Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: reidy on September 16, 2022, 01:41:44 AM
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Hello all
I am thinking about getting another bike. I have a question that I suspect has no clear answer but you don't know if you don't ask a lot of smart people. Therefore I am asking here.
I want a small bike that accelerates or more importantly feels like it accelerates to 100 km/h quickly and also feels fast at sub 100 km/h speeds.
I don't care about quarter mile times or top speed. The cheaper the better, read I don't want new or collectable. I also don't care what the stopwatch says. Some bikes feel fast and some fast bikes feel slow.
I am after something fun at legal speeds that gives me a rush. There is probably a forgotten gem of a bike out there that meets the requirement.
Please share your ideas on how to achieve this.
Thanks Steve
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Buell.
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V50, or a Zero.
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Buell fits the description. I would suggest a Norton. Feel at 75 mph is like a modern bike at 125.
Pete
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I know several people who have fast bikes but also have 400cc Ninja's. They just love their little Kawasaki's.
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XR 650 R
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Buell is a good candidate unless you are tall. I'm 6'2" and I've ridden a Buell. I felt (and looked) like praying mantis trying to ride a termite! To me they are pocket bikes, toy-sized. If you're 5-6 or so, things would be different.
Also be careful with some of the Buells as they had teething issues for a while. If you are barking up that tree, I would suggest the Harley Davidson XR1200X. The engine is different from a Buell but still similar. The H-D has an oil-cooled exhaust valve pocket and other improvements. The XR is a larger bike but when you read the period reviews, even from Buell riders, the XR gets high marks for handling. I have one and enjoy it. It handles quickly and accelerates strongly. My XR1200 won't outrun modern sportbikes but, with a good rider, it won't be far behind and maybe even dust one off on occasion. Stick with the XR1200 X models made in the final 2 years- 2011 & 2012 (fully adjustable front and rear suspension, floating discs) .
Other "fast" bikes are out there - Ducati, BMW etc. I've always been drawn to the low-end torque of a twin or single and that narrows the field. This is a Guzzi site and I honestly must say that the late-model Griso 1200SE ain't no slouch in the speed category. It's a rather large bike and, although similar in weight to the XR1200, is not as nimble as the H-D.
If you want something unique, the Husqvarna Vitpilen or Svartpilen singles are in a league by themselves for light weight, speed and handling. They will blow your mind.
You should try to test ride anything that interests you.
.
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Buell is a good candidate unless you are tall. I'm 6'2" and I've ridden a Buell. I felt (and looked) like praying mantis trying to tide a termite! To me they are pocket bikes, toy-sized. If you're 5-6 or so, things would be different.
Also be careful with some of the Buells as they had teething issues for a while. If you are barking up that tree, I would suggest the Harley Davidson XR1200X. The engine is different from a Buell but still similar. The H-D has an oil-cooled exhaust valve pocket and other improvements. The XR is a larger bike but when you read the period reviews even from Buell riders, the XR gets high marks for handling. I have one and enjoy it. It handles quickly and accelerates strongly. My XR1200 won't outrun modern sportbikes but, with a good rider, it won't be far behind and maybe even dust one off on occasion. Stick with the XR1200 X models made in the final 2 years- 2011 & 2012 (fully adjustable front and rear suspension, floating discs) .
Other "fast" bikes are out there - Ducati, BMW etc. I've always been drawn to the low-end torque of a twin or single and that narrows the field. This is a Guzzi site and I honestly must say that the late-model Griso 1200SE ain't no slouch in the speed category. It's a rather large bike and, although similar in weight to the XR1200, is not as nimble as the H-D.
If you want something unique, the Husqvarna Vitpilen or Svartpilen singles are in a league by themselves for light weight, speed and handling. They will blow your mind.
You should try to test ride anything that interest you.
.
Great answer - I don't think I can add anything to that.
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Hello all
I am thinking about getting another bike. I have a question that I suspect has no clear answer but you don't know if you don't ask a lot of smart people. Therefore I am asking here.
I want a small bike that accelerates or more importantly feels like it accelerates to 100 km/h quickly and also feels fast at sub 100 km/h speeds.
