Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mwether on January 11, 2022, 08:13:33 PM
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Hi, all:
LOONG-time lurker who's taken about four years to determine that a smaller Guzzi is just about the perfect bike for me. I'm jockey-esque in stature (5'7"/140) and live in a motorcycling mecca, with days and days worth of fantastic mountainous two-lane in every direction. In addition to day trips (and longer), there's a good chance the bike would often be used as a suburban commuter too.
Given this scenario, I see V-twin torque, 7/8 size, lighter curb weight, big tank, and shaft as tremendous advantages. I don't believe there is any other manufacturer making a bike with the same combination of attributes.
My next decision is whether to go with the newest post-2012 (metal tank) V7 I can afford or to look for something even sweeter IMHO (and often cheaper) like an 850-T3 or a V65SP? The first issue is that I have only seen V7s in the wild. I have no sense of how the older bikes relate to the modern bikes in terms of scale, dimensions, agility, etc. Is an 850-T considerably bigger? One reviewer—while loving the bike—called a V1000G5 "ponderous." (Not that I'm considering a liter bike. I had an '05 Multistrada which was great, but it's overkill for the current philosophy of use.)
The second issue is maximizing the ride:wrench ratio. It seems that for reliability, parts availability, etc., I should go with a newer bike, but I trust the collective WG expertise to straighten me out on that one! I'm happy to do routine maintenance, but I'd like to "hop on it and go" as much as is possible for an Italian bike. :wink:
Grateful to hear your thoughts and experiences.
Jeff
Arden NC
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To get a well sorted older motorcycle will cost as much or more than a newer used motorcycle.
The benefit of an older motorcycle is they were designed by humans and were easier to fix if something goes wrong. But the odds of problems is no greater than that of a modern motorcycle.
But then again I am gravitating to the V7 III as a good balance between old and new, thinking add gas and go.
This guy knows how to use a guzzi to it's full.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9S85OvcRCw
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You live awfully close to Mayor of BBQ, and he has a few Guzzis in his den. You should ask for his thoughts (if he doesn’t see this thread)
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My .02 as a relative MG newbie without any experience with newer Guzzis: Tonti big blocks are torquey and so cool. The G5 does look ponderous but doesn’t feel it underway. Any bike more than ten or fifteen years old will need care and maybe sorting. I love that part of it but if you just want to ride, a newer FI v7 or v85 may be just the ticket. Best of luck and post pictures. Ben
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I have a 2003 Breva 750, had it since new.
There is a very good reason why I still have it. :thumb: :grin:
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the 850T is a bigblock , and 50 kilo heavier than the other bikes you mention
might or might not be a issue. if you look for something lightweight, skip that one.
The 650 SP is a weird attempt to make a small touring bike, it does not work well as a package.
IMHO the engine lacks grunt to work as a tourer.
they are 35 years old now, not a problem if you find a well cared for example, but you take a risk, if it needs a rebuild it will be expensive.
i think you cant go wrong with a current 750 V7 model.
you can let your wallet decide what type of V7.
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To get a well sorted older motorcycle will cost as much or more than a newer used motorcycle.
Super helpful, thanks!
And those Nick Adams videos are amazing—also the sort of thing that makes me want an older bike!
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You live awfully close to Mayor of BBQ, and he has a few Guzzis in his den. You should ask for his thoughts (if he doesn’t see this thread)
Thanks! I also need to look up Earl Totman, who is another local Guzzi guru. Same guy, maybe?
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...if you just want to ride, a newer FI v7 or v85 may be just the ticket. Best of luck and post pictures. Ben
Thanks, and will do! :thumb:
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I have a 2003 Breva 750, had it since new.
There is a very good reason why I still have it. :thumb: :grin:
Thanks, Muzz. I have never heard a bad word about the little Breva.
I'm bummed that, try as I might, the styling does not speak to me. :sad:
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i think you cant go wrong with a current 750 V7 model.
you can let your wallet decide what type of V7.
Thanks, huub. A consensus is emerging!
I also really appreciate your insight on the other models I mentioned. :thumb:
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Thanks! I also need to look up Earl Totman, who is another local Guzzi guru. Same guy, maybe?
Not the same, but Mayor spoke to me of a local Guzzi guru. That might be the same gent.
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Not the same, but Mayor spoke to me of a local Guzzi guru. That might be the same gent.
Thanks, Dirk. I'll PM the Mayor.
BTW, your art is fantastic. Deadlifting Jesus made me chuckle; in my experience that dude's always been stronger than he looks! :wink:
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You're closer to the Mayor than to me. I'm in Boiling Springs near Spartanburg, not far from I-26/I-85 intersection. Earl is over in Black Mountain. You could go over to the Greenhouse Cafe in Mills River and conveniently peruse the older Guzzis that Jeff has on display for in-person context.
A Tonti framed bike is a nice bike. Approx 500lbs in general. A V1000 G5 is not as slender and concise as an 850 T, T3 or any of the sport models like my V7 Sport, but I personally think that an Ambassador or Eldorado is more ponderous if the word is going to be used. I prefer the older bikes, but that's me. Since you won't be getting parts cheap & in stock at the local Asheville Moto Guzzi dealership (...........) you just need to decide whether you would rather order parts from/via an actual new MG dealership somewhere else or from a trusted source like Harpers or MG Cycle for older models.
