Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bad Chad on October 22, 2021, 07:12:33 PM
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Specs should be out by EICMA in a month, but let’s see who can guess on the mark.
My guess, 116bhp
Torque 75fp
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How much does it weigh?
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My 937 Ducati at the crank is rated 113 hp @9k rpm under Euro 4. It's more or less the same thing. 90 degree V twin, DOHC, liquid cooled, mild tuning (11degree overlap).
Take the over under. I'd guess it's about the same.
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(https://i.ibb.co/W6n56T9/ONEMILLION.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W6n56T9)
One million.
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109 is my guess.
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My 937 Ducati at the crank is rated 113 hp @9k rpm under Euro 4. It's more or less the same thing. 90 degree V twin, DOHC, liquid cooled, mild tuning (11degree overlap).
Take the over under. I'd guess it's about the same.
I think the press has reported 120HP for the new Guzzi. All in the ballpark.
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The press has not reported any real numbers, as none have been released.
Brother, the point of this is to pick a number, not say ballpark! You’re not much fun at parties, are you? :wink:
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100. It just sounds right. Hopefully tuned for torque.
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Claimed 120....(whether at crank or rear wheel unknown).
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115hp / 100Nm on crank.
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I'm with Charlie.. :cool:
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I will go with the same specs as the last Griso - 110 hp at the crank and I don't remember the torque, but it usually tends to be close to the cubic inches so I would say in the low 60s. Should be a crackin lump.
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How big are the horses ? Italian stallions ?Draft (always higher in torque) ?1/4 horses (preferred for sprinting)?
Just wondering.
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claimed weight #495
claimed hp 115
thats my guess
so I am thinking real wet weight 510# real dyno hp 101
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I will go with the same specs as the last Griso - 110 hp at the crank and I don't remember the torque, but it usually tends to be close to the cubic inches so I would say in the low 60s. Should be a crackin lump.
110 HP is my "guess" as well... :thumb: :cool: :boozing: :wink: :smiley:
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90 rear wheel, so a little less than a 23 year old Centauro
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At the crank or at the rear wheel?
It doesn't really matter though because only a small handful on this forum will actually purchase one.
I have very little interest in a bike with an exposed radiator. At least integrate it into the looks of the bike through choice in shape and use of shrouds.
The handlebars don't go with the flow of the bodywork. It makes it look like you are sitting on a motorcycle ride where you deposit 25 cents and go Vroom Vroom.
Hide the radiator better and put raised clip ons like the V7 Racer and it will probably sell a lot better than I think it will now.
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I've been looking at Triumph Bonnevilles as a replacement for my Audace. They are water cooled with the radiator being pretty well hidden. I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out.
kk
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This really is like trying to heard cats.
All manufactures use crank horsepower figures when giving horsepower numbers, unless, and this is quite rare, they specify rear wheel numbers! So therefore, your number should be what you think the CRANK hp will be.
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121 HP
99 ft/lbs
*Claimed*
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So what kinda cats we herding?? Pumas? Siamese? Manx?
115HP
Paul B :boozing:
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Great news! Just talked with Guzzi/Piaggio, they are offering a free V100 Mandelo up-spec model to the first person to post the correct published curb weight and HP!!!
So get your best guess in, and stay tuned.
:boozing: :boozing:
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Will be impossible to know the power of the new bike, because the power figure changes with the mass of the bike and rider.
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I’ll play
HP = 118
Torque = 80ftlbs
Weight = 505 lbs
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I'll say 116, just to be different.
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10 hp per lb .Har Har- that’s more like a fuel car
Actually in the range of ten lbs per hp starts getting fun.
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You got me on that one Tom, well played!
Correction, herd
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I took my comment down in recognition of your correction. :tongue:
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Hmmmm, I've got a few 2 strokes @~ 2/3's the weight; w/current gearing they can blow your socks out of yer shoes, with tied laces. R3~
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Hmmmm, I've got a few 2 strokes @~ 2/3's the weight; w/current gearing they can blow your socks out of yer shoes, with tied laces. R3~
Doesn't matter it's still a "stinkwheel" :)
Ciao
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I am goung to guess a solid "real world" number @110, and "claimed " # @115. Piaggio has held back a liquid guzzi for 10 years. lets hope the new mod. leapfrogs the advancements in tech over that time.
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My guess !
"Just enough"
TOMB
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I’m guessing it will be enough for most riders, but panned by the Moto journalists as underwhelming.
