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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: faffi on November 18, 2025, 07:47:18 AM
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I just read an old road test of the Norge, and discovered that in order to check the oil level, you must first undo 7 screws in order to remove the LHS lower fairing to reach the dipstick. What :shocked:
Do you have similar stories to share?
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Why Piaggio doesn’t move the Moto Guzzi oil pan drain to the left side of the bike and the oil fill to the right side is beyond me. That way the oil could be changed on the side stand. Assuming the filter is recessed in the oil pan.
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There was an after-market extension that got around it.
I had a Honda that required the radiator be drained to check the valves.
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Changing the air filter on an 1800 Goldwing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0W31rMGm7U
Pete
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Changing the air filter on the 1400 is much more difficult than it should be. It should have been designed as a top insertion and extraction, not out the back.
That being said, the GW 1800 air filter is crazy.
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- Accessing the battery on a Ducati ST2 required removing half the fairing. It was mounted on the side of the engine...
- Every bike with the airbox under the gas tank. Stupid idea that seems to have become universal over the past 30 years. Remove the fuel tank to check/replace an air filter...
-Every Italian bike with the stupid, fragile, and hard to disconnect plastic fuel line "quick" disconnects.
-Every bike with an in-tank fuel pump. Seems to have become universal over the past 25-years, but is a pain to deal with when something goes wrong. Guzzi's external fuel pumps were great!
I'm sure if I think on it, there are a lot more...
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The air filter on the Honda Deauville 650 require fairing removal in order to remove the tank in order to reach the filter.
Changing spark plugs or coils or adjusting the valves or reaching the carbs on a Suzuki GSX600F/750F (aka Katana in some markets) demand you to remove the seat, side panels, the complete fairing, mirrors and various brackets. 77 screws in total.
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I just read an old road test of the Norge, and discovered that in order to check the oil level, you must first undo 7 screws in order to remove the LHS lower fairing to reach the dipstick. What :shocked:
Do you have similar stories to share?
That's not true. I have a Norge, and to check the oil level using the dipstick, you simply open a small door secured by a special hand-unscrewed screw, allowing for a tool-free check. If anything, to refill the oil, it's a bit awkward to reach the inlet to fill with the oil bottle.
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That's not true. I have a Norge, and to check the oil level using the dipstick, you simply open a small door secured by a special hand-unscrewed screw, allowing for a tool-free check. If anything, to refill the oil, it's a bit awkward to reach the inlet to fill with the oil bottle.
What year is your bike? The test I read was from 2006, perhaps Guzzi changed the design later? Or maybe the tester was unaware that there was a simpler way to check the oil level.
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They did change it.
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I just read an old road test of the Norge, and discovered that in order to check the oil level, you must first undo 7 screws in order to remove the LHS lower fairing to reach the dipstick. What :shocked:
Do you have similar stories to share?
That is very true. I had a 2007 4v Norge--and the only way to get to the dipstick was to remove the lower fairing, starting on the starboard side and removing three pieces of fairing to reach the dipstick. People created grabber tools to be able to grab the end of the dipstick, unscrew it, and pull it out. Later versions had a small door in the port fairing.
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Unable to change belt on Harley without unbolting swingarm!! Victory fixed that with proper design. easily changed on side of the road if needed.
Harley still after untold years still unscrews oil filter and hot oil spills over wiring of sensitive charging electronics.... I was happy to have mine underneath or at the rear of early evo's motor... That worked too well.
NORGE has too many fiddly layers to get thru to access parts that require maintenance!!! Why I am more and more in like with my 03 EV everyday!
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The first Norge was built without an easy way to check the oil level. Then MG drilled a large hole in the left side fairing that used the same big rubber plug used to seal the hole in the front belt cover. This allowed easy access to the dipstick. But when it came time to add oil it was still a pain. Back when I had my 2007 Norge I used a 2 gallon pump up weed sprayer to add oil. Worked great and it allowed me to fill the bike with fresh oil during the oil change, with a precise amount of oil. On that bike, any amount of oil above halfway on the dipstick would find its way into the air box.