Honestly, if you're thinking about late model bikes, depth of resource and the best reputation going, you'll get the best bang for your buck & time investment to make a weekend trip to Cadre in Cincinnati- drive up Fri, see them on Sat and drive/ride home Sun. There isn't anywhere I know of that's closer or has the equivalent Guzzi world to offer.
Welcome to WG. If you're down this way, feel welcome to stop by and see my crunchy old stuff.
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Ditto on what someone above said about the 850T. Nice bikes but built on the larger, heavier platform. I have (and love) an older small block but the newer ones are overall much better motorcycles out-of-the-box. Nothing better than modern suspension and brakes.
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I started riding @ 16 , I’m now 70 . I’ve been through quite a few bikes in those years , and some 300k Mi. Lots of Moto camping too . Currently I’ve 2 small blocks a V7II (well sorted ) & a V7/850 . Very happy with both . Oh , I’m vertically challenged @ 5’5” & can flat foot both bikes . So , IMHO + 1 on small blocks .
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I think a V7II or V7III
If you want a vintage bike, go with a 850-T or T3 over any of the smallblocks.
The old smallblocks are cheap, but they arent all that common, and many of them need a fair bit of sorting out to make them sing (rear drive mods, new valves & springs, convert to electronic ignition, etc).
I have a v65, but honestly I would have been better off getting a V7 classic.
I sent you Earl's # in a PM. He has/had both a T-3 and a v65sp -- both sorted, good running, and for sale last time I saw him.
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I am very happy with my 2016 V7 II although after riding my buddy's new V85 adventure bike I was tempted. The temptation will pass and I plan on keeping the 16 V7 for a long time. My riding here in SE Ohio is similar to what you are wanting to do and my V7 just does it well. Maintenance on my bike is a snap. I can do fluid changes, valve check/adjust, and have it buttoned up in a little more than an hour and never remove the fuel tank. I also give an A+ to Cadre, but it helps that I'm less than two hours away from them.
(https://i.ibb.co/37wCYQj/11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/37wCYQj)
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FWIW...
I briefly owned a '13 V7 Stone. Never really "clicked" with it, biggest issue was seat comfort and vibration. I had three seats (low gel, cafe' and modified stock) and only the last was comfortable for more than two hours. Engine vibration might have gotten better as I put more miles on it (only had 2250 miles on it when I got it). Suspension was only okay. Handled great, brakes were adequate. More than enough power for me. Needed a bit of "sorting": factory fueling was horrible, a Beetle map took care of that; it was charging 15.2 volts, so I replaced the o.e. reg./rect. with an aftermarket Mosfet unit.
I now own an '82 V50 III that I got as part of a package deal. Yes, it needed a lot of sorting: wiring issues, someone had put huge car coils on it, oil leaks needed fixed, needed a better breather system to go with the pod filters, all of the usual needs from neglect and only being ridden 800 miles in 20 years.
It has stock fork dampers and Marzocchi Strada rear shocks - suspension works much better than the '13 Stone's ever did. The V50 is near 100 lbs lighter! Handles great, brakes (linked) are nearly as good as the Stone's. The engine is not as powerful of course, but since it's much lighter, it doesn't have to be. Same gas mileage (55 mpg average). Unfortunately, the seat isn't much more comfortable than the Stone's, but I'm working on a fix for that. Sidestand sucks, so I bought a Kawasaki Z750 stand that I will modify to work.
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Welcome to WG. If you're down this way, feel welcome to stop by and see my crunchy old stuff.
Thanks for this kind invitation and your other insights, AC. I've got a son at college in Spartanburg, so I hope to take you up on it! :thumb:
And the sculpture work you do/tradition you are part of is very cool. For me, it's another tick in the marque's column that there are two artists who ride Guzzis in this thread alone.
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... I have (and love) an older small block but the newer ones are overall much better motorcycles out-of-the-box. Nothing better than modern suspension and brakes.
Thanks for this, John! :thumb:
I might add FI too! :grin:
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I started riding @ 16 , I’m now 70 . I’ve been through quite a few bikes in those years , and some 300k Mi. Lots of Moto camping too . Currently I’ve 2 small blocks a V7II (well sorted ) & a V7/850 . Very happy with both . Oh , I’m vertically challenged @ 5’5” & can flat foot both bikes . So , IMHO + 1 on small blocks .
Thanks very much! This sort of insight means a lot coming from a guy with 54 years of motorcycling experience!
And "Munchkins unite!' :grin:
PS: I would love the new 850 motor, but they're too new for the used prices to be in my price range.
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I think a V7II or V7III
If you want a vintage bike, go with a 850-T or T3 over any of the smallblocks.
The old smallblocks are cheap, but they arent all that common, and many of them need a fair bit of sorting out to make them sing (rear drive mods, new valves & springs, convert to electronic ignition, etc).
I have a v65, but honestly I would have been better off getting a V7 classic.
I sent you Earl's # in a PM. He has/had both a T-3 and a v65sp -- both sorted, good running, and for sale last time I saw him.
Thanks, Chad. Super helpful. The "dodge old smallblocks for now" advice is exactly the kind of insight (informed by experience) that I was looking for.