I’m also guessing it won’t be enough for the big block guys, and not enough compared to the Japanese competition.
Many of the competitors will be in the 130 - 150hp range. MG needs to be at least 125 and priced well to compete.
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I dunno what the hp and torque will be when the engine's running, but when the it's off, I'm fairly sure both will be close to zero...
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I've been saying for 25 years that even experienced rider can't sensibly use more than 100RWHP on modern roads. That would be more than adequate for me on a road bike. It was enough on my RC30, my 888 Ducati, my 1000SS Ducati, my RSV1000R Aprilia, my MVAgusta 750's, my Bimota DB1, my VFR750 Honda, my BMW R1100s etc etc.
Ciao
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Guzzis have always been "underpowered" against their "competiton", whatever that is. I have always thought the main competitor by mission are the BMW flat twins. As far as price goes, I am sure that the new Guzzi will come in at least 20% cheaper than a BMW RT or RS. The bodywork on the V100 looks closer to an RS than an RT, but in the BMW world, similarly equipped, the RS has always been close to the RT in price. Some may make an argument for the Rotax Beemers, but speaking for myself only, I have never bought into that as the Rotax Beemers were aimed at a different audience in price and mission, although the prices have crept steadily higher for those and with much more bodywork, they may be closer to an RS, but still no shaft drive. The V100 should match or slightly exceed them on HP and exceed them a little on torque, and looks, forgetaboutit. Not even close.
In spite of all of the disadvantages perceived by the press, with the advent of the V85 and new V7, they have managed to sell as many as they can ship. I am sure that will continue with the V100, but those looks could win some converts.
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117hp. Just because someone has already picked 115 and 116! And it will ride the wheels of any previous Guzzi except the MGS01....
I really want one, but my bank balance wont stand for that. But I would absolutely sell my B750 to go towards the funding... personally I love the looks and think it will be a hit......
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I've been saying for 25 years that even experienced rider can't sensibly use more than 100RWHP on modern roads. That would be more than adequate for me on a road bike. It was enough on my RC30, my 888 Ducati, my 1000SS Ducati, my RSV1000R Aprilia, my MVAgusta 750's, my Bimota DB1, my VFR750 Honda, my BMW R1100s etc etc.
Ciao
And that would be for only a few seconds at a time in first gear unless they are willing to risk a citation. I barely use all 50 something HP available with the V7III. I'm usually shifting before the peak hp rpms.
The interesting thing about motorcycles though is the weight difference between a 55 hp engine and a 100 hp engine is negligible. It is really whether you want to spend the extra money for the power and the higher insurance costs depending on type of bike.
I chose the FZ-07 over the FZ-09 at the time because I knew I didn't need the power of the FZ-09 and liked the looks of the FZ-07 better. If the FZ-09 would have brought more to the table than just power I might have bought it instead.
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Guzzis have always been "underpowered" against their "competiton", whatever that is. I have always thought the main competitor by mission are the BMW flat twins. As far as price goes, I am sure that the new Guzzi will come in at least 20% cheaper than a BMW RT or RS. The bodywork on the V100 looks closer to an RS than an RT, but in the BMW world, similarly equipped, the RS has always been close to the RT in price. Some may make an argument for the Rotax Beemers, but speaking for myself only, I have never bought into that as the Rotax Beemers were aimed at a different audience in price and mission, although the prices have crept steadily higher for those and with much more bodywork, they may be closer to an RS, but still no shaft drive. The V100 should match or slightly exceed them on HP and exceed them a little on torque, and looks, forgetaboutit. Not even close.
In spite of all of the disadvantages perceived by the press, with the advent of the V85 and new V7, they have managed to sell as many as they can ship. I am sure that will continue with the V100, but those looks could win some converts.
Well, if you put it that way, I would choose Moto Guzzi over BMW every day of the week. BMW might make great motorcycles, but they don't excite me at all. If the R-nine-T had a direct competitor from Moto Guzzi I would choose the Moto Guzzi every time.
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I’m willing to bet that (without Googling first), I’ll be hard pressed to find someone to provide a proper definition of what “power” is.
Anyone who knows the actual definition, will realise that in the real world, power is a mathematical value assigned to the rate at which work “has BEEN done”
Not
The rate at which work “CAN be done”
It’s Force x Distance/Time
Or
(Mass x acceleration) x Distance /time
So power will change every time you alter the mass, acceleration or time.
