Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Turin on December 09, 2023, 01:34:14 AM
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1971 V7 sport went for $95,700 all in at the Gooding & Company auction. Since it's not available, I guess it doesn't need to go in the swap meet section.
You have to log into the website to see all the pics and video. Here is a screenshot and the link.
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1971-moto-guzzi-v7-sport-telaio-rosso/ (https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1971-moto-guzzi-v7-sport-telaio-rosso/)
(https://i.ibb.co/wpBQh5G/gooding-and-company.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wpBQh5G)
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Wrong starter.
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WOW cool bike and all, but what pushed it from low 20's range where a lot of the clean ones seem to go for, to almost 100k?
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1587 Dr. John Bridges' quote comes to mind.
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As soon as I get some new velvet ropes to put around mine, I’m headed to the Starbucks..!
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1587 Dr. John Bridges' quote comes to mind.
To paraphrase, “ A savvy seller, and his Guzzi, are soon parted”
Wonder what this one will do….
https://www.ebay.com/itm/116004770519?_trksid=p1.c101732.m5053&_trkparms=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F116004770519%3F_trkparms%3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20230719113457%26meid%3D572377f4ebaa49c19f1dee05e9c69867%26pid%3D101732%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26b%3D1%26sd%3D186201479874%26itm%3D116004770519%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D1%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWebWithV11WebTrimmedV3VisualRankerWithKnnV3AndUltBRecall&_trksid=p1.c101732.m5053&mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m5053.l9429&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=7add2b914dd94d54b0e44b39b1e8463f&bu=43155597067&ut=RU&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20231209065022&segname=11021
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Telaio Rosso premium is very significant. If a it is a genuine T R the premium is probably 90%. I haven't spent too much time studying it, but it has the earmarks of a TR. The stuff dreams are made of.
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Just tap into that 401K...open thine wallet "WIDE"...and bend over!! :laugh: :grin: :wink:
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Well, I'll sell ya my 67 V700 for only $50K and it looks like an old bike. Restoration bull is way out of control.
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Same thing as why a Vincents, Ducati 750SS’, Brough Superiors et al…. Go for stupid money.
They buy them for stupid money because they plan to sell them for stupider money.
A 1978 Honda CBX1000 is no better a bike than it was the day it was built, yet today it’s “value” is orders of magnitude greater.
The machine that drives the purchase price of these relics ever upwards, just produces the food that it needs to further nourish itself. If a bike is bought in the knowlege that it can be on sold for more than it was purchased for, the only person that can lose out is the last person to own it.
You just have to make sure that it isn’t you.
Mr Ponzi can explain it better than me.
Well said. $95k to some people is a different amount of value than $95k to other people.
You can't look at a motorcycle as objective value.
History and the emotional attachment of the buyer always comes into play. People value their own "babies" more than the "babies" of others.
Then there is the financial aspect of the transaction.
The art world and the world of collectables is full of money laundering.
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I doubt that someone buying a bike for this kind of money cares about selling it for a few thousand more.A local friend told me he buys bikes because he enjoys riding and has to put his excess money somewhere ,but realizes they are not really investments.
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You guys do realize how rare and special the Telaio Rosso is?
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From the website of the late Charlie Cole
https://www.zydecoracing.com/TRgearbox.html (https://www.zydecoracing.com/TRgearbox.html)
https://www.zydecoracing.com/original_telaio_rosso.html (https://www.zydecoracing.com/original_telaio_rosso.html)
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You guys do realize how rare and special the Telaio Rosso is?
No Dave I don’t.
But therein lies the point, there are VERY few of them and I own it, so if you want it you will pay what I paid + more.
It would not be a better or worse bike if there were 20,000 of the on the market. The purchase price is not an indication of how good it necessarily is, but how hard it is to procure.
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I never realized how much different this model is from later sports.I readingFaloon I read about the racing debut of the 844 cc prototype in the 1971 24 hour Le Mans when the finished 3rd behind a LaVerda and get ready,a BSA of all things.
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You guys do realize how rare and special the Telaio Rosso is?
Yes, but I didn't think they were worth that much but with so few made it has no base line.
An acquaintance of mine was looking for a 1000S and found a seller who had one and a red framed V7Sport but he insisted on selling both of them, no split sale. So my friend bought both of them and according to him it turned out that it was a Telaio Rosso which the seller didn't know because the prices did not reflect the rarity. This was about 15+ years ago and have no idea what happened to the bikes as I no longer keep in contact with him. The bikes were in NYC.
Looking at those photo's on Charlie Cole's page, this could have been my friends bike.