I don't care about quarter mile times or top speed. The cheaper the better, read I don't want new or collectable. I also don't care what the stopwatch says. Some bikes feel fast and some fast bikes feel slow.
I am after something fun at legal speeds that gives me a rush. There is probably a forgotten gem of a bike out there that meets the requirement.
Please share your ideas on how to achieve this.
Thanks Steve
I might be showing how naive I am, but you just described my 2007 Norge.
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Hello all
I am thinking about getting another bike. I have a question that I suspect has no clear answer but you don't know if you don't ask a lot of smart people. Therefore I am asking here.
I want a small bike that accelerates or more importantly feels like it accelerates to 100 km/h quickly and also feels fast at sub 100 km/h speeds.
I don't care about quarter mile times or top speed. The cheaper the better, read I don't want new or collectable. I also don't care what the stopwatch says. Some bikes feel fast and some fast bikes feel slow.
I am after something fun at legal speeds that gives me a rush. There is probably a forgotten gem of a bike out there that meets the requirement.
Please share your ideas on how to achieve this.
Thanks Steve
I recommend a Kawasaki 250 Ninja. I've never had more fun at sub 100 km per hour speeds. That's 60 mph, approximately. When a prospective buyer showed up, I took him on a full-out, white-knuckles race around the neighborhood. On returning to the house, he was pale with fear, and immediately bought the bike!
Alternatively, if you want real acceleration at low speed, how about an electric bike?
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A V7III checks all the boxes :thumb:
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I might be showing how naive I am, but you just described my 2007 Norge.
he said as all bike.
Ducati Hypermotard! Or Hyperstrada
Feels small, under 400# dry , did you say FAST? Yep..
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QFpmgqK/0/M/i-QFpmgqK-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Ducati/i-QFpmgqK/A)
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Sounds like you want something light and under 50hp. They feel fast and can be a hoot to ride. BMW 310R is lots of fun and quicker than you think. Kawasaki Ninja 400 and KTM 390 both go like stink and take some keeping up with on twisty roads.
There are plenty more out there, ride them all and most of all have fun.
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L or M model GSXR 750
(https://i.ibb.co/HgLx1zF/A7454-F91-E273-4-D88-B3-DC-E34-B5248-EB31.png) (https://ibb.co/HgLx1zF)
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SRX600 :grin: :grin: :grin:
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if the ktm390 is available in your country, it is sophisticated, light weight and real quick.
i don't know what weight you are thinking, but any of the Japanese multis feel very fast, yamaha triple or 4 cyl comes to mind.
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I'd look for a Japanese 600. I'd love to get my hands on a CBR F2, F3, etc or a 600 ninja, fzr/yzf etc
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I remember what seems like forever ago but Roper was pretty big fan of the Aprilia Mana.
-AJ
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One of the newer Yamaha triples, would be my recomendation. Very nice bikes, with a crossplane crankshaft engine.
Rick.
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One of the newer Yamaha triples, would be my recomendation. Very nice bikes, with a crossplane crankshaft engine.
Rick.
How is a "cross plane" achieved on a triple??? Note~ this is a serious question as I have heard the same before regarding the Yamaha.
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DRZ 400 Super Moto will be quick to 100 km/hr and will feel fast at 100 km/hr.
Some of the bikes above are really fast to 100 km/hr, but will feel slow at 100 km/hr.
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Any Kymco 125, 150, 300 scooters would work. Honda PCX 150. Vespa 150 or 300. All with the exception 125 engines will be quick off the line and top off at 60mph easily. Great for zipping around town to do errands. Just watch out for motorists that think you're on a moped. Cheap too.
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(https://i.ibb.co/dD5Q9n5/F9342476-1-DF5-46-F2-8-C2-B-F609354-D0-D5-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dD5Q9n5)
MZ Skorpion. I let a fellow ride mine. Within 3 weeks, he had driven to North Carolina to buy one. Yamaha 660cc 5 valve single. Very reliable. Harris designed frame— you will never find a bike that handles better. Cheap— you will not pay over $4,000 (and that’s pricey). Almost always have enthusiast owners. High quality machine and a total grin machine.