No engine in this world “has” power, it’s a numerical value assigned to a mathematical calculation.
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BMW might make great motorcycles, but they don't excite me at all. If the R-nine-T had a direct competitor from Moto Guzzi I would choose the Moto Guzzi every time.
I heartly agree having just purchased a second 2017 R9T Racer, as there was nothing Guzzi made or had made recently that suited my tastes.
The prices of the R9T range are pretty good and I was stunned at the build quality, having being used to Italian bikes.
On the road though it feels more akin to a Japanese 4 than an Italian twin, overall a bit souless.
To its credit though the box is terrific, feels like a chain drive, silky smooth compared to the 5 speed clunkers that I'm used to.
I'd have still rather have had a Guzzi though.
I've been saying for 25 years that even experienced rider can't sensibly use more than 100RWHP on modern roads. That would be more than adequate for me on a road bike.
Me too Phil and as twowheeladdict states I probably only use 50% of that.
The only bike that I wish had a little more power is my LM 1000 for overtaking but that's because I hate to wring its neck.
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No engine in this world “has” power, it’s a numerical value assigned to a mathematical calculation.
Surely a trifle pedantic Peter, or have I misunderstood?
You know fine well that it's a numerical value assigned to machine to determine what it's capable of when it's used, once it's used then it'll become past tense.
My take is that power isn't a good gauge of how an engine will feel on the road, torque and where it's produced are far more important.
Perhaps for the track or racing it is important, but my preference is for something that will whisk me along in the low and mid range, than being gutless until a gadzillion RPM at which point it starts to warp space and time
(didn't look at Google and it probably shows)
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Yes John.
I’m happy to mis use the term for the rest of my life and do most every day because it’s an accepted practice.
I just want the populous to understand there is a mistake there, because I think some of them care.
If I call a Breva a Norge, or a CX100 an 850 Le Mans, I will have fire and brimstone visited upon me. Is this not just as important or should I just say what’s generally accepted ?
Anyway, I’ll say that that the maximum calculated figure for a stock one will be 120 hp or 89.5 kW
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I’m guessing it will be enough for most riders, but panned by the Moto journalists as underwhelming.
I’m also guessing it won’t be enough for the big block guys, and not enough compared to the Japanese competition.
Many of the competitors will be in the 130 - 150hp range. MG needs to be at least 125 and priced well to compete.
The trend has been the opposite for the last few years. Most of the new bikes, save full on sportbikes, have been middleweights with usable power. This bike will certainly be the most powerful Moto Guzzi ever produced (horsepower, if not 1400 torque) and should slot into the market. This bike is almost identical to my Duc Supersport (113 HP) although it's very likely heavier.
One question is whether Guzzi riders want a bike with a 10k redline vs 7k?
Absolute power is one thing, powerband is everything.
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One question is whether Guzzi riders want a bike with a 10k redline vs 7k?
Absolute power is one thing, powerband is everything.
Which is why I am not an Inline 4 guy. I rarely realized the power potential of the Voyager XII and the Concours 14.
In fact, it was only after I pulled the cobra exhaust that came on the Voyager XII to install the OEM in preparation for sale that I realized there was a whole nuther engine in this bike once you revved past 4000. With the cobras 4000 rpms made it sound like it was ready to shift. With the OEM it would sail on up to redline and became an entirely different motorcycle.
Yep, I'll stay with thumpers and twins as much as possible. More usable power down low.
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To the tune of Taco’s Amadeus,
Lock me Amadeus!
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Why Chad ?
No none’s lost an eye... :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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To the tune of Taco’s Amadeus,
Lock me Amadeus!
But not everyone has had a chance to put up their guess. If you don't like the thread anymore you as the originator can delete it. Or maybe turn it into a poll with a range of answers.
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From LowRyter:
One question is whether Guzzi riders want a bike with a 10k redline vs 7k?
The 8V Norge sure feels like it would be happy to go to 10K if the rev limiter would let it.
GliderJohn
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I’ll play
HP = 118
Torque = 80ftlbs
Weight = 505 lbs
I'll agree with your guesstimate, I think you're pretty much on it.
Maybe a few more lbs though, so I'll say 515.
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I’m going to ask the powers that be to lock this thread starting tomorrow evening, 6:00 CDT or so. Winner will be notified when it seems appropriate!
