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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: SLDMRossi on March 13, 2023, 09:45:17 AM

Title: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: SLDMRossi on March 13, 2023, 09:45:17 AM

https://www.rideapart.com/news/656832/harley-davidson-x350-qj-motor-china/

Steven Rossi

Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 13, 2023, 10:22:21 AM
Riding Academy only in the US apparently: https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_TqvTRY-C0&feature=shares
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on March 13, 2023, 10:48:56 AM
Katy bar the door
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: JJ on March 13, 2023, 11:04:12 AM
The "DO-RAG" crowd will have a field day, when / if these bikes hit the USA shores... :laugh: :grin: :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh: :wink:
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 13, 2023, 11:13:07 AM
The "DO-RAG" crowd will have a field day, when / if these bikes hit the USA shores... :laugh: :grin: :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh: :wink:

How do you keep your helmet liner from having to be washed constantly?
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: guzzisteve on March 13, 2023, 11:27:13 AM
Riding Academy only in the US apparently: https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_TqvTRY-C0&feature=shares
Nice crash bars, speaks "Stay Away From Me"
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Alfetta on March 13, 2023, 11:43:44 AM
I didn't watch the videos, but my daughter took the Harley academy training on a street 500, and now it looks like the "X" is going to take that roll..
I find it ironic, that a company wanting to bring in new riders are using bikes that they don't sell to train on.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 13, 2023, 02:55:53 PM
I didn't watch the videos, but my daughter took the Harley academy training on a street 500, and now it looks like the "X" is going to take that roll..
I find it ironic, that a company wanting to bring in new riders are using bikes that they don't sell to train on.

New CEO. He is more about the shareholders than the brand.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Canuck750 on March 13, 2023, 05:44:06 PM
I like where this is going, a Chinese company buys the name to Benelli, a former Italian maker of some wonderful motorcycles and then brands them as a Harley Davidson to offer a small displacement bike to the American market……. In 1960 Harley Davidson buys 50% of Aermacchi, rebrands the small displacement 250cc Ala Azzurra as a Sprint and the rest is history.
Nothing is new. 
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 13, 2023, 07:45:42 PM
I like where this is going, a Chinese company buys the name to Benelli, a former Italian maker of some wonderful motorcycles and then brands them as a Harley Davidson to offer a small displacement bike to the American market……. In 1960 Harley Davidson buys 50% of Aermacchi, rebrands the small displacement 250cc Ala Azzurra as a Sprint and the rest is history.
Nothing is new.

They supposedly aren't going to sell them to the public so we will have to wait and see. 

I guess since Polaris has been successful resurrecting the name Indian, and the Indians are poised to be successful resurrecting the name BSA, it makes sense for the Chinese to resurrect storied brand names to bring to market instead of long Chinese sur names.   
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: s1120 on March 14, 2023, 05:41:38 AM
I gotta say its really not a bad looking bike. I would think that  a small bike in the US they would really need to lower that seat height a little though. Looks like lots of room to do that though. Really too bad that HD culture over the past 50 years has been to run off all that don't ride the "real bike" big twin.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 14, 2023, 06:29:16 AM
I gotta say its really not a bad looking bike. I would think that  a small bike in the US they would really need to lower that seat height a little though. Looks like lots of room to do that though. Really too bad that HD culture over the past 50 years has been to run off all that don't ride the "real bike" big twin.

I keep hearing “Harley Culture “. Mostly by those who don’t ride a Harley. There are Harley riders from all walks of life. There are those in any group that piss on those that don’t ride the right bike. When I joined Wild Guzzi it was the If you don’t ride a big block you don’t really belong here group. I was wondering about the Guzzi Culture.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Jack Straw on March 14, 2023, 08:13:37 AM
Oh great!!!!  Another HD scheme to appeal to more riders.  Wake me when this goes kaput :embarassed:
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: kballowe on March 14, 2023, 10:40:11 AM
What this Harley thread needs is some Harley pictures.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51254036961_dda9141d0b_k.jpg)
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 14, 2023, 12:35:57 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/44vZzXq/IMG-1277.jpg) (https://ibb.co/44vZzXq)
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Moparnut72 on March 14, 2023, 04:35:24 PM
Dyna or Deuce?
kk
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Alfetta on March 14, 2023, 04:58:39 PM
here are a couple of Harley snaps !

