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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sdcr on June 06, 2023, 05:16:00 PM

Title: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 06, 2023, 05:16:00 PM
Trying to tip toe around this, and still have it part of the discussion. On a very well known auction site, there is a beautiful
1991 Moto Guzzi 1000S. Looks like it was originally from GT Motors.

The owner has very good taste in Moto Guzzi’s.

Does it belong to anyone here.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: guzzisteve on June 06, 2023, 07:22:31 PM
Looks like a nice one, Bub head pipes & Conti's from same. Not many miles.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: kidsmoke on June 06, 2023, 08:03:40 PM
Trying to tip toe around this, and still have it part of the discussion. On a very well known auction site, there is a beautiful
1991 Moto Guzzi 1000S. Looks like it was originally from GT Motors.

The owner has very good taste in Moto Guzzi’s.

Does it belong to anyone here.

The seller popped up on Facebook a couple of months back and was asking questions that led me to believe he didn’t know what he had. Pure speculation on my part but I’d guess this seller inherited a group of machines and is liquidating. Again based on my perception of his reaction. If I’m way off, it’s not the first time. This is not to throw shade on the sale/seller in any manner. 

Does look like a lovely bike.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 06, 2023, 08:14:52 PM
The seller popped up on Facebook a couple of months back and was asking questions that led me to believe he didn’t know what he had. Pure speculation on my part but I’d guess this seller inherited a group of machines and is liquidating. Again based on my perception of his reaction. If I’m way off, it’s not the first time. This is not to throw shade on the sale/seller in any manner. 

Does look like a lovely bike.

Thanks, good to know.
John
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: LeRoy on June 06, 2023, 08:38:05 PM
I think the GT Motors sticker placement is suspect. Larry usually placed them somewhere on the rear of the bike, below the license plate etc.
>>>>>
So I took a second look and there is a sticker in the usual position.

Just another point of reference: On my 1986 Le Mans IV, bought new from Larry Klein in September 1986, the GT Motors stickers are on the rear below the license plate and at the bottom of the right fork leg. Square corners, too.  :laugh:

I still have the bike but it's such a shame we don't still have Larry.

By the way, I'm in Michigan, not far from where the auction bike is located. I'd be happy to take a look at the bike on behalf of any list member.

LeRoy
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Turin on June 06, 2023, 09:13:27 PM
Sharp looking bike, and I wouldn't kick one out of my garage, but I think they are a little overpriced for what they are. 17K ?
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 07, 2023, 06:15:16 AM
Well that's interesting, Leroy. I worked with and for Larry from 1984 on and don't remember him putting stickers on forks but maybe my memory isn't so hot. I know I never put one on a fork leg. I did put them on license plate brackets if Larry hadn't by the end of my test ride. There frequently was conversation surrounding installing stickers as Larry was installing them, sort of claiming the bike kind of thing, branding like a steer if you will. Many chuckles with Larry.

Brian

I never met Larry Klein, but have heard a few anecdotal stories about his shop. From what I understand, it was a very enthusiast oriented place, unlike some of the sterile, corporate focused operations that we see today.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: blackcat on June 07, 2023, 06:32:57 AM
Sharp looking bike, and I wouldn't kick one out of my garage, but I think they are a little overpriced for what they are. 17K ?

The last one sold for $21,500 on BAT.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: twowheeladdict on June 07, 2023, 07:00:59 AM
The first thing I do when buying a new bike is peel off all the "stickers"  Never heard of a dealer putting stickers on a bike, but I would have asked them not to.  Never would have imagined that having a dealer sticker on a bike would increase value. 

In my area most of the car dealers have gone to license plate frames that the owner can remove than putting a dealer name on the paint job.

I really like the look of the green stripe 1000S.  They should bring back that paint scheme on a new V7.

Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 07, 2023, 07:20:57 AM
The last one sold for $21,500 on BAT.

