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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Scout63 on September 04, 2022, 10:10:35 AM
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I like the Norton Commando gearbox the best among my bikes. Slick, positive and down for up. Also polished aluminum and separate doesn’t hurt the cause for looks. Next is probably the SR500, which is just so competent. Worst is the /5. The big block Guzzi box isn’t too bad but for the 2-3 change. If I spent more (read any) time shimming when assembling then it would be better. The heel/toe shifter helps with deliberate shifting and theoretically keeps my boots cleaner. Since all of my bikes are old with heavy flywheels, quick shifting isn’t really necessary. Any thoughts? Are the patterns reversed down under Peter?
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Convert! :laugh:
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I need to rebuild the Norton box, evidently there is a Brazilian? made bearing in the back of the box that will go south and lock up the rear tire. I'm currently rebuilding the box on my CX and discovered (thanks to PR) a broken spring. Now I have to find a spring and make a tool to compress the spring for removal and installation. Glad I opened the box as it would have made an ugly mess.
(https://i.ibb.co/9NnFhB1/5-PFi-JQ23-RECagei4-Fcr-E1-A.jpg)
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I need to rebuild the Norton box, evidently there is a Brazilian? made bearing in the back of the box that will go south and lock up the rear tire. I'm currently rebuilding the box on my CX and discovered (thanks to PR) a broken spring. Now I have to find a spring and make a tool to compress the spring for removal and installation. Glad I opened the box as it would have made an ugly mess.
(https://i.ibb.co/9NnFhB1/5-PFi-JQ23-RECagei4-Fcr-E1-A.jpg)
I have several of those springs. Can replace it for you, if you'd like.
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Isn't the black mark on the top of your left boot a status symbol? :evil:
kk
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The worst by far is the 6 speed in the B1000 Breva. First gear is so damn high you can't idle in parades or go thru some Southern towns without braking and riding the clutch. Even makes it rough to start off on a steep incline. The 6th speed is OK if you are running the Autoban or the toll roads in Austin, TX where 85 is sloooow. The heel/toe shifter is nice to have when you are wearing your best pair of size 15 snake skin cow pasture pumps that you want to keep looking good.
The 4 speed tranny had the shifting spring on the outside and I never had one break. The 5 speed had the spring on the inside of the box and it was costly and time consuming (for me) to replace.
Tex
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The 4 speed tranny had the shifting spring on the outside and I never had one break. The 5 speed had the spring on the inside of the box and it was costly and time consuming (for me) to replace.
Tex
:thumb:
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Sweetest shifting I've ridden was Son-in-law's Yamaha YZF 600.
Of course you never had to go past second to break any speed limit in Massachusetts.
All the other gears were just there for fun.
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I don't really notice a gearbox unless it's just terrible. And I must say the BMW750/6 tranny is probably the worst I have ever experienced. I would place my V7 in the "average" category, works just fine unless you are too quick to down-shift, or hesitant with a shift...
Best box ?? IDK been on a lot of bikes that must have had good units, as i never even noticed them at all.
I did like the old BSA441 unit, but that's just because you could flip the cam plate over and make it closer to "normal" even though its still on the wrong side...
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I like the Norton Commando gearbox the best among my bikes. Slick, positive and down for up. Also polished aluminum and separate doesn’t hurt the cause for looks. Next is probably the SR500, which is just so competent. Worst is the /5. The big block Guzzi box isn’t too bad but for the 2-3 change. If I spent more (read any) time shimming when assembling then it would be better. The heel/toe shifter helps with deliberate shifting and theoretically keeps my boots cleaner. Since all of my bikes are old with heavy flywheels, quick shifting isn’t really necessary. Any thoughts? Are the patterns reversed down under Peter?
Completely agree with the Norton gearbox being the best. I rode a '71 Fastback once, and to this day nothing else compares for precision and functionality. As far as the worst, it is the one on my 1974 CZ 175, not so much for the gear shifting itself, but mostly because of the excessive lever travel; that lever not only shifts gears, but also acts as the kickstart lever, and it also has an internal cam that operates the clutch, unique features that no other brand had.
