Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on April 03, 2023, 11:48:38 AM
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Back in the mid 70's, I discovered North Face outdoor products. I bought a down vest and a down sleeping bag that has survived to this day. I bought their products because of their great design and excellent quality. In 78, I bought a BMW R90S and rode it until 1986 when I opted for a BMW K75. I was very much an enthusiast of BMW and so I started creating my own designs for BMW T-shirts and my wife and I traveled to many BMW rallies around the country. From 1979 to 1989, the BMW enthusiast at the rallys were very much like todays Moto Guzzi riders at Guzzi rallys that i've been to. I also bought a used BMW 528i car back then because of it's quality and drivability.
Today, both North Face and BMW automobiles have become very much status symbols. Not quite sure about BMW motorcycles. Moto Guzzi's are still, in my opinion, still an enthusiast product and I hope it stays that way.
Are there any other products that have gone from the enthusiast to status symbols?
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It’s not a specific brand name product, but I’ll add offal & traditionally less desirable (aka cheaper) cuts of meat to the list.
As a young apprenticing chef 30+ yrs ago, we learned how to make a lot of high quality but often obscure traditional dishes with things that were more “rustic” than premium cuts like prime rib and tenderloin that most people sought. Lots of stock work, buying bones and carcasses for cheap if we didn’t produce via fabrication enough in house. It was a great education and good profit margins.
Now, chicken backs at the supermarket were almost $2/lb on Friday, real bones cost even more ($4/lb at local farmers market for beef bones today) and all of those previously ick-factor meats have been discovered by every hipster who wants to shake a pan. Prices are nuts. Cheap meat was often 1/10 the cost of expensive meat. Now it’s often only 1/3 to 1/4 the cost. Not cool….
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I wonder what the percentage of North Face clothing wearers know the significance of the name? I am thinking about 1% if lucky. Not a scientific estimate of course. :laugh:
I have asked a few wearers of the garb over the years and received "deer in the headlights" in return.
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I think I next time I’m in the parking lot of and see a person getting out of a BMW, I’ll ask them…” what do the letters BMW stand for?”
In fact, several of us should do that and get back on here with the answers we get!
Or as the old joke goes… A rider gets off of his BMW motorcycle next to a BMW driver and says “Wow, BMW now makes cars too? “
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In the late 70's when BMW cars were starting to achieve notoriety as status symbols I was dismounting my R90/6 a newer BMW pulled up parking next to me. As the younger female driver was getting out she spotted the BMW roundel on my gas tank. With a look of disgust on her face she said to me "When did BMW start making motorcycles?" My response "1926". I'll never forget the look on her face.
kk
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I think I next time I’m in the parking lot of and see a person getting out of a BMW, I’ll ask them…” what do the letters BMW stand for?”
In fact, several of us should do that and get back on here with the answers we get!
Or as the old joke goes… A rider gets off of his BMW motorcycle next to a BMW driver and says “Wow, BMW now makes cars too? “
That's easy: Bring More Wallet
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I think this is common for anything that establishes notoriety for its quality. Patagonia products were for outdoor enthusiasts, and they try to dissuade the fashion following since it conflicts with their ethos but you're still going to see people indoors in an office or sales setting wearing Patagonia puffy vests. Carhartt used to just be normal heavy duty workwear, now they have a fashion line called Carhartt WIP 🙄 Melanzana out of Leadville, CO make micro fleece hoodies that skiers, snowboarders, and high altitude hikers made popular since they're warm and breathable - now the company can't keep up with demand, they have to hold a lottery and use appointments to let people come into their store to buy them, and people sell the hoodies for nearly double their retail price online to buyers elsewhere in the USA and abroad who've just got to be buying them as a status symbol of the brand since there are many other similar products on the market for less cost.
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Pendleton shirts. This album cover started it.
(https://i.ibb.co/kgZX6SS/B7-AFC4-F7-FE3-B-4-F2-D-B647-4-E58693-E921-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kgZX6SS)
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I was gonna say Carhartt... My friend started importing their stuff into the UK in the 80s because it was durable and aesthetic (particularly on building sites...) in the 90s it exploded in the wannabe hip hop world and then everywhere else.
But yes, these days so many brands start off as makers of quality, useful, durable products and then become nothing but yet another purveyer of made to a price disposable rubbish trading on a name that once meant quality. Now I come to think of it, for example pretty much every motorcycle or car company today??
