Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kaladin on August 09, 2022, 05:16:10 PM
-
Hi Folks,
Friday I became the proud owner of a 2007 Norge, silver in aspect. Yesterday after work I took it for a ride up the canyon and have a lot of questions. I am going to break them down separately, but here are my initial impressions.
All I have to compare it to is my 2000 BMW R1150GS.
I really miss the paddle blinkers. I have pretty big hands, but it is a stretch to hit that blinking blinker button without taking my hand off the handle.
The Norge is smaller of course, and very nimble. Doing figure 8s in the parking lot is far easier.
The Norge seems to be faster off the line. A little easier to traffic optimize (here in Utah it is legal to sneak between two
rows of cars at the stop light). So it squeezed between the cars' rear view mirrors easier.
The seat is more comfortable than the beemer.
I miss the gear selection indicator. When I first got the GS I thought it was kind of superfluous, but now I see that I came to depend on it. I have lost my internal counter somewhere along the way.
-
On my 2007 Norge at around 5000 rpm there is a buzzing louder than the exhaust. I am thinking that it is the tappets. Is this normal?
-
I can't find anything in the manual describing the operation of the heated handgrips. Is it just one level, or do you get different levels by punching the button multiple times? It would be helpful if there was a pilot light that said it was "on."
-
This 2007 Norge is missing some of the tupperware. The engine sump fairing, and the right and left fairings behind the cylinder heads are long gone. I wasn't too worried about it because I have seen other Norges modified this way.
But my legs were roasting on the way down the canyon. Is this a result of not having the right plastic installed?
Or a sign that the engine is hotter than it should be?
thanks
Kaladin
-
Buzzing, not clattering? Look for something loose or vibrating metal to metal - exhaust heat shields, side/center stand springs, or even the license plate going harmonic with the engine rpm.
-
Every time I get on it it reads 85F. Is this a coincidence or a conspiracy?
-
It changes pitch with the engine speed.
-
There's three settings. Each time you press the "convenient" button, - which you will never hit by mistake, the setting changes. You have to hold the button down for a much longer period of time to turn them on or off. There's an icon, I think it looks like a heated grip that shows up on the right upper side of the dash / screen. It is not that easy to see. You should have plenty of time to figure it out before you need them.
I still have all the plastic on my Norge (same vintage) and I don't find the bike hot. In the current weather of over 90, I find everything is pretty hot. On the bike, waiting at traffic lights gets uncomfortable.
-
I chased that for a year. It was the header clamp bolt rubbing up against the heat shield on my V85. Drove me insane!
Valve clatter is normal and good.
-
Another thing not addressed by the manual. When I push the starting button the starting motor keeps running when I stop pushing on it. It seems to stop running only when the engine starts. Is this normal?
-
Sounds like the same engine start "cycle" that Ducati used for a few years in the early-mid 2000 models. Push and release the start button. Engine cranks until it starts or about 15 sec. then it gives up.
-
Some people report the bike running cooler for the rider with all of the plastic but I don’t remember it diverting much heat with all the plastic in place. Has a new map been installed on this bike? A custom map has helped some of the 4 valve engined Norges but my 07 still produces heat in hot humid weather with the current map.
The 8valve Norges run cooler and I believe it is because Guzzi relocated the oil cooler at the lower part of the engine as opposed to the knee level of the engine on the earlier models. Also, the 8v’s have a small fan behind the oil cooler which I assume is triggered at a particular engine temperature.
-
This 2007 Norge is missing some of the tupperware. The engine sump fairing, and the right and left fairings behind the cylinder heads are long gone. I wasn't too worried about it because I have seen other Norges modified this way.
But my legs were roasting on the way down the canyon. Is this a result of not having the right plastic installed?
Or a sign that the engine is hotter than it should be?
thanks
Kaladin
What boots and pants were you wearing? Thick leather boots and kevlar lined jeans with knee armor will protect you from that heat.
-
I bought my ‘07 new and took those bits off after 3 minutes.
I gave them to JD Gretz.
-
Yep. This is perfectly normal. Carry on.
Skippy
-
Yes.
They are supposed to, do you like the bike ?
Have you done the Startus mod and greased the dry bits ?
-
Does it then adjust to the actual ambient ?
-
I jump from this
(https://i.ibb.co/QpY3hPD/D6-A1910-D-DBD8-4-DC0-858-E-3-F3-C092-AC51-F.png) (https://ibb.co/QpY3hPD)
To this
(https://i.ibb.co/prpzsH6/1-F691-C61-6-C6-D-4556-96-EE-91-CE5-B00-FD69.jpg) (https://ibb.co/prpzsH6)
A hell of a lot.
You are riding 2 different bikes and will see differences, naturally. I’ve no clue what you mean about the blinker switch, I reckon it’s just fine. I’ve had my Norge for a little while now, so maybe I’d forgotten how awkward it was.
I don’t think there is a gulf of difference in the comfort of the two, that 1150 GS is pretty darn good IMO as far as that goes, but has the personality of a wooden spoon.
As for the gear indicator…
I cannot conceive of ANY reason why an experienced motorcyclist would need to confirm he is in the right gear by looking at a number on the panel.
By example..
4th gear might be great for tooling down a flat level road at 40 mph, but entirely inappropriate for pulling out to pass, heavily loaded up a steep hill.
Just give the bike what it wants.
One exception I’ll concede, is you may be at 120 kph into a strong wind and the noise MAY reduce your ability to hear the exhaust note. Under those circumstances I have found myself still in 5 th, rarely, but I have done it.