Appreciate the PM too. I'll respond there as well.
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An 850 t5 would be ideal if you are not turned off by the look,no issue with chrome cylinder bores like the early ts.Mywife is smaller than you and had no problems with ours.
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I am very happy with my 2016 V7 II although after riding my buddy's new V85 adventure bike I was tempted. The temptation will pass and I plan on keeping the 16 V7 for a long time. My riding here in SE Ohio is similar to what you are wanting to do and my V7 just does it well. Maintenance on my bike is a snap. I can do fluid changes, valve check/adjust, and have it buttoned up in a little more than an hour and never remove the fuel tank. I also give an A+ to Cadre, but it helps that I'm less than two hours away from them.
(https://i.ibb.co/37wCYQj/11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/37wCYQj)
Great stuff, ND. Thank you.
Around here, my old Kawi Super Sherpa (never should have sold) would be the ideal adventure bike for me—and as big (250cc) as I would go.
I'm looking for a 90% hard roader, with a well-maintained forest road thrown in on occasion. The smaller size of the V7 is a huge selling point. Not sure on the configuration yet. I might consider the Stornello, or maybe just tires and the higher Arrow pipe? The Rough seems like even more of a styling exercise to me, not sure it has any more actual utility than the regular street models...?
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Hi, all:
.....My next decision is whether to go with the newest post-2012 (metal tank) V7 .....
Jeff
Arden NC
I have a 2012 V7 Classic-- with the metal tank. Pretty sure it came that way, so I suspect that the later units off the line got the metal tank. I'm enjoying having fuel injection and shaft drive from a maintenance perspective :grin:
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FWIW...
I briefly owned a '13 V7 Stone. Never really "clicked" with it, biggest issue was seat comfort and vibration.
SNIP
I now own an '82 V50 III that I got as part of a package deal.
SNIP
Charlie, it's worth a LOT; I really appreciate a response from someone with your expertise. Thank you.
The V50 is an intriguing bike to be sure. It sounds like this one (and the rest of the fleet) is sort of perpetually for sale:
http://www.retrotours.com/1979-Moto-Guzzi-V50-3713/
The vibration issue with your Stone gives me pause. If you have time to reply:
Where did you feel the vibes? Bars? Pegs? All over? :laugh:
Were they constantly intrusive or just at certain RPM?
How did they differ from other Guzzi vibes?
Gratefully,
Jeff
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I have a 2012 V7 Classic-- with the metal tank. Pretty sure it came that way, so I suspect that the later units off the line got the metal tank. I'm enjoying having fuel injection and shaft drive from a maintenance perspective :grin:
Thanks, Anomaly. This matches my understanding that 2012 was the first year for metal tanks on the V7s. Pretty sure that any model year between 2012 and present has a steel tank.
I had a plastic tank on my 2005 Multi DS1000S that Ducati replaced under warranty, but it was a PITA. I'm also pretty sure that the ethanol would have eventually warped the replacement (unless they changed the polymer used in the new part to something more resistant).
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Can't believe no one has pointed out the real answer ... you need both!!
If you only go with the older Guzzi it will need work, and it will be "out of service" for some time, and you may question your thinking.
But ... if you buy a really nice V7 III AND an older Guzzi ... then when your classic needs some work, no worries! You can take your time. Some part shows up wrong, gotta send it back, wait another week or so, no big deal as you have the V7 III to ride. Also, researching the issue and best resolution can be at a leisurely pace vs. feeling in a rush to get it on the road again.
So you can lovingly look at the older classic bike vs. getting pissed that it needs some more attention. :laugh:
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An 850 t5 would be ideal if you are not turned off by the look,no issue with chrome cylinder bores like the early ts.Mywife is smaller than you and had no problems with ours.
Thanks, Tkelly. I dig the 850s aesthetics for sure.
It's just that—unless I can find one pre-sorted and reasonably priced—I'll likely have to do a fair bit of futzing around first. Used V7s seem to be more common and in need of less work to be road worthy...?
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Can't believe no one has pointed out the real answer ... you need both!!
Finally! Some unassailable logic! :laugh:
The only wrinkle is that my wife is not convinced of the economic feasibility of one bike, let alone two. (We're about to have three in college, so she probably has a point.) My last ditch argument is that if three of our four cars go to college, I will need a vehicle, and a used bike will be cheaper (or the same) as a used car and a LOT more fun. Wish me luck with that line of reasoning!
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Charlie, it's worth a LOT; I really appreciate a response from someone with your expertise. Thank you.
The V50 is an intriguing bike to be sure. It sounds like this one (and the rest of the fleet) is sort of perpetually for sale:
http://www.retrotours.com/1979-Moto-Guzzi-V50-3713/
The vibration issue with your Stone gives me pause. If you have time to reply:
Where did you feel the vibes? Bars? Pegs? All over? :laugh:
Were they constantly intrusive or just at certain RPM?
How did they differ from other Guzzi vibes?
Gratefully,
Jeff
A V50 III is my pick of the V50s - the V50 and V50 II have smaller valves and carburetors, so are down on power compared to the III. They also have Bosch electronic ignition which can cause issues - the insulation falls off the pickup wiring causing running issues, and the advance "curve" is rather abrupt.
