Wildguzzi.com
General Category => Bike Builds, Rebuilds And Restorations Only => Topic started by: jamesfjamesf on March 06, 2024, 08:20:04 AM
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Hi all...new guy here...I picked up a 1981 V50 III which has has 3 previous owners since new, all of whom I know, so even though they are all of the age where memory isn't their most remarkable quality, I have an idea of it's history :laugh:
It's mostly stock except for an electronic ignition, but sat unused for years until the previous owner bought it, and he and his son got it going well enough to just ride it, so I know all the major bits are fine, it just needs a lot of the perishables replaced. My main project focus is a custom paint job in V7 Sport red & green. The frame is at the powdercoaters now and I just handed off the tank, sidecovers, and fenders to the local votech school for painting (for the cost of the paint!). Given the free labor I gave them the dented spare tank instead of the original brown tank which is in such good condition I'll keep it in case I come across someone who needs a brown one.
I've been toning my biceps reading Guzziology and will be following his recommendations on what mods to do and what to leave alone, mostly. I have absolutely no patience and tore into this the second it showed up, so a few things could have been done with less aggravation but this is not a new methodology for me :laugh:
Has anyone here done a V50 rebuild? I don't see many mentions either here or out on the net in general. Most are big twins. Where do we get OEM/NOS parts? I've tried MG Cycle and Guzzibits but they don't have what I need - a taillight lens gasket, swingarm spacer (MIA). And of course tires are NLA in the stock sizes which I can't get a consistent info on- it seems most say 90/90 and 100/90 once converted to metric, but I read the latter is too big to get past the rear drive without airing it down. I'd love to hear some real life experience with these sized on the small twins. I can get scooter tires in the next size down which doesn't see too inappropriate :grin:
More pics as the bits come in and get rejoined. Most now are for "where the hell did this go?" recordkeeping.
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/6NX42Wd/IMG-7553.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6NX42Wd)
(https://i.ibb.co/gVTCnzv/IMG-7554.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVTCnzv)
(https://i.ibb.co/cXWxRRx/IMG-7635-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cXWxRRx)
(https://i.ibb.co/Cvr25Q8/IMG-7637-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Cvr25Q8)
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New paint is a great move,I thought the brown T3 I had was the ugliest Guzzi color but yours takes the prize.You will have a fun bike when finished.
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I like the brown, always have since I saw the V50 III in that color new at my local dealer back in the day.
Parts for the early small-blocks aren't as easy to find as parts for the big-blocks of the same period. Harper's may have some hard-to-find bits. Here's the swingarm "spacer": https://harpermoto.com/products/washer-35214300 . The gasket for the taillight lens can be 3D printed. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5608853 You might also want an oil filler plug/dipstick wrench: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3992120
I used 90/90 and 100/90 tires on mine. It seems that no matter what size rear you use, it will need to be aired down to squeeze in.
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Thanks! I'd forgotten about Harper's. Serendipitously, the friend I bought the bike from used the $$ to buy a 3d printer :grin:
Several local friends have said they also like the brown, but the 70s V7 livery is something I've wanted to do for years. With the rear fender needing repair from the turn signal stalk cracking issue, and the stock brown side covers unusable, it's a reasonable candidate.
How does a hard plastic surface seal? I.e. how is it different from not using a gasket at all?
thanks,
jim
I like the brown, always have since I saw the V50 III in that color new at my local dealer back in the day.
Parts for the early small-blocks aren't as easy to find as parts for the big-blocks of the same period. Harper's may have some hard-to-find bits. Here's the swingarm "spacer": https://harpermoto.com/products/washer-35214300 . The gasket for the taillight lens can be 3D printed. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5608853 You might also want an oil filler plug/dipstick wrench: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3992120
I used 90/90 and 100/90 tires on mine. It seems that no matter what size rear you use, it will need to be aired down to squeeze in.
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Congrats on your project - looking forward to follow the renovation :boozing:
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How does a hard plastic surface seal? I.e. how is it different from not using a gasket at all?
I've never tried the 3D printed one myself, I just assumed that it's printed in a more pliable plastic. The original didn't do the greatest job after a few years, so I just leave it out. One could be cut out of thin rubber, foam or even gasket material.