Just a tap of the clutch lever and the lightest of swipe with my left toe and the issue is gone…
Congratulations on buying a good solid bike.
Ignore the lightweight BS about blinker switches, gear indicators and such. Get your bike in the shed, get yourself a lift and pull the rear bevelbox and swingarm.
Check the pivot races for grease and also the drive splines.
Do the Startus Interruptus mod…..There is a lot of info about both here on WG.
If it’s not fuelling perfectly, get a BEETLE map and learn to balance your own TB’s.
Get Guzzidiag.
Learn to do your own regular maintenance. I or anyone here who has one will help you through any and everything.
Mine has had 10 major and 20 minor services in it’s lifetime and it runs perfectly.
That bike in the top shot is 1,500 km short of 200,000 and that will be put right at Lake Como in 4 weeks.
-
Yes, I have been bragging about the BMW to my Harley riding brothers for years, and they all say, then why the MG? I'm now trying to figure it out for myself. It looks like my wife is being less vocal about one of the four of us having to leave, so I might be able to keep both bikes.
I'm glad to see that I am in good company, though I wish I had your red one than my silver one. . .
-
I bled the brakes and the clutch before I drove it. Now I have to explore the forums to find out what to do next. I hear you say startus and grease. I'll look it up.
-
What boots and pants were you wearing? Thick leather boots and kevlar lined jeans with knee armor will protect you from that heat.
I had my motorcycle jacket on, but dress slacks and shoes. Asbestos trousers are really required?
-
I bought my ‘07 new and took those bits off after 3 minutes.
I gave them to JD Gretz.
OK, thanks for the vote of confidence. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to spend a couple thousand dollars for replacement tupperware trying to reduce the hot leg issue
-
Yes, I have been bragging about the BMW to my Harley riding brothers for years, and they all say, then why the MG? I'm now trying to figure it out for myself. It looks like my wife is being less vocal about one of the four of us having to leave, so I might be able to keep both bikes.
I'm glad to see that I am in good company, though I wish I had your red one than my silver one. . .
Mate…
It’s true that the red ones are nice and I would not change it, but here’s the thing…
Don’t lament what your bike is not, just service it inside out and ride the bastard. Get it dirty, clean it and ride it again…and again….and…..the silver ones are damn nice.
-
I bled the brakes and the clutch before I drove it. Now I have to explore the forums to find out what to do next. I hear you say startus and grease. I'll look it up.
Well done on the clutch and brake bleed. They are hard on clutch fluid. I do mine every 20,000 k
Same with the front forks. Remove them, empty and flush then in with the new fluid. That red bike is still on it’s original seals.
-
dress slacks and shoes.
Stop riding in dress shoes and slacks mate.
Your knee caps will be smeared into the stones on the road, mixed with the sinews and red meat from what used to be your legs.
You bought your Norge to ride it mate, don’t end up in a wheelchair if you can avoid it.
-
There's three settings. Each time you press the "convenient" button, - which you will never hit by mistake, the setting changes. You have to hold the button down for a much longer period of time to turn them on or off. There's an icon, I think it looks like a heated grip that shows up on the right upper side of the dash / screen. It is not that easy to see. You should have plenty of time to figure it out before you need them.
I still have all the plastic on my Norge (same vintage) and I don't find the bike hot. In the current weather of over 90, I find everything is pretty hot. On the bike, waiting at traffic lights gets uncomfortable.
Nice at Nordkapp though… :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/Xp2gyyc/864628-C4-D498-4-B79-A3-E1-A3940-A6-E7-EC4.png) (https://ibb.co/Xp2gyyc)
-
I had my motorcycle jacket on, but dress slacks and shoes. Asbestos trousers are really required?
:popcorn:
-
I have bumped a post called “Norge service schedule”
It’s what I do for mine.
-
Might I suggest you put your 'first ride comments in ONE post?
-
Yes the bike does provide ample heating to legs. Especially on the opposite side from a good side breez, long rides on hot humid days often leave one leg or the other red. I always have my Aero Stitch pants on and mid calve ridding boots. Above the boot and below the knee get hot. Noticeably hotter than when I ride my EV in similar conditions. But the ride is always so worth it. On a side note the heat off a Norge is nothing compared to the old Honda Valkre.
-
As old mate said…
Put all your questions in one post mate, we know who you are now. But please do feel free to keep them coming, I love those 2VPC Norges.
-
Reset the tappets just to be sure. Also check the oil level. Low oil on the Norge can give an odd sound.
-
Does it then adjust to the actual ambient ?
Yes, on closer inspection it reverts to actual ambient temperature after a while. Thanks.
-
Mate…
It’s true that the red ones are nice and I would not change it, but here’s the thing…
Don’t lament what your bike is not, just service it inside out and ride the bastard. Get it dirty, clean it and ride it again…and again….and…..the silver ones are damn nice.
Oh, I do like the silver, but I think the red is more visible.
-
Reset the tappets just to be sure. Also check the oil level. Low oil on the Norge can give an odd sound.
The last owner left a note saying that he had adjusted the tappets and bled the brakes within 100 miles of when I bought it. But since the rear brakes were so full of air they wouldn't grab, maybe I ought to check the tappets again as well.