The V65SP is probably the best of the early small-blocks sold in the US.
The vibration that was hard to live with on my Stone was mostly through the bars. Seemed to be worst at a steady speed - around 55-60 mph, IIRC (it's been two years). Maybe if I had tried heavier bar end weights and other things that normally work, it might have been alleviated. Most likely it just needed a bunch more miles put on it before it finally "broke in".
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I had a very nice v65sp. Fun bike, but it did feel like a 30 year old bike when compared to any modern SB.
Based on your stated wants, I would try to find a nice modern SB, in my opinion, on practically every meaningful way, the new ones are better than the old
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V7III seems to fit the bill well. Air cooled engine still feels pretty retro, and new or close to new models can be had at a pretty good discount it seems.
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As a very happy owner of a V9 Bobber Sport I may be biased. ;) But I think you should have a look at the V9 Roamer & Bobber. Great fun and reliable bikes and being a Guzzi......the used one's are priced quite well. I got a Beetle map and Zard pipes and it runs and sounds great. It ran good before the remap but it did make a good improvement and still gets almost 50 MPG.
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As a very happy owner of a V9 Bobber Sport I may be biased. ;) But I think you should have a look at the V9 Roamer & Bobber. Great fun and reliable bikes and being a Guzzi......the used one's are priced quite well. I got a Beetle map and Zard pipes and it runs and sounds great. It ran good before the remap but it did make a good improvement and still gets almost 50 MPG.
Thanks, Caffeineo.
It bums me out (though it also simplifies my decision) that neither of those bikes speaks to me for a couple of reasons. One, I'm not a fan of the styling in either case. All factory bobbers pale in comparison to the Bonneville Bobber, IMO. And the Roamer has always looked like a Sportster to me, which would have been super cool when I was younger, but my tastes have changed. Second, they have significantly smaller tanks than the V7. Picky SOB, huh? :laugh:
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A V50 III is my pick of the V50s
SNIP
The V65SP is probably the best of the early small-blocks sold in the US.
Super helpful. So a well-fettled V50III or V65SP for oldsters, and a broken-in V7 for new gen!
I had a very nice v65sp. Fun bike, but it did feel like a 30 year old bike when compared to any modern SB.
Based on your stated wants, I would try to find a nice modern SB, in my opinion, on practically every meaningful way, the new ones are better than the old
Pretty cool when posts start to confirm one another! (bad Chad, I'm reading SB as "standard bike"...?)
V7III seems to fit the bill well. Air cooled engine still feels pretty retro, and new or close to new models can be had at a pretty good discount it seems.
Agreed!
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SB = small block.
People have mentioned T-series Guzzis. Never have I heard them referred to small blocks. As far as I know, all of the what we refer to as Tonti frame bikes, 850T, 850T3, G5, Convert, EV, etc. are big blocks. Loops too.
V50, V65, newer 750s like the Breva and Nevada, and the current V7 I, II, III are small blocks.
-AJ
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SB = small block.
Thanks, AJ. Sometimes my own density surprises me... :drool:
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Greer’s bike would be worth a look ?
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Mwether, I think you have your thought track right. If you want to go full old school, then you can't do better than a well sorted v50III, or V65. And, if your open to modern SB (small block) all seem to be a good choice.
I currently have a v9 Roamer, which I really like a whole lot, and I get the styling is not for everyone. If I were in your shoes, I would look very hard to find a nice V7III, not that the others aren't good, I just think you get more with the III. But really, any of the lot, from the Breva on are really good, fun bikes. And I say this as a dude who stands 6'6"!
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I live in Burnsville NC ( 45 miles from Asheville )and just bought a 84 V65 . Earl had this bike at one time I think . I like it. It has 13,000 miles and still has the double valve spring setup so I suppose it still has the crappy valves. I’ll change them at some point when I get some extra cash 🤪
(https://i.ibb.co/DCvLP97/22-A747-CA-C1-EB-4-CF8-A7-F9-C5-F8-AA1-D655-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DCvLP97)
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from the Breva on are really good, fun bikes. And I say this as a dude who stands 6'6"!
Man, are you that tall Chad! :shocked: i am 5' 7.25", and the Breva fits absolutely perfectly. 11" range and we both fit a smallblock. Actually, pretty impressive.
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V65 for sure!!! Small and cheap bike..... I have 5 SB and my favorite is the V65.
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I live in Burnsville NC ( 45 miles from Asheville )and just bought a 84 V65 . Earl had this bike at one time I think . I like it. It has 13,000 miles and still has the double valve spring setup so I suppose it still has the crappy valves. I’ll change them at some point when I get some extra cash 🤪
KT, I know Burnsville well. My wife's family has a cabin off of 261 on the shoulder of Roan, and we go through Burnsville to get there. You live in a pretty place!
That V65 is a great looking bike, even with the valve covers off!
This fellow in FL is selling an '84 for $2700. It's been on Bookface forever. The description doesn't sound ideal...
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/218180517143043/
Here's an earlier post (with a higher price) and more pictures.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/340992403749092/
I think it's funny that 48 weeks ago it was a "90% perfect creampuff" but now it's "87% happy all around." :grin:
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V65 for sure!!! Small and cheap bike..... I have 5 SB and my favorite is the V65.
