Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Anomaly on November 08, 2021, 08:27:42 PM
-
One block after leaving my usual coffee shop, I entered an intersection on a green light. I always slow some at intersections. Pickup truck on my right sitting stopped at his red light. As I entered the intersection, he pulls out to make a right turn. 10 feet between us, oncoming traffic in the opposing lane limited my options... I put the bike down. Relatively minimal damage to the V7 Classic. A bit more damage to me but I'll be OK (sure glad I had gear on...). Anyway, the point of this post is to solicit safety ideas-- thinking of things like air horns, strobe lights, ... Ideas? Thoughts?
-
I'm sorry to hear about your accident.
I have a pair of 10 Watt spots on my V7, they sure make you more visible.
-
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48184649176_096afd5943.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48184252317_891d31a3a8.jpg)
-
LED spots are pretty easy to install and ratchet visibility way up. Dual Fiamm or other horns are nice for when someone starts to pull out. I’m so glad you are ok.
-
The Motor Patrol in my town use Clearwater (spendy) Lights with yellow lenses. They really stand out even in the daytime. Everyone knows it's a Motorcycle Cop by those lights and drive accordingly.
I purchased some little Denali's from Revzilla with yellow lenses, not installed yet. I'm hoping oncoming traffic will give me a little extra attention.
Even in my little burg, traffic has gotten more troublesome but what do you expect with 30,000,000 more people in the state than 50 years ago?
Mark
-
For all my opinion's worth
In order of usefulness
Visibility, brighter headlight and aux LEDs
Improved brakes and/or knowing how much you can choke that right lever and still stay upright
Horns have very ocassionally helped me, but they require to be applied way early, to the point I could probably have stopped should the situation develop.
In a panic "OH SHIT" moment I never have had the time to use the horn and if I did I doubt the offending vehicle user would have time to process where the sound was coming from what it meant and take appropriate action
-
Slow slower slowest
-
Sorry to hear of your accident. Best wishes for a speedy recovery! Be well.
-
Sorry to hear he pulled out..
Shame his father didn’t...
-
Dead horse and all, but be ready for it. Expect people to get pull out in front of you, cover the front brake lever, wiggle the bike in your lane to cause your light to move around.
-
Dead horse and all, but be ready for it. Expect people to get pull out in front of you, cover the front brake lever, wiggle the bike in your lane to cause your light to move around.
:thumb:
In addition to what Chad posted, Hi-Viz Gear and Helmet help you be seen. If you had a bike with ABS you would not have gone down, so practice heading for the edge of the lane as you lay on the horn.
Practicing your swerve maneuvers and emergency braking in an empty parking lot goes a long way towards keeping control of your motorcycle.
If you haven't already, pick up books by David Hough. "Proficient Motorcycling", "More Proficient Motorcycling", and "Street Strategies" will help put the hazards unique to motorcyclists into the recall areas of the brain so you will know them when you see them.
-
I've had good luck with headlight modulators. Low beam works normal. Put on the highbeam at night (there is a light sensor) and the highbeam works normal. Put the high beam on in the day time and it blinks quickly like a strobe. To be legal it has to flicker at or above a minimum frequency so it is not confused with an emergency vehicle.
I've had people pull over in front of me to let me pass (probably thinking I was a police officer or it's just annoying). I've had people pull over just to tell me, "Hey, I think there's something wrong with your headlight - It's blinking."
Is it annoying? Yes. Does it garner attention in the day? Yes.
On bikes that I don't have a headlight modulator installed, I typically try to ride with the high beam on during the day unless someone is in front of me.
-
Lights, High-Viz, wiggle are all good techniques.
Modulators?!? - I'm of the opinion some idiots are just as likely to think you've flashed them to tell them to go ahead and turn. Why confuse the ones that are already dumb.
But none of that stuff REALLY matters when it comes down to it. Cover the brake, act like you are invisible, expect every moron to pull out, slow down at intersections, leave yourself an escape etc etc etc.
And just because you typed it, I HAVE TO ADDRESS the elephant in the room. In training decades ago I was told it is NEVER* the right idea to "put/lay the bike down" because even if you wind up hitting a solid target the amount of time spent upright on the brakes will scrub MORE speed than a slide so that your impact will be with lower momentum/energy than if you "put it down".