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Telaio Rosso premium is very significant. If a it is a genuine T R the premium is probably 90%. I haven't spent too much time studying it, but it has the earmarks of a TR. The stuff dreams are made of.
Being a legit TR- especially in largely unrestored condition- is really, really something. Later V7 Sport bikes like mine are still a great bike, but really not in the same league as those first few TR bikes that set the standard.
In the description, it mentions that the seller acquired the bike 30 yrs ago, that it had been a benchmark bike in his collection and had a pic of it parked next to other bikes (in his collection?) like an SFC. He was hardly just flipping bikes. I’m sure it wasn’t bargain cheap 30 yrs ago, but these bikes weren’t bringing crazy money back then. In the early 90’s, the bike market was just beginning to climb. I wouldn’t be surprised if he bought it for $10k, if not less.
I’m curious about the details like big starter, plain petcocks, etc as to how original they are to the bike. I’m not well schooled on TR details. With the TR series being specially assembled and basically pre-production, if those “wrong” parts are actually right in terms of original equipment, it would seem that Guzzi missed the mark by installing fancy parts on later production versions that customers would remove & replace with those same more pedestrian pieces found on the TR bikes.
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The starter, petcocks, and obviously the modern LaFranconi mufflers were not original to the bike. If I had an extra 100K to burn and it was now in my garage I would be replacing those incorrect items that have been added over the years.
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I've got to believe it's the real thing. Too many things right about it. I talked to someone some years back about trying to find fork tubes for one, I think he said there was something different with them from the later Sports. I think it might have been Charlie Cole, because I know he told me about the chrome moly frame being a prime identifier of it being real. I get it that the bike was being ridden, but why not put the stock air intake plenum setup back on it, instead of the K&Ns. And for some reason, I'd bet that the Lafranconi Competiziones weren't available in '71. Why not original Silmoto shark gills? And a Valeo starter? I mean you can still find the original solenoidless Bosch's out there, hell, I'd have sold him one of my spares. I don't know about the lack of an electrovalve petcock on the left side, it could be the early production was that way. At the end of the day none of this matters, he got crazy money for it from someone that probably knows virtually nothing about the bike, and doesn't really care. Just more rich guys beating each other over the heads with their wallets, trying to prove how big their "hands" are. We'll see how many more pop up now for sale, maybe it'll make the rest of our "plebeian" Sports worth more.
TdF
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Something else was bugging me about the bike. The shocks. They're supposed to be Konis I thought. Those sure don't look like the Konis that are on my original Sport. I still don't doubt that it is what they say it is, but for that kind of loot, I'd sure like to see more, if not all the original parts still intact.
TdF
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I don't think a few incorrect replacement parts are a big deal for a bike that's a rider /preserved and not a concours restoration. The video of it being put through it's paces was my favorite part.
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Something else was bugging me about the bike. The shocks. They're supposed to be Konis I thought. Those sure don't look like the Konis that are on my original Sport. I still don't doubt that it is what they say it is, but for that kind of loot, I'd sure like to see more, if not all the original parts still intact.
TdF
No doubt that the original Konis were swapped out at some point. Another improvement that can be made by the new owner that will only enhance this rare jewel.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y0hZxjjG/v700014.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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But what about the cylinders?
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But what about the cylinders?
Too funny, Ben. That thought just crossed my mind and I figured I would post the same query.
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I don't think a few incorrect replacement parts are a big deal for a bike that's a rider /preserved and not a concours restoration. The video of it being put through it's paces was my favorite part.
I say you're right. But if this bike brought this much, what would one in this rider/preserved condition, that HAD all the right stuff on it bring? That is some fun speculation !!
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I say you're right. But if this bike brought this much, what would one in this rider/preserved condition, that HAD all the right stuff on it bring? That is some fun speculation !!
Yes, fun to contemplate what a truly top tier original TR with all the correct bits would bring.
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It becomes an interesting question as to where the lines are between original, modified, restoration or Bitza.
I have noticed that some bikes bring a lot more money if person A did the modification compared to person B.
This can be the case even if the standard of workmanship is the same.
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95k is surprising to me. I might have thought 40 or so on a really good day. The more I think I learn the less I realize I know.
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This was an auction, which means at least two people were on a mission to prove they would spend more than anyone else to win. Making that happen is the goal of every auctioneer. It may raise the retail sales average price of more static transactions but is more likely to be a statistical outlier in terms of market valuation until repeat sales in the same range clarify that it is not an outlier. Until several more real TR bikes sell for the same money, this price has limited relevance. What typically happens is such a sale will flush out more of the same item, held by people who want to sell for similar big money. Unless the second one makes the first one look like crap, the auction price will often fall far short of the first one because those same two buyers no longer have to compete with each other. Where the third one sells (closer to first or second) will help establish the mode and prices will settle into that range.
