Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: faffi on August 08, 2024, 03:40:01 PM
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Got to test drive my friend's brand new Yamaha on Tuesday, a Tracer 900 GT+. I think it's hard to make a more boring bike, but at the same time it's immensely competent. At least on the things I could try at a moderate pace.
Engine
No vibrations in the handlebars worth mentioning, but the clutch lever vibrated at a very high frequency, but hardly any amplitude. Just a mild buzz. Enough that I didn't want to sit with my fingers on the lever. But then you don't need it very often, since it has a quick-shifter that works up and down. It worked very well.
The power delivery is utterly bland. Very similar to my former Kawasaki Z1300 DFI and my brother's Triumph 955 Sprint. Both where fast, but felt gutless. I believe the Sprint would pull away from the Tracer under acceleration in sixth gear, based on how the Triumph left my son and his Yamaha MT-07 behind under the same kind of roll-on comparison, and how unexpectedly little the Tracer pulled away from my Roamer. Whether I drove in STREET or SPORT mode, the response from the engine was practically the same. Of course, there is more than enough power with 120 horses, and it didn't take long to reach 90 mph plus in third gear, but at the same time I didn't get the feeling that I was accelerating - everything was smooth and seamless, not a hint of kick from the engine to stir excitement.
A very good thing was how incredibly easy it was to keep a steady speed on the Tracer. In addition, it had adaptive cruise control that kept the speed relatively stable within +/- 2 kph (1.3 mph). It require much more attention to keep a steady pace on an undulating road on the Roamer.
Suspension
I rode almost the entire trip in SPORT mode, and I'd say the suspension was near perfect for comfortable cruising. The suspension is semi-active and adjusts according to the engine setting. But by golly does it work! I deliberately chose to ride into a couple of sharp, deep dips in the road, big enough to clatter teeth if I hit them on my Roamer. On the Tracer, I could feel just a hint of the dip from the front end, and absolutely nothing from the rear end. Absurdly good. Provided you are not one who demand feedback from the tire/road interface, because there is zero of that. For me it was, so to speak, perfect. According to the owner, it is even more comfortable in STREET mode, without me noticing any difference during the short time I rode it in street mode.
Seating position
Leg position is on the verge of making my hips cramp. Not because there was too little space or sharp angles in the hips or knees, but there was something about the relatively sporty leg placement and completely upright torso that didn't quite suit me. The saddle could have had an inch or two more space to move backwards, and also leaned too much forward. And that after my friend had raised the seat 8 mm (1/3 in) at the front, which he said had made a world of difference. If Yamaha had moved the foot pegs a little down and a little forward - maybe 2 inches each - and the seat was a little flatter, longer and wider, I would have been sitting perfectly.
The handlebars were ideal for me - just high enough, wide enough and tall enough with great shape (almost straight when viewed from above). The non-original windscreen produced some turbulence and noise, but not terribly bothersome. I sat completely relaxed - I think this is the only bike I've ridden where my hands just lay loose and free on the handlebars, no matter the pace and road. The biggest drawback was that the bike is HIGH. I had to stand on one footrest to get on, and should have done so on the way off, but we had parked on loose ground. As a result, I had to jump off backwards while I used my hands and arms to support my leg above the saddle so as not to get the seat dirty or scratch anything. Yes, my hips lack mobility.
Brakes
Didn't test them specifically, but I guess it's a compliment in itself that I didn't notice them.
Riding characteristics
Again not properly tested, as I was just riding normally, not wanting to risk anything with a bike that's both new and not mine, as well as unfamiliar. Very easy to steer into corners, and neutral through the turns, but required a bit of power to straighten up when coming to the exit.
Conclusion
Would I buy a bike like this? No. Too boring, too tall, too perfect, total lack of character and a look I don't particularly like. And if it was mine, I would definitely ride very fast at times. Much too fast. But while I would not care to own the bike, I would very much like to have the suspension!