-
So. . . the manual says that I should be able to start the Norge in gear with the clutch pulled in, it definitely won't. I stalled it and had to get it into neutral to start it. If I was in an intersection it could have been dangerous. What would cause this?
thanks
Kaladin
-
The last owner left a note saying that he had adjusted the tappets and bled the brakes within 100 miles of when I bought it. But since the rear brakes were so full of air they wouldn't grab, maybe I ought to check the tappets again as well.
Yes.
Do you know how ?
-
Check that the clutch switch functionality is as it should.
I don't know which way around the Norge is, but if it's open circuit with the lever released, it should be closed with the lever pulled in
My V9 had this problem when I fitted aftermarket levers that didn't allow the switch to close even when pulled fully to the bar
-
It's either the switch or the relay. Time to get your multi-meter out.
If you do a search I'm sure this has been covered by Kiwi Roy or Huzo.
If you push the switch button in does it start in gear? Does your lever push on the switch far enough?
It's right on the left bar.
Don't forget you have to have the sidestand up!
-
Was the kickstand down?
-
The kickstand is up, I check that the kickstand light is off. I put it in first gear and pull to a stop. Hit the kill switch. With the clutch fully engaged I then try to start it. Nothing happens. I pop it into Neutral and then it starts right up. I'll check the switch, that seems to be the natural place to look.
thanks
-
Yes.
Do you know how ?
Not yet :laugh:
I should mention that since I am 250 miles from the closest dealer I intend to do all the maintenance myself. The R1150GS has never seen the inside of a BMW service bay.
-
You can remove the valve covers without having to remove the fairing in case you were wondering.
-
I had my motorcycle jacket on, but dress slacks and shoes. Asbestos trousers are really required?
With dress slacks and shoes many would complain about the heat from a 250cc bike. The heat has to go somewhere.
The secondary benefit of kevlar Jean's and boots will become apparent when you slide on the pavement.
-
I have noticed this issue (off and on) with both Norges that I have owned. I also encountered the same with the two Norges that I test rode before I bought my first one.
Jon
-
It's hot no matter what you are wearing if it's in the 90's with high humidity. I rarely ride mine in the summer unless I'm going somewhere cooler, but it's better than when I owned an SPIII. I'd roast behind that fairing.
(https://i.ibb.co/V3CQLtx/Image-8-4-17-at-11-29-AM.jpg)
I even tried adopting the scoops at the heads like the 8V's but it didn't make a significant change.
-
It's either the switch or the relay. Time to get your multi-meter out.
If you do a search I'm sure this has been covered by Kiwi Roy or Huzo.
If you push the switch button in does it start in gear? Does your lever push on the switch far enough?
It's right on the left bar.
Don't forget you have to have the sidestand up!
I can and will tell you this much.
Mine buggered up about 5 years ago and I just pulled the wires and joined them. My bike will start in gear with the side stand up, but I don’t think it will if the stand is down.
I can’t exactly remember…
I’ll check when I get to UK.
-
You can remove the valve covers without having to remove the fairing in case you were wondering.
Thanks.
-
Actually, you don’t have to remove the tank either.
But here’s the thing.
Just take the tank off and do the plugs. Check the air and fuel filters while in there, it’ll remove the possibility of it buggering up.
Don’t try the shortcut route mate, you’ll see all sorts of beaut things you can learn and just get to know it.
If you don’t go through and tick these things off, you’ll just be another Norge rider that sells his Guzzi for a VStrom or similar, to rid himself of the perceived unreliability of an Italian bike.
If you want your bike to understand you…..?
You’ll need to learn to understand it…
-
Actually, you don’t have to remove the tank either.
But here’s the thing.
Just take the tank off and do the plugs. Check the air and fuel filters while in there, it’ll remove the possibility of it buggering up.
Don’t try the shortcut route mate, you’ll see all sorts of beaut things you can learn and just get to know it.
If you don’t go through and tick these things off, you’ll just be another Norge rider that sells his Guzzi for a VStrom or similar, to rid himself of the perceived unreliability of an Italian bike.
If you want your bike to understand you…..?
You’ll need to learn to understand it…
I agree, didn’t see how many miles are on the bike but I’d go through the whole bike. Grease the steering head bearings, change the inner plugs, change the belt, grease the shock linkage, etc,etc unless the previous owner has documented all of the work.
-
The kickstand is up, I check that the kickstand light is off. I put it in first gear and pull to a stop. Hit the kill switch. With the clutch fully engaged I then try to start it. Nothing happens. I pop it into Neutral and then it starts right up. I'll check the switch, that seems to be the natural place to look.
thanks
Hey, I looked on wiring diagram, the clutch switch (brown/violate) wire goes to #33 pin on blue connector on back of ECU.
The sidestand switch & neutral switch both go to the brown plug in back of ECU
Looks like those all are operated by ECU, the safety switches.
I would unplug the ECU connectors and clean pins w/DeOxit and re-install. They are right under steering head. May work like normal then.
-
I do get a fair amount of gurgling and popping from the exhaust when I am going downhill in compression, so it looks like I have the standard mapping. Looks like there are various priced options for remapping systems. Am I opening a can of worms to ask if Beetle is sufficient?
Also, when I filled with gas there was a big puff of air coming out of the gas tank as I opened the plug. Normal?
Also, what does CARC stand for?
-
I do get a fair amount of gurgling and popping from the exhaust when I am going downhill in compression, so it looks like I have the standard mapping. Looks like there are various priced options for remapping systems. Am I opening a can of worms to ask if Beetle is sufficient?
