Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: faffi on November 21, 2025, 08:21:01 AM
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Lately, I have had a desire for a BMW K100RS or RT. Which is strange, because I am no fan of inline fours. For one reason only; how they sound. Well, there is the often annoying buzzy vibrations as well that affect many I4s. But the BMW unit is less "foury" than most, so I can live with the sound. And some are smooth, others are buzzy. Product tolerances. The flexibility of a four is far better than that of a twin, which functionally is good, and the primary reason for me to consider one.
Other good things about the K100 versions; light weight for a fully faired motorcycle with shaft final drive, reliable, generally simple to maintain, good fairing protection, fairly roomy riding position, decent cornering clearance. The only similar bike I can think of that is lighter is the Honda Deauville. The Norge is heavier and, I fear, lacking cornering clearance, but still not out of the picture.
So, are there other alternatives out there? I can live with chain drive, but I do not want a sport tourer in the modern sense like the Yamaha Tracer GT, not a heavy lump like a Pan European.
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2013-2017 Honda CB1100’s. Affordable. Beyond reliable. Easily accessorized. Buzzing in the bars can be mitigated a number of ways.
Attached pictures take a minute to load.
(https://i.ibb.co/7tYgVjPb/IMG-9524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7tYgVjPb)
(https://i.ibb.co/S4hmCSnL/IMG-4193.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S4hmCSnL)
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The only four I've ever considered is a Ducati Panigale. I've ridden a couple of K bikes and just thought they were boring compared to a twin and the Panigale sounds like a hyper twin but there is the cost, even in the used column. IMO I'd buy a late model Mandelo S but technically that falls into the Sport Touring category but so does the Norge.
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1987 K100RS
(https://i.ibb.co/q33Rr5Rd/lh-k100.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q33Rr5Rd)
Hot as hell in the summer especially when fans kick in during traffic.
Water and oil pump share a common shaft and as it wears coolant gets in oil.
Taller saddle doesn't accommodate 30" inseam.
Stopping on uphill requires thought to avoid rolling backward and falling down.
Smokes at start when on sidestand.
Nobody waves at you on this oddity (not even BMW).
That's all I got.
Loved the smooth as silk engine and low noise level.
Loved the German precision.
Loved the tubeless tires and single side swingarm.
Loved that you could get all the way into flywheel while on centerstand.
Loved that valves stayed in adjustment for a long time.
Loved digital gear indicator.
Loved self canceling turn signals.
Loved the strong & positive brakes.
Hope that helps talk you out of the purchase. :grin:
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A friend and I traded bikes at the Parry Sound Sportbike rally some years ago. Me on my 850LM and he and his K100RS. RS had a bit more power than my Lemans but handling was much slower and heavier. Found it to be pretty boring overall and would never consider buying one. Same for a K75. Might be reliable and maybe comfortable touring bikes but loose too many points as a sport bike.
Pete
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The sound of a Flying Brick running through the gears has been aptly described as the sound of ripping cloth. Look for a pre 2004 K1200RS. The engine is rubber mounted and smooth as glass. I loved the K1200 series enough to own two of them in the past. Both were the GT models. Smooth, cruise control, electric windshield, shaft drive. The seating position is a bit to sporting for some but didn't bother me. I reluctantly decided to sell my last one, as they are a bit heavy, and I was tired of dealing with the overly complex (and failure prone) servo-abs bleeding every two years. Hence my recommendation to look for one that pre-dates that particular "improvement." 130 hp at the crank, so plenty of steam, although a heavy flywheel makes it slow to rev compared to any Japanese bike. I could ride mine all day, something I've never been able to say about any other 4-cylinder bike I've owned.
(https://i.ibb.co/6JGw3Jnj/Flying-Brick-on-the-Skyway.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6JGw3Jnj)
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I see that you are "stuck" on this idea that the Norge has clearance issues. It does not. There's no problem with clearance per se. There is indeed a soft rear spring that is easily remedied by either replacing the spring alone with a Hyperpro, or buying a full rear unit like a Wilbers. Couple that with some slightly stiffer Hyperpro front springs and 15 wt oil and you have a Sport tourer that is outstanding at canyon carving, tight curvers or sweepers and all day touring (with an upgraded seat...the stock one will kill your ass in an hour!)
I would ride 2 up on my Norge and on the stock spring I would scrape when really leaned over, but nothing egregious. If you're riding single, you really don't even need to replace the rear, but to be sure, it's far more sportier and tight with upgraded suspension, but I never worried at all about clearance issues even with the stock suspension setup.
Definitely need to get this idea out of your head that the Norge has clearance issues...
As far as inline BMW 4's...I see that some versions are smooth and others are indeed buzzy. I had a BMW K1100 LT for several years and could never find the source of the buzzing at 70 mph...above and below that is was indeed smooth as silk. About a 100 lbs heavier than the Norge however.
(https://i.ibb.co/VcskWjQ0/IMG-4751.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VcskWjQ0)
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2013-2017 Honda CB1100’s. Affordable. Beyond reliable. Easily accessorized. Buzzing in the bars can be mitigated a number of ways.
Attached pictures take a minute to load.
(https://i.ibb.co/7tYgVjPb/IMG-9524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7tYgVjPb)
(https://i.ibb.co/S4hmCSnL/IMG-4193.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S4hmCSnL)
I love the CB1100, but I need something with weather and chill protection - a 90F degree day here does not happen every year, and most places in Norway never. We call a night that does not drop below 68F tropical. Does not happen every year, either. Past week as seen temps between 20 and 25F. So more often than not, rides are chilly here. I do not like fairings in general, not for looks and they complicate maintenance. But they sure make chilly days easier on old limbs.
