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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dxhall on January 06, 2022, 08:00:48 AM
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I’m swapping out the wheels on my ‘20 V85TT and doing the standard fluid changes. On an old Guzzi, this would also be the time to remove the swing arm and clean and lube the driveshaft splines. The shop manual for the V85, doesn’t make any reference to regular spline maintenance. Is it not necessary any more?
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It does mention lubing the spline, when you replace the rear tyre.
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DX, I do all of my own maintenance but as a first time Guzzi Owner (also a V85) the thought of checking or re-lubing the splines never even tickled my single brain cell. :violent1: I look forward to hearing what the feeling is amongst the Guzzi-rati.
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Pull the rear shock and lube the mounting bushings. Search it here.
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Nothing that comes out of Mandello is properly lubed.
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It does mention lubing the spline, when you replace the rear tyre.
Can you point out where it mentions this? I couldn’t find it, but I’ve never been known to be the most observant person.
That said, is the lubrication of the driveshaft splines done strictly to avoid friction heat and corrosion, or is there another mechanical advantage to the mating teeth being lubricated? I know there are some driveshafts that don’t require lubrication. Might this be the case with these types of gears?
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There will be some axial (fore and aft) movement of the drive shaft at the rear male to female contact point of the spline, during oscillation of the swingarm.
Probably very minimal, but it won’t be zero.
This will not occur at the gearbox, because of the retaining clip on that end which prevents this, but no such clip exists (obviously) on the bevelbox end. You can imagine the grief that a dry spline would feel, transmitting high torque loads while simultaneously sliding against the faces of the mating spline.
I’ve only done 22,000 on mine, but I pop the bevelbox off at the service (every 10,000 km) and give it a suitable touch up with a Molybdenum based grease.
I do the front end too for good measure, but I don’t see it as being quite so critical.
It really is a 15 minute task and you can check the seal for integrity while you’re staring at the guts.
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Well, bike is seriously apart and swingarm is off. It was a bit loose, and the splines on the far end of the driveshaft were not well greased. How does the driveshaft come off the input shaft? The manual suggests that it be whacked,
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The manual suggests that it be whacked,
Yes.
Hold the shaft more or less level where it sits in normal use. Get a medium hammer and while holding force on it as if you were trying to pull it out, a sharp tap with the hammer will dislodge it.
When you are replacing it, if you’ve greased it nicely it will snap back home much easier.
Try to tap on a portion of the universal joint that does not put the force of the hammer tap, through the needle rollers.
Suffice to say, try to tap it at the gearbox end.
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It’s all apart. I’m not impressed with the factory’s work. The hole for the drive-side swingarm bearing must have been a bit oversized. So, to hold the bearing tight in the hole, the assemblers peened the housing around the bearing. Here’s the bearing and housing, with machinists blue to show the peens:
(https://i.ibb.co/GsMnmpj/CFD04973-64-B8-47-FF-961-E-8-D97-FBDD7-CCF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GsMnmpj)
The edges of the peens are higher than the housing around them. Since the swingarm rotates on the surface with the peens, the high edges of the peens created a gap between the swingarm and the housing. This allowed water and dirt to get between the contact surfaces of the swingarm and housing and into the driveshaft tunnel. Here’s the rust on the driveshaft:
(https://i.ibb.co/NZRT806/885-F326-D-ECD5-4-F0-E-850-C-981-C5-E6-E7755.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NZRT806)
The splines on the output shaft and front driveshaft were dry and rusty. Here’s the front ujoint:
(https://i.ibb.co/8XS61xk/A059-E950-E2-F5-4-B93-B0-EB-3-AD2-D1-A8-BDA0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8XS61xk)
I’m pretty disgusted. I’m thinking I should fix the carbs on the Honda VFR750.
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It’s all apart. I’m not impressed with the factory’s work. The hole for the drive-side swingarm bearing must have been a bit oversized. So, to hold the bearing tight in the hole, the assemblers peened the housing around the bearing. Here’s the bearing and housing, with machinists blue to show the peens:
(https://i.ibb.co/GsMnmpj/CFD04973-64-B8-47-FF-961-E-8-D97-FBDD7-CCF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GsMnmpj)
The edges of the peens are higher than the housing around them. Since the swingarm rotates on the surface with the peens, the high edges of the peens created a gap between the swingarm and the housing. This allowed water and dirt to get between the contact surfaces of the swingarm and housing and into the driveshaft tunnel. Here’s the rust on the driveshaft:
(https://i.ibb.co/NZRT806/885-F326-D-ECD5-4-F0-E-850-C-981-C5-E6-E7755.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NZRT806)
The splines on the output shaft and front driveshaft were dry and rusty. Here’s the front ujoint:
(https://i.ibb.co/8XS61xk/A059-E950-E2-F5-4-B93-B0-EB-3-AD2-D1-A8-BDA0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8XS61xk)
I’m pretty disgusted. I’m thinking I should fix the carbs on the Honda VFR750.
Those aren't peening marks but the sort of mass production/poor handling marking you get sometimes in a factory environment. Components get machined then can be thrown into a big metal cage/basket for the next procedure before they get final finished etc. They could also be tooling marks from the bearing press when the bearing was installed and the arm wasn't aligned correctly. Peening a loose bearing isn't done in a radial fashion like those marks and assemblers simply don't have the tools on hand on an assembly line to do it. You just got unlucky with a knocked about one. I've experienced heaps of Ducati new spares with this sort of damage and always ask if they have another piece in stock so I can have a look to see if it's in better shape. I have long suspected that some Ducati major spare parts like heads and crankcases are of inferior quality to the components they use for assembling bikes on the production line and are often like the ones in your images. Dont even get me on the subject of porous castings.
Ciao
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If things get worse for you, I do have a contact at piaggio after my V85tt died on the 2nd day. Hope you can get it resolved.
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If someone was trying to stake that bearing into the housing, that isn't the way it would be done. For one they would be evenly spaced around the circumference and would be more of a line and not a rounded dimple. That looks like some kind of damage. MGs are basically hand built so this kind of thing does happen but it shouldn't have gone together like that.
kk
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Don’t know about the origin of the marks. When I’ve had to peen a bearing, I’ve not done it on only one side, either. These marks look like the marks made by the sort of blunt chisel that I’ve used for peening, though. The other marks are probably from the dirt which was trapped between the swingarm and the housing.
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Don’t know about the origin of the marks. When I’ve had to peen a bearing, I’ve not done it on only one side, either. These marks look like the marks made by the sort of blunt chisel that I’ve used for peening, though. The other marks are probably from the dirt which was trapped between the swingarm and the housing.
Staking a bearing is normally done with a pointed punch and equidistantly around the circumference as someone else mentioned. better for you it's not a "staked" situation though.
Ciao