*Never use the word never, there's likely to be some freaky exception and I recognize that, but the chances that our mere mortal selves WILL recognize the exception in the heat of them moment is slim to almost none so the "best" course of action is to brake like a SOB as long as you possibly can pucker. Good luck in the future.
-
Sorry to hear he pulled out..
Shame his father didn’t...
Dang it Huzo! I spit my coffee out with that one. :thumb:
Skippy
-
Glad you were not hurt any worse or the bike.
Over the years of investigating vehicular accidents I’ve came to the conclusion that there are accidents where no one actually did anything technically wrong and that sometimes accidents are actually are accidents and fall in the “it happens “ category.
Therefore here’s my take
- obey all traffic laws
- ride defensively
- remember the rule “what can happen will happen”
- ride in proper riding gear and keep your bike up to par
- be willing to accept the fact that we are engaged in a dangerous by nature choice of riding a motorcycle and be willing to accept the consequences.
-
A loud horn can be handy but as has been pointed out it’s not the best use of the minimal time you have to avoid bad things. Anytime you can see the side of a car, you are in danger. I watch the top of the tire in relation to the fender, that is your first indication of movement and with practice you can judge it’s speed. Practice emergency braking and train your mind to always look for a way out. Try never to contact anything like a bumper, curb, light pole , culvert and so on. If you crash and slide you can usually walk away but if you hit something you can get seriously injured. Ride it out, like Kev said, the coefficient of friction is much greater between asphalt and rubber than it is between asphalt and steel & plastic. When someone says “I had to lay it down” it means “ I screwed up” . When something unusual happens, watch for trouble, often events start cascading. An example is : a car pulls out in front of me. No problem, I take action to avoid it but while I’m processing that, the car behind him pulls out as well. That’s when the bee stings you and so on.
-
As well as watching the tire for rotation, look at the driver's eyes. If he is not making eye contact with you assume he/she will pull out. If they are making eye contact then your odds are more like 50/50. My primary rule of life ever since high school.....trust everyone, but cut the cards.
-
And just because you typed it, I HAVE TO ADDRESS the elephant in the room. In training decades ago I was told it is NEVER* the right idea to "put/lay the bike down" because even if you wind up hitting a solid target the amount of time spent upright on the brakes will scrub MORE speed than a slide so that your impact will be with lower momentum/energy than if you "put it down".
Agreed, that's the first thing that struck me when I read the OP's comment. Also, remember that a motorcycle is narrow. With the pickup in the center of your lane, and the oncoming vehicles in the center of their lane, there is typically a four to six foot wide "hole" between them*. It depends on your speed and timing of the pickup's goof, but that's usually an option. Also, braking hard requires practice. You HAVE to do it regularly to stay in shape.
As for prevention, lighting is the only option that might have caught the trucker's eye. Unless you want to beep your horn before every intersection.
*For American and Canadian roads.
-
Maybe I'm a bit dim but I can't see this in my minds eye. May I ask you, we're you both heading in the same direction in different lanes? Was the car at the junction on your right and facing you waiting to turn right? I just can't figure out how you would both be occupying the same space.
Glad you came out of it relatively unscathed, sounds like a close call.
-
[/quote]
Maybe I'm a bit dim but I can't see this in my minds eye. May I ask you, we're you both heading in the same direction in different lanes? Was the car at the junction on your right and facing you waiting to turn right? I just can't figure out how you would both be occupying the same space.
Glad you came out of it relatively unscathed, sounds like a close call.
Your confusion might have to do with the fact that Americans drive on the opposite side of the road vs Brits. The pickup truck was stopped at the intersection, on the road which crossed the Anomaly's path and to the right of Anomaly. As Anomaly entered the intersection, the truck turned right on to Anomaly's road, occupying the same lane and now going in the same direction.
In Britain, the equivalent situation would be you approaching an intersection. A vehicle is stopped on the intersecting road, at your left. The driver doesn't see you and makes the left turn right in front of you, into your lane. Hope that helps!
-
Your confusion might have to do with the fact that Americans drive on the opposite side of the road vs Brits. The pickup truck was stopped at the intersection, on the road which crossed the Anomaly's path and to the right of Anomaly. As Anomaly entered the intersection, the truck turned right on to Anomaly's road, occupying the same lane and now going in the same direction.
