Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mwether on May 15, 2024, 06:33:34 AM
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Hi, all.
I'm on the verge of buying a bike I've never seen, let alone sat on. And I don't mean the specific example I'm looking at, but rather that I've never seen ANY older California. (This could be filed under "dumb idea," perhaps...?)
Regardless, I'm wondering how big and bulky they are. Somewhere someone said, "bigger than a Sportster, smaller than an FLH." Is that pretty accurate? What other common bike might you compare it to, in terms of size and heft?
Thanks for any insight you can share. :thumb:
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The touring HDs tip the scales at over 900 lbs, so the Cali at about 600 lbs feels like a lightweight coming off an Ultra Classic.
My Harley riding friends thought my EVT was a "sport bike".
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What bikes have you ridden,that would help answer the comparison question.If you are short ,the floorboards will make it hard ,find one with pegs.Weight is not a big problem if you are in average health and fitness.
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Regardless, I'm wondering how big and bulky they are. Somewhere someone said, "bigger than a Sportster, smaller than an FLH." Is that pretty accurate? What other common bike might you compare it to, in terms of size and heft?
Actually the late-model Tonti Calis were VERY similar to the rubbermount Sportsters in terms of weight and performance, with perhaps a tad more length/wheelbase.
This is both from having owned them side-by-side (00 Jackal and 04 883, 07 XL1200) and from a spreadsheet I keep on the matter:
Jackal - wet weight 572#, length 92.7", wheelbase 61.4", seat height 30.3
Black Eagle - wet weight 589#, length 93.7", wheelbase 61.4", seat height 30.5
Cal-Vin - wet weight 616#, length 93.7", wheelbase 61.4", seat height 30.7
07+ XL1200 - wet weight ~585#, length 90.1", wheelbase 60", seat height 28.1
Though I should say that's based on my 07, there are variances in weight and seat height, and occasionally length due to fender differences. But they aren't huge variances.
The Harley Dyna and Softail series bikes tended to be just a HAIR bigger than a Cali (length/wheelbase), while the Sportsters were just a HAIR smaller (length/wheelbase).
The Sportys tended to be about the same weight, while the Dyna/Softails are definitely a bit heavier, though you might not notice due to seat height differences. The Sportys tended to be taller so you might feel similar weight to the lower Dyna/Softails. Of course, there are also lowered models of most Harleys so there's that variance too.
I always considered my Jackal to be a "baby Road King" in terms of function - bags, windshield, long distance capable/comfortable, but in reality it was closer in size to a Sporty or Dyna.
I'll make it even more complicated. An FLH USED to be the size of a Dyna/Softail (~700#) -- but today they are even bigger (~800+#) and I'm not just talking weight, but that's just an example.
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What bikes have you ridden,that would help answer the comparison question.If you are short ,the floorboards will make it hard ,find one with pegs.Weight is not a big problem if you are in average health and fitness.
How short is short? :grin: I'm 5'9"-5'10"...in riding boots.
Biggest, tallest bike I've had was an '05 Multi 1000S DS.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/For-Sale/Multi/i-QsSwfs5/0/WPDdhCBH4bHb5sDmHRPtBfJ5dCkf68JJBPMtqx9P/X2/DSC_3328-X2.jpg)
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If you can ride that you can ride the EV.
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If you can ride that you can ride the EV.
Probably, though he should keep in mind EV is much wider which takes away some leg length.
I'm 5'10" (without my boots) and a 32" inseam and easily flat-footed my Jackal - and my wife COULD ride it (5'4" not sure of inseam) BUT she was tippy-toe and didn't like the mass. I think she only rode it once. In contrast she owned a couple of Sportsters. But OP is taller than her even without boots...
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Probably, though he should keep in mind EV is much wider which takes away some leg length.
I'm 5'10" (without my boots) and a 32" inseam and easily flat-footed my Jackal - and my wife COULD ride it (5'4" not sure of inseam) BUT she was tippy-toe and didn't like the mass. I think she only rode it once. In contrast she owned a couple of Sportsters. But OP is taller than her even without boots...
I'm 5'8" barefoot with a 30" inseam. FWIW, I'm pretty sure the Multi was also sub 500#.