Members here have hoped their bikes would match or outpace strong auction prices on BaT and elsewhere, only to be disappointed. Before ebay, many people had never bought anything at auction. Now it’s the typical marketplace. Actual sales prices are probably more consistent in general, but some things still go nuts if the right two buyers are competing. When that rare bit you want hits eBay and brings stupid money, watch the next two. After that, the price trend the much easier to predict.
As far as perfect original condition- to me, bolt-on items are not as important as original paint & finish. The number of people who would promptly repaint that TR because of the cracking peeling paint on the tank sadden me. It’s only original once. normal consumables on a ridden machine are easily resolved.
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The number of people who would promptly repaint that TR because of the cracking peeling paint on the tank sadden me. It’s only original once. normal consumables on a ridden machine are easily resolved.
Personally I know of no one that would repaint that bike. And if I did know them I would have to slap them silly. :grin: I'm quite surprised that you know of even a few that would repaint it.
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This is
Personally I know of no one that would repaint that bike. And if I did know them I would have to slap them silly. :grin: I'm quite surprised that you know of even a few that would repaint it.
There’s only one that I know. me. my later plain V7 Sport came to me with a red frame…. We repainted the frame because it was the wrong color red & looked like crap. I left the rest of it alone.
I personally know of no one who would repaint a real TR, but it wouldn’t surprise me because I do know many others who have taken a comparable condition older bike or car-special or not- in similar condition that promptly stripped and repainted it. They may even have no qualms about also using repro bits, lots of ss hardware and such along the way, just to make it pretty. It’s usually followed by profession about how “original” their bike is (and thus better) than surviving bikes that may not be perfect but that are far more original. Rebuilt is not necessarily the same as restored.
I value originality, especially paint, over restoration because it’s hard to seriously abuse or neglect a bike while maintaining the original paint. It has much to do with being educated about how the machine actually was conceived and experienced. The original paint on my FLH is starting to crack like the paint on that TR. the problem is that Most people don’t restore bikes like you or Canuck750 Jim do. Serious restorations like what you two and others do provide legitimate educational value, not the bait & switch of a rebuild being passed off as an accurate restoration.
Restoring my V7 Sport vs leaving it in legitimate 1978 custom trim & condition would make it into just another V7 Sport. At one of our rallies, someone brought a very nicely restored V7 Sport when I had mine there. Not my thing- way too sanitized. survivor bikes can provide a comparable truthful perspective of how a machine was used when it was still relatively new. Thats why I don’t see things like incorrect shocks on an original paint bike being a big deal. It’s great to see that TR was ridden at least some.
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This is
There’s only one that I know. me. my later plain V7 Sport came to me with a red frame…. We repainted the frame because it was the wrong color red & looked like crap. I left the rest of it alone.
I personally know of no one who would repaint a real TR, but it wouldn’t surprise me because I do know many others who have taken a comparable condition older bike or car-special or not- in similar condition that promptly stripped and repainted it. They may even have no qualms about also using repro bits, lots of ss hardware and such along the way, just to make it pretty. It’s usually followed by profession about how “original” their bike is (and thus better) than surviving bikes that may not be perfect but that are far more original. Rebuilt is not necessarily the same as restored.
I value originality, especially paint, over restoration because it’s hard to seriously abuse or neglect a bike while maintaining the original paint. It has much to do with being educated about how the machine actually was conceived and experienced. The original paint on my FLH is starting to crack like the paint on that TR. the problem is that Most people don’t restore bikes like you or Canuck750 Jim do. Serious restorations like what you two and others do provide legitimate educational value, not the bait & switch of a rebuild being passed off as an accurate restoration.
Restoring my V7 Sport vs leaving it in legitimate 1978 custom trim & condition would make it into just another V7 Sport. At one of our rallies, someone brought a very nicely restored V7 Sport when I had mine there. Not my thing- way too sanitized. survivor bikes can provide a comparable truthful perspective of how a machine was used when it was still relatively new. Thats why I don’t see things like incorrect shocks on an original paint bike being a big deal. It’s great to see that TR was ridden at least some.
In the car world we call that Over restored. I spent many years in the Mustang end of the hobby, and its really almost sad to see what some have done to nice driver class cars. Most full customs are closer to stock then some of those that are "Restored"