Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: inditx on August 28, 2024, 08:19:04 AM
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Ok, so inflation and costs are skyrocketing to be sure but why the slow down or sudden stop in motorcycle sales, especially used?
Honestly, I have never had this much trouble nor has it taken so long to sell my bikes.
Even trades are apparently out of fashion.
What say the collective here?
inditx
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what brands are you selling ?
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The latest have been Guzzi’s but it started earlier with Honda and a Beemer.
My buddy had a hard time as of late selling a pristine Beemer btw.
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The local Honda dealer has no problem selling Groms, Monkeys & CT125's. The larger displacement stuff moves slower. I sold my '82 CB125s two months ago, it took 2 days on craigslist. My '03 v11 Lemans took two months to sell, it went to a new caretaker last Saturday. I suppose its a buyers market maybe??!! Depending on how bad you want to get rid of something, you have to price accordingly...imo. If you want it gone now, drop your price and be ok with losing money...sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. On the otherhand, stick to your price because of all that you have invested in it makes it a great value when the right person comes along. Imho, what is great about a nearly new bike purchase is there is still warranty, no major problems exist, some optional goodies, no freight cost, no eating 1st owner depreciation to name a few. Good luck, have patience afterall we are rapidly approaching the end of riding season, idk.
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Most people in the US have very little discretionary income, the average is only a couple of hundred dollars a month. Combine that with historically high interest rates to borrow money.
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It's always supply and demand perception. The pandemic era shortages dictated a rise in prices. But many sellers are STILL asking silly prices for their used machines, some thinking that their bikes are worth 90% of the new price. The big picture is that a massive number of boomers are aging out of biking while young people have less disposable income (Seen the cost of renting lately?) and seem to be far less interested in bikes. It's a risky sport that has gotten far riskier with the advent of automobile distraction boxes, both built in and hand held. To make a long story short, demand is evaporating.
And right now in the rust belt, the season is near end. Enter any bike shop - it's empty of customers at this time. They ain't at home scanning the classifieds.
I've seen the same fake shortage meme in the used guitar market, but that market has already started to correct- I've picked up bargains from sellers who've had their items for sale for a couple of months, cut their prices a time or two and then accepted an even lower offer. These aren't desperate people - they've learned what the market is. Not everyone does.
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reduced demand for large displacement motorcycles
the traditional buyers are aging out
inflation eating into discretionary spending
higher interest rates making the cost of loans more expensive
It's not just motorcycles. Inflation and interest rates are causing cars to sit on dealer lots for weeks/months and houses to remain on the market for months rather than days or weeks.
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Aging out for sure but younger folks don’t seem to have the same interest these days. Most would rather spend their hard earned bucks on big pickup trucks with loads of accessories.
Pete
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MC's have always been hard to move, cept HD's during the 1990's... My BMW 2005 k1200LT with one year warrantyy remaining only had one bite and purchaser from across state and sold it. Guzzi is another small niche market. took OVER a year of ads to FINALLY sell my Victory Cross Country tour to a cash buyer for a decent sum. My bike was pristine. Only takes one, if you can wait it out. High miles also scare alot of buyers away. I think we have fewer interested riders these days also..
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There was a buying craze in 2020, 21 and maybe 2022. Everyone that wants a motorcycle has one now - AND they all paid top dollar at that time.
Fast forward to 2024, and the higher cost of living blah blah blah.
People are still buying motorcycles. I bought four this year. But, we are looking for real bargains.
A good time to list is in early November, when it's cold. People are bored and looking at motorcycles for sale. My best sales months are December, January, and February.
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Indeed. I briefly tried to sell a 2017 Low Rider S. A model made only two years, and "supposedly" desirable riding on the coattails of "Sons of Anarchy." Even though my price was at the lower end of similar bikes on Cycle Trader, I did not get one legitimate offer...just the usual scams that show up instantly as soon as the listing is posted. I just let the listing expire. I hate to think my wife is going to be stuck dealing with a half dozen or so motorcycles she knows nothing about after I'm gone. But it's starting to look like I'm just going to dump them in her lap. Not very fair, I guess. I often think about calling one of the low-ball brokers like Rumble-on and having them send a flat-bed trailer. Sell the whole lot for pennies on the dollar and be done with it in one fell swoop...like an amputation! I suspect that's what she will have to do. Like General Aviation before it, Motorcycling is a sport in rapid decline.
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Generally speaking, I would say it's about there being an over-abundant supply and low demand. There are plenty of bikes on the market right now, both new and used, but no where near enough buyers. Lack of interest by the younger generations, current economy, cost of ownership (DMV, insurance, transportation), etc. are all contributing to the low demand. Like someone has said, if you want to sell a used bike in today's market, better price it low, and hope it sells.
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This was a discussion on another site and it all boils down to the price the seller is willing to accept. I have bought and sold over 20 bikes since the pandemic hit and its no easier or harder to sell now verses during the height of the pandemic. Bikes priced right sell and sell rather quickly. The really odd thing is during the height of the pandemic when bikes were selling way over market value I was getting some of the best deals I ever had gotten. Its how I ended up buying so many bike. I'd get a good deal on a bike then a day, week or month another better dealer would present itself.