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The local multi brand dealer had new '22's last month for $10,998, what's to not like about them? Oh, chain drive, no soul, excellent warranty, excellent reliability, no leaks, seeps or weeps to name a few. Yeah, it all has me wondering why I'm considering a new v85tt or v100....maybe I drank too much Koolade. :laugh:
(https://i.ibb.co/ZgLRSmw/Tracer-9gt.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZgLRSmw)
Comes with a centerstand too.
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Looks like a keeper to me. Character? meh. It's where you go to me. And getting back home.
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And it's ugly.
-AJ
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Does Yamaha have any designers on staff anymore? That thing is a blivet.
kk
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Looks like a keeper to me. Character? meh. It's where you go to me. And getting back home.
Sacrilege!
:grin:
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The V85 is the only adv. bike that looks good to me, for me, the Stelvio runs a close 2nd place on looks. I would have been on a GS years ago if I could have stood the looks.
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BLAND............. Unless you are going at 'go to jail or morgue speeds' It's a story I know al too well.
I had an 05 FJR from 2007-2015 (80K miles). Before that an FZ1 (wrecked at <1K miles), ZG1000 (100K miles) going back to 1986. Prior to that I was on the mighty XS1100 and a short stint on a VMAX. The FZ1 had some character, but as I wrecked on it's maiden voyage at less than 1K miles, I may have more nostalgia than is warranted. The ZG 1000 Concours had tons of character and competency, and the KING of Sport Tourers, the FJR had so much power and was so competent, it took several years for me to get bored. I rode its wheels off the first 4 years, loved the intoxicating sound of the IL4, the power, the capability, but to my shame, I had no desire to ride it the last two years, maybe putting on 1K miles those last years.
In 2015, I got back from Afghanistan, spring came and I had ZERO desire to ride. Thinking I had outgrown riding, I decided to sell the monstrosity that took so much room in my garage and was a plastic accident waiting to happen. I decided to sell, but didn't want to give up riding completely. I just had no desire to ride the FJR. In order to enjoy, I had to ride it at my and the bikes limit, and the bikes limits were WAY beyond mine. So I decided to find a naked standard, maybe something sportingish.
I took 3 months to ride every naked standard I could find, and was just NOT interested other than a Speed Triple, and a brief but wallet raping glance at a 9RT. I set my budget, and started searching Craigslist, and saw an AD for something called a "Griso" looked good, right price............. Hmmmmm It's at a Moto Guzzi dealer, only 45 minutes from me. (The FAMED Moto International in Seattle, run by the great Dave Richardson). As an enthusiast, I had LONG known of Moto Guzzi, but other than a weird old dude on a ratted out ancient bike with bags and stickers and strapped on camping gear, I had never seen one in the wild nevermind ridden one.
So I rode the FJR to MI title in my pocket, and went to my first Guzzi Dealer. Met Dave and Crew, given carte blanche, every question, threw a leg over 4-5 bikes, got the 'Guzzi edjumication' I finally went out to the Griso in the Used section. Dave said "GO as long as you want" It only took 3 blocks and I was hooked.............
I rode 2K miles that month, and by July added a Norge and haven't looked back. There are TONS of options, but when you find one that lights you up, you go for it............
Now in defense of Yamaha, as many are bored of hearing, my XS1100 has been with me since 1986, and I put over 120K miles on the beast. It is part of me. The Griso was the first bike to have the same effect. The XS11 has been in storage since 2013, and will soon be resurrected. I can't wait to ride it B2B with the Griso.
OK back on topic, modern bikes of TOO MANY manufacturers are near perfect, but soul less. The Tracer 900 is one of those..........
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Just for you, Bulldog9
https://www.oldbikemag.com.au/pitmans-yamaha-xs1100-superbike-chain-drive-transformer/
Another story: Kenny Roberts took a brand new XS1100 around die Nordschleife back in 1978, wearing a helmet and street clothes only, and carrying a motorcycle journalist as a passenger. I am not sure if the journalist ever recovered from the experience. I have the article written by him in one of my old magazines somewhere.