Thank you, maurice! I appreciate your vote! I like the look of the V65, for sure! :thumb:
Do you have the SP or the unfaired version?
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Greer’s bike would be worth a look ?
Thanks, Huzo. Is this a dealer or a member?
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The engine vibes on my '17 V7 Stone often annoy me. Getting the rpm up helps, but I don't love micromanaging the gearing. I remapped with a Beetle map, which helped the throttle snatch and cruising surge, but it didn't help the vibes. Although I suspect the map wasn't meant to. I really do love the bike. For me, it's the shortest distance to a gas 'n go 'classic'. I may fiddle with it this summer, maybe slip ons, and another map will change the feel. I really want to keep it.
Thanks, CB. This is the second mention of vibes being an issue with V7s; something I need to watch for when I take a longer test ride.
I didn't note it on a long-ago test at Matthews Fun Machines, but that was just a short, round-the-block noodle on surface roads.
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Thanks, Huzo. Is this a dealer or a member?
A well regarded member.
Check out the thread
“Another deal ‘21 V7 850”
I just bumped it up to the top for you.
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Thanks, CB. This is the second mention of vibes being an issue with V7s; something I need to watch for when I take a longer test ride.
I guess it's a personal thing cause over the years you hear this sort of thing about every bike from Harley to JAPanInc. and some people will swear it's nothing and others will swear it's the whole world.
That said--- THE GUYS SAYING THAT ARE FRIGGING NUTS.
I have hated high frequency buzzing from L4s to even some higher strung boxer twins.
I have even hated INTRUSTIVE low-frequency vibrations from solidmount Harleys.
But I have never in my life, even for a few seconds, thought that any of my Guzzis (including both of my smallblocks) vibrated excessively. And shit, it's not like my Jackal or Breva 1100 was smoother than my smallblocks.
Funny the rpm range mentioned, because in top gear that might well be lugging. But the people mentioning it know enough not to do that (I believe).
So I guess it's a personal thing.
But it's so not a thing to me.
PS - if you make it up to NJ before deciding, take one of my smallbocks for a few hours and find out yourself. Of course, the weather isn't conducive and I bet you'll get offers closer to home before this is all over.
Have fun
PS - modern - that's it. Roper talked me out of buying a classic one years ago. And despite the fact that I'm more than capable of working on them, I have no desire to any more than I have to, so modern is the only answer for me. YMMV
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Thanks, CB. This is the second mention of vibes being an issue with V7s; something I need to watch for when I take a longer test ride.
If my V7 II vibrated any less, I don't think I'd love it as much as I do. If I wanted ultra smooth, I'd get a Japanese parallel twin. To me, a V-twin--cam shaft below, pushrods and all--means a less "refined" and more pure/raw experience. I want to be reminded every time I ride that I'm on a machine that's been hand-built.
The fact that the V85 TT felt so smooth when I test rode it was actually one of my turnoffs.
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A well regarded member.
Check out the thread
“Another deal ‘21 V7 850”
I just bumped it up to the top for you.
Saw this just before I hit send with my post, below.
I don't do FB so can't see all of that, but do not think that is Sarah's V7-OS (On Steroids), tho she has one. And, I am musing on selling my III to get one of those. With the accelerating cost of used vehicles these days, that does seem (a somewhat mysterious) deal.
Now, to my YMMV comments.
I’m a retired word merchant who can chew cud with the best of bovines, but even I think the discussion has pretty well digested — I should apologize for that, but admire it too much :laugh: — all major issues of old v. new. But, naturally, that won’t stop me from adding to the deluge.
Nearly all Guzzis from barn finds to those on showroom floors have charm. If one just won Powerball, well, cost is irrelevant, but most of us don’t play and none of us win, so that’s — like my Stornello (a V7 II, BTW) just now — is a nonstarter.
I am drawn to vintage, but more to Nipponese machines than Guzzis or other Euro ones. I say that until I see one of Charlie’s restorations or the like. It’s why I never take a trailer to swap meets and shows. My otherwise indulgent Perfect Pillion & Polish Princess would use a rusty butterknife to convert me into a castrato! :thewife: :shocked:
But even I know that, at my age and with my (pathetic) wrenching skillset, a vintage Guzzi would be unwise. Besides, I am a lousy tenor and doubt I’d sound better in falsetto. :wink:
OTOH, and more relevantly (I hope), my ’98 EV ( a California) is nearing vintage class. With 106K, it still romps with younger machines.
The only thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread (tho perhaps I missed it) is not an issue of riding or wrenching. With three headed to college soon, you are young enough for this to be less of a concern than it is for is more “seasoned” Guzzisti, i.e., just moving the beasts around in the garage, driveway, etc., while not mounted.
Anyone can ride a motorcycle down roads at warp speed, but a garage drop is about the only thing that comes easier with age! $igh.
Playing Rubik’s Cube in the Moto Grappa with my moto-harem can be daunting. The big blocks (EV, Griso, and Norge) are pigs, and the Stornello and V7 III delights, at one mph.