Heck just last week I sold my DRZ400. It took about week to sell and I got my asking price, buyer never even asked if I'd reduce the price. If you know anything about DRZ400's there are 1000's of them f/s and endless choices. Why did mine sell quickly while other's have been remained unsold on internet sites for months or a year......price.
A couple of months ago I sold my 2008 R1200GS, same thing. Sold in a week at full asking price.
I will say Guzzi's even in good times are hard to sell. Everybody loves them but very few will actually own them. Having owner my share of them and no bitter taste to own another you'd all but have to give it to me.
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Interesting...I sold a Norge and a Himalayan and both buyers answered the ad the same day and didn't try to negotiate...just lucky, I guess
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I think another large factor is where one lives. When I lived in the Atlanta area, I had no trouble selling any of my used bikes. Now that I live in a rural, decidedly lower income area, selling is next to impossible. Every sale I've had over the last 10+ years has been to an out-of-state buyer! Where I live now, the population of riders is miniscule. If it doesn't say Harley or Honda, they've never heard of it, let alone have any interest or means to purchase it.
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I have priced them right and dropped the price too.
I don’t need to sell them rather I want to and like to trade them even better.
Like I said over the years I’ve bought and sold too many bikes to count.
I believe in taking care of them and farkling them to my taste and then selling at a reasonable price.
I should add that even add ons or accessories aren’t selling for me. Guess I'll chalk the latter up to freight costs.
inditx
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I've been thinking about selling my 2016 Eldorado for a new V85. The trade in offers are too low for me to consider a deal.
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I have a 2023 V85 and a 2016 Eldorado listed here for sale.
Good luck on yours if you list it.
inditx
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Freight costs. Yes this has killed small parts sales. I have played with old Mercury outboards for years and have a lot of parts. I used to sell a lot on eBay but don't even bother to try any more. Shipping is so high nobody buys anything no matter how much they want it. Only unobtainium sells. Another enthusiast will take most of my stuff that I no longer want but I will deliver it at the next boat race which we will both attend. The rest goes in the trash and to a local scrap dealer. A shame as there are guys out there that could use it. Private parties can't ship at reasonable costs, businesses get a large break.
kk
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I've been thinking about selling my 2016 Eldorado for a new V85. The trade in offers are too low for me to consider a deal.
You might look into trading your Eldorado on a new V85 at Kissell in PA. Early Spring this year they gave me above book price for my 2015 California Custom on a new Stelvio. I thought Josh may have given me too much but the next day it was on his website for $2,000 more and the following day it was marked "deposit taken". They must have a good market for nice 1400's.
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You might look into trading your Eldorado on a new V85 at Kissell in PA. Early Spring this year they gave me above book price for my 2015 California Custom on a new Stelvio. I thought Josh may have given me too much but the next day it was on his website for $2,000 more and the following day it was marked "deposit taken". They must have a good market for nice 1400's.
But they sold the bike for we’ll never know. So who know if they maintained the $2,000 overage or accepted well under that?
Earlier I trades a 2020 GSA in on a 2024 GSA low. I got $800 less for my 2020 than I paid a year earlier and I also kept the panniers top case and GPS to use on the new bike. + I put about 14,000 miles on the 2020. The dealer I went with soon relisted my 2020 GSA at $1500 over what they allowed me for it on trade then as the weeks passed its price dropped to at least $300 below what they allowed me.
FWIW I also solicited Kissel's while looking at 2024 GSA low's and their OTD price was closing in on $3,000 more than the dealership I ended up buying from. Kissel's is an excellent dealership but they do not always have the the best deal. FWIW arts deux the dealership I ended up buying from doesn't always have the best deal either. That why it pays to shop around and not just blindly accept that because they one had a good deal they will always have a good deal.
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Most people in the US have very little discretionary income, the average is only a couple of hundred dollars a month. Combine that with historically high interest rates to borrow money.
Where did you get the above info on discretionary income? And to be clear, interest rates have gone up over the last couple years to about average for the last 50 years, they are no where near historically high rates.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS
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I suspect many potential buyers are waiting for prices (of all goods and services) and interest rates to come down. Job market isn't as strong either at least in the tech industry.
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But they sold the bike for we’ll never know. So who know if they maintained the $2,000 overage or accepted well under that?
Being that it was sold the day after it was listed for sale I think they would have gotten close to asking price, plus fees on top of that so likely more.
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Being that it was sold the day after it was listed for sale I think they would have gotten close to asking price, plus fees on top of that so likely more.
But we'll never know. That the problem with bike valuation we always know the asking price but rarely know the selling price. It is quite possible they got close to their asking price or are knowledgeable enough in used Guzzi sales that the 1st person that came in with a reasonable offer they took. Just so happens the offer walked in the next day. Either way we'll never know unless the buyer decides to kiss and tell.
