Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Beowulf on April 24, 2023, 12:16:55 PM
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Ok so I maybe looking for a bike to commute(have fun while justifying it as practical with no logical reason) an hour each way over highway and coastal type areas.
I have used a v7 in this capacity rain or shine and I love it but am thinking fairings and carrying capacity is nice. I’m in a struggle as the Mrs agrees that since motorcycle is my method of transport that a bike more suited to distance would be good.
I’m stuck between the v85 and v100. Thoughts appreciated.
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I'd pick V100 on looks alone! LOL
-AJ
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The V85 already has side cases for less money and is still a nice road bike, so if budget is a major consideration and you are more of an upright riding position enthusiast, the V85 may be the way, although the V100 is tempting me to consider trading my V85 in on one. I think I will stick with the V85 if only for budget reasons, but take a test ride before you decide. You may like one a great deal more than the other.
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depends, highway commute or dirt roads?
Who buys a motorcycle to be practical?
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depends, highway commute or dirt roads?
Who buys a motorcycle to be practical?
Most motorcycle riders on the planet.
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I’d say it depends on how fast you wanna go, which type of cafés you want to frequent, whether you are the curmudgeon air-cooled type, and how much money you’ve got ;)
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I'm not sure I can say that any of my motorcycles were very practical. I used to commute 30-60 miles daily for work in the oil-lands of Texas on a XL175. I was not a smart young-un.
I'd go for the V100, only because I had a V85 for awhile. We just didn't bond the way I had envisioned.
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depends, highway commute or dirt roads?
Who buys a motorcycle to be practical?
Shhhhhh….. keep it down motorcycles are practical. I keep explaining they are the best mode of transportation to my wife. Whether that’s true or not it’s my story…..
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Personally I'm not a fan of the V100's appearance, I know I'm in the minority but those gold valve covers :shocked: And the bike's chunky middle and cut short, butt in the air, rear area gives an odd proportion more like something Japanese. The V85TT's upright riding position offers good visibility and with factory top-load panniers seems like it'd make a great commuter and all around motorcycle. But a V100 is more modern with more power everywhere. Either will work go with your heart.
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I'm sure they're both awesome.
I'd go with the one that presents the most garage appeal to you :thumb:
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Test ride both and then decide 👍
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tough choice. let us know what you decide. both are winners. one thing to consider, on the v85, i could buy a big butt ugly barn door of the front screen that keeps a great deal of weather and stuff off of me in colder weather. unless i am wrong and i frequently am, it would be difficult to get much larger of a screen to work with the existing bracketry on the v100.
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Practicality is a term that must be left in the car park at the dealer’s premises.
You pay 30,000 Australian dollars over here, for a machine that can carry one person realistically and slurps 4.4 - 5.5 litres/100 km.
Yesterday I took a trip in a Toyota Camry that was using 5.5 l/100 km in city driving…!
I did some math once regarding my Norge..
I get 20,000 km from a set of Michelins, that is a bit over $10 per tank of fuel, just for tyres..!
So…
If me and 3 mates want to go from Melbourne to Sydney that’s 1000 km. The Camry will use 50 litres of fuel at $2.00/litre so that gives $100 divided by 4, so that’s 25 bucks each.
If we go on the bikes and they’re all Norges for instance, we will each use 2 complete tanks at 500 km per tank, so that will be $92 each plus $20 for tyres so we are each up for $112 to do the same trip.
25 bucks versus 112…. :rolleyes:
No bike is practical unless you count parking costs.
They are an expensive, dangerous, alluring and addictive money pit, into which I will willingy and repeatedly jump and continue to flail around in gleefully.
But the term “practical”, is a literary abomination and has no place when discussing the wonderful world of motorbicycles.
Having said all of that…?
Get the Mandello and help Luigi buy his next Agusta helicopter…
(https://i.ibb.co/VTHcRfg/31-B11-BA1-A9-F2-4-FE3-AA54-D36-E0-BC717-B2.png) (https://ibb.co/VTHcRfg)
.He deserves it….
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Simple, buy both. Conundrum over.
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I own a V85 so I am biased. With a larger screen and a set of Hippo Hands I find the V85 to be a good, comfortable, long range ride even in winter. It comes with boxes. It is a pleasure on the highway or the twistys and in light dirt (think fire roads) You can pickup a very good conditioned used one for 9 or 10K. Once you add in freight and dealer prep, the V100s will run 18 to 20K. Pocket the cash and enjoy.
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Out of all the motorcycle friends I have, and that's a lot, I can name a very small number of them who own bikes for practical reasons on one hand with three fingers missing.
The V85 may offer easier routine maintenance with the screw and lock nut set-up.
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If possible, do as Sye suggest. Ride them both for as long as possible, that should go a very long way in telling you were you should be. Good luck!
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Simple, buy both. Conundrum over.
Genius
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If possible, do as Sye suggest. Ride them both for as long as possible, that should go a very long way in telling you were you should be. Good luck!
This
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I dont think there is enough real world data to really say yet, but overall I would lean towards the V85 as an overall commuter, but if lots of city and stop and go in the city is a possibility, the V100. A few years ago when I commuted on the V7ii Stornello TT, some of the bumper to bumper fun in Old Town Alexandria really cooked the oil, me and motor a few time. Water Cooled bikes are (normally) much better in these situation. Still, I'd go air cooled, because as was established in the other threat...... AIR COOLED IS BETTER :cool: :evil:
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Personally I would go with the V85 if only because the bike is tried and true. The V100 is too new to know if it has any quirks or problems that might come to light as owners begin to pile on the miles. I wouldn't consider either bike as having a lot of weather protection.
Also you're not going to find any good deals on the all new V100, but you can certainly find good deals on a new 2022 V85. And by good deal I mean getting the bike OTD for less than MSRP, which is possible right now with Guzzi's $1250 "performance credit" and possibly another $500 discount if you're a current or retired military member or first responder. And on top of that 5.99% financing for 60 months, which is a good rate right now.
Here in AZ you're not going to get a base model V100 for less than $18,000+ OTD with our high sales tax rate and outrages vehicle license tax/registration. And you're only going to get that price for one if you shop at one of the small AZ Guzzi dealers. If you try to buy it from one of the big dealers, Ride Now or Go AZ Motorcycles, add $2,000 to that $18,000 with all the BS fees they throw into that OTD price.
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depends, highway commute or dirt roads?
Who buys a motorcycle to be practical?
Most motorcycle riders on the planet.
Practicality is a term that must be left in the car park at the dealer’s premises.
You pay 30,000 Australian dollars over here, for a machine that can carry one person realistically and slurps 4.4 - 5.5 litres/100 km.
Yesterday I took a trip in a Toyota Camry that was using 5.5 l/100 km in city driving…!
I did some math once regarding my Norge..
I get 20,000 km from a set of Michelins, that is a bit over $10 per tank of fuel, just for tyres..!
So…
If me and 3 mates want to go from Melbourne to Sydney that’s 1000 km. The Camry will use 50 litres of fuel at $2.00/litre so that gives $100 divided by 4, so that’s 25 bucks each.
If we go on the bikes and they’re all Norges for instance, we will each use 2 complete tanks at 500 km per tank, so that will be $92 each plus $20 for tyres so we are each up for $112 to do the same trip.
25 bucks versus 112…. :rolleyes:
No bike is practical unless you count parking costs.
They are an expensive, dangerous, alluring and addictive money pit, into which I will willingy and repeatedly jump and continue to flail around in gleefully.
