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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Error on May 18, 2025, 09:52:22 PM
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Looking for feedback on a proposed setup to remove the EVAP on a V7ii and add a catch can.
I find that because of my location humidity, temperature, and how long my rides are I end up with Mayo in both the airbox, and worse, the pan (sump) during spring and fall riding. After cleaning it out of the pan and blowing out the lines twice in the 2 years I have owned the bike I have some changes in mind. I have been reading threads on both the EVAP removal and catch cans. Just looking for input from anyone who has done it, or has some insight.
EVAP being removed not because I have any real issue with it, but it will give me space to mount the catch can and clean up the bike a little.
First the OEM EVAP setup currently on the bike
(https://i.ibb.co/yFw71v2n/OEM-setup.png) (https://ibb.co/yFw71v2n)
Here is what I am proposing. Removing the setup completely, and just running the a hose line from the tank to the bottom of the bike, without the valve on the line from the tank. Does that work without issues?
(https://i.ibb.co/0VydJ5ZQ/My-EVAP-setup.png) (https://ibb.co/0VydJ5ZQ)
Next my proposed breather setup. Im a little concerned this is going to end with a ton of oil being puked into a small catch can for some reason. Maybe someone with expereince can give me an opinion.
Factory setup
(https://i.ibb.co/DDGzVf1y/oem-breather.png) (https://ibb.co/DDGzVf1y)
My proposed setup. Note I am completely removing the line from the frame to the sump. Obviously capping both ends. The catch can would be sealed, no filter to vent. I don't care about a light misting of oil in the airbox, I do care about the amount of mayo ending up in the sump.
(https://i.ibb.co/9kg0yCyX/My-breather.png) (https://ibb.co/9kg0yCyX)
Any insight from those who have done it before would be helpful.
Thanks!
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You're running the wrong oil, or driving 10 miles and parking. Change your habits, not the bike.
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I was wondering if he was letting it warm up sufficiently. I haven't seen any emulsified oil in my smallblock motors or air boxes in the decade plus I've owned them.
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I’ve had milky oil in the past—engine and final drive—and it’s simply because I ride in all elements, including rain, and keep the bikes outside (change of atmospheric conditions means moisture will get in. Because of my factors, I monitor my oils more and sometimes halve my oil change intervals.
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The 883 Evo Sportster I used to own was notorious for milky oil during the winter months. I know it wasn't getting up to temperature partly because of the shorter trips also the Sportsters had a remote oil reservoir so they actually cooled pretty well. Best Harley ever built, wish I had kept it.
kk
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Wrote a bit before I had a coffee. Ill try again working on being polite.
Rides are a bit shorter at times, but such is life. Between Kids, work, and life I get out when I can. Sometimes that means a quick rip to the store, sometimes its for an hour at lunch, and sometimes its for a two day weekend, it all just depends on life. While I realize I'm a rarity on a guzzi, I'm not retired :thumb: Spring and summer riding in my location mean 10C (50F) with moisture in the air.
Oil is normally 10W60 Castrol, just this last change I moved to Liquidmoly 10W60 GT1. I haven't ridden the bike with it yet.
I suspect that oil is getting to temp most of the time, but my guess is cold ambient air with lots of moisture means condensation happens in the frame and heads. I understand that's a part of an air cooled bike, especially with this mounting configuration. However I would rather make some changes to the bike to suit my needs and correct an issue myself and others have had, than sell the bike.
I know others here have done both a catch can or a removal of the EVAP system (I don't think I've seen both on the same bike), looking for insight into their experiences. I have read the threads I can find, just needs thoughts on what I'm proposing.
Pic of the bike as everyone loves pics.
(https://i.ibb.co/4RZSqxbB/bike4236.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RZSqxbB)
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I hear you, and good luck.
Keep in mind that 10°C means a good 1/2 hour or more to get up to temp.
I'm not retired either and have two kids at home which restricts my riding. But I don't take a bike out if I don't think I'm going to be an hour or more and at least 50 miles.
I mean, maybe once in a while I do something shorter, but the cooler it is, the less likely.
Anyway, good luck with your modifications.
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I hear you, and good luck.
Keep in mind that 10°C means a good 1/2 hour or more to get up to temp.
I'm not retired either and have two kids at home which restricts my riding. But I don't take a bike out if I don't think I'm going to be an hour or more and at least 50 miles.
