Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jrt on January 09, 2024, 07:37:23 AM
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I have my doubts, but I'm not above rumor-mongering.
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-retro-roadster-spy-shots/
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Looks like an Aprilia, "YES"...but a V-twin Moto Guzzi..."NO" :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh: :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/q7ShJPy/Screenshot-2024-01-09-at-6-48-42-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/q7ShJPy)
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That just doesn't add up. Maybe it's part of a new entry level brand. Moprilia? Apruzzi?
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Prototype extra shock on front fork is maybe just an engineering work around for more dampening??
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It looks like some sort of an experiment with all kinds of parts pulled from everywhere. Kind of like when I was having a /2 painted while needing my basic transportation. I worked in a bike shop so I had access to lots of parts. It had a Honda tank, motocross front fender, Harley style side mounted tail light and license plate plus more. It was a real abomination but it got me around.
kk
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Prototype extra shock on front fork is maybe just an engineering work around for more dampening??
Extra shock? The blue thing is a suspension travel sensor used during the prototype stages to see how well the suspension is working.
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Oh Ok, Charlie now I see there is one on the rear also.
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I've been expecting a non v-twin Moto Guzzinsince the debut of Aprilia's Shiver. I'm surprised it still hasn't happened yet.
-AJ
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I’d have no qualms if Guzzi added another engine style—as the saying has gone for the past 40 years or so now, “if that German brand can do it, why can’t the Italian Eagle?”
Maybe they’re going to use this opportunity to “go back to their roots” before the V-twin. Or wait—didn’t they have a badged parallel twin in the 60s or 70s?
So long as the V-twin exists prominently in some way, and preferably air- or air/oil-cooled (just like ze Germans!), I’m happy enough.
All that said, maybe it’ll be a “modern classic” styled Aprilia rocking a V85 tank. Don’t forget that Guzzi bikes have shared a number of parts with Aprilia models for years now.
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Maybe they’re going to use this opportunity to “go back to their roots” before the V-twin. Or wait—didn’t they have a badged parallel twin in the 60s or 70s?
Truly "back to their roots" would be a horizontal single. The parallel twins (and inline fours) during the late '70s and early '80s were all rebadged Benellis.
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Can you imagine the liability issues with a modern bacon slicer? LOL. I'd totally buy one.
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Can you imagine the liability issues with a modern bacon slicer? LOL. I'd totally buy one.
The Nuovo Falcone still had an external flywheel, but under a cover. The same could be done again. The aftermarket could sell "flywheel gazers". :grin:
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The Nuovo Falcone still had an external flywheel, but under a cover. The same could be done again. The aftermarket could sell "flywheel gazers". :grin:
The Nuevo's just...don't do it for me. I do like the idea of flywheel gazers. That's hilarious.
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Dont manufacturers usually hide new test vehicles under random under parts so you can't tell what they actually look like? My guess is that this is a new Aprilia and they slapped some Guzzi parts on it for the public roads. In saying that I would love an entry level Guzzi single but it would probably need to be built in Asia (Piaggio factory in Indonesia?) to be price compeitive. Would love to see something competitive with the new Ducati single as well so probably something oversquare 700cc+ plus some smaller displacement models for the Asian market
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"With multiple Moto Guzzi styling elements" ???
I don't see it...
Looks like an Aprilia naked, to me.
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Exactly what I was thinking........... ...........
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Piaggio also owns Derbi and Gilera. Maybe others too? Slap one of those badges on there.
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aprilia have already released parallel twins "half of the V4" it makes sense that it would be a variant of that
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Piaggio also owns Derbi and Gilera. Maybe others too? Slap one of those badges on there.
Laverda too. "The New Laverda 500 Alpino". :grin:
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"With multiple Moto Guzzi styling elements" ???
I don't see it...
Looks like an Aprilia naked, to me.
That's what I think too. Wouldn't be their first with a traditional (ehem - PROPER) headlight.
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I really dont see it. OK, the tank side looks a tiny bit like a guzzi.. but as was said, I think its just random parts from the rack tossed on to a new frame/engine concept for aprilia. FAR more likely that they would have a more entry level model like that, then MG would. It doesnt really tick any of the Guzzi boxes.
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The crankcase shape looks like a TNT 1130 Benelli.