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I'm on the fence regarding painting the swingarm and wheels or just leaving them aluminum colored after blasting off the light blue color. Has anyone stripped the cast aluminum wheels and just left them uncoated? How bad do they get? Is Alumaclear a decent low effort coating?
thanks,
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/kXGgkvt/IMG-7650.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kXGgkvt)
(https://i.ibb.co/jh87Rm8/IMG-7651.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jh87Rm8)
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I had the swingarm on my V65 blasted and powder coated.
The hardest decision was what color paint to pick.
The swingarm gets hit with road dirt and the powder coating is holding up well.
The shop I used didn't cover all the holes well enough, so I had to chase the pivot pin threads with a tap.
I would use paint stripper instead of blasting.
I've been thinking about doing the rims as well, but a good cleaning and buffing will do it for me.
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The parts are back from the powder coater. I shoud have gone with my first color instinct of a darker red, but this color matched the V7 Sport pictures I saw, and it's called "Tomato Red", so....
Got the steering head assembled with new bearings into the old races, which I swapped top for bottom. Feels fine, no notches.
The ujoint had some play so I had to order one. If I were smarter I'd have checked it when I disassembled it rather than tonight during reassembly. I found one at http://www.theujointstore.com, hopefully it shows up in reasonable time. Weather was nice here for a few days so I'm getting impatient even though the body parts are probably 3 weeks out.
Someone added extra washers to the rear drive to swingarm connection. I looked on Schnoor's website and the smaller ones (13mm o.d.) are spec'd for M8 bolts. No idea why the 15mm ones were also on there. Has anyone seen this?
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/jMhdkF1/IMG-7658.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jMhdkF1)
(https://i.ibb.co/LC1Vyj9/IMG-7660.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LC1Vyj9)
(https://i.ibb.co/TM2DmSM/IMG-7661.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TM2DmSM)
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Someone added extra washers to the rear drive to swingarm connection. I looked on Schnoor's website and the smaller ones (13mm o.d.) are spec'd for M8 bolts. No idea why the 15mm ones were also on there. Has anyone seen this?
The flat washers are so that the schnorr washers don't embed themselves into the soft alloy swingarm.
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That sounds reasonable, except the bigger washers are also Schnoors, and they aren't on the fiche at Harper's. Is it something that was discovered by users afterwards? Should I replace them with flats?
jim
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(https://i.ibb.co/gVTCnzv/IMG-7554.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVTCnzv)
I like that color, especially with the color of the stripes. Very unique, very European.
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That sounds reasonable, except the bigger washers are also Schnoors, and they aren't on the fiche at Harper's. Is it something that was discovered by users afterwards? Should I replace them with flats?
jim
Unless they're serrated on both sides, they aren't schnorr washers. The ones that I've found on small-blocks are just fairly soft flat washers that the schnorr washers have left an imprint on.
One thing I learned early in Guzzi ownership is that the manuals don't always agree with how the bikes were actually built.
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I think I have read somewhere that there is a tractor or Fiat u-joint that is cheaper than stock, but also much stronger?
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Unless they're serrated on both sides, they aren't schnorr washers. The ones that I've found on small-blocks are just fairly soft flat washers that the schnorr washers have left an imprint on.
One thing I learned early in Guzzi ownership is that the manuals don't always agree with how the bikes were actually built.
Aha! Thanks! All 4 happened to land "imprint up" on the workbench so I assumed.... :rolleyes: I assembled it tonight (replacing that aluminum one) and added a bit of loctite for good measure. The manual doesn't list a torque spec so I used 28.8, the generic M* spec.
jim
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I like that color, especially with the color of the stripes. Very unique, very European.
It probably would have grown on me, but I'm pretty sure I'll like the new color scheme much better. I've seen R bikes in that brown and I think they're much more suited to it.
jim
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It probably would have grown on me, but I'm pretty sure I'll like the new color scheme much better. I've seen R bikes in that brown and I think they're much more suited to it.
jim
Yeah, sometimes pictures can hide ugliness or beauty. Nothing like seeing the bike in person.
To my eye, that color was something between a brown and an olive green.
In any case, you will have a cool, unique bike, that is personalized.
That is never a bad thing!! :grin:
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I nearly bought one when they were new. They were "root beer brown", no olive tint or anything else. My white V50 III was repainted from that color.
(https://i.ibb.co/FxWFrb3/V50-003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FxWFrb3)
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I nearly bought one when they were new. They were "root beer brown", no olive tint or anything else. My white V50 III was repainted from that color.
