Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: vintagehoarder on July 31, 2022, 11:09:41 AM
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Picked up this BEAUTIFUL, low mileage, one owner 83 SP1000, she was well cared for! Only have about put 30 miles on her so far and lI ove it, pulls like a frieght train!
My questions is when you fullyextend the kick stand, there doesn't seem to be a detent to keep it there, in addition it has two very strong springs. It will work if I extend it all the way by foot, lay the bikle over on it, then roll back just a bit, and the weight of the bike will hold it. As soon as you set the bike upright or roll forwrad, this thing spring and retracts immediately. So I will default to the center stand. The problem is my old arhritis ass, need to have the bike on the side stand to get off of it, and get my leg over the bags, so this kick stand make me very nervous. If someone would bump the bike enough that kick stand could just come up, and I don't want to think about what it would do to that beautiful faring.
So thought I would ask the brain trust here that have had experience with the SP's, if there was any tips or fixes found by them?
Thanks for listening!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Our-Current-Collection/i-DqXkzfZ/0/03bd2ae3/M/1983%20Moto%20Guzzi%20SP1000-M.jpg) (https://curtedwards.smugmug.com/Our-Current-Collection/i-DqXkzfZ/A)
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The plate the Side Stand pivots on has holes for the spring hooks, these holes are behind the pivot point. Drill new holes in front of the pivot point, the stand will not self retract, you must manually pull the stand up with your foot.
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Nothing wrong with your side stand except the ergonomics. Arthritis, age related discomfort in deploying the side stand gives you 2 or possibly 3 options. 1) Mid mount stand ala LM4 etc. ( Still springs back as yours , but easier to reach / deploy ( esp with shorter inseams )
2) Brown side stand , as liked by other forum folks (but not all) , mounts in same area as mid mount no springing back, about 350USD from Boxerworks), and 3) Long Police type as in your California ll, which does addresses the spring back issue, Hopefully one of the options will work for you. Very nice SP. Congrats
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This was widely discussed in a recent thread:
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=115834.0
For a mid-mount stand on a budget, MG Cycle offers (currently out of stock) this bracket. One reuses their stand "leg" and springs. Note that there are two spring anchor positions - one for self-retracting and the other the stand stays down until the rider puts it up.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5093
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Anyone try one of the MG Cycle mid-mount stands on a LM1 with a center stand and Lafranconi silencers? I understand the need to move one before the other thing... just wondering how it works/looks when it's retracted up against the exhaust.
I'm getting more confident dis-mounting with the front mounted stand but it's a ticking time bomb. Mine wants to stay extended until I start the bike, which is handy sometimes, then the vibration releases it like bear trap.
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For a mid-mount stand on a budget, MG Cycle offers (currently out of stock) this bracket. One reuses their stand "leg" and springs. Note that there are two spring anchor positions - one for self-retracting and the other the stand stays down until the rider puts it up.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5093
[/quote]
Glad to see the current version of the bracket allows 2 choices of springs placement. The earlier ones did not.
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Was this a problem when these bikes were new? What a pain!
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It was a quick fix to get around safety concerns from people driving off with the stands down and making left hand turns .
At the time probably safer than using an Italian electrical switch to kill the ignition :evil: Peter
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(https://i.ibb.co/xq6vWQZ/20220731-130915.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xq6vWQZ)
This is what I did to mine to make it more accessible from the saddle, pretty simple , just like me if you were to ask my wife :sad:
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Sort of a pain to source and install, but the G5/Convert left lower rail with looong locking stand is a dream.
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On closer examination of your spring set=up, relocating the holes may not work.
Thanks for the ideas and insight!
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This was widely discussed in a recent thread:
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=115834.0
For a mid-mount stand on a budget, MG Cycle offers (currently out of stock) this bracket. One reuses their stand "leg" and springs. Note that there are two spring anchor positions - one for self-retracting and the other the stand stays down until the rider puts it up.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5093
Awesome thanks I knew you folks would be able steer me in the right direction.
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It was a quick fix to get around safety concerns from people driving off with the stands down and making left hand turns .