(https://i.ibb.co/6NwTDBy/HD1.png) (https://ibb.co/YbQ1fZN)
(https://i.ibb.co/7Jk3Xjm/HD2.png) (https://ibb.co/zh63rQv)
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: bad Chad on March 14, 2023, 05:13:39 PM
I keep hearing “Harley Culture “. Mostly by those who don’t ride a Harley. There are Harley riders from all walks of life. There are those in any group that piss on those that don’t ride the right bike. When I joined Wild Guzzi it was the If you don’t ride a big block you don’t really belong here group. I was wondering about the Guzzi Culture.

That's not true.  I have been on this board for well over 20 years.  As I recall WG started prior to the introduction of the Breva 750, the first of the modern small blocks.   And since that beginning through today the culture of this board certainly didn't piss on small block owners at any point.  Sure there may have been an individual or two who had a stick up their keister, but it certainly wasn't the culture here.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 14, 2023, 05:18:45 PM
That's not true.  I have been on this board for well over 20 years.  As I recall WG started prior to the introduction of the Breva 750, the first of the modern small blocks.   And since that beginning through today the culture of this board certainly didn't piss on small block owners at any point.  Sure there may have been an individual or two who had a stick up their keister, but it certainly wasn't the culture here.

Same can be said of Harley riders which was my point.  The loudest get the attention.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: bad Chad on March 14, 2023, 06:23:04 PM
Agreed. Except when it comes to HD riders we all know it’s true.

Ahh, come on, I’m just haven fun.  The world if full of good stand up guys who happen to prefer HD.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: kballowe on March 14, 2023, 07:05:44 PM
More Harley pictures


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52148504096_d7a47ae3e8_b.jpg)
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 14, 2023, 07:48:14 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/Lv2W7X1/79680-A56-BA5-B-4-AA6-A288-6-DACF1859-ABE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lv2W7X1)
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Ratso88 on March 15, 2023, 07:23:23 AM
As previously mentioned by someone else: I think it's a good looking bike.

Aside from the cultural resistance, for an entry into motorcycling it will probably do the job just fine.

I wouldn't expect there to be any real show stopping mechanical or electrical issues.

We, the Western World, did our best to bring Chinese Manufacturing, Quality Control and Design into the modern world.
Seems the Communist Chinese are proving to be not too bad at Capitalism.

I say give it some time.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: steven c on March 15, 2023, 07:29:50 AM
 Another Harley owned brand that didn't end well. My 06
(https://i.ibb.co/hL2mQkV/IMG-0704.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hL2mQkV)
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: chuck peterson on March 15, 2023, 08:17:56 AM
So Harley is introducing new riders to smaller, lightweight small displacement easy to maneuver motorcycles to learn on?

That just doesn’t sound like a proper thought out business plan to me…..
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 15, 2023, 10:42:01 AM
So Harley is introducing new riders to smaller, lightweight small displacement easy to maneuver motorcycles to learn on?

That just doesn’t sound like a proper thought out business plan to me…..

At the same time they are giving tours of the dealership. Showing how they have gatherings and guided rides, membership into the Harley Owners Group, and higher end models to aspire to own.

Most who take training at a Harley dealer probably already have an interest in cruisers, or they would seek out other MSF trainers.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Alfetta on March 15, 2023, 11:35:34 AM
So Harley is introducing new riders to smaller, lightweight small displacement easy to maneuver motorcycles to learn on?

That just doesn’t sound like a proper thought out business plan to me…..

I think it is a great plan, as learning on a full size hog can be intimidating, however HD needs to offer a model that is a "lightweight small displacement easy to maneuver motorcycle".  But this would put them in direct competition with the likes of Royal Endfield and Honda.
And IMHO this is exactly what HD needs to do, get a good bike at a good price, and steel some of RE's success.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: MMRanch on March 15, 2023, 11:42:42 AM
Hay guys

Who has gone through the "Wheels Through Time" place in NC.

Looking at all the old Harleys from the time while Harley was   gaining  in popularity made me wonder : "Why did they get so Big and Heavy" ? 

Those early models look like fun to ride machines .    It could be Harley is Returning to their roots ?

Bigger is not Better , it's just Bigger .
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: JJ on March 15, 2023, 12:50:37 PM
C'mon now....something for everyone!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :bow: :thumb: :cool: :boozing:


(https://i.ibb.co/ns41KQ4/Screen-Shot-2023-03-15-at-10-49-31-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/ns41KQ4)
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Dr. Enzo Toma on March 15, 2023, 03:46:10 PM
Tarrifs kept Harley from having to improve their product, until they didn't.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Vagrant on March 15, 2023, 03:57:56 PM
It will be interesting to see how many classes get canceled because of "lack of parts".
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: MMRanch on March 15, 2023, 05:53:31 PM
Ha Vagrant ,  them China folks never run out of parts !   :smiley:
.........