I did not see you mention if you do any two-up riding, but whatever our memories of 750’s being big bikes, my Kathi sure likes the Norge for that. I don't doubt that some here routinely ride two-up on vintage and modern small blocks, but that isn’t my reality. Kathi is a slip of a thing, so she is not The Problem. Furthermore Deponent Saith Not. :embarrassed:
While we live at the top of Virginia, and that’s a haul for you, we are closer than Cadre — whose praises I, too, sing — and you are always welcome if near to do a demo on my V7’s or anything else.
Moreover, if patient, we frequently visit one set of our (13!) grands in Wendell (vic. Raleigh), N.C. Guzzis are my hobby; Kathi’s hobby is grandkids. Not sure which is more expensive, but the latest CC bill for Christmas has me thinking she’s in the lead just now. Anyway, I ride down there in season.” And, in April we'll be housesitting for that bunch for a week. If inclined, come over with your gear and ride the III — which is likely what I’ll take on that trip as it is a Goldilocks machine for local and longish trips.
OK, that sure went quickly into TLDR mode. Sorry. Sort of. :azn:
Bill
P.S. One last -- I swear) comment:
If my V7 II vibrated any less, I don't think I'd love it as much as I do. If I wanted ultra smooth, I'd get a Japanese parallel twin. To me, a V-twin--cam shaft below, pushrods and all--means a less "refined" and more pure/raw experience. I want to be reminded every time I ride that I'm on a machine that's been hand-built.
The fact that the V85 TT felt so smooth when I test rode it was actually one of my turnoffs.
Exactly. I may be an insensitive to this -- as I am insensitive to so much else! -- but I have never felt much buzz in any Guzzi, with the (possible) exception of an 1100 Griso I rode as a loner once. As for vibration, nada beyond the visceral thrum of a V-twin, Mandello style. :bow:
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A well regarded member.
Check out the thread
“Another deal ‘21 V7 850”
I just bumped it up to the top for you.
Got it. Thanks!
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=113689.msg1798341#msg1798341
I love the looks of the Special, but I chase my tail on the "spokes/tubes" thing...
Plus that's a little spendy for me. I'm thinking maybe in Dave's ballpark...
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=110642.0
Or Rhodan's (at the $ limit but REALLY well farkled)
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=113691.0
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Next time you’re up toward the roan text me and drop by. Eight 2 8 two eight four 3 seven for 6
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Here is a 2013 V7 in Cincinnati for $3500. I don't know the seller. He says he got it from Cadre.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1346091622572208/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Af7165561-1eaa-40a5-b49e-8e60e32b3385 (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1346091622572208/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Af7165561-1eaa-40a5-b49e-8e60e32b3385)
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For the folks suggesting a v50 III or v65 ... a couple of years back I saw a really excellent condition v50 III that I could not afford. :laugh: Read about the bike, and started looking for an OK one. Not a pristine, perfect, expensive one ... but one that ran properly and had all the parts and no major issues. They rarely popped up. And when they did, they were either near perfect and very expensive or they needed a lot of work.
So then I starting thinking maybe I could get one of the ones in rougher shape ... like one that isn't running properly and the ignition had been switch from points to electronic 3-4 times and it still runs funny. Then it seemed spare parts were rare, new old stock parts rare, real knowledge of them rare. Then I thought if 1 or 2 guys more knowledgeable than me couldn't get it working, how the heck am I going to accomplish that?
And I've never seen a v65 in person or for sale.
So ... did I give up too easily? :laugh: Are they really out there? Are there "secret" parts stashes?
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I think you've misspelled, "I've not experienced that"? :grin:
:thumb:
Obvysly I aint gooder at spellin' hole thawts :boozing:
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When a "modern" 750 vibrates more than a 53 year old 750 (Ambassador) or 47 year old Convert, it vibrates too much (IMO).
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...that won’t stop me from adding to the deluge.
Glad you did, Bill. Very glad you did!
And thanks so much for the kind invitation to VA. I used to live in Arlington a few lifetimes ago!
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Next time you’re up toward the roan text me and drop by. Eight 2 8 two eight four 3 seven for 6
Will do for sure! Thanks much. :thumb:
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Here is a 2013 V7 in Cincinnati for $3500. I don't know the seller. He says he got it from Cadre.
Thanks, AMB!
I've got that one saved in FB. While I like the look of wire wheels better, I think I'm leaning towards cast for practical reasons. It seems you've got more tire options with the alloys, since you can run tubeless.
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Thanks, AMB!
I've got that one saved in FB. While I like the look of wire wheels better, I think I'm leaning towards cast for practical reasons. It seems you've got more tire options with the alloys, since you can run tubeless.
If you're willing to, it's not too much of a chore to seal spoked wheels to run tubeless. I did it on mine a couple years ago, and will be doing it again on this next set I bought for the sidecar.
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For the folks suggesting a v50 III or v65
SNIP
Then I thought if 1 or 2 guys more knowledgeable than me couldn't get it working, how the heck am I going to accomplish that?
SNIP
did I give up too easily? :laugh: Are they really out there? Are there "secret" parts stashes?
Your questions are my questions, UTBF. :grin:
When it comes to the vintage bikes, I'm starting to think of a continuum with continually shrinking quantities...
<larger numbers------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------smaller numbers>
(MGSBs imported to US in 80s) > (MGSBs currently extant 40yrs on) > (MGSBs extant in US that are a) immediately rideable and b) affordable)
Sort of a hen's teeth/unicorn deal, it seems. Hence the V7, which I believe is Guzzi's most popular bike ever. There are a lot (relatively) around, and they're still making them.
