Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Beowulf on November 30, 2021, 07:41:45 AM
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So I really love this bike but this is the second time it’s left me stranded. First it was the kickstand switch and I bypassed that and ran for quite some time. At 5600 miles it has decided to not start. It flashes a message “alarm ecu disc”. Any thoughts appreciated.
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I'm guessing that "disc" might mean disconnected or disconnection. Check the main plug for the ECU, it may have become unseated. Good luck.
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You might want to have it checked w/dealer software.
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On the eve of my departure for my 2014 Europe trip, I went to start my Norge and an “ECU disconnect” warning came up on the panel.
It turned out to be a buggered rely.
ECU disconnect warnings are not necessarily ECU related. If you have Guzzidiag, you can check for a code.
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So I really love this bike but this is the second time it’s left me stranded. First it was the kickstand switch and I bypassed that and ran for quite some time. At 5600 miles it has decided to not start. It flashes a message “alarm ecu disc”. Any thoughts appreciated.
According to the User+Maintenence book
"ALARM ECU DISC" means "Electronic Control Unit disconnected alarm" -
If no connection is detected, the instrument panel indicates this anomaly by displaying the "Alarm ECU Disc" text
Page 33 of the English text.
Relays and fuses would be a good starting point. Also disconnecting the battery for a few minutes might allow the ECU to reset.
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Appreciate the responses going to take it to the dealer. Will update. Would a bad kill switch do this?
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No a kill switch doesn't give an error.
The dash and ecu are connected over CAN bus. What the thing is, the dash can't talk to the ecu, so it tells you the ecu doesn't talk. The ecu is in the throttlebody integrated. So getting no power or failing a ground contact could be a thing. Or the connector on it could be not seated.
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Hope this is something simple. Keep us posted please.
Sarah
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So to add to the comedy of this situation my wife's car broke down and I'm almost done fixing that(turbo gave it up). Then same day the Guzzi threw a fit her bike threw a tantrum which turned out to be bad gas. Her bike is running tip top now no issues. so rather eventful week. I will update as things progress. Several guys from my fire station are helping me load up the bike today to go to the dealer so this should be interesting.
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Several guys from my fire station are helping me load up the bike today to go to the dealer so this should be interesting.
Sound like a Chinese Fire Drill around that place.. :evil:
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So included here is a poorly marked up picture to protect the guilty….. we got the bike loaded without incident and lifted it into my friends pickup after work. We made it to the dealer without issue and they will start diagnosing tomorrow.
The second picture is me in process of replacing the turbo that went out. Thought maybe you like to see the adventure.
(https://i.ibb.co/FV38FFP/EA5-F6-DAA-27-B3-4898-9143-C53-E6-ED5-D2-D1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FV38FFP)
(https://i.ibb.co/xGRT4dj/6-FCC25-AB-6-E63-4-BF9-910-D-06-A2-C9160-E23.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xGRT4dj)
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2 minutes to change the turbo and 4 hours to get to it and then put everything back. Been there, sucks.
Good luck with the bike, hope it's simple!
Tom
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2 minutes to change the turbo and 4 hours to get to it and then put everything back. Been there, sucks.
Good luck with the bike, hope it's simple!
Tom
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Thank you for your encouraging words. I got an update today that the computer hasn’t shown any problem codes for the V7. It continues not to start and the dealer has informed me that the tank is removed and they are trying to hunt loose wires which will take some time. I will keep everyone posted. It seems I have offended the automotive Gods as my wife also picked up a flat tire to add insult to injury and necessitated a new set for the other car. So hopefully this will even out. At least the cars are paid for.
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That's your three strikes.
Plain sailing from here on in. :thumb: :grin: :grin:
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Well, at least there's no trouble with the plumbing at home, hopefully. Hang in there Beowulf, and thanks for the update.
Sarah
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Well, at least there's no trouble with the plumbing at home, hopefully.
Great now you just assured he's gonna have problems with his wedding tackle too. :shocked:
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That's on you, Mister! I was referring to the joys of a flushing toilet.....
Sarah
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That's on you, Mister! I was referring to the joys of a flushing toilet.....
Sarah
Appreciate the laughs. I must admit Im really curious what this turns out to be. More than anything I'd just like to know for peace of mind because prior to this the bike ran great.
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So I really love this bike but this is the second time it’s left me stranded. First it was the kickstand switch and I bypassed that and ran for quite some time. At 5600 miles it has decided to not start. It flashes a message “alarm ecu disc”. Any thoughts appreciated.
Sorry for your grief.........more than sucks........and nice Continental GT in the background of your repair fest pic.
Scott
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When my Stelvio did the eco disc code it turned out to be a dying battery. Replaced battery and it never happened again. Hope your solution is as easy
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Man if it’s that simple that would be the way of it. But on a new bike seems unlikely. Was it an older battery?
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Further update the tech says it is dropping voltage to the fuel pump and everything else. He has further disassembled the headlight and continued to trace wires. Everything is hooked up to the ecu. So should be interesting
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Does your town have bus service?
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So included here is a poorly marked up picture to protect the guilty….. we got the bike loaded without incident and lifted it into my friends pickup after work. We made it to the dealer without issue and they will start diagnosing tomorrow.
The second picture is me in process of replacing the turbo that went out. Thought maybe you like to see the adventure.
(https://i.ibb.co/FV38FFP/EA5-F6-DAA-27-B3-4898-9143-C53-E6-ED5-D2-D1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FV38FFP)
(https://i.ibb.co/xGRT4dj/6-FCC25-AB-6-E63-4-BF9-910-D-06-A2-C9160-E23.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xGRT4dj)
I see a reliable bike in the background of the first image, no doubt looking on with amusement:)
Ciao
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Man if it’s that simple that would be the way of it. But on a new bike seems unlikely. Was it an older battery?