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You know I have a Mini van if I just want a drive and forget ride... I dont ride a lot. When I do I want that little bit of work to get down the road. I want that little bit if crudeness. Same as with the joy of a old car. Im sure it would be different if I was putting 10's of thousands of miles on it a year.. But thats not what I ride for any more.
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If power,handling,smoothness,and affordability were the only issues,nobody would ride anything but Asian bikes like this .
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Just for you, Bulldog9
https://www.oldbikemag.com.au/pitmans-yamaha-xs1100-superbike-chain-drive-transformer/
Another story: Kenny Roberts took a brand new XS1100 around die Nordschleife back in 1978, wearing a helmet and street clothes only, and carrying a motorcycle journalist as a passenger. I am not sure if the journalist ever recovered from the experience. I have the article written by him in one of my old magazines somewhere.
IIRC, the XS11 was one of the first 11 second quarter mile bikes, or one of a few. I have an article (print) that said the XS1100 was King Kong in a Tux, or something like that. The chassis lift/flex was ridiculous, and the bike easily overpowered the front fork. I had a custom fork brace made, and we welded in some frame bracing to help, but when hitting it hard in the twisties the chassis would flex, and when you transititioned from left to right in tight turns and hard on/off throttle, the bike would often POP up as the chassis unflexed. I rode that beast to all 4 corners of the US, did 5-6 IBA runs (fuel stops every 100 miles........... BAHAHAA). It had all manner of junk bolted to it, from the full Yamaha Windjammer and hard bags, to a Rifle fairing. I brought it back to stock when I took it off the road for primary riding in 1996 when I bought the Concours.
Few will believe this, but the motorcycle had ZERO mechanical failures, and I NEVER had to open the CARBS over all those years. Electrical issues were a thing, I had to replace several ignition switches, replaced fuse box, and a few other wiring failures, but the bike was just bullet proof. I did 2 valve shim adjustments at 20 & 40K miles, and that was it other than
Here she is as it was when I put in storage. Is all original with the exception of the Paint (from 1990) and Exhaust. SO much character........ As much as I still love and respect the Yamaha Brand, 99% of their stuff is just soul-less, at least by my standard. I really can't wait to get it and the 750 triple up and running again.
(https://i.ibb.co/VYq24DF/2012-05-06-17-47-22-362.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VYq24DF)
(https://i.ibb.co/mCw0Str/2012-05-11-18-06-43-200.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mCw0Str)
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900 triple is a neat engine with good grunt and top end. They have several levels of tune from the Tracer to MT09. They handle well and are quite sporty. A real sweet spot given the trend for middleweight motorcycles.
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Bulldog: Do you have a tuning fork tatoo?
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IIRC, the XS11 was one of the first 11 second quarter mile bikes, or one of a few. I have an article (print) that said the XS1100 was King Kong in a Tux, or something like that. The chassis lift/flex was ridiculous, and the bike easily overpowered the front fork. I had a custom fork brace made, and we welded in some frame bracing to help, but when hitting it hard in the twisties the chassis would flex, and when you transititioned from left to right in tight turns and hard on/off throttle, the bike would often POP up as the chassis unflexed. I rode that beast to all 4 corners of the US, did 5-6 IBA runs (fuel stops every 100 miles........... BAHAHAA). It had all manner of junk bolted to it, from the full Yamaha Windjammer and hard bags, to a Rifle fairing. I brought it back to stock when I took it off the road for primary riding in 1996 when I bought the Concours.
Few will believe this, but the motorcycle had ZERO mechanical failures, and I NEVER had to open the CARBS over all those years. Electrical issues were a thing, I had to replace several ignition switches, replaced fuse box, and a few other wiring failures, but the bike was just bullet proof. I did 2 valve shim adjustments at 20 & 40K miles, and that was it other than
Here she is as it was when I put in storage. Is all original with the exception of the Paint (from 1990) and Exhaust. SO much character........ As much as I still love and respect the Yamaha Brand, 99% of their stuff is just soul-less, at least by my standard. I really can't wait to get it and the 750 triple up and running again.