But the term “practical”, is a literary abomination and has no place when discussing the wonderful world of motorbicycles.
Having said all of that…?
Get the Mandello and help Luigi buy his next Agusta helicopter…
(https://i.ibb.co/VTHcRfg/31-B11-BA1-A9-F2-4-FE3-AA54-D36-E0-BC717-B2.png) (https://ibb.co/VTHcRfg)
.He deserves it….
To Hugo's post, I've stated the same here in the past
(though not as eloquently) and was countered immediately. I wasn't swayed..
I DO believe that, taking in overall world sales, more cycles ARE bought for practical reasons,
just not in the U.S (and apparently, Australia).
..but I think in this example, it still comes down to
"garage appeal". :afro:
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To Hugo's post, I've stated the same here in the past
(though not as eloquently) and was countered immediately. I wasn't swayed..
I DO believe that, taking in overall world sales, more cycles ARE bought for practical reasons,
just not in the U.S (and apparently, Australia).
..but I think in this example, it still comes down to
"garage appeal". :afro:
Ahhhh…Tarz.
We are the last of the true romantics, common sense be buggered. I was born an idiot, I’ve lived my life an idiot and I will die an idealistic idiot.
May it always be thus….
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OK, so having a lot of factures up in the air like what is your communite like, weather thats common, your likes, and fitment, long term reliability of the new v100.. I would be looking to the V85. The more upright seating for one. Lets you see, and be seen around other people on the road. Ease of adding more protection like hand guards, bigger sheld etc.. Long travel suspension with more aggressive tires for those wet sloppy, pot hole filled days. Big bags, and trunk easy to attach for cargo. And also pretty much easy to own, and work on. Its also cheaper, and its a bike that we know its good points, and bad.
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No bike is practical unless you count parking costs.
They are an expensive, dangerous, alluring and addictive money pit, into which I will willingy and repeatedly jump and continue to flail around in gleefully.
But the term “practical”, is a literary abomination and has no place when discussing the wonderful world of motorbicycles.
Geez, don't let your wives see THAT!!! :thewife: :thewife: :thewife:
I figured out one year that in fuel cost savings alone for my SR500 vs. the pickup, I could afford
to keep it and it would pay for itself.
I couldn't stretch those numbers to pay for the OTHER 6 of it's brethren in the garage....... :shocked: :laugh:
-Stretch
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try driving almost anywhere in the UK, motorcycles are certainly a practical option for dealing with the traffic. A good rain suit is a must obviously.
And don't even get me started on parking.
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Since I am more comfortable with a slightly forward lean when riding unless I have a rider backrest, I would go for the V100 for the commute you describe. I just rode 600 miles on the V85TT this past weekend and am going to have to change the ergonomics some. Gets me between the shoulders.
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I've I'm using a bike around town and for commuting, where I'm getting on and off frequently, a top priority is a lower seat height that makes swinging a leg over easier.
The ADVbikes with the bulky square panniers have never made the cut for me as commuters. Too awkward getting on and off the things.
Between these two, I'd pick a V100 and add 30L Hepco Becker panniers for the commute.
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Write down all the things you want/need than assess each bike against those.
V85TT: Rougher roads would favor the V85's longer/plusher suspension and larger front wheel. If you can't lane split the taller riding position would help with visibility. Available used as well as costing less new - proven reliability.
V100: Probably better weather protection. Narrower / lower and probably a better lane splitter. Brand new model = unknown reliability/issues. Can't take the shortcut across the neighbor's field.
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You’ll get pissed when those aerodynamic auto-adjusting fins decide to stop working or break off one day, lol. Save yourself the feels.
Seriously though, both bikes are eye-catching. The V100 will be able to overtake on the freeway more easily.
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Since I am more comfortable with a slightly forward lean when riding unless I have a rider backrest, I would go for the V100 for the commute you describe. I just rode 600 miles on the V85TT this past weekend and am going to have to change the ergonomics some. Gets me between the shoulders.
Is the bump still on your seat? I removed it and while the seat was pretty nice before I find it even more comfortable now because it allows me to move back an inch or so.
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Most motorcycle riders on the planet.
You're saying motorcycle are "practical"? really?
I see that this was already talked up.
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You’ll get pissed when those aerodynamic auto-adjusting fins decide to stop working or break off one day, lol. Save yourself the feels.
Seriously though, both bikes are eye-catching. The V100 will be able to overtake on the freeway more easily.
my guess is that you'll never notice those wings one way or another.
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You're saying motorcycle are "practical"? really?
Ok preparing to burned at the stake for this….. I have found for my situation motorcycles have indeed been a practical mostly reliable transportation tool.
I passionately love motorcycles so I’m no doubt biased. But the amount of initial investment is cheaper than most trucks and cars. For cost to performance a motorcycle works out to be a better deal for me.
I work and maintain my own stuff and that helps the cost considerably. In comparison to my mini Cooper the Moto Guzzi has cost far less to maintain.
Mini Cooper
Timing chain 300
Turbo 1500
Valve cover 250
2 sets of tires 1800
Brakes 250
Calalytic converter 300
Clutch 300
No labor costs I do it myself
I understand frequency is a thing so I will state this over a two year period.
Moto Guzzi
250 tires
Brake pads 75
Oil 250 ish?
Filter 50
Much easier to fix. Note I know this an unusual example, car tires last longer etc etc. but honestly despite the ecu hiccup the motorcycle works well for me.
To be fair my 88 blazer has been relatively cheap
1200 tires
100 oil
350 various fix it’s
150 brakes
Cost aside I would and will continue to ride motorcycles because I love them. No other practical reason. But a machine that I can maintain, fix and overall bond with is speaking to me. Guzzi fits that bill.
Leaning towards a v85. Looking at a different commute due to change in jobs. Will know more in a month. Appreciate all the points.
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I'll concede that bikes are more practical when parking is difficult and the rider needs to bypass congested traffic. So far as dollars and cents and flexibility, weather and the like, not so much.
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Ok preparing to burned at the stake for this….. I have found for my situation motorcycles have indeed been a practical mostly reliable transportation tool.
I passionately love motorcycles so I’m no doubt biased. But the amount of initial investment is cheaper than most trucks and cars. For cost to performance a motorcycle works out to be a better deal for me.
I work and maintain my own stuff and that helps the cost considerably. In comparison to my mini Cooper the Moto Guzzi has cost far less to maintain.
Mini Cooper
Timing chain 300
Turbo 1500
Valve cover 250
2 sets of tires 1800
Brakes 250
Calalytic converter 300
Clutch 300
No labor costs I do it myself
I understand frequency is a thing so I will state this over a two year period.
Moto Guzzi
250 tires
Brake pads 75
Oil 250 ish?
Filter 50
Much easier to fix. Note I know this an unusual example, car tires last longer etc etc. but honestly despite the ecu hiccup the motorcycle works well for me.
To be fair my 88 blazer has been relatively cheap
1200 tires
100 oil
350 various fix it’s
150 brakes
Cost aside I would and will continue to ride motorcycles because I love them. No other practical reason. But a machine that I can maintain, fix and overall bond with is speaking to me. Guzzi fits that bill.
Leaning towards a v85. Looking at a different commute due to change in jobs. Will know more in a month. Appreciate all the points.
Meh, you're cherry picking and fooling yourself. Which is fine. Do what makes you feel good.
But if you're looking at total costs - initial, wearable items, service, GEAR etc. Motorcycles are about passion not practicality.