Also, when I filled with gas there was a big puff of air coming out of the gas tank as I opened the plug. Normal?
thanks
Get the wires and contact Beetle. Shouldn't be a big puff of air when opening the tank, by the way do you know if the fuel filter inside the tank has been changed?
If you don't know, do a search on here about changing out that filter then you can check the breather tubes on the tank.
-
Get the wires and contact Beetle. Shouldn't be a big puff of air when opening the tank, by the way do you know if the fuel filter inside the tank has been changed?
If you don't know, do a search on here about changing out that filter then you can check the breather tubes on the tank.
The man I bought it from only drove it a few miles before he decided that it wasn't for him. I can understand why: the back brake didn't work and the front tire only had 5 psi. There was a note under the seat about recent brake bleeding and tappet adjustment. So I don't have access to the original owner to ask him what has been done. The only mod I can see is an Apple charge cable running up to the handlebars.
So I'll check out the fuel filter. My first task is to get the VIN number examined so I can complete the registration. So I will learn how to do parking lot fuel tank moving on Saturday.
-
So I will learn how to do parking lot fuel tank moving on Saturday.
Can you try that again ?
I would presume that the previous owner has done nothing and anything he has done is wrong.
If you get a lift for the bike and do the things I outlined in the service schedule, you’ll be close to ok….
-
Can you try that again ?
I would presume that the previous owner has done nothing and anything he has done is wrong.
If you get a lift for the bike and do the things I outlined in the service schedule, you’ll be close to ok….
I can't show the officer the VIN number, it is under the tank. So I assume that I will have to move the tank back in order to get it registered.
-
The man I bought it from only drove it a few miles before he decided that it wasn't for him. I can understand why: the back brake didn't work and the front tire only had 5 psi. There was a note under the seat about recent brake bleeding and tappet adjustment. So I don't have access to the original owner to ask him what has been done. The only mod I can see is an Apple charge cable running up to the handlebars.
So I'll check out the fuel filter. My first task is to get the VIN number examined so I can complete the registration. So I will learn how to do parking lot fuel tank moving on Saturday.
I'd take a picture of the VIN number when you practice the removal of the tank, maybe you will get lucky with the DMV.
The rear brake is one of those mystery issues, I've never had that problem on my bike but others have a regular problem with that brake. I did have to replace the rear caliper as the accordion part of the caliper froze up and even with repeated lubrication,etc. it just wouldn't budge so I purchased a used one on eBay.
How many miles on the bike? Not knowing what has been done I'd do a thorough check from front to back. A search on WG will cover most everything in terms of maintenance. If the original fuel filter hasn't been changed it will stop the bike if it breaks; basically the original fuel filter is half plastic and ethanol causes the plastic part to burst. Mine was bloated by the time I got it out and I changed it out with whatever is recommended. I did not use the crimp clamps as others have recommended, but just used standard stainless steel clamps found everywhere and this was about 10 years ago. So far so good. In fact it might be time to change it again.....You should also bleed the ABS pump, there is a hose underneath the seat to bleed the pump. Grease the gears on the fairing screen, as that can be a problem. The motor for my screen has been fine but others have had issues. If the suspension is an issue there are solutions for that problem but it just involves money and some time but it all depends on your riding style. Mine is an early production so the rear shock spring was undersized; I changed the shock but others installed a heavier spring. And there is a valving kit for the front forks to improve the handling. Only use the recommended oil, 20W50 is not an option and there is plenty of topics related to that issue. Sorry, this is sort of rambling but I'm just thinking of what should be addressed and while this may sound like a lot, it really isn't that complicated. I only have about 60K on my bike but Huzo has way more miles than most and I'll let him discuss how much he loves the bike.
-
I did fix the rear brake by bleeding all the air of it. Works great now.
It has 27,000 miles on it.
Great idea with the photo scheme, zooming in and out with a copy my ID in the photo might do the trick.
I have an endoscope, I'll scope out the fuel filter.
A motorcycle lift sounds like just the thing. For my beemer as well, getting too old for a lot of crouching.
-
I believe the rear brake bleeding is an ongoing issue. Hopefully not for your bike.
You should look through this thread, itt may seem overwhelming but you will or someone will have to do this sooner or later.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=66579.msg1021807#msg1021807
If you do have to change the fuel filter it really isn't that difficult, in fact removing the tank is probably more difficult than changing the filter. Once the tank is off, just flip it over, remove all of the bolts (obvious once seen) that house the filter and an electrical connection then pull the whole unit.
Yeah, a lift is helpful. I don't have the room for one or I'd have one by now.
-
Hey, I looked on wiring diagram, the clutch switch (brown/violate) wire goes to #33 pin on blue connector on back of ECU.
The sidestand switch & neutral switch both go to the brown plug in back of ECU
Looks like those all are operated by ECU, the safety switches.
I would unplug the ECU connectors and clean pins w/DeOxit and re-install. They are right under steering head. May work like normal then.
I’ve owned an 08 1200 Sport since 2013 and it too only starts in neutral (The same problem) I’d like to fix it also so it starts in any gear with the clutch pulled in. Could you tell me where the ECU is located on my bike so I could look into fixing that? Should be the same as a Norge. Or can you show a picture of the ECU with its location? Thanks
-
After 5 years I finally installed the Beatle map on my Norge last fall. Dumbest thing I ever did was to wait 5 years to do it. 100% the absolute best money I ever spent on a motorcycle. Starts better, runs as smooth as “fill in the blank” and a noticeable power increase. Tidy up everything else first. Don’t give up on her. Once you have all the little things working, install the map and you will not stop smiling. Also, for me, the pilot road 4’s and up seam to work just right for me. Longish life and great performance.