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NORGE has too many fiddly layers to get thru to access parts that require maintenance!!! Why I am more and more in like with my 03 EV everyday!
I totally agree with SemperVee, maintaining the 03 EV is like working on an old Ford tractor, simple and most things with the exception of the fuel tank gas line connection are easily accomplished. The 07 Norge with dip stick extension isn’t that bad but removing the Tupperware is a pain, removing and replacing the air box has to be one of my least favorite tasks.
But on a day ride through hills and twisties on the Norge continues to bring huge smiles.
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But on a day ride through hills and twisties on the Norge continues to bring huge smiles.
Having never ridden a Norge, I can only relate to the test reports I have read. And a common tune of complaints is an apparent severe lack of cornering clearance, restricted by the dragging center stand on both sides, left side being the worst offender by far.
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Baloney.
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Having never ridden a Norge, I can only relate to the test reports I have read. And a common tune of complaints is an apparent severe lack of cornering clearance, restricted by the dragging center stand on both sides, left side being the worst offender by far.
My red Norge has lowered footpegs which doesn't allow the center stand to come up as far. I have bumped it a few times. The silver Norge is stock in that department, and the only time I bumped it I was experimenting with how fast I could take a hairpin turn. Not likely to try that again :violent1:
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Having never ridden a Norge, I can only relate to the test reports I have read. And a common tune of complaints is an apparent severe lack of cornering clearance, restricted by the dragging center stand on both sides, left side being the worst offender by far.
Utter garbage…
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Having never ridden a Norge, I can only relate to the test reports I have read. And a common tune of complaints is an apparent severe lack of cornering clearance, restricted by the dragging center stand on both sides, left side being the worst offender by far.
Maybe on a racetrack, but when I tested a Norge in Colorado (at a very spirited pace), nothing touched down.
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I totally agree with SemperVee, maintaining the 03 EV is like working on an old Ford tractor, simple and most things with the exception of the fuel tank gas line connection are easily accomplished. The 07 Norge with dip stick extension isn’t that bad but removing the Tupperware is a pain, removing and replacing the air box has to be one of my least favorite tasks.
But on a day ride through hills and twisties on the Norge continues to bring huge smiles.
YES! Why I still put up with VroomHilda's wicked ways as she seduces me with such a comfortable perch and so much fun on the twisties - Why I put up with her excesses of expended energy and grumbling to reach her most secret and guarded interior places.. :grin:
(https://i.ibb.co/ZpxtGnHF/LH-side-no-skirts-bags-and-Red-Seat-copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZpxtGnHF)
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Do you have similar stories to share?
Oh, I don't know. I'm still scarred from bleeding the I-abs servo system on my old BMW K1200gt. SIX! (count em...6!) bleed valve nipples on the servo itself, plus one more in a line junction, plus the usual one on each brake caliper for a total of 10!
If that doesn't confirm the old German Engineering adage of "Why use just one part when 37 will do!" I don't know what does. :shocked:
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Tonti's-revenge airbox, found on many (all?) Tonti models. My Cal 2 airbox was absolutely impossible to re-install, probably one of the main reasons riders switched to pods. I got tired of the noise of the pods and wanted to switch back to the quiet stock airbox, but quit after an hour of rage/hysterical laughing at such a ridiculous design.
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The air filter on the Honda Deauville 650 require fairing removal in order to remove the tank in order to reach the filter.
Changing spark plugs or coils or adjusting the valves or reaching the carbs on a Suzuki GSX600F/750F (aka Katana in some markets) demand you to remove the seat, side panels, the complete fairing, mirrors and various brackets. 77 screws in total.
Sounds like a great application for some magnets and/or velcro.
