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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: tris on September 29, 2022, 10:50:25 AM
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I have marginal high blood pressure controlled by tablets so get an annual check from our GP surgery where they take bloods amongst other things
Following one this week, surgery has rung me to set up a phone consultation with the doctor to discuss going onto statins to address a slightly higher cholesterol level ( IIRC the good cholesterol was slightly higher than the bad cholesterol)
What's the feeling on statins are they good or bad, loads of side effects, etc.?
Cheers
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My lovely bride was faced with the same situation several years ago and has followed the natural ingredients path to lower her numbers and has impressed the doctor with her results.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/medical/cholesterol-lowering-alternatives (https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/medical/cholesterol-lowering-alternatives) My $.02
Paul B :boozing:
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For me all drugs should be used as a last resort. They all have side effects. Diet and exercise should be the first course of action and only if diet and exercise can't bring the body back into balance should one consider drugs.
Everyone should do a risk/benefit assessment. I believe modern doctors are too quick to write prescriptions and when pharma companies were allowed to market drugs to television viewers the demand for drugs went up. Go figure.
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Thanks for the link RR2 I shall read with interest
TWA I'm of a similar mind.
I'm about a stone over weight and it seems that if I can get my act together and loose that, then cholesterol level and blood pressure will follow suit.
That would also come with a free performance boost for the bike :cool:
I'll see what the doc says and go from there but any thoughts will be gratefully received
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I've been on statins together with bp tablets since diagnosed with high bp about 10 years ago. I'm 72 Kg and 180cm.
Sometimes no life changes can sort things out and medication is required.
The statins were prescribed as a precaution, I've never had high cholesterol.
However I've read a lot of good stuff about statins and I've not suffered any side effects. I have no problem taking them and I'm no fan of pill popping.
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Lotsa heart disease in my family. I had an angioplasty in 1992 (42 yrs old) the same time frame that my brother had a heart attack. I have been on statins since then. I have tried, at various intervals, to go off of them but did not get the results I was looking for. So...back on the statins (and BP medicine). I get no side effects.
I had a son late in life and want to enjoy him as an adult for as long as I can. I also bought a loop this summer and want to ride that for a good number of years, then leave it to my son. I exercise vigorously every day. I weigh my food and log what I eat.
As I get older there are more things that I take meds for, and I've made peace with it.
My advice would be watch your weight, be careful what you eat, get plenty of exercise. Try it for a couple or few months, then get your cholesterol and blood pressure checked. While you are at it, check blood sugar too. If the numbers still suck, try the statins.
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Statins seem rather contentious....one of my cardiologists( who I longer see ) assured me that if I didn't take them I had about 6 months in me. I sought another opinion and that was exactly the opposite to what she said. I saw another cardiologist who agreed with the second opinion ...and all of that took place about 6 years ago now. Still around , everything still functioning ok in the cardiology department.
My HDL level is low ...genetically very common in my family. My non HDL level is just scraping the no longer safe level.But I know a couple of people who have ridiculously high non HDL levels, don't take statins and are very much alive and well too.
Much of it depends on genetics and diet.
I'd certainly get another opinion Tris
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I also endorse the diet and exercise approach over pills. Was threatened with Statins as my counts were getting on the high side. I started watching fatty food intake and eating more oats and my numbers dropped dramatically.
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They also plugged my numbers into QRISK calculator, something like this https://www.qrisk.org/three/
This decided that I had a 12.5% (10% being t threshold) chance of contracting coranory vascular disease in the next 10 years.
That was one of the reasons for starting this thread as that would also suggest that I have an 87.5% of NOT contracting CVD :undecided:
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Although I never needed to be on a statin due to a lifetime of low cholesterol numbers, along with no other risk factors, I had an urgent triple bypass a year ago. As part of my post bypass drug regimen I am on a statin and one other small pill the rest of my life. After they split your chest wide open, handle your heart, and put you back together I had no desire to doubt their wisdom of prescribing a statin. The explanation I got was they want to give my heart the best possible chance to keep going until the end of my lifespan. I wasn't going to argue with the guy that gave my heart an overhaul.
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I have been on statins over 20 years now. Was allergic to the 1st 2 that they tried and then they tried 3 others to find the one that works best for me. No major problems whit them since it all got sorted out. I think everyone is different and should try to find out what works best for you.
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Grapefruit can interfere with an enzyme that clears out or degrades certain drugs, including some (but not all) statins- I couldn't tell you which ones. But if you end up taking statins, you should ask if grapefruit is contraindicated.