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The sound of a Flying Brick running through the gears has been aptly described as the sound of ripping cloth. Look for a pre 2004 K1200RS. The engine is rubber mounted and smooth as glass. I loved the K1200 series enough to own two of them in the past. Both were the GT models. Smooth, cruise control, electric windshield, shaft drive. The seating position is a bit to sporting for some but didn't bother me. I reluctantly decided to sell my last one, as they are a bit heavy, and I was tired of dealing with the overly complex (and failure prone) servo-abs bleeding every two years. Hence my recommendation to look for one that pre-dates that particular "improvement." 130 hp at the crank, so plenty of steam, although a heavy flywheel makes it slow to rev compared to any Japanese bike. I could ride mine all day, something I've never been able to say about any other 4-cylinder bike I've owned.
(https://i.ibb.co/6JGw3Jnj/Flying-Brick-on-the-Skyway.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6JGw3Jnj)
The K1200RS flying brick is 34 kg / 75 lbs heavier than the already heavier than I'd prefer K100RS. It also is too fast in that I would constantly be tempted to - and actually do - ride beyond what the law allows*, whereas the old K100 is "lame" enough that one does not use all the power just for the fun of it. And the 1200 is rather cumbersome on the hairpin littered roads I love to travel.
*Doing 72 in a 50 zone will cost me USD 1100 plus 3 months of walking. Doing 100 in a 50 zone will cost ten times as much and have me walking for more than 2 years.
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If you are looking at RT's you'll be looking at boxers and not I-4's, which is not a bad thing IMO as the boxer has a lot of benefits. I'm not sure what you mean by the I-4 having flexibility. My experience is the boxer is just as at home in the low speeds stuff as it is gliding down the road in triple digits or anything in between.
There was a K100RT, the LT was primarily made for the US market. By flexibility I mean the ability to accelerate fairly effortlessly from idle speed in top gear. Most of the I-4s I have owned would take full throttle from 1000 rpm in top gear and just accelerate, no vibrations, no protests, no pinging. I do not condone it - I was younger and more ignorant back then - but I cannot think of any twins similarly tuned doing the same thing. Basically, you can be lazy riding a four-cylinder, which is relaxing, but also rev it if you want some excitement.
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*Doing 72 in a 50 zone will cost me USD 1100 plus 3 months of walking. Doing 100 in a 50 zone will cost ten times as much and have me walking for more than 2 years.
With draconian speeding fines like that, perhaps a nice Vespa, then? :wink:
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I see that you are "stuck" on this idea that the Norge has clearance issues. It does not. There's no problem with clearance per se. There is indeed a soft rear spring that is easily remedied by either replacing the spring alone with a Hyperpro, or buying a full rear unit like a Wilbers. Couple that with some slightly stiffer Hyperpro front springs and 15 wt oil and you have a Sport tourer that is outstanding at canyon carving, tight curvers or sweepers and all day touring (with an upgraded seat...the stock one will kill your ass in an hour!)
I would ride 2 up on my Norge and on the stock spring I would scrape when really leaned over, but nothing egregious. If you're riding single, you really don't even need to replace the rear, but to be sure, it's far more sportier and tight with upgraded suspension, but I never worried at all about clearance issues even with the stock suspension setup.
Definitely need to get this idea out of your head that the Norge has clearance issues...
As far as inline BMW 4's...I see that some versions are smooth and others are indeed buzzy. I had a BMW K1100 LT for several years and could never find the source of the buzzing at 70 mph...above and below that is was indeed smooth as silk. About a 100 lbs heavier than the Norge however.
(https://i.ibb.co/VcskWjQ0/IMG-4751.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VcskWjQ0)
I have not ridden a Norge, but my brother have owned two R1200RTs, and both would scrape pegs regularly, meaning cornering clearance was adequate, but not excellent. The few tests I have read have described the cornering clearance of the Beemer R1200RT to be significantly better than that of the Norge. But you are right in that I should not condemn the Norge in this regard until I have ridden one.
The Norge wet weight is the same 617 lbs as that of the K1100RS and 22 lbs less than the K1100LT on an certified scale.
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I have not ridden a Norge, but my brother have owned two R1200RTs, and both would scrape pegs regularly, meaning cornering clearance was adequate, but not excellent. The few tests I have read have described the cornering clearance of the Beemer R1200RT to be significantly better than that of the Norge. But you are right in that I should not condemn the Norge in this regard until I have ridden one.
The Norge wet weight is the same 617 lbs as that of the K1100RS and 22 lbs less than the K1100LT on an certified scale.
I don't know what certified scale is being used, but the Norge dry weight around 550 lbs, let's add 5 gallons at approx 40 lbs more for fuel, nowhere close to the BMW which was in the 640 range, ok 50 lbs less, not 100 as I estimated above. I've rented RT's as well in the past and had no trouble leaning it over w/o scraping...but I have no lean angle measurement to compare against the Norge. Either way, as mentioned above, scraping is very easily resolved with an after market suspension setup...given the speed limits you have to deal with, I don't think you're going to be dealing with excessive lean angles either.
