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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: monkeyodeath on June 13, 2025, 10:20:21 AM
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Thinking of putting together a Tonti build, a little bit of a mix and match.
Not a cafe racer or a Lemans/V7 clone as much as a collection of things I personally like from various models over the years. A sport tourer with a lot more emphasis on the sport, but with a more standard riding position and the bodywork/tank of a late 70s bike.
Initially I thought I'd start with a base of a California EV1100 motor, as I like the idea of having fuel injection, better brakes, and the oomph of the 1100 motor (especially a hydro one). The tubeless spoked wheels of the EV are also a plus, although I don't mind the look of cast on the older bikes.
My one concern is handling -- does the longer swingarm and taller head tube make it noticeably worse than earlier Tontis? How different would it feel to ride than, say, an early 1000SP?
Would it make more sense from a handling perspective to go the opposite direction -- 1100 motor into an older bike and frame? Seems like the downside there is that I'd be losing that nicer front suspension and potentially the better brakes.
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I like my 84 SP handling a lot and an 1100 mototor would be the icing on the cake.
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I have a mixture of tall and short head, short, medium, and long swing arms.
I find the biggest issues are suspension condition and tire choice. A set of FAC dampers and a set of Koni's (Ikons) on my 850T make for a very nice sporting ride. Conti Classic attacks make it better.
It's easy to upgrade the brakes on the older bikes. Here's my T's brake set up.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZRZWNzSX/850-T-2024-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZRZWNzSX)
(https://i.ibb.co/5xckGqyx/850-T-2024-23.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5xckGqyx)
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Just my opinion, but the longer wheelbase Tontis are great on the highway, but aren't nearly as nimble on backroads.
I've started building a "CX1100" - a 2000 Jackal drivetrain in CX100 chassis. I bought the Jackal roller for only $350, and I had collected most of a CX100. Started mocking it up over Memorial Day weekend, then found that the frame was badly tweaked. Starting with a new-old-stock 850-T frame now, and having my welder friend move all of the necessary tabs and brackets over to it. I will retain the fuel injection system and Jackal wiring harness.
From this:
(https://i.ibb.co/BVpQSV9j/V65-SP-Jackal-CX1100-002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BVpQSV9j)
To this, in just a few hours.
(https://i.ibb.co/39PyrMGK/CX1100-stuff-to-sell-019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/39PyrMGK)
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Is the wider rear tire of an EV1100 helpful in getting the increased power/torque of the 1100 (especially the hydro) engine down to asphalt or is it more of a stability or load handling thing?
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I’d use the ‘98 on 45mm front forks instead of the 35mm . I’d also use the drive train with the better ujoint from a ‘02 on. On the other hand, a T series handles like a ten speed.. l spose it depends on the frame you start with.
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My '85 LeMans has +1" shocks on the rear, and dropped the forks 1" as well. It made a galaxy of difference, not the heavy turn-in and laying down once turned in that it had in the stock configuration- and far worse yet when it had an 18" front wheel, but I never tried lowering the front or different shocks with the 18. My '89 Mille GT would be magnificent with these mods- although I don't know the front end height stock in comparison to the LeMans. Even with the 16" front (16 tires are very high profile anymore, mitigating the difference) and short swingarm it's still dead stable in all conditions. Still not as light and neutral as my '97 1100 Sport, but that's to be expected.
(https://i.ibb.co/twsTxMPR/Le-Mans-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/twsTxMPR)
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I put on (I think 1” ) shorter rear shocks on my wife’s 04 Stone so she could flat foot it, and lowered the fork tubes I think by 3/4” ( I can check if you want specifics) but it made a huge difference in handling compared to my stock 03 EV. I have to remind myself every time I take it for a spin. I know your talking about a Tonti frame, and the idea of selecting/ matching parts for an individual bike, But if your looking for a sport touring guzzi, you ought to consider a 07 O8 Norge, you wouldn’t have the decreased maintenance of the Hydro, but the Norge brings on more grins when I get into up and down switch back country, while the EV in similar conditions requires more physical work and feels like a truck comparatively. However, I’ve never taken the time to check out the wife’s lowered Stone set up in switch backs, cus I’m usually in front on the Norge grinning.
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I have a ‘76 Lemans 850 motor and had an ‘98 1100 EV. EV is torquier but once the 850 gets over 4000 RPM it runs away from the Cruiser motor. Its definitely the quickest handling of all the Tontis and still stable at 130 mph or whatever max speed is. this is not just a subjective impression but the LeMans is over a second faster in the 1/4er and ten MPH greater trap speed.
If I were building a better sport tourer I would start with at least a 1100 sport motor. Plus I don’t see Fuel Injection as a positive if you want tweak the motor. Much easier swapping jets than coming up with the ideal map.
Pete
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does the longer swingarm and taller head tube make it noticeably worse than earlier Tontis?
Yes.
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It sounds like a SP1000 is perfect for you. IF I were you, I'd add a higher lift camshaft and bigger carbs. That's a lot easier than swapping engines. I added an X9 cam and 36mm delortos to my 850T. It's a blast.
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T3/G5/SP1000 frame and swing arm are my favorite for day rides.
Cal III to CalVin swing arm length and suspension for touring.
I have opinions regarding spine frames, but that's a different topic. :evil:
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T3/G5/SP1000 frame and swing arm are my favorite for day rides.
This. They are *sweet* handling bikes for an all arounder.
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I put Avon tires on my G5, one size up in width - if you can get them installed tubeless on the cast wheels, those are a great match. I had Pirelli Sport Demons before that, though also good, the Avon's give the G5 a lot more in the handling department, I would think this would be true with all the short swingarm Tonti models at least.