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So far this year, have sold 6 and bought 5. Its a sickness, but worse habit I guess.
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I notice more young people on cycles with motors, it's just that they're not motorcycles. Too bad insurance and registration are not required on ebikes to put them on a level playing field with motorcycles.
Although...what's with all the elementary school kids on $3,000+ bicycles. I'm pretty sure they didn't earn all that money on their newspaper route.
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I was wondering when someone was going to notice…
Check Craigslist, any make or model you can think of, from a Whizzer to a CBX, is available
Definitely an oversupply rebound from the ‘that which shall not be named’ period
Everyone seems to have bought their dreambike to restore repair rebuild ride etc
And now it’s a case of
‘bought it to restore repair rebuild ride etc and don’t have the time’
From one who obsessively scans the classifieds
There has been a distinct line drawn in the sand about titles. Since the Vermont loophole disappeared everyone, and the price, reflects whether the title is available
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I was wondering when someone was going to notice…
Check Craigslist, any make or model you can think of, from a Whizzer to a CBX, is available
Definitely an oversupply rebound from the ‘that which shall not be named’ period
Everyone seems to have bought their dreambike to restore repair rebuild ride etc
And now it’s a case of
‘bought it to restore repair rebuild ride etc and don’t have the time’
From one who obsessively scans the classifieds
There has been a distinct line drawn in the sand about titles. Since the Vermont loophole disappeared everyone, and the price, reflects whether the title is available
And also note pricing on FBMP/CL and the other haunts. We see a lot of them that are priced at peak pandemic pricing and have been f/s for weeks, months or a year.
Late winter of 2024 I made an offer on a Camhead GS that had been f/s on FBMP for something like 40+ weeks. The seller declined and said he knew the value of his bike and it would sell in a few weeks when the weather broke. Months later it was still f/s at the same price.
IDK if the Vermont titling loophole had/has a lot to do with it as most people did not know about it or thought it was a scam and wouldn't use it.
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As Jay Leno once said, regarding motorcycle prices, "You didn't pay too much, you just sold too soon!" :wink:
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As Jay Leno once said, regarding motorcycle prices, "You didn't pay too much, you just sold too soon!" :wink:
Another misconception is age equals value. Just because something is old does not mean its valuable.
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Where did you get the above info on discretionary income? And to be clear, interest rates have gone up over the last couple years to about average for the last 50 years, they are no where near historically high rates.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS
Yeah it was fun trying to finance stuff in the early 80s.
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Sometimes you just have to look at the ownership of a motorcycle the same way as taking a vacation. Money is spent and memories are made. The difference between what it cost to buy and what you sold it for is money spent to have experiences and make memories.
I'm up to seven bikes because I don't want to let any of them go.
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Yeah it was fun trying to finance stuff in the early 80s.
I'm in the camp of you have to finance a toy to be able to afford it, you cannot afford it.
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I'm in the camp of you have to finance a toy to be able to afford it, you cannot afford it.
A nice sentiment but by THAT logic I wouldn't have bought a new motorcycle until my late 40's instead of early 20's.
Sure one can get carried away with financing life, but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.
I'm glad I don't finance em NOW, but it took a long time to get to that point.
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A nice sentiment but by THAT logic I wouldn't have bought a new motorcycle until my late 40's instead of early 20's.
Sure one can get carried away with financing life, but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.
I'm glad I don't finance em NOW, but it took a long time to get to that point.
On the overwhelming chance I do live to see tomorrow I don't want to be burden with unnecessary debt and paying interest on negative equity.
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On the overwhelming chance I do live to see tomorrow I don't want to be burden with unnecessary debt and paying interest on negative equity.
bla bla bla
Again, I fully understand the sentiment.
But what is "necessary" and what is "not necessary"? Is it black and white?
Is a mortgage good debt or bad debt?
How about a student loan good debt or bad debt?
How about vehicle loan - because many people NEED a vehicle to get to work in the first place.
I can hear the whingy nasally voice now "but you don't NEED a new _______________ you can buy a cheaper, smaller, used, __________"
Sure, how about the guy (like me) who NEEDED a reliable vehicle to get back and forth to work and chose a motorcycle over a car?
How about the fact that those bikes were Harleys in the 90s... so every payment actually built equity.
When I was done with them sure they'd cost me interest and maybe a grand or two, but I got a lot of dependable usage out of them during that time.
Yeah yeah, you said a toy, but all I'm pointing out here is that there is a ton of gray area.
I think most people who aren't independently wealthy will have to use financing at some point in their lives. The hope is they do so as responsibly as possible.
Though I'll add that I'm damn glad we don't use it for much these days.
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Since when is a motorcycle a "toy"? Mine is a tool used for transportation. Some people have no choice but to finance transportation. I don't finance my motorcycles anymore but there was a day when I did. If you play with your motorcycles then I guess maybe they are a toy??