In Britain, the equivalent situation would be you approaching an intersection. A vehicle is stopped on the intersecting road, at your left. The driver doesn't see you and makes the left turn right in front of you, into your lane. Hope that helps!
Got it now, I've had a junction in mind, not an intersection. Thanks for clearing that up. 👌
-
As well as watching the tire for rotation, look at the driver's eyes. If he is not making eye contact with you assume he/she will pull out. If they are making eye contact then your odds are more like 50/50. My primary rule of life ever since high school.....trust everyone, but cut the cards.
I don’t agree, I’ve had em look me square in the eyes and still pull out. They don’t register you the same as if you were face to face. Besides that I don’t want a personal relationship between us so what matters to me is avoiding contact .
-
I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. Hope you heal up quickly.
wiggle the bike in your lane to cause your light to move around.
I do this as a matter of course in traffic, but this is the first time I've seen it in print.
Move around LATERALLY in your lane - THAT movement is MUCH easier for the human
eye to spot.
Mind you, I wasn't there. But as others have said, you're ALMOST always better off keeping
the bike upright. The bike will always slide further down the road on it's side than it will if
it's upright and the brakes are on. If both you AND the bike are sliding down the road, you'll
usually stop first. (If you high side and land in front of the bike, it will PUSH you down the
road. One time doing that was enough for me, thanks. :laugh:)
As a famous general once said, it's not what you THINK the enemy will do - you've got to prepare
for what the enemy is CAPABLE of doing.
And anticipation is SO much more important than reflexes - especially in traffic.
-Stretch
-
I don’t agree, I’ve had em look me square in the eyes and still pull out. They don’t register you the same as if you were face to face. Besides that I don’t want a personal relationship between us so what matters to me is avoiding contact .
There an article somewhere on the internet in which a fighter pilot explains how this can happen. I forgotten the details but is a kind of blind spot.
Also forget the horn you are losing precious braking time and stopping distance. The horn is there to beep a friendly greeting to someone you know.
kk
-
Moparnut, I think this is it:
https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-fighter-pilots-guide-to-surviving-on-the-roads/ (https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-fighter-pilots-guide-to-surviving-on-the-roads/)
Definitely worth a read.
-Stretch
-
A bit of a reconstruction..
If you were 10’ from the guy when he (illegally) pulled out, yet your bike damage was minimal. Your speed as you applied the brakes was maybe what...15 mph ?
You further state that you slowed at the intersection.
From the outset I’ll say that the car driver was totally in the wrong, but here’s the thing as I see it.
The guy only has to be mentally wandering off a bit as he’s looking at you and as he’s processing what your intentions are, he’s forgotten about his red light. Now he sees a bike coming towards him that’s slowing from its established speed to 10 mph. If he’s not reading your mind correctly, he’ll be disposed towards thinking subliminally that you’re expecting him to move...
So he does.
If he’s either distracted, tired, frustrated, angry or impatient and he just wants to get going, the first inkling from you that you’re expecting or allowing him to go first, will result in him impulsively doing just that.
It’s a form of believing someone when they’re telling you what you want to hear.
Dangerous stuff.
Back in a previous life I read some stuff on the topic of information lock, it’s when your brain refuses to take on any more input, regardless of how important it may be.
There was a guy I knew who was at the end of a long cross country flight in a glider and was setting up a circuit into a field.
Tired and dehydrated, he had the aircraft on final after an altogether hazardously low final turn...
There was a screaming sound in his ears and by his own admission, he “couldn’t be bothered dealing with anything else...” :rolleyes:
Ten seconds later he came to a grinding halt in the paddock....The screaming sound was the landing gear warning, he still had the wheel up... :sad:
Point is..
In the situation our car driver was in, you don’t have to do ONE thing wrong to have an accident...
You have to do EVERYTHING right, not to.....
There’s a big difference.. :popcorn:
-
White helmet :thumb:
-
Unfortunately I do not think there is anything to do other then hope and pray it doesn't happen. People run into police cars, fire trucks, tow trucks, ambulances, construction vehicles that have lights flashing and/or sirens blaring everyday. Not sure a couple driving lights or a hi-vis vest really do anything other than make the rider feel like they are doing somethgin to help themselves.
