Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fedeskiff on December 08, 2022, 07:18:43 AM
-
Hello to everyone!
I own a precious V7 Classic 2009. Its a bike in a really good condition with 19.400km on it.
It's been an year more or less since i bought it. It's my first large cc motorcycle and so far it's been a relationship of both love and hate.
Since I bought it I've been having some trouble with the Idling. The previous owner told me that sometimes the bike stalls in hot weather. I thought that with a simple TB balance and some idle adjusting the bike would run fine.
Some months later i took the bike to the Official Dealer in Spain, where they balance the TBs and Adjusted the idle. Unfortunately the problem still remains.
The bike iddles great for a long time, suddenly (when engine is hot) rpms start to drop until bike stalls. This could be avoided with a small blip of the throttle and the bike idles like bethoven again. It's getting hard to find the problem due this unexpected frequency of the failure.
I can recognize that this behavior it's very often when the engine is hot.
Things i already checked:
Spark plugs are new and according with the manual.
When idling fine, you can maintain idling unplugging any of the plugs. (I didn't find a failure in cylinders).
Air filter is new.
Oil is fresh. I need to recheck the level to see if it's not over.
Battery voltage when idling is 12.4v. When adding throttle climbs to 13v and beyond.
any guesses would be a great starting point to me.
Thanks for taking the time, I love the riding of this bike when it's running however I am feeling stuck with this problem with the idling and sometimes I want to sell the bike.
Fede
(https://i.ibb.co/k06Ccg7/me-and-bike.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k06Ccg7)
-
To what rpm is the hot idle set? It could be as simple as increasing the hot idle speed very slightly.
Also how is the TPS set? I would be curious to connect a DVOM to the TPS and watch voltage output at idle and while opening and closing the throttle to see if there is a spike or drop near idle.
-
This might be incredibly obvious, but are your valves too tight? My V65 (which is similar in some ways, not so much in others) would exhibit the exact same behavior when the valves (exhaust) needed adjustment. As the engine heated, they would tighten just enough to kill it. After a hard run down the mountains, I would arrive at the base and stop at a stoplight, the iddle would hunt down until it stalled.
Adjusting them to the loosest spec would remedy the problem for several thousand miles
-
When is working fine, the bike idles like Beethoven at 1150rpm. However when the failure appears, rpms drop less than 900.
Sacred screw was initially touched by some inoperant mechanic. However the service workshop reseted the sacred by matching the yellow paint mark that was still in place.
After getting the sacred back into place, bike has been balanced, reseted TPS, and then increased by opening both air bleed screws (something that i find out strange because I understood that you need to open only one).
I'll check with the DVOM the TPS output. Which is the range that i should be looking at?
thanks
Fede
-
This might be incredibly obvious, but are your valves too tight? My V65 (which is similar in some ways, not so much in others) would exhibit the exact same behavior when the valves (exhaust) needed adjustment. As the engine heated, they would tighten just enough to kill it. After a hard run down the mountains, I would arrive at the base and stop at a stoplight, the iddle would hunt down until it stalled.
Adjusting them to the loosest spec would remedy the problem for several thousand miles
I trusted the valves clearance set by the official mechanical service. However as soon as I get my bike back I'll check it. Sounds like is matching the problem.
However i'll guess in that case bike will always idle unsteady and the failure would not be suddenly.
Thanks a lot
Fede
-
Both air screws should be bout 1/2- 3/4 open not just one. Maybe TB's are dirty, if airscrew is all gooed up it will be worse when cold.
I clean my TB's every 10Kmi, it makes a difference. Make sure valves are set at .006" intake & .008" exhaust, not 4 & 6.
-
Both air screws should be bout 1/2- 3/4 open not just one. Maybe TB's are dirty, if airscrew is all gooed up it will be worse when cold.
I clean my TB's every 10Kmi, it makes a difference. Make sure valves are set at .006" intake & .008" exhaust, not 4 & 6.