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The only two bikes I ever financed were two H-D's in the 80's. Made money on one and broke even on the other.
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The younger folks would rather have the latest cellphone than a smelly motorbike that requires maintenance.
Roy
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Freight costs. Yes this has killed small parts sales. I have played with old Mercury outboards for years and have a lot of parts. I used to sell a lot on eBay but don't even bother to try any more. Shipping is so high nobody buys anything no matter how much they want it. Only unobtainium sells. Another enthusiast will take most of my stuff that I no longer want but I will deliver it at the next boat race which we will both attend. The rest goes in the trash and to a local scrap dealer. A shame as there are guys out there that could use it. Private parties can't ship at reasonable costs, businesses get a large break.
kk
Outstanding observation, 500% correct.
TdF
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I'm in the camp of you have to finance a toy to be able to afford it, you cannot afford it.
My Tiger 660 is 2.9%. I'd lose money by moving the money from where it is to pay off the bike.
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Boy this thread took a turn.
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”
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Since when is a motorcycle a "toy"? Mine is a tool used for transportation. Some people have no choice but to finance transportation. I don't finance my motorcycles anymore but there was a day when I did. If you play with your motorcycles then I guess maybe they are a toy??
At least in the good ole US of A motorcycle's are a choice not a necessity. Motorcycles typically cost more per mile top operate than automobiles so it actually a poor choice for transportation. But that's your choice.
My Tiger 660 is 2.9%. I'd lose money by moving the money from where it is to pay off the bike.
So what you are saying is you could have purchased the bike w/o taking a loan?
There is a big difference in having to verses choosing to take out a loan.
I'll stick by my original statement if you have to finance a toy to be able to afford it, you cannot afford it.
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I’ve come to the conclusion that most aspects of this problem can be circumvented, if you just buy the bike you want and don’t sell it the first time the bug hits.
Although…
Just yesterday I saw my first V100 in the wild and spoke to the owner at length. He was on a major journey down the East coast of Australia and was mid way across the Nullarbor en route to Perth. I hung around to see/hear him depart and apart from the “crash” when he engaged first gear….(and most of the subsequent ones as he headed off), I thought how old my Norge is getting.
I had better NOT ride a Stelvio…!
If I saw a gloss red one with wire wheels and outboard spokes…? I think I’d give in… :kiss: :rolleyes:
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Huzo,
Apart from the current market conditions, you and a few others have helped me realize that it’s best to withdraw it from sale at this time.
Perhaps I’ll fall in love again with her during this season. A few more farkles can’t hurt ay
inditx
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I'm did my part to help bike sales yesterday when I found a lightly used Trail.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hGNHfDwC/temp-Imagebm-Eu-Ye.avif) (https://postimg.cc/t1trcj9P)
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There are no more debtor's prisons so I will chose the bike I want and pay for it how I can.
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:rolleyes:
I'm did my part to help bike sales yesterday when I found a lightly used Trail.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hGNHfDwC/temp-Imagebm-Eu-Ye.avif) (https://postimg.cc/t1trcj9P)
You’ll never be able to go anywhere on something like THAT…! :rolleyes:
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You’ll never be able to go anywhere on something like THAT…! :rolleyes:
LOL if I do it'll take a while!
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I’m not so sure.
15,000 km took 6 weeks…
(https://i.ibb.co/bFg6jGZ/IMG-2505.png) (https://ibb.co/bFg6jGZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/mFyDpTp/IMG-2460.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mFyDpTp)
(https://i.ibb.co/G71g5zt/IMG-2526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G71g5zt)
(https://i.ibb.co/xCCFbg1/IMG-2540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xCCFbg1)
(https://i.ibb.co/pyvZRhx/IMG-2547.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pyvZRhx)
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I’m not so sure.
15,000 km took 6 weeks…
(https://i.ibb.co/bFg6jGZ/IMG-2505.png) (https://ibb.co/bFg6jGZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/mFyDpTp/IMG-2460.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mFyDpTp)
(https://i.ibb.co/G71g5zt/IMG-2526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G71g5zt)
(https://i.ibb.co/xCCFbg1/IMG-2540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xCCFbg1)
(https://i.ibb.co/pyvZRhx/IMG-2547.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pyvZRhx)
Kilometers sure make the ride seem more impressive.
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Nevertheless 225 miles a day every day for 6 weeks is a lot on a loaded down 125.
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Nevertheless 225 miles a day every day for 6 weeks is a lot on a loaded down 125.
Yes and it’s a 110.
You can read the thread, it’s called Cape to Cape..(probably go right ‘round).
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Three of the motorcycles I've bought used in the past two years were ones that I had never found for sale while they were actively for sale before. I'd only found listings and auctions for them from years ago. People cleared out some oddities and they were on my wishlist. I subscribe to BaT and from the prices there, it seems that many vintage prices peaked in 2022-2023. Some dealerships are slowly backing down on their massive Additional Dealer Markup now that supply has been catching up and folks are able to find more of the models they want available on the floor at multiple dealerships in the same area.