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With draconian speeding fines like that, perhaps a nice Vespa, then? :wink:
It is very rare that you will find a patrol out on the winding backroads where few or no people live, but I have been very lucky. I have only been fined twice, both times low fines for minor speeding; once in 1986 and once in 1992. If I think about all the times I would have gone to jail for speed if caught... :lipsrsealed:
I like roads like this. Average slope is 11%. And I have never seen police on this or similar roads. I filmed this 15 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU6AtJ6GHaM
This is my favorite road to ride briskly. I have never filmed it myself, but found one doing a slow sightseeing trip on a K1600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P2yHkpsxz4
Note: Speedos read in KPH. The first number visible on my old Triumph is 120 kph = 75 mph. The Beemer speedo reads in clear numbers.
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The more anyone tries to talk you out of it, the more you”ll want it.
You’ll ignore the facts and airbrush away the reality that is obvious, the bike you want is brutal, ugly, soulless, has all the charm of a wooden spoon and worst of all…?
It’s…GERMAN !
So just buy it, farkle it, look at it, ride it 2 or 3 times and then write us a nice post about how your Beemer brought you back to Guzzi.
The Beemer is Angela Merkel
The Guzzi is Isabella Rossellini
You won’t admit it, but you will miss the imperfection of the Italian affair. The BMW is a good tool for doing a “job”…
So is a toilet seat… :popcorn:
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I don't know what certified scale is being used, but the Norge weight around 550 lbs, nowhere close to 617!
The original Norge from 2006, with a full tank, was 275 kg / 606 lbs. The 2011 version was 11 lbs heavier. 550 lbs is probably about the correct dry weight, provided you removed every drop of fluid in the bike, but I always use wet weight for myself, which may be confusing. Sorry if that is the case here. BMW used to subtract around 20-30 lbs from the actual wet weight of their bikes. For instance, the old R100RS was actually 507 lbs wet, not the 474 claimed by the factory.
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I nearly bought a K, the one with the checkered flag in the fairing paint. Cool !
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The more anyone tries to talk you out of it, the more you”ll want it.
You’ll ignore the facts and airbrush away the reality that is obvious, the bike you want is brutal, ugly, soulless, has all the charm of a wooden spoon and worst of all…?
It’s…GERMAN !
So just buy it, farkle it, look at it, ride it 2 or 3 times and then write us a nice post about how your Beemer brought you back to Guzzi.
The Beemer is Angela Merkel
The Guzzi is Isabella Rossellini
You won’t admit it, but you will miss the imperfection of the Italian affair. The BMW is a good tool for doing a “job”…
So is a toilet seat… :popcorn:
Hey, I will not argue with anything of what you say, other than perhaps the Norqe being closer to BMW than any other Guzzi. However, those reasons listed is exactly why I consider it. Many moons ago, I owned a 1997 Triumph 900 Sprint, which was not unlike the BMW original K-bikes. It was very functional and competent, but also an appliance. I never turned to take a final glance at it after a ride, but as long as I sat behind the controls it was great. Not perfect in any way, nor did it do anything particularly well, but also nothing poorly. I expect a K100 to be similar. But on a cold and blustery day, it may be just the thing I need. Not unlike the Deauville. Or a Pan European.
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The R100RS and RT weights I'd always seen were right around 525 pounds.
Being able to accelerate in top gear from idle without a fuss requires lots of horsepower or an electric motorcycle - which seems right up your alley.
The K100 is a heater, so that's a plus for you. The K100RS I rode in Los Angeles in the summer darn near gave me heat stroke. But they're top heavy - at least compared to the airheads and tontis I ride.
Huzo - you have such a way with the language. :-)
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I love the way electric cars operate, being able to do everything with just one pedal - stopping as well as accelerating. The charging is still a PITA, though, with not enough range and long time required to charge up relatively speaking compared to fuel. My Skoda Octavia with a 150hp turbo petrol engine will deliver 50 mpg on long drives and safely go 600 miles on a tank, and it only takes a couple of minutes to "charge it" for another 600 miles.
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The R100RS and RT weights I'd always seen were right around 525 pounds.
Being able to accelerate in top gear from idle without a fuss requires lots of horsepower
Well that’s not strictly correct, power is torque x rpm.
So low rpm requires high torque to get the power figure.
100 Nm x 1000 rpm is the same power as 50 Nm x 2,000 rpm.
What you need to accelerate from idle in top gear is a motor that provides a goodly proportion of its peak torque at that lower rpm figure.
A heavier flywheel helps here, because it stores the energy by virtue of its rotational mass and dishes it out evenly.
But as usual I digress…
We are trying to talk our hero OUT of buying the Beemer. It’s a pig ignorant, heartless, arrogant truck on two wheels that is only good for carrying your groceries to the car and folding your washing.
It’s the sort of acquaintance that you have to get drunk to become enamoured with, but regrettably..?
You still have to wake up in the morning and it really does hurt if you try to gnaw your own arm off…
Then there’s the undeniable fact that you’ll need to put a bag over your head when you remove your helmet in public, so your mates won’t know it’s you with her.
I think the great Ace Ventura put it best when he said…
“You might be enjoying yourself….
But whatever you do, DON’T look down…”
How’m I doing..? :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Well, the last paragraph about enjoying electric cars is quite revealing then - it makes sense now if you're looking for the least amount of interaction with a machine and minimal driver input. If that's appealing I can see why a Guzzi may not be in the cards for you, or at least an older Guzzi. That's OK too.