Buy from almost any brand and compare it with what they were selling 20 years ago, cheap rubbish abounds.
Hang on, I think with this post I officially became middle aged.
:thumb:
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LL Bean boots come to mind. To your point Clint, I miss cheap skirt and chuck.
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Craftsman tools _used to have a very high rating. I have a socket set that I b ought when I was 18 and now 62 years later it is still perfect. Poor dads that had sons usually had tools missing because they were not returned. Later Craftsmen stuff is mainly crap.
Tex
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Indeed, how long before Aerostich falls victim?
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Timberland reached that sort of status over here, but have been surpassed by others. Not sure did they sell out to LL Bean? We don't see much of LL Bean here but many years back I purchased quite a few items when in the US.
I saved up and bought a pair of Timby boots when nobody had hear of the brand and wore them everywhere, they lasted 6 years plus and were never off my feet.
Then all the clothing etc: and the brand exploded, quality was reasonable but the prices WOW!!
I still have a pair of Timbie boots that I wear from time to time, but the quality is nowhere near the first pair (which I got 50+ years back) and technology in footwear has also probably helped kill them off.
When I put on my first after break in they felt like slippers, the most recent pair feel like diver's boots, more to do with superior technology surpassing them
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I’m with ya . I just gave up my 30+ Yr. MOA membership! Sold my R1200ra a few years ago . I still attend a few BMW rallies , mostly the smaller ones , without corporate support. I’ve watched the bikes & the organization change over the years to somthing I hardly recognize.
In 17 I purchased a leftover V7II . I’m riding more than before , that small block put the fun back in riding , at least for me . Also the Guzzi rally’s have always been notorious for their food , yumm .
So , I bought another small block , a 21 centanario ! Two stress relieving , fun generating bikes capable of hauling me & my camping kit !
As far as gear goes Dickies is my main haberdasher & Cabella’s bargain cave , when needed
See ya down the road!
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Not yet a status symbol but still a great product. Chippewa Boots.
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Volvo….definitely. Growing up with three 122S, a 145 and a 245..these were just workhorses. Nowadays Volvos are definitely upscale!
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Volvo….definitely. Growing up with three 122S, a 145 and a 245..these were just workhorses. Nowadays Volvos are definitely upscale!
Bought a used Volvo 164E (top of the line) in1976. Some driver rammed the left rear panel. Collision repair shop said they’d never seen such thick steel on a car!
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Herman Survivors.
I had a pair of these in high school. They lasted me through my time in the
Air Force and beyond. I abused the pooh out of them and finally killed 'em after more than
a decade.
No replacements available - just cheap Chinese crap at WalMart now.
-Stretch
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It's funny how you guys changed the intent of the post switching from status symbol to issues of quality.
I'm going to say the good ol' pick up truck. Used to be a utilitarian vehicle the few people needed. If you had one it's because you hauled stuff, pulled stuff, did hard work. Now every other driveway seemingly has one, it's a land yacht with every seemingly possible convenience and amenity. $70K plus! I include myself in this vain group. LOL.
-AJ
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It's funny how you guys changed the intent of the post switching from status symbol to issues of quality.
I'm going to say the good ol' pick up truck. Used to be a utilitarian vehicle the few people needed. If you had one it's because you hauled stuff, pulled stuff, did hard work. Now every other driveway seemingly has one, it's a land yacht with every seemingly possible convenience and amenity. $70K plus! I include myself in this vain group. LOL.
-AJ
Amen on this... I actually need a truck and can't find one suitable because they are all luxury cruisers with $40k worth of stuff I dont need tacked on... not to mention the sizes are just comical
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BMW what they make cars too slogan. Right after 911 like 2 weeks I was scheduled to teach a class in Atlanta, I was told I had no options as the class was fully booked and everything was scheduled. So I’m standing in line to board the plane and I notice 3 Arab looking guys in line behind me,speaking a foreign language, after a few deep breaths and sphincter relaxing exercises I noticed one of the young foreigners had that slogan on his T shirt, which allowed me to strike up a conversation in English and we had a good conversation about bikes, they even knew about Guzzi’s which really helped me relax more and get on that plane.
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For me, whenever a product brings in a profit many times over what “competitors” in the marketplace bring in as profit they are “status symbols”.
Example: If a Chevy returns a profit of 20%, and BMW returns a profit of 20% and provides greater performance, reliability, etc for the increased price point then that is not a status symbol. If they now make 50% profit, or charge a higher price with no increase in performance, reliability, etc. then they are a status symbol.