It doesn't need to be with batteries these days. Here's hoping the tech jumpered a good battery into the system the first thing he did. It would be embarrassing if it was a dud battery.
Ciao
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Sound like a Chinese Fire Drill around that place.. :evil:
Yep, the old joke..
“Have you got an ignition system for a V7...” ?
“Sure have... a match”.
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Great now you just assured he's gonna have problems with his wedding tackle too. :shocked:
Nah..
Things are well in hand there.. :wink:
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Nah..
Things are well in hand there.. :wink:
Well, if no one else can fix it, he'll have to do it himself.
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I don't have a wiring diagram. Does this bike have a "bank angle" sensor (tipover sensor)? I chased these symptoms for a couple of days on Beaver's baby breva. Turned out that the sensor, located behind the battery, was sharing space with a mouse. I cleaned the nest out and re-leveled the sensor and the bike started.
Just a thought.
Honestly a good thought. I really don’t know. I’ve never dropped the bike ( knock on wood) so I obviously haven’t seen if it has one. I will keep it mind if they are stumped I think the dealer is tired of me calling for updates. This is my ride to work so I’m kinda of anxious about it but it is nice to have my wife’s royal Enfield handy. Really great bike. I’m just addicted to Guzzi. The jokes got me laughing. I hopefully have my turbo manifold bolts coming today for my 2007 Mini Cooper. My wife is currently driving the 2006 Mini as it has reliably been plugging along. Anyways lengthy post I will stop myself here.
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The jokes got me laughing.
:thumb:
Good, that's the intent.
It's "the way" we help, when we cannot otherwise seemingly be of any help.
:boozing:
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Well further update. Seems to be a sensor. The tech is Not into today but the counter person says the problem has been identified and the part will be ordered soon. He is just not sure what sensor the tech mentioned.
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Well, if no one else can fix it, he'll have to do it himself.
That reminds me, it’s laundry day.
But it’s only a small load, I’ll do it by hand.. :rolleyes:
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Well further update. Seems to be a sensor. The tech is Not into today but the counter person says the problem has been identified and the part will be ordered soon. He is just not sure what sensor the tech mentioned.
I hope you'll pester for the exact particulars, and whether or not the part is immediately available. Thanks for bringing us along.
Sarah
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Well further update. Seems to be a sensor. The tech is Not into today but the counter person says the problem has been identified and the part will be ordered soon. He is just not sure what sensor the tech mentioned.
Geeez, half the sensors are Incorporated into the throttle body ECU, wonder if that is what they are replacing?
Though it's super odd that, if it was actually identified, the part isn't ALREADY ordered. WTF would they be waiting for, a special planetary alignment before they actually press the button and order it?!?
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I hope that they are not doing a “ let’s try this sensor, and see if it fixes it...” method.
That can be an exercise in futility.
Well further update. Seems to be a sensor. The tech is Not into today but the counter person says the problem has been identified and the part will be ordered soon. He is just not sure what sensor the tech mentioned.
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I don't have a wiring diagram. Does this bike have a "bank angle" sensor (tipover sensor)?...
Good thought.
H-D Sportsters incorporated BAS with ECU, 2007 up, but it is separate on my 2022 Triumph.
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I’m trying to be patient but must admit I’m pretty aggravated with the dealer’s lack of communication. They tell me they will call update and never call. I usually call the day after they are supposed to call. I do not wish to specifically hate on anybody but I’m not happy. I wish I had the time to get it Austin but it was between that and leaving it in a public parking lot for too long. Getting it towed was like pulling teeth this time of year. If the sensor fixes it great if it doesn’t I’m headed to Austin.
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So final update it turned out to be a bad fuel sensor that’s been ordered from piaggio. It’s coming from Italy according to the tech so at least two weeks out. But at least I know now.
It’s been pulling teeth to get a call back.
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Can you get us the part number for this sensor?
I will attempt that but the service department was barely able to tell me a fuel sensor was the problem. They just said they don’t know. I will look up a parts catalogue and try and find it.
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How can they don't know when they just ordered it?
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So there’s a disconnect between the counter guy and the tech or lack of communication. Usually when I call the counter guy explains the tech isn’t in and he doesn’t know.
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What dealer in what city?
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What dealer in what city?
[/quote. I’m not happy with my experience with this dealer as when I call asking questions they seem put out. They haven’t called back any time they told me they would. Is it ok to post who they are. In one hand I appreciate that found the problem but I think the customer service is lacking.
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You're either dealing with a completely incompetent dealer/staff or you are getting a very conscious run around.
A parts guy is gonna know the proper name and description for the part they've been asked to order by the tech.
What pray tell is a "fuel sensor"?
There's a fuel level sensor, but that would only effect the low fuel light circuit.
Someone might call the other sensors generally "fuel system sensors" or "EFI sensors" but that's almost a useless description cause it's a category not an actual single part.
No other sensors that affect EFI operation tend to have the word "fuel" in them.
There are things like crankshaft position or camshaft position sensors (I believe Guzzi only used the former).
There are things like throttle position sensor, intake air temperature, air pressure, cylinder head or engine temperature sensor.
Like I said earlier MOST of these sensors on the smallblock are integrated into the throttle body/ECU and aren't separately replaceable.
Anyway, you're either talking to a moron or they are treating you like one.
Sorry to be indelicate.
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I’m trying to be patient but must admit I’m pretty aggravated with the dealer’s lack of communication. They tell me they will call update and never call. I usually call the day after they are supposed to call. I do not wish to specifically hate on anybody but I’m not happy. I wish I had the time to get it Austin but it was between that and leaving it in a public parking lot for too long. Getting it towed was like pulling teeth this time of year. If the sensor fixes it great if it doesn’t I’m headed to Austin.