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This.....
For me all drugs should be used as a last resort. They all have side effects. Diet and exercise should be the first course of action and only if diet and exercise can't bring the body back into balance should one consider drugs.
Everyone should do a risk/benefit assessment. I believe modern doctors are too quick to write prescriptions and when pharma companies were allowed to market drugs to television viewers the demand for drugs went up. Go figure.
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I think everyone is different and should try to find out what works best for you.
This.
My doctor, who I no longer use put me on a low dose statin and it didn’t bring down my cholesterol. He suggested fish oil before getting tested and that didn’t work either so instead of getting another opinion I kept everything status quo until I had a mild heart attack. Now I’m on a higher dose statin and everything is fine. I have a family history of death from heart attacks and as my cardiologist says, you can eat grass all day long and you will have high cholesterol. I had a stent implanted after the heart attack and have another artery that is partially blocked but the insurance companies won’t pay for another stent. I’m not overweight get a reasonable amount of exercise but it is what it is. Dad died from a heart attack, mom from cancer.
Given the two options I’ll take the heart attack.
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Not about to second guess your MD but having HDL higher than LDL is a good thing. I am not aware of that being an indicator for taking Statins, just the opposite.
Pete
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Hi Tris, 9-29-22
Sorry that you are going through this. I took statins (by pill and natural sources - red yeast rice) and wound up in the hospital..it turns out I was allergic to them. I now inject myself with Repatha once every 2 weeks - strictly prescription. Within eight months, my total cholesterol dropped by nearly 100 points. My HDL/LDL went to where it should be. I've been on Repatha for four years now. I'm sure that there are other treatments...speak with your cardiologist about them.
I am fully functional, I ride, exercise, watch my diet and I'm fine (for a 72 year old :wink:).
Be well stay well,
DougG
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Not about to second guess your MD but having HDL higher than LDL is a good thing. I am not aware of that being an indicator for taking Statins, just the opposite.
Pete
It was only 0.2 / 0.3 difference so yes better but may be not enough
This is all good stuff people so thanks, at least I'm not going to the phone consultation completely ignorant.......whic h is nice
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I like being physical and exercising. Trying Statins made my muscles ache. Controlling things via low BP meds, healthy lifestyle and not drinking cheap scotch. My Answer Statiins - BAD
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It was only 0.2 / 0.3 difference so yes better but may be not enough
This is all good stuff people so thanks, at least I'm not going to the phone consultation completely ignorant.......whic h is nice
I believe most of us have and LDL much higher than HDL. Ratio of LDL to HDL is considered OK if its under 2 so HDL=50 and LDL=80 is OK, not treated. Yours is less than 1.
Pete
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My thoughts are there are so many conflicting opinions because there is so much conflicting information.
If you go back to the very start there is a lot of controversy over the original study to determine what the safe cholesterol levels are.
There is strong evidence to support the idea that the findings of this study were selectively chosen to support a predetermined outcome.
There have been more recent studies that show different results. The point I am trying to make here is that the world medical profession is still studying what the safe level of cholesterol is, and does it affect the body as much as first thought or are there other factors at play. Please note my use of world as it is easy to look at the opinions of our own country and have confidence.
Every form of medication has side effects, I will be bold enough to call this a fact. The side effects will be different for every person. This is why the word may is used on the side effect list. I see comments like my doctor put me on medication X as a precaution. I read this as your doctor put you on a medication that has side effects. It was the doctor’s opinion that the side effects were the lesser evil than what the medication may prevent happening. To put this in Guzzi terms, do we put an oil additive in to make the bike last longer or will the additive cause some other issue? My personal opinion on the oil additive and medication question is it will depend on the individual. If the medication or oil additive provides piece of mind and a better mental outlook it may be the way to go as it has been documented that stress also causes heart conditions.
The internet has made a lot more information available, but often a lot more conflicting information depending on how the question is asked. To help form a logical opinion you may research life expectancy, death by heart disease compared to how common cholesterol medication is used in a particular country. If the countries that are using the most amounts of medication are not having the least number per captor of deaths, it indicates to me that there is more to the equation.
Since you asked for an opinion I will share mine. I would be very reluctant to go onto cholesterol medication if I had numbers like yours. It is my understanding that this is basically a lifelong decision. My opinion is skewed as I was put on a medication for an unrelated condition. The side effects decreased my quality of life and the withdrawal side effects made it very difficult to get off that particular medication. My doctor did not tell me about the withdrawal side of things until he confirmed that what I was experiencing was not that uncommon. On the other hand if I had close family members dropping of the perch due to heart conditions and the long living ones are on the same medication as your doctor has suggested I would consider going on them.