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I also only don’t pay attention to the gearbox unless its bad. I have ridden BMW /6’s. Most TV commercials would be over before the next gear engages. Second worst was my EV. No so much because it didn’t like to go into gear but funky heel toe shifter.
Almost always just did the dance with my toe but no way to just go snick, snick, snick. Just had to work in slow motion. Made track days interesting between shifting and the foot brake.
Pete
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As far as the best, I must concur with Charlie. The Convert. It just "works" perfectly with the Guzzis torque curve.
The Worst, thats an easy one... A Ural. Even after you learn its idiosyncrasies, sometimes, no matter what you do, you get a rough," graunchy" upshift. Downshifts are fine.
A Griso gearbox is a close second to the vert, it is very good ,as far as shift smoothness.
Rick.
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As far as the best, I must concur with Charlie. The Convert. It just "works" perfectly with the Guzzis torque curve.
The Worst, thats an easy one... A Ural. Even after you learn its idiosyncrasies, sometimes, no matter what you do, you get a rough," graunchy" upshift. Downshifts are fine.
A Griso gearbox is a close second to the vert, it is very good ,as far as shift smoothness.
Rick.
I concur with the Ural as the worst, at least amount the bikes I've tried.
Best, hard to say, pretty much every bike I've ridden that was made after 1980 seemed to have an excellent gearbox.
A friend did say the hydraulic clutch on the KTM 690 was the best clutch he "ever felt."
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My Ural has 90,000 KM on a 2007 Herzog gear transmission. I can easily upshift without a grind by double clutching at each intermediate neutral. So the box isn't so bad. Just have to be broken in and handled in a bit of a different way.
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If you have a little time to kill go to yo utube and check out two stick 5 and 4 trans. I drove a Mack with the two stick gear box 50 some years ago. I think it had a 235 motor and operating range was 1850 to 2100 rpm. Get below 1850 and you was getting a lower gear. Going up a steep hill was hard to keep down shifting fast enough. Fun, I think.
Tex
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I would think my 765 Moto2 with the up, and down quick shifter.. :evil:I really do like my 2016 Stornello for a shaft drive unit..Just works as it should..
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The Kawasaki KLX 250 / 300 gearbox is the best I experienced for smooth quiet shifting.
I've had gearboxes that were clunky, but none with false neutrals or failures.
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I don't think the /5 was so bad, just took a certain technique. The /6 was similar but a bit better, had to do with flywheel weight. My /2 was awful, the flywheel could probably have been used as a boat anchor. My Harley 110" wasn't too great either. My V7lll is pretty good once I figured out what it likes. Contrary to what some riders say my Bonneville shifts quite well. Of course it should be said some BMW and most Guzzi gear boxes have to operate at crankshaft speeds which puts them at a major disadvantage.
kk
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My /2 (R69S) was awful- crunchy, clunky, never smooth no matter what I did. it was always like that. I did all kinds of adjustment to improve operation, but it was still awful compared to other bikes including my shovelhead.
When I was selling it, one /2 collector rode it and came back shaking his head. Figured he was no longer interested as he kept saying “Man, that transmission, I just can’t believe that transmission” with this serious look on his face. Then he said “That’s the best shifting /2 I have ever ridden. Not kidding. What did you do to get it to shift that well?”….. So I decided it that was as good as it gets, selling the bike was probably the right choice for me.
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I had forgotten about the Rickman 750 Enfield I rode or tried to. Not sure it had any gears, just a box full of neutrals. I only rode it about a half mile so never learned the trick.
Pete
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My Ural has 90,000 KM on a 2007 Herzog gear transmission. I can easily upshift without a grind by double clutching at each intermediate neutral. So the box isn't so bad. Just have to be broken in and handled in a bit of a different way.