You could get a cheap sedan new or almost new, and not do anything but change oil for 60-80k miles. Maybe eventually spend a few hundred dollars on brakes and tires.
In that same initial 60-80k miles your bike requires thousands in gear, 6-8 SETS of tires at $200-400 a set, more in accessories if you want to do things like carry stuff. And bottom line it will move at most 2 people at a time, so if you ever want/need to move 3 or more people, you double all your MC costs.
It's a losing proposition.
Sure you can justify it as an alternative to a car to offset a piece of the costs. But it'll never add up.
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I’d go with the V100 unless I was going to be doing fire roads and light off road on a regular basis. The authority of a larger engine and heavier drive components is attractive to me. That is if I still had fully functional legs. If you can still handle a larger machine, do it while you can.
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my guess is that you'll never notice those wings one way or another.
Were it not for the Goofy Orange background, I might agree :cool:
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The goofy orange background to the wings is a nod to the dayglow headlight surround on the Le Mans.I have to say that I don't like it either but...
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On an Italian bike it's pronounced Daygo, not Dayglow. Sorry, bad joke, but easy.
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I believe the wings can be turned off.
When it comes to commuting on a bike, new vs. used is also a consideration depending on your location and road congestion but because the author is giving these two options, I'd pick the v100. I commuted on my CX in NYC for 25+ years and never considered using my other bikes for any length of time due to road conditions, aggressive drivers and the possibility of the bike being knocked over due to braille parkers in the city. And it was very easy to split lanes on that bike. I did use the Norge for awhile but splitting lanes was difficult with the bags, removing one bag helped but I'd rather have both bags in case the bike was tipped over.
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Were it not for the Goofy Orange background, I might agree :cool:
Disable them…
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Is the bump still on your seat? I removed it and while the seat was pretty nice before I find it even more comfortable now because it allows me to move back an inch or so.
I use it to hold down the sheepskin pelt I'm shaping and shaving over time. I haven't ridden without the bump.
(https://i.ibb.co/zZsxCjB/20220715-213211062-i-OS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zZsxCjB)
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When it is on the bike is more comfortable but also higher for my legs.
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Were it not for the Goofy Orange background, I might agree :cool:
my meaning, it's out of your line of sight riding it, you have to look down to notice. They can be turned off and don't come on in Sports mode.
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Meh, you're cherry picking and fooling yourself. Which is fine. Do what makes you feel good.
But if you're looking at total costs - initial, wearable items, service, GEAR etc. Motorcycles are about passion not practicality.
You could get a cheap sedan new or almost new, and not do anything but change oil for 60-80k miles. Maybe eventually spend a few hundred dollars on brakes and tires.
In that same initial 60-80k miles your bike requires thousands in gear, 6-8 SETS of tires at $200-400 a set, more in accessories if you want to do things like carry stuff. And bottom line it will move at most 2 people at a time, so if you ever want/need to move 3 or more people, you double all your MC costs.
It's a losing proposition.
Sure you can justify it as an alternative to a car to offset a piece of the costs. But it'll never add up.
my next door neighbor came to that conclusion after riding 160,000 miles back and forth 50 miles one way on two different bikes. Ended up buying a used Corolla and no more bikes. He never rode for pleasure, just slogged to work rain or shine year round.
He said the main reason was the anger he was feeling at all the drivers out to kill him. Which is why 2 bikes. Teenager on cell phone pulled out on him and over the hood he went. Goodbye bike number 1 at 85,000 miles.
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my next door neighbor came to that conclusion after riding 160,000 miles back and forth 50 miles one way on two different bikes. Ended up buying a used Corolla and no more bikes. He never rode for pleasure, just slogged to work rain or shine year round.
He said the main reason was the anger he was feeling at all the drivers out to kill him. Which is why 2 bikes. Teenager on cell phone pulled out on him and over the hood he went. Goodbye bike number 1 at 85,000 miles.
Ironically, the American car culture is one of the reasons I’m experimenting not owning a car for a full year and sticking with the Guzzi and Beemer. I find myself loathing nearly every car these days— driving through red lights, not taking turns or letting people merge, not using turn signals, looking at their phones, etc—that I just don’t want to be a part of it anymore…(or so he says only 5 days into the experiment). Way, way too much entitlement out there, and not enough safety mindset in this privileged society.
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Ironically, the American car culture is one of the reasons I’m experimenting not owning a car for a full year and sticking with the Guzzi and Beemer. I find myself loathing nearly every car these days— driving through red lights, not taking turns or letting people merge, not using turn signals, looking at their phones, etc—that I just don’t want to be a part of it anymore…(or so he says only 5 days into the experiment). Way, way too much wntitlement out there, and not enough safety mindset in this world.
Anecdote inbound.
When I was in my 20's and just starting out in life I had just started working for Chilton Book Co.
I had a high mileage, beat-up Chevy Blazer (and a payment on it). I also had a 1.5 hour commute each way from just outside Lancaster County PA to the Radnor PA on the main line close to Philly.
A bunch of my co-workers were all motorcycle obsessed. I learned to ride, bought a cheap bike, then quickly decided I wanted a nice bike.
I bought my first new motor vehicle ever - a 1993 Harley 1200 Sporty.
I couldn't afford IT AND my Blazer. So I sold the Blazer and decided I'd go bike only.
Made it like 2-3 years.
Got caught in a snow storm and it took me hours to ride home one day.
Bought a cheap Yamaha 650 Special as my "winter beater bike" and rode that when there was too much ice on the roads.
I had a snow mobile suit, tried every possible method to keep my face shields from fogging (and they all failed), bought Widder electric gloves, still froze at times.
That last year I dropped the 650 like 3 separate times on black ice, one time just trying to get down my driveway.
Said, screw it, life is too short for this crap. Ran out and bought a cheap used Geo Tracker... kept the Harley.... hell, bought another shortly thereafter.
I have no need to try life without a car again.
Anyway, as to your disdain for cars. Sure, riding changed my driving for the better. But let's be real, I'm not going to avoid something that makes my life better just because some idiots use it. If I really tried to avoid that I'd be left with nothing.
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Anecdote inbound…
…That last year I dropped the 650 like 3 separate times on black ice, one time just trying to get down my driveway.
Said, screw it, life is too short for this crap. Ran out and bought a cheap used Geo Tracker... kept the Harley.... hell, bought another shortly thereafter.
I have no need to try life without a car again.
Anyway, as to your disdain for cars. Sure, riding changed my driving for the better. But let's be real, I'm not going to avoid something that makes my life better just because some idiots use it. If I really tried to avoid that I'd be left with nothing.
For sure it’ll be less convenient and at times downright miserable—and I very well may get completely fed up with the idea by this time next year—but I have a few things going at the moment: sidecar for winter use, extra bike for backup, working from home while living downtown and near a train station (no commuting), and a desire to occasionally challenge the norm—I once went an entire month without talking (likely to everyone’s relief). My life is already veering from the typical American status quo, so why not unleash more of the perceived restraints. Anyway…we’ll see. Back to that topic about the air-cooled Guzzi vs the liquid-cooled Guzzi with the breakable gills.
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My life is already veering from the typical American status quo, so why not unleash more of the perceived restraints.
Tilt away honorable caballero andante from La Mancha, tilt away...
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I have no need to try life without a car again.
Anyway, as to your disdain for cars. Sure, riding changed my driving for the better. But let's be real, I'm not going to avoid something that makes my life better just because some idiots use it. If I really tried to avoid that I'd be left with nothing.