930 Porsche Turbo vs. Tesla S - I know which one would produce the most fun driving and the most driver interaction even if you have to maintain it mechanically much more.
:thumb: :thumb:
It's a pity that a country as beautiful as Norway with unlimited gas reserves would be so restrictive on speed limits, but they are also I suppose one of if not the leading proponent of electric cars/buses etc.
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Why are you so concerned about weight?Arent you the guy that can lift large weights?Ifyou can onlylegally ride 75mph you will never notice the weights.I can easily handle a Norge and I’m 80.
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talk you out of it? OK. Buy a K75 instead like I did last year.
A really, really fine machine. It was too old man for me when I was 27. Not sure what happened since then
(https://i.ibb.co/bR6Cb8p7/IMG-1708-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bR6Cb8p7)
5000 sweet miles in 14 months.
Yes, it is hot when it's hot but great when it's cool.
When getting one, there are really 2 choices: fully sorted and a project. In between are few and far between. The projects are rarely that much of a project. The big need is a new fuel pump, crankcase breather tube, other rubber bits, and occasionally bad splines. They really are a bike that "ran when parked" means you can get it running again pretty easily and cheaply.
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It is very rare that you will find a patrol out on the winding backroads where few or no people live, but I have been very lucky. I have only been fined twice, both times low fines for minor speeding; once in 1986 and once in 1992. If I think about all the times I would have gone to jail for speed if caught... :lipsrsealed:.
Patrol cars? We don't need no stinkin Patrol Cars! Euro speed cameras are relentless! When I got home from my one-week motorcycle rental in Germany and Switzerland, I had two speeding tickets arrive in the mail almost before I could unpack! And I was REALLY trying to adhere to the constantly changing speed limits encountered the many small villages we rode through. Fortunately, they were relatively small fines, 50 euros each, give or take. :sad:
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Maybe this old story will help??? Been posted a few times. Maybe posted by Wirespokes:
BMWs are like the Hot German Scientist chick. Glasses, prim, mannered, efficient. She can solve quadratic equations while kicking your ass with kung-fu moves. You have to approach her on her terms and then she will bring you ecstasy in the most efficient manner possible using techniques she learned from an ancient Kama Sutra she discovered on a sabbatical in India.
Guzzis on the other hand, are the art school wild child. long, wind-tossed hair and mischievous winks. She will redecorate your house into a turkish harem while you are away on a business trip and greet you with absinthe tainted kisses. You will go out for pizza with her and wind up somewhere in the Mojave, tequila drunk and shooting cactus with a stolen pistol.
Tom
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Huzo, Reply 21 had me LMAO!!!!!!!!!
That is also known as coyote ugly. Gnaw your arm off before waking the fine filly you took home.
Tom
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What am I missing here? I just confirmed that your national MAXIMUM speed limit is 50 mph. Why would you want to own ANY bike that is big, heavy,
and powerful? Seems to me that 600 cc or less with good wind protection would be a helluva lot more enjoyable on your twisty roads than the bikes that
are mentioned in this thread. Of course, it you tour outside your country that is another discussion, but within the confines of your border and the
fine structure in place of exceeding 50 mph, I can't imagine why you would want to frustrate yourself with a big powerful machine you can't use.
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I liked my SP1000
(https://i.ibb.co/tTCYt1pF/IMG-1577.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tTCYt1pF)
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Or he'll buy it, ride it, enjoy it and it will lead him down another path.
He asked us to talk him out of it.
Really, they are just about the ugliest thing ever foisted onto the public, being seen on a BMW is is an admission that you’ll settle for bland mediocrity, but a flying brick is just beyond any semblance of acceptability.
If he does go ahead and relieve some poor soul of the horrible contraption, it’ll be fun watching the journey and witnessing what his reasons are for ultimately ditching it…
I hope he comes to his senses and leaves the thing to quietly rot like the Bismarck.
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Very entertaining!
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I dunno, ride what you like and like what you ride or change often, as I have…..
Blessed to be able to
inditx
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I’m only doing what I can to try and talk him out of it..
After all, that is what he asked…
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How’m I doing..? :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Getting better 😂
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I had a couple K bikes, both K75s. They gave me effortless miles at any speed I chose. I found them to be the perfect tool for long distances over flat land where they made me feel I was flying because of the lack of noise or vibration. When I took them to mountains or twisty roads, I missed the torque and handling (and sound, frankly) of my Guzzis. I had to shift the BMW more. Mine were unfaired, so heat was not a problem. The K bikes are top heavy in the garage or at low speed or uneven pavement. The exhaust whine reminded me of George Jetson's suitcase car. I like the design of the K bikes, but then again I like square cars. The early K bikes were about 10 years or so ahead of the market with the fuel injection, stainless exhaust, aluminium fuel tank, single sided swingarm, etc. Properly maintained, they will easily go 200K miles. The 1100s vibrate more than the 750s.
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Well that’s not strictly correct, power is torque x rpm.
So low rpm requires high torque to get the power figure.
100 Nm x 1000 rpm is the same power as 50 Nm x 2,000 rpm.
What you need to accelerate from idle in top gear is a motor that provides a goodly proportion of its peak torque at that lower rpm figure.
A heavier flywheel helps here, because it stores the energy by virtue of its rotational mass and dishes it out evenly.