You'll have a lot of fun with that Honda Trail 125. I rode mine 4k miles coast to coast across the USA, 15 days riding 1 day off, last year after a few shorter tours with the bike. Very reliable and capable of just about anything other than speed. You'll likely want to replace the stock seat for any saddle time longer than 10 minutes.
(https://i.ibb.co/pJrhxCP/ct125-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ChsPzxt)
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Three of the motorcycles I've bought used in the past two years were ones that I had never found for sale while they were actively for sale before.....
....You'll have a lot of fun with that Honda Trail 125. I rode mine 4k miles coast to coast across the USA weeks last year after a few shorter tours with the bike. Very reliable and capable of just about anything other than speed. You'll likely want to replace the stock seat for any saddle time longer than 10 minutes.
Yeah I'd looked at these little bikes over the last couple years but by the time I added "destination" and doc fee they were $4,400. This 2022 they had on the floor with 250 miles looked like new (the PO traded it for a scooter). They accepted my offer of $3,000 (plus 6% tax) so it came home with me.
I've enjoyed it so far just riding around locally. The engine is smooth and it shifts nice but it could use an extra gear in the form of a lower first on trails IMO.
LOL and a few more HP. But I have an XT250 for when I want that.
WOW coast to coast on a Trail is amazing! I've read of some people doing longer trips on Mini Motos, I don't believe I could do that.
Thanks for the seat suggestion, what seat did you switch to?
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Three of the motorcycles I've bought used in the past two years were ones that I had never found for sale while they were actively for sale before. I'd only found listings and auctions for them from years ago. People cleared out some oddities and they were on my wishlist. I subscribe to BaT and from the prices there, it seems that many vintage prices peaked in 2022-2023. Some dealerships are slowly backing down on their massive Additional Dealer Markup now that supply has been catching up and folks are able to find more of the models they want available on the floor at multiple dealerships in the same area.
You'll have a lot of fun with that Honda Trail 125. I rode mine 4k miles coast to coast across the USA weeks last year after a few shorter tours with the bike. Very reliable and capable of just about anything other than speed. You'll likely want to replace the stock seat for any saddle time longer than 10 minutes.
(https://i.ibb.co/pJrhxCP/ct125-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ChsPzxt)
Did you do the TAT or take some other route?
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Yeah I'd looked at these little bikes over the last couple years but by the time I added "destination" and doc fee they were $4,400. This 2022 they had on the floor with 250 miles looked like new (the PO traded it for a scooter). They accepted my offer of $3,000 (plus 6% tax) so it came home with me.
I've enjoyed it so far just riding around locally. The engine is smooth and it shifts nice but it could use an extra gear in the form of a lower first on trails IMO.
LOL and a few more HP. But I have an XT250 for when I want that.
WOW coast to coast on a Trail is amazing! I've read of some people doing longer trips on Mini Motos, I don't believe I could do that.
Thanks for the seat suggestion, what seat did you switch to?
I thought I wanted one, but I still think my Van Van 200 does more for me. A friend traded bikes straight up for one and only kept it a couple months. It couldn't hang with the rest of the small bore riders, even those on a Grom in the hills of middle Tennessee. I was thinking of one as a second bike when I go camping. Something to run around the campground and light exploring, but my Van Van 200 already fills that niche.
They definitely don't appear to be keepers because there are several used ones out there even though supply was sparse when they first came out.
Around here if you can't maintain 50 mph you are a hazard on the roads.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geb_QFxp_hs
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Sounds like you got a really good price on it.
A cheap (~$10-15) and simple mod you can do for gearing is to replace the front sprocket with a 13T, specifically a "JTF273.13". Can keep the same 108 link #428 chain on it with that swap. The stock IRC GP-5 tires are not good at all in loose terrain, and if you run oversize (tall) knobbies then that gearing change can almost perfectly offset the added tire circumference in terms of ABS and speedometer/odometer accuracy which read rear wheel speed from the countershaft. For some steep riding in Colorado I've considered dropping a tooth from the front sprocket after having ridden a friend's CT125 with it, but still I've gotten the bike to go where I need it to with stock gearing and it's happier keeping the revs down when rolling on pavement at wide open throttle. If I were doing nothing but trail riding, I would regear it. In New Zealand there is a farm kit offered for the bike which among other things consists of a 13T front and 51T rear sprocket for truly agricultural gearing.
This is the seat I have on mine: https://www.ebay.com/itm/114497541750
For being some knock-off item that obviously put the Honda logo on their product without licensing, it's been very comfortable and top notch quality. The seat pan looks OEM though I think it may be derived from an older Honda Dream model. I bought a Corbin saddle for the bike and ended up reselling it because the fit and finish were poor quality, even if it may have been just as comfortable. If you are on the taller side or find your tail bone hitting against the grab handle on the rear carrier, you may want to consider the MotolordD casual seat. The primary market for these bikes has been Japan and Thailand, so many of the accessories you'll find for them come from those countries. Webike Japan and Beezdeals are among the reputable sites you can buy those accessories from internationally.