I thought about that for a minute. My idea was I would have more money to spend on more motorcycles. I chickened out…. So I sold my car, bought my wife a new car, took her old car and now I have enough good Will banked that she can’t complain when I buy another bike. It didn’t save any $$$. It cost a lot of $$$ actually. But it’s still not a bad plan.
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I thought about that for a minute. My idea was I would have more money to spend on more motorcycles. I chickened out…. So I sold my car, bought my wife a new car, took her old car and now I have enough good Will banked that she can’t complain when I buy another bike. It didn’t save any $$$. It cost a lot of $$$ actually. But it’s still not a bad plan.
That's the best plan I have heard in years. :thumb:
kk
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Ironically, the American car culture is one of the reasons I’m experimenting not owning a car for a full year and sticking with the Guzzi and Beemer. I find myself loathing nearly every car these days— driving through red lights, not taking turns or letting people merge, not using turn signals, looking at their phones, etc—that I just don’t want to be a part of it anymore…(or so he says only 5 days into the experiment). Way, way too much entitlement out there, and not enough safety mindset in this privileged society.
when I was 19 I had a $1600 motorcycle, and a $100 car. The car only got used when needed.
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When I landed a job at Verizon about < 8 miles away I ditched the 2nd car and rode my motorcycle to work. When Verizon moved even closer to my house it was all the easier and I even walked on nice days. We had the primary people/kid hauler and my wife would give me a ride in really bad weather. Did that for better part of 7 years.
When I changed jobs and wound up in Newark, NJ the first thing I did was buy a commuter car. NO WAY was I going to ride in NYC bound Interstate commuter traffic, then through possibly some of the worst neighborhoods in the state.
Bottom line - be realistic with the risks and challenges of using a motorcycle as your only mode of transport. As Kev noted - snow and ice suck.
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My life is already veering from the typical American status quo, so why not unleash more of the perceived restraints. Anyway…we’ll see. Back to that topic about the air-cooled Guzzi vs the liquid-cooled Guzzi with the breakable gills.
My advice for either in this case would be to check the amount you'll be able to tilt away from the constraint of visiting your Guzzi dealer, on his schedule and at his location, and offering him your credit card. Its a shame to me but these bikes are designed to tie you to the mother ship. I have a V85TT that really hasn't satisfied me so far due to this factor and also due to its scooterish lack of Italian bike feel.
The V85TT would be a pretty good commuter bike, but expect it to feel like a commuter bike and understand that its electronics, dealer only service light reset, chipped key and all the rest won't allow you Guzzi-style off the grid independence. I've ridden the V100 but come to the conclusion that for me it’s more of the same. My ST4 is more to my liking for the same job and cost a fraction as much.
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My advice for either in this case would be to check the amount you'll be able to tilt away from the constraint of visiting your Guzzi dealer, on his schedule and at his location, and offering him your credit card. Its a shame to me but these bikes are designed to tie you to the mother ship. I have a V85TT that really hasn't satisfied me so far due to this factor and also due to its scooterish lack of Italian bike feel.
Appreciate the insight. I’m still in love with what Guzzi is producing and understand the frustration of not being able to reset the wrench icon. But I find nothing else really gets me going the same way.
The V85TT would be a pretty good commuter bike, but expect it to feel like a commuter bike and understand that its electronics, dealer only service light reset, chipped key and all the rest won't allow you Guzzi-style off the grid independence. I've ridden the V100 but come to the conclusion that for me it more of the same. My ST4 is more to my liking for the same job and cost a fraction as much.
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My advice for either in this case would be to check the amount you'll be able to tilt away from the constraint of visiting your Guzzi dealer, on his schedule and at his location, and offering him your credit card. Its a shame to me but these bikes are designed to tie you to the mother ship. I have a V85TT that really hasn't satisfied me so far due to this factor and also due to its scooterish lack of Italian bike feel.
The V85TT would be a pretty good commuter bike, but expect it to feel like a commuter bike and understand that its electronics, dealer only service light reset, chipped key and all the rest won't allow you Guzzi-style off the grid independence. I've ridden the V100 but come to the conclusion that for me it more of the same. My ST4 is more to my liking for the same job and cost a fraction as much.
What happens if you don't turn off the service light?
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Wet clutch and water cooling means it's not even a question. V100 hands down.
Dry clutch and air cooling are not made for traffic
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What happens if you don't turn off the service light?
What happens is nothing until you want to sell the bike and a prospective buyer uses it as a bargaining point and you have to try and convince him of the facts, putting you on the defensive in negotiation. He leaves anyway, dissatisfied.
So then you make an appointment and go to the dealer (nothing available on the weekend and you’ll have to drop the bike off, sorry) and the young and annoying ‘service advisor’ will be “unsure” about whether they can turn the light off without doing an evaluation of the bikes service history. But he’ll get back to you later to tell you that “good news”, Piaggio says it’s OK because you had the records (you did save the oil and parts receipts, right?) and he’ll also get you that extra ignition key you need because the first owner threw the previous spare away after trading in the bike on the spur of the moment. He’s ordered the key (more “good news” they’re still available for now, for $100 despite being made in India) and it’ll be here in a week.”Then we’ll have to get it cut at the locksmith ($100 labor) before coding it to the bike ($120 labor)”.
And so on, the sum total of which is nothing to do with my attraction to motorcycles versus late model cars.
I think Piaggio is tone deaf. Meanwhile the US Japanese motorcycle importers are generally smart enough to know that US buyers do not want or need chipped keys, they have secure garages not outside parking in Milano, and they want to be able to turn off their own service light because they do their own service and repairs in that garage/workshop too.
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Wet clutch and water cooling means it's not even a question. V100 hands down.
Dry clutch and air cooling are not made for traffic
Most of the time I don’t get caught in traffic. However it is definitely a valid point. My commute is between 40-60 minutes. 60-70 miles an hour. I have just pulled over in the past in extreme situations and let the engine cool. Water cooled would be nice.
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Water cooling is a very good point...I would have put my money on the V 85 simply because of size and power ....but the cooling factor would almost be crucial here in summer stuck in traffic in town.
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Anecdote inbound.
When I was in my 20's and just starting out in life I had just started working for Chilton Book Co.
I had a high mileage, beat-up Chevy Blazer (and a payment on it). I also had a 1.5 hour commute each way from just outside Lancaster County PA to the Radnor PA on the main line close to Philly.
A bunch of my co-workers were all motorcycle obsessed. I learned to ride, bought a cheap bike, then quickly decided I wanted a nice bike.
I bought my first new motor vehicle ever - a 1993 Harley 1200 Sporty.
I couldn't afford IT AND my Blazer. So I sold the Blazer and decided I'd go bike only.
Made it like 2-3 years.
Got caught in a snow storm and it took me hours to ride home one day.
Bought a cheap Yamaha 650 Special as my "winter beater bike" and rode that when there was too much ice on the roads.
I had a snow mobile suit, tried every possible method to keep my face shields from fogging (and they all failed), bought Widder electric gloves, still froze at times.
That last year I dropped the 650 like 3 separate times on black ice, one time just trying to get down my driveway.
Said, screw it, life is too short for this crap. Ran out and bought a cheap used Geo Tracker... kept the Harley.... hell, bought another shortly thereafter.
I have no need to try life without a car again.
Anyway, as to your disdain for cars. Sure, riding changed my driving for the better. But let's be real, I'm not going to avoid something that makes my life better just because some idiots use it. If I really tried to avoid that I'd be left with nothing.