This is far from an isolated experience. I almost 100% expect a store or service shop to not call back by the specified time they mentioned anymore. I admit I’m an idealist, but when I say I’m going to do something for someone by a certain time, I really push to do that, and I expect likewise. Sure, work gets in the way for everyone from time to time, but I think it’s a cultural issue in today’s society to see it happen so much. Add to that the fact that there aren’t enough dealerships to compete with the bad ones to push them to be better.
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Dirk: Too many of the greatest generation are gone. They once set the tone for civility in relationships with one another.
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Dirk: Too many of the greatest generation are gone. They once set the tone for civility in relationships with one another.
I mean, my uncle who fought in Korea was a big racist, so there are stinkers and sweethearts in every group ;)
I do think this fast-paced world and some of the spoils that come along with it get to us, regardless of the demographics we fit in.
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ON the other hand........IF they do actually have a part on order from Italy (you could probably check with Piaggio to see if this dealer has ordered parts....unless they ordered it from AF1, which some dealers do), maybe it won't take so long after all. I just received a skid plate from Greece (for my V Strom).....2 days shipping, and also a pair of shocks from UK for my V7III, 2 days shipping. Going thru Piaggio will likely slow it down but keep your hopes up..........maybe they will actually cure the issue. And yes, I am an optomist.
Scott
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You're either dealing with a completely incompetent dealer/staff or you are getting a very conscious run around.
A parts guy is gonna know the proper name and description for the part they've been asked to order by the tech.
What pray tell is a "fuel sensor"?
There's a fuel level sensor, but that would only effect the low fuel light circuit.
Someone might call the other sensors generally "fuel system sensors" or "EFI sensors" but that's almost a useless description cause it's a category not an actual single part.
No other sensors that affect EFI operation tend to have the word "fuel" in them.
There are things like crankshaft position or camshaft position sensors (I believe Guzzi only used the former).
There are things like throttle position sensor, intake air temperature, air pressure, cylinder head or engine temperature sensor.
Like I said earlier MOST of these sensors on the smallblock are integrated into the throttle body/ECU and aren't separately replaceable.
Anyway, you're either talking to a moron or they are treating you like one.
Sorry to be indelicate.
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Not indelicate at all. I feel I have gotten the run around as the service desk never picks up my calls or returns my messages. I explained I had a thread going and people were curious as to what part and what is going on. But to talk to them I call the sales department and they transfer me over to service at which point they tell me the tech isn’t there. I hope they are just treating me as a moron and know how to fix this .
The unit being one unit makes sense but I don’t know much about the electronic side.
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What is the reason you don’t identify the dealer you’re working with?
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Not indelicate at all. I feel I have gotten the run around as the service desk never picks up my calls or returns my messages. I explained I had a thread going and people were curious as to what part and what is going on. But to talk to them I call the sales department and they transfer me over to service at which point they tell me the tech isn’t there. I hope they are just treating me as a moron and know how to fix this .
The unit being one unit makes sense but I don’t know much about the electronic side.
Fingers crossed....
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What is the reason you don’t identify the dealer you’re working with?
well I read the rules said no dealer bashing or something to that effect. I’m also not sure it’s wise while they have my bike. Just suffice to say don’t buy a Moto Guzzi in Houston
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Not indelicate at all. I feel I have gotten the run around as the service desk never picks up my calls or returns my messages. I explained I had a thread going and people were curious as to what part and what is going on. But to talk to them I call the sales department and they transfer me over to service at which point they tell me the tech isn’t there. I hope they are just treating me as a moron and know how to fix this .
The unit being one unit makes sense but I don’t know much about the electronic side.
If anyone is interested in the MIU G3 looks like and does (ECU, throttle body, etc.), there is some good info here:
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.guzzitek.org/documents/injection/ECU_MIU-G3_Training.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiV1_XNsuf0AhU3GTQIHYUuCf4QFnoECAIQAg&usg=AOvVaw1JMaG9Br6_xlDrZPm5Knwu
Cheers,
Shaun
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If anyone is interested in the MIU G3 looks like and does (ECU, throttle body, etc.), there is some good info here:
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.guzzitek.org/documents/injection/ECU_MIU-G3_Training.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiV1_XNsuf0AhU3GTQIHYUuCf4QFnoECAIQAg&usg=AOvVaw1JMaG9Br6_xlDrZPm5Knwu
Cheers,
Shaun
Thanks for posting that, very interesting and at the same time disappointing. I don't like this integration of components. It's brilliant until a single component fails or wears then it's an expensive nightmare. Add it to the pressed up plain pin crank with 1 piece rods. They ain't doing it for the customer that's riding it in 10 years plus time.
Ciao
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Given your patience and your calm chronicling of your dealer's lethargy, I don't think it would be dealer bashing to out him. There was a time when we had a fair number of small but very committed Guzzi dealers. One by one, they mostly fell by the wayside.
Just my two cents' worth.
Ralph
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Pressed together cranks aren't a big issue. They have been used forever. Look at all the Harleys on the road. They really only have a problem when someone bumps them way beyond what they were designed to do.
kk
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well thank you for posting that manual regarding the electronics. My favorite part :"
As a result, the functionality of these devices can only be
tested with the diagnostic software. The unit is contained in a sealed casing. In the event of
malfunction of any of the internal devices, the entire unit must
be replaced."
I know this was mentioned a few times. Does not seem like a bad system but I dont like the integrated unit. If this craps out after warranty I might be tempted to do something crazy like carbs. Hopefully wont come to that and I dont know if thats feasible.
Just to be clear the dealer I took this to is not MPH and I would like to state I have not had any dealings with MPH but I what I heard is positive and that I know they are always busy. Im glad I bought the bike from AF1 but Im hoping this sorts this out and I dont see this Houston dealer lasting long.
