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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chuck in Indiana on August 15, 2022, 03:50:27 PM
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I changed out the fluid for the front brake on the Aero Lario before the Wisconsin rally. When I put a wrench on the bleeder on the linked brake caliper, it wasn't wanting to move. Thought to my self, "Self.. that sucker will break off and you won't have a bike to ride to the Wisconsin rally." So, I left it and boiled the brakes in Wisconsin twisties. <shrug>
Tackled it today, and sure enough it broke off effortlessly. :smiley: Plugged the hole, and sprayed it with Liquid Wrench. I'll wait 24 hours and drill and eze out it. Hopefully.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/8151547d818b66f7/20220815_163359.jpg)
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Fingers crossed Chuck.
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Bummer. Good luck!
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“it broke off effortlessly…”
Good to know they don’t fight back! :thumb: It’s a welcome feature sometimes…!
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That's the problem with those new fangled hydraulic brake systems!
Shoes and cables! That's how brakes should be!!!
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Thoughts and prayers
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That's some mighty fine lathe work on your " plug" :evil:
Paul B :boozing:
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can I borrow them brake shoes while your not using em ?
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Oh, Man, Chuck. I hate it when that happens!
Rick.
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If you have welding skills weld a washer or small nut to what's left, let cool and Bobs your Uncle. DonG
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:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Thanks for all the extremely helpful comments.. :smiley: :boozing: I was just informed that I have honey dos to do today, so the liquid wrench has another day to work..
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Thanks for all the extremely helpful comments.. :smiley: :boozing: I was just informed that I have honey dos to do today, so the liquid wrench has another day to work..
Good idea. Patience is a virtue and time is an ally at times like these.
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Thanks for all the extremely helpful comments.. :smiley: :boozing:
OK, i'll try (but suspect you may know this already). I sheared off headbolt in a small outboard and had a devil of a time getting the remnants out. Days, months of soaking with PB Blaster and then the homemade special (ATF and acetone) produced zero results as did heat. Moved on to an ez-out. No luck. Some one said try a left hand drill bit and when I inquired as to where, they looked at me dumbstruck and said "how long have you been boating in RI and you don't know about Fuller?" So it was that I learned about WL Fuller who was about 15 minutes from the marina. Turned out the left hand bit didn't work either but using one of their regular drill bits I was able to JUST drill out the remaining stud (using a hand drill cause my shop was so crowded at the time that I couldn't get to the drill press...) and re-tap (using a Fuller tap) the block. Fuller bits (and ez-outs) make regular hardware store/big box bits look they're made of plastic. Best part of the experience, other than fixing the outboard, was when I told the guy at Fuller that I had lived just up the road for more than two decades and never heard of them and he said "we get at least one person a week who comes in and says that".
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I have a special place in my heart for my three cans of Liquid Wrench. You can never have enough of that stuff
:boozing:
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If you have welding skills weld a washer or small nut to what's left, let cool and Bobs your Uncle. DonG
He has the skills. :tongue:
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If you have welding skills weld a washer or small nut to what's left, let cool and Bobs your Uncle. DonG
Didn't get to it today, but I'll save the welding until I break the eze out off.. :evil: :smiley:
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I have a special place in my heart for my three cans of Liquid Wrench. You can never have enough of that stuff
:boozing:
Ya know, Kevin.. I used to be a fan of AeroKroil.. but honestly I haven't seen anything better than Liquid Wrench after I started using it. Cheap, too. (Guzzi content) :smiley:
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At least there’s already a hole in the middle. That’s more than half the battle. You got this.
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I would clock it up in the drill and bore out to the thread tops.
Then collapse the remainder in onto itself, the remains will come out in slivers with judicious use of the correct tap.
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I would clock it up in the drill and bore out to the thread tops.
Then collapse the remainder in onto itself, the remains will come out in slivers with judicious use of the correct tap.
:thumb: After breaking my first easy-out (SO poorly named) inside the $#$% screw, I use the drill, peel and tap method too.
The "easy-out" tools rarely work for me. Probably because my car's stuck bolts here in Ottawa tend to be firmly salt water rust welded. The bolts either come out with some penetrant, time and vibration or need to be drilled out.
Winter driving in the rust belt = poor man's loctite! :laugh:
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I use never seize on about everything that doesn't require lock tight. Including bleeder screws :grin:
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:thumb: After breaking my first easy-out (SO poorly named) inside the $#$% screw, I use the drill, peel and tap method too.