I went one year trying to ride only the bike. I still had a car, but my only car on the road at the time was my 70 Mustang drag car. SO I had a bike, and a car with no heat/defrost, no interror at all, steep gears, wide tires, with a manual valve body auto trans... all in upstate NY in the winter... It was fun at the time... and miserable also. One of those things that was cool to HAVE done... but not so much want to do it again. I really didnt mind the bike as long as it was over 30deg, and not glare ice on the roads. Thats no fun. Think I used the bike about 90% of the time.
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I went one year trying to ride only the bike. I still had a car, but my only car on the road at the time was my 70 Mustang drag car. SO I had a bike, and a car with no heat/defrost, no interror at all, steep gears, wide tires, with a manual valve body auto trans... all in upstate NY in the winter... It was fun at the time... and miserable also. One of those things that was cool to HAVE done... but not so much want to do it again. I really didnt mind the bike as long as it was over 30deg, and not glare ice on the roads. Thats no fun. Think I used the bike about 90% of the time.
:thumb:
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Anecdote inbound.
When I was in my 20's and just starting out in life I had just started working for Chilton Book Co.
I had a high mileage, beat-up Chevy Blazer (and a payment on it). I also had a 1.5 hour commute each way from just outside Lancaster County PA to the Radnor PA on the main line close to Philly.
A bunch of my co-workers were all motorcycle obsessed. I learned to ride, bought a cheap bike, then quickly decided I wanted a nice bike.
I bought my first new motor vehicle ever - a 1993 Harley 1200 Sporty.
I couldn't afford IT AND my Blazer. So I sold the Blazer and decided I'd go bike only.
Made it like 2-3 years.
Got caught in a snow storm and it took me hours to ride home one day.
Bought a cheap Yamaha 650 Special as my "winter beater bike" and rode that when there was too much ice on the roads.
I had a snow mobile suit, tried every possible method to keep my face shields from fogging (and they all failed), bought Widder electric gloves, still froze at times.
That last year I dropped the 650 like 3 separate times on black ice, one time just trying to get down my driveway.
Said, screw it, life is too short for this crap. Ran out and bought a cheap used Geo Tracker... kept the Harley.... hell, bought another shortly thereafter.
I have no need to try life without a car again.
Anyway, as to your disdain for cars. Sure, riding changed my driving for the better. But let's be real, I'm not going to avoid something that makes my life better just because some idiots use it. If I really tried to avoid that I'd be left with nothing.
You sir, are a MAN'S MAN!
Or at least you used to be! :wink:
Ah the day of bing young and dumb!!!
Much more fun looking back on the past than trying to reproduce them in the present!
Old age makes us all soft.
V85 vs. V100 discussion is like a discussion of: "is goose underwear down better when if the down comes from the goose or when it comes from the gander?"
First world problems are tough! :laugh:
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I went one year trying to ride only the bike. I still had a car, but my only car on the road at the time was my 70 Mustang drag car. SO I had a bike, and a car with no heat/defrost, no interror at all, steep gears, wide tires, with a manual valve body auto trans... all in upstate NY in the winter... It was fun at the time... and miserable also. One of those things that was cool to HAVE done... but not so much want to do it again. I really didnt mind the bike as long as it was over 30deg, and not glare ice on the roads. Thats no fun. Think I used the bike about 90% of the time.
I have fond memories of living outside of Rochester, NY and riding in a friend's Carman Ghia in the winter with a patch of windshield that measured 2" x 4" that you could actually see thru.
the 12vdc hair dryers that you could buy thru JC Whitney and attach to the dashboard with parts of an old belt and sheet metals screws were brilliant.
IIRC, he had four of them screwed to the dash board.
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You sir, are a MAN'S MAN!
Or at least you used to be! :wink:
Ah the day of bing young and dumb!!!
POINT OF ORDER!
I AM STILL dumb!
First world problems are tough! :laugh:
101%
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POINT OF ORDER!
I AM STILL dumb!
101%
As the classic exchange goes:
Fred: "Yeah, that was fun. Remember when were were young and dumb?"
Joe: "Yeah, I was younger then, but I think I'm dumber now!"
One of my friend's father had a great line whenever my friend screwed up.
"Ya know, that's the problem with kids. You teach them everything you know, and they still don't know nothing!"
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You are more likely to get to work on time on the V100 and even be able to sleep later in the morning..
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Depends on how long you’re stuck in traffic. A good running air cooled Guzzi motor can handle quite a bit of minimal air movement.
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What happens is nothing until you want to sell the bike and a prospective buyer uses it as a bargaining point and you have to try and convince him of the facts, putting you on the defensive in negotiation. He leaves anyway, dissatisfied.
So then you make an appointment and go to the dealer (nothing available on the weekend and you’ll have to drop the bike off, sorry) and the young and annoying ‘service advisor’ will be “unsure” about whether they can turn the light off without doing an evaluation of the bikes service history. But he’ll get back to you later to tell you that “good news”, Piaggio says it’s OK because you had the records (you did save the oil and parts receipts, right?) and he’ll also get you that extra ignition key you need because the first owner threw the previous spare away after trading in the bike on the spur of the moment. He’s ordered the key (more “good news” they’re still available for now, for $100 despite being made in India) and it’ll be here in a week.”Then we’ll have to get it cut at the locksmith ($100 labor) before coding it to the bike ($120 labor)”.
And so on, the sum total of which is nothing to do with my attraction to motorcycles versus late model cars.
I think Piaggio is tone deaf. Meanwhile the US Japanese motorcycle importers are generally smart enough to know that US buyers do not want or need chipped keys, they have secure garages not outside parking in Milano, and they want to be able to turn off their own service light because they do their own service and repairs in that garage/workshop too.
What motorcycles do you own?
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Water cooling is a very good point...I would have put my money on the V 85 simply because of size and power ....but the cooling factor would almost be crucial here in summer stuck in traffic in town.
Many motorcycles don't have the cooling capacity to sit in traffic. Many Owners manuals state not to let the bike idle for longer than X minutes. The forums I have frequented for various liquid cooled bikes have had real world complaints of overheating in traffic.
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Many motorcycles don't have the cooling capacity to sit in traffic. Many Owners manuals state not to let the bike idle for longer than X minutes. The forums I have frequented for various liquid cooled bikes have had real world complaints of overheating in traffic.
Indeed, My Tuono couldn't sit for more than thirty seconds at a light without the coolant temp rocketing up to 225 F , Hopefully the v1000 will be more forgiving with its engine configuration and cooling fins ect. The older air cooled motors were just much better heat sinks with their heaver cast components compared to modern lightweight motors I think.
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What motorcycles do you own?
20 V85TT
79 LeMans
97 Daytona RS
80 Ducati 900SS
97 Ducati 900SS
99 Ducati ST4
01 Ducati 996
90 BMW R100GS
02 Suzuki SV650
I’m becoming less of a fan of electronics on motorcycles as time goes on, based on experience, and have gravitated mostly to bikes which have less, versus more. The European manufacturers especially have used electronics to breed dependency and obsolescence, which is the opposite of my attraction to motorcycles in general and especially to (traditional) European motorcycles. The V85TT appealed to me as being in the same spirit as the R100GS and at its core it’s a good bike. However for me it would have been a better bike to ride and to own with less electronics overall and less integration of the electronics remained.
I’m mulling over replacing the V85TT with the cleanest dual disk R100R that I can find, but time will tell. I just got off the TT and it rides reasonably well, although without a huge amount of character. That just reflects my tastes.