"77 screws" reminded me of a Kevin Cameron column talking about splitting engine cases as an indicator of engineering philosophy. He said the Japanese bikes used all 6 mm bolts, while the Italians used a combination of 5mm, 5.5mm, and 6mm bolts.
I wonder how many of the 77 screws could be replaced by magnets and/or velcro?
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Oh, I don't know. I'm still scarred from bleeding the I-abs servo system on my old BMW K1200gt. SIX! (count em...6!) bleed valve nipples on the servo itself, plus one more in a line junction, plus the usual one on each brake caliper for a total of 10!
If that doesn't confirm the old German Engineering adage of "Why use just one part when 37 will do!" I don't know what does. :shocked:
SIX Nipples!!!
IIRC, milking machines can only access 5 nipples simultaneously...
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Hamlin sold a lot of the Norge motorcycles. I assisted him many times on suspension work on those bikes, including my own. More often then not there were wear marks on the left side where the stand is. The early bikes came with what many considered a too soft spring. We changed quite a few and installed more aftermarket shocks on a good number of Norge bikes.
I ground my stock 2014 sidestand down quite a bit prior to a shock change.
I cannot recall when the spring rate was revised from the factory but it was sometime after 2014. It was an improvement.
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Hamlin sold a lot of the Norge motorcycles. I assisted him many times on suspension work on those bikes, including my own. More often then not there were wear marks on the left side where the stand is. The early bikes came with what many considered a too soft spring. We changed quite a few and installed more aftermarket shocks on a good number of Norge bikes.
I ground my stock 2014 sidestand down quite a bit prior to a shock change.
I cannot recall when the spring rate was revised from the factory but it was sometime after 2014. It was an improvement.
That relates perfectly with the articles I read. If someone would like to read than and reads German, or want to google-translate, I can post the links.
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Obviously rectified on later models but, having to remove the sump to change the oil filter on my LM2 was really odd.
I have now fitted a sump with external filter but, even back in the '70s, who dreamt that one up?
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While time-consuming, a real PITA and with a real chance of someone stripping threads in the crankcase by over-tightening the oil pan bolts, there really is a sensible reason for this; you can both inspect the bottom of the oil pan for things not supposed to be there AND you can - and should - clean it out before refitting.
Now, being lazy, I very much prefer a drain bolt over oil pan removal and accept the lack of inspection and cleaning. Another danger with such an elaborate system is that quite a few will be tempted to prolong oil filter changes.
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i've got a morini dart , looks like a tiny ducati paso ,
(https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/474x333/c/a/5981cd11ecebf0e6780264a4bf17855936c8c3545717dc673975ad3263decb/OIP.IgFQsOdXl8ePILjLmdlH0gHaFN.jpg?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse.mm.bing.net%2Fth%2Fid%2FOIP.IgFQsOdXl8ePILjLmdlH0gHaFN%3Fpid%3DApi&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=0)
it is basically a 125 cagiva 2 stroke chassis where they managed to shoehorn a 350 morini engine in.
as the chassis was meant for a two stroke it does not have easy access to the engine.
to check the oil level you have to completely remove the fairing.
typical of italians ,
build beautiful things, but practicality not at the top of the priority list.
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Oh, I don't know. I'm still scarred from bleeding the I-abs servo system on my old BMW K1200gt. SIX! (count em...6!) bleed valve nipples on the servo itself, plus one more in a line junction, plus the usual one on each brake caliper for a total of 10!
If that doesn't confirm the old German Engineering adage of "Why use just one part when 37 will do!" I don't know what does. :shocked:
You must have the old ABSII brake system, like my 2002 K1200RS, worse ABS system ever designed....it's a freaking horror show for sure....LOL!