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I'm 5'8" barefoot with a 30" inseam. FWIW, I'm pretty sure the Multi was also sub 500#.
:thumb:
You're probably fine on an EV but it can be a personal thing.
Biggest, tallest bike I've had was an '05 Multi 1000S DS (which was still sub 500#).
Weight is a funny thing because where it carried can REALLY make a difference in how it feels.
My first Road King was 700# but felt as light or lighter than my Breva 1100 or BMW R1100 which were more like 600# or less but taller.
Cali's and a lot of Harleys carry their weight low so they hide it well.
Some Sportys are taller and might be 100# less than say a Dyna/Softail but feel similar in weight because of height differences.
I guess I'm saying don't get too caught up in numbers before throwing a leg over (even though I obsess over specs myself).
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...I guess I'm saying don't get too caught up in numbers before throwing a leg over (even though I obsess over specs myself).
Completely agree, just with the absence of EVs in the wild, specs and numbers are all I have! :grin:
Aside from WG expertise, of course! :thumb:
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I'm 5'8" barefoot with a 30" inseam. FWIW, I'm pretty sure the Multi was also sub 500#.
Dry weight on the DS1000 Multistrada was about 414 lbs, so about 100 lbs lighter than the Cal EV.
Those were cool bikes. I got to spend some time on one. Totally different feel from a Guzzi California.
Curious. What are you riding now, or most recently? What draws you to the Guzzi Californias?
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Dry weight on the DS1000 Multistrada was about 414 lbs, so about 100 lbs lighter than the Cal EV.
Those were cool bikes. I got to spend some time on one. Totally different feel from a Guzzi California.
Curious. What are you riding now, or most recently? What draws you to the Guzzi Californias?
Loved the Multi, didn't love the service interval. Probably never would have sold though, if it weren't for a nasty tax surprise. :shocked:
That bike convinced me I love Italian twins, which—along with the rarity and community—is the appeal of Guzzis.
What attracts me to Californias specifically is the price point and availability of parts and expertise. V7s are also very interesting but considerably more expensive.
Currently riding another Piaggio product, which is an absolute hoot for commuting and wandering 35-45mph roads...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Ride/2021-Piaggio-Liberty-S-150/i-WhJV8Q6/0/H5G39z8KQ2zs5Pd97pTWQK9T65BhhgfK24SHNWqw/X3/PXL_20240325_201751246-X2.jpg)
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...Cali's ... carry their weight low so they hide it well.
I've heard folks say this, and others say they are top-heavy. I suppose it's all relative to personal experience...
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Loved the Multi, didn't love the service interval. Probably never would have sold though, if it weren't for a nasty tax surprise. :shocked:
That bike convinced me I love Italian twins, which—along with the rarity and community—is the appeal of Guzzis.
What attracts me to Californias specifically is the price point and availability of parts and expertise. V7s are also very interesting but considerably more expensive.
The price point is good, that's for sure. I bought my '04 Cal EVT in 2022 for $3500. 17,000 miles and in pretty good/clean condition.
I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with the Californias and the V7s. I've owned two of each in the list of 8 Guzzis I've owned over the years.
Community and friendships keep me on Guzzis. And to be honest, price is why I'm riding the '04 Cal EVT. They're a lot of bike for the price, and easy to buy at the (low) prices they sell for. Still, they are a mixed bag. You may love it. You may hate it. You may end up like me, both loving and hating it!
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What attracts me to Californias specifically is the price point and availability of parts and expertise. V7s are also very interesting but considerably more expensive.
I bought my V7s running away from the PIA maintenance/service on my Cali Jackal while searching for a riding position more upright/traditional thank my Breva 1100.
With the amount of reconditioning you may have to do with the EV you could buy a late-model, low mileage V7 that needs nothing. Just saying.
I've heard folks say this, and others say they are top-heavy. I suppose it's all relative to personal experience...
Anyone who says that hasn't ridden a taller bike. So yes, personal experience.
My Breva 1100, R1100RS, Buel St3, etc were all taller and more "top heavy" than my Cali.
Some of my Sportys and one Road King were all shorter and less "top heavy" than my Cali.