(https://i.ibb.co/1dbdN05/B6603-D20-92-A5-43-B5-93-A3-FE6-B7369-A9-BF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1dbdN05)
-
I’ve owned an 08 1200 Sport since 2013 and it too only starts in neutral (The same problem) I’d like to fix it also so it starts in any gear with the clutch pulled in. Could you tell me where the ECU is located on my bike so I could look into fixing that? Should be the same as a Norge. Or can you show a picture of the ECU with its location? Thanks
I like this feature, is extra insurance and protection from being dumb...... (not that any of you guys have to worry about that) :evil:
-
I’ve owned an 08 1200 Sport since 2013 and it too only starts in neutral (The same problem) I’d like to fix it also so it starts in any gear with the clutch pulled in. Could you tell me where the ECU is located on my bike so I could look into fixing that? Should be the same as a Norge. Or can you show a picture of the ECU with its location? Thanks
There is a plastic cover over it or in front of it, under it between front frame down tubes under steering stem, both harness plugs are a pain to get off. Best to undo tiewraps holding harness on both sides.
-
There is a plastic cover over it or in front of it, under it between front frame down tubes under steering stem, both harness plugs are a pain to get off. Best to undo tiewraps holding harness on both sides.
Do I have to remove the gas tank to get to the ECU?
-
In answer to Blackcat’s post back a bit..
Yes I do love my Norge, but possibly not significantly more than most others. I will admit that having owned it for 17 years and 200,000 k, I have learned about most of the things that are likely to crop up.
It is true that they get looser and creamier in the power delivery and gearbox as they age.
The heads have never been off mine, original front rotors, seals, clutch, etc…
It will be getting a new oil pump after Mandello and also timing gears from Joe Caruso.
I was going to take my V85 for the 101st, but just could not conceive of the Norge not being there.
-
Do I have to remove the gas tank to get to the ECU?
Yes, it's easier to deal w/it. It is behind the wings on tank,
-
Not yet :laugh:
I should mention that since I am 250 miles from the closest dealer I intend to do all the maintenance myself. The R1150GS has never seen the inside of a BMW service bay.
Here you go…
Remove the seat.
Remove the side covers…(these ones.
(https://i.ibb.co/gJ32hqb/FDCFFB4-A-B488-4-F08-A68-C-F204-C24-A3219.png) (https://ibb.co/gJ32hqb)
Remove the tank…
Remove the small 30 mm diameter round inspection bung in the alternator belt cover on the front of the engine.
Remove the black plastic plug lead covers that fit over the tappet cover (left side).
Remove left plug cap and outer plug.
Remove left side tappet cover.
Obtain the suitable socket and rotate the crank by the front nut clockwise when viewed from the front and have a plastic straw handy to insert in the plug hole…(a glamorous assistant is invaluable here…)
Continue rotating the crank until the straw tells you the piston is descending with the rear (inlet) rocker depressing the valve…(this is the intake stroke).
The piston will reach BDC and the inlet valve will close.
Keep winding…
As the piston reaches TDC, you will detect the point where the crank can rotate a few degrees fore and aft with no discernible piston movement..(this is TDC on compression stroke and the point at which to check your clearances).
The front (Exhaust) should be 0.006” and the rear (Inlet) 0.004”
The nut on the rocker is 11mm I think.
If you have any leakage from the rocker gaskets, replace them with the green Valpolini ones, you can use them over and over.
No need to butcher up the bolts on the cover, just a nice even nip all ‘round.
Replace all the dross that you took off.
Now go ahead and repeat the procedure on the Right side.
Done…!
-
I have the 2007 Breva. Number one thing about the heat that I have noticed is once I get above 5,000 rpm the heat goes way up, and as soon as I drop back below that point the heat goes away as fast as it came on. The Breva has been an awesome machine.
-
By the way, that puff of air I experienced when filling the tank the first time could have been because I bought the bike at low altitudes and filled it at a high altitude. Potato chip bags up here look like Mylar balloons for the same reason.
-
Here you go…
Remove the seat.
Thanks, with your encouragement I will try it tomorrow. Any idea about the torque settings for the nuts?
-
Thanks, with your encouragement I will try it tomorrow. Any idea about the torque settings for the nuts?
No, but just do them up.
-
The tappet adj locknuts are 12ftlbs (my setting), I do them w/torque wrench so all are equal. I'm anal like that for tune-ups.
-
Thanks. You don't have to be anal to care. You just have to have my experience causing problems over tightening and under tightening various critical bolts over the years.
-
If that much bothers you make it lighter but all the same. I've had good luck doing it that way for a living. No $ in it but had lots of fun.
-
Sorry if I came across wrong. I am very grateful for your suggestion and will tighten according to your recommendations. I have had troubles in the past and now always look for torque specs.
-
After 5 years I finally installed the Beatle map on my Norge last fall. Dumbest thing I ever did was to wait 5 years to do it. 1
I have taken the advice of the forum and purchased the map, the cables, and downloaded all the software. Tomorrow I intend to do the tappets and replace the spark plugs ($20 for a spark plug?). Then when the cables come in I'll remap.