We've all had that person at the intersection make eye contact with you, nod they head and smile and then pull right out in front of you :cry:
Thanks. And thanks to those of you who actually responded with suggestions about increasing one's visibility. That is what I hoped this thread would be about. Sigh, some of you just can't resist the hero/tough guy role-- sure YOU could have handled the situation, emerged unscathed, etc. The facts are, there WILL be a situation (think the t-bone scenario) where nothing can be done. Except try to avoid getting into that situation in the first place which comes down to visibility (but yes, some people don't see firetrucks....). Twisted Throttle is just up the road from me and I talked to them about both air horns and strobe lights but to be clear, the thought here is not to try to use these once the situation has become critical, but rather in advance, say, before even entering an intersection. I had not thought (nor did the rep at Twisted Throttle who had such a setup on his personal bike) of the potential for a strobe light to be interpreted as a signal to another driver to go ahead-- but in fact it is standard practice around here to flash your high beams to tell another driver, say at a four-way, to go ahead. So thanks to whoever it was who pointed that downside out.
To those of you who have mounted extra lights (thinking now of non-strobe applications), how did you mount them?
-
Unless I missed it, I didn't read anyone here as saying it might not have happened to us. It's simply a risk we all face.
I've definitely crashed because of my own mistakes.
And there's no guarantee against anyone else's.
We can only do the best we can
-
Sorry you went down brother, heal up!
Growing up in the NYC environs, and living in all kinds of cities the last 40 years, I always add secondary Head and Tail lights for any bike I expect to ride in towns, cities, or with cross streets, and love the LED options. Swapped in a LED Head and Tail light bulb, and added extra front and rear lights. I also upgraded the horns to be louder.
(https://i.ibb.co/nrG263z/IMG-20191207-132410863-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nrG263z)
(https://i.ibb.co/5hRQvnR/IMG-20190629-132447031.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5hRQvnR)
(https://i.ibb.co/h7SbvJs/IMG-20180811-173436848.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h7SbvJs)
(https://i.ibb.co/f45vQ1s/IMG-20180805-174911499.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f45vQ1s)
But as others have said, I ride like I am invisible, and take no chances if at all possible, and EXPECT some maroon to do the wrong thing putting me in danger. I also wear a light colored jacket and helmet.
-
Unless I missed it, I didn't read anyone here as saying it might not have happened to us.
Yep.
Nothing I said was as a criticism.
If it was me, let me know.
-
I mounted tip over bars for the sole purpose of having a place to mount LED running lights. I also mounted SkeneDesign Run/Brake LEDs on either side of the license plate for the tailgaters.
(https://i.ibb.co/H43y39x/V7-IMG-1478.jpg) (https://ibb.co/H43y39x)
(https://i.ibb.co/VSttDXf/V7-lights.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VSttDXf)
https://www.skenelights.com/
-
Back in a previous life I read some stuff on the topic of information lock, it’s when your brain refuses to take on any more input, regardless of how important it may be.
Point is..
In the situation our car driver was in, you don’t have to do ONE thing wrong to have an accident...
You have to do EVERYTHING right, not to.....
There’s a big difference.. :popcorn:
That information lock is something I’ve noticed in myself, more than I would like. When I’m tired and not feeling the best if I get a touch of hypothermia I’m susceptible to shutting down information intake. So far it’s not noticeable to others unless that’s part of the information I’m not processing….
-
Moparnut, I think this is it:
https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-fighter-pilots-guide-to-surviving-on-the-roads/ (https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-fighter-pilots-guide-to-surviving-on-the-roads/)
Definitely worth a read.
-Stretch
That's it, thanks. Every bike rider should read this. Eye opening.
kk
-
If I approach an intersection as you have described, I try to make eye contact with any driver. If they are not looking at me, a quick couple of horn honks (short, quick, not obnoxious) usually gets a head to turn. I ride on whichever side of the road I perceive the threats to come from because I think it gets more attention and it gives me more room to work if needed. I constantly plan my escape routes so I can react without thinking. I also have a white helmet and wear a high-viz endowed jacket. Stack the deck as far in my favor as I can, and deal with it when it comes. And as others have mentioned, learn how far you can push your bike. Most people really don't practice braking or swerving at the limit, and have no idea how far they can go, causing them to bail out on avoidance when there was still enough time to complete the save.