I mean, maybe once in a while I do something shorter, but the cooler it is, the less likely.
Anyway, good luck with your modifications.
I appreciate it.
This bike has become the new obsession/escape, to the point where last year I didn't make any track days out with the last project car because I was having too much fun riding. I imagine could solve all my issues by selling it and getting something water cooled, but where is the fun there?
I may start by pulling the EVAP, and see how the bike runs after. Them move on to the catch can plan.
My biggest concerns are
1) they way I'm venting the tank (just open hose to the ground). I believe the Euro Spec V7ii didn't have the EVAP can, any Euro members want to do me a solid and tell me how their venting is set up? The parts catalog and workshop manuals don't clear it up.
2) By eliminating the drain back to the sup am I actually taking away a vital return in the system, or as i suspect, just something that's draining mostly garbage and almost no oil back into the sump?
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I had similar experiences with my 16 V7 II . I did the modifications to the “breather” system. Lost thereturnhosethe vacuum hose routed the hose that returned to the crankcase into a catch can ,&ran a hose from crankcase up under fuel tank & put a lawnmower fuel filter on it . Overfilled oil level will slightly over pressure crankcase . I added a deep sump & run the level @ the lower mark . This also added a bit more oil capacity too. About every 1k miles or so I clean out about a tbsp. Of “baby -batter from catch can. I’m usually over speed limit & run 4-6 k rpm on big road . Oil consumption is negligible, a few oz. Every few thousand Mi. & change every 5K . 32k Mi. So far . Still a smile generating bike . Chase the stick chase the stick !
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I had similar experiences with my 16 V7 II . I did the modifications to the “breather” system. Lost thereturnhosethe vacuum hose routed the hose that returned to the crankcase into a catch can ,&ran a hose from crankcase up under fuel tank & put a lawnmower fuel filter on it . Overfilled oil level will slightly over pressure crankcase . I added a deep sump & run the level @ the lower mark . This also added a bit more oil capacity too. About every 1k miles or so I clean out about a tbsp. Of “baby -batter from catch can. I’m usually over speed limit & run 4-6 k rpm on big road . Oil consumption is negligible, a few oz. Every few thousand Mi. & change every 5K . 32k Mi. So far . Still a smile generating bike . Chase the stick chase the stick !
Just trying to understand your setup. So I am clear your running:
No hose from the frame to the air box
Single hose from the frame to a catch can
Original hose from the heads to the frame
Is that correct? So no vacuum in your system from the heads to the catch can?
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Correct , I didn’t notice if you mentioned mileage on the bike , it’s been my experience V7’s seem to loosen up &ride better @ about 18k miles . That’s not an exact figure but in that neighborhood. This is based on the 2 that I currently own . Or maybe that’s just me . I noticed the same thing on the BMW’s before that . A factory rep said that around that mileage it’s considered a “used “vehicle & doesn’t need to meet new euro five emissions specs .Maybe urban myth ! But they do seem to run better as miles accumulate. Your results may vary, as they say .Hope to see ya down the road
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I removed the evap canister on my V7 II a couple years ago. There’s a writeup on GuzziTech that I followed. Capped the vapor hose at the intake manifold. I plan to eventually do the same thing on my V7 III and maybe my V9.
I added a homemade catch can to my V7 III last year in order to race it, but just for the transmission breather (no more top hat), but the engine I left alone since the airbox was allowed as a collector. There’s V7 III engine breathing setup is different from the previous Herons, so I’m going to study that for a spell before I consider modifying it further.
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Correct , I didn’t notice if you mentioned mileage on the bike , it’s been my experience V7’s seem to loosen up &ride better @ about 18k miles . That’s not an exact figure but in that neighborhood. This is based on the 2 that I currently own . Or maybe that’s just me . I noticed the same thing on the BMW’s before that . A factory rep said that around that mileage it’s considered a “used “vehicle & doesn’t need to meet new euro five emissions specs .Maybe urban myth ! But they do seem to run better as miles accumulate. Your results may vary, as they say .Hope to see ya down the road
Bike is currently at 32K KMs (about 20K miles). About 12K of those are my KMs. To be honest I think the bike wasn't really maintained very well before i got my hands on it. I was taken for a bit of a ride so to speak when I bought it. It became very clear when I started doing some work to it that not much had been taken care of. Corrected all that now. Really my Mayo problem comes down to where I am, time of year, and how long I am able to have the bike out. No mayo in the summer, but spring and fall can cause some issues.