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well thank you for posting that manual regarding the electronics. My favorite part :"
As a result, the functionality of these devices can only be
tested with the diagnostic software. The unit is contained in a sealed casing. In the event of
malfunction of any of the internal devices, the entire unit must
be replaced."
I know this was mentioned a few times. Does not seem like a bad system but I dont like the integrated unit. If this craps out after warranty I might be tempted to do something crazy like carbs. Hopefully wont come to that and I dont know if thats feasible.
Just to be clear the dealer I took this to is not MPH and I would like to state I have not had any dealings with MPH but I what I heard is positive and that I know they are always busy. Im glad I bought the bike from AF1 but Im hoping this sorts this out and I dont see this Houston dealer lasting long.
A lot of people have that reaction to technology, which is funny, because cars for instance are so much more heavily reliant on it these days with a dozen separate computer modules all networked and tons of components that are integrated and only replaceable as a unit. And guess what? Most last for hundreds of thousands of miles and decades without failure. Sure some will happen, that's life.
If you drop your phone (and don't have insurance) or tablet or laptop you could be out as much as the unit in question.
Ride more, worry less. ... at least once they fix it. Which they or someone will.
On the diagnostics, I'm assuming GuzziDiag (free shareware) could also tap into it for error codes and some live data collection to see what's wrong.
But scan tools aren't everything and a tech needs to also think through a problem. A significant number of "electrical" malfunctions are actually mechanical in nature - a physically damaged component that isn't acting properly but the scan tool doesn't just name it, it names the system that is affected.
As for retrofitting carbs, that sorta idea will get support from the luddites who are scared of or don't understand the aforementioned technology but it's a bad idea on so many levels. Not the least of which for someone who is a daily rider, as when straightened out the EFI bike will start and run easier and require less attention its entire life.
Poop happens to everything once in a while. Once this is sorted you'll be good to go.
PS MPH is/was once very loved here. They are good people who Piaggio screwed to give another dealer a franchise. I'm not even sure if the guy you're talking to is the same one for whom Piaggio screwed them, might be, or he might have already failed and this is another. But for future reference, MPH is definitely a good resource. Of course, I have no idea if they have any official relationship with Piaggio NA anymore so I don't know if they could do warranty work per se, still it's good to be aware of them if you're in their area.
Good luck!
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:boozing:Good point on the carbs. This bike is my daily transportation so I get the point of fuel injection. So anyways I miss it terribly. thanks to all
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A lot of people have that reaction to technology, which is funny, because cars for instance are so much more heavily reliant on it these days with a dozen separate computer modules all networked and tons of components that are integrated and only replaceable as a unit. And guess what? Most last for hundreds of thousands of miles and decades without failure. Sure some will happen, that's life.
If you drop your phone (and don't have insurance) or tablet or laptop you could be out as much as the unit in question.
Ride more, worry less. ... at least once they fix it. Which they or someone will.
On the diagnostics, I'm assuming GuzziDiag (free shareware) could also tap into it for error codes and some live data collection to see what's wrong.
But scan tools aren't everything and a tech needs to also think through a problem. A significant number of "electrical" malfunctions are actually mechanical in nature - a physically damaged component that isn't acting properly but the scan tool doesn't just name it, it names the system that is affected.
As for retrofitting carbs, that sorta idea will get support from the luddites who are scared of or don't understand the aforementioned technology but it's a bad idea on so many levels. Not the least of which for someone who is a daily rider, as when straightened out the EFI bike will start and run easier and require less attention its entire life.
Poop happens to everything once in a while. Once this is sorted you'll be good to go.
PS MPH is/was once very loved here. They are good people who Piaggio screwed to give another dealer a franchise. I'm not even sure if the guy you're talking to is the same one for whom Piaggio screwed them, might be, or he might have already failed and this is another. But for future reference, MPH is definitely a good resource. Of course, I have no idea if they have any official relationship with Piaggio NA anymore so I don't know if they could do warranty work per se, still it's good to be aware of them if you're in their area.
Good luck!
"That's life" it's an easy throw away statement until it's your own machine that's affected. It's a bit like "no worries it's got a warranty" Has anyone ever utilised the wonderful and amazingly easy and hassle free pathway most warranty claim end to end processes are for anything of a remotely technical nature is these days? I love fuel injection, wouldn't want to go back to carbs for any money but integrating the ecu and sensors into one unit is beneficially done for the manufacturer not the future owners. Cheaper, easier assembly, easier packaging and less wiring. It's not done for the good of the owner. Combine this with incompetent dealership mechanics and short warranty periods for motorcycles compared to the car world and there's room for concern.
My V11 sport which has only done 42,000klm has had the ecu replaced (recently by me) for a failed baro sensor which is not that uncommon and has happened enough for there to be "home ecu repair" information on it for those with the abilities to carry out ecu disassembly and micro soldering. The previous 16M ecu had the baro sensor separate and easily replaceable. On the same bike I've re bushed and replaced the seals on the throttle body shafts ( a task I've done on 2 other Guzzi throttle bodies now) and they are good for about 50,000klms before shaft bushing wear starts affecting the low speed running and idle.
It's not an objection to technology for many it's an objection to integrating technology in a manner that's a risk for the owner in the medium to long term future. I know many people that stick to older vehicles because of this very concern and they aren't fools and luddites with regards to engineering skills believe me. What they are is smart enough to read the "tea leaves" with regards to future potential grief when "that's life" happens.
I love advancements in technology, bring it on I say but be aware who's the ultimate beneficiary, the owner or the manufacturer. Not really an issue for those that turn their vehicles over every 3-5 years but for those without access to a convenient technically competent dealer or are the "keeper type" it's worth considering the "modularisation" of the componentry.
