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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: almar on March 16, 2022, 03:30:10 PM
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Would anyone here have any knowledge of de-restricting a V7 11 engine, here in France learner and newly qualified riders are limited to to power output. I have been offered such a bike for good price, but I would need to de-restrict it to suit my needs. Could this be done by remapping or is it a mechanical issue? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
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I'm not sure that you're going to really open up the V7 beyond changing out stock internal parts. The maps that exist MIGHT pump the performance by .... 1-3% at most? If I recall Pete Roper's words, 2-valve air-cooled heron heads just aren't going to put out too much hp. Mostly, the maps out there release some or all of the emissions restrictions for a smoother performance.
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
Now, if you want to modify the engine, Todd at GuzziTech, and I bet a European vendor or two, offer big bore kits as well as 4-valve conversions.
Todd's bore kit (minus the heads):
https://gtmotocycles.com/products/gt-big-bore-820-4v-pistons (https://gtmotocycles.com/products/gt-big-bore-820-4v-pistons)
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Many thanks for your reply, don't have any need for the engine to be faster, normal speed from the standard engine is fine for me, just need to be able to overtake agriculture vehicles with my wife pillion
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Perhaps a local dealership, if you have one, would know how the power was restricted for your country.
Of course I have no idea what the restrictions are in France, but the V7 line as not known for an overabundance of horsepower when stock.
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I don't think the engine is restricted, it's 35kw from the factory.
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Just to clarify the bike is restricted to 25 klw /80 klm per hour top speed,.
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It may be something as simple as a throttle stop that limits how far you can open the throttle. My $.02
Paul B :boozing:
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It's possible that the rev limiter has been lowered via the ecu mapping. If that is the case than it could be reset by installing a different map. Only a guess but would be easy to determine by seeing where the rpms top out and the limiter kicks in. Not sure what the exact rev limit is on a non restricted V7II is but, it must be right around 7,000 - 7500 rpm's
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Your only way legally is to take it to the nearest official Guzzi dealer I would think. Then they would likely have to change your carte grise.Not even sure if that's possible.get onto any of the French guzzi forums or face book pages ( Scuderia Guzzi, L'Amicale Guzzi , Forum guzzi etc...) lots of knowledge ther and someone else is certain to have done this in the past...Here it's 90 % Americain people so you'll get a lot of assumptions, nonsense and very few right answers.
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Your only way legally is to take it to the nearest official Guzzi dealer I would think. Then they would likely have to change your carte grise.Not even sure if that's possible.get onto any of the French guzzi forums or face book pages ( Scuderia Guzzi, L'Amicale Guzzi , Forum guzzi etc...) lots of knowledge ther and someone else is certain to have done this in the past...Here it's 90 % Americain people so you'll get a lot of assumptions, nonsense and very few right answers.
Ummmm....
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I would contact Mark at beetlemaps , it is probably all done thru the ECU , Mark can sort it .
Dusty
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The three main methods of restriction are:
Modified throttle stop at the throttle bodies.
Restricting washers in the exhaust headers.
Restricting map.
All three should be easy to reverse, the trick is to find out which one. I'm sure your local Guzzi dealer will be able to do it for you.
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Ummmm....
I don't think he meant that as an insult and he's not wrong.
Seems like a couple of answers completely missed the fact that France (and I think much of the EU if not all) has a tiered licensing system requiring some (newer) riders to operate bikes below a certain power output. As a result OEMs often offer bikes with mechanical or electrical limits that can be derestricted later if/when the owner license status changes or the bike changes hands to a new owner with a different status.
That's a very foreign concept to must of us in the US.
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Sounds like a smart system to keep new riders from learning the hard way on their 180hp sport bikes.
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That's a very foreign concept to must of us in the US.
oh, you mean brand new riders without a moto license and zero training shouldn't just roll out of the dealership on a lightly used 2yr old Liter bike and take off into traffic? :popcorn:
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oh, you mean brand new riders without a moto license and zero training shouldn't just roll out of the dealership on a lightly used 2yr old Liter bike and take off into traffic? :popcorn:
Yuppers - Merica' Freedom man - I can do what I WANT!!!
TO BE CLEAR I'M Not meaning that politically...more socially/culturally.
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Yuppers - Merica' Freedom man - I can do what I WANT!!!
TO BE CLEAR I'M Not meaning that politically...more socially/culturally.
I have had students show up to the beginner motorcycle class on their newly purchased liter bike which they learned to ride via YouTube videos. They are not at class to learn anything (because they already learned all they need) but rather to just "get the card".
Most of these bikes are also riding on bald tires and held together with many zip-ties.