At the time probably safer than using an Italian electrical switch to kill the ignition :evil: Peter
👍 Makes sense
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Sort of a pain to source and install, but the G5/Convert left lower rail with looong locking stand is a dream.
That's what I was used to on my Cal II
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A very popular side stand among the BMW air head crowd is the Brown's stand. I just sold my SPNT (see swap meet) to SPscottNT today. My bike has the Frame rail / sidestand from a Cal. Very effective yet quite ugly. Scott told me of a BMW dealer he worked part time for and that they developed an adaptor plate for the Brown's stand to mount to Tonti frames. You could PM him for details.
Steve M
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A very popular side stand among the BMW air head crowd is the Brown's stand. I just sold my SPNT (see swap meet) to SPscottNT today. My bike has the Frame rail / sidestand from a Cal. Very effective yet quite ugly. Scott told me of a BMW dealer he worked part time for and that they developed an adaptor plate for the Brown's stand to mount to Tonti frames. You could PM him for details.
Steve M
Thanks
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(https://i.ibb.co/7JCy5c5/BROWN-STAND.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7JCy5c5)
I got this brown side stand from Boxerworks. It's the shiz. :thumb:
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I bought a red and white SP new in '83 after seeing one on the cover of Rider Magazine. I bought an aftermarket side stand quickly after purchasing the bike. Don't remember who made it. Not to be the harbinger of negative news, but some Guzzis of that vintage had soft clutch hubs. The clutch on mine started getting jerky and grabby at around 24K miles. Did a general overhaul at 30K miles and replaced the hub.
Kept the bike for nineteen years and 70K miles. Enjoy your new bike!
Larry
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I bought a red and white SP new in '83 after seeing one on the cover of Rider Magazine. I bought an aftermarket side stand quickly after purchasing the bike. Don't remember who made it. Not to be the harbinger of negative news, but some Guzzis of that vintage had soft clutch hubs. The clutch on mine started getting jerky and grabby at around 24K miles. Did a general overhaul at 30K miles and replaced the hub.
Kept the bike for nineteen years and 70K miles. Enjoy your new bike!
Larry
Thanks I will!
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I have the "budget" middle-mounted side stand arrangement that MG Cycle sells (above). My complaint about it is that the bike is positioned almost vertically, side-to-side, when it is on the stand. I had mine fall over when I'd just filled the tank at a gas pump on a slightly sloping surface. Most distressing. This same side stand arrangement on the bikes that came with it also positioned them too close to vertical, from what I've read. So I'd recommend looking into the Brown option instead.
Moto
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An afterthought, maybe of some interest:
A self-retracting forward side stand was fitted to the 850 T that Motociclismo tested in March, 1974. The reviewers had no complaints, just saying "the side stand is equipped with a spring which ensures that it closes as soon as you set off, thus avoiding dangerous oversights."
But the 850-T3 that the same magazine tested in July, 1975, had a side stand that didn't retract automatically. The reviewers this time said, "To retract the side stand while in the saddle it is necessary to have a tentacular leg, given the very forward position of the stand itself. Automatic return would be preferable."
Very soon, the self-retracting stand came back: I believe all the production T3's had the old arrangement.
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I have the "budget" middle-mounted side stand arrangement that MG Cycle sells (above). My complaint about it is that the bike is positioned almost vertically, side-to-side, when it is on the stand. I had mine fall over when I'd just filled the tank at a gas pump on a slightly sloping surface. Most distressing. This same side stand arrangement on the bikes that came with it also positioned them too close to vertical, from what I've read. So I'd recommend looking into the Brown option instead.
Moto
Variables such as tire size, fork dampers and springs and rear shock length play into this. One bike I installed the mid-mount stand on was at a perfect angle and another leaned over so far and I was worried that it would "low side" itself. I recently had a Le Mans 1000 in that had stock tire sizes and stock suspension - it fell into the "leans over too far" category.
