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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: slowmover on March 26, 2025, 08:22:11 PM
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Are open face helmets more dangerous than the most common ones with the chin guard? I’ve always preferred being able to open the visor on occasion and having a generally more open view.I have the LS2 but it’s 10 years old and I’m shopping.
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Before the tsunami of anecdotal responses come flooding in…
If a helmet’s function is to maximise both shock absorption and abrasion trauma resistance, then the safest ones have to be those that provide the most protection against the sum of each of those.
Therefore the question to be asked is..?
Which one exposes more of your bare skin to the road in an accident ?
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There's no doubt that FF helmets are "safer" than open face.
The question is by what margin and what is your comfort with risk?
I almost exclusively have worn a 3/4 open face for the past three decades (300k+ miles and 2 high sides, one low side) or so. I have occasionally worn a FF, but it's not my preference.
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I used an open face many years so when it became hard to find a decent one, I went to modular helmets. They don’t have the structural strength of a full face helmet but the changeability is nice.
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This shows impact ares by percentages.
(https://i.ibb.co/rGMntBtW/hurt-report-helmet.png) (https://ibb.co/rGMntBtW)
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(https://i.ibb.co/dwbsV6Sg/IMG-4565.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dwbsV6Sg)
That is my helmet after a high side 2 years ago. Had that been an open face helmet, I would not be typing this. I went face first into the asphalt.
ICON made a helmet some years back called the “Statistics” helmet. The graphic showed a percentage of crashes where a helmet wearer hit that part of the helmet. IIRC it was based on an accident study results.
A rather large percentage added up from the chin bar area alone. Something on the order of 30%. Your face, your money.
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I would have scraped off my face twice without a FF helmet, and crushed my face once without one, when the chin bar cracked and only my nose broke. I have never used anything but FF since I started riding in 1980. However, as someone said above, it is all about what level of risk you will accept and what you are willing to wear to reduce the risk. If you generally ride at a moderate pace and are careful when cornering, you will be statistically safer using no gear at all, than a hot-shot riding at break-neck speeds like on a race track wearing top notch racing garment.
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Another full face helmet for life guy here. I am so used to it after 40+ years that I think I would be psychologically unable to ride with anything else.
I also like the quiet you get with ear plugs in. In the cold months, I like the extra wind protection that lets me stay a little warmer and in hot summer, I complain as much as anyone about the added heat. Life is about compromises.
Good luck with your choice.
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I would have scraped off my face twice without a FF helmet, and crushed my face once without one, when the chin bar cracked and only my nose broke. I have never used anything but FF since I started riding in 1980. However, as someone said above, it is all about what level of risk you will accept and what you are willing to wear to reduce the risk. If you generally ride at a moderate pace and are careful when cornering, you will be statistically safer using no gear at all, than a hot-shot riding at break-neck speeds like on a race track wearing top notch racing garment.
well said.
Oddly enough trials riders all use open face helmets, and they are probably much more likely to face plant than any other riders.
I chipped a tooth once falling on my trials bike. Would not have happened with a full face helmet.
I suspect visibility is the primary advantage or at least perceived advantage of an open face helmet.
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This one's easy...do you want an open or closed-casket funeral?! :popcorn:
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My main helmet is a Nolan 100-5 modular. The chin bar is on an elliptical track so it can be used open without the chin bar sticking way up in the wind. The chin bar had a double latching system so it is less likely to open in a crash and has been shown to be effective in testing. For me the Nolans, I have had a couple, are tight in the cheek and sometimes the forehead areas. A little foam trimming can alleviate that problem, that's what I have done with mine.
kk
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FWIW, I now have 1500 miles on a new LS2 Advent carbon fiber modular. Best venting, field of view, clarity in both shields, and the fit for me is great. Its chin bar rotates back to make it a DOT legal 3/4 when you want a 3/4.
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FWIW, I now have 1500 miles on a new LS2 Advent carbon fiber modular. Best venting, field of view, clarity in both shields, and the fit for me is great. Its chin bar rotates back to make it a DOT legal 3/4 when you want a 3/4.
Yes but our O.P. was asking about the safety aspect, regarding leaving your flesh and bone fragments clogging up the asphalt in a face first skull grinding escapade…
Not how comfy it is.
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It takes a surprisingly small amount for force applied to the chin upward and a bit back to cause a fatality.
Just ask Dale Sr.