I guess, a person can learn to do that, and I admit it can be fun, and challenging, for gearhead types but for the average person, the Ural box ,even with herzog gears,( which I believe my 2012 gear up has) can be a real frustrating thing to use . The ergonomics of the ural heel toe shifter, which is actually a toe/ toe shifter, because I can only upshift it by pressing down on the heel area with my toe, with foot turned in at a weird angle, also is pretty crude and bizzare.
Piloting a Ural is alot of "work"in itself. The wonky gearbox, is the gift that keeps on giving! :azn:
Rick.
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I guess, a person can learn to do that, and I admit it can be fun, and challenging, for gearhead types but for the average person, the Ural box ,even with herzog gears,( which I believe my 2012 gear up has) can be a real frustrating thing to use . The ergonomics of the ural heel toe shifter, which is actually a toe/ toe shifter, because I can only upshift it by pressing down on the heel area with my toe, with foot turned in at a weird angle, also is pretty crude and bizzare.
Piloting a Ural is alot of "work"in itself. The wonky gearbox, is the gift that keeps on giving! :azn:
Rick.
I learned the odd foot angle so I could "ease" it through the gears (or maybe I'm naturally pigeon toed?).
My rig has the 1966 true differential so piloting it isn't much different then a quad.
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DR650 gets my vote for worst due to the random 3rd gear explosions.
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One more for the Norton gearbox for me, both from how it shifts and ease of access. I don''t think left shifting was a step forward for the Commando as it made it somewhat vague compared to the early arrangement imo. As per the layshaft bearing in question ( the one that locks up the rear wheel), access to ascertain is easy . The bad layshaft bearing was Portuguese sourced. The good one is a German Superblend SKF. I would also give thumbs up to the T100/120/140 gearbox. Decent shifting and user friendly for the home mechanic.
As for my Guzzis, I do have a wear hole on my left boot from 2/3 shifting on one of my Tontis (that was before shimming the shift drum and installing a RAM clutch). The others, Heel and toe works on the Cali and the SPNT must have had the best assembly at the factory as it is the best shifting Tonti I have owned so far
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We have a BMW R100S and by far the worst tranny I’ve ever shifted. The Norge other than an overly tall first gear was the best
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The best shifting motorcycle transmission I've had among quite a few motorcycles was, hands-down, my 2002 Moto Guzzi V11 Scura. I had removed the shifter door and replaced the spring that breaks (one among many issues with these bikes) and I adjusted the mechanism as per the manual. Refilled with a synthetic oil. It was the easiest and smoothest shifting transmission I've ever experienced, before or since. The recent H-D Pan America that I rode had a nice tranny too. As someone else has said, the BMW /5 was about the worst. BMW's are known for clunky transmissions. Even my late model water-cooled GS clunks and crackles when shifting. If rough-shifting transmissions can be tagged to any particular brand, I hate to say it but, BMW would get the unequivocal vote from my experience.
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The best was the VII Sport, it was a pleasure to row up and down the gears on that.
The worst is the 72 Eldorado, on any given day you don't know if its a 2 or 5 speed, somedays its roving its head off to cover any ground then on others you find 3 extra gears to slip it into.
It seems to need a jab to select anything above 2nd like you are throwing it through reach the higher ratios
It may be just a matter of setting the pawl adjuster, one of these days I will get around to it. LOL
I agree with others, the V7 is about the middle of the road.
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I don't know about the "best", but 2 that I remember as being surprisingly good were my RD350 Yamaha and my old 750 Virago. A lot of the goodness of shifting comes from the clutch operation.
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The trans on my V7lll has been pretty good. However I have been working on technique. I have just over 4,000 miles on the bike. I have found that just barely pulling the clutch lever and a light touch on the shifter it will change gears seamlessly. Downshifts aren't as good but I am still working on that.
kk
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The 97 BMW R1100RS I had made my Guzzi's seem silky smooth that was the worse the best was the 72 Kawasaki F7 175 it was so smooth I couldn't even feel it go into gear. My 650 VStrom is pretty good to.