Ciao
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"That's life" it's an easy throw away statement until it's your own machine that's affected. It's a bit like "no worries it's got a warranty" Has anyone ever utilised the wonderful and amazingly easy and hassle free pathway most warranty claim end to end processes are for anything of a remotely technical nature is these days? I love fuel injection, wouldn't want to go back to carbs for any money but integrating the ecu and sensors into one unit is beneficially done for the manufacturer not the future owners. Cheaper, easier assembly, easier packaging and less wiring. It's not done for the good of the owner. Combine this with incompetent dealership mechanics and short warranty periods for motorcycles compared to the car world and there's room for concern.
My V11 sport which has only done 42,000klm has had the ecu replaced (recently by me) for a failed baro sensor which is not that uncommon and has happened enough for there to be "home ecu repair" information on it for those with the abilities to carry out ecu disassembly and micro soldering. The previous 16M ecu had the baro sensor separate and easily replaceable. On the same bike I've re bushed and replaced the seals on the throttle body shafts ( a task I've done on 2 other Guzzi throttle bodies now) and they are good for about 50,000klms before shaft bushing wear starts affecting the low speed running and idle.
It's not an objection to technology for many it's an objection to integrating technology in a manner that's a risk for the owner in the medium to long term future. I know many people that stick to older vehicles because of this very concern and they aren't fools and luddites with regards to engineering skills believe me. What they are is smart enough to read the "tea leaves" with regards to future potential grief when "that's life" happens.
I love advancements in technology, bring it on I say but be aware who's the ultimate beneficiary, the owner or the manufacturer. Not really an issue for those that turn their vehicles over every 3-5 years but for those without access to a convenient technically competent dealer or are the "keeper type" it's worth considering the "modularisation" of the componentry.
Ciao
Nahhhh, it's fear and ludditeism.
Anecdotes are fine. All things will break eventually. If it's important enough people will find a solution (as your anecdotes address).
Sometimes the solution costs more than a set of points and some jets.
It's rarely insurmountable and often not all that horrible.
Yes integration was a cost saving measure this model. I never claimed it wasn't.
Then again you could buy what 5-10 of these whole bikes new for the cost of many new cars or trucks. Think about that for a sec.
I'm just putting it into perspective.
Again it'll be fine for a very long time when it is fixed.
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Maybe just do pm? I don’t know about others but I don’t have the patience to wallow through that much jargon.
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I hope that the OP keeps us apprised of developments.
The V7 850, (I know, sounds like a strange name for an 850) is a sweet engine, and makes good power.
Considering all of the recent Guzzi offerings, this is the one that I find as a viable motorcycle to own.
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I'd suspect a poor connection somewhere more than I'd suspect a bad component. As mentioned, most electrical components last much longer than the bikes. A poor fitting, loose connection or corroded connector is more likely. Sometimes just disconnecting, cleaning and reconnecting wire harness connections will get rid of the 'fault'. A faulty wire crimp or a broken wire in an otherwise good looking connector is difficult to find.
PS - run, don't walk away from this dealer asap. They seem to do a poor job of hiding their incompetence.
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So much for simple. Dang.
Sarah
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So much for simple. Dang.
Sarah
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Yes not as simple as I hoped. I’m going to wait this one out and call the dealer in the prescribed time they gave for the shipping for the part. If I pull the bike from them I expect they will require payment for searching for the problem. If they don’t fix it in a reasonable time that may force my hand but I’m hoping for the best. I really just want the bike back so I can buy an exhaust and ride. I will keep you all updated when I find out more.
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If you don't get help soon from said dealer I would craft a firm but polite note to Piaggio and ask them to intervene.
Scott
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Isn’t your bike still under the manufacturers warranty? If so, I would think that the “ diagnosis” would be covered by Piaggio. Don’t be surprised if they try to blame you, for by passing the kick stand switch.
Just my opinion, but they should provide you with a loaner.
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...
If I pull the bike from them I expect they will require payment for searching for the problem.
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Isn’t your bike still under the manufacturers warranty? If so, I would think that the “ diagnosis” would be covered by Piaggio. Don’t be surprised if they try to blame you, for by passing the kick stand switch.
Just my opinion, but they should provide you with a loaner.
they already tried but when I explained it ran problem free after that and that’s what af1 instructed me to do to test that switch and they dropped the subject. I sent the switch to af1 they confirmed it was bad sent me a new one under warranty and I was waiting till next service to reattach it. Full disclosure I got rid of the canister it ran great for the last 4000 miles without it. What I believe helps my case with that is the bike isn’t throwing codes that the computer is reading. I sincerely believe it is just a loose connection but where I don’t know.
The loaner would be nice but was not offered and in my experience I’ve only seen bmw do that. Not saying it isn’t possible and honestly I didn’t ask. I did explain this my main vehicle and not a garage queen. I put only 40000 on my V7 ii so not a ton but as you can tell I didn’t spare it. I think the more I deal with them they are not exactly honest but I would hope as well the diagnosis will be covered.
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Anyone had a dimmer switch “issue” ? The centanario & stone use a different one than the special’s . My Centanario’s got a bit wonky (good technical term eh) . It has no clear detents between “DRL” low or high beam kind of vague is an understatement. The dealer has received an incorrect one twice so far . Allegedly the mother ship has updated the part # but it’s not available yet !
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well thank you for posting that manual regarding the electronics. My favorite part :"
As a result, the functionality of these devices can only be
tested with the diagnostic software. The unit is contained in a sealed casing. In the event of
malfunction of any of the internal devices, the entire unit must
be replaced."
I know this was mentioned a few times. Does not seem like a bad system but I dont like the integrated unit. If this craps out after warranty I might be tempted to do something crazy like carbs. Hopefully wont come to that and I dont know if thats feasible.
Just to be clear the dealer I took this to is not MPH and I would like to state I have not had any dealings with MPH but I what I heard is positive and that I know they are always busy. Im glad I bought the bike from AF1 but Im hoping this sorts this out and I dont see this Houston dealer lasting long.