In fact, they are consistently improving them, which makes the earlier iterations slightly less desirable. Even in these wacky times, I think used Guzzis are a buyers market. Folks who know them love them; most others think they're weird. For most of my motorcycling career, I thought they were weird, and then I started to shift my perspective and understand that they are unique. An important distinction.
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When a "modern" 750 vibrates more than a 53 year old 750 (Ambassador) or 47 year old Convert, it vibrates too much (IMO).
....I gotta wonder how much is perception and how much is reality?
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I'm going on record that each person's hands, feet, bum, and other vibration sensitive bits are theirs alone! :laugh:
Consequently, there are a multitude of lived experiences when it comes to "detonation sensation."
Can't we all get along? :grin:
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Other than nostalgia, I don't see the point in buying a vintage small block and pumping money into it to get it well sorted equal the same price as a modern small block.
-AJ
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@Mwether, I decided to go 'new' V 7 III, same reason as many other here, still retro look,fun 'little' scoot, easy to handle and easy to look after.
Nice edition to our 'heavy ' 1400 Cali.
I had old in years pass and enjoyed them but it can take time and effort[ fun] to keep such going. Not to say that i'd like some older Guzzi [V7 or Nuovo Falcone] at some time back in the Shed.
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....I gotta wonder how much is perception and how much is reality?
:rolleyes:
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:rolleyes:
Oh I didn't realize you had data?
Rpm points, speeds, maybe frequency of pulses or amount of movement measured with a sensor at the bar end? At least that's how Harley engineers have measured it in the past.
Unless you're just talking about perception, which, jokes aside we've all admitted vary. Which is what raised the question. I'm perfectly willing to accept my feelings on the matter are perception and not facts.
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Here's my advice: everyone should buy newer (that way the prices of the oldies will go down and I can afford more of them). :evil:
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Here's my advice: everyone should buy newer (that way the prices of the oldies will go down and I can afford more of them). :evil:
+1
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A used V7 sounds just the ticket for you, as you say they often come up quite cheap.
I ride a V7III special with a 5-1/2 gallon metal tank, it has a range of 270 miles.
I would say buy any V7 in your area, only after riding it for a while will you figure out what one you really want.
The trouble with Guzzis they tend to multiply, before you know where you are there's 3 or 4 more finding their way into your heart.
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Thank you, maurice! I appreciate your vote! I like the look of the V65, for sure! :thumb:
Do you have the SP or the unfaired version?
Mine is an unfaired but with an Agostini complete fairing like this one but for V50 https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73986.0 (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73986.0).
Regards,
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Other than nostalgia, I don't see the point in buying a vintage small block and pumping money into it to get it well sorted equal the same price as a modern small block.
-AJ
Let me see if I can shed some light on this. "Satisfaction" is the word that mainly comes to mind. That is, the satisfaction I get in knowing that I resurrected a non-running "barn find" and made it a good running, reliable machine once again. It's a rolling display of my mechanical skills and determination to save an unloved machine from the scrap heap or being parted out. "Farkling" a newer one just doesn't give me the same feeling.
Also, vintage small-blocks are simple, basic machines (with the possible exception of the Bosch e.i.), easy and enjoyable to work on. They're considerably lighter and more nimble than newer small-blocks as well.
Then there's rarity - not everyone has one, vs. newer ones are fairly common. Nice to own and ride something a bit unique and unusual.
Subjectively: styling. I like the mini-Tonti looks of my V50 III better than the retro styling of the newer V7s.
Cost varies, but mine in still in the negative (less than zero) . It was part of a package deal, the rest of the stuff was sold off at a profit, and the V50 III didn't need much.
I realize that how I feel in this regard and what works for me isn't the same for others. Not everyone has the free time and/or desire to take on projects of this nature. "It's all good". :cheesy:
(https://i.ibb.co/wy9KVx2/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wy9KVx2)
(https://i.ibb.co/dJbZdDT/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dJbZdDT)
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Let me see if I can shed some light on this.
Thanks a bunch, Charlie; you are no help at all! :grin:
You've captured my dilemma precisely: I prefer the old bikes for all the reasons you've listed, i.e., aesthetics, simplicity, rarity, etc.
Also—as a fan of philosophies like Matt Crawford's in Shop Class as Soulcraft—I recognize and value (and try, with varying degrees of success, to practice) the balance of mental and physical tasks inherent in making things (go) by hand. I am officially "okay" at stuff like that, not great.
In the end, economics and marital accord take the front seat. I'm trying to figure how the least funds can deliver the most bang for the buck. All things considered, that SEEMS to be by buying a newer bike.
However, this does remind me of my first bike: a 1971 Suzuki T125 barn find that I bought in about 1985 for one dollar per cc. I was a junior in high school, and my mom only let me buy it because it wasn't running. She used to joke that I could ride it in the back of a pickup truck. Well, I got it running (on about 1.5 of its 2 cylinders) and had a great time on it. Perhaps lightning could strike twice, but I have a feeling many riding seasons could go by before I find a healthy V50 III...