Then again the taller Sportys were about the same and the 800# monster Road King with the 32" Police seat was top heavy for a King.
Yeah, it varies.
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...They're a lot of bike for the price... Still, they are a mixed bag. You may love it. You may hate it. You may end up like me, both loving and hating it!
I may be able to get the bike I'm looking for under $2K which is VERY attractive in the immediate, but not if it turns into a can of worms. Can you say more about your love/hate, specifically the hate? :grin:
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I bought my V7s running away from the PIA maintenance/service on my Cali Jackal while searching for a riding position more upright/traditional...
With the amount of reconditioning you may have to do with the EV you could buy a late-model, low mileage V7 that needs nothing. Just saying.
Kev, can you say more about the PIA aspects of your Cali experience?
I think I'd still be ahead, if I can get the EV for $2000 or less, but it all depends on what it needs...
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...If you are short ,the floorboards will make it hard ,find one with pegs....
Been thinking about Jackals/Stones for this reason.
The Calis with pegs also dodge the weird "heel perch" for the brake pedal.
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Kev, can you say more about the PIA aspects of your Cali experience?
I think I'd still be ahead, if I can get the EV for $2000 or less, but it all depends on what it needs...
Some here think I "got a bad one" - but I don't think all of my experience was atypical.
For starters you may already realize going in that maintenance is a little bit more work than it should be with things like air filter under the flaccid whale penis tank, oil filter inside the engine sump which must be dropped for changes, and in my case tubed spoke wheels (that rusted badly and quickly, though you might get sealed wheels on that EV). That alone was enough to make my thoughts and eyes wander to different Guzzi pastures.
But then there were the failures - pretty much everything electrical failed while I owned it, from starter to regulator/rectifier, to the ignition switch (while riding on the Blue Ridge Parkway hundreds of miles from home) etc. The rear tail light housing was notoriously weak so the turn signals broke it and the bulb socket would separate and cause an open circuit or wiring/contacts would get too hot from the increased resistance when it was loose. The shocks failed within months of purchase, and even the HB accessory rack failed (cracked and gave way when I hit a pothole on a trip).
Despite all this I found the bike intoxicating while riding it, kept it for about 35-40k miles and a good number of years. Oh the bodywork rusted through so I wound up replacing both fenders and repainting the tank chasing a different aesthetic. It ranks among one of my favorite bikes of all time because of how it felt, but it's probably my worse Love it/HATE it relationship because of how much of a pain it was.
In contrast I remain smitten with my V7 Stone a decade later. But I'll freely admit the Jackal was a better highway/long distance bike.
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Can you say more about your love/hate, specifically the hate? :grin:
Love: solid, reliable, good motorcycles
Hate: - Wind Management. The stock windscreen has buffeting and noise that I've not yet resolved.
- Tall, Wide Spaced Transmission Gearing. These could really benefit from 7/33 gearing. You'll rarely use 5th
gear, and won't have to shift much.
- the floorboards are great for highway riding, but the shifter and brake lever are a little inconvenient when
the roads are tight and twisty, and you need to shift/brake a lot.
- The seat: I use an Air Hawk to help with mine. The one you're looking at appears to have a Ned's
custom seat, so may not be an issue for you.
Most of my Guzzi miles have been on two motorcycles: A 1996 Sport 1100 and a 2004 V11 LeMans Nero Corsa. Windscreens, seats, handlebars, pegs remained stock on these two motorcycles for a combined nearly 80,000 miles. So, I tend to be more oriented toward Sport-Touring riding. Both of those, and the 1991 LeMans 1000 were almost perfect as delivered. I have a feeling the new V100 Mandelllo S is exactly what would work perfectly for me, but to be honest, the $18,000 price is more than I want to spend, so I paid $3500 cash for the 2004 Cal EVT and use it for light touring with some of my long-time Guzzi friends who also ride these vintage Guzzi Californias.
An interesting thing about these Guzzi Californias is if you go to a Guzzi rally, campout, or gathering, the Tonti Californias from Cal III to Cal Vintage (but mainly the EVs) will usually be the largest representative type in attendance. Even though they've been gone from the marque's lineup for well over a decade.
