Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Canuck750 on January 26, 2022, 06:58:08 PM
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I want to machine up a pair of replacement rear axle nuts for my 1948 Airone, no idea of the strength of steel Guzzi would have used back then. Typical of the era Guzzi used fastener sizes that are not common today such as M11 X 1.25, M15 X 1.25 etc... so hard to find them.
My local steel supply shop suggested 1048 steel rod as the base material, not as hard as tool steel but harder than mild steel. My small knee mill should be able to cut the hex faces in round stock using a collet block, |I will hand tap the hole to match the axle thread size / pitch,
Any comments on using 1048 steel?
Thanks
Jim
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Have you searched Mc Master Carr? They will sale you any length of hex stock and carry a very large selection of nuts.
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Have you searched Mc Master Carr? They will sale you any length of hex stock and carry a very large selection of nuts.
I could not find M11x1.25 nuts on MC plus they will not ship to Canada. I will check if they sell metric sized hex rod.
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I will hand tap the hole to match the axle thread size / pitch,
Thanks
Jim
That's a big hole to be hand tapping. And concentricity and squareness are quite important to make sure the nut seats hard against the frame or a washer. Since the internal thread does not have a bottom but goes all the way through, I would prefer and recommend you use a lathe to cut the nut threads. You can square or face the nut stock once mounted. The work will be more gentle and create smoother threads.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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That's a big hole to be hand tapping. And concentricity and squareness are quite important to make sure the nut seats hard against the frame or a washer. Since the internal thread does not have a bottom but goes all the way through, I would prefer and recommend you use a lathe to cut the nut threads. You can square or face the nut stock once mounted. The work will be more gentle and create smoother threads.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
I was planning on setting the shaped hex in my 3 jaw Chuck and use a sprung tap centre in the tail stock to apply pressure to the hand tap set against the pre drilled hex. I don’t have the skill to internal thread cut the nuts on my lathe. I was hoping that using the lathe to true the tap would achieve an accurate tap?
Thanks
Jim
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I'm not doubting your abilities but are you sure you measured correctly? I searched for about 30 minutes and can't find an M11x1.25 nut listed for sale anywhere. With that in mind, I'm amazed you found a tap that size! You will probably have to make your own. While you're set up, I'd make 3-4 of them. I just saw a Harper's ad, give them a call. :grin:
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1 would look at some 4140.. Seems pretty versatile.. I had some shafts made up from my fiend and he uses a lot of it..
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You could go a different direction and machine an axle that has whatever threads you want- then buy or make the axle nut, whichever is easier.
There isn't a lot of stress on the axle nut...nor the axle for that matter. I would think O1 or A2 would be fine? But maybe I'm wrong- I've never made an axle.
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I found 1!
https://straight-eight.com/product-category/fasteners-fittings-metric/nuts-fasteners-fittings-metric/m11/ (https://straight-eight.com/product-category/fasteners-fittings-metric/nuts-fasteners-fittings-metric/m11/)
Also looks like ARP used to make them as a special order pack. Maybe if you contact them.
-AJ
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I found 1!
https://straight-eight.com/product-category/fasteners-fittings-metric/nuts-fasteners-fittings-metric/m11/ (https://straight-eight.com/product-category/fasteners-fittings-metric/nuts-fasteners-fittings-metric/m11/)
Also looks like ARP used to make them as a special order pack. Maybe if you contact them.
-AJ
I had found that site as well, only other source has been Retro in Italy from where I did get one M11x1.25, need one more! Also the M15. I did find the correct M11 and M15 taps plus matching dies. This is the challenge of working on these old Bacon Slicer Guzzi’s, some very odd fastener sizes! The rear axle nuts on my Airone are pretty beat up and I would like to have some nice new ones to clean up the shiny rear section.
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1 would look at some 4140.. Seems pretty versatile.. I had some shafts made up from my fiend and he uses a lot of it..
I wish I had a fiend…. :evil:
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What about using smaller nuts and rethreading them rather that getting a specific alloy of hex stock. McMaster Carr and others sell extra wide and thick nuts in various alloys. Get one in 10mm , bore and tap.
Pete
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What about using smaller nuts and rethreading them rather that getting a specific alloy of hex stock. McMaster Carr and others sell extra wide and thick nuts in various alloys. Get one in 10mm , bore and tap.