I removed the evap canister on my V7 II a couple years ago. There’s a writeup on GuzziTech that I followed. Capped the vapor hose at the intake manifold. I plan to eventually do the same thing on my V7 III and maybe my V9.
I added a homemade catch can to my V7 III last year in order to race it, but just for the transmission breather (no more top hat), but the engine I left alone since the airbox was allowed as a collector. There’s V7 III engine breathing setup is different from the previous Herons, so I’m going to study that for a spell before I consider modifying it further.
I just found the write up last night. Interestingly the suggestion is exactly how I had it in my head. Just a line from the tank to the ground, no valve. So that's what I'll go with.
As above, I've had no real issues with the EVAP, its only going away to give me some space for the catch can. Did you have any issues with the bike once you removed yours? Throttle, pressure, etc.? For reference, my bike has agostini no cat slip ons and a K&N filter. As far as I know its on the factory tune.
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Did you have any issues with the bike once you removed yours? Throttle, pressure, etc.? For reference, my bike has agostini no cat slip ons and a K&N filter. As far as I know it’s on the factory tune.
Other than a little extra gas stink, no issues. I would consider a Beetle custom map for overall better feel, especially sans cat.
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Wrote a bit before I had a coffee. Ill try again working on being polite.
Rides are a bit shorter at times, but such is life. Between Kids, work, and life I get out when I can. Sometimes that means a quick rip to the store, sometimes its for an hour at lunch, and sometimes its for a two day weekend, it all just depends on life. While I realize I'm a rarity on a guzzi, I'm not retired :thumb: Spring and summer riding in my location mean 10C (50F) with moisture in the air.
Oil is normally 10W60 Castrol, just this last change I moved to Liquidmoly 10W60 GT1. I haven't ridden the bike with it yet.
I suspect that oil is getting to temp most of the time, but my guess is cold ambient air with lots of moisture means condensation happens in the frame and heads. I understand that's a part of an air cooled bike, especially with this mounting configuration. However I would rather make some changes to the bike to suit my needs and correct an issue myself and others have had, than sell the bike.
I know others here have done both a catch can or a removal of the EVAP system (I don't think I've seen both on the same bike), looking for insight into their experiences. I have read the threads I can find, just needs thoughts on what I'm proposing.
Pic of the bike as everyone loves pics.
(https://i.ibb.co/4RZSqxbB/bike4236.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RZSqxbB)
How is a catch can going to eliminate the issue?
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Other than a little extra gas stink, no issues. I would consider a Beetle custom map for overall better feel, especially sans cat.
Its on the list. I find that the bike is a bit snarky when cold and in general at low throttle, but mine has not been as horrible as some have described. Maybe the beetle map will clear it up a bit. Its actually why I'm a bit nervous about removing the charcoal box, i haven't had any issues with it so far that others have run into. That said, I need the room for the catch can.
How is a catch can going to eliminate the issue?
not sure I understand the question. A catch can, in theory, should collect all the heavy water contaminated oil. By eliminating the line from the frame I am ensuring that it doesn't get back into the sump. By running a line from the catch can to the airbox, I keep the small amount of vacuum for the heads that was there in the stock system, and hopefully just eliminate the mayo getting into the airbox.
Is that what your asking?
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I don't think there's any vacuum present on that line.
It's basically a PCV type system meaning POSITIVE crankcase ventilation. Vapors containing some oil mist are pushed out by positive pressure.
That said perhaps there's some vacuum draw on the return line you're eliminating.
Personally I wouldn't do any of this. I would concentrate on preventing the mayo in the first place.
FYI Heron Heads, up to the V7C would occasionally go through all their oil on a road trip and toast the motor. The problem seems to have gone away with the 1TB models.
Did the return line contribute to this? I dunno. I don't remember if the 2TB had it too but kinda thought it didn't.
Then again I believe the MkI 1TB has a different vent system than either the 2TB or the MKII, but I'm not at my desktop to check that right now.
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I don't think there's any vacuum present on that line.
It's basically a PCV type system meaning POSITIVE crankcase ventilation. Vapors containing some oil mist are pushed out by positive pressure.