-
I have taken the advice of the forum and purchased the map, the cables, and downloaded all the software. Tomorrow I intend to do the tappets and replace the spark plugs ($20 for a spark plug?). Then when the cables come in I'll remap.
That is admirable..
If you decide to learn how to balance your throttle bodies, make sure you are aware of which screw to turn and the correct procedure.
For your own sake, let us know before you commence the process.
Suffice to say..
The left TB is set at the factory to flow a certain amount of air.
The balance process involves closing BOTH air screws and setting the right butterfly to the left one @ 3,000 rpm and then, opening ONE of the air bleeds to get the idle right @ 1,200 rpm.
A home made manometer will suffice.
-
I have taken the advice of the forum and purchased the map, the cables, and downloaded all the software. Tomorrow I intend to do the tappets and replace the spark plugs ($20 for a spark plug?). Then when the cables come in I'll remap.
I hope it’s not too late to tell you, but before you remove the inner plug/s, blow around the area with compressed air.
More than once there have been little stones in the vicinity of the plug base..
You don’t want any toppling into the cylinder with the plug out…! :sad:
-
That is admirable..
If you decide to learn how to balance your throttle bodies, make sure you are aware of which screw to turn and the correct procedure.
For your own sake, let us know before you commence the process.
Suffice to say..
The left TB is set at the factory to flow a certain amount of air.
The balance process involves closing BOTH air screws and setting the right butterfly to the left one @ 3,000 rpm and then, opening ONE of the air bleeds to get the idle right @ 1,200 rpm.
A home made manometer will suffice.
Thanks, I have 4-way manometer, I just have to find it. Hopefully by next Saturday.
-
I hope it’s not too late to tell you, but before you remove the inner plug/s, blow around the area with compressed air.
More than once there have been little stones in the vicinity of the plug base..
You don’t want any toppling into the cylinder with the plug out…! :sad:
Good advice, I'm on my way to pick up the spark plugs at O'Rileys.
-
Good advice, I'm on my way to pick up the spark plugs at O'Rileys.
The tube spanner required to get the inner plugs out is a thin walled item. Quite specific.
-
The tube spanner required to get the inner plugs out is a thin walled item. Quite specific.
I just bought a cheap socket and ground it down with a bench grinder.
-
Saturday I was able to check the tappets, take off the tank, change the inner spark plugs and the air filter.
The gas filter is of the old style, and the plastic is quite swollen. I am glad for the advice to check it.
Two problems. First, while I was trying to remove the gas line from the tank I knocked the tank off the bike, which broke the red fuel connector. I have to find another one.
Second, the right side spark plug boot was impossible to get off. Not much room for a lot of grip. Finally I went down and bought a pair of boot pliers. That pulled it off nicely. Then discovered the real problem. The cap was welded to the electrode, and pulling the boot off, pulled off the cap, which was stuck to the terminal nut. It took considerable work to get the cap off the nut, and sure enough there was a spot-weld mark on the terminal. I have never seen that before.
I need to investigate how to fix this.
-
Saturday I was able to check the tappets, take off the tank, change the inner spark plugs and the air filter.
The gas filter is of the old style, and the plastic is quite swollen. I am glad for the advice to check it.
Two problems. First, while I was trying to remove the gas line from the tank I knocked the tank off the bike, which broke the red fuel connector. I have to find another one.
Second, the right side spark plug boot was impossible to get off. Not much room for a lot of grip. Finally I went down and bought a pair of boot pliers. That pulled it off nicely. Then discovered the real problem. The cap was welded to the electrode, and pulling the boot off, pulled off the cap, which was stuck to the terminal nut. It took considerable work to get the cap off the nut, and sure enough there was a spot-weld mark on the terminal. I have never seen that before.
I need to investigate how to fix this.
I didn't want to jinx you on the gas tank removal, however, now that you have been initiated into the broken fuel connector club, you can obtain these replacement parts from Gutsibits, or you can even buy the metal one from BMW and cut into the lines so that future removal is much easier than the existing setup (which is made easier by buying the right tool to "squeeze/press/separate").
Plastic version: https://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?f=d&q=FUA01692
Metal version: https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cpcqkdiscon.html
Might not be a bad idea to get a new set of spark plug wires...
-
[Might not be a bad idea to get a new set of spark plug wires...
[/quote]
Thanks. Can I take this as hopeful news that the coil assembly is separate from the spark plug wires? So I don't have to buy a new coil?
-
[Might not be a bad idea to get a new set of spark plug wires...
Thanks. Can I take this as hopeful news that the coil assembly is separate from the spark plug wires? So I don't have to buy a new coil?
Well, I can't guarantee that, but I'd start with the plug wires before replacing the coils, unless you have some concrete specific info that the coil is bad.
-
Might not be a bad idea to get a new set of spark plug wires...
Maybe I missed something but why change the spark plug wires?
-
Maybe I missed something but why change the spark plug wires?
From Kaladin's description above:
Second, the right side spark plug boot was impossible to get off. Not much room for a lot of grip. Finally I went down and bought a pair of boot pliers. That pulled it off nicely. Then discovered the real problem. The cap was welded to the electrode, and pulling the boot off, pulled off the cap, which was stuck to the terminal nut. It took considerable work to get the cap off the nut, and sure enough there was a spot-weld mark on the terminal. I have never seen that before.
I need to investigate how to fix this.