(https://i.ibb.co/VYq24DF/2012-05-06-17-47-22-362.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VYq24DF)
(https://i.ibb.co/mCw0Str/2012-05-11-18-06-43-200.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mCw0Str)
2nd gear was problematic, an issue that continued in the FJ1100 and 1200, but if you did the shifts properly you should have no issues. Just as your bike proved. I remember MOTORRAD magazine wrote: Das Motorrad shchaltet wie ein Soldat spricht; laut und deutlich. (The bike change gears the way a soldier talks; loud and clear).
The handling, while not great, was better than that of the first edition of the CBX. But the jacking from the shaft required a riding style like the Beemers of the time; finish braking when upright and steady the chassis - and gain cornering clearance - by going into the corner with a little bit of throttle. Not to my liking. The Yamaha had good cornering clearance, significantly more than the Suzuki GS1000, but less than the CBX. The XS1100 had more low- and midrange grunt than any other bike in 1978. The KZ1300 that came out the following year had even more, but was also much heavier.
I have always had a soft spot for the XS1100, and it is one of the few bikes that looks best in black with gold pin-striping. The Euro version look better than the US edition to me, what with its bigger 24 liter fuel tank. Same with the XS750 and 850, plus GS1100 from 1980/81; these too had 24 liter tanks here in Europe that gave the bikes a more masculine look. However, it's been many moons since I got tired of listening to an inline four when cruising at a steady pace, and I have no longer an appetite for heavy bikes.
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Bulldog: Do you have a tuning fork tatoo?
Not that you'll ever see pal........... :cool: :cool: :boozing:
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2nd gear was problematic, an issue that continued in the FJ1100 and 1200, but if you did the shifts properly you should have no issues. Just as your bike proved. I remember MOTORRAD magazine wrote: Das Motorrad shchaltet wie ein Soldat spricht; laut und deutlich. (The bike change gears the way a soldier talks; loud and clear).
The handling, while not great, was better than that of the first edition of the CBX. But the jacking from the shaft required a riding style like the Beemers of the time; finish braking when upright and steady the chassis - and gain cornering clearance - by going into the corner with a little bit of throttle. Not to my liking. The Yamaha had good cornering clearance, significantly more than the Suzuki GS1000, but less than the CBX. The XS1100 had more low- and midrange grunt than any other bike in 1978. The KZ1300 that came out the following year had even more, but was also much heavier.
I have always had a soft spot for the XS1100, and it is one of the few bikes that looks best in black with gold pin-striping. The Euro version look better than the US edition to me, what with its bigger 24 liter fuel tank. Same with the XS750 and 850, plus GS1100 from 1980/81; these too had 24 liter tanks here in Europe that gave the bikes a more masculine look. However, it's been many moons since I got tired of listening to an inline four when cruising at a steady pace, and I have no longer an appetite for heavy bikes.
Yeah, many had to replace second, or premptively opened the case and did a reverse angle grind on the 2nd gear dogs. I never had much problem, but had to be careful with 1-2 shifts.
At one point, I had 3 XS11's, and one had the standard tank. The bike was originally black, and the "Midnight Special" with all black and gold was very popular, but didn't catch my fancy.
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Euro version of the standard XS1100
(https://www.motorrad-fuchs.com/relaunch/_upload/_productpic/1334/0/0000_1.jpg)
The XS1100S, which I do not think you got in USA? S stood for Sport.
(https://www.vehibase.com/yamaha-xs-1100-s.jpg)
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Euro version of the standard XS1100
The XS1100S, which I do not think you got in USA? S stood for Sport.
We had the Standard, that had the Larger tank and Square Headlight, and the Special with Teardrop Tank and Round. The Midnight special was an all Black and Gold.
(https://i.ibb.co/kH5h161/YAMAHA-XS-1100-SF-Midnight-Special-2460-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kH5h161)
Here is an XS11 PIC from a group ride in the early 90's. Hard to believe that 3 of those guys are now dead.