That said perhaps there's some vacuum draw on the return line you're eliminating.
Personally I wouldn't do any of this. I would concentrate on preventing the mayo in the first place.
FYI Heron Heads, up to the V7C would occasionally go through all their oil on a road trip and toast the motor. The problem seems to have gone away with the 1TB models.
Did the return line contribute to this? I dunno. I don't remember if the 2TB had it too but kinda thought it didn't.
Then again I believe the MkI 1TB has a different vent system than either the 2TB or the MKII, but I'm not at my desktop to check that right now.
Good info, and honestly exactly what I’m concerned about.
Eliminating the mayo in the oil I dont think is a real option. Pacific North West air, colder early and late season weather, and sometimes 45- 60min rides Aparently just don’t agree with this bike. Maybe the liquid Moly 10w60 is less prone to turning to milkshake than the castrol 10w60, but I don’t see how. I keep the bike generally between 4K and 6k rpm, with fun runs going to 7k or bouncing off the rev limiter if I’m not watching. I do not baby this bike, or lug the motor.
I say vacuum, but maybe that’s not the right word. The original configuration has a line going to the airbox from the frame. I’m keeping that connection with the catch can in the middle. I assume the intake adds a small
Amount of vacuum to those lines, but maybe I’m wrong.
I had the bike out for an hour today. Ran lovely, had someone ask me about it when I stopped at the store. It’s a super fun bike that runs very well and looks the the way I want now. I love this bike. Technically I could just ignore this, and clean out the pan once a year, but just knowing it’s there bugs the hell out of me.
If anyone has any suggestions on what I can do to make it not have water in the oil with the above in mind, I’m all ears!
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To be honest, I'm at a loss to help.
I wonder if say a different viscosity oil might reach a higher temperature sooner and therefore release moisture, but I can't say for sure.
I think if I was in your shoes I would certainly try and go from there.
I can't believe that say a synthetic racing 4t 10w-40 that can protect my wife's Ducati at 100 mph @ 90°F couldn't say protect your Guzzi at 50 mph @ 60°F.
I would be really curious to at least experiment.
I mean on the automotive side I feel like I have ~$125k between two vehicles with some sort of BS 0W-20 or so oil recommendation. I mean crap, if we can't run a < 10k air-cooled motorcycle on a 10w-40 that's double the viscosity warm. I mean we're comparing a 50 HP air-cooled motor with a 400 HP turbo running on 0W-20....
I mean, isn't it worth an attempt?!?
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To be honest, I'm at a loss to help.
I wonder if say a different viscosity oil might reach a higher temperature sooner and therefore release moisture, but I can't say for sure.
I think if I was in your shoes I would certainly try and go from there.
I can't believe that say a synthetic racing 4t 10w-40 that can protect my wife's Ducati at 100 mph @ 90°F couldn't say protect your Guzzi at 50 mph @ 60°F.
I would be really curious to at least experiment.
I mean on the automotive side I feel like I have ~$125k between two vehicles with some sort of BS 0W-20 or so oil recommendation. I mean crap, if we can't run a < 10k air-cooled motorcycle on a 10w-40 that's double the viscosity warm. I mean we're comparing a 50 HP air-cooled motor with a 400 HP turbo running on 0W-20....
I mean, isn't it worth an attempt?!?
Certainly worth a try, I've thought about this before as well. I'm not an engineer and I let machine shops deal with Bearings when I have bottom ends apart, but i know oil weights are partly determined by bearing clearances, so I get a bit nervous when changing around oils outside of what's recommended. However trying a 10W50 might help and i cant imagine will be an issue.
I'm somewhat out of my testing time, as its getting warm enough now i don't expect it to be much of an issue until the fall again.
I'm still really keen to see what happens with the catch can in this configuration, so I may still do it and test as the season goes on.
Ill update when I do!