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Fellas, the OP wants a bike that feels fast under 60 miles an hour. There are a great many choices.
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Old Crossplane article, Cycle world.
https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/yamaha-three-cylinder-crossplane-engine-stop-watch/
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(https://i.ibb.co/dD5Q9n5/F9342476-1-DF5-46-F2-8-C2-B-F609354-D0-D5-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dD5Q9n5)
MZ Skorpion. I let a fellow ride mine. Within 3 weeks, he had driven to North Carolina to buy one. Yamaha 660cc 5 valve single. Very reliable. Harris designed frame— you will never find a bike that handles better. Cheap— you will not pay over $4,000 (and that’s pricey). Almost always have enthusiast owners. High quality machine and a total grin machine.
Glad somebody likes them, but it ain't me. Couldn't get rid of mine fast enough. Sure, handles good, but uncomfortable (for me), vibrates more than I like. Not all that fast in feel or actual speed. <shrug>. The frame design is credited to Seymour Powell in everything I've read.
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Thanks for all of the suggestions, there are a lot of bikes that I would love to have in the garage in the list.
The electric bike is an interesting idea that I had not looked at.
I have ridden a Buell years ago. It did feel fast but I may not have worded my question correctly.
I am after small cheap fun. The XR series dirt bikes may fit the bill if I can find one at the right price.
To add to my question, I live in Australia and our local rule enforcers, or more importantly policy makers have an idea that speed is the biggest killer and if you are a couple of k's over the limit you are a danger and must be stopped. Bikes like Huzo's suggestion of GSX 750 get to 100 very quickly and are just getting into second gear. I know I can back the throttle off but that takes a lot of self control. I would like to lesson the temptation.
A Norton may fit the bill on some accounts but unfortunately everyone else must think the same looking at prices.
Has anyone had any experience with something like an early 80's Honda CB400 twin. I have been told of a cheap one in running condition. Do they handle and can what are they like off the mark especially with a sprocket change. If they are a candidate I can grab a couple before the collectors get on board and keep it as a Fun bike.
Steve
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How about a Royal Enfield Scram 411? Probably same price new as a used bike. Don't even know if it's out yet but looks.cool.
-AJ
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A KLR 650 feels fast at 60mph....especially with the stock windshield. It feel likes you're getting your head ripped off. The noise is deafening. With stock tire pressure 15 and 19, you'll be all over the road. The vibration through the bars make it feel like the engine is disassembling itself.
It feels a lot like a really rusted out old Jeep. My old Cherokee felt like it was doing 200mph at 65.
My Versys 1000 feels like it's going 45mph at an indicated 90mph. If you "don't care about the numbers" and are simply seeking the perception of speed, avoid these. Get a KLR.
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The Aprilia Tuono, 03 to 2011 V twin. About 400lbs, Rotex motor is a peach!
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I would vote for an Iron head sportster. Many bargains available, I never should have sold mine. It was like riding a solid piece of iron and the low down torque was intoxicating. They will always be worth the purchase price even if it's for the parts. You have pretty much re enforced the old adage, " its more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow" Good luck on you quest :thumb:
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I’ve been reading this thread & also thinking about an old sportster like my 84 iron head sportster. I’m more partial to older solid mount bikes. Mine is not special (like the gorgeous 64 900 that Dave is building), just a great running plain bike with a new S&S carb, drag pipes and an 18” rear wheel to slim it up. Can’t wait to cafe it after I get done with my Corsa Record.
No need to drink the HD koolaid or go all leather & tattoos- just twist the throttle and have a blast. They’re cheap fun and with drag pipes, you’ll never hear the old men snapping their suspenders as they complain when you ride by…….
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I would vote for an Iron head sportster. Many bargains available, I never should have sold mine. It was like riding a solid piece of iron and the low down torque was intoxicating. They will always be worth the purchase price even if it's for the parts. You have pretty much re enforced the old adage, " its more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow" Good luck on you quest :thumb:
Torque is what makes any vehicle fun to drive. Maybe a 500 cc Harley single… but a Sporty is fun alright
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I tell you I used to LOVE my old 77 RD400! Nothing was more fun at 55mph back mountain roads!!!
