Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: SLDMRossi on November 05, 2024, 03:17:06 PM
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https://motomorini.eu/anteprime-eicma-2024/
Steven Rossi
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P.S. -- 3 1/2 is a 60-degree V-Twin, instead of 72.
SR
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I kinda like it!! :thumb: :cool: :bow: :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/2yHK0tr/Screenshot-2024-11-06-at-7-47-40-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/2yHK0tr)
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I like the 3 1/2. You can see the lineage that the designers pulled from.
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Moto Morini motorcycles are built in our 2.5 million square foot ZNEN Tier 1 factory based in Taizhou, China with 27 years of motorcycle building experience. While all motorcycle development, engineering, and testing are maintained at our European headquarters in Milan, Italy.
Wonder how long until there are the same bikes being sold on Amazon under a different name for $2,500 including 2-day delivery.
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Morini's EICMA Press Conference Video ... with English subtitles.
Steven Rossi
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzaJvVcvInI&t=385s
SR
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Great image from Eicma...
https://scontent-bos5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/465726026_976546904500728_4226403118165819295_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=ZBVmbuFTywcQ7kNvgFjU_bw&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-bos5-1.xx&_nc_gid=AGWnQeytDrg6IbkqZqKolJW&oh=00_AYAA_SEaIid9nAJnmn0YIdgQ0zlTpu19mXzLtqG5JDY8-A&oe=6735432F
SR
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Great image from Eicma...
https://scontent-bos5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/465726026_976546904500728_4226403118165819295_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=ZBVmbuFTywcQ7kNvgFjU_bw&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-bos5-1.xx&_nc_gid=AGWnQeytDrg6IbkqZqKolJW&oh=00_AYAA_SEaIid9nAJnmn0YIdgQ0zlTpu19mXzLtqG5JDY8-A&oe=6735432F
SR
Is the a vintage bike on the left, and the new bike on the right (background)?
To me, the new bike is quite a bit different than the vintage one. And I bet no Heron heads either. But the glass is half full, at least someone is keeping the name alive.
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Is the a vintage bike on the right, and the new bike on the left (background)?
To me, the new bike is quite a bit different than the vintage one. And I bet no Heron heads either. But the glass is half full, at least someone is keeping the name alive.
The one on the left is the vintage one, evidenced by the drum brakes. :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/r61F0MW/Morini-3-1-2-old-and-new.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r61F0MW)
My own '77 Strada:
(https://i.ibb.co/MPmYsxJ/Morini-photo-by-Karl.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MPmYsxJ)
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The one on the left is the vintage one, evidenced by the drum brakes. :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/r61F0MW/Morini-3-1-2-old-and-new.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r61F0MW)
My own '77 Strada:
(https://i.ibb.co/MPmYsxJ/Morini-photo-by-Karl.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MPmYsxJ)
I made a left-right error in my orig. message (now corrected). Yes, the left one is the vintage one. Odd, that they should display the old one more prominently than the new one they are promoting.
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Moto Morini motorcycles are built in our 2.5 million square foot ZNEN Tier 1 factory based in Taizhou, China with 27 years of motorcycle building experience. While all motorcycle development, engineering, and testing are maintained at our European headquarters in Milan, Italy.
”our factory” and “our headquarters” ?
It’s not impossible, but I just didn’t know, that’s all.
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By "our factory" they are referring to their parent company ZNEN's (Zhongneng Vehicle Group) factory.
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I have a hard time with this one. I dig the idea of Moto Morini being an option, they were cool bikes back in the day. But is it an Italian bike, if it's made in China? I believe MV and SWM are made in China as well. BSA and RE are both made in India, but like to cash in on their UK heritage, very much the same thing. The claim is they are designed in the origin country, and then farmed out to a location that can make they for less. I get the concept, I have bought other products with the same business plan, and they have mostly been well made. Perhaps I suffer from a bit of Xenophobia?
But Moto Morini, as cool as it may be, isn't an Italian bike, and the others aren't really Italian or UK either. To my mind that's okay, why not, but don't try to pass yourself off as if you are. Every Moto Guzzi I have ever had was put together in Northern Italy, to me that makes it an Italian bike. shrug
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I have a hard time with this one. I dig the idea of Moto Morini being an option, they were cool bikes back in the day. But is it an Italian bike, if it's made in China? I believe MV and SWM are made in China as well. BSA and RE are both made in India, but like to cash in on their UK heritage, very much the same thing. The claim is they are designed in the origin country, and then farmed out to a location that can make they for less. I get the concept, I have bought other products with the same business plan, and they have mostly been well made. Perhaps I suffer from a bit of Xenophobia?