(https://i.ibb.co/FxWFrb3/V50-003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FxWFrb3)
Thanks. That what I originally thought. The picture is misleading to my eye.
That bike looks good in white with a red & green stripe also. White is very under rated as a motorcycle color IMO.
The only other bike I know of that used "root beer brown" as a color with the first Kawasaki Z1's.
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Contrary to my usual M.O. I've been slowly putting the bike back together as I get time here and there. I failed to adequately document the wiring harness routing so that has taken quite a bit of time to get in place, and I'm only about 60% done. I'm waiting for the bodywork to get finished at the painter's before I can install the rear mudguard which holds the toolkit which holds the diode board. Rims are (still!) at the powdercoaters but tires have arrived. And the exhaust needs replacing but I haven't decided which one yet. Likely Keihan, they seem to have the best reputation over the years. We've had a few nice days already here in the northeast USA so I'm getting antsy. :laugh:
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/5nTcycF/IMG-7691.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5nTcycF)
(https://i.ibb.co/NYs8z6K/IMG-7692.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NYs8z6K)
(https://i.ibb.co/MBr0h9Q/IMG-7693.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MBr0h9Q)
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No fan of wiring. I began by mixing parts of the old harness with most of the newer harness when I built a Virago consisting of part Gen 1 and part Gen 2. Last year, I simplified it and made a full new loom. Time consuming, frustrating - and satisfying when all work the first time you turn on the ignition :boozing:
Sorry for the hijack - please let me know if you want me to delete!
Starting off
(https://onedrive.live.com/embed?resid=C025BCB1CF0F6A8A%217399&authkey=%21AL4RdaJOqvRdi7Y&width=1024)
On my way - hard to believe I had by then eliminated a lot of relays and wires
(https://onedrive.live.com/embed?resid=C025BCB1CF0F6A8A%218671&authkey=%21AO5uh1g_9TsQ6gU&width=1024)
(https://onedrive.live.com/embed?resid=C025BCB1CF0F6A8A%218669&authkey=%21ACNayfrwBAHCSsU&height=1024)
Finished
(https://onedrive.live.com/embed?resid=C025BCB1CF0F6A8A%218771&authkey=%21AGoC7R2PAot8diA&width=1024)
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that wiring simplification looks like it was well worth the effort.
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I got most of the body parts back this morning (tank needed a clearcoat touchup which they're doing today) and it looks fantastic. This is the '96 Nissan Micra "Yellow Olive" (code ER4), but I think the current Kia or Ford version would have worked just as well. Also had the rims blasted and matte clearcoated and they really match the frame's red nicely.
Now I just need to get over my mental hump of paying $700 for a new nice exhaust....I'll see how the black looks but I know I'll like the Keihans 1000 times better.
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/4gSj0tR/IMG-7705.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4gSj0tR)
(https://i.ibb.co/zZ97Q1t/IMG-7706.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zZ97Q1t)
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Coming along really nicely :thumb:
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Striking color. Almost like the V7 special.
What did you end up doing to the wheels? They look like new.
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Striking color. Almost like the V7 special.
What did you end up doing to the wheels? They look like new.
The V7 coloring was my inspiration. Once I get it all together I'll look into editing an original decal into "V5 Sport" :-)
The rims I just had them blasted and matte clearcoated. I was skeptical since I didn't know what the aluminum would look like underneath the paint, or if it would discolor, but I'm super happy with how they came out, especially with how well they match the red.
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/Lpq5Vgg/IMG-7707.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lpq5Vgg)
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Please tell me you plan to take the engine back out to clean it...
Do you also have the Dyna pickup or the old points?
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Please tell me you plan to take the engine back out to clean it...
Do you also have the Dyna pickup or the old points?
Dyna pickup.
I tried about 655 different chemicals on the engine and each one did a little bit but the aluminum kept turning the same dark color so I gave up. I briefly investigated vapor blasting it as a unit, and a friend in the business told me there was no way to keep the grit out of the openings. I absolutely did not want to disassemble a working engine just for aesthetics. Maybe next winter I'll look into making a smaller, lower pressure vapor blaster, or maybe soda blast it in someone's back 40. But cleaning an engine, man once you start you have to do it all, every part, or else it looks like you got lazy (which I am :grin:).
jim
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I realize now they are stains, not dirt.