BTW, based on experience I would generally be more concerned about a liquid cooled bike overheating in traffic than an air cooled bike, but it depends on the individual bikes.
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Indeed, My Tuono couldn't sit for more than thirty seconds at a light without the coolant temp rocketing up to 225 F , Hopefully the v1000 will be more forgiving with its engine configuration and cooling fins ect. The older air cooled motors were just much better heat sinks with their heaver cast components compared to modern lightweight motors I think.
well I’m definitely learning a few things. I really like both bikes. Currently leaning towards the v85. I’ve never had a problem commuting on my air cooled bikes. For the first time in 6 years of riding I have my own car to use but it sits in the garage. Gina have to test ride both probably. Will probably get more serious in a month or so depending on circumstances
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Practicality is a term that must be left in the car park at the dealer’s premises.
You pay 30,000 Australian dollars over here, for a machine that can carry one person realistically and slurps 4.4 - 5.5 litres/100 km.
Yesterday I took a trip in a Toyota Camry that was using 5.5 l/100 km in city driving…!
I did some math once regarding my Norge..
I get 20,000 km from a set of Michelins, that is a bit over $10 per tank of fuel, just for tyres..!
So…
If me and 3 mates want to go from Melbourne to Sydney that’s 1000 km. The Camry will use 50 litres of fuel at $2.00/litre so that gives $100 divided by 4, so that’s 25 bucks each.
If we go on the bikes and they’re all Norges for instance, we will each use 2 complete tanks at 500 km per tank, so that will be $92 each plus $20 for tyres so we are each up for $112 to do the same trip.
25 bucks versus 112…. :rolleyes:
No bike is practical unless you count parking costs.
Huzo, I noticed you used what some may call a high end European motorcycle in your calculations. In some parts of the world they import bikes from Japan such as a Honda CT110. I am not sure if you have come across one. Apparently they are reasonably capable and can be used almost daily. It would be interesting to hear the cost calculations from someone who has actually ridden one of these some distance, like around a whole country, not just mailbox to mailbox. I mean a decent sized country to, not something like Austria like I heard some bloke once did.
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well I’m definitely learning a few things. I really like both bikes. Currently leaning towards the v85. I’ve never had a problem commuting on my air cooled bikes. For the first time in 6 years of riding I have my own car to use but it sits in the garage. Gina have to test ride both probably. Will probably get more serious in a month or so depending on circumstances
Sorry If I missed this in the discussion - but were I YOU, I would take a look at the # of miles you put on in a year (or anticipate putting on) and compare it to the valve lash adjustment interval on the new V100.
There's a exhausting pedantic discussion about it over at ADV rider. But the reader's digest version is that the cams have to come out to change shims and that MIGHT involve significant disassembly for access to pin the motor IF you're not taking shortcuts.
That's a hard pass for me, though that is probably the vestigial tail of my preferences from the time long gone when I didn't own a car and rode 20-30k miles a year. These days I could get away with such a bike in the fleet because it is likely that I wouldn't have to do that adjustment more often than every 4-5 years (depending on what else is in the fleet and how far out that adjustment is).
That's where my preferences for:
* Air-cooled
* Hydraulic lifters or simple/easy access locknut valve adjustments
* Belt or Shaft drive
* EFI
first developed. It was after having dealt with the opposites of those things with ridiculous frequency that I found I no longer wanted to deal with those things.
So FOR ME - the answer would be simple - a V85.... (or a Bobber - did I mention another leftover original survivor at a local dealer just sold once again freeing me from the fear of purchasing it).
Ahhhhhhh, never did I think I would reach the point in life when I was actively trying NOT to buy a bike.
It's a lot of work, a lot of work... Good luck failing at it, I'm a little jelly.
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Sorry If I missed this in the discussion - but were I YOU, I would take a look at the # of miles you put on in a year (or anticipate putting on) and compare it to the valve lash adjustment interval on the new V100.
There's a exhausting pedantic discussion about it over at ADV rider. But the reader's digest version is that the cams have to come out to change shims and that MIGHT involve significant disassembly for access to pin the motor IF you're not taking shortcuts.
That's a hard pass for me, though that is probably the vestigial tail of my preferences from the time long gone when I didn't own a car and rode 20-30k miles a year. These days I could get away with such a bike in the fleet because it is likely that I wouldn't have to do that adjustment more often than every 4-5 years (depending on what else is in the fleet and how far out that adjustment is).
That's where my preferences for:
* Air-cooled
* Hydraulic lifters or simple/easy access locknut valve adjustments
* Belt or Shaft drive
* EFI
first developed. It was after having dealt with the opposites of those things with ridiculous frequency that I found I no longer wanted to deal with those things.
So FOR ME - the answer would be simple - a V85.... (or a Bobber - did I mention another leftover original survivor at a local dealer just sold once again freeing me from the fear of purchasing it).
Ahhhhhhh, never did I think I would reach the point in life when I was actively trying NOT to buy a bike.
It's a lot of work, a lot of work... Good luck failing at it, I'm a little jelly.
Man that’s a heck of a point. I wonder how that procedure would be to perform. I average a good amount of miles on bikes compared to my friends at least. I have to check valve adjustments on my v7 4-5 times in the less than two years I’ve had my new one. So definitely a consideration. That v85 is singing to me. Lots to mull over. This is my transportation. I bum rides on four wheels from my wife.
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Huzo, I noticed you used what some may call a high end European motorcycle in your calculations. In some parts of the world they import bikes from Japan such as a Honda CT110. I am not sure if you have come across one. Apparently they are reasonably capable and can be used almost daily. It would be interesting to hear the cost calculations from someone who has actually ridden one of these some distance, like around a whole country, not just mailbox to mailbox. I mean a decent sized country to, not something like Austria like I heard some bloke once did.
I’m lead to believe it was Australia not Austria, but I digress mate…
The guy who rode around Oz including Cape York Peninsula, was and still is a certified idiot…!
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(https://i.ibb.co/Dtym7Vk/IMG-3061.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dtym7Vk)
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Anecdote inbound.
When I was in my 20's and just starting out in life I had just started working for Chilton Book Co.
I had a high mileage, beat-up Chevy Blazer (and a payment on it). I also had a 1.5 hour commute each way from just outside Lancaster County PA to the Radnor PA on the main line close to Philly.
A bunch of my co-workers were all motorcycle obsessed. I learned to ride, bought a cheap bike, then quickly decided I wanted a nice bike.
I bought my first new motor vehicle ever - a 1993 Harley 1200 Sporty.
I couldn't afford IT AND my Blazer. So I sold the Blazer and decided I'd go bike only.
Made it like 2-3 years.
Got caught in a snow storm and it took me hours to ride home one day.
Bought a cheap Yamaha 650 Special as my "winter beater bike" and rode that when there was too much ice on the roads.
I had a snow mobile suit, tried every possible method to keep my face shields from fogging (and they all failed), bought Widder electric gloves, still froze at times.
That last year I dropped the 650 like 3 separate times on black ice, one time just trying to get down my driveway.
Said, screw it, life is too short for this crap. Ran out and bought a cheap used Geo Tracker... kept the Harley.... hell, bought another shortly thereafter.
I have no need to try life without a car again.
Anyway, as to your disdain for cars. Sure, riding changed my driving for the better. But let's be real, I'm not going to avoid something that makes my life better just because some idiots use it. If I really tried to avoid that I'd be left with nothing.
GO GEO!!!
I now bow out of this conversation ungracefully.......
inditx
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GO GEO!!!