But Moto Morini, as cool as it may be, isn't an Italian bike, and the others aren't really Italian or UK either. To my mind that's okay, why not, but don't try to pass yourself off as if you are. Every Moto Guzzi I have ever had was put together in Northern Italy, to me that makes it an Italian bike. shrug
Totally agree. Benelli is Chinese now.
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MV, KTM, Gas Gas, Husqvarna are all owned by Pierer Mobility based in Austria.
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I am comfortable with Royal Enfield being made in India, since India was a British colony, and might have had a real Enfield factory long ago. As for the Chinese and Italian...feelings are mixed. Particularly since some brands may be made in China, but have a shared corp. ownership/design in Italy. It's complicated.
I used to have an East German bike, an MZ Sport Cup. It was built in E. Germany, but had a Yamaha engine designed and built in Italy. So....
(https://i.ibb.co/hVF1VLx/MZ.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVF1VLx)
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Most of the Honda models that are 500cc or less sold in the USA are made in Thailand due to a long history of tariffs, trade agreements, corporate income tax breaks, and the reduced cost of labor to build there. They're still similar quality to the Japanese made ones, and that can even be compared for Super Cub variants that were manufactured in both countries. This is common for Yamaha and Kawasaki as well, thanks in part to ASEAN Free Trade Area (AFTA) and the Japan-Thailand Economic Partnership Agreement (JTEPA). Those same factors also play into why all new Harley-Davidson Revolution Max engine bikes will be complete knock down kits assembled in Thailand.
My issue with the Moto Morini is that it's a revival under Chinese ownership. They didn't take an Italian motorcycle and offshore it to another country for production, they started with production outside of Italy. That would be like if after Polaris purchased Indian Motorcycles they had started production of all new models outside the USA.
Country of origin doesn't matter to me so much as the reputation. Actual Hondas built in China (the current Honda XR150L engine) live up to the brand's reputation of quality and reliability, for example. Even Apple make products to a high standard in China just fine. However, I have no familiarity with ZNEN and the only Moto Morini's I've seen were in my mind built by a different company than this one, the continuity is lost and they may as well be a new brand trying to establish themselves in new markets at this point. It seems they are aware of that, as they offer an incredible warranty to bring confidence to buyers. If the bikes appealed to me enough I wouldn't shy away from one as someone with backup transportation and other bikes to ride, but it wouldn't be my pick for a RTW trip!
This video sheds some light on the various reputable brand parts that they source, which are also made in China. It's a video that Moto Morini promote on their own site:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG1fIrffQmk
I'll also mention that changing countries of manufacture sometimes IMPROVES quality! Look at Ural. After they moved production to Kazakhstan and took that opportunity to update their machining, the new ones are a leap ahead in terms of quality and reliability.
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The Lambertini 1200 engine was an absolute jewel. It was beautiful to look at and made great power. ( a friend has a 2006, It's fast). I hope they bring that motor back. It is above and beyond anything Morini makes right now. ( Lambertini also created the 3 1/2 motor in the 70's)
(https://bikes.motobank.co.uk/fp/292/moto-morini-corsaro-1200-2006-black_7.jpg)
I have the same issue with Benelli. The 1130 triple was a monster with superbike aspirations. The bikes they make now are sad in comparison.
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Most of the Honda models that are 500cc or less sold in the USA are made in Thailand due to a long history of tariffs, trade agreements, corporate income tax breaks, and the reduced cost of labor to build there. They're still similar quality to the Japanese made ones, and that can even be compared for Super Cub variants that were manufactured in both countries. This is common for Yamaha and Kawasaki as well, thanks in part to ASEAN Free Trade Area (AFTA) and the Japan-Thailand Economic Partnership Agreement (JTEPA). Those same factors also play into why all new Harley-Davidson Revolution Max engine bikes will be complete knock down kits assembled in Thailand.
My issue with the Moto Morini is that it's a revival under Chinese ownership. They didn't take an Italian motorcycle and offshore it to another country for production, they started with production outside of Italy. That would be like if after Polaris purchased Indian Motorcycles they had started production of all new models outside the USA.