(https://i.ibb.co/QkQKBJm/IMG-4601.png) (https://ibb.co/QkQKBJm)
(https://i.ibb.co/60WNs11/IMG-4602.png) (https://ibb.co/60WNs11)
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I really dont see it. OK, the tank side looks a tiny bit like a guzzi.. but as was said, I think its just random parts from the rack tossed on to a new frame/engine concept for aprilia. FAR more likely that they would have a more entry level model like that, then MG would. It doesnt really tick any of the Guzzi boxes.
Well said. Marketing that bike as a Moto Guzzi seems pointless.
Moto Guzzi, like Harley and BMW have a engine type brand that is almost a religious cult. Deviating from that engine type doesn't convince their core customer base. The idea of an "entry level" Moto Guzzi is a strange idea. Especially when one can see the same engine in models marketed with other Manufacturers names owned by the Mother company.
I can understand Harley or BMW trying to fill gaps in their product lineups, but for Piaggio to do the same?
Maybe the name brand Moto Guzzi is understood differently in Europe than in the US.
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
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That understanding is totally generational ...to the average 30 somethings they will look at this and just possibly think that it's a guzzi that they can afford or are willing to buy.Then if all goes well and they become hooked then their next bike might be a guzzi too ...only the hard core enthusiasts will look at that and rant.
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That understanding is totally generational ...to the average 30 somethings they will look at this and just possibly think that it's a guzzi that they can afford or are willing to buy.Then if all goes well and they become hooked then their next bike might be a guzzi too ...only the hard core enthusiasts will look at that and rant.
And just think—the NEW generation of curmudgeons will all be small block owners.
…big block blood boils.
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When BMW brought out the brick they said that was the future direction of the company, opposed engines were on the way out. Then the screaming started. Well we know the rest. :cheesy:
kk
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That understanding is totally generational ...to the average 30 somethings they will look at this and just possibly think that it's a guzzi that they can afford or are willing to buy.Then if all goes well and they become hooked then their next bike might be a guzzi too ...only the hard core enthusiasts will look at that and rant.
You may be right. A lot of people out there have no technical knowledge what soever. Some don't know the difference between air cooling and water cooling, carburetors or fuel injectors, chain drive, belt drive or shaft drive, etc. They might not know that the same bike can be sold under several different Manufacturer labels. Hard to believe that these people will be brand loyal as they get older, but I may be wrong.
I think the buyers who were brand loyal probably went almost extinct shortly after the internet became a great place to buy stuff! I think that most of the buyers who had/have a fanatical, cult like sense of brand loyalty, were born before 1960. We can remember the stepping stone lineups (60's, 80's, 100's, 125's, 175's,250's, 350's, 500's, 650's, etc.) that, at least the big four Japanese manufacturers offered year after year.
It will be fun to watch.
Of course, look at the Husky701/KTM690 clones. They probably increase revenue for both companies. It will be fun to watch.
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Given Guzzi's GP past, it would be cool if the second GP team was branded Guzzi (like Gas Gas) and we had a version of that RSV/Tuono 1000-1100 V4 on the floor room.
Even a limited edition GP model replica or something.
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A Guzzi (at least to me) has two definable traits*. It’s V motor and being made in Italy. This bike has neither. The V motor is gone and it’s made in India.
* I could say it used to be 3… Being air cooled. Suppose I could make the jump to water in the block but not a wholly Indian sourced Guzzi. That chasm is too far for me to leap.
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Guzzi was much more than a V twin though Frulk.As to the place of manufacture that has shifted to branding since many may years ago. Indian badged Vincents and Enfields, jAP and Villiers engines used by multitudes of different chassis manufacturers since motorcyling was a teenager....nothing new has happened recently really apart from the technology seriously advancing.
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That understanding is totally generational ...to the average 30 somethings they will look at this and just possibly think that it's a guzzi that they can afford or are willing to buy.Then if all goes well and they become hooked then their next bike might be a guzzi too ...only the hard core enthusiasts will look at that and rant.