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The side stand situation on the SP gets even more ridiculous if you have the fairing lowers installed as you need to clear that additional width while performing the lean and slight roll back to lock it in place. I too have been looking at the mentioned options. Just haven't made up my mind. The Brown side stand on my 1984 BMW was perfect and if the MG application were as effective as my BMW, it would be my preference. But there is that cost differential which is hard to ignore.
I have the big Convert style on my 850T and that is SOLID but not stylish for the SP.
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Please refer to post #9 . A hack saw , a drill and a tap and access to any welder ( or braze as I did ) and you've
got a custom fit one to your bike and your legs reach ! I must have $25.00 into it and maybe a couple of hours .
It's not hard , believe me , and yeah it's been on for over a decade . Peter
(2" of 1" round bar stock , 1 1/2 ft of 5/8" round stock , a drill and tap for the pivot bolt)
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I had my SP for 20 years, and for the first 10, I hated each and every time I had to deploy the original side stand as you have. With a 32" inseam, I just could not reach it while straddling the bike; I had to get off to do it. Once standing next to the bike, I just went ahead and why bother; I used the center stand. I finally fixed the issue by retrofitting the LM IV mid mount side stand; I could finally deploy it without getting off the bike.
Also, I see that you have saddle bags on you SP. I also had them, and this is what almost happened with mine once, after putting 3 2-liter soda bottles in the left side bag while the bike was parked on the original side stand: the bike almost lost balance and fell on its left side! I caught it just before reaching the point of no return. The mid mount stand made sure of that never happening from that moment on.
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Please refer to post #9 . A hack saw , a drill and a tap and access to any welder ( or braze as I did ) and you've
got a custom fit one to your bike and your legs reach ! I must have $25.00 into it and maybe a couple of hours .
It's not hard , believe me , and yeah it's been on for over a decade . Peter
(2" of 1" round bar stock , 1 1/2 ft of 5/8" round stock , a drill and tap for the pivot bolt)
Peter, did you say 2" of 1" round-bar (solid?)? Was that for the pivot point... and drilling for a socket-fit of the 5/8" roundstock? Some filing, obviously... 2"sounds shy of the mark.
(https://i.ibb.co/k1LjwtL/20220731-130915.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k1LjwtL)
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For a mid-mount stand on a budget, MG Cycle offers (currently out of stock) this bracket. One reuses their stand "leg" and springs. Note that there are two spring anchor positions - one for self-retracting and the other the stand stays down until the rider puts it up.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5093
Glad to see the current version of the bracket allows 2 choices of springs placement. The earlier ones did not.
Anyone have a picture of this on their bike?
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It was a quick fix to get around safety concerns from people driving off with the stands down and making left hand turns .
At the time probably safer than using an Italian electrical switch to kill the ignition :evil: Peter
Correct found this in the owners manual
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fjwWNxP/0/c2a02a21/S/i-fjwWNxP-S.jpg) (https://curtedwards.smugmug.com/Forum-Post/n-zvp7tH/i-fjwWNxP/A)
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In the MG Cycle website they also have listed a mid mount kit. accompanying pictures show this bracket as part of the kit installed on a G5. Maybe not as distinct a picture of the bracket but hopefully will give you a better idea of the end result.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5094
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My response from the other thread.
I have a Brown side stand on my Mille, works OK, interferes with centerstand (must be deployed to use centerstand). I had the mid-mount Guzzi sidestand. The Brown and the Guzzi both leave the bike too upright for my taste. I shortened the Guzzi stand some but it still felt insecure, tucked under the bike too much when deployed, didn't feel trustworthy. The Brown being out farther from the bike feels more trustworthy but the bike remains too vertical for me. I might modify the Brown mounting bracket some to change the angle, just been too lazy so far. I bought my Brown used for a lot less than they want now. I don't like the forward mount California stands cause I'm short legged and cannot reach them without difficulty, I do like the way they lean the bike, just right, looking to get that angle from a mid-mount sidestand. I also put a deployment peg midway along my Brown side stand for easier deployment.
Brian
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In the MG Cycle website they also have listed a mid mount kit. accompanying pictures show this bracket as part of the kit installed on a G5. Maybe not as distinct a picture of the bracket but hopefully will give you a better idea of the end result.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5094
Thanks!