It is my opinion that we are becoming an over medicated society. It is also my opinion that some medical professionals only look at the issue in front of them and don't see the body as a whole. A bit like a poor mechanic that only fixes the obvious fault and does not look at the bike as a complete machine to find the cause of the fault and prevent it happening again. It is my opinion based on experiences that I have personally seen that a medication is prescribed then another tablet is given to help with the side effects followed by more and more medication that eventually overloads the body causing all sorts of issues.
As a plus, the fact that you are asking the original question shows that you are trying to make an educated decision that is correct for you.
Steve
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After taking them for a couple months My legs got weak.I quit immediately as I HAVE HEARD OF SOME PEOPLE BECOMING UNABLE TO WALK.Read the side effects before taking them.
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My father in law had several heart attacks and two bypass surgeries. He eventually succombed to heart disease. My wife's cholesterol numbers were through the roof. She went back to a vegan diet and has been slowly and steadily losing weight. Her numbers are coming down. The doctor recommended statins, but the expected reduction in cholesterol didn't make the risk of side effects worth while. 9 out of 10 people who are told to change their diet or die soon choose to eat the same way they always have. Cindy is the one in ten. She gets tested every 4 months, and while things are higher than optimal, they are so much better than they were. It can work, but it takes commitment.
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Please bear in mind that a motorcycle discussion board probably isn't the best place to get medical advice. The advice you get here will be worth every dollar you pay for it.
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Please bear in mind that a motorcycle discussion board probably isn't the best place to get medical advice. The advice you get here will be worth every dollar you pay for it.
From the responses I have read it is probably a very good place to get the opinions he is seeking. His Doctor can tell him their opinion why the feel they will be beneficial, they can also give him the list of possible side effects. What they often can't provide is real life experience on how they found taking the medication. By the way the question was asked and the responses I have seen Tris may now have a list of questions he can ask his doctor that he would not have been aware of.
I don't know how many doctors we have on the forum and this is not meant to be insulting to them. Every doctor I have met is human, most have a strong desire to help the patient. They can only prescribe what is available to them. If a doctor prescribed a treatment outside of the mainstream medical guidelines and things go wrong they may be in a world of hurt. Also a doctor only sees you for a short time. You know yourself better than a doctor. Medical knowledge is constantly changing and it is a big ask for every doctor to be up to date on every change. Much of the information provided to them is from the company who has an interest in the products success.
Steve
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Agreed, [cloudbase].
I had a very minor stroke twelve years ago, had my second one (not so minor) ten days ago. I am the poster boy for medication side effects and if one in a hundred or less get them, I'm the one. My brother says if he walks past a pharmacy he begins coughing and itching.
I've been resisting statins and trying alternatives but I just joined the club.
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.........By the way the question was asked and the responses I have seen Tris may now have a list of questions he can ask his doctor.........
This
The question was triggered by the initial assertion that I had 12.5% chance of having CVD in the next 10 years.
But my engineers head said that means I have a 87.5% of not succumbing and in my world those aren't bad odds
None of us are going to live forever and and if the drugs are essential then fine but if with some life style changes I can improve things then why take the chemicals?
I definitely have some questions now to ask the Dr - thanks everyone
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What a coincidence, I'm currently suffering from side effects of statins.
I have high BP and am taking medication to keep it under control which is working fine. Otherwise I'm in good health, fairly fit, cycle around 12 miles and walk 2 - 3 miles a day, eat healthily, not overweight, cholesterol levels not too high etc. but at a recent checkup was advised that I might want to consider taking statins due to the BP, my age (60) and a family history of heart condition (my Mother died young but I don't have what she had) scoring me a 'Q-risk' of 12%.
I looked into it and was initially undecided but then went with the Drs. advice thinking that it was worth doing, low risk of side effects etc. and can always stop taking them if it happens.
I took them for 8 days but developed severe pains in my arms and legs so stopped and now, 5 weeks later I'm still in pain, mostly in my upper arms. It varies from day to day but this morning I had to get up at 4:30am because the pain was unbearable, I'm struggling to do many things that were perfectly normal before (including riding motorbikes) such as lifting my arms away from my body.