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i've got a morini dart , looks like a tiny ducati paso ,
(https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/474x333/c/a/5981cd11ecebf0e6780264a4bf17855936c8c3545717dc673975ad3263decb/OIP.IgFQsOdXl8ePILjLmdlH0gHaFN.jpg?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse.mm.bing.net%2Fth%2Fid%2FOIP.IgFQsOdXl8ePILjLmdlH0gHaFN%3Fpid%3DApi&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=0)
it is basically a 125 cagiva 2 stroke chassis where they managed to shoehorn a 350 morini engine in.
as the chassis was meant for a two stroke it does not have easy access to the engine.
to check the oil level you have to completely remove the fairing.
typical of italians ,
build beautiful things, but practicality not at the top of the priority list.
I have a Ducati Paso 907ie, and yeah, removing the body work to do anything takes about a half hour if you're careful about it. Anytime Desmo service comes up on one of my bikes I pay a shop to do it. It's ranged from 2.5hr to 6hr services. Modernish Ducatis in general are not very end user mechanic friendly, even for the Scrambler Icon 800 I owned they don't officially publish a workshop manual which was a factor in me deciding to not buy another new Ducati when the DesertX came out. That said, I replaced the clutch on my Ducati Scrambler in the garden of my apartment at the time in under an hour... watching a video of someone replacing the clutch on a Moto Guzzi V7 and I hope mine never wears out!
It's amazing how many bikes have overly difficult valve service though, take the new Royal Enfield Himalayan 450 for example, you have to pull one of the cams to adjust valve clearances. Absolute nightmare compared to something that was simple on the 411 predecessor.
A notoriously stupid design from HONDA of all brands is on the modern Cub engines up until a few years ago, the 110cc and 125cc from the early 2000s up until ~2022 depending on the model had the oil drain plug on the engine just opposite a bolt with the same head size that held the hydraulic cam chain tensioner plunger up in the engine. Come the first oil change, many people pull the wrong bolt and accidentally drop the plunger out the bottom of the engine and lose the spring inside the left hand crankcase cover which requires pulling the flywheel to retrieve it... for the latest Euro5+ engine Honda changed that plunger bolt to a button head allen/hex bolt to avoid the common mix up.
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I've heard the engine needs to come out to replace a Goldwing alternator.
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I've heard the engine needs to come out to replace a Goldwing alternator.
I think that was true on the 1100s. The 1800 alternator can be removed without removing the engine. Just takes a bit of fiddling with one of the nuts. BTDT
Pete
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It isn’t just stupid designs but needlessly cumbersome assembly procedures to enhance profitability…..
For many years (and maybe they still do it?), HD installed rear axles in such a manner that the exhaust had to be removed in order to remove the axle to service the rear wheel. This required additional labor hours at the dealership, especially if there were problems with the exhaust and how it was removed. A formal dealership would keep all these parts in such a configuration to boost service profit margins on return visits.
Being a regular & honest non-dealership shop, we would remove the exhaust to remove the axle on the first relevant service. Then we would install the axle from the opposite side and put the nut end on the exhaust side. Simple remedy.
From that point, the labor to do a tire, rear brakes, etc was significantly reduced.
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A formal dealership would keep all these parts in such a configuration to boost service profit margins on return visits.
What's a formal dealership?
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What's a formal dealership?
formal = former ? ?
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I've heard the engine needs to come out to replace a Goldwing alternator.
That was true for the GL1000/1100/1200. Also for the CX500/650. The same is true for the TCI pickups - engine out. Changing the clutch on a GL1800 is also eye-watering costly, although the engine must not come out - it is just a PITA to get at.
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It isn’t just stupid designs but needlessly cumbersome assembly procedures to enhance profitability…..
For many years (and maybe they still do it?), HD installed rear axles in such a manner that the exhaust had to be removed in order to remove the axle to service the rear wheel. This required additional labor hours at the dealership, especially if there were problems with the exhaust and how it was removed. A formal dealership would keep all these parts in such a configuration to boost service profit margins on return visits.
Reminds me of the Yamaha XS750/850/1100 standard models that came with an adjustable cable with hooks at both ends. Owners could use the cable to compress the suspension enough to get the rear wheel axle out above the muffler.