That of course is another issue. Getting warranty service at a dealer you didn't buy the product from is a cause for heartburn for many shops. I've had friends tell me that a shop told them to bring it back to the selling dealer because they didn't have time to deal with it. I've had shops blow me off when it wasn't some straight forward parts change.
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If it was a loose connection on a monitored circuit (most EFI inputs and outputs) the ECU should set a trouble code saying that circuit is open, shorted, or out of range
But I'm sure there are exceptions.
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If it was a loose connection on a monitored circuit (most EFI inputs and outputs) the ECU should set a trouble code saying that circuit is open, shorted, or out of range
But I'm sure there are exceptions.
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I get what your saying. It did say alarm ecu disconnect on the speedometer itself. So that’s what leads to think that. But it maybe unrelated. Mostly it’s brainstorming at this point until I find if they fixed it or not.
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That of course is another issue. Getting warranty service at a dealer you didn't buy the product from is a cause for heartburn for many shops. I've had friends tell me that a shop told them to bring it back to the selling dealer because they didn't have time to deal with it. I've had shops blow me off when it wasn't some straight forward parts change.
Yep, and that's because warranty work is a money loser for a dealership. The hours the manufacturers allow are always under par and sometimes the rate.The car world is the same. So the poor old dealer makes very little in real terms on the sale and gets screwed for warranty work as well. Add to that if they get the troubleshooting wrong and order the incorrect part then they wear that cost as well. Can't really blame them for turning it away. It's generally the dealer thats in it for more than the profit that will help you out. The car world is the same and I have many stories from both with regards to the warranty systems. I laugh when people think their worlds is protected from drama because they have, drum roll, a WARRANTY, lol. It's better than nothing but most cases not by much.
Ciao
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Beowulf,
Any update on your situation?
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I get what your saying. It did say alarm ecu disconnect on the speedometer itself. So that’s what leads to think that. But it maybe unrelated. Mostly it’s brainstorming at this point until I find if they fixed it or not.
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Absolutely nothing so far. The dealer said to check back in two weeks. I haven’t called to see if they ordered the parts. Will update when I have more info.
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:angry:
In a dragged out case like this, the tech should be willing to speak to the customer and provide the specifics. In my opinion.
Sarah
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I agree. IMO, the dealer situation is the main thing that Piaggio should try to rectify.
:angry:
In a dragged out case like this, the tech should be willing to speak to the customer and provide the specifics. In my opinion.
Sarah
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Really hope that you get this sorted out and all turns out well soon.
My wife just got her little Mercedes GLA back from the dealer after they had it for 2 months.
She was having issues with the 4matic system and warning lights and problems with the Auto stop start.
She's in Virginia and I'm stationed in South Carolina so I couldn't come up to fix it. The car is almost out of warranty so she brought it to the dealer.
I told her I thought it was the secondary battery which is buried in the dash and runs all of those subsystems. The dealer said it was fine and replaced the main battery saying it would fix the problems. It didn't. Then the trained monkeys changed the controller board out for the 4matic system. That didn't fix it either so they ordered a completely new ECU for the car. They called her said it was all good and of course on the drive home all the problems came right back, in the car wouldn't drive.
Had a towed back to the dealer and what do you know.. they changed out the subsystem battery in the dash and all is now well. They wanted to charge her $600 for the battery. I had to call an intervene and they were willing to come the battery due to all the trouble and problems they cost her.
I was pretty sure this was the problem because during the early months of - when everyone was locked down and teleworking, the car at all similar problems. Did some research and found about the second battery and I assumed it was just low so I hook the car up to trickle charger for a couple days and the problem didn't return.
It said that there are so few true mechanics out there these days who can diagnose a problem. They want to plug it into the diagnostic machine and get a quick easy answer.
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Off track here, but "secondary battery????" WTF? I knew cars were getting ever more complex but really? A second battery buried under the dash somewhere? We're getting into jet-aircraft levels of complexity at this point. And I actually liked the little Mercedes GLA. Oh well, scratch that one off the list.
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Thanks for the kind thoughts recommendations and personal messages with advice and phone numbers of who to contact. I told the tech what happened and honestly I’m being reaffirmed in my desire to avoid tech’s.
I’m wishing I just traced the problem myself. I find this board more helpful than most of the Motorcycle techs. In the meantime I’ve been practically rebuilding this 2007 Mini Cooper s one thing has lead to another and I finished the turbo and timing chain, crankshaft seal, new belt, new catalytic converter, new exhaust seal, and am now going to replace the clutch and flywheel. It’s running good it just decided to give up the clutch after a second opinion it needs a new one. So here we go. Should be entertaining.
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Off track here, but "secondary battery????" WTF? I knew cars were getting ever more complex but really? A second battery buried under the dash somewhere? We're getting into jet-aircraft levels of complexity at this point. And I actually liked the little Mercedes GLA. Oh well, scratch that one off the list.
Yep, was a surprise to me too. Is easy to get to though, right behind the glovebox, and lasted 6+ years.
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Great now you just assured he's gonna have problems with his wedding tackle too. :shocked:
Was it the “downstairs plumbing..” ?
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Thanks for the kind thoughts recommendations and personal messages with advice and phone numbers of who to contact. I told the tech what happened and honestly I’m being reaffirmed in my desire to avoid tech’s.
I’m wishing I just traced the problem myself. I find this board more helpful than most of the Motorcycle techs. In the meantime I’ve been practically rebuilding this 2007 Mini Cooper s one thing has lead to another and I finished the turbo and timing chain, crankshaft seal, new belt, new catalytic converter, new exhaust seal, and am now going to replace the clutch and flywheel. It’s running good it just decided to give up the clutch after a second opinion it needs a new one. So here we go. Should be entertaining.
Did you replace VANOS solenoids?