Hi Steve, thank you so much for your suggestions. TB's have been cleaned by the Mechanic. I suggested to him checking the stepper but he replied to me that in this bike, with 19.400km, it's hard to believe that this is generating the problem.
Would you recommend me any other check that is causing suddenly rpm drops ?
Thanks
Fede
-
I suggested to him checking the stepper but he replied to me that in this bike, with 19.400km, it's hard to believe that this is generating the problem.
Stepper? Like an Idle Air Control valve?!?
Because there isn't one on a 2TB smallblock. That's why you have a fast-idle lever on left grip.
-
Stepper? Like an Idle Air Control valve?!?
Because there isn't one on a 2TB smallblock. That's why you have a fast-idle lever on left grip.
Ups! I expected to have a stepper valve. So does the idle relies only on the air intake by sacred screw and bypass?
Usually adding a little fast-idle lever fixes the problem.
Thanks
fede
-
Ups! I expected to have a stepper valve. So does the idle relies only on the air intake by sacred screw and bypass?
Usually adding a little fast-idle lever fixes the problem.
Thanks
fede
Yes, idle is completely mechanically controlled.
Hot idle by the linkage and bypass screws.
Cold/Fast idle by using that fast idle lever to hold the linkage open slightly thereby increasing air flow to the throttle bodies and idle speed. It's the same as temporarily changing the closed position of the throttle grip.
-
Make sure you are looking in the correct bike manual like Kev says, it is not like the other Guzzi's of that era. More like a California model.
That's why I mentioned the Valve setting, book say's one thing but it is too small and finally updated in 2012 or so. The mechanic should know that if he's been at dealer for a while.
For a higher idle you could open airscrews equally a bit like 1/8 turn more, usually done w/carb sync attached so to be equal. Make sure they are not closed. It will run rich mixture when closed.
Idle speed is set with the airscrews, open more to increase.
There was also an update on the fuel tank valve for the vent on this model, Behind the LH throttle body to inside is location. Newer valve is blue/yellow, old one is gray. New one has no restrictions in it. It is also called a tipover valve to keep fuel leaking if bike is laid over.
-
Make sure you are looking in the correct bike manual like Kev says, it is not like the other Guzzi's of that era. More like a California model.
That's why I mentioned the Valve setting, book say's one thing but it is too small and finally updated in 2012 or so. The mechanic should know that if he's been at dealer for a while.
For a higher idle you could open airscrews equally a bit like 1/8 turn more, usually done w/carb sync attached so to be equal. Make sure they are not closed. It will run rich mixture when closed.
Thanks for de detail about different engine, I was following the classic workshop manual as a guide, the dealer is following that manual as well. Valves are not 0.15mm and 0.20mm for sure.
Unfortunately as I said before, the worst thing about this problem is that it's not systematic. Bike may idle 4 minutes great and then suddenly starts to fail (until throttle blip). The only thing that i am finding strange is that, in case of being a TB setup problem, the bike would always fail , am i right making this assumptions?
I'll refer to the california manual for learning more stuff.
Thanks
Fede
-
Valves should be .15 & .20 for it to run correctly. Looser setting so they don't burn valves over time.
-
Spark plug resistor caps with high resistance or intermittent opens when hot can produce these symptoms. Thay should be replaced prophylactic.
Brian
-
I just picked up the bike from the Dealer, I thought he was going to tell me that they didn't work on it but he surprised me telling that the bike was done.
He raised the idling speed adjusting bypass screws apparently.
I went for a ride and did not experienced any stalling. This ride included some avenues, little highway, practicing low speed maneuvering in parking lot, and going back to the city.
When i arrived to the garage i plugged the guzziDiag to check the actual settings. I'll post a video, what do you guys think about?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EXNzn7X-lsZV4lQH2ZTBpEwooTJtiYan/view?usp=share_link
thanks
fede
-
That looks fine, bout the same as the ones I looked at. Even 1200rpm is OK for that motor. Now go ride, see if all is well.
Sounds like you got a nice shop you go to, got you in to adj a little bit.
-
Hello to everyone! Just an update here,
After picking the bike from the workshop and testing, i realized it's stalling again.