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It takes a surprisingly small amount for force applied to the chin upward and a bit back to cause a fatality.
Just ask Dale Sr.
I did, but he’s not returning my calls.
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I did, but he’s not returning my calls.
He prolly doesn't speak Strayun...
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Consider an ADV helmet - either fixed chin or modular - as they have a very large eye port. I like my Scorpion AT-950 for that reason.
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Helmets are personal preference, so don’t take this a recommend or non-recommend.
I’ve worn all manner of helmet. From Arai to X-Lite and most of the ones in between.
If there is one thing I’ve learned from all of that, plus some time in sales is that you, the wearer should be quite cognizant of your own personal head shape when choosing a helmet.
Arai classify their helmets as fitting a round oval, long oval or intermediate/relaxed oval. That last one depends on when you bought your last Arai. They’ve changed terminology a bit since I was in sales.
Thing about that tidbit of information is, no other company does that. LS2 sorta does it but most of their helmets are termed “long oval” fit in their classification. Their more round offers are less round than one would expect, particularly if basing your choice on Arai experience.
All of the rest with possible exception of some ICON lids are a crap shoot when it comes to what shape noggin they fit. Why is this important to the relevant discussion of open face or full face? Because too many riders base their choice on how snug the helmet fits. And if it’s snug, go up a size.
A kid I worked with a decade and a half or more ago did this. When he wrecked on his 1st ride aboard his brand spanking new CBR600RR he went face first into a sign post. The helmet, being too large rotated forward on his head smashing his face along with the pole. He died 4 times on the operating table as surgeons worked to rebuild his facial bones. He never regained his sense of smell and got addicted to opioids in the process of recovery. Ended his career.
Point is, had he worn an open face helmet of any type, he’d have added to the states fatality statistics. A proper fitting helmet and he’d probably have walked away with just a broken collar bone….aside from all the facial injuries, that’s the only other broken bone he sustained.
So, buy a helmet of your choice. Make sure it fits your head shape and is comfortably snug…it should feel like your helmet is giving your head a hug. Ride and enjoy yourself. Protect yourself as best you can and gear up for the crash, not the ride.
BTW, I am a lifelong full face helmet wearer. My 1st ride was as a passenger in the late 1960s. I was given an open face helmet to wear….and 5 minutes in I knew that was a poor choice….at age 4 I knew this without a shadow of doubt in my child brain. Just sayin’. If a 4 year old figured it out…..
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All depends on your risk tolerance. I have had my share of crashes but never a face plant. A fair number of scratched up helmets though. I wear a full face for track days and straightening curves with a boys and sometimes girls. For touring its a 3/4 helmet with full flip up visor.
FWIW I wore an original Bell Star back in 70s and still have it.
Pete
Go fast, take chances.
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"...FWIW I wore an original Bell Star back in 70s and still have it.
Pete
Go fast, take chances.
I still have a Shoei Wayne Gardner replica helmet in a box in the garage!
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Helmets are personal preference, so don’t take this a recommend or non-recommend.
I’ve worn all manner of helmet. From Arai to X-Lite and most of the ones in between.
If there is one thing I’ve learned from all of that, plus some time in sales is that you, the wearer should be quite cognizant of your own personal head shape when choosing a helmet.
Arai classify their helmets as fitting a round oval, long oval or intermediate/relaxed oval. That last one depends on when you bought your last Arai. They’ve changed terminology a bit since I was in sales.
Thing about that tidbit of information is, no other company does that. LS2 sorta does it but most of their helmets are termed “long oval” fit in their classification. Their more round offers are less round than one would expect, particularly if basing your choice on Arai experience.
All of the rest with possible exception of some ICON lids are a crap shoot when it comes to what shape noggin they fit. Why is this important to the relevant discussion of open face or full face? Because too many riders base their choice on how snug the helmet fits. And if it’s snug, go up a size.
A kid I worked with a decade and a half or more ago did this. When he wrecked on his 1st ride aboard his brand spanking new CBR600RR he went face first into a sign post. The helmet, being too large rotated forward on his head smashing his face along with the pole. He died 4 times on the operating table as surgeons worked to rebuild his facial bones. He never regained his sense of smell and got addicted to opioids in the process of recovery. Ended his career.
Point is, had he worn an open face helmet of any type, he’d have added to the states fatality statistics. A proper fitting helmet and he’d probably have walked away with just a broken collar bone….aside from all the facial injuries, that’s the only other broken bone he sustained.