-
That information lock is something I’ve noticed in myself, more than I would like. When I’m tired and not feeling the best if I get a touch of hypothermia I’m susceptible to shutting down information intake. So far it’s not noticeable to others unless that’s part of the information I’m not processing….
An astute piece of self observation.... :thumb:
I’m an absolute bugger for reading a sentence and anticipating the second half, I think it’s getting worse.
-
I think the problem with some drivers is that they don't look in the 0-5 meter range they are looking further down the road for a vehicle coming at speed. A friend of mine was riding his pushbike to work, he was just about crossing a t junction as a car approached from his left. The car came through the intersection turning left and hit his front wheel throwing him from the bike. First thing the woman driver said was "Sorry I didn't see you I was looking down the road to my right". Luckily he wasn't hurt.
-
I've had some time to kill recently and wasted some if it on YouTube watching biker v car v idiot driver v etc. etc.
It stuck me just how many riders in the event of danger pull the clutch in and bounce the engine off the rev limiter no doubt following the "loud pipes save lives" philosophy
This is often followed by their running into what got their attention in the first place - often at low speed
It seems to suggest that applying the brakes first is a very good plan
Tris
PS I hope you get fit and well again soon
-
I've had some time to kill recently and wasted some if it on YouTube watching biker v car v idiot driver v etc. etc.
It stuck me just how many riders in the event of danger pull the clutch in and bounce the engine off the rev limiter no doubt following the "loud pipes save lives" philosophy
This is often followed by their running into what got their attention in the first place - often at low speed
It seems to suggest that applying the brakes first is a very good plan
Tris
That is an embarrassing display of an emotional response to an adrenal dump into the body after a stressor. It tells me the person doing it is unfamiliar with their bodies adrenal system doing what it’s supposed to. It’s a sign that the person usually responds to a threat with their monkey brain, not with their lizard brain. It’s also a sign that indicates that person may not be reliable in a sudden life or death situation because it takes some work to be able to deal with an adrenal dump after the immediate threat has passed. It can be a dangerous time for them because their brain is processing things differently until the adrenaline is reabsorbed.
-
Increasing your visibility front and back is a good idea but is difficult to achieve in practice. Reflective jackets work well but the colour choice is important. Lots of road and construction workers wear them and as a result people sub consciously ignore them. If the workers wear orange, go for a different colour. If yellow the same applies. You want to stand out, not blend in.
Pink or red would be great but a long metal spike in the middle of every car steering wheel would work better.
-
Hey here is a revolutionary idea- how about some real driver training? The root of the problem is the drivers not paying attention. The cultural complacency of driving. All the hi-viz and loud horns ain't gonna protect you against an idiot car driver. Case in point (and you all have similar stories) - three of us following my friend who was riding a bright yellow goldwing, wearing very hi-viz helmet, jacket, gloves etc comes within inches of getting nailed by a guy pulling out of a parking lot. We all had to stop pronto cause this car driver swerved and almost got the rest of us. You know what he said ? " I didn't SEE you" I yelled back "Don't drive if you are blind" expletive expletive expletive.
People grow up in automobiles. They do not understand the danger and responsibility of vehicle operation. Complacency.
Another factor is brain function. The primitive part of our brain sees and evaluates threats on a rapid subconscious level. Out in the wild threats, predators, animals, are horizontal. Non threats, trees etc are vertical. Horizontal-threat. Vertical-no threat. So when a dull of mind motorist sees an oncoming motorcycle it just doesn't register as it is vertical- no threat, pull out and boom.
We as motorcyclists see cars as horizontal objects and treat them as a very real threat, justifiably so as every driver is a potential danger.
I know what you are thinking- There is a word for people who think everyone is out to get them. Yeah- Perceptive!
-
....... and to follow on I guess that 95% of people pass their test and are NEVER retested to see if they have developed any bad habits
I had a 20 year gap between my car test and later doing the bike test
I drive the car now with shoulder checks that i didn't do so much before
-
Wiggle headlight and Hi Viz to gain attention - and no one has mentioned.... Learn to use your brakes! "Laying it down" is HAVING an accident to avoid an accident mentality. 12 years a MSF instructor. No one practices hard braking enough, including me and I won't ever own a bike without ABS! ABS saved my bacon the first week I got my New Victory CCT when Bambi jumped out in front of me on a country road just after sunset!