Great marketing departments help create status symbols.
Look at Apple ‘i’ products. Back in the day with IZOD and Polo. Levi etc.
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It's funny how you guys changed the intent of the post switching from status symbol to issues of quality.
I'm going to say the good ol' pick up truck. Used to be a utilitarian vehicle the few people needed. If you had one it's because you hauled stuff, pulled stuff, did hard work. Now every other driveway seemingly has one, it's a land yacht with every seemingly possible convenience and amenity. $70K plus! I include myself in this vain group. LOL.
-AJ
I think most watch guys would agree that Rolex has gone from high quality tool watch to status symbol.
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Belstaff jackets!!
…bought 1st one of mine at a Ducati shop in 1980….for $100 bucks and I didn’t eat for a week….
Today, I believe there’s a version that cost too much..
https://www.belstaff.com/us/men/waxed-jackets/flash-trialmaster-jacket-black-neon-yellow
$650!
(https://i.ibb.co/TPWXfJC/16-D06-F52-EE6-E-4422-AB51-7-CF9-A111-E14-B.webp) (https://ibb.co/TPWXfJC)
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I for one have no idea what North Face clothing is about or what it means or if it means anything and I really don't care. My kid has had some North Face clothing but not because of the history but because she liked it. Looking it up its currently made in China, India, Bangladesh and Vietnam so I'm sure the quality is well below the price.
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This was my original thoughts on north face. Then I got an apex bionic jacket, a windbreaker for $125? Since that day 17 years ago I wear one of the 5 or so I now have daily. Underlayer in the cold, over when not, just that good a product. But the kicker is that everything they make is guaranteed for LIFE! Send it in, they fix it for free! I love finding discarded ones with broken zippers. On the flip side, I have never had a Columbia coat last more than a year without breaking the zipper.
But on the original subject, one certainly obnoxious status symbol: Prius!
I for one have no idea what North Face clothing is about or what it means or if it means anything and I really don't care. My kid has had some North Face clothing but not because of the history but because she liked it. Looking it up its currently made in China, India, Bangladesh and Vietnam so I'm sure the quality is well below the price.
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"Members Only" jackets......
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Jeep wrangler beats them all. 95% of the 4 doors have never even been on a dirt road and many are just too cute, or mean.
Up until 2005 they were mostly either work or play. 2007 on most are sold on snob appeal.
My CJ is long gone. Still have a TJ and JK. My initial opinion of the 2013 2 door JK on pavement, it is a lot like driving a mini van. When the going gets tough I prefer my TJ. Don't want to scratch the JK :smiley:
Don
PS never heard of North Face before this thread.
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Not far at all from North Face's origins in San Francisco, but over in Berkeley where we used to live there was a fabulous North Face outlet store where you could get "rejects" or imperfect products...usually was something extremely minor and not far away was the original Peet's Coffee.
That morphed from a local roaster to a nice few set of stores to worldwide coffee phenomenon.
Major Dickinson's and Sumatra still going strong 40 to 50 years after they started!! Now available in Nespresso capsules as well for your Peet's coffee fix!
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Jeep, BMW, Range Rover, Audi.
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EDDIE BAUER, founded in 1920 as a tennis racket repair shop, and expanded to fishing, hunting, and camping out of demand for quality. Eddie Bauer meant quality, whether he manufactured it or just endorsed it. The name Eddie Bauer meant high quality, but by the late 1980s it became fashion and status. Eddie retired in 1968 and by 1970 the company was sold to General Mills and became just another brand name for marketing.
I will routinely ask somebody that's dressed head to toe in EB gear if they know anything at all about Mr. Bauer...........cri ckets......just stupid.
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Its all called the GQ me too club.............. Its been around for a while. :laugh:
You have too be a critical human to see through all the rhetoric though and that means you have to be a 1 percenter amongst the the population.
Ciao
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Laguiole and Opinel french pocket knives. Went from traditional small mountain town production destined to the local livestock farmers to the catalog of Williams-Sonoma and other US fashion/gourmet outlets for mucho dineros.
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I think most watch guys would agree that Rolex has gone from high quality tool watch to status symbol.
