry little fingers a break.
After nearly 20 years of unfulfilled promises and teasing, can you blame us? :grin:
But this makes me happy. Very happy. Bring on the 1200 sport version without the ugly-stick treatment. Can't wait.
Also can't believe after months of googling 'guzzi spy pics' three times a week I missed this by five days, lol. I'd actually given up.
Kudos to Piaggio's security, not a single spy pic during development, is that a first?
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And for heaven’s sake you guys in the styling department, look at which Guzzis are considered classically beautiful and build them in that style where design limitations allow.
Imagine what an MGS styled 1000 would sell like with that motor. Don’t try to take on the KTM angry praying mantis slash cut styling, it’s pox.
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Imagine what an MGS styled 1000 would sell like with that motor. Don’t try to take on the KTM angry praying mantis slash cut styling, it’s pox.
Amen. Not a fan of V100 looks; I'll wait for the larger capacity sports (ish) bike that's also supposed to be happening (please please please let it happen and be pretty. More Agusta Superveloce than KTM).
But if not I could see picking up a used V100 and messing with it. I have enough MGS bits and pieces now that I could cobble some stupid half-arsed thing together. :grin:
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Couple of observations, no apparent anti jacking system on the rear drive, looks to be a more road oriented multistrada, last gen triump tiger type bike so a 17inch wheel adventure type bike which may explain the term road cross over. Should have a decent sized fuel tank on it, will be interesting the trade press seems to be pretty quiet about this. It looks more like the kind of bike I should buy instead of what I typically buy.
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Couple of observations, no apparent anti jacking system on the rear drive
Seems like an odd move to bring in a new architecture with all mod cons *barring that*, though. Roper's been suggesting there might be a link behind the arm or something.