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Interesting to see how quickly this thread morphed from "fast bike" to "bike that feels fast."
"Fast" like most other adjectives is truly subjective.
On a lot of back roads, the difference between 30 horsepower and 130 horsepower doesn't really amount to much difference in travel speed.
Back in the day, a lack of brakes could make a bike feel even faster than lots of horsepower......
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The OP stipulated he was after a small bike that feels fast at 100kmh (62 ish mph) and he wasn't interested in outright power...
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Many moons back I bought a KH250 triple, clip-ons and rear-sets. Felt like 1oo kph standing still. Scary under breaking and terrifying when you saw a corner. It was probably the most grins for the buck I ever spent. Just what the OP needs.
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Old Crossplane article, Cycle world.
https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/yamaha-three-cylinder-crossplane-engine-stop-watch/
[/quoteThanks, had not read the article before; that said, it appears that adding balance shafts to a standard triple 120 crank makes it a "cross-plane". Sounds like the marketers wrote that!!!
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A pre 80s Triumph 650 "feels" fast. And they were , for the day. A small bike that feels fast? Yamaha Radian. 600cc bike that Yamaha built from parts bins from other bikes. Low. Cheap. Fast. Reliable. Good handling. (http://motorcyclehowto.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/yamaha-radian.jpg)
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Has anyone had any experience with something like an early 80's Honda CB400 twin.
Steve
My first street bike was a '74? Kawasaki KZ400 twin, which I think would be quite comparable to the CB400. At the time I loved it, at this stage, I think I would find it boring AF, jmho.
I noticed quite a few people, recommending different 4 stroke big singles; after owning a Yamaha XT500 & SR500 and now a Suzuki DR650, I agree with them, that fits your goals quite well.
My DR650 is set up with 80/20 road biased tires Shinko 705?, Kerker exhaust muffler, FCR39 double accelerator pumper? carb and most importantly, front sprocket dropped 1 tooth less than stock. It's an urban assault weapon and a rip snorter on tight twisty back roads. Every time I twist the throttle, guaranteed smile generator, it feels like a real hooligan bike winding it out working up through the gears,,, but it does tend to run out of gears & breath up around 110-120 kmh, which you've described exactly on your wish list.
fyi fwiw
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I wouldn't call it super fast but I like it.
(https://g3.img-dpreview.com/337B42571F9A4817943D4254A76FA115.jpg)
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The only cross plane motors I saw working at the Yamaha dealership were the 1000cc in line 4's on the R-1, R1M models .
Neither could be called little and both were truly blindingly fast , tunnel vision part way through 3rd gear . This is probably as
far from what he's looking for as you could imagine and they are not cheap ! Peter
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Thanks everybody for all the responses. Every one of them has been useful. Some have confirmed what I don't want whilst others have assisted in my thought process. I am not sure what I will end up with, but a common theme and a direct statement has made it clear in my mind that bottom end torque is what I am after. I will wait and see what the universe offers me now I have a clearer picture of what I am looking for. Yes a Guzzi could fit this description but it appears that a lot of people have discovered Guzzi of late and are happy to open there wallets more than I want to.
Steve
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I noticed quite a few people, recommending different 4 stroke big singles; after owning a Yamaha XT500 & SR500 and now a Suzuki DR650, I agree with them, that fits your goals quite well.
My DR650 is set up with 80/20 road biased tires Shinko 705?, Kerker exhaust muffler, FCR39 double accelerator pumper? carb and most importantly, front sprocket dropped 1 tooth less than stock. It's an urban assault weapon and a rip snorter on tight twisty back roads. Every time I twist the throttle, guaranteed smile generator, it feels like a real hooligan bike winding it out working up through the gears,,, but it does tend to run out of gears & breath up around 110-120 kmh, which you've described exactly on your wish list.
fyi fwiw
Yep! The first keys I usually grab are to my 1999 DR650 with 790cc kit, TM40 carb, GSXR muffler and Avon Distanza tires. I erased some of the low end torque of the 650 with a 2 tooth larger countershaft sprocket. But..... the 790 kit boosted torque from 27 ft-lbs at 3000 rpm to 40 ft-lbs. IIRC, the TrailTech tach reads about 4000 rpm at 65 mph. Great bike for the twisty local roads or even cruising at 80 mph.