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In the MG Cycle website they also have listed a mid mount kit. accompanying pictures show this bracket as part of the kit installed on a G5. Maybe not as distinct a picture of the bracket but hopefully will give you a better idea of the end result.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5094
Mid mount stand on my 1000S is not much better IMO. The bike has to be tilted to the right to deploy but you can easily move it out from the seated position but you have to get it moving then tilt the bike to the right until it clears the ground then shift the bike to the left. Most of the time on either the S or the LeMans or CX I just get off the bike and put them on the center stand.
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Mid mount stand on my 1000S is not much better IMO. The bike has to be tilted to the right to deploy but you can easily move it out from the seated position but you have to get it moving then tilt the bike to the right until it clears the ground then shift the bike to the left. Most of the time on either the S or the LeMans or CX I just get off the bike and put them on the center stand.
Me, too. I found I had to jack my bike up one full inch to allow the side stand to be deployed while the bike was held vertical on my lift. Here is a composite photo I made to see the effect of shortening the stand by that amount:
(https://i.ibb.co/6Jt5KYL/T3-kickstand-shortening-comparo-2.png) (https://ibb.co/R46WX2d)
(There is an explanation at the bottom.)
Still not shortened rhough.
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I had an 850-T from August, 1989 to January 1990 with that sidestand. I traded it in on a still new '87 SPII, again with that sidestand. Still have it. With the lowers on the bike you can't put the side stand down with your foot because your shin doesn't hinge forward in the middle.
It is singularly the worst side stand on any bike I have ever had and probably haven't used it three times in the past 10 years Instead I always go for the center stand.
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Mid mount stand on my 1000S is not much better IMO. The bike has to be tilted to the right to deploy but you can easily move it out from the seated position but you have to get it moving then tilt the bike to the right until it clears the ground then shift the bike to the left. Most of the time on either the S or the LeMans or CX I just get off the bike and put them on the center stand.
I think that is the path that I have chosen, I get it down until it touches, lay the bike over on it, then roll back just a bit to let it settle in. Then it is secure enough that I can get my arthritic butt off, then throw it on the side stand.
Thanks!
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Here's the set-up on my SP. Same as on many Cali's, T3 etc. Easy to deploy and retract from the saddle, does not interfere with center stand deployment etc. It may be a tad unsightly but in my case I opted for function over form.
Steve M
(https://i.ibb.co/zfd17q4/kissin-cousins.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zfd17q4)
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My 1100 Sport doesn't have a centre stand much to my dismay.......... And it does lean over a LOT on the side stand, interesting to get on and onto the side stand on all but dead flat ground! Thinking about at least welding another inch or 2 into the leg......... Not sure what else to do.....I got a "Chock" stand for in the shed at least.............. ........
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Here's the set-up on my SP. Same as on many Cali's, T3 etc. Easy to deploy and retract from the saddle, does not interfere with center stand deployment etc. It may be a tad unsightly but in my case I opted for function over form.
Steve M
(https://i.ibb.co/zfd17q4/kissin-cousins.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zfd17q4)
That doesn't look bad at all.
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Here's the set-up on my SP. Same as on many Cali's, T3 etc. Easy to deploy and retract from the saddle, does not interfere with center stand deployment etc. It may be a tad unsightly but in my case I opted for function over form.
Steve M
(https://i.ibb.co/zfd17q4/kissin-cousins.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zfd17q4)
Steve, that's a good looking SP. To my eye, the lowers improve (hide?) the aesthetics of the touring side stand. But its hard to beat the function of that stand....plus, if you're riding you are not looking at the stand.
My experience with the modified Brown is consistent with what others have said above, with possibly the exception that it keeps the bike too upright. On my LM III, the lean angle on the stand seems about right. Possibly it is differences in tire/suspension height that is causing the lean angle variations. The modified Brown stands produced by Boxerworks are made using purpose built welding jigs and are consistent with regard to geometry.