-
From Kaladin's description above:
Second, the right side spark plug boot was impossible to get off. Not much room for a lot of grip. Finally I went down and bought a pair of boot pliers. That pulled it off nicely. Then discovered the real problem. The cap was welded to the electrode, and pulling the boot off, pulled off the cap, which was stuck to the terminal nut. It took considerable work to get the cap off the nut, and sure enough there was a spot-weld mark on the terminal. I have never seen that before.
I need to investigate how to fix this.
Thanks, missed that and that is weird, wonder what caused that to happen?
-
I have seen this many times, CARC's & newer run real hot compared to the single plug heads.
NGK caps 90*, car wires cut to fit. ALL DONE. Theese will work------------
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_157&products_id=4691
Arcing from loose plug cap that screws on.
-
Thanks, missed that and that is weird, wonder what caused that to happen?
It turns out I have considerable experience resistance-welding dissimilar metals, or I might not have
spotted it. The only thing I can think of is that there was a combination of small contact area
and high resistance to cause the weld.
-
I have seen this many times, CARC's & newer run real hot compared to the single plug heads.
NGK caps 90*, car wires cut to fit. ALL DONE. Theese will work------------
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_157&products_id=4691
Arcing from loose plug cap that screws on.
Thanks for the referral, I was looking at far more expensive solutions.
-
Most bike shops carry the NGK caps. They don't work on the inside plugs, those take a different one.
-
This is one of the inside spark plug wires.
-
I didn't want to jinx you on the gas tank removal, however, now that you have been initiated into the broken fuel connector club, you can obtain these replacement parts from Gutsibits, or you can even buy the metal one from BMW and cut into the lines so that future removal is much easier than the existing setup (which is made easier by buying the right tool to "squeeze/press/separate").
Plastic version: https://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?f=d&q=FUA01692
Metal version: https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cpcqkdiscon.html
I have been on a wild ride. Gutsibits is out of stock. Then I discovered that these red spigots are used in Ford cars. But only on Escorts, and only in Europe, no stock in the USA at Ford. Ford part number 1330328 for a red one, or 1072003 for the white version. Then I found a dozen sources in Europe, but when you "add to cart" they ALL say that they won't ship to the USA. Finally found that Husky uses them, and some clever fellow has made an aluminum version.
(https://i.ibb.co/bNd7Vxs/aluminum-elbow.webp) (https://ibb.co/bNd7Vxs)
It is missing the washer of sharps that retains the plastic ones, so you have to drill and tap a hole for a set screw. The $43 price is less than shipping the plastic one from Europe, so I am happy. https://ziptyracing.com/products/fuel-pump-elbow-oem-8000ah2930-gte-fi-husky
-
That's a good find...hopefully it works.
Last time I bought from Gutsibits I bought two of them, so I have a spare one still available...did you try calling them to see when they would get it back in stock?
Might be worthwhile calling MG Cycle, Harpers, AF1 and see if any of them have it in stock as well...all stateside parts supplies for Guzzi.
-
That's a good find...hopefully it works.
Last time I bought from Gutsibits I bought two of them, so I have a spare one still available...did you try calling them to see when they would get it back in stock?
Might be worthwhile calling MG Cycle, Harpers, AF1 and see if any of them have it in stock as well...all stateside parts supplies for Guzzi.
Yes, I got a nice e-mail from them asking if I wanted to be informed. Thanks for your kind offer, I have already purchased the aluminum one and want to try that first.
-
I got the bike back together Saturday afternoon, having changed the air filter (the old one looked OK), the outer spark plugs (the old ones looked pristine), the inner spark plugs (deposits from 27.5k miles, but not obviously bad), and the gas filter (the plastic swollen like a blimp, glad I caught it).
Then filled it with ethanol-free and took it for a ride up the canyon. There was a very noticeable improvement, especially running smooth as butter and a surprisingly wide torque range. At speeds between 50 and 80 mph I just stayed in 3rd gear. I guess the inner spark plugs were worse than they looked.
Still need to fix the "starting with the clutch engaged" problem, balance the throttle bodies, and update the fuel map.
The left spark plugs looked like they were running rich.
-
Excellent news! Highly recommend doing the Guzzidiag TPS and parameters learning reset process, and also doing the TB balancing with the manometer/Carbtune, assuming you haven't already done that. Good to be back on the road again!
-
Saturday I got the throttle bodies balanced (out by a quarter of a turn).
I struggled for 2.5 hours trying to get the laptop to communicate with the ECU. Finally I found another connector back by the tool kit and tried that. It connected up the first try. Evidently the one by the "glove box" is for something else, though it looks identical. :violent1:
I loaded the Beetle map and took it for a ride. First impression is that now it starts on the first try instead of the second. Torque range better than ever.
By the way, I took a photo of the VIN tag including in the photo my driver's license and the key, but the DMV wouldn't even look at the photos. So today I am going down again to disassemble in the parking lot to get this registered.
-
I also took a look at the microswitch on the clutch lever assembly. Using my ohm meter and needle test method I determined that sure enough, it isn't closing. Any suggestions for a source of a new one?
-
I also took a look at the microswitch on the clutch lever assembly. Using my ohm meter and needle test method I determined that sure enough, it isn't closing. Any suggestions for a source of a new one?
Unfortunately they are back ordered. I have no idea what that clutch switch is for, and if mine is bad it’s never showed up as code on the dash.
https://www.af1racing.com/filterSearch?adv=true&cid=0&mid=0&vid=0&q=Ap8113998&sid=true&isc=true&orderBy=20
-
Unfortunately they are back ordered. I have no idea what that clutch switch is for, and if mine is bad it’s never showed up as code on the dash.
https://www.af1racing.com/filterSearch?adv=true&cid=0&mid=0&vid=0&q=Ap8113998&sid=true&isc=true&orderBy=20
I took mine off.