-
Dang it Huzo! I spit my coffee out with that one. :thumb:
Skippy
LOL ROTFL!
-
OK, I see that some clarifications are in order (some details I left out of my original post because I really just wanted to focus on the visibility issue....). To clarify: I wear a totally white helmet. Immediately after the accident, when I asked the other driver why he had pulled out in front of me, he did NOT say it was because I had slowed slightly upon entering the intersection. He said...wait for it... "I didn't see you." (he has since changed his story to the insurance company...). As for my statement that I put the bike down, I see now that that is loaded phrasing for some of you-- I should have said I went down on/with the bike. Apparently, there is a "strategy" of willingly going down on the bike. I don't buy that strategy. Rather, I was braking hard. HARD, and trying to steer slightly to the left to the narrow gap between the truck and the oncoming traffic in the opposing lane. Traffic I might add that was going 45 mph (speeding is a civic duty for some drivers in RI). If you want to critique something, critique my braking-- I'm leery of using too much front brake (seen people launch themselves over their handlebars...)-- I was using the front brake to be sure, but really cranking on the rear brake and heard/felt the rear wheel lock up just before I went down. I still thing that that outcome (as painful as it is proving to be for me/my body) was better than hitting the truck which would have caused more damage to me and much more to the bike.
As for some of the other comments-- no, I have never heard of using the clutch to rev the engine to create a loud noise. This sounds like a stupid idea, I doubt one could really do it anyway in the milliseconds involved in a situation like I was in, AND it misses the point of what I hope to focus on with this thread: making noise, by any means, as a crash is imminent is unlikely to change the outcome. Getting the attention of a dopey cager well before such at situation develops is what I wanted to focus on. And, as was pointed out, even this is not a sure thing as yes, some people hit fire trucks and the like with full lights and sirens going and say "I didn't see you."
So, thanks again for the responses focused on the visibility theme. That point about people becoming inured to bright safety colors because of exposure to roadside workers costumes is one I hadn't thought of. Meanwhile, talking with the folks at Twisted Throttle and also looking hard at the lineup from Skenes (thanks for that link).
-
If that last post doesn't make you think hard about riding a bike with ABS, then you may just learn the hard way.
-
Wait a minute ???
Pickup truck on my right sitting stopped at his red light. As I entered the intersection, he pulls out to make a right turn. 10 feet between us,
So truck is on the right , you pass on the left , the truck turns right , where's the problem ?
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-12-volt-electric-horn-set-99911.html?_br_psugg_q=car+horn
These are really loud and come with a relay you can run off the Battery ! :grin:
I ride with my head light on dim so I can use the "Passing Flash" to get attention when I need it . It works good
................... ..................
I wasn't there so I don't mean to question a quick desission but : I always understood that bikes stop faster if they stay on their wheels ? :undecided:
-
I think Tris was lamenting the fact that some riders engage in the foolish ’rev bombing’ and was not advocating it.
-
Wait a minute ???
Pickup truck on my right sitting stopped at his red light. As I entered the intersection, he pulls out to make a right turn. 10 feet between us,
So truck is on the right , you pass on the left , the truck turns right , where's the problem ?
He was ENTERING the intersection from the right (the street at right angles to the one I was on, I had the green light, he had the red light). It was a two lane road, "on the left", of me, was oncoming traffic...
Does that clarify the problem?
-
I think Tris was lamenting the fact that some riders engage in the foolish ’rev bombing’ and was not advocating it.
Understood. I was agreeing it was foolish. And non-productive in the situation under discussion. But, again, what I hoped to discuss was the visibility issue...
-
Yes ,
You know any of us could get in that same situation on any ride . I'm glad you brought it up.
Funny in a way , but we never know for sure what we'll do when a panic situation pops up ?
Heck , I just use the front brake for all my stopping needs and leave the rear brake only for parking lot manovers , the rear is in charge of pushing and wears out fast enough as it is. The added benfit of stopping with the front brake only is that I'm really well acquainted with it and its also turns into "the natural first line of defense" .
-
Here is a story for ya !
So , when I got my V-7II home and unloaded I naturally took it out for a little ride-a-bout. Well I kept thinking about that nice BIG FRONT DISK ... and how powerful it must be . The road was dry so I got a mind to do a "STOPPIE" ! :grin:
It didn't end like I thought it would .