(https://i.ibb.co/0QPQtyK/xseast20.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0QPQtyK)
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Tuning fork tatty....
(https://i.ibb.co/tzn2Svt/Tuning-fork.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tzn2Svt)
For the true Bulova Accutron aficionado
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We had the Standard, that had the Larger tank and Square Headlight, and the Special with Teardrop Tank and Round. The Midnight special was an all Black and Gold.
(https://i.ibb.co/kH5h161/YAMAHA-XS-1100-SF-Midnight-Special-2460-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kH5h161)
Here is an XS11 PIC from a group ride in the early 90's. Hard to believe that 3 of those guys are now dead.
(https://i.ibb.co/0QPQtyK/xseast20.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0QPQtyK)
I guess my memory is off, that it was only the 750 and 850, plus the GS750 and 1100, that had a smeller tank. The Sport was a mix of the standard and the midnight spesial, basically, and not very sporty to ride.
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I guess my memory is off, that it was only the 750 and 850, plus the GS750 and 1100, that had a smeller tank. The Sport was a mix of the standard and the midnight spesial, basically, and not very sporty to ride.
My XS 1100 and 750 have the Teardrop 'Special' tank that was barely 4 gallons. The 'Standard' had the larger squared off tank that was around 6 gallons if I remember correctly.
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In the mid 90s had a 650 Seca for a while which started as a Euro bike with a similar tank, shaft drive and a massive 8 inch deer hunter headlight. Around 1980 or 81, an article at the time raved about the bike and "begged" Yamaha to bring it to the US. At the time, all we were getting in the smaller 4 cylinder bikes was the small tank, stepped seat variety of Seca in the US.
Yamaha did bring the bike over in 82 and 83, but the price? Shesh, something like $3,200 which was around the same price as the other guys 750s and Suzuki's 850. I was making about $250 a week then so it was unobtainable and it didn't sell well because we weren't really ready for a mainstream Euro type of bike and it was just too much money in spite of how good it was.
Flash forward and I found one for $500 that needed some work. Carb rebuild, new seat cover, new tires, battery and repair of fork seals and off to the races. A wonderful well mannered bike as good as the scribe had said it was. It served me until I could afford to get into Beemer world.
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I bought a new 750 Seca back in 1983. Really pronounced torque reactions from the shaft drive and stiff suspension (unlike the 650 Seca, which was soft), yet still lacking cornering clearance. I used to drag both stands, pegs and exhaust regularly. The 650 was worse, due to the soft suspension having the bike sit lower.
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The 650 was much better looking than the 750, though.
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The 650 was much better looking than the 750, though.
I had a 76 650 (British Twin copy) was a sweet looking bike, but never took to it.
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:wink: see r
In the mid 90s had a 650 Seca for a while which started as a Euro bike with a similar tank, shaft drive and a massive 8 inch deer hunter headlight. Around 1980 or 81, an article at the time raved about the bike and "begged" Yamaha to bring it to the US. At the time, all we were getting in the smaller 4 cylinder bikes was the small tank, stepped seat variety of Seca in the US. Yamaha did bring the bike over in 82 and 83, but the price? Shesh, something like $3,200 which was around the same price as the other guys 750s and Suzuki's 850. I was making about $250 a week then so it was unobtainable and it didn't sell well because we weren't really ready for a mainstream Euro type of bike and it was just too much money in spite of how good it was.
Later on, circa 1986-ish, a lot of those US-spec 650 Secas were unsold, available new for next to nothing. The late John Hermann (author of Motorcycle Journeys in the Alps etc) had rarely ridden anything but a BMW but wasn’t thrilled with the then-new K100 (he crashed his promptly and didn’t buy another), so to bide his time he picked up a 650 Seca from his local Yamaha dealer for $1400 out the door. That held him over until the R100GS came out in ‘88. I had one too, bought used a bit later, and enjoyed it well enough. The forks were soft, the brakes weren’t the best in the world and you had to rev it, but you couldn’t beat the value at that point.