The "easy-out" tools rarely work for me. Probably because my car's stuck bolts here in Ottawa tend to be firmly salt water rust welded. The bolts either come out with some penetrant, time and vibration or need to be drilled out.
Winter driving in the rust belt = poor man's loctite! :laugh:
As someone who grew up in Rochester, NY, I can verify that anyone who owns an automobile in the Rust-caused-by-Salt-Belt should also own an Ox-Acetyline torch with a cutting head..... and a cigarette lighter... :wink:
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No doubt Chuck has this covered. First tool of choice for me would be a left handed twist drill. Center hole already there. I have little luck with easy outs.
Pete
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I used to be a fan of AeroKroil.. but honestly I haven't seen anything better than Liquid Wrench after I started using it. Cheap, too. (Guzzi content) :smiley:
I have a can or two of Aerokroil. It's good stuff for a lot of applications
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Gee Chuck. I'm out of circulation for a couple of days, leave you to your own devices and look what happens! :shocked:
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Wolfgang Haerter - Mr. Laverda told me how to get stuck bleeders out of a caliper, if the bleeder puts up and struggle fit a box end wrench over the bleeder and tap the tip of the bleeder with a brass hammer while gently applying pressure on the wrench, it may take some serious 'taps' but it will break free though you may have to replace the bleeder.
Put an easy out in and with a small vice grip on the easy out tap away with a brass hammer on the top of the easy out, it will eventually turn out.
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I use never seize on about everything that doesn't require lock tight. Including bleeder screws :grin:
Same here. I rarely use lock tite , instead I use Vibratite. I doesn’t hurt plastics is one reason. I use the nickel based antisneeze because it doesn’t show on exhaust parts like the copper will.
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Wolfgang Haerter - Mr. Laverda told me how to get stuck bleeders out of a caliper, if the bleeder puts up and struggle fit a box end wrench over the bleeder and tap the tip of the bleeder with a brass hammer while gently applying pressure on the wrench, it may take some serious 'taps' but it will break free though you may have to replace the bleeder.
Put an easy out in and with a small vice grip on the easy out tap away with a brass hammer on the top of the easy out, it will eventually turn out.
Lots of small taps can often win the day. One of the old time spring loaded center punches can be very useful. Very convenient for applying a few hundred taps in a short period of time. Also easy to make the taps "directional" and "localized."
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I have a can or two of Aerokroil. It's good stuff for a lot of applications
I cast my vote for Deep Creep. Not because of any personal experience of Deep Creep being better than the other popular brands, but due to a comparison I saw on YouTube by a guy who had waaaaaay tooooooo much time on his hands.
PB Blaster v. Deep Creep v. Aerokroil v. Brand X could be the start of a great new series of "Penetrating" Oil Threads or maybe "Penetrating Thread Oils!"
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I use never seize on about everything that doesn't require lock tight. Including bleeder screws :grin:
Good advice, since it also helps seal the thread to make bleeding more effective.
I've recently switched to a hydraulic thread sealant sold thru McMaster-Carr. Or sometime teflon tape.
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I haven't watched it but here is a comparison of penetrating fluids. This guy does a lot of these types of comparisons.
kk
https://youtu.be/xUEob2oAKVs
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One of my favorites, seems to work best in some situations:
https://www.crcindustries.com/products/freeze-off-174-super-penetrant-11-5-wt-oz.html
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Hurry up Chuck . we're slip sliding into an olio thread :popcorn:
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That's the problem with those new fangled hydraulic brake systems!
Shoes and cables! That's how brakes should be!!!
You saying Shoes and cables reminded me of my elder brother changing brake shoes on 1982 Suzuki 100 ( two stroke ), with me helping/hanging around.
This must have been about 30 years ago..around 1986..
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Hurry up Chuck . we're slip sliding into an olio thread :popcorn:
OK.
Let me preface this with I've done this job before without issue..
"They said it couldn't be done, so I tackled it with a grin."
I couldn't do it, either. :smiley:
Got my stuff ready..
My left hand drills and eze out set, and my for all practical purposes indestructible Snap On stud removers.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/b0c90fa2eadc6310/20220817_103632.jpg)
Indicated it in the mill, drilled with the left hand drill..nada. Put the eze out in my little tap wrench, tapped it in with my copper hammer, and gave it a go. "Uh oh..I'm right at breaking this eze out torque, and it's not budging."