Edited to add:
1. The RATE of expenditure is also an important consideration. While the total dollar amount to restore a vintage bike might be higher, there is a perceptual advantage to spreading that cost out over time. This makes less financial sense, but it can "feel" better. (Favors an older, cheaper bike.)
2. However, I do not have the experience to evaluate whether a $1500 MG smallblock is a good candidate for restoration/squaring away. I don't know enough about parts availability etc. to make that determination. (Favors a newer, more expensive bike.)
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Didn't the early small blocks have a oiling issue in the rear drive? I had a V65SP that I really enjoyed, but the couple I sold it to (30 years ago)had something go in the rear drive.
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Do you prefer to tinker or ride? I like both but much prefer to ride; so luckily I'm able to have several bikes. I wouldn't be able to stand only having 1 bike and it being torn apart not ridable. I'd say I'm 80% ride and 20% tinker....if you're in the same spectrum, get a newer bike for sure. These are fairly inexpensive to buy used.
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Didn't the early small blocks have a oiling issue in the rear drive? I had a V65SP that I really enjoyed, but the couple I sold it to (30 years ago)had something go in the rear drive.
There is an update, actually two.
1) Drill an oil passage so that fling off the ring gear finds it's way to the pinion bearings more effectively, flip a shim around to catch that oil and funnel it down the hole. My V50 III went 40k + without that modification though, the gears and bearings all still look like new.
2) The "lock tabs" under the ring gear bolts can fracture, the bolt(s) then loosens, lots of crunchy noises ensue and possibly a cracked housing. Remove the tabs (which do nothing anyway) and Loctite the bolts into place.
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hello,
The old SB (may be before NTX) are smaller and 25 kg lighter than V7. I prefer carb vs injection.....
regards
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Not everyone has the free time and/or desire and *ability* to take on projects of this nature. "It's all good". :cheesy:
FIFY, Charlie. :smiley:
There is an update, actually two.
1) Drill an oil passage so that fling off the ring gear finds it's way to the pinion bearings more effectively, flip a shim around to catch that oil and funnel it down the hole. My V50 III went 40k + without that modification though, the gears and bearings all still look like new.
2) The "lock tabs" under the ring gear bolts can fracture, the bolt(s) then loosens, lots of crunchy noises ensue and possibly a cracked housing. Remove the tabs (which do nothing anyway) and Loctite the bolts into place.
Mod number 2 is the most important, and *needs* to be done. While you are in there, though, you may as well do number 1. :azn: :boozing:
If you can do this, and you have gotten rid of that stupid Bosch ignition.. an old small block is a fine choice.
If you don't like or can't do this stuff, the choice is simple. Get a new one.
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hello,
The old SB (may be before NTX) are smaller and 25 kg lighter than V7. I prefer carb vs injection.....
Lighter I understand, but how else are they smaller? They’re using the same (slightly modified) small block frame.
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I don't remember your budget, but Cadre posted.a 2023 V7 850 Stone in red this morning on Facebook. $7000
-AJ
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There's a thread further down the page, on Heron headed smallblocks vs the newer hemi head ones. Take a look at the thread.
The modern hemi heads have better numbers on paper, but most people find the old Heron heads feel better, have a better real world ride.
Joe
P.S. Guzzi smallblocks were the last road vehicles in the world to use the Heron heads of WW2 fame. That's reason enough for me...
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I've seen a ton of 850 T3s come up for sale on FB Marketplace in central texas. They're in such good shape I kind of regret starting my restoration when I could have bought one already restored - and for less than what I've put in! Yay Italian motorcycles
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To get a well sorted older motorcycle will cost as much or more than a newer used motorcycle.
The benefit of an older motorcycle is they were designed by humans and were easier to fix if something goes wrong. But the odds of problems is no greater than that of a modern motorcycle.
But then again I am gravitating to the V7 III as a good balance between old and new, thinking add gas and go.
This guy knows how to use a guzzi to it's full.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9S85OvcRCw
An old Eldorado, 50 years and not looking back
You really can't go wrong with an old Guzzi
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(https://i.ibb.co/2N41bzp/IMG-1622-HEIC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2N41bzp)
Lightweight and fun, my stripped down V65SP.
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read through the whole thread before realizing it was a couple of years old.
This thread really is a great read for anyone curious about those that love the brand. Why some insist on the old bikes, and a reasonable argument for new. Mention of nearly every model from introduction of the V forward, save for the CARC models. Certainly sharing any of Nick's Eldo videos is just not fair. The thrum of that lump while the rivers and rocks roll past is simply intoxicating and will make anyone believe they can and should find their own old bike...
Does anyone know if the OP ever became an owner?
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read through the whole thread before realizing it was a couple of years old.
...
Does anyone know if the OP ever became an owner?
Hi, kidsmoke. Glad you found value in the thread; I sure did!
In short, I'm not YET a Guzzi owner, but I'm still very interested. I wound up buying another Italian (Piaggio Liberty scooter) in the meantime, which is just about the perfect daily urban commuter. It's also great for the the 35-45 mph two lanes that abound in this area. I do want something longer-legged as a stablemate and still am looking at Guzzis!
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The white V 50 Charlie posted :thumb:
Older is cooler just not too old (else you need to wrench yourself), find one that is running currently and hasn't been messed with much.