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I am just going to throw something out here. I had a Harley Sportster that did the same thing. I really had no solution but changed the oil when It started to milk up. The Sporty uses a remote oil reservoir, in Harley talk an oil bag. I currently have a Cummins Ram pickup. It kind of suffers from the same problem in that in the winter doesn't maintain optimal engine temperature. I can watch the temperature gauge fluctuate as the thermostat opens and closes even going down the road on extended runs. I could change the thermostat but I would want to have the original during the very hot temperatures we Have where I live. Diesels are very sensitive to the temperature of the engine. My truck came with some unusual options, one was a snow plow package which included a kind of a bra to keep snow out of the engine compartment. It also blocks the amount of air that gets to the radiator. I put this on in the winter which allows the engine to get up to the proper temperature quicker and stay there. Would some type of shielding over the cylinders help with this issue? I think it would be worth a try. I would keep an eye on temperatures but I doubt that would be an issue. I had to let my V7lll idle for 13 minutes, another story, to reset the ECU. I was concerned that it might get hot so I was prepared to use a fan on the engine if needed. It never got overly warm during the 13 minutes. These engines run pretty cool as you well know. I would try some king of shields myself.
kk
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I am just going to throw something out here. I had a Harley Sportster that did the same thing. I really had no solution but changed the oil when It started to milk up. The Sporty uses a remote oil reservoir, in Harley talk an oil bag. I currently have a Cummins Ram pickup. It kind of suffers from the same problem in that in the winter doesn't maintain optimal engine temperature. I can watch the temperature gauge fluctuate as the thermostat opens and closes even going down the road on extended runs. I could change the thermostat but I would want to have the original during the very hot temperatures we Have where I live. Diesels are very sensitive to the temperature of the engine. My truck came with some unusual options, one was a snow plow package which included a kind of a bra to keep snow out of the engine compartment. It also blocks the amount of air that gets to the radiator. I put this on in the winter which allows the engine to get up to the proper temperature quicker and stay there. Would some type of shielding over the cylinders help with this issue? I think it would be worth a try. I would keep an eye on temperatures but I doubt that would be an issue. I had to let my V7lll idle for 13 minutes, another story, to reset the ECU. I was concerned that it might get hot so I was prepared to use a fan on the engine if needed. It never got overly warm during the 13 minutes. These engines run pretty cool as you well know. I would try some king of shields myself.
kk
Ha! I’m familiar. Not sure where you are but covering up the rad and such in a truck is pretty common up here in areas of Canada.
While I think that would actually help, I’m not sure if I could come up with a good enough design that would work well without causing issues (and not look terrible!).
We will see how the summer goes, it’s getting pretty warm so I should
Be good for now.
Thanks for the input.
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Update:
I removed the EVAP system, blocked off the intake hole and ran a new line as posted in my original drawing. All seems to be working well. No issues, no noises, no puddles or strange fumes so far. A couple of notes for anyone reading this:
1) The hole in the intake is a a pin hole, The hose adapter that is int he intake can come out if your not careful when removing the hose. That's what happened to me. I could not get it back in, it was a bit of a nightmare to deal with. Eventually I gave up trying and filled the hole with some RTV. works well and still looks good back on the bike.
(https://i.ibb.co/DD9ZK3nN/intake1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DD9ZK3nN)
filled
(https://i.ibb.co/ddVpTBn/intakefill.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ddVpTBn)
2) I ran new 1/4 inch fuel hose as the breathing line from the tank to the original routing to the bottom of the bike. You can also piece together the original hoses, but this seems like a more complete solution, and after 9+ years new hose isn't a bad idea anyway.
The other part of this project was adding the catch can. The catch can I ordered is just SLIGHTLY too big to fit the way i want it to. Combine that with finally having great weather, and having to swap a head gasket ont the bike (again oddly enough, but thats a diffrent post), and I put that on hold for now. Ill try to get back to it later in the year, and will update then!
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I just installed a small water trap in the drain from top frame tube to sump line on my V7 ll . I drain it every 200 miles roughly and not unusual to get a table spoon of water especially in winter . The breather system not a good design with the engine breather using the top frame tube as a plenum.Which is stone cold at start up so any water vapour condenses and returns back to the sump . The water trap seems to work well eliminating mayo for those riding year round in temperate climates.
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I'm a believer in big oil breather tanks with reed valves, in reducing blow-by, mayo and even (maybe) giving a slight power increase (large underseat 'corse' oil breather tank on my 916 is claimed to add some HP due to reducing pressure in the crankcase by, effectively making the volume bigger?).
All of my bikes (V-twins) have such a setup, on my LM2 I have the Agostini larger breather box with the feed from the crankcase passing through a large-bore reed valve (modified Ducati crankcase breather).