I wont take again the same bike to the shop cause they are not able to find the problem. (official dealer)
I just did a video of the way the bike stalls when failing, maybe its useful for somebody to give me any advice.
I'll check all the things listed on top, but I can still not explain why sometimes the bike works great, and sometimes stall. It doesn't matter if its cold or hot weather.
I hope to find the problem otherwise I'll sold the bike cause it's driving me crazy :(
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUhMeXE1XhaD5o2_yM3GYfF1cwJrIcOU/view?usp=sharing
-
Did the shop check the fuel pump? Especially the 1/2 plastic fuel filter. Fuel filter should be an all metal one. Some had a bad fuel line that would slide off pump. Sounds like it runs out of gas & dies or fuel pump shuts off.
-
Did the shop check the fuel pump? Especially the 1/2 plastic fuel filter. Fuel filter should be an all metal one. Some had a bad fuel line that would slide off pump. Sounds like it runs out of gas & dies or fuel pump shuts off.
Nope, they did nothing, just adjusting the idling but not looking for the problems. I'll do this myself. Do I need to undo the fuel tank for checking this?
Thanks
Fede
-
Yes, you need to take fuel pump plate off the underside of tank. Empty tank first then disconnect lines, 6 small bolts hold it in place w/rubber gasket. There is an electrical plug also.
-
Perfect, could you please tell me how I can also check the vent valve?
Thanks
Fede
-
That was in a bulletin here to swap out for a blue/orange one. Free from importer, free flowing but a membrane to keep in fuel. It is on a line to tank and to the inside of LH throttle body, most likely a gray plastic part. There is also a hose for the cap drain that goes down. If you search here you may find pictures of all this, might be in archives from 09-10.
-
That was in a bulletin here to swap out for a blue/orange one. Free from importer, free flowing but a membrane to keep in fuel. It is on a line to tank and to the inside of LH throttle body, most likely a gray plastic part. There is also a hose for the cap drain that goes down. If you search here you may find pictures of all this, might be in archives from 09-10.
Do you know if this issue was also known for European bikes? Mine is in Spain.
How can I check if the tank cap is the right one?
Thanks
Fede.
-
Don't know if they swapped out tipover valve in Spain. OR which cap. Here is a Service manual
https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/750/V7Classic_022009_Atelier(GB).pdf
Here is a parts book
https://guzzitek.org/parts_list/pb/750/V7_PL_Compil.pdf
The cap vent should line up with hole and hose that goes through tank to the vent hose.
-
Today I checked the valves specs, they were off by a little towards loose side. Some asshole mechanic used Silicon instead of a proper gasket. Official service done nothing about this so they never checked the valves.
I inspected the Spark plugs and connectors, everything looks good so far.
I took also out the injectors for cleaning, I am updating a photo for some feedback.
thanks to everyone
Fede
(https://i.ibb.co/wLsFP0S/IMG-3649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wLsFP0S)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZJWLWcr/IMG-3654.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZJWLWcr)
(https://i.ibb.co/pdyBPG3/IMG-3646.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pdyBPG3)
-
That video sounded like you had one cylinder firing properly and one missing during the drama.
Some of the responses here although worth checking out, do seem to fall over due to the report you gave that the bike picks up again with a crisp blip of the throttle and continues to idle properly for some time .
If a short blip temporarily banishes the problem, I cannot (yet) see how it can be a setting issue…(valves etc…)
It sounded like one spark was failing and the live cylinder could not maintain the idle.
Are the spark plugs the correct heat range ?
One sounds like it’s gently fouling and the blip clears the issue.
Perplexing for sure… :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
-
When idling fine, you can maintain idling unplugging any of the plugs. (I didn't find a failure in cylinders).
What do you mean by this ?
Are you suggesting that it will idle one one cylinder, dragging the dead one ?
-
What do you mean by this ?
Are you suggesting that it will idle one one cylinder, dragging the dead one ?