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Too boring, too tall, too perfect, total lack of character and a look I don't particularly like. And if it was mine, I would definitely ride very fast at times. Much too fast. But while I would not care to own the bike, I would very much like to have the suspension!
Bought a 23 XSR900 last year. pretty much the same bike with different suspension, geometry and you pretty spot on with your findings. to each of their own the motor is always demanding you ride fast, I hit over 180 km/h+ on highway a few time not even realizing it . one thing the Yamaha definitely do better than the Guzzi (comparing to my 1st gen V7 racer) is the clutch pull. the Yamaha clutch is so light which make the Guzzi like a workout pulling the clutch every time.
(https://i.ibb.co/YkpjSQZ/PXL-20230329-235953166-MP.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YkpjSQZ)
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The Yamaha will do everything measurable better than any Guzzi. But it's been many moons since Guzzis were considered state of the art. Yet they have something many want: Character.
BTW, speaking of XSR - have you seen the new XSR900GP? Look at those rims. Are they not familiar?
(https://i0.wp.com/cdnbkr.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2024_yamaha_xsr900gp_2.jpg?fit=600%2C338&ssl=1)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0IPV8WDDwB6t8QvmQbb9ya6-Uu2fHwqql9g&s)
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I have 78 XS11 standard full faring, bags and trunk, which was the original tug for my Vetter Teraplane now on my 03 EV. The fully loaded 1100 would pull the side car also fully loaded down the road at 100 mph when ever I asked it to without protest, it’s a brute. I also still have my first bike, a 79 XS 750 ( Black gold metal flake paint), and an 82 XJ 650. Unfortunately our 3Yamahas have not seen any road time since we got into our Guzzi’s. Now that I’m semi retired my plan is to go through them, get them running right and try to find good homes for them. Right now in my area (central Mn ) there is very little interest or market for them.
I always enjoy reading and hearing stories from other Yamaha owners in this group.
Amazing how besides the absolute reliability of these UJMC from that era, they also incorporated automatic turn signal canceling, standard center stands, and rear view mirrors that you could actually see behind you, which in case you haven’t noticed, some bike manufacturers still don’t seem to understand a need for.
Would I trade in or sell any of our Guzzi’s for a newer Japanese bike, no way. As one of my friends pointed out back in the day, the Europeans built their bikes from the road up, emphasizing handling, while the Japanese in the 70’s built their bikes from the top down to look like the European bikes the US riders were modifying. Big difference.
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I was stunned to learn that the new 9 GT+, crammed with electronic gizmos, lack self cancelling indicators which came standard on my 1976 XS500.
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I was stunned to learn that the new 9 GT+, crammed with electronic gizmos, lack self cancelling indicators which came standard on my 1976 XS500.
Agreed, if that is true.
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We tested it, I put on the indicators on my Roamer and my mate on his GT+, and mine eventually stopped (they are programmed to be on longer than I have been used to on other bikes) but the indicators on the Yamaha continued until he got sick of watching it going after a couple of minutes. Forums confirm the same. The MT-07 also lack self cancelling indicators.
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The Yamaha will do everything measurable better than any Guzzi. But it's been many moons since Guzzis were considered state of the art. Yet they have something many want: Character.
BTW, speaking of XSR - have you seen the new XSR900GP? Look at those rims. Are they not familiar?
(https://i0.wp.com/cdnbkr.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2024_yamaha_xsr900gp_2.jpg?fit=600%2C338&ssl=1)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0IPV8WDDwB6t8QvmQbb9ya6-Uu2fHwqql9g&s)
I'd rate the V100 at least on par with Tracer plus having shaft drive.
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I'd rate the V100 at least on par with Tracer plus having shaft drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfEgeGBnc_Q
NOTE: The GT+ have as sophisticated suspension as the V100 S, a big TFT screen and radar that also comes with adaptive cruise control and automatic braking if the rider falls asleep. So I reckon it will beat the Guzzi. However, I would choose even the base version of the V100 over the Tracer, regardless of edition, because it is a bland motorcycle. Very, very competent. But not exciting and without soul. At least to me.