I now bow out of this conversation ungracefully.......
inditx
It was a great little truck. TOTAL stripped model. No AC, no Power Windows, No Power Steering either if memory serves. NO 4WD... well, no 4WD for the first year or so, then I got bored and made it a 4WD! Then it was a little tank. Nothing could stop it...
...well, nothing but a blizzard one night that put a wall of snow on the road between farmers fields that was taller than the hood of the little beast. I slept in an Amish farmhouse that night... I just couldn't make it the final 5 miles to my home. A non-Amish farmer yanked it out of the snow onto the then freshly plowed road using his tractor the next morning.
Still, a great little beast.
But I think I like my Wrangler more.
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Sorry If I missed this in the discussion - but were I YOU, I would take a look at the # of miles you put on in a year (or anticipate putting on) and compare it to the valve lash adjustment interval on the new V100.
There's a exhausting pedantic discussion about it over at ADV rider. But the reader's digest version is that the cams have to come out to change shims and that MIGHT involve significant disassembly for access to pin the motor IF you're not taking shortcuts.
What is the valve check interval? I know for the Yamaha 700cc parallel twin it is 24,000 miles.
And of course check doesn't mean adjustments have to be made.
It would be interesting to see what dealers are going to charge for the check and adjustment compared with the V85TT. I would think it would still be reasonable compared to inline 4 engines that require the bike to be stripped down a lot just to get to the valve covers.
I think a lot of new bikes coming out today are for the rider who trades in every 2 to 4 years whenever the warranty runs out.
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The V100 valve adjustment interval is 15,000 miles.
The V85 interval is 6,000 miles but it takes only half an hour so so at home, it’s not worth taking it to the dealer except for resetting the annoying light in the instrument panel.
My current hope with my V85TT is that the dealer can at least reset the light without damaging the bike and I’m neither exaggerating nor paranoid. The same dealer did a 600 mile service before my ownership, which started at 1700 miles, but I got the receipt. When I did the 6000 mile service I found all four valves uniformly set to 0.2-mm (too much), the wrong transmission oil was used, and that a spark plug wire guide bracket screw had been removed from one valve cover and butchered when the hamfisted ‘mechanic’ attempted to reinstall it. Removal of that bracket is not necessary to remove the cover and Piaggio used a Torx head screw to make that clear. Eventually he left it unscrewed, sticking out of the stripped tapped hole at an angle. For this the dealer charged the previous owner $600, including a charge for twice as much engine oil as it holds.
Now imagine a shop like that, one of the largest and most successful European bike dealers in the US mind you, doing the valve adjustment on your new V100. There are always a few exceptions but what I think what you’re dealing with at most motorcycle dealer service departments is near total incompetence and/or hurrying to save time that you’ll pay for anyway. Car dealers are the same but the manufacturers have removed most skilled periodic service from car designs.
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It was a great little truck. TOTAL stripped model. No AC, no Power Windows, No Power Steering either if memory serves. NO 4WD... well, no 4WD for the first year or so, then I got bored and made it a 4WD! Then it was a little tank. Nothing could stop it...
...well, nothing but a blizzard one night that put a wall of snow on the road between farmers fields that was taller than the hood of the little beast. I slept in an Amish farmhouse that night... I just couldn't make it the final 5 miles to my home. A non-Amish farmer yanked it out of the snow onto the then freshly plowed road using his tractor the next morning.
Still, a great little beast.
But I think I like my Wrangler more.
Nice Kev, great story.
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The V100 valve adjustment interval is 15,000 miles.
The V85 interval is 6,000 miles but it takes only half an hour so so at home, it’s not worth taking it to the dealer except for resetting the annoying light in the instrument panel.
My current hope with my V85TT is that the dealer can at least reset the light without damaging the bike and I’m neither exaggerating nor paranoid. The same dealer did a 600 mile service before my ownership, which started at 1700 miles, but I got the receipt. When I did the 6000 mile service I found all four valves uniformly set to 0.2-mm (too much), the wrong transmission oil was used, and that a spark plug wire guide bracket screw had been removed from one valve cover and butchered when the hamfisted ‘mechanic’ attempted to reinstall it. Removal of that bracket is not necessary to remove the cover and Piaggio used a Torx head screw to make that clear. Eventually he left it unscrewed, sticking out of the stripped tapped hole at an angle. For this the dealer charged the previous owner $600, including a charge for twice as much engine oil as it holds.
Now imagine a shop like that, one of the largest and most successful European bike dealers in the US mind you, doing the valve adjustment on your new V100. There are always a few exceptions but what I think what you’re dealing with at most motorcycle dealer service departments is near total incompetence and/or hurrying to save time that you’ll pay for anyway. Car dealers are the same but the manufacturers have removed most skilled periodic service from car designs.
Similar experience with dealer incompetence has led me to doing my own work. I had the dealer overfill my oil by 2 liters. Af1 is the only competent dealer experience I’ve had and they’re three hours away. I wonder how truly complicated an adjustment for the v100 would be?
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Similar experience with dealer incompetence has led me to doing my own work. I had the dealer overfill my oil by 2 liters. Af1 is the only competent dealer experience I’ve had and they’re three hours away. I wonder how truly complicated an adjustment for the v100 would be?
A lot easier than sport bikes. It was like performing open heart surgery on my Concours 1400.
Many a rider with shim under bucket check it at the first interval, and if none are out they will just ride it until it gets a little difficult to start. Then it is time to check again and adjust.
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Following up on my comments about chipped keys and dealer-only service light resets, I had my local and very well established Italian bike dealer address both today on my V85TT. The experience would apply to either bike equally and is something the buyer of either might bear in mind if the intent is practical use and long life.
The dealer did manage to match the new coded and cut key to the bike and to turn off the service light quickly and without damaging the bike, and for that I was happy. I was in and out in 30 minutes on a Saturday, having needed to make an appointment to make that possible weeks in advance. The bill was $157, half an hour labor for each item, notwithstanding that the bike was only on the property for 30 minutes total. So a real labor rate of $314 an hour to address two items that I wish hadn’t been included in the design of the bike. I previously bought the OEM coded key (made by a Pakistani subcontractor to Piaggio, per the packaging) for something like $60 and had it cut by a locksmith for $5 or so. So the cost for a replacement key adds up to about $140 and if you do your own service (which on the V85TT is very easy and not too expensive) you might need to budget an additional $75 every 6,000 miles if you want the service light off. I think a wise owner who does their own work would leave the light on until ready to sell the bike, and then have it reset once. I did it this time only because the bike was in the shop for the spare key, and because I was curious about how much they would charge if left to their own devices and without me pushing back. Having the service icon will still bother me when it comes back on, hardly surprising since that’s the design intent but it doesn’t encourage me to pay tribute to do my own service, it makes me look for a way out.
It was an interesting experiment but all of the above is contrary to what I love about motorcycles and with that in mind I’ll be going in a different direction down the road. Piaggio has just lost a customer in his peak earning years who has had at least one Guzzi in the stable continuously since 1987, currently three of them.
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The V100 valve adjustment interval is 15,000 miles.
The V85 interval is 6,000 miles but it takes only half an hour so so at home, it’s not worth taking it to the dealer except for resetting the annoying light in the instrument panel.