So, buy a helmet of your choice. Make sure it fits your head shape and is comfortably snug…it should feel like your helmet is giving your head a hug. Ride and enjoy yourself. Protect yourself as best you can and gear up for the crash, not the ride.
BTW, I am a lifelong full face helmet wearer. My 1st ride was as a passenger in the late 1960s. I was given an open face helmet to wear….and 5 minutes in I knew that was a poor choice….at age 4 I knew this without a shadow of doubt in my child brain. Just sayin’. If a 4 year old figured it out…..
Well said. Many years ago I went to a motorcycle show in Charlotte, NC and I was looking at the display of Arai helmets. The Arai representative took one look at me and asked: "Have you ever worn an Arai helmet?" I replied "No." He said "Due to your head shape, I know for a fact that you have never worn a helmet that fits you properly!"
He picked out a model, I think it was a Signet and said "Try this on."
He was right. I had been riding for over 20 years at the time and it was the first properly fitting helmet I ever wore!!!
Sold!
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I can tell a Shoei helmet just by the pain they cause and how badly they fit my skull. AGV come closest to fitting my head, although some Arais have been acceptable. Point is, Oca Grassa is right on the money about finding a helmet that fits snug all around, without giving pain.
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Well said. Many years ago I went to a motorcycle show in Charlotte, NC and I was looking at the display of Arai helmets. The Arai representative took one look at me and asked: "Have you ever worn an Arai helmet?" I replied "No." He said "Due to your head shape, I know for a fact that you have never worn a helmet that fits you properly!"
He picked out a model, I think it was a Signet and said "Try this on."
He was right. I had been riding for over 20 years at the time and it was the first properly fitting helmet I ever wore!!!
Sold!
I first bought a Scorpion I thought fit well but gave me a bad pressure point on my forehead after riding a bit. I bought the kit from lid picker and found that in addition to having a very large head, I have a very oval head. The Arai Signet is the 1 helmet I've found that fits me. Based on p[ost above I'll have to try a LS2 sometime
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Helmets, gloves and boots are something I never buy online unless its a duplicate of something I already have. I have to check them for fit first. Shoeis don’t fit me but Arais do. Wish we had a place like Iron Pony closer to me. The Walmart of Motorcycle gear.
Pete
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I prefer to ride with an open-face helmet, but
I also frequently ride with a modular helmet. Depends on the bike,
weather, length of trip, type of riding, mood, etc..
A few years back, I read the results of a British study
which noted the differences in types and frequency of injuries
between full-face and open-face helmets. The results were better
with full-face helmets, but not by as much as I had anticipated. The
conclusion of the study was that full-face helmets provide somewhat
better protection, but either type of helmet was WAY better than no
helmet at all.
Ya pays your money and takes your chances......
-Stretch
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Are open face helmets more dangerous than the most common ones with the chin guard? I’ve always preferred being able to open the visor on occasion and having a generally more open view.I have the LS2 but it’s 10 years old and I’m shopping.
All major motorsports racing categories, either cars or motorcycles wear full face helmets. Only exception that I can think of are WRC where the driver and
co-pilot are in the most incredibly robust engineered cars. They need to have optimum visibility out of an enclosed vehicle and be able to communicate
with each other so open face is the best choice. Regarding motorcycles, trials competition is the only one that I can think of that wear open face. Again,
visibility is critical for bike placement, but this is a low speed endeavor.
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I've always been a FF guy. Flat tracked and roadraced for 30 years.
Last summer took a 2 week tour with friends, both had modulars. Was a little jealous that they could have a sandwich and drink without tearing their ears off- which only became obvious about the second week.
I have a 3/4 open face around as a spare/passenger and took a long weekend ride with it on the new-to-me '05 BMW RT. I was a little uncomfortable at first, but after losing my initial reservations it was great.
So, when I replace my touring helmet I will likely replace it with a modular. Being able to open the face has great value, and the difference in protection between modular and FF is probably insignificant at legal speeds.
All that said,
Crashing well takes practice like anything else. By the end of my first season racing I well knew to rotate before hitting the ground, saving my face and wrists. I don't recall having a roadrace crash that scuffed my chin piece. We should think about crashing, and practice it in our minds because it's a proven effective method to improve performance and a near inevitability that it will happen sooner or later.