Hi huzo thanks for the message,
When the bike is idling in a good manner, its able to still go on if you disconnect one spark plug. It does not matter if it's left or right.
I agree with you that sometimes seems like there's one cylinder failing.
I am checking at the moment everything related to fuel system. Would you give me any advice for checking related to electrical?
Spark Plugs are NGK BR8ES
I purchased them by amazon https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B0000AXR7A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks
Fede
-
Hi huzo thanks for the message,
When the bike is idling in a good manner, its able to still go on if you disconnect one spark plug. It does not matter if it's left or right.
I agree with you that sometimes seems like there's one cylinder failing.
I am checking at the moment everything related to fuel system. Would you give me any advice for checking related to electrical?
Spark Plugs are NGK BR8ES
I purchased them by amazon https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B0000AXR7A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks
Fede
Ok…
Next time it misbehaves, take one plug lead off and see if the apparent problem goes away..
Try to ascertain if you have one cylinder failing or both..(I think one).
If you can find which side, you are on your way.
If the bike dies immediately when you remove the (left) cap, then the right cylinder is the failing one.
If it does not die, then the left cylinder is the failing one.
Personally, I would obtain two timing lights and try to get the bike to fail in the darkness. You should see the hesitancy in the indications of the lights.
That of course does not rule out plugs, but you have renewed them.
Attaching a timing light would indicate if your issue is fuel or spark.
While typing, I wondered if you have a sticking valve.
That would link the issue to a hot motor and also provide some context as to why a sharp blip helps to clear it.
It REALLY sounds like one pot laying down gently to me….
-
Ok…
Next time it misbehaves, take one plug lead off and see if the apparent problem goes away..
Try to ascertain if you have one cylinder failing or both..(I think one).
If you can find which side, you are on your way.
If the bike dies immediately when you remove the (left) cap, then the right cylinder is the failing one.
If it does not die, then the left cylinder is the failing one.
Personally, I would obtain two timing lights and try to get the bike to fail in the darkness. You should see the hesitancy in the indications of the lights.
That of course does not rule out plugs, but you have renewed them.
Attaching a timing light would indicate if your issue is fuel or spark.
While typing, I wondered if you have a sticking valve.
That would link the issue to a hot motor and also provide some context as to why a sharp blip helps to clear it.
It REALLY sounds like one pot laying down gently to me….
Yes buddy that seems very logical to me too. I'll try to check for failures tomorrow after cleaning the injectors.
I did an Arduino Uno powered pulse machine (photo attached) it has a pot so i can change the pulse of the injection.
You surprised me with the sticking valve, how that might be possible?
Thanks
Fede
(https://i.ibb.co/TPCvQFW/Whats-App-Image-2022-12-25-at-23-20-41.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TPCvQFW)
-
Update: both injectors cleaned and checked.
both working well
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C2ckhYEeOft31rkKn43g3VxqUZJy_wH8/view?usp=sharing (Video of injectors)
Still bike stalling
-
I’ll bet my aching arse that it’s not a valve, but you ask how COULD it be possible ?
#1
Minuscule bend in the stem and the spring does not close it at low revs, at high(er) revs the kinetic energy of the moving valve effectively slams it against the seat.
#2
Manufacturing tolerances have allowed too tight a fit of the stem in the guide.
#3
At some point in the past, the valve has tangled.
It’s all BS though, because it idles ok for too long before the anomaly manifests, just a thought experiment.
That stutter on the point of stall really sounds like one pot laying down, but even that reasoning fails because you say it will (rather surprisingly) idle on one good pot.
A defective fuel pump would fail under high demand, not low.
A dying cylinder would not kill the whole thing after the revelation about being able to idle on one.
Is your bike retarding enough in the ignition timing at low revs ? (Do the timing light test.)
When your bike is staggering at close to stall, will a VERY small throttle application save it ?
It’s got me rooted… :sad:
-
I just noticed that as the bike is idling, the stuttering does not slow the rpm at all, the beat is steady and the tach is also.
The bike is idling at the same speed when it dies as it is just before.