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Did you replace VANOS solenoids?
Yes I replaced the solenoids and camshaft sensor as well.
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Was it the “downstairs plumbing..” ?
Duh
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I just read this thread tonight for the first time. The sidestand switch bit raised a big RED flag for me.
Has that wiring been check/tested? That the first place I would look. And I would install the replacement switch.
Dan
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So further update. Evidently the first tech working on the bike got --(hope gets better soon) and now I have a different tech who provided the part number to the fuel relay and honestly has been incredibly helpful. Hopefully it’s an accurate assessment. Part # L5A 12V30A-2021 for those interested part is ordered so anyways hope this may help if accurate. Cautiously optimistic. I know the ecu is supposed to house a lot of this stuff as discussed previously.
Thoughts?
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They should have that...you would think. common relay#8224462 (ex AP8212469) I keep one as a spare.
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Nov. 30-Dec. 30. Hope to goodness things are on track now. Thanks for the update.
Sarah
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A few months ago I bought a new V7III from a small Guzzi dealer in my town that has been established and respected for quite a while. It's staffed by four or five sharp guys and two friendly dogs.
I chose this bike in large part because of the reputation and location of the dealer.
The new Guzzi replaced a 2020 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 which had a mysterious, intermittent engine stall-out problem that plagued it over 7300 miles despite a long barrage from the parts cannon. The only dealer within 100 miles is one of those huge 15 brand mega-stores and frankly they couldn't care less about anything but overpriced routine "service" jobs that I can do at home in an hour and a half.
The factory three year warranty sounds great but there's no infrastructure to address ANYTHING but basic mechanical issues. A weird "ghost in the machine" is clearly out of their league. I finally gave up on the bike. I rolled it to the corner of my shop and finally, months later, sold it at a low price.
The previous respondent who stated that a great sounding warranty is not necessarily worth a darn has clearly been in the Kafkaesque realm that a modern machine can present when a solution is not simple.
Some may say that swapping an Enfield for a Moto Guzzi is a pot, meet kettle endeavor but in my case I feel the selling dealers' service and parts department will actually give a hoot.
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Well I got the call finally from the tech. Bike is fixed and no charge to me and evidently running great. I go to pick it up Monday so I will find Out. :boozing:
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Well I got the call finally from the tech. Bike is fixed and no charge to me and evidently running great. I go to pick it up Monday so I will find Out. :boozing:
Great news!!
Shaun
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Great news!!
Shaun
Go out and enjoy.
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That is very good news. Please let us know exactly what the issue was, and if the “ relay” was the real problem.
Well I got the call finally from the tech. Bike is fixed and no charge to me and evidently running great. I go to pick it up Monday so I will find Out. :boozing:
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Yay!! And do let us know, please.
Sarah
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Confirmed with the tech that it’s indeed the fuel relay. The ecu has been tested and came out good. Tech told me I could pick it up today however I got here and evidently it needs the latest reflash from Guzzi? Not sure if it’s Gonna be done today after all. Evidently covered by warranty but they are not sure. I drove an hour to get here and now am waiting to see if this pans out.
Further update. I took the bike home after waiting an hour for the computer to arrive to reflash the bike. It never came and they scheduled me for tomorrow.
The neutral light isn’t working so I’m gonna see if I can’t figure out what’s up. The bike rode nicely home no issues other than the neutral light and the gear indicator stopped working. The gear indicator is working now but no neutral indicator. I confirmed the bike is indeed in neutral running and let out the clutch with no stalling.
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Can we assume that the neutral indicator light was operating fine before taking it in for the other service?
...
The neutral light isn’t working so I’m gonna see if I can’t figure out what’s up. The bike rode nicely home no issues other than the neutral light and the gear indicator stopped working. The gear indicator is working now but no neutral indicator. I confirmed the bike is indeed in neutral running and let out the clutch with no stalling.
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Yes the neutral light was working before it was brought in.
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Dang this has been tiresome, and I'm just an onlooker. Hang in there.
Sarah
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Dang this has been tiresome, and I'm just an onlooker. Hang in there.
Sarah
Thanks for the kind words and advice offered by all. The bike is running great and it was a joy to ride this morning to work. It’s been a rough month on a personal level as I had my grandmother die last Tuesday. I figure there’s gotta be good stuff headed my way. I’m using this as a way to vent and push through.
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Glad to hear of your problem resolution. I’m still waiting for the correct dimmer switch . The wrong one was sent twice. The bike is rideable (during daylight) , and it’s a bit brisk around here for the foreseeable future. I figure if I start a “dialogue “ w/piaggio I might have a resolution by spring .
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Not sure what bike you have, but is it still under factory warranty?
Glad to hear of your problem resolution. I’m still waiting for the correct dimmer switch . The wrong one was sent twice. The bike is rideable (during daylight) , and it’s a bit brisk around here for the foreseeable future. I figure if I start a “dialogue “ w/piaggio I might have a resolution by spring .
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Oh yes , a 2021 V7/850 Centanario . I’m absolutely head over heels loving it too . I’ve also got a V7II that took quit a bit of sorting out . The Beemers were getting a bit heavy & bulky as I age , plus every time I glanced the speedo it showed 80 or better ! I had an SP1000 years ago & thought it quite agricultural.
At this stage of the journey a more manageable choice was a small block . It also allowed me to keep the same dealer A huge + for me . Having worked @ dealerships for decades I’m familiar W/the game . Ya sometimes just got to get the right “ear” at the other end to sift the fly shit out of the pepper ! Now how do you say that in Italian .
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Ya sometimes just got to get the right “ear” at the other end to sift the fly shit out of the pepper ! Now how do you say that in Italian .
I'm not even sure how to say that in English, lol. That's a new expression for me.
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.... Ya sometimes just got to get the right “ear” at the other end to sift the fly shit out of the pepper ! Now how do you say that in Italian .