Did you do the TAT or take some other route?
I rode 99% pavement. Mix of back roads and some sketchy highway riding where it was difficult to avoid.
(https://i.ibb.co/CMZc3nn/route.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CMZc3nn)
The TAT would be a fun challenge on this little bike, but the Smokey Mountain 500 has been tempting me more for a future trip. It's been a great bike for trail riding and camping in the Colorado Rockies. 2021 and 2022 I rode it all year with a snow chain on the rear tire when things got icy.
(https://i.ibb.co/9tWGHjT/snow.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9tWGHjT)
I've certainly noticed all the used ones that go for sale with low miles. I think a lot of people bought them with mismatched expectations. Nostalgia buyers who bought the bike but then didn't actually find themselves getting back into riding, it was a toy for them and just ended up sitting around. People who bought it expecting it to be a proper dual sport rather than a trail-modified Honda Wave/Super Cub. And people who just need more speed to be comfortable in traffic, which is very understandable though they could have done some research and found this to be the slowest 125cc Honda mini moto before buying it. It's a bike that excels at nothing. There are more specialized motorcycles at around the same price point that are more capable in different ways, even the Honda XR150L would beat the Trail 125 at nearly everything other than approachability, large cargo rack, and style. I enjoy taking the slower and more scenic route, and don't think I can ride anywhere on the little bike without smiling.
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Another misconception is age equals value. Just because something is old does not mean its valuable.
In case you've forgotten, Jay Leno is a comedian. "It's a joke, son!" :rolleyes: The pun being if you wait long enough, almost anything will be worth more than it was at some point. Granted, with most Moto Guzzi's you might have to wait several lifetimes.
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In case you've forgotten, Jay Leno is a comedian. "It's a joke, son!" :rolleyes: The pun being if you wait long enough, almost anything will be worth more than it was at some point. Granted, with most Moto Guzzi's you might have to wait several lifetimes.
I absolutely understand it's a joke, but look around, son! No shortage of people asking the moon and stars for their classic and/or antique ULM just because its old. A few years back my neighbor was telling me all about his 400cc Honda that has been sitting in the back of his garage for decades and telling me these things bring big money. I think he was upset that I did not start drooling or offer to remortgage my house for the opportunity to become the owner of his bike.
The rocks in my back yard are millions of years old and just as worthless today as they were when they were created 25 million years ago.
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I have a 2018 Husky 701 listed for sale and after 3 weeks not even one inquiry. I believe it is a bike with some demand in Idaho with all the dirt roads and ADV groups we have here. But it would not be the first time I was wrong. It really comes down to supply and demand. Good supply with low demand. :(
I also believe that many peoples discretionary income for toys has dried up. https://mises.org/power-market/misery-index-recession-levels
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i just sent a couple days visiting my daughter at her aprt in West Town neighborhood of Chicago, in and around OldTown and other desirable neighborhoods. At least around those areas, if your want to be int the cool zone, you were riding a retro Triumph (mostly) and to a lesser extent Royal Enfield. Lot's of guys, dressed like it was 1968 traveling around in groups of 4 or 5. Didn't see much of anything else, but for the random rat bike, lots of scoters. But, at least in Chicago, the guys with money for the good stuff, are buying Triumph retro's and similar. I suspect there are is representation of v7s, as it just fits. Certainly a different market than where I live, where most guys with the money to buy a new bike are going Asian.
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Most people in the US have very little discretionary income, the average is only a couple of hundred dollars a month. Combine that with historically high interest rates to borrow money.
"Historically high interest rates" just means you're either VERY young, or have a short memory.
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Or it means the past 15 or so years, which have largely dictated which motorcycles have been made and sold in that time which factored into the current market.
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If people want to ride, and borrowing money costs more, you'd think affordable used bikes would be selling like hotcakes.
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I enjoy taking the slower and more scenic route, and don't think I can ride anywhere on the little bike without smiling.
That is how I feel about the Van Van 200. I might not ride the most miles on it, but I definitely spend a lot of hours on it.
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Just ride and don’t worry about it. Nobody governed by common sense would ever buy a motorcycle just ask your mother.
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"Historically high interest rates" just means you're either VERY young, or have a short memory.
Yep. I remember telling people back in the early 80's I'd just gotten a 7% 30 year fixed on my first home. They all freaked out at how LOW my rate was! (It was a buydown for first time buyers.)
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Yep. I remember telling people back in the early 80's I'd just gotten a 7% 30 year fixed on my first home. They all freaked out at how LOW my rate was! (It was a buydown for first time buyers.)
1978 my mom was all happy and celebrating because she had locked in a 10% fixed on a home purchase.
Oh, and remember "assumable loans"?
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I've sold two bikes in the last week - one planned and one "surprise".