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For starters you may already realize going in that maintenance is a little bit more work than it should be with things like air filter under the flaccid whale penis tank, oil filter inside the engine sump which must be dropped for changes, and in my case tubed spoke wheels (that rusted badly and quickly, though you might get sealed wheels on that EV). That alone was enough to make my thoughts and eyes wander to different Guzzi pastures.
Luckily, air filters rarely need changing, but yeah, the tank removal is a PIA for such a basic maintenance item.
I've always done oil changes at 5000 miles, but yeah the internal oil filter is a bit of a pain. My current bike has a Harper's Outsider, so no worries right now.
The 2003-up EV has chrome plated aluminum tubeless wheels, so no worries there.
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...the flaccid whale penis tank...
Can't unsee this. :grin:
Seriously, thanks for the post; the FWP was NOT my only takeaway!
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While it may appear that "the stars are aligning" for the EV purchase, I'd point out (mostly to myself) that there's also a great deal of alignment—in this thread and others—that says skip all the old bike nonsense and buy a V7.
In a smaller bike's favor, I've been around motorcycles long enough to know that bigger isn't always better (in fact, it might usually be worse?) and having a bike built largely for covering vast distances means having a bike that's in its sweet spot for about 25% of annual use, IMO.
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In a smaller bike's favor, I've been around motorcycles long enough to know that bigger isn't always better (in fact, it might usually be worse?) and having a bike built largely for covering vast distances means having a bike that's in its sweet spot for about 25% of annual use, IMO.
It would be unfair of me not to recognize the counter of this argument. Honestly the Cali is a wonderfully handling bike that is JUST as at home on small local roads as it is on the highway. I can't honestly say my V7 is really even better there, not by any real margin.
Sorry - I'm not trying to make it more complicated.
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At the price you're talking for this machine, you can't lose.
If you get it and own it awhile, then realize it's not you, selling it won't be a problem.
At $2,000 taking this risk isn't taking much of a risk.
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The California is really a jack of all trades bike, go anywhere, do anything. I refer to mine as the "big bike" but it is amazingly nimble when you're on it. It looks bigger in the garage than it feels under you.
I never even meant to buy mine and still have it. I can't even say I've bonded with it but I don't want to let it go. I think you're dangerously close to paralysis by over-analysis. Get it. If you don't like it you'll still come out ahead if you just detail it and list it.
-AJ
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My EVT Touring is a nice bike. I really like it when I'm not in the city running errands. Rides the freeways great!
Why not in the city, the fork stops are too narrow compared to my Loops and R75/5, even my Street Bob can turn at low speeds inside my EVT. I keep forgetting that I can not turn as tight on it compared to my other bikes. Also, the new V7's to me also have to narrow of fork stops, but they are more manageable.
Weight. YES IT DOES carry it's weight high. The engine is about 2 or 3 inches higher up than my Loops. The R75/5 I don't notice the weight, but it's probably higher at the crankshaft?
Fork stops. I once dropped it in a parking lot. I was trying to turn a walking speed tighter than it would. Basically I just fell over. I probably could have powered it up, but if I tried I would likely been into the side of a van.
Now the weight. The bike was laying perfectly on the front crash bar and the bag with the wheels off the ground. I tried my usual methods to pick it up and could only rock it back to the wheels while on the bag and bar. Finally a guy came over and helped me. He said that was a damn heavy bike. There were health reasons that may have contributed to me not getting the bike back up that day, maybe that was also part of it.
EDIT: Also when I dropped it, I keep forgetting this, but I had the bags parked for a weekend getaway. Not heavily loaded (I've had more in them), but that probably made it a bit more top heavy and harder to get it back up.
EDIT: Also, the large HB side bags can hold a cold 30 pack in each one for short trips. I would worry about the weight messing up the bags on a long trip.
Every time I ride for errands, I want to sell it. Then I get on the freeway and remember why I like it so much.
At the price, it's worth trying. The Hydro engine is great as long as it's sorted.
Tom
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...I never even meant to buy mine and still have it. I can't even say I've bonded with it but I don't want to let it go. ...
Awesome. This is like a Guzzi koan!