The breather tank setup does still return any oil that gathers in there back to the crankcase but I've never noticed any mayo and I'm in England where it's not particularly hot and is fairly humid, that said I don't ride in the cold or wet, at least not out of choice and the oil always seems to get to a good temperature on ride outs.
The only one of my bikes that had any kind of notable 'excrement' from the breather is my Monster which has a high-comp/tuned setup that seems prone to blow-by but I recently made a custom large (1L) breather/catch tank which seems to have resolved that, if there is any excess that gets through as vapour it just drips out of an overflow (no airbox to send it to) but since fitting the larger tank I've not noticed any drips on the garage floor.
Not sure if any of the above is of any use but thought it worth sharing.
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I just installed a small water trap in the drain from top frame tube to sump line on my V7 ll . I drain it every 200 miles roughly and not unusual to get a table spoon of water especially in winter . The breather system not a good design with the engine breather using the top frame tube as a plenum.Which is stone cold at start up so any water vapour condenses and returns back to the sump . The water trap seems to work well eliminating mayo for those riding year round in temperate climates.
I think I saw someone else do something similar here with a few pictures. Please post pictures of your setup if you can, Id love to see it.
I'm a believer in big oil breather tanks with reed valves, in reducing blow-by, mayo and even (maybe) giving a slight power increase (large underseat 'corse' oil breather tank on my 916 is claimed to add some HP due to reducing pressure in the crankcase by, effectively making the volume bigger?).
All of my bikes (V-twins) have such a setup, on my LM2 I have the Agostini larger breather box with the feed from the crankcase passing through a large-bore reed valve (modified Ducati crankcase breather).
The breather tank setup does still return any oil that gathers in there back to the crankcase but I've never noticed any mayo and I'm in England where it's not particularly hot and is fairly humid, that said I don't ride in the cold or wet, at least not out of choice and the oil always seems to get to a good temperature on ride outs.
The only one of my bikes that had any kind of notable 'excrement' from the breather is my Monster which has a high-comp/tuned setup that seems prone to blow-by but I recently made a custom large (1L) breather/catch tank which seems to have resolved that, if there is any excess that gets through as vapour it just drips out of an overflow (no airbox to send it to) but since fitting the larger tank I've not noticed any drips on the garage floor.
Not sure if any of the above is of any use but thought it worth sharing.
Thanks for the info. I will abosolyut get somthing working, I am hoping to still make my catch can idea work, but I think I may need to find one thats just slightly smaller.
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For my race training last year, I made an oil catch can out of a mini Gatorade bottle, a couple hose barbs, and some Gorilla glue.
Use a pill bottle or some heavier duty plastic container that your hoarding partner won’t miss, paint it with the coolest new PlastiDip color, or keep it bare so that the prescription label provides nostalgic memories for years to come.
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For my race training last year, I made an oil catch can out of a mini Gatorade bottle, a couple hose barbs, and some Gorilla glue.
Use a pill bottle or some heavier duty plastic container that your hoarding partner won’t miss, paint it with the coolest new PlastiDip color, or keep it bare so that the prescription label provides nostalgic memories for years to come.
Even if I use this catch can, I'm now putting a prescription label on it.
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I’ve had milky oil in the past—engine and final drive—and it’s simply because I ride in all elements, including rain, and keep the bikes outside (change of atmospheric conditions means moisture will get in. Because of my factors, I monitor my oils more and sometimes halve my oil change intervals.
Water in the final drive, I had that earlier on with my V7III Special
It turned out that when riding in the rain spray from the front wheel would enter the drive tunnel through the boot.
The boot was attached using a Q strap which wasn't clamping at the bottom where the tail entered the ratchet.
A better clamp fixed that.
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Water in the final drive, I had that earlier on with my V7III Special
It turned out that when riding in the rain spray from the front wheel would enter the drive tunnel through the boot.
The boot was attached using a Q strap which wasn't clamping at the bottom where the tail entered the ratchet.
A better clamp fixed that.
ROY!
I believe you and I met last Sunday morning out in Fort Langley. I hope to see you there again!
I've never had any water in the final drive, for me its just been water ending up in the pan. Its been a year since I changed the final drive oil though, maybe Ill have a look again.
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Error, I'll be at the fort Sunday for sure.
Roy