My engine was painted and oil had penetrated and stained the aluminum.
The only way I could get them off was bead blasting.
With Gorilla tape and not shooting directly at the covered openings, nothing got inside the engine.
It is a messy job and I wouldn't try it again.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=102352.msg1701449#msg1701449
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I spent the past 3-4 days trying to get the rear fender mounted so that it would be isolated from the frame and there would be no torque on it from the triangular shape of the fender wall. In addition to fabricating sleeves with grommets and drilling out the fender holes, I had to bend the bender mounting brackets back into position so they matched the inside angle of the fender wall.
If I knew it would take this long I'd have ordered the grommet and sleeve form Harper's for $25 and waited the week for shipping. I'm satisfied with the end result but not proud of the hack. Also not impressed with what was clearly a hack from Guzzi getting the fender mounted. But I had about a CC of Simichrome left to polish up the grab bar and the 70s vibe makes me smile.
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/S68WQq5/IMG-7720.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S68WQq5)
(https://i.ibb.co/6Yfq3dn/IMG-7721.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Yfq3dn)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZXxSh7F/IMG-7722.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZXxSh7F)
(https://i.ibb.co/d6vhR12/my70s-Guzzi.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d6vhR12)
direct english film (https://imgbb.com/)
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I'm close enough that I can call it finished. It still needs some kind of graphics (the white metal emblems for the fuel tank don't match anymore), and the Napoleon barend mirrors don't fit (18mm rubber vs 17mm ID of the bars, plus whatever I'll remember as soon as I start riding it :-)
Thanks a ton to the people that helped me out on this project. I couldn't have done it with out you.
Hoping to get it out for s test ride in the next day or two.
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/yYpCqwd/IMG-8045.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yYpCqwd)
(https://i.ibb.co/tHSMwbJ/IMG-8046.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tHSMwbJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/C9sfwh6/IMG-8047.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C9sfwh6)
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That's brilliant! There's a long-standing small block email group that's now at Moto-Guzzi-SmallBlock@groups.io. Back in the day it was very active. As a long time v50 owner I'm thrilled to see someone giving one some love. Been long since I've done anything to mine WildGuzzi deleted my account!
(https://i.ibb.co/wL19J8b/Capture.png) (https://ibb.co/wL19J8b)
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That's brilliant! There's a long-standing small block email group that's now at Moto-Guzzi-SmallBlock@groups.io. Back in the day it was very active. As a long time v50 owner I'm thrilled to see someone giving one some love. Been long since I've done anything to mine WildGuzzi deleted my account!
(https://i.ibb.co/wL19J8b/Capture.png) (https://ibb.co/wL19J8b)
Agreed! A fine job indeed that is not performed often these days.
WG occasionally deletes accounts that have not been active for a period of time. It is best to pop in and post something every 6 months or so to keep from getting swept out!
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Legnano green, nice color! Great work! Contrasting graphics can make a big improvement:
(https://i.ibb.co/Fnyq7vt/457-A65-E5-CB09-436-A-B0-A0-E0-EFEA610393.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fnyq7vt)
:smiley: MGCycle usually stocks the original V7 sport decals, which might look great.
Moto
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Thanks all! Just after posting that I had trouble with the handgrips staying on with my usual hairspray trick. I left it overnight and the next day I forgot all about the trouble with the grips and when I started rolling it off the workstand it got away from me and went over, with the left grip still in my hand. I gave up for a while...
Got it back together over the past week (it needed new gauge bezels and a new turn signal, so I converted it to even more 70s with chrome bezels and round turn signals). I took it for a short test ride yesterday and of course there are things that need attention - the main one is that the headlight bracket is very loose on the rubbers that go atop the forks. Is there a bushing or insert that goes in there to give a tighter fit? It feels like the whole dash is going to come off when I hit bumps.
Legnano green, nice color! Great work! Contrasting graphics can make a big improvement:
:smiley: MGCycle usually stocks the original V7 sport decals, which might look great.
Moto
Thanks, I plan on doing that once I know all the mechanicals are done :-)
(https://i.ibb.co/MBvZ3Q1/IMG-8181.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MBvZ3Q1)
(https://i.ibb.co/LNzd63r/IMG-8172.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNzd63r)
(https://i.ibb.co/3s28YhL/IMG-8186.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3s28YhL)
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...the headlight bracket is very loose on the rubbers that go atop the forks. Is there a bushing or insert that goes in there to give a tighter fit? It feels like the whole dash is going to come off when I hit bumps.