I've had a couple of the china ATV's , they're good as the japan machines they are copied from .   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:   
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 15, 2023, 07:06:32 PM
Tarrifs kept Harley from having to improve their product, until they didn't.

Dude!  That Tariff ended in 1988!  That was 35 years ago!  LOL!

It started in 1983 and only applied to bikes over 700cc.  During the first year of the tariff, the tariff was set at 45%, then dropping to 39.4% in the second year.[2] In the third year, the rate dropped to 24.4%, then 19.4% in the fourth year and 14.4% in the fifth year.

Talk about stuck in the past. 
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: MMRanch on March 15, 2023, 09:00:39 PM
   
I knew a guy who had one of the older solid mounted Sportsters , well for some reason I never could get him to cruise along over 65mph ???

In 2004 when Harley started rubber mounting the Sportster .   So I got one of the 1200 Roadsters , and kept it for a few years.    It was a likeable machine till it broke. 




Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Dr. Enzo Toma on March 16, 2023, 12:58:26 PM
Dude!  That Tariff ended in 1988!  That was 35 years ago!  LOL!

It started in 1983 and only applied to bikes over 700cc.  During the first year of the tariff, the tariff was set at 45%, then dropping to 39.4% in the second year.[2] In the third year, the rate dropped to 24.4%, then 19.4% in the fourth year and 14.4% in the fifth year.

Talk about stuck in the past. 

That's all it took to establish market and cultural dominance. It's only been in very recent years that Harley has largely invested in dramatically new motorcycle designs and engineering (Rev Max engine) under the current management. Just look how that is going over with the Sportster crowd lol

It's not all in the distant past either, see the EU tariff deal that benefited HD just last year.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: MMRanch on March 16, 2023, 08:27:33 PM
Didn't Harley drop the Sportster line ?     

It seems to me that when the in-line / air cooled V-Twin was designed the HP to displacement ratio was very low compared to modern designs.
So
Its no wonder that a HEAT problem might hold the design back a little ,
But
Harleys real problem might be the price ?
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Shorty on March 16, 2023, 09:49:26 PM
Didn't Harley drop the Sportster line ?     

It seems to me that when the in-line / air cooled V-Twin was designed the HP to displacement ratio was very low compared to modern designs.
So
Its no wonder that a HEAT problem might hold the design back a little ,
But
Harleys real problem might be the price ?

I don't keep a finger to the pulse of the HD market, but I do know that many older HD (and other full size bike marques) riders are moving to smaller bikes. The R.E. web pages are full of aging riders who wanted a small, classic looking, inexpensive bike to continue the ride into dotage.  :grin:  Many express surprise at the amount of pure fun you can have with so little money on such a small machine.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Muzz on March 16, 2023, 10:46:32 PM
That's not true.  I have been on this board for well over 20 years.  As I recall WG started prior to the introduction of the Breva 750, the first of the modern small blocks.   And since that beginning through today the culture of this board certainly didn't piss on small block owners at any point.  Sure there may have been an individual or two who had a stick up their keister, but it certainly wasn't the culture here.

I started here in 2004 Chad, with my 2003 Breva. Back then, there was a separate smallblock section. There was a bit of sneering, mainly because they offered a low seat option for ladies, which earned it the title a "ladies bike". The term "grenade" attached to some of the earlier models didn't help. A few riders did get one for their womenfolk, and every now and then one would take"the wife's bike" to scoot down to the shops or a short trip. They found that they are a barrel of fun, and started going the long way home. After that, it wasn't long before the culture changed as more found it did a pretty competent job of all kinds of riding, and the later designed smallblocks became accepted. So much so that it was the smallblocks that kept the marque in business.

I still have the same bike, and it still puts a smile on my dial.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 17, 2023, 08:12:42 AM
That's all it took to establish market and cultural dominance. It's only been in very recent years that Harley has largely invested in dramatically new motorcycle designs and engineering (Rev Max engine) under the current management. Just look how that is going over with the Sportster crowd lol

It's not all in the distant past either, see the EU tariff deal that benefited HD just last year.

Well, I didn't buy my first Harley until 2016.  They were the best value in a full size touring bike to replace my Vulcan Voyager.  I have only owned bikes from their touring line. 

Not everyone wants liquid cooled engines.  Four out of the five bikes in my garage are air/oil cooled.  I also don't need more than 50 HP in a bike.  Yes, I have owned bikes up to 160 HP, but rarely revved them higher than the 50 hp RPMs. 
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: kballowe on March 17, 2023, 08:52:45 AM
Well, I didn't buy my first Harley until 2016. 