...and I can recall Franz at Spare Parts having at least one in the showroom, marked down to around $6500., IIRC.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: guido guzzi on June 07, 2023, 07:32:34 AM
Hoochie Mama!  :drool: That's your big valve... Not usually a fan of black exhaust but it looks perfect on this one.
Around 1997 I had the chance to buy a 1 owner black and orange big valve (1990?) for the princely sum of $7,000... :cry: :violent1:
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: blackcat on June 07, 2023, 07:32:56 AM
...and I can recall Franz at Spare Parts having at least one in the showroom, marked down to around $6500., IIRC.

According to Franz, he sold more 1000S models than anyone else in the country.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 07, 2023, 07:39:07 AM
According to Franz, he sold more 1000S models than anyone else in the country.

I believe that.
 The shop is just a hole in the wall on a backstreet in Philly. But, if you wanted a well set up Guzzi, that was the place.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 08, 2023, 09:49:54 AM
The exhaust on the BaT 1000S is black, possibly a BUB?

It’s starting to gather steam...
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Turin on June 08, 2023, 11:35:11 AM
looks like a BUB system to me. It will sound amazing.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: blackcat on June 08, 2023, 01:43:52 PM
The exhaust on the BaT 1000S is black, possibly a BUB?

It’s starting to gather steam...

Yes, good luck in your bidding. A 91 came up for sale awhile back on the FB 1000S group with lower miles than this one and it was priced at $12K or some such low number and a friend of mine scooped it up in a blink.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: brider on June 09, 2023, 09:10:14 AM
Hoochie Mama!  :drool: That's your big valve... Not usually a fan of black exhaust but it looks perfect on this one.
Around 1997 I had the chance to buy a 1 owner black and orange big valve (1990?) for the princely sum of $7,000... :cry: :violent1:

Yep, me too. My mistake was on the showroom floor, a little earlier than '97, unsold, and I kept walking past it to the service area where they were working on my Convert. I looked at it a lot, but the (pittance, in hindsight) asking price was out of my ability to consider. Young and dumb.  :violent1:
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 09, 2023, 09:26:59 AM
So, I’ve decided that this one isn’t for me.
 For anyone else that is interested, here is the link to the specific 1000S https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-moto-guzzi-1000s/

Thank to Bob Sharp for his generous assistance.

John
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: spmoto on June 09, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Anywhere but WFO, the mid-valve motor was better. It pulled harder from down low, had better manners (and not in a sterile way). When set up properly, it was actually more potent and tractable than a big valve. The mystique of the big valve is just that. Of course, on the other hand, who cares about that. Cache is cache.   
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: wirespokes on June 09, 2023, 10:02:48 PM
Anywhere but WFO, the mid-valve motor was better. It pulled harder from down low, had better manners (and not in a sterile way). When set up properly, it was actually more potent and tractable than a big valve. The mystique of the big valve is just that. Of course, on the other hand, who cares about that. Cache is cache.
Funny - that's not my experience at all! But I can understand where such a viewpoint could come from. As jetted from the factory, they sucked big time and guzzled too. Those big valve 1000s, unlike the LM3 before it, came jetted terribly wrong. Once sorted they are definitely strong and smooth throughout the range. I'm guessing you never rode one that was running right.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: twowheeladdict on June 10, 2023, 07:13:11 AM
If Moto Guzzi would bring back the V7 Racer in this color scheme I would not be able to resist.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 10, 2023, 08:06:41 AM

....., unlike the LM3 before it, came jetted terribly wrong. Once sorted they are definitely strong and smooth throughout the range. I'm guessing you never rode one that was running right.

I found the Le Mans III to be a very  enjoyable motorbike.  Not extremely powerful, but fast enough. The throttle response was spot on, and with some basic suspension modifications, it was a very satisfying ride.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Turin on June 10, 2023, 10:31:39 AM
I have a Lemans III and it's okay. It really feels like a warmed over T-3 with more top end. This one is waiting to get it's new cam and alloy flywheel installed.

If we want to argue the virtues of the LeMans big valve vs the 1993 world engine, then I'd like to throw in the 1100 california/EV motor into the mix, which tops them both.