From about 35mph the rear came off the ground and then in a mili-second :grin:- the front brake turned loose ! Then in another mili-second it grabbed again and I was stopped ! Well that was that !
I think it stopped in about 12 feet . :rolleyes:
-
I think Tris was lamenting the fact that some riders engage in the foolish ’rev bombing’ and was not advocating it.
Thanks John that's exactly my position
I see DLR/head lights, high vis gear and moving the bike in the lane as the first line of defence against the cagers but don't expect it to be especially effective
The second line is ME doing my best to avoid them and not put myself where they can get me - but I'm fallible
You can only try and stack the cards in your favour and hope if it goes wrong it's not too bad an incident
-
- I was using the front brake to be sure, but really cranking on the rear brake and heard/felt the rear wheel lock up just before I went down. I still thing that that outcome (as painful as it is proving to be for me/my body) was better than hitting the truck which would have caused more damage to me and much more to the bike.
Physics suggests you were wrong about this.
But like I said, it could happen to any of us, esoterically if we make the same mistake.
-
From about 35mph the rear came off the ground and then in a mili-second :grin:- the front brake turned loose ! Then in another mili-second it grabbed again and I was stopped ! Well that was that !
I think it stopped in about 12 feet . :rolleyes:
Does that model have ABS?
It sounds like that could have come into play, or the front wheel lost traction for a millisecond.
As we all know the front brake providing it's squeezed progressively can cope with incredible braking force before losing traction if the conditions are right, if they're not then a low side is the usual outcome and the bike slides from under you.
It seemed totally counterintuitive to me at first and God knows how many times I've lost the rear stomping too hard on it, but now I hardly use it.
On my Ducati it was next to useless anyway.
Glad everything was Ok, I'd never give anybody riding tips, I'm just good enough to be dangerous
-
Does that model have ABS?
It sounds like that could have come into play, or the front wheel lost traction for a millisecond.
As we all know the front brake providing it's squeezed progressively can cope with incredible braking force before losing traction if the conditions are right, if they're not then a low side is the usual outcome and the bike slides from under you.
Yes, a V7-II is the first V7 to have ABS.
Uhh, and wouldn't a front lock = a highside? Like over the bars? (I know that's how I did the superman slide down the street in the rain a long LONG time ago on a Honda VT500 Ascot).
-
I guess that would depend if it
a) wheel locked and gripped - over the bars
b) wheel locked and slipped - low side
I'm not sure I have the band width to compute the difference in the time frame as either way I'd likely be coming off :grin:
-
Not AFAIK, just anectodal and only happened a couple of times to me at close to walking speed, but when the front has slid away the bike immediatley went down and quick, taking me with it.
Don't doubt you for a second Kev its just I've never highsided from a loss of the front, I didn't even think that was possible (idiots trying extreme stoppies excepted).
Highsides (purely a priory knowledge) is getting greedy or sudden with the throttle usually in a bend, the rear breaks traction, rider comes off the throttle and traction is restablished. The unloading and subsequent shock loading of the rear shock results in a slingshot punting the rider over the front of the bike
Like I said I'm not even competent let alone knowlegable
Tris beat me to it
-
I guess that would depend if it
a) wheel locked and gripped - over the bars
b) wheel locked and slipped - low side
I'm not sure I have the band width to compute the difference in the time frame as either way I'd likely be coming off :grin:
Good point.
I guess I always assumed you go over the bars (from my N = 1 experience) but I guess it depends on that and also if there was any lean prior too I would think. Maybe weight bias and terrain (uphill, downhill, flat) could play a part. Life is complicated.
Not AFAIK, just anectodal and only happened a couple of times to me at close to walking speed, but when the front has slid away the bike immediatley went down and quick, taking me with it.
Don't doubt you for a second Kev its just I've never highsided from a loss of the front, I didn't even think that was possible (idiots trying extreme stoppies excepted).
Highsides (purely a priory knowledge) is getting greedy or sudden with the throttle usually in a bend, the rear breaks traction, rider comes off the throttle and traction is restablished. The unloading and subsequent shock loading of the rear shock results in a slingshot punting the rider over the front of the bike
Like I said I'm not even competent let alone knowlegable
Tris beat me to it
:thumb:
I think Mongo (me) was making ASSumptions again... :boozing:
-
NO , NO , NO Guys !