They did prescribe me a different statin that I'm told 'should' help but I've not taken it yet and probably won't now because I can't risk going though this again - the worst part is that the pain is most severe when trying to sleep so it's wearing me down.
I'm not trying to put anyone off and I know that many people take them without problem but they're definitely not for me.
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I have marginal high blood pressure controlled by tablets so get an annual check from our GP surgery where they take bloods amongst other things
Following one this week, surgery has rung me to set up a phone consultation with the doctor to discuss going onto statins to address a slightly higher cholesterol level ( IIRC the good cholesterol was slightly higher than the bad cholesterol)
What's the feeling on statins are they good or bad, loads of side effects, etc.?
Cheers
Some do well on them, I am completely intolerant of them. Theyu cripple me.
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......scoring me a 'Q-risk' of 12%.......
I'll see your Q-risk of 12% and raise you a Q-risk of 12.5%
The call with the Doc might not be as short as he plans!
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Quote from: tris on Today at 02:23:11 PM (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=116501.msg1835019#msg1835019)I'll see your Q-risk of 12% and raise you a Q-risk of 12.5%
The call with the Doc might not be as short as he plans!
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>Actually it was 12.12%.>So a (theoretical) 12% risk of having a heart attack/stroke etc. in the next 10 years but, looking at it another way - an 88% likelihood of not doing so.The 'calculator' that they use doesn't seem very thorough to me either, for example they don't seem to go into healthy eating exercise etc. very much, plus if I take out the '1st degree relative heart attack' (which I don't really consider relevant) it brings me below their magic 10% at which point they don't recommend statins.
BTW I found it interesting that the Doctor told me they used to advise statins at 20% but since they got cheaper they reduced it to 10% - so it's all money related anyway...
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First doc put me on them, second doc took me off, and when I moved to TX I got a third doc who put me back on them. My wife liked No. 2 the best!
The only thing I can say for sure is that the weak legs issues is real. I'm on the Crestor generic now and it's not as bad but the Lipitor I used to take you could really feel it.
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I’m not typical. I’ve been a runner for near 28 years, 6 days a week usually. I cook nearly all my own food. With the exception of whiskey perhaps more than I should, I tend to be a healthy eater/consumer. I’m 5’9 and 155lbs so in relatively good shape overall. This being said, since I was very young (52 now) they’ve known I had genetically high cholesterol. Without meds it usually runs in the neighborhood of 420ish with greatly too much bad cholesterol versus the good. I’ve been on statins now for nearly 13 years or more, I think. I take Crestor and Zetia daily without complications thus far. In combination they bring my cholesterol down to about 240-260ish. Still high but I do not yet have diabetes nor high blood pressure and with those numbers all combined, I’m doing relatively well in terms of that chance of an event. Just saying again, everyone is different and should find her/his own solutions. :thumb:
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I’m not typical. I’ve been a runner for near 28 years, 6 days a week usually. I cook nearly all my own food. With the exception of whiskey perhaps more than I should, I tend to be a healthy eater/consumer. I’m 5’9 and 155lbs so in relatively good shape overall. This being said, since I was very young (52 now) they’ve known I had genetically high cholesterol. Without meds it usually runs in the neighborhood of 420ish with greatly too much bad cholesterol versus the good. I’ve been on statins now for nearly 13 years or more, I think. I take Crestor and Zetia daily without complications thus far. In combination they bring my cholesterol down to about 240-260ish. Still high but I do not yet have diabetes nor high blood pressure and with those numbers all combined, I’m doing relatively well in terms of that chance of an event. Just saying again, everyone is different and should find her/his own solutions. :thumb:
Curious to know how much Omega-3 you consume through your diet.
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Just my history .... not advice:
May 2001 - 58 yrs old. Returned from multi day motorcycle ride. Felt lousy. Made appt with doc. Next stop ..... University Hospital, Cleveland Ohio. After open heart surgery, doc informs me I set a new bypass high for him. Six. Been on statins since.
May 2016 - 73 yrs old. After monitoring my aortic valve for several years, my Cleveland Clinic cardio doc said it was time for replacement valve. During that surgery, they performed a single bypass replacement, and later informed me that 5 out of 6 of the previous bypasses from 2001 were still in good shape.
Bob
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I'm on the Crestor generic now and it's not as bad but the Lipitor I used to take you could really feel it.
I’m taking the Creator generic, 40mg and they only thing that occasionally bothers me is my legs but only when I kneel down.