In my experience, what you need the most is several closely spaced combustion cycles. Open the throttle fully in top gear at 1000 rom on a Guzzi Le Mans on level ground, and you will feel the abuse. Do the same on a Suzuki GSX400F, and you will not accelerate briskly, (well, hardly at all) but the engine will not protest through harsh vibrations. A Honda CBX six or a KZ1300 of K1600 will be even less bothered with high loads at low rpm. But of course, the milder the tune, the happier any engine will be at low rpm.
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I've had a love affair with my German mistress for a tick over 38 years. Smooth, comfortable and can get me in trouble if I choose poorly.
Simple maintenance, tires, oil and filters, brake pads, antifreeze flush and fill and a bottle of techron every third fillup. Cruise control,self-cancelling signals and a BMW solo seat if I'm going to do some spirited twisties. when I've been to bike nights I'm always impressed with the amount of attention she gets. Go for the K75s and you won't be disappointed.
(https://i.ibb.co/HJHgjnk/20180928-115953.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HJHgjnk)
Paul B :boozing:
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Why are you so concerned about weight?Arent you the guy that can lift large weights?Ifyou can onlylegally ride 75mph you will never notice the weights.I can easily handle a Norge and I’m 80.
Primarily because my hands and shoulders are worn down from arthritis. I can lift as before, but I cannot push nearly as much. Also, my shed is crowded, the floor sits 4 inches below street level and the door is narrow. But also because weight is detrimental to handling, acceleration, stopping distance and pushing the bike around. It is MUCH more fun to hustle a lightweight motorcycle along a gnarly, winding road that it is to steer a Gold Wing.
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talk you out of it? OK. Buy a K75 instead like I did last year.
A really, really fine machine. It was too old man for me when I was 27. Not sure what happened since then
(https://i.ibb.co/bR6Cb8p7/IMG-1708-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bR6Cb8p7)
5000 sweet miles in 14 months.
Yes, it is hot when it's hot but great when it's cool.
When getting one, there are really 2 choices: fully sorted and a project. In between are few and far between. The prpjects are rarely that much of a project. The big need is a new fuel pump, crankcase breather tube, other rubber bits, and occasionally bad splines. They really are a bike that "ran when parked" means you can get it running again pretty easily and cheaply.
Yes, the 75 is an option. Smoother engine, nicer sound, around 40 lbs less, give or take. The K75S is the best handling - and arguably best looking - bike of the old K-series, but the fairing does not give a lot of protection.
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I liked my SP1000
(https://i.ibb.co/tTCYt1pF/IMG-1577.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tTCYt1pF)
How is the SP1000 compared to the EV1100?
I have ridden a V7 from 1971, a 1986 Lario, a Cali II, a Cali III and an EV, and did not like any of them other than partially the EV. The EV had the worst riding position I have ever entertained, and it was difficult to get the gearbox from neutral and into either first or 2nd gear. However, it handled like I expect a motorcycle to handle, so with normal pegs and normal riding position I could easily have enjoyed the EV, despite the big dip in torque around 5000 rpm, which probably stemmed from the exhaust system.
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Patrol cars? We don't need no stinkin Patrol Cars! Euro speed cameras are relentless! When I got home from my one-week motorcycle rental in Germany and Switzerland, I had two speeding tickets arrive in the mail almost before I could unpack! And I was REALLY trying to adhere to the constantly changing speed limits encountered the many small villages we rode through. Fortunately, they were relatively small fines, 50 euros each, give or take. :sad:
In Norway, you only find speed cameras on the main roads. And they are marked with a signpost well ahead, giving you time to slow down. Plus they show up on the GPS and Google maps.
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What am I missing here? I just confirmed that your national MAXIMUM speed limit is 50 mph. Why would you want to own ANY bike that is big, heavy,
and powerful? Seems to me that 600 cc or less with good wind protection would be a helluva lot more enjoyable on your twisty roads than the bikes that
are mentioned in this thread. Of course, it you tour outside your country that is another discussion, but within the confines of your border and the
fine structure in place of exceeding 50 mph, I can't imagine why you would want to frustrate yourself with a big powerful machine you can't use.
I want good weather protection and an engine that does not need constant shifting in the mountains just to be able to climb the inclines.
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I had a couple K bikes, both K75s. They gave me effortless miles at any speed I chose. I found them to be the perfect tool for long distances over flat land where they made me feel I was flying because of the lack of noise or vibration. When I took them to mountains or twisty roads, I missed the torque and handling (and sound, frankly) of my Guzzis. I had to shift the BMW more. Mine were unfaired, so heat was not a problem. The K bikes are top heavy in the garage or at low speed or uneven pavement. The exhaust whine reminded me of George Jetson's suitcase car. I like the design of the K bikes, but then again I like square cars. The early K bikes were about 10 years or so ahead of the market with the fuel injection, stainless exhaust, aluminium fuel tank, single sided swingarm, etc. Properly maintained, they will easily go 200K miles. The 1100s vibrate more than the 750s.
There is no doubt the BMW is more like a tool, while the Guzzi speak also to the emotions. Functionally, which one is best will depend on what the rider is looking for more than anything, as both will get most jobs done well.
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I've had a love affair with my German mistress for a tick over 38 years. Smooth, comfortable and can get me in trouble if I choose poorly.
Simple maintenance, tires, oil and filters, brake pads, antifreeze flush and fill and a bottle of techron every third fillup. Cruise control,self-cancelling signals and a BMW solo seat if I'm going to do some spirited twisties. when I've been to bike nights I'm always impressed with the amount of attention she gets. Go for the K75s and you won't be disappointed.