And that makes a lot of sense for the bigger brands, and has worked well for them. With how few bikes Guzzi brings over, to how few dealers they have, I just dont see the foot traffic to bring the new motorcycle riders to the door with cash in hand. This is all looking at it from someone in the US though.. and over seas might be different. A new rider is odds are going to get whats local, or at least a brand that their buddys ride. Also I think they will only be mostly compeating with themselves. They sell a LOT of V7's to new riders.
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Given that piaggio is such a big company worldwide I think they are clearly looking at expanding the Guzzi brand beyond it's current boundaries.They already achieved a good expansion over the last 10 or so years updating and modernizing the existing platforms and if this model does go to market I think it's clearly aimed at another segment compared to the V7 range
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It will be a fascinating experiment.
I think at least here in the US a lot of the "true blue brand loyalists" have jumped ship due to ever changing tech (either due to functional improvement),regulation, or knowing that most complicated products contain components that are made by other companies than the main OEM.
I don't hear a lot of "Real Harleys/BMW's/Moto Guzzi's "are made of cast iron/Airheads/air cooled" much any more. Could be a change in generational attitudes as much as anything. Those who served in WWII were probably the most reluctant to buy anything made in Japan or Germany. I think the computer age killed a lot of the old brand loyal mentality.
For a few years the old school Harley riders claimed the EVO engines made out of aluminum were not "real Harleys."
Most buyers have made the transition to disc brakes without much regret. Same with air cooling to water cooling.
I suspect environmental regulations will make air cooled engines amost extinct.
It will an individual decision made by aeach individual buyer. The individual tinkerers might not buy into the new products, cause that is a preferred form of recreation. "Better or worse? Meh! this is what I like!!"
"Hard to predict, the future it is. Always emotion."
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This has been going on for a long time. A lot of manufacturers have purchased parts or sub-assemblies from other companies. It is not commonly known but Henry purchased the engine a parts of the drivetrain from the Dodge brothers for the Model T. John and Horace decided to build their own cars and trucks after seeing Henry getting rich on their expertise. Another little known fact, the Dodge Bros loaned Henry the money for his third attempt to start a car company. Maybe Ford should have been another division of Chrysler. :evil:
kk
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To me, you can put almost any MFG brand on that tank and no one would be the wiser. It’s no more a MG than a Kawasaki.
The engine is a brand identifier for me. BMW boxer, HD V twin, MG longitudinal crank V twin, Triumph parallel twin or triple, Honda pick one.
This bike is no more an MG than it is a ……..
If it comes out as an MG I wouldn’t finish the article, it’s a meh for me.
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To me, you can put almost any MFG brand on that tank and no one would be the wiser. It’s no more a MG than a Kawasaki.
The engine is a brand identifier for me. BMW boxer, HD V twin, MG longitudinal crank V twin, Triumph parallel twin or triple, Honda pick one.
This bike is no more an MG than it is a ……..
If it comes out as an MG I wouldn’t finish the article, it’s a meh for me.
Agreed. Hard to get excited about the New BSA single. It is only a tank badge.
Sales departments can generate some lengthy verbiage though.
Same with the new/old Triumphs/Kawasakis/etc. Although I do think a lot of the new retro bikes look better than their contemporary counterparts.
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I couldn't care less about who makes what. I just have to like the bike.
-AJ
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Don’t forget that Guzzi bikes have shared a number of parts with Aprilia models for years now.
They never shared the good ones..Same years (2007) but dang the Aprilia got the nicer stuff.. Although the Guzzi was not chopped liver either.. :evil:
I never thought i would like a 60 degree twin as much as a 90. but they sure grow on you..
(https://i.ibb.co/ZhVJDvp/PICT0003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZhVJDvp)
best free image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZWf8M27/PICT0004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZWf8M27)
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I couldn't care less about who makes what. I just have to like the bike.
-AJ
That's the voice of reason...well said AJ
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Piaggio has been doing this nonsense for a long time, Gilera being the best example, starting in 1969: the storied and once valuable marque was eventually reduced to a badge on cheaply made scooters, and is now now dead. Piaggio has no basic ethos and no long term strategic vision.
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Now all I need is a dealership within a 100 miles that can at least pretend to provide service and support. Im always jealous of you guys that live within striking distance of a competent dealer.
Can't tell you how many Pop Up dealerships have appeared and disappeared around me. IM still a loyalist, just alone in the wilderness.