If I were in the market I'd be calling Mark Etheridge at Moto Guzzi Classics. Mark has built some Cali's into really gorgeous "1100 sports". You could have one of those and a nice LeMans1000 for the price of a 1000S.

(https://i.ibb.co/165TX8K/20220913-104409.jpg) (https://ibb.co/165TX8K)


(https://i.ibb.co/CQTFF4D/20220913-105013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CQTFF4D)
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Tom on June 10, 2023, 02:29:46 PM
 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: on Mark.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Turin on June 10, 2023, 05:41:54 PM
He just finished an 1100 LeMans !
https://www.facebook.com/100063601059063/videos/pcb.1390725555055290/1386217522224705 (https://www.facebook.com/100063601059063/videos/pcb.1390725555055290/1386217522224705)

(https://i.ibb.co/CQRGvQk/MGC-LM1100.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CQRGvQk)

image hosting sites (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: guzzisteve on June 13, 2023, 02:22:37 PM
Half hour to go, if you want it  $17,750
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: blackcat on June 13, 2023, 03:01:55 PM
Sold: $18K
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: guzzisteve on June 13, 2023, 03:07:04 PM
WTF Over!!! I better sell a 700 & fix the LM3
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: kidsmoke on June 13, 2023, 03:22:44 PM
Sold: $18K

Interesting. Couple thousand less than the higher mileage/mid valve/world engine version from a couple years ago. Better marketing on that one? (videos were tantallizing as I recall) Less rare status of this bike? or just right place right time?

Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: blackcat on June 13, 2023, 05:22:52 PM
Interesting. Couple thousand less than the higher mileage/mid valve/world engine version from a couple years ago. Better marketing on that one? (videos were tantallizing as I recall) Less rare status of this bike? or just right place right time?

Yeah, I’m surprised as I thought it would break $20K.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Turin on June 13, 2023, 06:14:43 PM
I did too. 18K is still a lot of $.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 13, 2023, 07:22:59 PM
There were some unoriginal aspects of the BaT 1000S, like the painted valve covers. Also, the Akront spoke wheels may, or may not have been recalled. Plus, there were just a handful of bidders, and few comments.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on June 14, 2023, 07:53:14 AM
I feel like BAT has lost a lot of steam in the past 2 years. Seems like a lot of people overpayed for some iffy vehicles, and they no longer have to cachet they once did.

For a while, people seemed to think BAT had somehow tested/approved/vetted/guaranteed the vehicles but in reality, the owner compiles the info and forwards to them... they just write the Ad and run the auction.

The experience of selling via BAT soured me on the site. Other than looking at this bike once, I havent looked/browsed (or certainly bid) on BAT since the day my Ambo sold there.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 14, 2023, 08:31:00 AM
I feel like BAT has lost a lot of steam in the past ......

The experience of selling via BAT soured me on the site. Other than looking at this bike once, I havent looked/browsed (or certainly bid) on BAT since the day my Ambo sold there.

I saw your Ambassador auction.
Thought it went very well, no?
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: guido guzzi on June 14, 2023, 08:36:13 AM
I feel like BAT has lost a lot of steam in the past 2 years. Seems like a lot of people overpayed for some iffy vehicles, and they no longer have to cachet they once did.

For a while, people seemed to think BAT had somehow tested/approved/vetted/guaranteed the vehicles but in reality, the owner compiles the info and forwards to them... they just write the Ad and run the auction.

The experience of selling via BAT soured me on the site. Other than looking at this bike once, I havent looked/browsed (or certainly bid) on BAT since the day my Ambo sold there.

$11,750.00 is pretty good money for an Ambassador... What about the experience did you not like?
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on June 14, 2023, 09:02:37 AM
I wanted a reserve, they refused only after I had spent months back and forth send them the details etc and paid hundreds for professional pics and video. They schedule the auction listing, and it went live *months* after I wanted it to.  As a matter of fact, my auction ended the day after the lowest DOW/S&P price point recorded in like 7 years and the day of a bombshell inflation report.  I firmly believe if it had auctioned 6 weeks sooner, it would have gone for $2-5k more.