(https://i.ibb.co/HJHgjnk/20180928-115953.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HJHgjnk)
Paul B :boozing:
Just re-read the road test by Cycle magazine of the K75S back when it was new. They wrote that it was clearly the most sporting and well-handling BMW.
How would you describe the weather protection of you S?
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In the rain, your gloves are not protected and the lowest part of your shin and boots will get wet. The fairing directs 80-90 percent over your helmet
as it has an opening in the lower front to help direct air up and behind the screen. All can be dealt with wearing proper gear. Also, the heat that's
been mentioned is only noticeable on the right leg in the hottest parts of the year. I lived in Phoenix and rode her to work every day for 25 years,
only in the summer did i have to readjust my right leg position in slow or stopped traffic. One major improvement in handling I made was to install a Works Performance rear shock.
Paul B :boozing:
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I want good weather protection and an engine that does not need constant shifting in the mountains just to be able to climb the inclines.
Imagine a Norge in Norge...oh the irony!
Well, if the criteria of not wanting to shift is in the cards, perhaps a Honda Africa Twin DCT would be in order as the Goldwing is too large a bike I imagine?
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@PJPR01: Gold Wing is much too big, a bike not built for Norwegian roads, great as the bike may be.
I am not against shifting gears, I dislike engines that due to narrow power-bands and/or useful rev range demand constant shifting. Shifting can be fun, like riding a 250 on a narrow, winding road. For a while. Then it - for me - become tedious.
I have ridden Honda DCT and really disliked it, just like I dislike the DCT version of my Skoda, because the gearbox and I often disagree on what should happen next. Which is why I chose a manual in my car. The small 1.4 liter turbo inline four in my Octavia is happy from 40 mph upwards in 6th gear on level ground, and above 55 there is hardly a situation that demand a downshift this side of rapid passing. That is the kind of flexibility I like.
Oh, and you do see the odd Norge in Norge, although Guzzi have never been a major player in the Norwegian market.
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The only four I've ever considered is a Ducati Panigale. I've ridden a couple of K bikes and just thought they were boring compared to a twin and the Panigale sounds like a hyper twin but there is the cost, even in the used column. IMO I'd buy a late model Mandelo S but technically that falls into the Sport Touring category but so does the Norge.
The thing that would put me off the Panigale Tom (faffi did ask for talking him out of it) is the maintenance of it. I gather it is a very nice bike but owning a Guzzi hammers home the ease of maintenance of it, and the lack of ease of the Ducati multis. The cost of the Ducati dealer doing it is eye watering.
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Huzo - you have such a way with the language. :-)
If you think his writing is impressive, you should hear him speak!
Not exactly the King's English, but he does get his point across...
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Maybe this old story will help??? Been posted a few times. Maybe posted by Wirespokes:
BMWs are like the Hot German Scientist chick. Glasses, prim, mannered, efficient. She can solve quadratic equations while kicking your ass with kung-fu moves. You have to approach her on her terms and then she will bring you ecstasy in the most efficient manner possible using techniques she learned from an ancient Kama Sutra she discovered on a sabbatical in India.
Guzzis on the other hand, are the art school wild child. long, wind-tossed hair and mischievous winks. She will redecorate your house into a turkish harem while you are away on a business trip and greet you with absinthe tainted kisses. You will go out for pizza with her and wind up somewhere in the Mojave, tequila drunk and shooting cactus with a stolen pistol.
Tom
Oddly enough, I always looked at bikes and women as two different things.
Although I do remember some weird dreams about wether a women was a two stroke, a four stroke, a twin cylinder, or a three cylinder....
I never seemed to resolve any of those questions....
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I've always felt that forums like this were meant to be populated with enablers.
So buy one! You know you want to! :evil: :thumb: :grin: Do it NOW before you change your mind!
I have a K75S. The K 75 and K100 share many, many components,
and the flaws and strengths are mostly similar.
Plusses: The engine is magnificent. Smooth, torquey, robust, easy
to work on for the most part, and it has a reputation for lasting
nearly forever. The bike handles well, although it steers a wee bit slowly
by modern standards. Stable at speed, brakes are good, but not great.
The bike really begins to make sense at 70 - 80+, especially on what the Brits
might refer to as, 'A' roads. Lovely on the Interstate at that speed.
Many maintenance parts are interchangeable with car parts, and the
engine really doesn't care much what oil is used. Work on it yourself, and
they are fairly inexpensive to keep on the road. Lots of information online.
Minuses: Corbin seat not the most comfortable for me, but then it ain't
a BMW part. Electrics can be problematic. The starting circuit is a complicated
Rube Goldberg affair, for instance. Some of the plugs and wiring
are not of the highest quality, but there are workarounds.
-Stretch
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Imagine a Norge in Norge...oh the irony!
Ok, I will…
(https://i.ibb.co/LDhg1tfx/IMG-5133.png) (https://ibb.co/LDhg1tfx)
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Ok, I will…
(https://i.ibb.co/LDhg1tfx/IMG-5133.png) (https://ibb.co/LDhg1tfx)
Pity the bike's in Denmark when the picture was taken :boozing:
This was taken in Norway
(https://i.ibb.co/DD50KJZ2/3102919.webp) (https://ibb.co/DD50KJZ2)
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I remembered that I have a comparison test of the SP III and R100RT from 1989 in my archive. The natural thing was of course to read it. And while test reports have limited value, it does give an indication. And the test reminded me of why I did not enjoy riding "traditional" Guzzis, for lack of a better word. The EV is the first Guzzi I rode that felt like a normal motorcycle, as do my V9. At least for someone having grown up around Japanese motorcycles.