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Crashing well takes practice like anything else. By the end of my first season racing I well knew to rotate before hitting the ground, saving my face and wrists. I don't recall having a roadrace crash that scuffed my chin piece. We should think about crashing, and practice it in our minds because it's a proven effective method to improve performance and a near inevitability that it will happen sooner or later.
Funny you should say that because now more than 40 years of martial arts training is what I've credited for never hitting my face/helmet on the ground in the three crashes I've had. I know that it could happen for sure, but I've had a lot of practice falling and I suspect it's helped so far.
I should also add that though I prefer a 3/4 open face, I don't currently have any bikes with windshields so I almost exclusively wear a pair of Nolan N70's which are technically full face helmets with a small removable chin bar and a massive face shield that goes all the way below my chin. Yeah it could open in a crash but it could also be a point of impact other than my face.
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I did not know that about the Nolan N70 helmets. On another website they were making a big deal about a new Schubert helmet with a removable chin bar. I think, but not sure, that it was said it was a first in the industry. I am a big fan of Nolan helmets, I have a Nolan modular 100-5. I had a Nolan 100-4 previously. They have a very highly rated chin bar that is very resistant to opening in a crash having a double latching mechanism. Another good feature is that the chin bar opens on an elliptical path staying close to the helmet so as to not create much drag so that it can be ridden in 3/4 mode.
kk
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I did not know that about the Nolan N70 helmets. On another website they were making a big deal about a new Schubert helmet with a removable chin bar. I think, but not sure, that it was said it was a first in the industry.
The newer of my two Nolans is a 2019, so I'm thinking the other is at least a 2018 or older.
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Are open face helmets more dangerous than the most common ones with the chin guard? I’ve always preferred being able to open the visor on occasion and having a generally more open view.I have the LS2 but it’s 10 years old and I’m shopping.
I've always worn a full face helmet. Several variables from standard to flip up chin bar, to a hybrid/modular Nolan with detachable chin bar.
For me it is more the full coverage of the windscreen from bugs, rocks, debris, and birds, all of which have committed suicide on my visor over the years.
I've only had one major 'rider down' incident in 40 years riding. That was over 20 years ago, and if I wasn't wearing a full face Snell Shoei, my left cheek and chin would have been ground to the bone rather than my helmets left side chin to ear as I low sided at 60-70.
Not even an issue for me, especially if doing long distance sport touring rides as I most often do.
I had a Soldier a few years back have a low speed drop and face planted on the curb with an open face skull cap. Was as Ugly as you think it would be. Had another who couldn't hold a curve and got tangled in a guard rail. Helmet caught an upright and tore his head off. Nothing's 100%
Safer? For head strikes on the top back and sides, probably equal unless it is a skull cap Harley type. Front, be it debris, curbs, etc. There really isn't a discussion is there? Assess your risk and ride your ride.
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I will put in my 0.02 here on something that has not been yet bought up. I have on several occasions been "hit" by very large flying bugs in the face shield. My thought was "I am sure happy that the face shield took that big splat and not my face...". One time I had to pull over to clean the windshield so that I could see! I don't know what it was but it was a big one! :shocked:
One other time I was hit by a rock, I don't think it was a very big rock but I sure would not want that thing to come in contact with my bare face...
Again my 0.02 from experience...
Me: Full Face, All THE TIME... I remember what my first instructor told us about helmets: Open Face Helmet, Closed Coffin...
Tony C
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I rode thru a swarm of honeybees with an open face helmet.The windshield took all of them but one that hit the bridge of my shades.I started wearing face shies after that.
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Hold on. When I say open face helmet I mean like this but almost always with the visor down.
(https://i.ibb.co/9k8hChZt/IMG-3953.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9k8hChZt)
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Somewhere near Winslow, AZ I was behind a semi on highway 40. The semi kicked up a large rock that hit the chin-piece on my FF helmet leaving a huge gouge in it. I imagined how my chin would have taken that impact and have continued to use a FF helmet ever since.
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Somewhere near Winslow, AZ I was behind a semi on highway 40. The semi kicked up a large rock that hit the chin-piece on my FF helmet leaving a huge gouge in it. I imagined how my chin would have taken that impact and have continued to use a FF helmet ever since.
Anybody else immediately start singing that song?
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It's a girl, my Lord, in a flatbed Ford
Slowin' down to take a look at me
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Hold on. When I say open face helmet I mean like this but almost always with the visor down.