As I get older, "fast" gets increasingly slower....... and much less desirable than "versatile," "comfortable," and "light weight."
It's almost like the Laws of Physics are different than they were 40 years ago........ weird...... :blank:
The DR650 really is a good nucleus for almost any kind of bike one would want. Just a matter of making the mods you desire.
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In the car world they like to say "Miata Is Always the Answer." A motorcycle equivalent is the Suzuki SV650. Inexpensive, light, extremely sweet V-twin motor, quick but not stupid fast; easy to find for sale.
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Thinking about I'll retract my Buell recommendation and switch to my KLX250S with a 351 big bore kit. Light ,quick and with a set of 606's on you really don't want to go much faster then 65.
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I really believe you'd enjoy the Husqvarna Svartpilen 401 (or the Vitpilen 401) as they are awesome looking and so much fun to ride ! And you don't have to use alot of RPM's to ride quickly. They get great gas mileage are pretty easy to work on and are reliable. They're not expensive and use a slightly reworked KTM 390 engine which means there's a lot of common parts available (KTM owns Husqvarna). I have a Svartpilen and it's the most fun you can have with your pants on !!! :grin: Check them out........Don't cost a lot of money to buy too.....The Kid
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I had a Ktm LC4 640 Supermoto years ago. A motard single is an absolute riot to play around on.
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Buell fits the description. I would suggest a Norton. Feel at 75 mph is like a modern bike at 125.
Pete
:grin:
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Have you considered the Triumph Street Triple? A 1050 will get you in all kinds of trouble while the 675 is thoroughly entertaining and possibly a better all-around bike. Someone else mentioned the Yamaha 900 triple and I've read that's an outstanding motor.
On the Guzzi side it's hard to beat a Griso though it's more sneaky fast than snappy.
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Has anyone had any experience with something like an early 80's Honda CB400 twin. I have been told of a cheap one in running condition. Do they handle and can what are they like off the mark especially with a sprocket change. If they are a candidate I can grab a couple before the collectors get on board and keep it as a Fun bike.
Steve
When I read that, I thought you said the CB 400 4 cylinder bike. I think that would be an excellent choice (except a nice one probably isn't cheap). Then sound awesome, seems to be many part suppliers for stuff, you can decide how nice to make/keep it. A friend of a friend has 3 in a shed that he hasn't touched in like 12 years ... we are trying to get him to part with 2 of them.
Here is a video of a guy ringing out a super nice condition one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La1NDXhw3vM
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Triumph Street Triple
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In the car world they like to say "Miata Is Always the Answer." A motorcycle equivalent is the Suzuki SV650. Inexpensive, light, extremely sweet V-twin motor, quick but not stupid fast; easy to find for sale.
Well said. SV's are extremely nice, fun bikes. Depending of course on your desired roads.
I think the Laws of Physics are responsible for the plethora of nice bikes in the 700cc range in recent years. SV's, VerSys 650's, FZ-07's, Royal Enfield 650's, KTM/Husky/Vitpilan 690's, probably the new Suzuki 700cc twin, etc.
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I was looking for a light fast fun bike to compliment my MGs, something fun for running around town on, and I ended up with a first gen air cooled Ducati 1100 Hypermotard. It’s under 400lb and has a broad torque range, really fun at any speed. I am 6’2”, and it fits me fine, better than a Monster, with a nice upright riding position. With a better than stock seat (the stock seat is like sitting on a log) and a flyscreen it’s pretty versatile. I have toured on mine, and other than the small tank I thought it was a pretty good bike for long distance riding. One thing that could a bit of an issue if you ride a lot is the 7500mi intervals between valve checks for the air cooled motor, but the motor is lovely and bomb proof.
(https://i.ibb.co/mJ8c3tC/B5995-B9-A-3691-4-BE4-A50-D-8-A09-D45465-ED.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mJ8c3tC)
(https://i.ibb.co/KsrsnWP/8143-D4-CD-D9-AF-430-A-AF0-A-8220571-DC6-B3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KsrsnWP)