Is your cam position sensor gapped correctly and secure and the supply harness/plug all ok ?…(No contaminant present.)
I REALLY want the timing light test done, preferably with two lights simultaneously. Buy one and borrow one.
-
Fuel..?
I’m reminded of what a two stroke lawn mower does after you’ve turned the fuel off and are waiting for it to run out and stop.
They get to the point of a very low idle and give that bang…bang…bang bang….bang sort of stuttering beat to the firing, just before stopping.
I cannot explain though, why a struggling fuel pump or supply issue, would only manifest at low demand settings.
-
Fuel..?
I’m reminded of what a two stroke lawn mower does after you’ve turned the fuel off and are waiting for it to run out and stop.
They get to the point of a very low idle and give that bang…bang…bang bang….bang sort of stuttering beat to the firing, just before stopping.
I cannot explain though, why a struggling fuel pump or supply issue, would only manifest at low demand settings.
Thanks for all the messages:
Two points
a) I am really interested in doing the timing light test, however i've never done it before. could you please explain me how or share any video so i can understand what to check?
b) I remembered also when cutting the fuel of the outboard engines , however i think it was a different noise and kinda the whole engine failing at the same time maybe?
I am waiting for the new fuel filter, i'll replace the other one in case there's something wrong there.
Thanks
Fede
-
Also, what tells the injectors WHEN to fire…?
-
Thanks for all the messages:
Two points
a) I am really interested in doing the timing light test, however i've never done it before. could you please explain me how or share any video so i can understand what to check?
b) I remembered also when cutting the fuel of the outboard engines , however i think it was a different noise and kinda the whole engine failing at the same time maybe?
I am waiting for the new fuel filter, i'll replace the other one in case there's something wrong there.
Thanks
Fede
I am thinking if there is a stray or mis timed spark, you will see the erratic nature of the flash on the light, coinciding with the stagger in the beat.
Are you getting excessive noise from your camchain ?
Wondering if there’s a fluctuation in the cam timing at low rpm allowing the cam timing to jump around.
Do the injectors take their commands from the cam position sensor ?
Again, timing light…. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
-
I am really interested in doing the timing light test, however i've never done it before. could you please explain me how or share any video so i can understand what to check?
Here’s a video I found on the topic. https://youtu.be/563BXGixEUA
You’ll see how it’s possible to tell if your timing is leaping around and becoming inaccurate, also if the ignition pulse is failing intermittently, the light will fluctuate with the miss in the idle beat.
At least that’s the plan….
I did get a bit hazy as to why he sets the timing @ 20 deg BTDC @ idle revs, but that’s not our concern here.
Notice how the distributor is up against the stop almost, but anyway that’s not our business.
-
I am thinking if there is a stray or mis timed spark, you will see the erratic nature of the flash on the light, coinciding with the stagger in the beat.
Are you getting excessive noise from your camchain ?
Wondering if there’s a fluctuation in the cam timing at low rpm allowing the cam timing to jump around.
Do the injectors take their commands from the cam position sensor ?
Again, timing light…. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Could you please tell me where is the cam position sensor located so I can check it? I am looking at the Workshop Manual but i am not able to find it. I'll check that is matching the specs.
I understood perfectly with the attached video, just wondering:
if bike idling rpms are around 1200. This means 20 revs per second and so 10 lights per second? Is it normal to appreciate the difference in the blinking just by eye? Maybe this is a silly question but gives an idea of my mechanical knowledge
Thanks!
Fede
-
https://www.amazon.es/XUBX-Comprobador-Herramienta-detecci%C3%B3n-diagn%C3%B3stico/dp/B08P2JJHJF/ref=sr_1_6?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=30C6C5BHJMWEX&keywords=luz+encendido+bujia&qid=1672091271&sprefix=luz+encendido+buji%2Caps%2C91&sr=8-6
Is this inline light good enough for checking? it's a budget price
-
Could you please tell me where is the cam position sensor located so I can check it? I am looking at the Workshop Manual but i am not able to find it. I'll check that is matching the specs.