My current hope with my V85TT is that the dealer can at least reset the light without damaging the bike and I’m neither exaggerating nor paranoid. The same dealer did a 600 mile service before my ownership, which started at 1700 miles, but I got the receipt. When I did the 6000 mile service I found all four valves uniformly set to 0.2-mm (too much), the wrong transmission oil was used, and that a spark plug wire guide bracket screw had been removed from one valve cover and butchered when the hamfisted ‘mechanic’ attempted to reinstall it. Removal of that bracket is not necessary to remove the cover and Piaggio used a Torx head screw to make that clear. Eventually he left it unscrewed, sticking out of the stripped tapped hole at an angle. For this the dealer charged the previous owner $600, including a charge for twice as much engine oil as it holds.
Now imagine a shop like that, one of the largest and most successful European bike dealers in the US mind you, doing the valve adjustment on your new V100. There are always a few exceptions but what I think what you’re dealing with at most motorcycle dealer service departments is near total incompetence and/or hurrying to save time that you’ll pay for anyway. Car dealers are the same but the manufacturers have removed most skilled periodic service from car designs.
I hear you. I've never gotten a bike back from a dealer after they did some warranty work, where they didn't break something, strip something, didn't tighten something important, or banged up something on the bike while it was in their care. I refuse to let one of these chimps ever touch my bikes unless it's absolutely necessary, such as when they wont give me the warranty parts to install them myself. And if it's a warranty part not all that expensive, like less than $200, I would rather just buy the part and install it myself.
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Following up on my comments about chipped keys and dealer-only service light resets, I had my local and very well established Italian bike dealer address both today on my V85TT. The experience would apply to either bike equally and is something the buyer of either might bear in mind if the intent is practical use and long life.
The dealer did manage to match the new coded and cut key to the bike and to turn off the service light quickly and without damaging the bike, and for that I was happy. I was in and out in 30 minutes on a Saturday, having needed to make an appointment to make that possible weeks in advance. The bill was $157, half an hour labor for each item, notwithstanding that the bike was only on the property for 30 minutes total. So a real labor rate of $314 an hour to address two items that I wish hadn’t been included in the design of the bike. I previously bought the OEM coded key (made by a Pakistani subcontractor to Piaggio, per the packaging) for something like $60 and had it cut by a locksmith for $5 or so. So the cost for a replacement key adds up to about $140 and if you do your own service (which on the V85TT is very easy and not too expensive) you might need to budget an additional $75 every 6,000 miles if you want the service light off. I think a wise owner who does their own work would leave the light on until ready to sell the bike, and then have it reset once. I did it this time only because the bike was in the shop for the spare key, and because I was curious about how much they would charge if left to their own devices and without me pushing back. Having the service icon will still bother me when it comes back on, hardly surprising since that’s the design intent but it doesn’t encourage me to pay tribute to do my own service, it makes me look for a way out.
It was an interesting experiment but all of the above is contrary to what I love about motorcycles and with that in mind I’ll be going in a different direction down the road. Piaggio has just lost a customer in his peak earning years who has had at least one Guzzi in the stable continuously since 1987, currently three of them.
As for the service wrench icon on the display. It's so small and doesn't blink so I really don't think it's all that noticeable when it's on. So I wont be running to the dealer just to get them to turn it off, unless I need them to do something else on the bike using their PADS device.
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I still believe someone in the aftermarket will eventually address the wrench icon reset, if for no other reason than the fact that hackers enjoy defeating things like that. In the mean time, on my V7-850 I don’t even notice it anymore.
I almost bought a new old stock ‘22 V85 Adventure yesterday, after sitting on the V100 and realizing it’s too tight ergonomically for me, with too much forward lean. These days it’s comfort over performance. I think I was looking at a decent deal, at $11,400 + tax, tag, etc, no freight or prep. I told them I’d call them this week. Still trying to decide what to do.
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Most of the time I don’t get caught in traffic. However it is definitely a valid point. My commute is between 40-60 minutes. 60-70 miles an hour. I have just pulled over in the past in extreme situations and let the engine cool. Water cooled would be nice.
Keep in mind the challenges with liquid-cooled too:
- Extra maintenance.
- Extra cost.
- Increased chances of yet another fluid leak.
- Accidental or intentional incident could result in a screwdriver in your radiator or engine block. Unless it is winter, it might be difficult to follow those air-cooled bikes home.
- More weight due to block design and cooling fluid.
Of course there are the advantages:
- Hot summer traffic engine insurance.
- Improved performance and economy.
- Improved operational behaviour over wider range of air-ambient temperatures.
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...
Ahhhhhhh, never did I think I would reach the point in life when I was actively trying NOT to buy a bike.
It's a lot of work, a lot of work...
(https://i.ibb.co/8847JmP/Giggles.gif) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Of course another advantage of liquid cooling, is that you can actually buy a big bike that passes emission standards and can actually outrun a 12 year old kid on a pedal trike…!
An air cooled 1020 cc new Moto Guzzi would be a wonderful thing to buy new, until you went to get it registered and then you’d get told to bugger off…!
That would represent a fair disadvantage… :angry:
IF I ever buy a new bike it will be another Guzzi, so I guess it’s a fait accompli that the bastard will be liquid cooled.
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Of course another advantage of liquid cooling, is that you can actually buy a big bike that passes emission standards and can actually outrun a 12 year old kid on a pedal trike…!
An air cooled 1020 cc new Moto Guzzi would be a wonderful thing to buy new, until you went to get it registered and then you’d get told to bugger off…!
That would represent a fair disadvantage… :angry:
IF I ever buy a new bike it will be another Guzzi, so I guess it’s a fait accompli that the bastard will be liquid cooled.
Good luck with that.
In my state, and the last two I lived in, we don't even have vehicle inspections. You can register anything with a title or other paperwork if you took a loan. Four out of my 5 bikes are air or air/oil cooled. I have no need for liquid cooling where I ride.
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Keep in mind that the V100 is the shiny new toy in the lineup and you'll be paying top dollar and buying brand new technology. The V85TT has been around a few years now and you can get very good prices on both new and used. The difference in price should be considered.
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Liquid cooled offers better performance if that's what you're after. But if you have a fondness for traditional air-cooled motors you better get one while you can. Yeah you can always find a used one later on but have you checked prices on airhead BMW's recently?
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Liquid cooled offers better performance if that's what you're after. But if you have a fondness for traditional air-cooled motors you better get one while you can. Yeah you can always find a used one later on but have you checked prices on airhead BMW's recently?
The *gasp* novelty of owning one of the last remaining completely air-cooled ADV bikes—if not THE last?—was an argument I gave to someone on a New England FB group page. Heck, even the Royal Enfield Himalayan (and its Scram sibling) now has an oil cooler.
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Getting back to the original topic - why not wait for the V100 Stelvio and have the best of both worlds? I've told myself that my V85TT will be the last new bike I buy but provided the pricing isn't astronomical, the V100 Stelvio might be very tempting.
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The *gasp* novelty of owning one of the last remaining completely air-cooled ADV bikes—if not THE last?—was an argument I gave to someone on a New England FB group page. Heck, even the Royal Enfield Himalayan (and its Scram sibling) now has an oil cooler.
The RE Himalayan always had an oil cooler.
I don't believe that is the same as oil cooled heads.
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The RE Himalayan always had an oil cooler.
Oof, good correction. I was at my local RE dealer a couple days ago and only noticed the oil coolers for the first time on those 411 power plants.
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Oof, good correction. I was at my local RE dealer a couple days ago and only noticed the oil coolers for the first time on those 411 power plants.
I have been enjoying this discussion quite a bit. Appreciate the insight. Still debating. So much to like on both platforms and I must admit I really love my v7 so not in a rush. First world problems I guess