Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ampm7 on September 04, 2021, 02:06:41 PM
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Well, my hip replacement is going well after 3 months and it is getting close to time to get back on. No more Guzzi's although I will keep my two Ambassadors as they are quite clean. I am looking at both Harley and Indian namely the Road King Special and the Chieftain Dark Horse as I can no longer mount a high seat bike. Each bike has some advantages vs. the other. The Harley has that wonderful deadwood green and the Rider Defensive electronics of which the feature of when you are on an incline press the brakes and hold down for 5 seconds and the bike won't roll backward. That's nice. 114 motor, linked brakes, no fairing, minimal readouts, bar position and seat height are perfect for me etc. The Indian has one of the cleanest looks of any bike out there. You don't see a lot of extraneous wires and filigree just a beautiful clean motor. It is a very good motor. ABS, ride modes, digital readout plus analog, needs some crash bars but are available plus an awesome Sagebrush green matte finish. Both bikes handle quite well and have plenty of torque. Definite mile crunchers as the bags on both bikes are quite big and can handle a lot of stuff. They are expensive but this will be my last bike. Here are some pictures...What do you guys think?
(https://i.ibb.co/h1SPL7z/indian-2-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h1SPL7z)
(https://i.ibb.co/qDd8jWs/harley-4-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qDd8jWs)
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One thing I forgot to add. The Indian only uses one oil. It has two drain plugs next to each other but only one oil goes in just like the Japanese bikes. Not so with the Harley. It is still motor oil, primary drive oil and transmission oil. Nice feature on the Indian.
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A few weeks ago, at a local dealer, I had the opportunity to Ride a Harley Road King and an Indian Chieftan. Back to back on the same roads. I know those are not the exact models you are looking at, but I suspect the differences I noticed are probably true across both companies' lineups.
Overall, I preferred the performance and handling of the Indian. The Harley was kind of floppy where the Indian held its lines better and I had more fun in the twisties. I found the Indian's clutch easier to operate and overall smoother - whereas the Harley clutch felt a bit abrupt or grabby. With saddle time, I could get used to either of them, so take these as only first impressions. Both were equally comfortable for me, and styling is a matter of personal preference.
Happy shopping.
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Thanks Scud for that unvarnished opinion as the Harley has that large primary (which they have had since dirt) and on my Heritage it was always hard to find neutral unless you were rolling. It is almost too much machinery but it has worked for a lot of years. It is almost like the Indian is a simpler motor but has plenty of performance. Simpler in my book always means less to go wrong...
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My choice would be the Road King. Not sage advice because I have no experience with the modern Indians.
The Harley has higher quality fit and finish. You will not lack in the performance department with the 114 although I believe the Indian may pull it a bit in a drag race from what I have read. When traveling on the HD you will have the comfort knowing that almost every decent sized town has a dealer stocked with everything you might need for maintenance or repairs, something that is completely foreign to Guzzi riders. :laugh:
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And I might mention that I am 11 months post total hip replacement. I can now swing my leg over just about any bike without strain or pain, including my buddy's sky high Triumph Scrambler 1200XE. A few months before the hip surgery I couldn't get my leg over the saddle to try out his bike. So don't lock yourself into a low seat height bike. You may find yourself easily mounting a BMW GS 1250 Adventure (or more preferably a Guzzi V85TT) next riding season. :laugh:
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"....but this will be my last bike." Hilarious. I am guilty of uttering those same words, (as I am sure many on this forum have) more times than I care to remember but my friends have all reminded me. I wish you well on your current quest and future commitment of no more bikes after this one. :boozing:
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Wouldn't the wide seat and heavy weight put a strain on your hip?
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Well, I am almost 70 years old. Of course there are 70+ year olds that I wouldn't want to get into an arm wrestle with. But I do Have my vintage bikes which work well and I just like a cruiser bike for long distance touring of which I want to do some more. My GSXR days are over. Plus I am not into the adventure/industrial bikes although they are perfect for a bunch of guys and I don't denigrate anyone of their choices in motorcycling. So, here comes the Harley/Indian decision. Both bikes are quite good. The advantage goes to Harley in the availability of parts, dealer/services centers and independent centers around the country. But there are Indian dealers/service centers and the motor has a very high reliability factor. I want a bike that has just enough electronics but not so much that any time something goes wrong you need to go to the service center. I do all of my wrenching myself but with a lot electronics and once I knew what to do with my 2016 Eldo (particularly the pesky wrench logo) and knew how to get the bike out of limp home mode everything was fine. The Eldo was very good but what if something happened in an out of the way place? No Guzzi service for several hundred miles. I am to put it mildly, screwed. That is when the American bikes come into play. I looked at the Indian dealer service centers and the Harley dealer service centers and obviously Harley has a lot more. But from everything I am hearing the Indian has a very good reliability. I will test ride both bikes this next week.