The mid mount stand on my SP III requires a notable lean to the right so it clears the ground when deploying and retracting, something I do not enjoy with the bike loaded for touring and/or pillion onboard.
I'd say there is no perfect solution, though I think the Cal/touring stand works well if you can reach it and are not bothered by its bulk and the modified Brown stand works well if you are not bothered by the fact that it must be deployed before raising the bike onto the center stand (and, also, not bothered by its price).
Scott
Athens, GA
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I just had a welder shorten my mid-mount kickstand, the one from MG Cycle mentioned earlier. I showed him what to remove with some red tape, like this:
(https://i.ibb.co/9NrcxdT/IMG-20220811-102224451.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L8ZYTst)
The total section to remove was about 7/8 of an inch. I discussed the angles of the two cuts with him, but his results were not exactly what I intended:
(https://i.ibb.co/qrbwkV5/IMG-20220813-142434232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0GP3hvt)
On the whole it seems acceptable.
(https://i.ibb.co/BtdM9b3/IMG-20220813-142305185.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c1Mnj03)
(https://i.ibb.co/pXjsgtd/IMG-20220813-142342325.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s39Dh0q)
The lean angle to the left is a little alarming, but it would take a serious pull to bring the bike over on its side. The kickstand and the center stand do not interfere with each other:
(https://i.ibb.co/thNtqgQ/IMG-20220813-143241110.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TTnS46Y)
I'm looking forward to some exciting new capabilities, like being able to park at the side of a country road, parallel to the edge!
The welder charged me 35 dollars.
Moto
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For a mid-mount stand on a budget, MG Cycle offers (currently out of stock) this bracket. One reuses their stand "leg" and springs. Note that there are two spring anchor positions - one for self-retracting and the other the stand stays down until the rider puts it up.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5093
Glad to see the current version of the bracket allows 2 choices of springs placement. The earlier ones did not.
I would sure like to see how that works. I had to replace my stock bracket as it had bent enough to really scare me. But the addition of this 2nd anchor does not work like described. One anchor behind the pivot bolt is what came stock on the Mille. That works like before. You raise the bike and it retracts. Now I set it up on the other anchor that is in front of the pivot bolt and it stays down. I retract it and it just immediately extends back down. So I do not figure how the 2nd pivot anchor is supposed to work. It sure doesn't for me and my bike came with that exact set up sans the 2nd anchor on the plate. Anybody out there who has this set up and tell me how to make my stand stay in place after picking the bike up?
The only good news for me is my height. I am 6'5" with 36" inseams so I can easily get my leg over the bike while is is on the side stand.
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I would sure like to see how that works. I had to replace my stock bracket as it had bent enough to really scare me. But the addition of this 2nd anchor does not work like described. One anchor behind the pivot bolt is what came stock on the Mille. That works like before. You raise the bike and it retracts. Now I set it up on the other anchor that is in front of the pivot bolt and it stays down. I retract it and it just immediately extends back down. So I do not figure how the 2nd pivot anchor is supposed to work. It sure doesn't for me and my bike came with that exact set up sans the 2nd anchor on the plate. Anybody out there who has this set up and tell me how to make my stand stay in place after picking the bike up?
The only good news for me is my height. I am 6'5" with 36" inseams so I can easily get my leg over the bike while is is on the side stand.
I still would have bought this plate as my previous stock one was bent 10-15ยบ lowering the bike precipitously. I can use the original anchor and it works like the stock Mille. It retracts as soon as I lift the bike.
But some have said this plate with the 2nd pivot anchor will not automatically retract and allow the rider to retract the side stand using their foot. This 2nd additional anchor point as I have tried to describe does not work that way. It stays in the standing position. I can move the stand all the way up under the center stand it let it go. The stand immediately pivots back into the full standing position. I have tried to explain why this is happening. I want to thank Triple Jim for helping me understand what is wrong that the stand will not stay retracted using the 2nd additional anchor pivot.
Why one anchor pivot on this center stand bracket does not work correctly.