Country of origin doesn't matter to me so much as the reputation. Actual Hondas built in China (the current Honda XR150L engine) live up to the brand's reputation of quality and reliability, for example. Even Apple make products to a high standard in China just fine. However, I have no familiarity with ZNEN and the only Moto Morini's I've seen were in my mind built by a different company than this one, the continuity is lost and they may as well be a new brand trying to establish themselves in new markets at this point. It seems they are aware of that, as they offer an incredible warranty to bring confidence to buyers. If the bikes appealed to me enough I wouldn't shy away from one as someone with backup transportation and other bikes to ride, but it wouldn't be my pick for a RTW trip!
This video sheds some light on the various reputable brand parts that they source, which are also made in China. It's a video that Moto Morini promote on their own site:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG1fIrffQmk
I'll also mention that changing countries of manufacture sometimes IMPROVES quality! Look at Ural. After they moved production to Kazakhstan and took that opportunity to update their machining, the new ones are a leap ahead in terms of quality and reliability.
I believe all the twin cylinder Triumphs are made in Thailand now as well
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As the owner of both a Benelli Tre-K and a Benelli 302 (and an earlier Tornado twin), all I can say is: they're completely different machines for two completely different sets of circumstances. But with that said, I can also confirm: I'm extremely happy with the way both satisfy they're intended market missions. Credit is given because credit is due. The old-fashioned way, by earning it.
So...I've already crawled all over the reborn Morini's (X-Cape and 6 1/2) which have recently arrived on these shores. I plan to take a serious look at the 3 1/2 when it (hopefully) lands here because it's more my cup of tea. With full understanding of its heritage and intent, of course.
Pending final inspection, I'd be quite comfortable putting it beside my 350 K2 if recent examples like the X-Cape are any indication.
Steven Rossi
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I made a left-right error in my orig. message (now corrected). Yes, the left one is the vintage one. Odd, that they should display the old one more prominently than the new one they are promoting.
They are both on the same display and it seems there's a crowd around the new one in the pic. I'm not sure why you think the old one is more prominently displayed
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I have a hard time with this one. I dig the idea of Moto Morini being an option, they were cool bikes back in the day. But is it an Italian bike, if it's made in China? I believe MV and SWM are made in China as well. BSA and RE are both made in India, but like to cash in on their UK heritage, very much the same thing. The claim is they are designed in the origin country, and then farmed out to a location that can make they for less. I get the concept, I have bought other products with the same business plan, and they have mostly been well made. Perhaps I suffer from a bit of Xenophobia?
But Moto Morini, as cool as it may be, isn't an Italian bike, and the others aren't really Italian or UK either. To my mind that's okay, why not, but don't try to pass yourself off as if you are. Every Moto Guzzi I have ever had was put together in Northern Italy, to me that makes it an Italian bike. shrug
Based on this there are few American technology companies. Apple, Motorola, Dell, HP all outsource to the orient.
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I believe you are correct Joliet. Very few complex products have all their parts made in house, or even made on the same continent. It's just a matter of degree and what a particular buyer is looking for.
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Good news ... I've received official confirmation: YES, the new 3 1/2 WILL be coming to the U.S. in 2025.
Stay tuned,
Steven Rossi
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There is a 1977 3 1/2 moto morini for sale locally. I saw it at my local bike shop. I like it and like small bikes but I really don't need another motorcycle right now. I also prefer the ones with the big grimeca front brake over the cylinder brakes. It's an aesthetic thing.
(https://i.ibb.co/sJvHx7Y/Screenshot-2024-11-19-at-5-42-19-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/sJvHx7Y)
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/340891138516820/?ref=marketplace_profile&referral_code=undefined
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I REALLY like that Allthr...Alltr....A llth....what an awful name, but a cool bike in a good displacement, with a 21" front.
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Based on this there are few American technology companies. Apple, Motorola, Dell, HP all outsource to the orient.