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12 years of MSF so here goes. I had two morbidly obese females show up having just purchased matching H2 turbo Kawasaki bikes for the Tribe Ride. No experience riding, ever. They did not complete the course. I am all in for tiered licensing.
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Most of us old folk due to economics had no choice but to start small due to lack of disposable income and only moved up as income moved up which could take a few years. I learned on a Honda Trail 90 and a Honda 70, then a Honda 175 and a little time on a Honda 305 Dream. Between ages of 18-22 I had no bike or access to one. Then bought a GS400, next the T-3 and then the Norge. If I had started on anything more powerful than the GS I probably would have been killed.
GliderJohn
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I think we may have topic drifted a bit but that happens sometimes.
I started on dirt bikes as a kid.
Personally I think that’s the best riding lesson known to the cycling world.
You learn all the basics like, front and rear brake control, traction control, counter steering in a
Slide, ground surface conditions difference, slow riding balance and probably most important, proper riding gear.
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I started on dirt bikes as a kid.
Personally I think that’s the best riding lesson known to the cycling world.
You learn all the basics like, front and rear brake control, traction control, counter steering in a
Slide, ground surface conditions difference, slow riding balance and probably most important, proper riding gear.
Says it all. (as an aside, the sailing analogy to the above is to start/learn in a dinghy-- many folks seem to jump right in with a 40'+ "keelboat" and never really learn the basics that dinghy sailing imparts in a most organic way)
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If I remember the maker correctly I learned to sail in a Dyers Dhow, just a sailing dinghy. I have an older Cyclone now but no sail, burned in a fire. Miss sailing only have a couple of "stink pots".
kk
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I don't think he meant that as an insult and he's not wrong.
Seems like a couple of answers completely missed the fact that France (and I think much of the EU if not all) hasn't a tiered licensing system requiring some (newer) riders to operate bikes below a certain power output. As a result OEMs often offer bikes with mechanical or electrical limits that can be derestricted later if/when the owner license status changes or the bike changes hands to a new owner with a different status.
That's a very foreign concept to must of us in the US.
Exactly and thank you Kev. There is a tiered system here that is tied to the kilowatt rated output.
The licensing laws in France are totally unique to that country ,there is a large active French Guzzi community so someone there will know all about this and how to deal with it correctly.That's why I posted the links to some of the sites and forums.
But I could just shut up and laugh instead of being helpfull.
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Sounds like a smart system to keep new riders from learning the hard way on their 180hp sport bikes.
This is exactly what I'm getting at Lucian . You are assuming that there are no output /hp restrictions in France but
until recently in France there was and it sat at 100 hp.
Sounds absurd ,unfair and "french ' but that was the law and de restricting or importing grey imports over that limit for road use was extremely severely sanctioned. https://moto-securite.fr/fin-limitation/
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Ummmm....
Errrr
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FF. Are there similar restrictions on auto's in France?, just curios
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Errrr
Ahhhhhhh
:boozing:
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I've known Europe uses a tiered system about as long as I've been riding, but I didn't realize that they actually restricted bikes. I thought you just bought a moto in that tier, and when you're able and want to move on the next tier, you buy a bike in that category. If you wanted a V7, I figured you just had to 'level up'. Appreciate the lesson.
I'm also very happy that we proved French Frog correct. It was fun watching this thread go off on tangents-- like playing the phone game at a senior center:
The green horse stepped on a duck, what?
I remember hunting ducks when I was young. Ol' Miller used to let us go hunting on his property. And pheasant.
Pheasants used to be everywhere. Don't see them anymore.
Yeeeah, that Ol' Miller had a mean dog...
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I've known Europe uses a tiered system about as long as I've been riding, but I didn't realize that they actually restricted bikes. I thought you just bought a moto in that tier, and when you're able and want to move on the next tier, you buy a bike in that category. If you wanted a V7, I figured you just had to 'level up'. Appreciate the lesson.
I'm also very happy that we proved French Frog correct. It was fun watching this thread go off on tangents-- like playing the phone game at a senior center:
The green horse stepped on a duck, what?
I remember hunting ducks when I was young. Ol' Miller used to let us go hunting on his property. And pheasant.
Pheasants used to be everywhere. Don't see them anymore.
Yeeeah, that Ol' Miller had a mean dog...
Yep, stuff happens around the campfire at times when a bunch of senior citizens are involved. Especially when they are the kind that ride Moto Guzzi’s 🤔😂👍
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I've known Europe uses a tiered system about as long as I've been riding, but I didn't realize that they actually restricted bikes. I thought you just bought a moto in that tier, and when you're able and want to move on the next tier, you buy a bike in that category. If you wanted a V7, I figured you just had to 'level up'. Appreciate the lesson.