Pete
Yes that is a good option. I think I will still try my luck at making a couple of the axle nuts.
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I wish I had a fiend…. :evil:
Not just any friend, but brilliant on top of it.. It would blow you away the stuff he does..
Here is one of the tools he bought a while back. It's only a 8 ft brake but weighs 40,000 lbs. His lathe came out of the closed down Nuke plant in Oregon..
(https://i.ibb.co/rkJGFKR/IMG-0360-Medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rkJGFKR)
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Do you have the capability to thread at all? If so, you can set up the proper pitch, take out much of the stock and then run a tap through it on the lathe. Easy Peasey. Of course, being an airplane guy, I like 4130. Plenty strong and easy to machine.
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Do you have the capability to thread at all? If so, you can set up the proper pitch, take out much of the stock and then run a tap through it on the lathe. Easy Peasey. Of course, being an airplane guy, I like 4130. Plenty strong and easy to machine.
Thanks Chuck, I could give that a try on the M15 x 1.25 nut, I will have to grind a small inside tool. I was watching several YouTube videos last night, plenty of options but most use an indexing head to align the 60 degree angles, then I found one video where a guy clamps round stock direct to the mill table and cuts the first flat surface. Then he used a real big nut, like 3” size as an alignment tool to which the stock is rotated and the cut flat aligned to the 60 degree face of the nut, cut the next face and keep rotating the stock and align each cut to the big nut. I thought that very clever for stock to large to fit into a collet block.
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I will have to grind a small inside tool. I
Just a boring bar with the thread form ground on it.
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Thanks Chuck, I could give that a try on the M15 x 1.25 nut, I will have to grind a small inside tool.
How much hurry are you in? I have a boring bar with replaceable, indexable thread cutting tips. I could post that to you to use to make your nuts and then post back. Oops, sorry. Probably not practical to post to Canada. I think minimum hole ID is probably like 1/2" but your axle should be bigger than that.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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I made up a pair of M15 x 1.25 nuts using my lathe and small knee mill. I started with 1" (25.4mm) 1048 round stock. I could not find any tables for M15 nuts for tap drill size, the only referance was a general guide saying for metirc muts the tap drill is 1mm smaller than the tap, so in this case 14mm, I tried that but the tap was very tight so I bored out the hole to 14.15 and the tap went in nicely, slow going but a good cut with lots of tap cutting oil.
(https://i.postimg.cc/K8DTXDPq/70-F0-B8-DE-0146-4-F19-ACE3-BDE2-C25-D8-E86.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2DGK8hK)
I used the method I found on Youtube to index the round rod on the mill table using a large hex nut. The nut faces were rough cast so I surfaced all faces with a fly cutter, then clamped the dowel to the table, cut the first face, then rotated the dowel 60 degrees aligned with a face of the big nut.
I blew the cut depth on the mill and ended up with a 21mm nut face rather than the 22mm nut face I was intending! I have a lot to learn.
After deburring I blackened the nuts and then coated them with ACF-50,
(https://i.postimg.cc/1t2n0CSt/6878-F968-5-BB4-453-E-9-B3-F-859-B031626-D6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYk82VnK)
I am pretty happy with how this 1st attempt turned out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8kxML5kH/04-D8-F070-09-E7-4-D3-D-9-CC2-7-B292-BBE25-AE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0FWSJdB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqggRHhw/60-BD54-FD-5-D95-484-C-A247-226-E72574-D16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bsysY4x6)
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Nice work, Jim. Another paragraph to add to the old resume :thumb:
Paul B :boozing:
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Nice to have these winter projects in the Great White North :grin:
I spent a few years in Fairview and I certainly enjoyed being inside
during those winter days . Nice job , by the way ! Peter
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I spent a few years in Fairview and I certainly enjoyed being inside
during those winter days .
Were you teaching the motorcycle tech program? I had a tour of the motorcycle tech school about 6 years ago and was shown the warehouse full of motorcycles stacked on racking, WOW what a cool place.
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Not just any friend, but brilliant on top of it.. It would blow you away the stuff he does..
Here is one of the tools he bought a while back. It's only a 8 ft brake but weighs 40,000 lbs. His lathe came out of the closed down Nuke plant in Oregon..
(https://i.ibb.co/rkJGFKR/IMG-0360-Medium.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rkJGFKR)
You may want to read the quote again Brandy.....