It's the only luxury watch that 'non watch people' have ever heard of. Got a lot of money and think you need a watch? It must be a Rolex. Thats how we arrived at this artificial scarcity where the only way to get a Rolex is spend $200k on jewelry at your local dealer and polish their knob in hopes of getting an allotment... Or resort to the bottom-feeder grey/secondary dealers and pay 2-3x retail for a 1-15 year old used watch. Despite the fact the Rolex makes over a million watches a year, they are treated as if it's a truly artisan hand-made and exceedingly rare product. One of the greatest marketing success stories in human history. They have incredible production, but get to charge prices as if they are Fabergé eggs. They even sell out of their ugly/undesirable models, because a bunch of people who are on the 'wait list' (which doesnt really exist), will buy anything their dealer offers them in hopes of getting an allotment for one of the desirable models.
Meanwhile the desirable watches are the same old recycled designs with solid & workable (but not industry leading) tech. It's funny, they parallel Harley in many ways. Harley sells the same old stuff with minimal incremental improvements, but they are by no means cutting edge or more than middling performance in their category- but (some) people still plunk down top of the market prices because the brand has 'heritage' and has built tremendous name cachet.
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I'd say Porsche, but if it was only a "STATUS SYMBOL" I would have to sell mine. :evil: I am an anti status symbol crowd follower.....
In the beginning it was mostly an enthusiast audience that grew into a status symbol. I see Porsche as two car companies. One that still builds enthusiast oriented sports cars and SUV's, and now EV's. Fact is the Cayenne and now the Macan, and to a lesser degree the Panamera likely saved the brand. Many Panamera and SUV buyers are buying for the status and Marque.
The other day, someone mentoined that one of my buddies at work owns a Porsche. I said "He does?" I thought he had a BMW Convertible. They said "Yep, it's a Blue SUV" I laughed and said, NAH thats not a Porsche. A Porsche has mid or rear enginge, sometimes front, and only has 2 doors ;-)
I've been a member of the Porsche Club of America for about 15 years and am amazed how many enthusiasts track their cars regularly. It is a community made up of all walks of life, and most of the air cooled crowd would fit right in the Guzzi community. We wrench, swap parts, gather and work on each others cars, etc. NOT so much the later water cooled and current models.
Kinda makes me wonder if the trend of V7 and now incoming V100 new to the brand riders will be the same and pull Guzzi into more of the pop-culture 'status' thing you speak of?
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I couldn't figure out why my wife wanted a Jeep Grand Cherokee Long instead of a Dodge Durango, basically the same car. Now I know. :thumb:
kk
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I'd say Porsche, but if it was only a "STATUS SYMBOL" I would have to sell mine. :evil: I am an anti status symbol crowd follower.....
In the beginning it was mostly an enthusiast audience that grew into a status symbol. I see Porsche as two car companies. One that still builds enthusiast oriented sports cars and SUV's, and now EV's. Fact is the Cayenne and now the Macan, and to a lesser degree the Panamera likely saved the brand. Many Panamera and SUV buyers are buying for the status and Marque.
The other day, someone mentoined that one of my buddies at work owns a Porsche. I said "He does?" I thought he had a BMW Convertible. They said "Yep, it's a Blue SUV" I laughed and said, NAH thats not a Porsche. A Porsche has mid or rear enginge, sometimes front, and only has 2 doors ;-)
I've been a member of the Porsche Club of America for about 15 years and am amazed how many enthusiasts track their cars regularly. It is a community made up of all walks of life, and most of the air cooled crowd would fit right in the Guzzi community. We wrench, swap parts, gather and work on each others cars, etc. NOT so much the later water cooled and current models.
Kinda makes me wonder if the trend of V7 and now incoming V100 new to the brand riders will be the same and pull Guzzi into more of the pop-culture 'status' thing you speak of?
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Bulldog: Let's give the Boxster it's due. In my opinion, it was key in keeping Porsche a solvent company at a time when they were struggling.
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Timberland 100per cent! bought a pair the other day to replace a pair that served me extremely well over many years and wow... nothing like the same boot. mea culpa for shopping online and brand reputation.
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I loved North Face down jackets and vests, having worn them from the early 70s until the mid-80s, at which point they became too expensive. They were our "local" brand which was from "The City," AKA San Francisco. I was stylin' in my navy blue down jacket, Earth Shoes, and wedge haircut (Dorothy Hamil)!
They began in North Beach, SFO, and the north face of a mountain is shrouded in shade and known to be very cold. The word North can be factored into their name easily enough. Either way, thoughts of North Beach are making me hungry for some good Italian food, which is what it was, or might still be known for.