(https://i.ibb.co/CMgfZd1/indian-3-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CMgfZd1)
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My reference to the GS was that you may not have the seat height limitation that you might be feeling now. BTW I am 67 and my CBR days are also behind me.
Here is Jerry's take on the Indian Challenger.
https://youtu.be/6zfLQu6Otbs
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Well, I am almost 70 years old. Of course there are 70+ year olds that I wouldn't want to get into an arm wrestle with. But I do Have my vintage bikes which work well and I just like a cruiser bike for long distance touring of which I want to do some more. My GSXR days are over. Plus I am not into the adventure/industrial bikes although they are perfect for a bunch of guys and I don't denigrate anyone of their choices in motorcycling. So, here comes the Harley/Indian decision. Both bikes are quite good. The advantage goes to Harley in the availability of parts, dealer/services centers and independent centers around the country. But there are Indian dealers/service centers and the motor has a very high reliability factor. I want a bike that has just enough electronics but not so much that any time something goes wrong you need to go to the service center. I do all of my wrenching myself but with a lot electronics and once I knew what to do with my 2016 Eldo (particularly the pesky wrench logo) and knew how to get the bike out of limp home mode everything was fine. The Eldo was very good but what if something happened in an out of the way place? No Guzzi service for several hundred miles. I am to put it mildly, screwed. That is when the American bikes come into play. I looked at the Indian dealer service centers and the Harley dealer service centers and obviously Harley has a lot more. But from everything I am hearing the Indian has a very good reliability. I will test ride both bikes this next week.
I've had these same thoughts about the same bikes for the same reasons (though younger). I much prefer Indian. BUT, to me the advantage of Harley isn't just the large dealer network but even small back woods towns often have an independent Harley mechanic.
-AJ
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I am the only one in the club I ride with NOT on a HD or Indian. A frequent complaint in slow riding (parades or with flags below 30 MPH) is the heat from the rear cylinder. Seems to be a bit more of a problem on the Indians. But, that Indian sure looks nice.
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Your photo shows an Indian Springfield. The Chieftain has the batwing fairing.
I have test ridden every model Indian every year since 2014. I saw a lot of issues with the demo bikes and realized they had growing pains to get through. I still wanted to check off owning an Indian so in 2017 I shopped 3 Indian dealers for a Springfield, and my local Harley dealer for a new M8 Road King. The 3 Indian dealers couldn't even come close to the local Harley dealer on my Triumph Trophy SE trade in plus selling price. They were thousands away so I bought the Road King.
No matter which one you get you are going to spend money making it your own.
Regarding the 3 holes verses 1, I prefer the 3 holes on the Harley. Most of my life I have owned one hole motorcycle engines. The same oil that lubricates the engine must lubricate everything else. I like that Harley has the jobs separated and you don't have to change the fluids as often.
Good luck with your decision.
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Indian
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Indian
Helpful. Do you have reasons, or just hate Harley?
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I am enjoying my 2021 Heritage Softail Classic very much. I enjoyed my 2019 Road King very much. I had a 2014 Indian Vintage and a 2015 Indian Chieftain. Harley builds a better bike.
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I don't honestly think you can go wrong with any of your choices.
I might even suggest you add the smaller/lighter Heritage or Sport Glide in the mix.
Though I fall in the HD side for personal reasons (size, performance, feel, accessories etc) I really do think both brands will be fine and low maintenance so on road help shouldn't be a huge consideration.
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I can’t comment because I’ve ridden neither, so my only suggestion is to buy whichever bike makes your heart go pitter-patter.
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First post for me here, I can't find a Guzzi (1400), and got off a BMW R1200GSA. I am getting too old, and short for the adv bikes. I went to my local International Motorcycle Show Outdoors, and test road about 10 Indians and HD. (IMS great resource) I prefer the HD for the quality, dealer network, aftermarket, and they work for me a little better. I was told to buy a HD wait till the production goes up, because of --, to get a better deal on a HD. I have owned a Sportster about 40 years ago, but never a large HD. The costs of the new MC are a shocker, but it may be my last bike. Resale of HD's are good. Just my 2 cents.