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I have a Ducati Paso 907ie, and yeah, removing the body work to do anything takes about a half hour if you're careful about it. Anytime Desmo service comes up on one of my bikes I pay a shop to do it. It's ranged from 2.5hr to 6hr services. Modernish Ducatis in general are not very end user mechanic friendly, even for the Scrambler Icon 800 I owned they don't officially publish a workshop manual which was a factor in me deciding to not buy another new Ducati when the DesertX came out. That said, I replaced the clutch on my Ducati Scrambler in the garden of my apartment at the time in under an hour... watching a video of someone replacing the clutch on a Moto Guzzi V7 and I hope mine never wears out!
my cagiva 900 elefant needs the engine dropped to adjust the exhaust valve of the vertical cylinder.
i commuted for some time on the elefant , but dropping the engine every 8000 km gets old if you ride 35.000 km/year
I actually hate desmo valves,
everybody else knows how to use valve springs by now, the only reason for ducati to keep using desmo is marketing
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"If that doesn't confirm the old German Engineering adage of "Why use just one part when 37 will do!" I don't know what does."
They've improved!!! In my Porsche 911 they got it down to only using 5-6 parts to do the job of one! ;)
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Quote from: MikeP996 on Today at 09:42:50 AM (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=124316.msg1913536#msg1913536)"If that doesn't confirm the old German Engineering adage of "Why use just one part when 37 will do!" I don't know what does."
They've improved!!! In my Porsche 911 they got it down to only using 5-6 parts to do the job of one! ;)
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And the opposite of French, at least Citroen, engineering where, why use 5 or even 4 wheelnuts when 3 will do...
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Airhead BMWs had a throttle mechanism that has to be seen to believe. The throttle handle tube has a bevel gear on the end. This gear meshed with another that was on the end of a cam. A pair of small chains were wound around the cam, this would allow the throttle to increase incrementally as the handgrip was turned. The chains were attached to a small block to which a cable going to each carb was attached. The throttle on the two I owned was fairly stiff. Absolutely much more complicated that it needed to be. No wonder BMW's are so damn expensive.
kk
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What's a formal dealership?
The male employees have to wear tuxedos!
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Having never ridden a Norge, I can only relate to the test reports I have read. And a common tune of complaints is an apparent severe lack of cornering clearance, restricted by the dragging center stand on both sides, left side being the worst offender by far.
Fake news unless you are aping a Moto GP rider.
The 8V Norge has an access door to check oil, and unscrewing the dipstick bung makes
adding oil much easier. The 8v also had revised bodywork and suspension to go along
with the new motor.
Overall, the Norge is fantastic motorcycle.. Easy to ride, sweet disposition,
Competent handler, rock solid high speed sport touring bike and mile muncher.
It can be a bit top heavy with a full tank of gas, and riders benefit from a seat buildup to help relieve knees, but I plan to own one as long as I can ride.
I foolishly traded my 2014 in 2019 for the flying fortress MGX 21. I sold that fat pig in 6 months and picked up a 1200 Sport but still missed the Norge. I got a great deal on a 2012 back in April and proceeded to do a 3,000 mile fly and ride.
I spent the next 6 months going over the bike top to bottom cleaning fixing upgrading. A couple weeks ago I decided to take it out for a 375 to 400 mi and jaunt with a couple local V85 riders through West Virginia Maryland and Pennsylvania. It usually takes me a couple miles to reorient to a bike if I haven't been on it in a while but it was immediately familiar and comfortable and I loved every second of it.
(https://i.ibb.co/fVfDvhw8/IMG-20251104-130110003-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fVfDvhw8)
(https://i.ibb.co/zWBKHVXg/IMG-20251104-170339045-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zWBKHVXg)
(https://i.ibb.co/R4GMyh0y/IMG-20251104-170308806-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R4GMyh0y)
(https://i.ibb.co/BVWdJZcn/IMG-20251104-112641597-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BVWdJZcn)