Dislikes of the SP III (for me)
- Speedo with 30 kph steps hard to read
- Dim idiot lights
- Engine slow to rev up and slow down
- Substantial engine vibrations
- Harsh suspension (can of course be fixed, but the limited rear wheel travel will always be problematic)
- Linked brakes
- Slow steering, with the resulting disdain for hairpins
- Heavy steering
- Engine lacking low-end grunt
- Noisy turbulence behind the fairing (same for the BMW RT, be that R100 or K100, can be fixed with different screen and spoiler)
There is also the lack of load capacity (only 172kg / 379 lbs) that will prevent two-up riding for many (I only ride solo, so no concern for me). Wet weight is just below that of the K100RT at 268 kg / 591 lbs.
Apart from the turbulence behind the screen, which affected the R100RT even more, weather protection was said to be good. Saddlebags from Givi make the bike very wide indeed.
While I am no fan of the SP III's look, it is no better or worse than the K100RT, meaning I could live with it. The SP-NT / SP I / SP II looks much better to me, but the rest of the bike does not tempt me. It would be cool to see Guzzi produce a V7 850 SP, but I doubt it will happen; the medium-sized touring bike have gone distinct, meaning sales would likely be slow and low. Even sports tourers have changed quite a bit, where styling is more important than wind and weather protection.
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The thing that would put me off the Panigale Tom (faffi did ask for talking him out of it) is the maintenance of it. I gather it is a very nice bike but owning a Guzzi hammers home the ease of maintenance of it, and the lack of ease of the Ducati multis. The cost of the Ducati dealer doing it is eye watering.
I believe that the valve adjustment is around 15,000 miles on those bikes, but what an engine. And if you're going to spend that kind of money on those bikes, what's a little high maintenance cost every.....5+ years? Realistically, I'd probably not put a lot of miles on that bike, just the way I don't put a lot of miles on the Daytona.
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Pity the bike's in Denmark when the picture was taken :boozing:
This was taken in Norway
(https://i.ibb.co/DD50KJZ2/3102919.webp) (https://ibb.co/DD50KJZ2)
So was this..
(https://i.ibb.co/jZD5fbSS/IMG-0249.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jZD5fbSS)
(https://i.ibb.co/DHCqcjJc/IMG-0264.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DHCqcjJc)
(https://i.ibb.co/bRCGz6Dr/IMG-0270.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bRCGz6Dr)
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Erik,
Just buy it. Life is short!
Might as well buy a DR650 also.
You can thank me later.
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This screams BMW R1200RT. Excellent weather/wind protection and the big boxer is happy chunking it into 3rd or 4th gear and rolling on/off the throttle with the bonus of very good handling.
When I had my DL650 riding the mountains was continuous shifting to keep it in the power. Go into a turn and it was downshift 5, 4, 3, and sometime 2 then coming out of the turn it was upshift 2, 3, 4, 5. When I got my 1st R1200GS on the same roads it was 3rd gear and roll on/off the throttle and leave the shifter alone. The big twin has gobs of torque to power out of turns.
FWIW, the DL650 won the inaugural Alpenmaster in 2005, and followed it up by taking the title again the following year. In 2005, the Suzuki narrowly beat the R1200RT and CB1300, with testers especially praising the engine of the V-Strom. The BMW was said to vibrate a bit too much, and the gearbox slipped out of 2nd gear every now and then. Plus the weight was considered a handicap of the RT as well as the Honda when moving them around or riding very slowly.
However, there is no doubt that the R1200RT is closer to what I am looking for than the DL650. But it is a complex bike, and there are many tales of costly repairs floating around. Come to think of it, my brother is on his second R1200RT now. it may be a good idea to ask for a test ride - if he has not sold it already (he changes bikes constantly).
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at some point a ran a K100 for commuting , but usually ended up taking the le mans 2 instead.
in comparison the K100 is boring, completely emotionless.
so got rid of it , and used te le mans for commuting instead.
still i would be tempted by a BMW K1, still boring to ride, but at least interesting to look at.
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I agree that the K100 is not an exciting motorcycle, but for my intended purpose that is a benefit. I will keep one of my "emotional" bikes to accompanying it.
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I just read the long term test of the K75, dating back to 1986. After 42k km (26k mi) of pretty hard riding (like flat out on das Autobahn for hours on end), the bike was completely dismantled. Inside, most of the engine was like new, apart from one mysterious fault; the fourth main bearing on the crank was absolutely shot. No other damage was found, the oil filter was clean, and the crank itself could be reused after lightly polishing the crank journal. A freak occurrence that nobody could explain. The only other issues was a clutch out of line with the output shaft by 0.22 mm, causing the splines to strip after about half the total test distance, a fork that sprung a leak at the seals, and a shock that wore out and lost most of its damping.
I also have a 100k km / 62k mi long term test of the K100RT that I plan to read someday.
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My K100 was a bit of a wreck with the benefit of hindsight.
Good points..
Plenty of room to move around on, so 100+ mile runs were a pleasure (most of the time).
Seriously low down grunt - could pull up a 30mph pretty steep hill in top gear.