It’s there so that you can start the bike in gear, but only with the lever in…(as I recall). I think if I put my Norge in gear on the side stand and hit the button it will jump forward with predictable results.
I know for sure if you hit the starter in gear with the stand up, it WILL jump forward, the switch prevents this. Just another thing to bugger up…
Anyway, mine began to give trouble, so I took it off and joined the wires 10 years ago.
-
Yes, the clutch microswitch tells the bike that the clutch is pulled in so the starting motor will operate. Otherwise the starting motor won't operate unless you are in neutral.
It is good to know that shorting out the leads will not have any unintended consequences. I'll do that until I can get the new switch installed.
I stalled the bike this morning at a stop thinking I was in neutral and had to hunt around for neutral to get it started again. Embarrassing.
-
I took mine off.
It’s there so that you can start the bike in gear, but only with the lever in…(as I recall). I think if I put my Norge in gear on the side stand and hit the button it will jump forward with predictable results.
I know for sure if you hit the starter in gear with the stand up, it WILL jump forward, the switch prevents this. Just another thing to bugger up…
Anyway, mine began to give trouble, so I took it off and joined the wires 10 years ago.
Thanks, had no idea.
-
Thanks, had no idea.
It’s that long since I’ve ridden the bugger, I’m a bit hazy.
I’ll check in 48 hours… :wink:
-
Kaladin.. it looks like the Norge has tested you and found you worthy. :smiley: You may now enjoy it for years..
-
Yes, the clutch microswitch tells the bike that the clutch is pulled in so the starting motor will operate. Otherwise the starting motor won't operate unless you are in neutral.
It is good to know that shorting out the leads will not have any unintended consequences. I'll do that until I can get the new switch installed.
I stalled the bike this morning at a stop thinking I was in neutral and had to hunt around for neutral to get it started again. Embarrassing.
It also triggers something in the ECU to raise rpms a bit when first released.
-
It also triggers something in the ECU to raise rpms a bit when first released.
With the clutch switch removed, but not shorted, the idle speed increases from 1200rpm to
1500 rpm just putting it into first gear.
-
Final report. I love this bike. As I tried to explain to my wife, I don't need two motorcycles, but it is fun. It is fun to have an exotic Italian beauty. It is fun to learn how to tune and repair it. It is fun to look at it. My 360 mile round trip to Moab convinced me that I don't need to raise the handlebars or lower the foot pegs. And that it will go at 100MPH for extended periods, and 123MPH for at least 5 minutes if you can stand the tachometer blinking at you.
The downside? I get 50MPG on the Beemer on a trip, and only got about 31MPG on the trip to Moab. I am not as tempted to go like a bat out of hell on the BMW for some reason I might want to evaluate. I might want to get a higher windscreen.
As I told my friend in Italy, I am learning to smile in Italian.
-
You sound a lot like what I went through after14 HD's. This is my 2nd Norge after 3 BMW's and other assorted brands. I feel as I have finally come home to MG. Mine when purchased had the upgrades I should have installed on the 1st Norge. Makes a huge difference in comfort and handling.
I too have learned to "Smile in Italian" with my Mature Italian Mistress I call her
(https://i.ibb.co/mzKc1Hq/Norge-11-22.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mzKc1Hq)
-
Yes, the clutch microswitch tells the bike that the clutch is pulled in so the starting motor will operate. Otherwise the starting motor won't operate unless you are in neutral.
It is good to know that shorting out the leads will not have any unintended consequences. I'll do that until I can get the new switch installed.
I stalled the bike this morning at a stop thinking I was in neutral and had to hunt around for neutral to get it started again. Embarrassing.
Mine will start in gear with the clutch pulled in or out. So if you stall the bike, just pull the clutch in when you hit the starter.
-
Mine will start in gear with the clutch pulled in or out. So if you stall the bike, just pull the clutch in when you hit the starter.
Mine won't.
Problem is that the microswitch on the clutch is broken. I have bought another and am waiting for an emptier gas tank to tackle it.
-
Mine won't.
Problem is that the microswitch on the clutch is broken. I have bought another and am waiting for an emptier gas tank to tackle it.
Micro switch on the clutch ?
-
Mine won't.
Problem is that the microswitch on the clutch is broken. I have bought another and am waiting for an emptier gas tank to tackle it.
Can’t you siphon it out or just ride it somewhere ?
-
Micro switch on the clutch ?
Misspoke: Microswitch on the clutch lever.
-
Can’t you siphon it out or just ride it somewhere ?
All my gas cans are full, and it's 24F out there :laugh:
I did take it for a ride for a mile Saturday, but it's cold outside.
-
Misspoke: Microswitch on the clutch lever.
Ok makes sense.
But I just cut the switch off and joined the wires.
-
Ok makes sense.
But I just cut the switch off and joined the wires.
I didn't know if there would be unintended consequences to doing this, but if you have been successful it sounds like a good quick fix until I get to the switch swap.
-
I didn't know if there would be unintended consequences to doing this, but if you have been successful it sounds like a good quick fix until I get to the switch swap.
All you’re doing is simulating the closing of the switch. The brain thinks the clutch is permanently pulled in. I did mine in 2010 about 160,000 km back.
No worries.