I advertised the '90 Cal III FF I rode out to the Oregon coast and back this Summer, very little interest for about a week. Then, a gentleman who had been following the build thread on my business Facebook page decided to buy it. Full asking price, no dickering. Came the whole way from Arkansas to get it.
Last Thursday I sold the Suzuki DR200SE that I've had less than a year and have only had on the road for a month. A guy traveling the US in his van wanted a bike to haul on a rear carrier and the DR was just perfect for him. Sold it for more than market value.
Only one more to go ('77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada) and I already have a buyer lined up. :azn:
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A lot of bikes seem to have sold for silly money in the past few years at auction,
but the market appears to be correcting itself. Broughs, Vincents, CBXs, Crockers,
and stuff like that will always hold their value, but a lot of lesser brands/models
will not. We're seeing that adjustment to reality now. Even some Harleys are
becoming fairly reasonable.
-Stretch
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I too ended up selling another bike a couple weeks ago. I listed it late afternoon, went to my moms for supper and when I got home I had a buyer and two others lined up. I got full asking price (never even an mention would I take less) + a bottle of Tito's and an extra $20 so I could buy a case of beer. In all fairness I did list at XYZ price + a bottle of Tito's and a case of beer.
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I've sold two bikes in the last week - one planned and one "surprise".
I advertised the '90 Cal III FF I rode out to the Oregon coast and back this Summer, very little interest for about a week. Then, a gentleman who had been following the build thread on my business Facebook page decided to buy it. Full asking price, no dickering. Came the whole way from Arkansas to get it.
Last Thursday I sold the Suzuki DR200SE that I've had less than a year and have only had on the road for a month. A guy traveling the US in his van wanted a bike to haul on a rear carrier and the DR was just perfect for him. Sold it for more than market value.
Only one more to go ('77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada) and I already have a buyer lined up. :azn:
Quit showing off :bow:
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It’s an “out there notion”, but if you want to avoid the pitfalls of buying and selling….?
Just get the bike you want, ride it (a lot), clean it (a bit), service it (regularly), and don’t just try to dump it when you’re sick of it and the next great thing comes along…
Next thing you know, you have 220,000 km on it and an encyclopaedia of memories that you cannot buy…
Simples…!
My bike is “worth” 25% of what I paid for it and it’s “value” 300% more.
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It’s an “out there notion”, but if you want to avoid the pitfalls of buying and selling….?
Just get the bike you want, ride it (a lot), clean it (a bit), service it (regularly), and don’t just try to dump it when you’re sick of it and the next great thing comes along…
Next thing you know, you have 220,000 km on it and an encyclopaedia of memories that you cannot buy…
Simples…!
My bike is “worth” 25% of what I paid for it and it’s “value” 300% more.
While I’ve always bought the bikes I wanted I often did not buy them to keep for long term use/ownership. I’ve bought bike to do certain rides and once the ride was over I sold the bike. I’ve bought other bike with no intention of riding, I just wanted components off them like high end aftermarket suspensions, seats, windscreens and panniers to use on my other bikes then sold off the bike in closer to stock trim. I’ve bought bikes on a whim and I’ve bought them after careful study. What I don’t do is lie to myself anymore and say this is my forever bike. Turns out everything is for sale. Last bike I bought I put zero miles on it, owned it for 6 days and decided it wasn’t what I wanted.
I’ll never be the guy to put 100k or probably even 50k on a single bike as I’ll get tired of it long before I reach that mileage. I bought a new 2024 a few months ago and really thought about getting the 4 year additional warranty then realized if I have this bike for 3 years or 36,000 miles provided by the factory warranty it’ll be a miracle.
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Well, just to show you it could always be worse, here's someone that followed Huzo's advice: Over on the BMW K1600 site (another site I follow, even though I no longer own a K1600) one gentleman wanted to trade his very high milage 2012 K1600 GTL (high as in 174,000 :shocked:) Trading it in on a brand new K1600GT, the dealer gave him $500 for his bike. Ouch! As I said, the body panels are worth more than that!
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Well, just to show you it could always be worse, here's someone that followed Huzo's advice: Over on the BMW K1600 site (another site I follow, even though I no longer own a K1600) one gentleman wanted to trade his very high milage 2012 K1600 GTL (high as in 174,000 :shocked:) Trading it in on a brand new K1600GT, the dealer gave him $500 for his bike. Ouch! As I said, the body panels are worth more than that!
That is $500 more than I’d give someone for a bike with 174,000 miles on it.
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I just looked at a well cared for European sport touring bike. It was fully serviced by it long time, 70 year old owner. Garaged, maintained, obviously never dropped and in extremely good nick. If I didn’t know that it was 21 years old, I would have guessed it wa a 2 year old machine. MSRP, was $13000. He advertised it for $2100 OBO, and only got a few calls, but no sale in September. It’s a relatively rare, full liter sport tourer, that nobody has room for.