Put my Snap on remover in there, and tapped with my copper hammer while keeping pressure on it.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/96508d9e5fdb35bd/20220817_134909.jpg)
All that succeeded in doing was cutting through what was left of the bleeder valve. :shocked: :rolleyes:
Ok, this is getting serious. :smiley:
Went back to the house, looked on the net for a new one. Obsolete. Saw a guy on ebay that had a pair of "like new" ones with 100% satisfaction and hit the buy it now button. :smiley:
Back to the shop, indicated it back up as best I could after the eze outs ate out my hole, and drilled a tap drill for M6 threads. Tried to pick out what was left, and apparently this bleeder valve had decided to become one with the caliper. :grin: :boozing:
Tapped it M6, but don't have good threads at the top, of course.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/a4b22ec03286f4f7/20220817_141543(1).jpg)
I'll throw it into my "good junk" pile, and wait for the "like new" ones to arrive in the mail.
Dorcia was right. Getting down to one motorcycle and a sort of rare one at that wasn't a good idea. "What are you going to ride if you have to find an unavailable part? Go buy a new one."
Great idea, Sweetie.
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A noble go at it , sometimes the die is just cast I guess. Don't know if if they come in smaller sizes but I love me these npt repair rigs.
(https://i.ibb.co/CK2L4Lc/IMG-0792.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CK2L4Lc)
Maybe you could tap the bleeder hole for the flare fitting and tap the flare fitting hole for the bleeder repair kit?
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Well that’s sad…
I’d have loved to have had a go at that. :sad:
Why not give it to Canuck 750 and I’ll get it from him at Mandello ?
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Lots of different opinions, who would have thought?
What I take from this is, it’s a crap shoot. If you **** it up, maybe you can in **** it, maybe lube will work, but don’t hold your breath.
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Lots of different opinions, who would have thought?
What I take from this is, it’s a crap shoot. If you f*** it up, maybe you can in f@“k it, maybe lube will work, but don’t hold your breath.
I think the correct term is “un” not “in”.
It’s not a crap shoot Chad, it’s an application of years of experience, intuition, intelligence and as much luck as is floating around..(which you may or may not draw from..)
Funny thing is, the more you shut up and listen, the luckier (or smarter) you get.
It’s mildly demeaning to think you can allocate a measure of luck, to the success of a master machinist.
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Just a thought............ ..........https://www.toolsource.com/bleeders-c-1321_79_81/18-inch-npt-disc-brake-bleeder-screw-repair-kit-p-54436.html (https://www.toolsource.com/bleeders-c-1321_79_81/18-inch-npt-disc-brake-bleeder-screw-repair-kit-p-54436.html)
Paul B :boozing:
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We had a cat that came in handy for problems like this.She seemed to know when I was about to take a bigger hammer to the offending part and would rub up against me purring until I walked away.Living to fight another day.
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I had a similar problem with an F08 Brembo with dual 6mm bleeders on my 850T. After one bleeder broke off and I failed to get it out by drilling and using two different styles of EZ outs, I gave up and bought a newer style single 8 mm bleeder F08 from MG Cycle.
When Maynard heard me tell my story of failure, he informed me that he had carefully drilled these out. tapped, and installed an 8mm bleeder in place of the original 6mm. Would you have enough material on this caliper to try and make that modification as a last alternative should the threads on your current attempt be inadequate?
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I had a similar problem with an F08 Brembo with dual 6mm bleeders on my 850T. After one bleeder broke off and I failed to get it out by drilling and using two different styles of EZ outs, I gave up and bought a newer style single 8 mm bleeder F08 from MG Cycle.
When Maynard heard me tell my story of failure, he informed me that he had carefully drilled these out. tapped, and installed an 8mm bleeder in place of the original 6mm. Would you have enough material on this caliper to try and make that modification as a last alternative should the threads on your current attempt be inadequate?
Looks like there’s a fair bit of meat there.
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Just a thought............ ..........https://www.toolsource.com/bleeders-c-1321_79_81/18-inch-npt-disc-brake-bleeder-screw-repair-kit-p-54436.html (https://www.toolsource.com/bleeders-c-1321_79_81/18-inch-npt-disc-brake-bleeder-screw-repair-kit-p-54436.html)
Paul B :boozing:
Perfect. :thumb:
As I said, I threw this one on the "good junk" pile. It *can* be repaired.. but.. the AeroLario is my "wind up" bike, and any time I see something obsolete that I think I might need.. I get it. I have many Lario only spares from a search on Ebay that emails me when Lario stuff pops up. It used to do that regularly, but now it seldom does..