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I have researched the Indian because I wanted to know how to fix error codes in the computer because that can muck everything up. I remember on the Eldorado because I didn't take the "wrench" off of the display it went into "limp mode". At the time I didn't know what was happening and had to have the bike towed back for safety purposes. Later, I found out from glorious individuals on this website how to change the error code. The same exists on the Indian and the Harley is more mysterious. There are methods to diagnose both bikes but in this era if you want to do your own wrenching you have to know these things. I know that Indian does not have the dealer network that Harley has but having a large network does not mean quality of service. Besides, I have not taken a bike to a service center except a couple of times in the past for problems that I just couldn't solve. So, whether I go with Harley or Indian I want to know how to fix the computer which can shut down the bike if there is one little thing wrong.
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I have researched the Indian because I wanted to know how to fix error codes in the computer because that can muck everything up. I remember on the Eldorado because I didn't take the "wrench" off of the display it went into "limp mode". At the time I didn't know what was happening and had to have the bike towed back for safety purposes. Later, I found out from glorious individuals on this website how to change the error code. The same exists on the Indian and the Harley is more mysterious. There are methods to diagnose both bikes but in this era if you want to do your own wrenching you have to know these things. I know that Indian does not have the dealer network that Harley has but having a large network does not mean quality of service. Besides, I have not taken a bike to a service center except a couple of times in the past for problems that I just couldn't solve. So, whether I go with Harley or Indian I want to know how to fix the computer which can shut down the bike if there is one little thing wrong.
There's nothing mysterious about accessing trouble codes on late model Harleys. Unlike many brands you can do it straight through the dash without any special tools.
https://www.uti.edu/blog/motorcycle/trouble-codes
To enter the diagnostic system and retrieve a trouble code, hold down the trip reset button while turning the ignition from off to on. This will allow you to cycle through the categories, and see which one indicates a code.Feb 9, 2021
But that doesn't mean you and I can just "fix the computer" per se. Many vehicles today have entire service manuals, hundreds of pages long, with nothing but ECU diagnostic procedures.
I'm not saying that we can't do it, but I am saying there's way more to it than just pulling the codes.
Of course just like most things with Harley, there is probably much more aftermarket support for diagnosing and fixing Harleys than most other brands.
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Rocket 3
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I have researched the Indian because I wanted to know how to fix error codes in the computer because that can muck everything up. I remember on the Eldorado because I didn't take the "wrench" off of the display it went into "limp mode". At the time I didn't know what was happening and had to have the bike towed back for safety purposes. Later, I found out from glorious individuals on this website how to change the error code. The same exists on the Indian and the Harley is more mysterious. There are methods to diagnose both bikes but in this era if you want to do your own wrenching you have to know these things. I know that Indian does not have the dealer network that Harley has but having a large network does not mean quality of service. Besides, I have not taken a bike to a service center except a couple of times in the past for problems that I just couldn't solve. So, whether I go with Harley or Indian I want to know how to fix the computer which can shut down the bike if there is one little thing wrong.
I am going to say that all the threads on codes for the Harley was because the owner tried to follow some random YouTube video to work on their own bike. The also usually didn't pull the main fuse beforehand.
I don't know about Indian, but you can buy the service manual, parts breakout book, and buy each individual part down to a pin in a moles connector for the Harley.
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of the few bikes from both brand I've ridden, the Harley seemed them most normal, less cruiser than the Indian. That was the Road Kind/Road Glide vs 1st Gen Chief and that big Victory thing.
Like someone said, I really like riding my EV with all those Harley guys. I just feel cool when I do it. Certainly a different story if I wanted an Interstate full on deal, I might even think Goldwing for that
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My Rocket 3 ate expensive rear tires every 3K, so there's that.
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Having owned a 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour, I can certainly vouch for Polaris in knowing how to build an excellent motorcycle. They’ve only gotten better in the ensuing years as well. It’s certainly a personal preference thing but H-D’s are so common they get very little attention anywhere. I go to a lot of MC events. Literally no one pays much attention to any new H-D. My old Victory still gets a lot of very positive attention, everywhere.
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Having owned a 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour, I can certainly vouch for Polaris in knowing how to build an excellent motorcycle. They’ve only gotten better in the ensuing years as well. It’s certainly a personal preference thing but H-D’s are so common they get very little attention anywhere. I go to a lot of MC events. Literally no one pays much attention to any new H-D. My old Victory still gets a lot of very positive attention, everywhere.
If only we all chose motorcycles based on how well they ride, oh wait, adventure bike riders do just that. LOL!
Actually, Indian has had a lot of issues to overcome in the past 7 years. If they are better than when they were making Victory it doesn't show.
Just in the demo rides I went to, bikes were pulled because of electrical issues. One with me on it. I grabbed the brakes on a scout and it peed brake fluid on the ground. The paint quality wasn't very good the first 5 years or so.
I actually want to own an Indian one day. Maybe they will eventually build a quality product.