Yes, $11,750 is good money for an ambassador, but lesser loops had sold on BAT in the previous year for up to $17.5k.

In the end, I didn't lose money on it... more or less broke even, but I wanted to set a $13k reserve, I would have rather kept it than sell for the aprox $300 profit. I probably could have kept it fairly pristine for 2-3 seasons and enjoyed it and still sold private near $9-10k. I only really rushed to sell it on BAT because I was seeing these insane sale prices. Adding insult to injury, I barely rode and enjoyed it once I signed up with BAT because I didnt want to mess it up or add too many miles in the run-up to sale. So I had this awesome bike I put together sitting in my garage for two months instead of running in the sun.

I bought into the hype that just by virtue of selling on BAT that it would bring silly money. That was my bad. I just didn't like their approach to scheduling and listing.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Dave Swanson on June 14, 2023, 09:08:16 AM
I was watching a quite nice '75 R90S sell for only $6500!  The seller was absolutely gutted because BAT was pretty adamant that he list it at no reserve.  The watchers were just as stunned also expecting it to sell in the 11-12K range.  Luck of the draw with the no reserve feature. 
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 14, 2023, 09:21:04 AM
I’ve noticed a few Dealer auctions, that the seller stated were sold at a “ loss”.
 Hard to really verify their claim, but the sale price seemed low.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: guido guzzi on June 14, 2023, 09:33:37 AM
Watching some of those BAT bikes - maybe cars too - reach insane prices makes me think there's less than honest activity taking place there.
So a $6500.00 hammer price is $7150.00 with buyer's premium and that's certainly well bought for a nice R90S :thumb:
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: guido guzzi on June 14, 2023, 09:45:05 AM
I wanted a reserve, they refused only after I had spent months back and forth send them the details etc and paid hundreds for professional pics and video. They schedule the auction listing, and it went live *months* after I wanted it to.  As a matter of fact, my auction ended the day after the lowest DOW/S&P price point recorded in like 7 years and the day of a bombshell inflation report.  I firmly believe if it had auctioned 6 weeks sooner, it would have gone for $2-5k more.

Yes, $11,750 is good money for an ambassador, but lesser loops had sold on BAT in the previous year for up to $17.5k.

In the end, I didn't lose money on it... more or less broke even, but I wanted to set a $13k reserve, I would have rather kept it than sell for the aprox $300 profit. I probably could have kept it fairly pristine for 2-3 seasons and enjoyed it and still sold private near $9-10k. I only really rushed to sell it on BAT because I was seeing these insane sale prices. Adding insult to injury, I barely rode and enjoyed it once I signed up with BAT because I didnt want to mess it up or add too many miles in the run-up to sale. So I had this awesome bike I put together sitting in my garage for two months instead of running in the sun.

I bought into the hype that just by virtue of selling on BAT that it would bring silly money. That was my bad. I just didn't like their approach to scheduling and listing.

Thank you for the information. Have heard that getting them to approve a reserve is awfully rare. Knowing that they won't give you an up-front answer on a reserve makes me wary of selling with them.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: blackcat on June 14, 2023, 11:15:11 AM
I wouldn't post a bike on there or anywhere without a reserve and it would be the first thing I'd say to them before proceeding. I have a friend who took a loss on a BAT motorcycle sale and he has nothing good to say about them too.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Turin on June 14, 2023, 11:45:27 PM
I don't care for BAT's boiler plate listings, and how they state the obvious. ( sometimes they get things wrong) They are not as picky as they let on. I've sold a few bikes on E-bay, and it's nerve wracking. I'd rather do a classified listing.




Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on June 15, 2023, 07:40:45 AM
I don't care for BAT's boiler plate listings, and how they state the obvious. ( sometimes they get things wrong) They are not as picky as they let on. I've sold a few bikes on E-bay, and it's nerve wracking. I'd rather do a classified listing.