That "Over the Handlebars thing is a myth" , Unless you hit something ! :violent1:
The V-7II is the first bike I'd had with ABS .
Here's another TRUE story for ya :
So , me and my buddies Dave and Stew are running Blood Mountain in North Ga. and going down the SOUTH side I came out of a right hand twist WAY-TOO-FAST and a left twist was comming up WAY-TOO-SOON . They weren't even keeping up (to smart I guess).
I sort of panicked and grabbed a handful of front brake that resulted in losing 10 mph in seemly 10 feet. That next left hand twist still came up before I was set up for it - but - the big danger was over.
Later that evening at camp I was cleaning the bike and noticed a (.75" x .125") rip going side to side on the front tire then a newish Sport Demon tire. In my mind I'm sure where it came from but I'd never be able to prove it ... and there's no need to either.
My point is : No over the handlebars unless you connect with something major. I've hit dogs that weigh up to 40# from 50-ish mph and there is always a jolt and the handlebars try to come out of your hands but "Bump-Bump" and its over.
-
NO , NO , NO Guys !
That "Over the Handlebars thing is a myth" , Unless you hit something ! :violent1:
No I totally went over the bars with a locked front wheel on pavement, downhill, in the rain and did a superman slide toward the intersection. The tiny little Honda folded under me and left me behind. My helmet never even hit the ground as I stared down the hill toward the headlights of the car that had stopped at the red light and had NOT made a left in front of me as it turned yellow (as I'd anticipated).
The most humiliating part of the experience was that both bike and I stopped before the light so if I hadn't been so ham fisted we both could have stopped upright.
But I was young and dumb(er) and grabbed WAY too much brake that morning, so I sat at my desk with ice from the company cafeteria on my knee dripping slowly into my waste basket as it melted. Well, after picking the bike up and man handling the handlebars straight enough to ride it the rest of the way to work.
I think I continued to wear those rain pants with duct tape over the new holes for a while, till I finally could afford waterproof Aerostich pants with ARMOR.
Ahhhhhh my twenties.... good times, good times....
-
Kev
On wet pavement I'm surprised you had the traction to lift the rear tire . The idea makes me want to run the front tire a touch on the soft side.
Or
That LITTLE HONDA thing ... I had one (65 SS) that only weighed 160# , and I was only 125# ...
so
Yea I can picture it ! :embarrassed:
That little bike sure was easy to flip around ... :smiley:
................
Hay that makes me think of rake angle and wheelbase, but that's another topic
-
Kev
On wet pavement you didn't have the traction to lift the rear tire , it must have slid out from under ya.
Or
That LITTLE HONDA thing ... I had one that (65 SS) that only weighed 160# , and I was only 125# ...
so
Yea I can picture it ! :embarrassed:
That little bike sure was easy to flip around ... :smiley:
................
Hay that makes me think of rake angle and wheelbase, but that's another topic
Look I know I'm going back decades on memory, but downhill (steep) and more importantly I hit the ground IN FRONT OF IT and the bike wound up behind me (though off to the side a bit). So maybe it's semantics how I went over of it or it slid out from under (but backwards), meaning the rear didn't raise up and launch me, but the bike disappeared from under me and I sailed down the road in front of it on my belly.
-
Yea Kev
Just trying to get a mental picture of things as we go along.
After thinking on it a bit I can see where if bike and ridder weigh about the same things could change a lot. :laugh: :laugh:
At one time one of my cousins had a little dual sport 100cc that couldn't have weighed as much as he did. Seems like its name started with a "H" . I believe we pronounced it "Ho-da-ka-" That was a long time ago ?
I hope you only had one time playing Super Man ! It doesn't seem like it would be fun.
-
Yea Kev
Just trying to get a mental picture of things as we go along.
After thinking on it a bit I can see where if bike and ridder weigh about the same things could change a lot. :laugh: :laugh:
At one time one of my cousins had a little dual sport 100cc that couldn't have weighed as much as he did. Seems like its name started with a "H" . I believe we pronounced it "Ho-da-ka-" That was a long time ago ?
I hope you only had one time playing Super Man ! It doesn't seem like it would be fun.
:thumb:
Yeah I've managed to avoid it ever since and will stride to keep doing so.
Now I DID low side in sand at least once, that sucked too, but less.