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...I really like it when I'm not in the city running errands. ...
Every time I ride for errands, I want to sell it.
Very glad I have the Piaggio Liberty 150. That thing is an errand runner without peer!
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My 2004 EVT was one of my all time favorites.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nVQmXJYZ/880.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XX4qPtzD)
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My 2004 EVT was one of my all time favorites.
That blue version is stunning, Dave.
Did you sell to finance another bike? (Just wondering why it didn't earn a permanent spot in the garage?)
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It would be unfair of me not to recognize the counter of this argument. Honestly the Cali is a wonderfully handling bike that is JUST as at home on small local roads as it is on the highway. I can't honestly say my V7 is really even better there, not by any real margin.
Sorry - I'm not trying to make it more complicated.
My cali stone is used almost 90% on small curvy 45-55mph back roads and its a dream! Rides WAY lighter, and more nimble than any bike its size should.. The rest of the time its on highway, and there it never feels like a small bike. It will do 75-80 all day long. I wasn't looking for a cali style bike, but found the prices so good, and the fact that they can be changed to match different looks, and styles made me change. Then I found my low mile Stone, and I was sold. Mine has the chrome tank, and hides some of its FWP look thoguh. :)
(https://i.ibb.co/mSRdyVD/IMG-7072-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSRdyVD)
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From 99 to 2007 I had a 98 EV in the garage. In 80000+ miles it needed a TPS and a regulator. I replaced it with a 2001 EV just because it was prettier and only had 10200 miles when I bought it. I sold it last spring with right at 100000 miles on it. It had a TPS and a starter replaced. That's as reliable as a bike gets! I owned over 20 different bikes at the same time, but it was and still is my favorite. I'm only 5' 8" with 28" inseam, and it was great for me. I changed the handle bars and it was my mini Electa Glide classic. At 76 it just got to be too much to push around the garage. I miss it dearly! And, if you don't go get that one I will!
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...And, if you don't go get that one I will!
You should! Jim is a good guy!
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/mcy/d/harris-good-bike-needs-better-owner/7745960336.html
The EV remains VERY intriguing. I may wind up buying one, but not before I take it for an extended spin. Buying not just sight unseen but model unseen was a bridge too far. I wish I were better at risky behavior! :grin:
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The EV remains VERY intriguing. I may wind up buying one, but not before I take it for an extended spin. Buying not just sight unseen but model unseen was a bridge too far. I wish I were better at risky behavior! :grin:
LOL. That's how I've gotten all 3 of my bikes.
-AJ
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LOL. That's how I've gotten all 3 of my bikes.
-AJ
Isn't that the truth! Taking leaps of faith are a regular thing, if you want to own and ride rare and unusual Italian motorcycles.
I've driven to Chicago, Indianapolis, and Lima Ohio for bikes I'd only seen in pictures and read about online. California Bassa, LeMans V, Ducati E900 Elefant. I went to Texas for a Guzzi Quota and for a V7 Special. 400 to 800 miles for each.
It's just part of the deal.
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LOL. That's how I've gotten all 3 of my bikes.
Isn't that the truth! Taking leaps of faith are a regular thing, if you want to own and ride rare and unusual Italian motorcycles.
I'm going to start showing up at any remotely local Guzzi events...on a scooter! :grin: :thumb:
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Yeah, I didnt realize this was afly and ride thing, not worth going all the way there for something that will come up for sale closer to you
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That blue version is stunning, Dave.
Did you sell to finance another bike? (Just wondering why it didn't earn a permanent spot in the garage?)
no room in his house,all the bikes he lists are in his house.
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I just bought an 05 EV Touring and I’m in the process of sorting it out. Add a wind deflector to the windscreen to reduce the noise. They are cheap and effective at reducing wind noise. The wind noise was much improved when I added one.
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I just bought an 05 EV Touring and I’m in the process of sorting it out. Add a wind deflector to the windscreen to reduce the noise. They are cheap and effective at reducing wind noise. The wind noise was much improved when I added one.
2004 would've been the last year of the EV in The USA. What is the 10th digit in your VIN? If it's a "4", then you have a 2004 California EV.