1981 for me.  A 1980 Sportster.  I also had a 1978 Yamaha 650 Special at the time.  The Yamaha was much easier to kick.   LOL
Since then.... three more Sortsters, five Dyna's, three Road Kings, and now on our third Heritage Softail.  Oh, and a Fat Boy.

 :bike-037: :bike-037: :bike-037:
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Dr. Enzo Toma on March 17, 2023, 11:21:23 AM
The Sportster updates bumped the starting price up a whopping $7,400 USD for a now very complicated and still heavy bike that just barely beats the Indian FTR in performance while costing $2,800 more in MSRP. For anyone who doesn't need that type of performance or isn't dead set on paying for a brand, may as well buy a fleet of Royal Enfields instead  :wink:
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: john fish on March 18, 2023, 06:10:36 AM
Didn't Harley drop the Sportster line ?     

It seems to me that when the in-line / air cooled V-Twin was designed the HP to displacement ratio was very low compared to modern designs.
So
Its no wonder that a HEAT problem might hold the design back a little ,
But
Harleys real problem might be the price ?

I looked at the Harley site not long ago.  They are offering 8 year loans at 12% interest.   :shocked:  Holey and moley.

Personally, I like the looks of a classic Harley but none of the current models appeal to me aesthetically.  The new Sportster replacement is an abomination. 
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Dr. Enzo Toma on April 01, 2023, 07:33:01 PM
Sat on one today, not sure how it rides but it's definitely a learner friendly size and weight! I bet the Harley-Davidson Rider Academies are getting real tired of having to buy small fleets of the Buell Blast, HD Street, and now this little X 350. Speedo goes to 130 mph, that's a lot of gauge!


(https://i.ibb.co/0XxLWp9/PXL-20230401-165846691.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XxLWp9) (https://i.ibb.co/ys74sS3/PXL-20230401-165905054.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ys74sS3) (https://i.ibb.co/d0nsbTs/PXL-20230401-165910032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d0nsbTs) (https://i.ibb.co/LNRcFNr/PXL-20230401-165926410.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNRcFNr) (https://i.ibb.co/2PwnJK1/PXL-20230401-165950567.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2PwnJK1) (https://i.ibb.co/3pXNLPv/PXL-20230401-170019095.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3pXNLPv) (https://i.ibb.co/qmxN205/PXL-20230401-170036453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qmxN205) (https://i.ibb.co/FsQrjWb/PXL-20230401-165915769.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FsQrjWb)
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on April 02, 2023, 07:55:38 AM
I looked at the Harley site not long ago.  They are offering 8 year loans at 12% interest.   :shocked:  Holey and moley.

Personally, I like the looks of a classic Harley but none of the current models appeal to me aesthetically.  The new Sportster replacement is an abomination.

That must be for the lower credit score individuals who have to have a new Harley. 
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: twowheeladdict on April 02, 2023, 07:57:42 AM
Sat on one today, not sure how it rides but it's definitely a learner friendly size and weight! I bet the Harley-Davidson Rider Academies are getting real tired of having to buy small fleets of the Buell Blast, HD Street, and now this little X 350. Speedo goes to 130 mph, that's a lot of gauge!


What makes you say that?  I was at my local dealer this past week and they still have the "Street" in their academy and will replace with the new X350 as the bikes require replacing.  They are not being forced to just change bikes. 
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: bad Chad on April 02, 2023, 08:29:10 AM
Muzz, I don’t think Terr was ever a separate section for small blocks on this site.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Dr. Enzo Toma on April 02, 2023, 03:57:25 PM
What makes you say that?  I was at my local dealer this past week and they still have the "Street" in their academy and will replace with the new X350 as the bikes require replacing.  They are not being forced to just change bikes.

The staff said they had to buy the X350RA models for the 2023 year and retire their Streets. I didn't ask for more details, but imagine that may be in their Rider Academy contract with HD.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Muzz on April 04, 2023, 06:34:53 AM
Muzz, I don’t think Terr was ever a separate section for small blocks on this site.

Definitely was. Always far more postings in the big block section. Would have been in 2004 Chad. One of the best things that happened was when the two sections merged. The smallblocks lost their "junior" status when that happened and riders found that the Breva was actually a very capable machine.
Title: Re: New Harley Line Built on Benelli 302...
Post by: Canuck750 on April 20, 2023, 11:16:35 PM
https://www.advrider.com/harley-davidsons-chinese-built-x500-debuts-at-shanghai-auto-show/?utm_medium=email&tum_campaign=newsletter-04%e2%80%9320-2023&utm_source=newsletter

500cc version of the Chinese Harley Davidson unveiled and it might come to North America