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The only North Face product I'd used prior to this winter was a tent that we used for a surveying job one summer on the north slope. It seemed well made and kept the rain and bugs out. Then this past year, my wife gave me a North Face hoody for Christmas or birthday, can't remember cause they're only a few weeks apart. It's certainly well made, a nice comfortable microfiber fleece, lots o' zippered pockets, and best of all, it fits me. Being taller than the average giraffe, I have to wonder who they used for a model.
As for poser bikes, I'd nominate any of the high end Ducatis, BMWs, or full dress Harleys and Indians. My orthopedic Dr had a fancy new BMW, as well as a Porsche and loaded F150. He bought a Norton Interstate just before he retired, so maybe that's the new poser bike? But they're all just for fun, one mans pride can be anothers poser, so just move along, don't think too much about it, or it'll make your head hurt.
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My favourite cold weather walking jacket is a Buffalo System from 2001. Navy blue, very plain. You wear them with nothing underneath. Used by mountain rescue teams in the UK, along with another brand, Slioch. Which you dont see many of either. Both not cool, not hip.
Theres a great essay by Peter Egan on the commodification of our pastime, where he says a motorcycle leather jacket used to really mean something. It meant you rode. And to stretch the analogy further, I grew up on the Central Coast of NSW and bodysurfed, boogie, and kneeboard surfed since I was 10 years old and that lifestyle/pastime was commodified early on. In the 70s all surf shops sold boards, knew about boards, and repaired boards. In the 80s shops sprang up that knew nothing about surfing; they were apparel stores!!! I went to a surf camp in Portugal in 2005 and out of the group of 8 guests only 2 could surf - me and "Tuna" :grin: the rest were complete beginners but 4 of them had boards that Kelly Slater would be happy to ride at small Pipeline! It was all about the image.....
Rant over! :azn:
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For me a “status symbol” is something that you acquire to say “I got it or did it because I can, even though it’s relatively pointless…”
I have done it with my Norge..Wire wheels
On my V85…Ohlins rear shock.
Both do nothing to enhance a rider of my capabilities experience, but I just wanted to…
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the price increase and quality decrease of the Levi 501 button fly jeans that I used to buy for $9 a pair at the PX at Ft Lewis in 1971!
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I loved North Face down jackets and vests, having worn them from the early 70s until the mid-80s, at which point they became too expensive. They were our "local" brand which was from "The City," AKA San Francisco. I was stylin' in my navy blue down jacket, Earth Shoes, and wedge haircut (Dorothy Hamil)!
They began in North Beach, SFO, and the north face of a mountain is shrouded in shade and known to be very cold. The word North can be factored into their name easily enough. Either way, thoughts of North Beach are making me hungry for some good Italian food, which is what it was, or might still be known for.
Coming from New England, Italian food and California never were heard in the same sentence. Until your post I didn't think there were Italians in California. :shocked:
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Coming from New England, Italian food and California never were heard in the same sentence. Until your post I didn't think there were Italians in California. :shocked:
Sonoma county, where I'm from, along with most of the Bay Area has a long and storied Italian history.
https://permitsonoma.org/divisions/planning/historicresources/sonomacountyhistory/theitaliancommunityofsantarosa1880-1945
https://www.adventuresofacarryon.com/geyserville-california-a-bit-of-italy-in-sonoma-wine-country/
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/lifestyle/proud-legacy-of-italian-winegrowers-in-sonoma-county/https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=North_Beach:_Little_Italy
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Bulldog: Let's give the Boxster it's due. In my opinion, it was key in keeping Porsche a solvent company at a time when they were struggling.
Indeed, and it initially put the Marque in a more accessible price point. Shame they have bumped the prices up very close to 911 billing.
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Status symbols, ha, ha. Not me. But it looks like I’m getting there since I’m parking my V100 in the garage, and leaving the Aston Martin out side in the weather.
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SCHOTTS MOTORCYCLE JACKETS.
Still made in the same old building in NYC.
I’ve got a 1984-86 model, made for the CHP.
I contacted Schotts and with a serial number in the right zipper pocket was given the entire history of my jacket.
They were unique in that they were ordered by the CHP without shoulder epaulette.
The leftovers were sold to leather dealers on the east coast.
Just a little history on one of the greatest motorcycle jackets in the world, IMHO.