Yes, there is a stack of hardware and bushings that you can see in the clipping here from the parts manual. Basically it's two sets of # 5, tapered rubber bushings. These are put above and below the dash and clamped together with the central screw and a spacer. What you're looking at is the parts manual for the T3, but the dash you have is just a later version of it. I expect MGCycle has those tapered bushings but similar ones are in the hardware store.
(https://i.ibb.co/JBMCw8q/IMG-1228.png) (https://ibb.co/JBMCw8q)
Here they are. You need four and then you need odds and ends to complete the stack.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_descripti on=1&keyword=10502250
(https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=10502250)
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Yes, there is a stack of hardware and bushings that you can see in the clipping here from the parts manual. Basically it's two sets of # 5, tapered rubber bushings. These are put above and below the dash and clamped together with the central screw and a spacer.
I'm pretty sure what you point out is the mount for the gauge cluster to the headlight bracket. It's hard to see but I looked at a fiche from Harper's and it looks the same. What I'm referring to is the headlight bracket to the forks:
(https://i.ibb.co/q07fgvR/Screenshot-2024-08-14-at-10-20-17-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/q07fgvR)
#33 I have, and then the ears get hung on top of that, but it's way too loose. And #33 has a hole in the center where I'd expect a fork cap to locate into, but my fork caps are smooth on top. It's possible I just need to bend the ears so they're tighter when I slide the bottom tab (held by #49) into place and screw it down.
jim
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jim
[/quote]
I misunderstood, sorry. I don't know how your headlight bracket mounts.
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Not sure if any of these help
https://oem-parts.hu/en/parts/motoguzzi/v-35/1979/v-35-v-50-acc-elettronica-350-500-1977-1980-emea-d-f/frame-front-rear-shock-absorber
https://oem-parts.hu/en/parts/motoguzzi/v-35/1979/v-35-v-50-acc-elettronica-350-500-1977-1980-emea-d-f/frame-headlights-horn
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325759782113
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Not sure if any of these help
No, but I was able to adjust things so that the forks, whose caps are also the top of the new Bitubo dampers I found out, are tight to the headlight bracket. While I had things apart I also added LEDs to the dash since only the Gen light worked. Much better! Thanks to WG for the ancient thread that pointed me to Super Bright LEDs . com site. Hoping to test it out once I get some time; I'm thinking the fork brace might have been adjusted poorly and causing some stiction.
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/4VnPKFr/IMG-8188.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4VnPKFr)
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No, but I was able to adjust things so that the forks, whose caps are also the top of the new Bitubo dampers I found out, are tight to the headlight bracket. While I had things apart I also added LEDs to the dash since only the Gen light worked. Much better! Thanks to WG for the ancient thread that pointed me to Super Bright LEDs . com site. Hoping to test it out once I get some time; I'm thinking the fork brace might have been adjusted poorly and causing some stiction.
jim
(https://i.ibb.co/4VnPKFr/IMG-8188.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4VnPKFr)
If you still have the original Bosch charging system, then you'll need to add a resistor to the charge warning light circuit or it won't charge. I bought mine from Greg Bender.
(https://i.ibb.co/KF7wNdg/Bootstrap-resistor.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KF7wNdg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Q6VkJ07/bootstrap-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q6VkJ07)
I extended the one for my V50 to reach from the diode board to the fuseblock.
(https://i.ibb.co/dbg1h0R/V50-bootstrap-harness-001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dbg1h0R)
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If you still have the original Bosch charging system, then you'll need to add a resistor to the charge warning light circuit or it won't charge.
Thanks Charlie. I should have specified that I left the original one in there because of this. It was also the only light that still worked!
Funny thing is the LED lights are polarity sensitive and my hit rate for installing them the correct way the first time was worse than inserting a USB stick :-)
I was also able to get this P45t base headlight bulb from Ruiandsion at Amazon when a few months ago I was unable to find anything.:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084HCGZP7?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
It's a direct fit but i haven't tested the beam pattern at night yet.
jim
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Has anyone here done a V50 rebuild? I don't see many mentions either here or out on the net in general.
Hi Jim
https://motoguzziv50.wordpress.com
It's not everyone's cuppa but it was my first stab at buggering about with motorcycles! It might help.