I understood perfectly with the attached video, just wondering:
if bike idling rpms are around 1200. This means 20 revs per second and so 10 lights per second? Is it normal to appreciate the difference in the blinking just by eye? Maybe this is a silly question but gives an idea of my mechanical knowledge
Thanks!
Fede
That reasoning is sound regarding the frequency of the flash.
10 per second is correct, I think you will perceive it.
Someone else better than me will help you with the location of the sensor on your bike.
Also, I expect any half decent timing light will do.
-
Can i go for a ride with the inline light on? :tongue: :grin:
-
Can i go for a ride with the inline light on? :tongue: :grin:
I can see no reason not to. All it’s doing is sensing the pulse in the wire and switching on the lamp.
-
I’m assured by Pete Roper that the bike has been at best poorly tuned and at worst, had it’s TB’s molested. He suggests that the stuttering that we witness, is actually spitting back through a badly ”adjusted” TB.
Also the suggestion is that the plug cap or caps are maggoted.
-
I’m assured by Pete Roper that the bike has been at best poorly tuned and at worst, had it’s TB’s molested. He suggests that the stuttering that we witness, is actually spitting back through a badly ”adjusted” TB.
Also the suggestion is that the plug cap or caps are maggoted.
The bike indeed has the sacred screw modified and set back to position by matching the yellow paint. I cannot tell if it was previous owner or bad mechanic who did the mess.
I bought recently a Morgan Carbtune so i'll check the TB balance on my own despite dealer service.
Is the sacred screw so critical that being 1/8 of turn out of position is making the bike idling poorly? I could understand that maybe combustion is not perfect, but is it possible to stall the bike for that reason?
Unfortunately I can't afford a new TB pair, they cost more than 1500 euros. So i'll have to run out of possible solutions.
Thanks
Fede
(https://i.ibb.co/jTxCr79/Whats-App-Image-2022-12-27-at-09-40-15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jTxCr79)
-
https://www.ebay.it/itm/324361104749?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D40388d7f301a45668c4456f43165bb87%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D121273953970%26itm%3D324361104749%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1&amdata=cksum%3A32436110474940388d7f301a45668c4456f43165bb87%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAAA8Hfu33UHQ7b5PJ8ZY%252FcxAQADT0KkxIq64ExAXLpB4NB7zoNWQYuiICoOyllJ4canAkLoQ%252BbAZbPbSs0fnlsoFEuaqUBd9YbKiZl0xqaN%252BWTYNVP%252F0UVLiD%252FXcKTls3za%252BeIQuB180xynmdyA6bzADDmsSJz2XI2eDOtSpE4fTq%252BhQr9y%252F87E5yruu47vR9RXug4N8jym2m%252FzcWnFXpla2k173IIEvyhjryVcqmwTb46npfLHjA14hodwUYmA%252B3X7BFiQ3YrPIe1FKeWozx7Oxi9d%252FgxpaVqEkAtZeHv8OXMAClDG11KCPTNDD175WeZOyw%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=21013787317
I could afford a second hand TB, however i think we cannot trust the sacred screw neither, right?
Thanks
Fede
-
Here’s as much as I can confidently claim to be true.
The molesting of the screw does more than just throw the TB’s out of sync. That TB has to have the butterfly at the correct angle, to flow the correct amount of air at a certain TPS setting. Simply having them both equal is not the be all and end all. However, if a sacred screw has not been played with, you can tell because the paint bond is not broken.
Even if we take a leap of faith and say that the screw is back where it should be, it’s probably well worth building or obtaining a manometer and ensure the TB’s are synced.
-
motomoda.roper@gmail.com
Is Pete Roper’s address, if you e mail him he’ll have some good info for you.
-
Some updates:
I spoke with peter and he gently replied to me basically that i am toasted. No way to set the bike with no sacred or linked arm.
As I never give up until I am 100% cooked I decided to give it a try on my own.
This is what I did:
This is what I did:
I matched as best as I could all the remaining yellow paint marks on the link arm and throttle stop.