You could say that in Mongolian, and it would still come out pretty clear :thumb:
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Peppers never going to taste the same!
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Confirmed with the tech that it’s indeed the fuel relay. The ecu has been tested and came out good. Tech told me I could pick it up today however I got here and evidently it needs the latest reflash from Guzzi? Not sure if it’s Gonna be done today after all. Evidently covered by warranty but they are not sure. I drove an hour to get here and now am waiting to see if this pans out.
Wait so they kept your bike for a month or two for a relay they could have got from Napa for a few bucks? Or possibly pulled one out of a bike on the floor?
And they are new enough they didn't have the scan tool yet.
Ugh, just ugh.
Glad it's back and almost mended.
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Wait so they kept your bike for a month or two for a relay they could have got from Napa for a few bucks? Or possibly pulled one out of a bike on the floor?
And they are new enough they didn't have the scan tool yet.
Ugh, just ugh.
Glad it's back and almost mended.
I know you’re a tolerant and fair minded guy Kev.
But with the combination of your training and ability to see through BS, I would not want to cross you.
Your point is valid and well made.
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Wait so they kept your bike for a month or two for a relay they could have got from Napa for a few bucks? Or possibly pulled one out of a bike on the floor?
And they are new enough they didn't have the scan tool yet.
Ugh, just ugh.
So it turns out AF1 has had the relay in stock the whole time and this dealership never checked and ordered it from Italy. It’s been a long process and I’m not pleased. I’m gonna suck it up and take it To Austin next time.
Anyways I missed the bike terribly and this Is my main mode of transport. Been borrowing the wife’s Royal Enfield.
Glad it's back and almost mended.
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Further update. Neutral switch was determined to be faulty and it will be replaced under warranty of course. Part is ordered and they will call when it arrives. Bike is successfully reflashed and running great. The dealer offered a free oil change at a later date.
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Further update. Neutral switch was determined to be faulty and it will be replaced under warranty of course. Part is ordered and they will call when it arrives. Bike is successfully reflashed and running great. The dealer offered a free oil change at a later date.
:thumb:
Glad to hear.
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Beowulf,
I am glad to hear you are back on the bike and hope you've seen the last of the glitches. As far as the free oil change, I'd ask the dealership for the supplies but do the work myself. Bet you'd already decided that.
I am so, so sorry to hear about the loss of your grandmother. Thanks for sharing that with us, too. Wishing you the very best.
Sarah
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That is some good news. As Sarah said, hopefully you can now just enjoy riding the bike.
Further update. Neutral switch was determined to be faulty and it will be replaced under warranty of course. Part is ordered and they will call when it arrives. Bike is successfully reflashed and running great. The dealer offered a free oil change at a later date.
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Good news. In the mean time just count the gears like we all used to do. Neutral should be around here ish?
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Good news. In the mean time just count the gears like we all used to do. Neutral should be around here ish?
That made me laugh. Yeah I’m back to counting gears which honestly isn’t bad. I pay more attention to rpm’s than anything. Popping into neutral has become a more exciting affair although not too difficult. I’m just so happy riding this bike as opposed to my wife’s bike (which is a great bike) to work. I average 120 miles a day four or so times a week.
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Most of the Guzzi’s I’ve owned, have three or 4 neutrals. It’s the one after first gear that is important. :grin:
That made me laugh. Yeah I’m back to counting gears which honestly isn’t bad. I pay more attention to rpm’s than anything. Popping into neutral has become a more exciting affair although not too difficult. I’m just so happy riding this bike as opposed to my wife’s bike (which is a great bike) to work. I average 120 miles a day four or so times a week.
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Only felt right to post where it all started. AF1 reached out today ( stellar customer service) and informed me it is indeed the ECU that has been misbehaving and will be covered under warranty.
I’m honestly thrilled that AF1 got on the problem so fast and that it’s going to be fixed. Warranty is coming in handy and Piaggio has been really decent about the whole thing according to both dealers. I miss that motorcycle terribly. I’m afraid it’s quite a love affair.
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I hope that this dealer has diagnosed it properly, and you can get on to enjoying the machine.
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Just an FYI, my V85 experience was Piaggio has finally stepped up their game and appears to be doing a good job with warranty / customer service. Warning though, don't bring it in with aftermarket exhaust or maps.
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Just an FYI, my V85 experience was Piaggio has finally stepped up their game and appears to be doing a good job with warranty / customer service. Warning though, don't bring it in with aftermarket exhaust or maps.
All things considered, that’s probably fair enough.
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If anyone is interested in the MIU G3 looks like and does (ECU, throttle body, etc.), there is some good info here:
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.guzzitek.org/documents/injection/ECU_MIU-G3_Training.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiV1_XNsuf0AhU3GTQIHYUuCf4QFnoECAIQAg&usg=AOvVaw1JMaG9Br6_xlDrZPm5Knwu
Cheers,
Shaun
Thanks for posting that manual
I do note they still don't show the second coil in the starter solenoid, what is wrong with those guys?
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Only felt right to post where it all started. AF1 reached out today ( stellar customer service) and informed me it is indeed the ECU that has been misbehaving and will be covered under warranty.
I’m honestly thrilled that AF1 got on the problem so fast and that it’s going to be fixed. Warranty is coming in handy and Piaggio has been really decent about the whole thing according to both dealers. I miss that motorcycle terribly. I’m afraid it’s quite a love affair.
What did I miss? Last update was neutral switch replaced and bike running great. Did you bring to AF1 just to reaffirm repairs or did it crap out again? Thanks. Great thread, by the way.
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It crapped out bad. So Af1 meet me in Houston to pick the bike up and DaveDel helped me out big time trailering it to Houston. It started revving up for no reason and not acting right. Af1 is replacing the ecu as it’s determined to be faulty.