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I just looked at a well cared for European sport touring bike. It was fully serviced by it long time, 70 year old owner. Garaged, maintained, obviously never dropped and in extremely good nick. If I didn’t know that it was 21 years old, I would have guessed it wa a 2 year old machine. MSRP, was $13000. He advertised it for $2100 OBO, and only got a few calls, but no sale in September. It’s a relatively rare, full liter sport tourer, that nobody has room for.
What and where is this "European sport touring bike"? :wink:
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I have been guilty of buying a bike just for that “rush” of initial ownership.
I watched an Al Pacino movie once called “Two For the Money…”, as a gamblaholic he explained that the real excitement when playing dice was not when you won, that was an expectation you held when you stepped up to the table.
It was as the dice was tumbling that you felt that rush.
Same here.
The smell of the dealership, the expectation of leaving with a new relationship/bike and the power of the purchase can be intoxicating. We are (mostly) males, we are wired as such.
I bought my MV Agusta F4 in just such a state….( but I did keep,it for 2 years and 20,000 km).
That hit of satisfaction of “hunting and taking home” can become addictive..(a metaphor if ever there was..).
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What and where is this "European sport touring bike"? :wink:
I’ll wager it’s a Ducati 1000 DS or an ST 2/3 or 4
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I’ll wager it’s a Ducati 1000 DS or an ST 2/3 or 4
Yeah. ST4, I'd imagine. And no one wants to pay the maintenance bill.
Fantastic bikes. The ST series is the definition of "sport touring".
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Wrong choices fellas. It’s a Triumph Trophy 1200. Complete with bags. It did sell, or at least the ad is down.
(https://i.ibb.co/4mGXt4j/IMG-2721.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4mGXt4j)
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Wrong choices fellas. It’s a Triumph Trophy 1200. Complete with bags. It did sell, or at least the ad is down.
(https://i.ibb.co/4mGXt4j/IMG-2721.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4mGXt4j)
I had the 1/2 fairing version, the Sprint Executive, with the 885cc triple. That was a good sport-TOURING chassis. I put 25,000 miles on mine over four or five years of ownership. No complaints. that 1200cc four was a great engine.
I'm sure the lack of support for the T300s, no to mention buyers not knowing what they are, is good reason for lack of response.
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That is $500 more than I’d give someone for a bike with 174,000 miles on it.
The $500 "trade in allowance" was probably just a courtesy of the dealership, to make the customer feel better, and not ACV.
Sounds better than "we can't take that on trade". Just give up $500 from the profit on the new bike to make the sale happen, then send the 174,000 mile bike to the crusher.
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The $500 "trade in allowance" was probably just a courtesy of the dealership, to make the customer feel better, and not ACV.
Sounds better than "we can't take that on trade". Just give up $500 from the profit on the new bike to make the sale happen, then send the 174,000 mile bike to the crusher.
I'd don't think any dealers is just going to give away profit. No doubt on paper they offer $500 as a "trade allowance" but rolled that into some other part of the deal.
This is one reason I could care less about trade value or the cost of the bike, it all mental masturbation with numbers to try and make it look like you are getting a good deal. On the rare occasion I buy a new motorcycle or vehicle all I what to know it the OTD price. I don't care how the dealer gets to that number it's all I want to see.
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This is why (to my wife's chagrin) I just keep them...... Don't even bother selling. Am now at 7.... lol
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I've sold two bikes in the last week - one planned and one "surprise".
I advertised the '90 Cal III FF I rode out to the Oregon coast and back this Summer, very little interest for about a week. Then, a gentleman who had been following the build thread on my business Facebook page decided to buy it. Full asking price, no dickering. Came the whole way from Arkansas to get it.
Last Thursday I sold the Suzuki DR200SE that I've had less than a year and have only had on the road for a month. A guy traveling the US in his van wanted a bike to haul on a rear carrier and the DR was just perfect for him. Sold it for more than market value.
Only one more to go ('77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada) and I already have a buyer lined up. :azn:
That’s what I figure, if someone wants the bike there’s not a lot of talking and weeks of conversation. They just get the basics and come get the bike. The others don’t have the money for it but wish they did and just want to talk about buying the bike. Most seem to just be bored and want to talk. I’ve had 5 people coming to get the LeMans. When it’s time to finalize the sale they are no shows and no longer answer emails or txts. For the low price we get for Guzzi motorcycles it’s almost not worth the hassle of the sale.
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I've been without a Buell for 861 days. Today the counter will reset as I am leaving in about 45 minutes to pick up another Buell Ulysses.
Bike sales seem to be as normal.
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Glad for your experiences. it seems to be a buyers market though.
inditx
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Glad for your experiences. it seems to be a buyers market though.
inditx
I don't really know if there is a buyers or sellers market so much as just "A" market. Sure there are times when thing slow down or speed up but the market endures and desirable motorcycles that are priced reasonably sell quickly. Undesirable stuff lingers around unsold. The Buell I just bought like Guzzi has virtually no market for it so when I go to sell it, I'll either have to price it so low to entice someone that would not normally be inerested to bite or to price it at fair market value and wait for "that" one buyer to come along.