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Which is why I am not an Inline 4 guy. I rarely realized the power potential of the Voyager XII and the Concours 14.
In fact, it was only after I pulled the cobra exhaust that came on the Voyager XII to install the OEM in preparation for sale that I realized there was a whole nuther engine in this bike once you revved past 4000. With the cobras 4000 rpms made it sound like it was ready to shift. With the OEM it would sail on up to redline and became an entirely different motorcycle.
Yep, I'll stay with thumpers and twins as much as possible. More usable power down low.
Ok? So? Are you are agreeing with me or just what else?
I might get your point if you hadn't picked a portion of my quote. So you like a old Kawasakis? Good for you. :sad:
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I’m going to ask the powers that be to lock this thread starting tomorrow evening, 6:00 CDT or so. Winner will be notified when it seems appropriate!
So, are giving a prize? If you are going to lock this and award a winner, there outta be a $ Jackson or Franklin.
Sorry but you deserve it. :wink: You know you do. :evil:
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From LowRyter:The 8V Norge sure feels like it would be happy to go to 10K if the rev limiter would let it.
GliderJohn
John, it won't, so there's that. :violent1:
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Guzzi says it will get 120HP.
My Guess it will be 95 at the rear wheel. Still the most powerful Guzzi.
But Chad, is the winner what Guzzi says (which is 120) or what's on the real world Dyno.
Here's a baseline: My V11 Sport ('01 Greenie) has a Power Commander, airbox mod, slip-ons and crossover and gets 77 at the rear wheel (Dyno Jet dyno). I've ridden Darren's and Brad's Grisos and I'd guess they get about 85 (at most). These bikes have good power curves, maybe not "absolute power."
:bow:
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Ok? So? Are you are agreeing with me or just what else?
I might get your point if you hadn't picked a portion of my quote. So you like a old Kawasakis? Good for you. :sad:
I am responding to the part of your post that I quoted. I am agreeing that it is the power band.
Do you consider the Concours 1400 an old Kawasaki.?
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104hp
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I am responding to the part of your post that I quoted. I am agreeing that it is the power band.
Do you consider the Concours 1400 an old Kawasaki.?
That bike is 15 years old and never caught on like an FJR. Old or new? Up to you. That's the facts, Jack. :popcorn:
So are your agreeing with me, or just starting something? :cheesy:
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John, where did Guzzi say it makes 120hp?
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John, where did Guzzi say it makes 120hp?
I think I read it one of the press releases or perhaps a journalist's speculation. But anywhere in 110-115 area would probably be close. Guzzi isn't going to make this bike into 14k rpm 150HP firebreather and put it in a sports tourer. It will likely run to 8-9k and have good torque curve. It will still be more powerful than anything Guzzi has offered before but won't have the torque of the 1400. Anyway, my guess.
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I see, just as I thought. :rolleyes:
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I see, just as I thought. :rolleyes:
BC, I sent U a couple PMs👍
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I'll have a punt at 100bhp with 90ft/lbs at something like 5k revs. I hope so anyway 👍
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I'd love to see a 10k redline, I dont know why that would be an issue?
In my area the roads are tight and twisty, would save me some shifts if I could sit in third gear and roll it up and down between 5k-9k, I think that would be about perfect for the blue ridge
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It has to be close to 140Hp to compete with the new R1250 engine (137Hp) and it's a 90degree liquid cooled motor with OHV (like Ducati) so my guess is that it's going to be around 142Hp.
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Bump:
BC has requested a lock be placed on the thread around 6:00PM central time, so a tally can be made from the responses so a winner can be named.
I’m only assisting BC with this endeavor therefore I have no idea what the prize will be for the winning guess, as to the closest calculation for the HP output of the new Guzzi coming out.
However, if I was a participant and took the time to register my calculation response, I’d demand my prize👍🤔😂😂😂
Good luck participants🤞
Dan
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How about 111BHP , and 92 F / lbs. ?
Do you think the models will differ? I guess the model set up with Ohlins will push 5 HP more.
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With 45 minute to go until lock down and I may have some inside information about the grand prize, I think it’s worth throwing my hat in the ring.
My official bid is 126 HP as the factory Spec.
I decline to say what the HP on the rear wheel is.
I will also offer a bid for torque spec being 90lb.
I also vote that multiple HP guesses such as 85-90 be invalid. Just saying so don’t kill the messenger.
Dan