(https://i.ibb.co/9k8hChZt/IMG-3953.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9k8hChZt)
That will protect you from bugs, but without the chin bar of a full-face helmet, a faceplant onto the pavement will not be pretty. I went down several times in my youth and each time the chin bar of the full face Bell helmet protected my face.
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You guys do know what you sound like right?
It's the same as every Karen that walks up to you at a gas station saying how dangerous motorcycles are, how her sister in law's, cousin's, step son died on one of those murdercycles because they are so unsafe, bla bla bla...
Some ride motorcycles, most do not.
Some are ATGATT, some (most?) are not.
Some (most?) wear FF, some do not. Hell how many don't wear helmets at all?
Do you guys always wear life jackets on a boat? Or only if the boat is a certain size? Or only during certain conditions on the lake or at sea?
I swear by the sound of it some of you guys are ATGATT in the shower.
OP asked, he got the question answered. Do you really think anyone else here still has a question about this?
Oh crap, now I sound like Huzo.... </thread> :shocked: :laugh: :boozing:
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"It's the same as every Karen that walks up to you at a gas station saying how dangerous motorcycles are, how her sister in law's, cousin's, step son died on one of those murdercycles because they are so unsafe, bla bla bla..."
Kev m- I was just talking about the buzz kill we have all experienced like you describe above. I mean, riding, singing a song in you helmet (face shield down), while passing through Winslow, AZ.... Been there done that. Stop for fuel and you have to listen to the story so they feel better about being too fearful to ride a MC. Makes you want to spray some gas on them and light a match :). The difference is that any of us that are here are asking for some helmet dialog. Some of the stories are not pretty but they make a point. Bottom line we are all big boys and girls and we might benefit from some of this dialog and then make up our own minds. Enough said, now I am going to listen to an old Eagles album...... Ken
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"Enough said, now I am going to listen to an old Eagles album...... Ken
Please keep the volume down-- we're already listening to Jackson Browne in this thread. Thx 😊
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I'm just here for the "I crashed 6 times and my full face saved me every time" and wondering why do you crash so often.
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You guys do know what you sound like right?
It's the same as every Karen that walks up to you at a gas station saying how dangerous motorcycles are, how her sister in law's, cousin's, step son died on one of those murdercycles because they are so unsafe, bla bla bla...
This would be an even more boring place if the conversation went as:
OP - "Are open face helmets more dangerous than the most common ones with the chin guard?"
1st Answer - "yes".
no following answers.
For what its worth, I don't wear a full face helmet every time. Sometimes its open face. Other times, its no helmet. And, the women I encounter at gas stations are always asking for rides of one kind, or another...
:boozing:
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Some of the newer modular helmets are rated as if they were full face helmets, and as mentioned also approved for riding with the chin up. Personally I used to only wear modular or dual sport helmets (chin bar is a ways from your chin) due to a bit of helmet claustrophobia where for the modular helmet I'd flip the chin up while stopped. I ended up trying a full face helmet with a large field of view, the HJC F70, and that has been a very tolerable full face helmet. Not for everyone though, different head shapes will determine which helmets fit and are safe for an individual.
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I tend to agree with kev m. One needs to decide what amount of risk is acceptable.
But if I'm going out on a bike, it's gonna be spectacular in nature, worthy of LOTS of bourbon at the service. Not because of a 10mph slide that knocks my chin into my shoulder blades. And after 25 years I still kiss my wife, so there's that. But we pick and choose what's right for us.
It IS possible the OP was unaware of the percentages are relating to chin impact. The helmet chart spells it out quite clearly.
It's the same when we were diving with tri-mix and even NITROX. Best to know all the "ins and outs" and where the flash point is prior to entering the water. Get all the facts, then make a decision seems to sum it up well.
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I hope I don’t regret this but…….
I removed a FF bell race quality helmet from a dead kid on a crotch rocket, I also was on the scene when EMS removed a non DOT skull bucket from a Harley rider who was alive and talking, lying on the highway but his arm was still inside the car he flew through.
I’ll admit I have no answers for the whys or why nots.
I wear a half helmet, skirt zipped in during the cold months. I simply can’t deal with the discomfort and anxiety a FF helmet causes me, it’s a dangerous distraction for some riders, thus rendering a FF less safe.
Like oils, seats and leather vs textile ridding gear, you decide and be willing to accept the outcomes.
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Hold on. When I say open face helmet I mean like this but almost always with the visor down.