Balanced the TB's at 2500-3500 RPM.
After that I reseted the TPS.
I reached a point that the bike was idling very low even with bypass screws totally open at throttle stop, so I adjusted 1/8 of the throttle stop and reset the TPS again.
After realizing that the bike was idling better, I fine tuned the Idling RPMs and Balance at 1150rpm +- 50.
I checked this 3 or 4 times after cooling the engine a couple of times until I was happy.
After that I did two 40 minute rides, and so far these are my results:
a) No stalling at idling during the ride.
b) Rpms are not bouncing back and forth
c) Bike is Vibrating much less, so I can use my mirrors now.
d) Throttle response is crisp the whole range.
I'll keep riding this week to see if it's not stalling anymore.
Some videos below:
TB balance @2000/3000 rpm
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oZ5NW6rMcvpH5tRVTwB8GQYjas0kq-KZ/view?usp=share_link
Riding the bike around the city.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oYtlvcBZha1G8GZtK7zOB5FyQg40tlqB/view?usp=share_link
Does it make any sense to check with a laser thermometer the outtake temperature as a double check?
thanks
Fede
-
I’d be more inclined to just ride it (heart in mouth) and see if and problem is gone under all conditions. It will take some time to not keep casually blipping the throttle in anticipation of it stalling, but time will tell.
Maybe pull the plugs and check the colour, but riding is the way to go.
-
UPDATE: Ok so after a couple of rides I experienced only one stall overall, i would say not so bad overall..
Unfortunately after speaking with Pete Roper, telling me that the bike will never run well again made me think again about this thing regarding sacred and linkrod..
After a couple of days I decided to purchase a second hand TB set. Its looking in good condition with proper yellow paint in the threads, I'll upload some pictures so you can give me any opinion about this.
Any advice about how to proceed on the swap would be nice as well. I can see that this set has two sacred and mine only one in left side.. is it right model?
Thanks a lot
Fede
(https://i.ibb.co/3cQ50VR/Whats-App-Image-2023-01-06-at-21-50-48.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3cQ50VR)
(https://i.ibb.co/wRnSnTX/Whats-App-Image-2023-01-06-at-21-50-47.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wRnSnTX)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZxGSkrD/Whats-App-Image-2023-01-06-at-21-50-45.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZxGSkrD)
-
I'd use a round feeler gauge and make your own the same. Can't get any better... Check TPS on the new set in case they are for a model that has manual reset. Usually V7's here had 1 screw and no screw on opposit side. Just the arm for setting other side.
It looks like the pair are manual adjust TPS to me. From what model?
-
Míght be from a breva maybe? This is all the information that I have:
(https://i.ibb.co/2hhx6g1/0-D9-F6886-F396-4389-BAEA-E93-F5-D24-E60-B.png) (https://ibb.co/2hhx6g1)
Is there a manual reset for tps? Every step forward I take I am going twice backwards. Lol
Thanks
Fede
-
If it looks the same as yours(TPS) I'd use it. It looked to be a curved adjustable slot for mounting. I thought they just had a hole.
-
If it looks the same as yours(TPS) I'd use it. It looked to be a curved adjustable slot for mounting. I thought they just had a hole.
maybe this photo explains better, looks like same
thanks
fede
(https://i.ibb.co/vL24dks/Whats-App-Image-2023-01-07-at-08-11-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vL24dks)
-
Rock & Roll, I'd still get the measurements & set the ones on your bike identical to the ones you bought. Same gap for butterflys.
While you have a chance to do it, then you have an extra set. OR ride it first to see if glitch is gone. Then you know what was wrong.
-
Would you give me any good advice to where to start dissembling the bike?
I just hope I don’t need to dissemble the whole bike.
Thanks
Fede
-
maybe this photo explains better, looks like same
thanks
fede
(https://i.ibb.co/vL24dks/Whats-App-Image-2023-01-07-at-08-11-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vL24dks)
They are un molested.