I'm also very happy that we proved French Frog correct. It was fun watching this thread go off on tangents-- like playing the phone game at a senior center:
The green horse stepped on a duck, what?
I remember hunting ducks when I was young. Ol' Miller used to let us go hunting on his property. And pheasant.
Pheasants used to be everywhere. Don't see them anymore.
Yeeeah, that Ol' Miller had a mean dog...
:thumb: :boozing:
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FF. Are there similar restrictions on auto's in France?, just curios
No...it started for motorcycles in the 80's and I'm pretty sure that it was to do with road safety...at the time there was a great main road network that was very well maintained but the motorways were not that extensive and boring to ride to boot. I spent many thousand miles riding them at much higher than legal speeds because radars and speed traps were pretty rare too.I think the death toll for motorcycle riders was pretty high. Cars were not perceived as a problem.What I find odd is that there is still no road worthiness testing which has pissed off the EU bureaucrats.
Of course having special french models also played very much in favor of the official importers too as grey imports were impossible to register for road use. Several Friends got caught out like that and ended up with bikes that were only good for track days.
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I've known Europe uses a tiered system about as long as I've been riding, but I didn't realize that they actually restricted bikes. I thought you just bought a moto in that tier, and when you're able and want to move on the next tier, you buy a bike in that category. If you wanted a V7, I figured you just had to 'level up'. Appreciate the lesson.
I'm also very happy that we proved French Frog correct. It was fun watching this thread go off on tangents-- like playing the phone game at a senior center:
The green horse stepped on a duck, what?
I remember hunting ducks when I was young. Ol' Miller used to let us go hunting on his property. And pheasant.
Pheasants used to be everywhere. Don't see them anymore.
Yeeeah, that Ol' Miller had a mean dog...
Well as my handle shows I'm living in France and am half French...So when it comes to matters pertaining the country I live in then it would be logical to assume I know what I'm talking about. I also try not to just write any old comment that could be wrong or misleading and like to check my facts, especially when there could be a legal angle.That's why I posted the link to the official licensing web site.I might come across as being Mr Know all or Mr Tight ass but I'm really not that kind of person...when someone is in the shit I like to be able to assist if I can and not stand by the wayside and make cheap jokes.
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I remember that dog. He ran out and bit my cousin when we rode by on our bicycles. He was a mean one alright… :grin:
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Well as my handle shows I'm living in France and am half French...So when it comes to matters pertaining the country I live in then it would be logical to assume I know what I'm talking about. I also try not to just write any old comment that could be wrong or misleading and like to check my facts, especially when there could be a legal angle.That's why I posted the link to the official licensing web site.I might come across as being Mr Know all or Mr Tight ass but I'm really not that kind of person...when someone is in the shit I like to be able to assist if I can and not stand by the wayside and make cheap jokes.
No need to defend yourself, ami--you were the right person to answer the OP's query, and I'm sure one of us would've eventually directed them to another forum or site.
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:boozing:
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This did come up on here before, not sure how to find it
But
That bloke had somehow got an A2 nobbled v7 in US, I think
He Guzzidiaged his map number and someone else identified the number as A2
Pretty sure he then installed another map (world spec or Beetle) and got it running properly
Having access to free software to unnobble it beats dealing with the system imho
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If you want to follow the letter of the law ,the registration documents for the bike would also have to be changed once the bike is de restricted Martin.You probably have come across French policemen : they will often go the full 9 yards and check every single bit of paper once you are pulled.If there are discrepancies then the big hammer comes out. It's one big PITA but if your unlucky then it becomes very expensive. Years ago someone I knew got caught like this...the bike was suspected to have been illegally tweed, got impounded and then put on a dyno to proving that it had.Massive fine and the bike was crushed over a few HP over the legal limit.Not a common occurrence but it does happen...and the insurance is de facto void anyway so have a crash that involves someone else and you get screwed there too.
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Hey FrenchFrog
I'm a long time French resident, (since lycée) do you know if the 100bhp law is still in effect?
at least my Griso 'only' puts out 91bhp
last time I was pulled over by the cops on my bike in France, the copper went on for so long about how much he loved bikes and Iron Maiden(!) I started actually wishing the bloke would just give me the fine instead!
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:grin:
No it's been repealed since 2016 I think .Not sure where one would stand if one de restricted a French bike from prior to that date but likely to be OK. I avoid as much attention from the Gendarmes as possible and spent good money on some Mistral mufflers because they just pass under the noise barrier.That's one of the latest fads here ...noise pollution but as you surely know most of it is done by the scooters and tiddlers .
Whereabouts are you living ?