The difference is who is running the show. A better analogy to those American technology companies would be BMW, which outsources engines to China but is firmly in control of the design and company. In the case of the so-called Moto Morinis, a Chinese company (ZNEN) owns and controls the entire organization, as well as building the bikes in China. They bought the Morini name for 10 million Euro paid to the Italian owners, the price of ten houses in my area and a tiny fraction of their total capitalization. They then initiated production at a large plant in China while employing a small crew in Italy that has no authority or control over their company. That provides plausible deniability that it’s not an entirely Chinese company.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Znen
Benelli is much the same, but it’s a different Chinese company that owns, controls and runs the show.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianjiang_Motorcycle
The 2024 versions of SWM and MV Agusta have foreign ownership and Chinese content (and Chinese ownership by Shineray in the case of SWM) but their Italian organizations have more scope of control, even if the companies now using those names have absolutely nothing to do with the original companies. Both of those current manufacturers are descended from Cagiva, which was itself originally Aermacchi.
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I got to have a look at a Morini x-cape at EuroCycle Reno, NV. It looks pretty decent, better than I thought. Still, If I was looking for a new bike in this price range, I'd have a serious look at the new Royal Enfields. The new Himalayan 650 should be around the same price.
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MV, KTM, Gas Gas, Husqvarna are all owned by Pierer Mobility based in Austria.
At least for now. With their massive financial issue someone else may own them shortly.
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Good news ... I've received official confirmation: YES, the new 3 1/2 WILL be coming to the U.S. in 2025.
Stay tuned,
Steven Rossi
The Guzzi dealer in Prescott, AZ, (Powersports Outlet), now carries Moto Morini, and he has models on the floor right now! :thumb: :cool: :boozing: :wink: :grin:
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Word is the engine is a development of the one used in the QJMotor SRV300.
https://qjmotor.ssrmotorsports.com/models/srv300.php
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Owned a 3_1/2 through mid 1980s to late 1990's. Last seen with roughly 55k (Canadian km) on the clock when I foolishly re-homed it. Idiot.
The retro version is pretty appealing.
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I am comfortable with Royal Enfield being made in India, since India was a British colony, and might have had a real Enfield factory long ago. As for the Chinese and Italian...feelings are mixed. Particularly since some brands may be made in China, but have a shared corp. ownership/design in Italy. It's complicated.
I used to have an East German bike, an MZ Sport Cup. It was built in E. Germany, but had a Yamaha engine designed and built in Italy. So....
(https://i.ibb.co/hVF1VLx/MZ.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVF1VLx)
So....? They're out of business. Gone. Kaput
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Wonder how long until there are the same bikes being sold on Amazon under a different name for $2,500 including 2-day delivery.
Yep. And then people will wonder why the European factories closed down.
But it'll be ok because they can get their cheap Chinese rebel with any Italian badge they want on it. When I'm 70 I'll get one badged as a v7 sport with all the latest chinese electronics.
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I am really liking this 3 1/2. Conventional styling, decent size gas tank, flat seat. No gee gaws.
I put 50,000 miles on a Kawasaki 250 Ninja and had a total blast. A light weight bike with great handling and about 30 horsepower is a fun bike. Maybe fun in a different way than a bigger more powerful bike, but still great fun.
I’m looking forward to seeing one in person.
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As much as you might want to avoid it, it is impossible not to support the Chinese Government in our society these days. Clothing and most small electronics are unavoidable. However, and this is just my opinion, when I have a choice, I refuse, period the end. I know the arguments about 1/2 of Harley Davidson is sourced from China these days and I am sure some of the parts on our beloved MGs are too. I can accept that. But, I will quit riding if my only choices for finished motorcycles were to come from China. Fortunately, our market is saturated with nice used bikes if it were ever to come to that. Their government (not individual people who I am sure are great) are our enemy.
Rant over, flame suit on (if this post survives the mods).
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As much as you might want to avoid it, it is impossible not to support the Chinese Government in our society these days. Clothing and most small electronics are unavoidable. However, and this is just my opinion, when I have a choice, I refuse, period the end.......... Their government (not individual people who I am sure are great) are our enemy. Rant over, flame suit on.
Pretty much my take on things, too.
Although I am intrigued by the CFMOTO 800 cc bike.
Rebranded Chinese-made stuff: somehow seems disingenuous to me. YMMV
-Stretch
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I took a look at Morini USA. Not impressed. The models have liq cooled 650cc parallel twin engines, with weights between 448 to 514 lbs.
The Guzzi V7 does it better.
The Euro Morini site does show a 3 1/2 with a V- twin, but no specs. The model is "coming soon."