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I've been a statins for 25 years. With two Stent procedures, one heart attack and high cholesterol I think statins are a good idea to say the least. I have been short of breath lately after some strenuous activity so I am expecting more treatment soon. I have a routine appointment with my cardiologist in a couple of weeks, we will see what he says. My wife wanted me to go in two days ago. She just found out that I was having this issue but she is a serious worry wart. I am 77 so age is catching up to me.
kk
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Several years ago statins were prescribed for my wife; she could not tolerate them and now takes heavy BP reducers (not sure the name). In early 2012 she had quad bypass and has had high BP for nearly 40 years. Her dad died from heart failure at 54 years.
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Moparnut,my biker weightlifter uncle had similar symptoms and didn’t go to the MD and keeled over 7 days later.Listen to your wife.
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i was taking Lipitor for years until I ran across a study that said taking it every other day gave the same results. I did that for a year and went for my annual test and the doc said my numbers were they same as last year and it was ok to it because they found it stays in your system longer than they thought.He said I can take it twice a week. So I did that for a year and and the next test was good. Don’t take any less though he said.
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The timing of this thread is good since I rated a 14.5% recently.
I know my Doc will want to RX statins but I’m not so sure.
What about COq10? At least in conjunction with a low dose?
I dunno, still thinking about it.
Thanks for bringing it up Tris.
Jack
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My wife of 50 years (pause for applause) has had 3 heart attacks and 5 stents since 2007. She is 5' 6" and has weighed between 110 and 120 lbs for the last 5 decades. She has been on statins for 15 years. Her side effects are loss of muscle tone and poor skin tone (thin, fragile, easily bruised, etc) but her docs over those years have all been insistent that she continue the statins.
We have met several health professionals (2 RNs and 3 chiropractors) who have survived heart attacks and adamantly refuse to take statins. Statins clearly are a mixed bag, but where indicated apparently extend one's longevity.
Ralph
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The timing of this thread is good since I rated a 14.5% recently.
I know my Doc will want to RX statins but I’m not so sure.
What about COq10? At least in conjunction with a low dose?
I dunno, still thinking about it.
Thanks for bringing it up Tris.
Jack
No problem but RX and COq10 ???
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My wife of 50 years (pause for applause) has had 3 heart attacks and 5 stents since 2007. She is 5' 6" and has weighed between 110 and 120 lbs for the last 5 decades. She has been on statins for 15 years. Her side effects are loss of muscle tone and poor skin tone (thin, fragile, easily bruised, etc) but her docs over those years have all been insistent that she continue the statins.
We have met several health professionals (2 RNs and 3 chiropractors) who have survived heart attacks and adamantly refuse to take statins. Statins clearly are a mixed bag, but where indicated apparently extend one's longevity.
Ralph
Well said.
My doctor of 30 plus years advocated people not taking statins.
Statins are every bit as controversial a subject as three subjects that come to mind which are all banned here.
Huge variations exist in biology and personal reactions to a lot of medicines. The phrase "Your Milege May Vary!" also often applies to medicine.
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I've been on them for 9 years now with no side effects whatsoever. I don't know if they are doing any good or not and that's the nature of this type of medication. Would I be dead by now if I hadn't taken them? Nobody will never know.
Your life, your choice, there's no difinitive answer.
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No problem but RX and COq10 ???
RX = prescribe
COQ10 = coenzyme Q or ubiquinone (an antioxidant that your body produces naturally but decreases with age) Some say they can have good effect when added to statins and others say take it in place of statins. :popcorn:
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I've got some of all of it and take meds, all my numbers are acceptable except my blood pressure fluctuates. I had BP under control until a quack changed my meds, going back hasn't helped. I work out 90 minutes, 3 times a week. My weight is lower than was in 15 years ago.
I feel OK other than joint and muscles aches: both shoulders, left knee, lower back, right hip, left achilles, both elbows, left thumb. They start intermittently, go to chronic, then settle back to light or go away. I suppose the hip is the worse, since I learned I broke off a chip of it at one time. I do regular PT.
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I've been on them for 9 years now with no side effects whatsoever. I don't know if they are doing any good or not and that's the nature of this type of medication. Would I be dead by now if I hadn't taken them? Nobody will never know.
Your life, your choice, there's no difinitive answer.
also very well said.
we're all riding "murdercycles" so how much sense can anyone have to ask our opinions regarding health?
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Make sure that when you have your annual checkup you ask that they include a CK test. After my statins had been changed I had a test and at 8am the following day my GP was on the phone telling me not to take them.