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Might wanna throw some anti seize on the threads of the “new” ones. Or better yet, stainless Speed Bleeders?
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Might wanna throw some anti seize on the threads of the “new” ones. Or better yet, stainless Speed Bleeders?
Ya think? :grin: This stuff is all my fault, of course. I haven't changed out the brake fluid since boiling them on the 555 at the Ohio rally 3 or 4 years ago. Roadkyll had some brake fluid with him, and we bled them, but there was no doubt still water in the system. I just sort of forgot about it..
At any rate, we've probably added to the knowledge base of WG a little bit.
Edit:
It just dawned on me to change the title to make it easier to find in a search.
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Closure to this thread (sort of) :smiley: Got some speed bleeders, and the retapped treads are good enough. Squirted fresh Dot4 into the system, and got some pedal. Hung my "bleeder's helper" on the lever overnight, and have a good pedal, now.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/84fd4cad78f34eed/20220828_102032.jpg)
However.. I must be doing *something* wrong. Decided to put new seals and pads in the like new set of F05s I snatched off ebay, and ran into an issue. The instructions say to soak the square ring and dust seal in brake fluid, install both, lube the piston, and push it straight in. I had to get a 2X4 and put all my considerable weight on it to get it to go in.
Started on the second one and saw this..
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/e4c40195b098e6c5/20220828_092455.jpg)
You can see where the dust seal is cut. Thought, "Uh oh" :smiley: again and used compressed air to blow out the first one.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/328f95aeba73563d/20220828_092319.jpg)
Now, it may have torn it more flyin out of there :evil: but it was torn, too.
What am I doing wrong? Following the instructions? Should I have fit the dust seal on the piston before installing it? As I'm mentioned before, I'm *not* a Guzzi mechanic, but this shouldn't be that hard..
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I have never found brake fluid to be a very good lube for installing dust seals that are trapped between the caliper and piston. Ther are many brake lubes that can be used in contact with brake fluid. Dow Corning makes a silicone paste I have used with success, I have also used Sil-Glyde from American Grease Stick. Do not under any circumstance use Ru-Glyde another AGS product. Silicone sprays can also be used. Using any of these methods one may beconcerned about contamination of the fluid system, rinsing the fluid chamber with brake fluid should allay any fears. I have rebuilt 1000s of automotive calipers using these methods and never had a problem. The brake companies I've dealt with over the years have provided a lube capsule with rebuild kits, maybe your local Napa store could provide some of those. As always, YMMV!!!!
Brian
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I use the PBR brake grease. Compatible with brake fluid and a good lube.
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Brake fluid is a poor assembly lube. I wouldn't worry about using it though. Most Brembo callipers don't even use dust seals.
Phil
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Brake fluid is a poor assembly lube. I wouldn't worry about using it though. Most Brembo callipers don't even use dust seals.
Phil
Thanks, Phil. It's probably my misconception that the dust seal was involved in retracting the piston when pressure is relieved? Old wife's tale? :smiley:
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Thanks, Phil. It's probably my misconception that the dust seal was involved in retracting the piston when pressure is relieved? Old wife's tale? :smiley:
Not sure that enough tension is in the dust seal to do that Chuck. :undecided:
I always thought that the disk just pushed the piston out of the way as soon as the lever was released.
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Thanks, Phil. It's probably my misconception that the dust seal was involved in retracting the piston when pressure is relieved? Old wife's tale? :smiley:
No Chuck that's the job of the main seals. I've got two different Brembo callipers on my bench at the moment and neither have dust seals nor do the ones on the V11.
Phil
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My training and experience tell me that distortion of the square cut piston seal on brake application, as the piston moves outward from the bore, is what retracts the piston. The dust boot is just that. Sometimes with cast iron calipers on cars that had dust seals that installed in a groove in the piston bore of the caliper, so much corrosion collected in the groove that the dust boot would get cut and or the piston would sieze on the distorted dust boot. I much preferred the dust boots that were installed in a register out side of and larger than the piston bore. Like so.
https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/brake-piston-seal.html
Brian
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Ok, thanks, gentlemen. :thumb: Gotta love WG.