(https://i.ibb.co/n0hRB99/Screen-Shot-2022-08-16-at-1-33-43-PM.png)
Below is a photo of the side stand in a vise. The springs are just sitting on there loose(one of which is upside down). And you are looking at this as if you are on the right side of the bike looking under the bike and looking where the bracket is attached to the bolts that hold it to the bike. The pivot bolt (with white tape on it) is clearly above the "new improved anchor" that supposedly allows the stand to not automatically retract. When I attach the springs in this position I cannot get it to stay retracted. As soon as I let loose of the side stand it immediately pulls the stand back into the upright position.
If I move the plate that the springs are attached to and move it to the rear original Mille anchor point the side stand will retract immediately when I lift the bike off the stand.
Note: The new spring anchor point, being lower than the pivot bolt, clearly tries to lower the stand when it's in the up position. If the anchor point were higher, then as the stand is retracted, at some point in the middle of the motion the spring link would cross the pivot bolt and start pulling the stand up.
(https://i.ibb.co/jggxC9J/IMG-2814.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V22hF0w)
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... Why one anchor pivot on this center stand bracket does not work correctly.
(https://i.ibb.co/n0hRB99/Screen-Shot-2022-08-16-at-1-33-43-PM.png)
Obviously, it must work somehow. Otherwise, why was it manufactured?
Evidently, it requires two springs, one attached to each anchor point. If you look at where those two springs would lie when the stand is retracted and extended, it seems clear that only one spring would exert a torque at each of those two positions, the other being aligned more or less in a straight line with the pivot.
The spring at the original anchor point holds the stand in the retracted position, while the spring at the new anchor point holds it in the extended position.
It seems likely that different springs are needed for this arrangement.* The t-bone spring holder would not be used.
It's not clear that MG Cycle understands this, judging by their posting. Perhaps a look at a German site would clarify.
Moto
* [EDIT] Probably two of the original single springs for the T3, etc., Part number: 14434000, or this spring, Part number: 19434000, or even one of each (!) might do. Those are both at MG Cycle.
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No need to say thanks, RedRider.
If anyone is considering using the two spring setup that I described, it might be worth considering that this would be illegal under modern regulations. It's a no-no to have a non-self-retracting kickstand unless there is an associated ignition cut-out, I understand. This may be the reason that the vendors do not mention how this plate was designed to be used.
Edit -- this is all based on the presumption that my long distance diagnosis is correct. There could be something wacky about the poster's kickstand arm or frame. Don't know.
Moto
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Just to throw a morsel of an idea into the ring.. for the bikes that lean too much. A hockey puck on bottom of a sidestand works great to add an inch and sure footing. I attach with couple small holes in foot and self tapping screws. Maybe would hit exhaust? I dunno. Works on adv bikes
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In the MG Cycle website they also have listed a mid mount kit. accompanying pictures show this bracket as part of the kit installed on a G5. Maybe not as distinct a picture of the bracket but hopefully will give you a better idea of the end result.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=5094
Thanks!
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just wondering how it works/looks when it's retracted up against the exhaust.
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I bought the MG mid mount stand for my SP this summer. When it's retracted, it's stop position is determined by the stand plate, the stand's leg does not contact anything. You can file the stop to raise the retracted position of the leg if necessary.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZYPt5WP/Sidestand-Guzzi-copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZYPt5WP)
I find that the MG side stand props up the SP just right, using the stock size tires. My only (minor) complaint is that when deploying the stand, it is necessary to tilt the bike slightly to the opposite side to allow the stand to swing past the ground to it's fully deployed position. After a few uses I now don't even think about it.
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I bought the MG mid mount stand for my SP this summer. When it's retracted, it's stop position is determined by the stand plate, the stand's leg does not contact anything. You can file the stop to raise the retracted position of the leg if necessary.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZYPt5WP/Sidestand-Guzzi-copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZYPt5WP)
I find that the MG side stand props up the SP just right, using the stock size tires. My only (minor) complaint is that when deploying the stand, it is necessary to tilt the bike slightly to the opposite side to allow the stand to swing past the ground to it's fully deployed position. After a few uses I now don't even think about it.
Geat info thanks!