(https://i.ibb.co/9k8hChZt/IMG-3953.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9k8hChZt)
I am going to buy an open face helmet soon. I need something that's not as hot as my full face Nolan. Is the one above OK? I've seen one of the LS2s in person and it seemed good quality. I need the drop down internal sun shade. I like the idea of a sun visor too, like the bill on a baseball cap, for sun protection.
What open face helmets are yinz using?
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Somewhere near Winslow, AZ I was behind a semi on highway 40. The semi kicked up a large rock that hit the chin-piece on my FF helmet leaving a huge gouge in it. I imagined how my chin would have taken that impact and have continued to use a FF helmet ever since.
FF helmet?
Isn't FF a shoe size width? Or maybe a bra cup size?
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You guys do know what you sound like right?
.......
Oh crap, now I sound like Huzo.... </thread> :shocked: :laugh: :boozing:
That is a badge of honor no matter where you go!!!
Wear it with pride!!
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I tend to agree with kev m. One needs to decide what amount of risk is acceptable.
But if I'm going out on a bike, it's gonna be spectacular in nature, worthy of LOTS of bourbon at the service. Not because of a 10mph slide that knocks my chin into my shoulder blades. And after 25 years I still kiss my wife, so there's that. But we pick and choose what's right for us.
It IS possible the OP was unaware of the percentages are relating to chin impact. The helmet chart spells it out quite clearly.
It's the same when we were diving with tri-mix and even NITROX. Best to know all the "ins and outs" and where the flash point is prior to entering the water. Get all the facts, then make a decision seems to sum it up well.
Since this has morphed into a song reference thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfmYCM4CS8o
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I hope I don’t regret this but…….
I removed a FF bell race quality helmet from a dead kid on a crotch rocket, I also was on the scene when EMS removed a non DOT skull bucket from a Harley rider who was alive and talking, lying on the highway but his arm was still inside the car he flew through.
I’ll admit I have no answers for the whys or why nots.
I wear a half helmet, skirt zipped in during the cold months. I simply can’t deal with the discomfort and anxiety a FF helmet causes me, it’s a dangerous distraction for some riders, thus rendering a FF less safe.
Like oils, seats and leather vs textile ridding gear, you decide and be willing to accept the outcomes.
Yep. Spoken like a responsible adult who understands risk and reward.
None of us know where that line will be drawn.
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I’m getting the LS2 Copter helmet above to replace my 10 year old LS2 open face.They also have a Versa model. They are on the cheaper side. My old one functioned ok for the riding I do. I stay off interstates and keep it under 60 mph. It is a noisy helmet.
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The biggest thing is it comfortable. the better it fits the more often, and longer you will ware it. The newer helmets are coming with bigger eye ports. Don't forget quiet! I have a Shoei neotech 3 with safety glasses and ear plugs and I can ride all day all night get up and do it again. whatever kind FIT and COMFORT!
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Oh crap, now I sound like Huzo.... </thread> :shocked: :laugh: :boozing:
You’ve got a ways to go before that happens Kev…
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You’ve got a ways to go before that happens Kev…
Encouragement is always good for the yungons!
Dare to be bold Kev M!
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I’m getting the LS2 Copter helmet above to replace my 10 year old LS2 open face.They also have a Versa model. They are on the cheaper side. My old one functioned ok for the riding I do. I stay off interstates and keep it under 60 mph. It is a noisy helmet.
I ordered the LS3 Copter, too. For me, being cooler in an open face is safer than being heat fatigued in a full face helmet. I will still have my Nolan Modular to use as needed.
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The new Shoei J Cruise 3 is being released shortly in the US. I have a Shoei Neotec 3 and will also add the J Cruise 3 for our hatter Summer months.
Understand that the chin bars in full face helmets are not included in helmet testing. Strange.
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The new Shoei J Cruise 3 is being released shortly in the US. I have a Shoei Neotec 3 and will also add the J Cruise 3 for our hatter Summer months.
Understand that the chin bars in full face helmets are not included in helmet testing. Strange.
It is included in ECE and SHARP helmet testing, DOT is just lagging behind as usual.
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Somewhere near Winslow, AZ I was behind a semi on highway 40. The semi kicked up a large rock that hit the chin-piece on my FF helmet leaving a huge gouge in it. I imagined how my chin would have taken that impact and have continued to use a FF helmet ever since.
I wonder if that rock was thrown from the tire of a passing flatbed Ford?