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I thought you had one there. Same guy that opened the shop in Douglasville Ga.
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I thought you had one there. Same guy that opened the shop in Douglasville Ga.
Already Gone......it's just Ducati and KTM
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Too bad about Guzzi dealerships being so few and far between. Best I have experienced in person was Ned's Auto and Cycle in Riverside, IA. Middle of nowhere, but Jim (of Ned's) is just the best fellow in the world. The descriptions I read of Enzo sound like the same kind of solid person as Jim so I'm sure some good people are still out there. Ned was about retired by the time I moved to Iowa (1997?), but that guy was a hoot. Jim, his son, took on the business and did it proud. I'm now 4 hours from Riverside, IA., but I would drive there in a heartbeat if Ned still sold/worked on Guzzi's. I think- and hope- he is retired now. He deserves some time for himself and family after all he has given for others.
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Now all I need is a dealership within a 100 miles that can at least pretend to provide service and support. Im always jealous of you guys that live within striking distance of a competent dealer.
Touche’
I have to be content with Pete Roper a short ride away… :rolleyes:
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Already Gone......it's just Ducati and KTM
Seriously! I thought he was a Piaggio super store.
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My local dealership, 85 miles away, just recently pissed me off in the biggest way. I will not even take my new Mandello in for it's first service, coerced, even though it is paid for. Looking in the manual not much more than an oil and filter change anyway. I intend to do a bit more than that, final drive etc.
kk
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I have one relatively new Guzzi dealer 2.2 miles from my house and another longer established dealer 31 miles from my house. I don’t trust either not to leave my bikes worse than they found them, because in my experience that’s what they do, and know that the longer established dealer will produce the most amazing bills you’ll ever see. It annoys me that my V85TT has to go to them to get the service light turned off after I do the work, and I’m happy and relieved they manage to do that without breaking anything.
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Touche’
I have to be content with Pete Roper a short ride away… :rolleyes:
I thought Roper retired?
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Already Gone......it's just Ducati and KTM
Seriously! I thought he was a Piaggio super store.
The Douglasville store is the Piaggio MotoPlex. The savannah store has CFMoto in addition to Piaggio brands.
Savannah is a long way from Charleston.
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The Douglasville store is the Piaggio MotoPlex. The savannah store has CFMoto in addition to Piaggio brands.
And neither store is particularly interested in letting you test ride a bike. A friend tried to test ride a new Mandello in Georgia only to be told that it might rain so no ride available and another friend tried to test ride a new Mandello at CF Moto with a no way your going to test ride a bike response. And both people were interested in buying a bike.
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And neither store is particularly interested in letting you test ride a bike. A friend tried to test ride a new Mandello in Georgia only to be told that it might rain so no ride available and another friend tried to test ride a new Mandello at CF Moto with a no way your going to test ride a bike response. And both people were interested in buying a bike.
Some off the best anecdotal evidence of how much the world has changed, and how much people have changed since the 1970's.
I remember when motorcycle shops stocked brand demo models, and no one at the shop cared if you had a motorcycle license, or even if you were old enough to have a driver's license.
How human behavior influences businesses and insurance companies.
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Why so UGLY ?
It must be a joke ?
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Some off the best anecdotal evidence of how much the world has changed, and how much people have changed since the 1970's.
I remember when motorcycle shops stocked brand demo models, and no one at the shop cared if you had a motorcycle license, or even if you were old enough to have a driver's license.
How human behavior influences businesses and insurance companies.
Liability and and the fact that people crash demos has pretty much ended demos at the dealerships unless a factory demo truck comes to town.
Don't blame it on the dealers. Blame it on insurance and the average idiot who comes in to test motorcycles.
When I was in the business 25 years ago, the incentive from Triumph was only $600 for a demo. That's right, The dealer was only provided a $600 discount on the bikes designated as demos. We had Triumph and Ducati demos crashed and tipped over. Overall, providing demos was a hassle, and that was 25 years ago.
So, if you want to demo bikes, seek out the factory demo trucks at the rallies and events.
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Different areas different rules I guess.
I never had an issue with a test ride at my local BMW/Triumph dealership, in fact they encouraged test rides.
Proof of license and insurance was all that was required. They would even provide gear if needed. Pillions were also allowed.