-
To swap out the TB's easily, Take off tank, battery and whatever inthe way to move airbox back a few inches. Then undo all the bands on the rubbers for & aft of TB's. Take out 3 manifold bolts. Use heat gun to warm rubbers cause they have to come off. Move airbox back if you need more room. I would unplug injectors or take them out to be sure no damage happens. 2 screws under rail or on top hold bodies, each TB has 2. Have to unscrew the throttle cables too, good luck.
Pages 25 & 50 in parts book.
-
Check this.. very very interesting. Just bought another set of TB.
One seems to be much more closed than the other one. Both of them are showing yellow marks still in place.
Which one to trust?
(https://i.ibb.co/17RR5MZ/46804870-F607-45-AA-889-A-DFCAD34-AF78-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/17RR5MZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/jyx8JXz/3-AC38-EE0-1738-4-D80-A57-E-A34-CC44208-D1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jyx8JXz)
One seems to be 0.13mm and the other it’s not even fitting 0.10mm.
-
Trust the one set the closest. Is the 1st set you bought closer? How about the ones on the bike?
I wouldn't think they would be offset.
-
There’s a slight difference in between both but some similarities.
Lino rod is the same length. 178-179mm. I measured the distance of right throttle bodie from the outside of the intake to the lowest point of the Choke plate and they are .2mm of difference. I think by the light we can see the difference very easily.
The one I bought first is looking in a very good condition. There was some combustion marks inside but after a light wipe they were off. The second one is looking in a filthy condition.
(https://i.ibb.co/k1QSP3p/16-D9-E166-7517-44-D8-BC5-F-26-D64-C1933-CD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k1QSP3p)
(https://i.ibb.co/gZ6pVXR/1-F41-FEF5-C261-4-D45-9-FC7-CD0160163-CB3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gZ6pVXR)
(https://i.ibb.co/10PyDJh/65-B3-CBEC-016-A-4-C0-A-8-B96-41-B2-D6-E730-F9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/10PyDJh)
Both have same play in the choke plate up and down.
-
Let me preface this by saying that I have absolutely no insider knowledge of HOW the set the throttle bodies at the MG factory, or if supplier sets them at their factory and ships them in pairs.
That said, I've always been under the impression they are not set based on direct physical throttle plate measurement, but on air-flow rate of both in order to compensate for any small physical differences in the bores themselves.
If that's true then I would think it would be possible to observe or measure small differences in the positioning of the throttle body plates. Though I too would probably try the set with the smallest measurable difference.
-
Hello to everyone! posting after a while of thinking...
I've been trying to swap the TB:
(https://i.ibb.co/cbzYwrH/Whats-App-Image-2023-02-02-at-21-02-20-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cbzYwrH)
(https://i.ibb.co/Gs9rPzx/Whats-App-Image-2023-02-02-at-21-02-20.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gs9rPzx)
(https://i.ibb.co/1GXcWzs/Whats-App-Image-2023-02-02-at-21-02-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1GXcWzs)
I removed the tank, side covers, rear fender and a plastic in order to remove the air filter back.
I released the air filter screws in order to have more room and I achieved removing air filter to TB hoses.
However after long trying, I am very far away in order to make enough room for sliding the TB out. Even in the case that i manage to remove the engine intake hoses,
I am afraid of not having enough space on top of the TB's in order to remove them. I would like to slide the air box even further but cables are between air box and frame.
I'll post some photos maybe somebody can share with me any advice on how to get this sucker off the bike :p. I would like to do this procedure very carefully so i am not harming the unmolested TB.
-
Now that you have a little room, see if you can pull them out of rubber sleeves to manifold. You could take out injectors from manifolds, 3 bolts that hold them on heads, then pull them forward out of rubber sleeves. Take cables off the top by loosening up adjuster for opening cable. OR take cables off the bar. 2 screws under bar on bottom hold each TB in place. If you don't have a heat gun for rubbers use a hair dryer.
Silicone spray helps.
Push rubber back off intake manifolds, then take manifolds off head and remove. Now you have enough room to remove rubber from TB's. Don't forget to disconnect the choke cable underneath.