I've always had excellent luck on ebay, as a matter of fact I sold my v65 on there and was absolutely shocked to get $6500 for it.. Never seen a smallblock sell for that much. I paid $3200 for it and owned it 8 years!
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Canuck750 on June 15, 2023, 11:40:04 AM
Not a fan of BAT, bikes don’t seem to go for much, it’s mostly a high end car marketplace IMHO.
I sometimes read the 65 - 70 Shelby Mustang listings, they repeat the same text over and over. I couldn’t afford a 68 Shelby GT500KR forty years ago when I had a chance to buy one and I can’t afford one now either. 😩
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Stretch on June 15, 2023, 12:04:10 PM
That was a nice bike, but as others have stated, $18K is a lot of money for it.

I sold a GB500 on BAT with a reserve - which I set at the average, (excluding
the highest and lowest bids) of those GB500s that had sold before. They couldn't
argue with that logic and they didn't. And it sold for about $500 more than the
average. One knucklehead made a comment or two that probably lowered the
bids a wee bit, but overall I'm well pleased with the result.

I talked to the people at Owl's Head Transportation Museum about listing it
in their fall auction, but they wanted me to list it with no reserve. No way.

                                                              -Stretch
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: cliffrod on June 15, 2023, 12:33:15 PM

I sold a GB500 on BAT with a reserve - which I set at the average, (excluding
the highest and lowest bids) of those GB500s that had sold before. They couldn't
argue with that logic and they didn't. And it sold for about $500 more than the
average.

                                                              -Stretch

^^this^^ is what most people overlook in terms of appraisal valuation.  They only see the big $$$.   As an auctioneer (formerly licensed in both SC and VT), you know that there will be high, medium and low prices.  What really matters in terms of appraisal is the mean or average selling price of multiple relevant comps in a similar setting, not just some crazy price resulting from 2-3 people having a moment..

Auctions are all about the audience and timing.  The same item that sets a record in one venue will often be a huge bargain in another venue where, for whatever reason, the right people are not present, the fervor to own that item has fizzled or both.

Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: blackcat on June 15, 2023, 04:18:55 PM
That was a nice bike, but as others have stated, $18K is a lot of money for it.



The last 1000S that sold on BAT which had more miles and some marginal aesthetics sold for almost $23K without BAT charges. The current sale was under priced by comparison.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: s1120 on June 16, 2023, 07:26:24 AM
Not a fan of BAT, bikes don’t seem to go for much, it’s mostly a high end car marketplace IMHO.
I sometimes read the 65 - 70 Shelby Mustang listings, they repeat the same text over and over. I couldn’t afford a 68 Shelby GT500KR forty years ago when I had a chance to buy one and I can’t afford one now either. 😩

That was my thoughts on a 1000S. I fell in love with it [and moto guzzi as a brand]on a few demo rides back when they were new. At the time, life wasn't in a place that I had that free coin. Fast forward to modern times when I have more extra money to play with, and the prices are still out of reach. Maybe one day ill fall into one, but I cant image the prices falling that much more in the future.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: sdcr on June 16, 2023, 07:39:50 AM
That was my thoughts on a 1000S. I fell in love with it.....and the prices are still out of reach. Maybe one day ill fall into one, but I cant image the prices falling that much more in the future.

Considering that Moto Guzzi built, about 1360, and less than 200 imported to the USA, I doubt that prices will drop. Just saw a friends 1993 1000S. He bought it originally, for $6500. Sold it for $9300, then bought it back for $12000.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: Scout63 on June 16, 2023, 10:54:56 PM
I’ve had mixed results on BAT but their recent refusal to list most bikes with a reserve is souring me.  My G5 did fine at 7500 but my very nice v50 sold low.  It’s the lack of control that is frustrating.
Title: Re: A 1000S from Michigan
Post by: kidsmoke on June 17, 2023, 01:21:40 AM
Considering that Moto Guzzi built, about 1360, and less than 200 imported to the USA, I doubt that prices will drop. Just saw a friends 1993 1000S. He bought it originally, for $6500. Sold it for $9300, then bought it back for $12000.

Really? 200 over the 4 year run? I knew the 93’s were ultra limited (19 in black and green?) but I assumed there were more across the run domestically. Bodes well for those holding’