Decent fuel economy.
Got us home when a coil connector came loose (provoked by a tipover), 2-up along undulating and twisty terrain, for half of the 50 miles or thereabouts.
Accessories are well thought out. A tail rack came with a fitting template and the underside of the tailpiece has pre-formed areas for bolts to go through. Likewise for the small factory windscreen.
Kinda Bad points..
Make me hanker for a Luftmeister turbo kit - yippee!
Made me hanker for a K100RS 16V - pearlescent paint one.
I used to scrape the rocker cover when keeping up with my buddies on their sporty machines - reputedly quite a sight of little me on big bike.
Bad points..
Got banned for 6 months for doing 128mph on a clear 70mph dual carriageway. :copcar: :thewife: I had got pissed off being stuck behind some old git for miles, on a peachy twisty road in the glens, with nowhere safe to pass. :violent1: :embarassed:
The throttle cable overheated in a tourist town in the Highlands and stuck open - that was a fun few moments!
I got stranded one evening on my way home, due to the internal fuel pump hose popping off. Yeah, I now know that it's not that rare a thing to happen. :wink:
The back wheel buckled after enduring the pot holes of Glasgow city centre. Seemingly a known issue with some BMW wheels of that era and I sent it down to England to a specialist, for straightening. The Glasgow pot holes haven't really improved since then, seemingly.
The delightfully thought of lifting handle (to help onto the centrestand) had a great habit of separating from the rubber handle, leaving me holding this item, with the bike laying on its side, like some pushed over cow (that's a 'murican thang, I'm told).
Mine failed an MOT for out of alignment wheels - I tried to explain the deliberate offset due to single-side swingarm and shaft drive. Went to a lot of trouble and expense (for me) to try to rectify with a 'straightened' frame, as well a really poor useless BMW dealer supposed diagnosis. It handled worse after this but passed an MOT test. Go figure. I re-covered the seat, resprayed the bike (in different colours) and traded it in to the dealer that had failed it, who didn't recognise it. :angel:
I'm sure that there were other features, stories, events etc.
Get yerself a Triumph 955i Sprint ST 2001/2 model onwards (mine was a 1st gen. 1999). Characterful, strong engine and 55+ MPG Imperial. 208kg "dry". (Too large & heavy for me now, otherwise I'd have kept it for another 20 years, if I live that long).
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I test rode a relatively clean K75 and quite enjoyed it. The rubber band type of sound from the engine was amusing. I quite fancied a K75S or the one with the low seat option (K75C?). Shortly after, I test rode a 900 Trident and the difference was immense - no contest and still my favourite bike of all, though a bit top heavy for me now. They did a Sprint version with top fairing.
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Talk you out of it? Ok.
Do you agree to dress like a ‘Power Ranger’ each and everytime you ride your premium BMW motorcycle?
Will you adhere to and conform to the ‘BMW Dress Code’ and their never wave policy?
Are you devoted to the BMW Engineering Program Policy of never showing emotion and only talking in ‘technical and/or ‘engineering’ terms no matter what?
Are you devoid of a ‘normal human personality’ and will you adhere to the BMW riders unified preprogrammed robotic speech and reply pattern.
Will you agree to make fun of every rider and their motorcycle behind the backs of anyone that doesn’t ride a BMW?
Do you solemnly swear to uphold the BMW superior attitude anytime a motorcycle or a motorcyclist is within earshot?
Do you swear your clothing allegiance to Shuberth for helmets and Kim or BMW logo apparel?
If not, get out now.!
Will you agree that the only good saddlebag and trunk systems are BMW supplied aluminum cases?
As a BMW owner/rider will you swear your total devotion, allegiance and adherence to the rules as set forth by the BMW Motorsports Owners Group.
Will you agree to ride standing on your pegs to allow blood flow to your buttocks? Again, if not, get out now.
Do you solemnly swear to never, ever, no not ever once utter the phrase: Loud Pipes Saves Lives? If you said it out loud reading this, get out, just get out!
Do you agree to always have at least one black ink pen and a sharpened #2 pencil in a pocket protector and on your person at all times? On and off your premier BMW motorcycle?
Do you solemnly swear to never get or allow a current tattoo, a piercing, or any other body modification (not even one related to BMW) to show while you’re in your ‘BMW Approved Riding Apparel’?
Failure to comply 100% to any of the above stated BMW Approved Behavior Patterns means you agree to stay away from your BMW for no less than 120 consecutive days and nights.
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I test rode a relatively clean K75 and quite enjoyed it. The rubber band type of sound from the engine was amusing. I quite fancied a K75S or the one with the low seat option (K75C?). Shortly after, I test rode a 900 Trident and the difference was immense - no contest and still my favourite bike of all, though a bit top heavy for me now. They did a Sprint version with top fairing.
Thank you for the report on the K100 above also!
I used to own a Sprint 900 until I had a head-on encounter with a Volvo 240 trying to pass a car around a blind corner, completely blocking my way. To me, the Sprint was not unlike the way I see the K-series from BMW; very good tool, but not exciting. 20 years ago, that was a bad thing. Now I consider it a good thing. Perhaps I should start drinking and sort myself :boozing:
I also mixed a Thunderbird 900 and a Daytona 900 into a Daybird. My brother has also owned several 900s, among them a late version Trophy. That was really difficult to work on due to the way the fairing was made and mounted. Apart from my Sprint and the Daybird, all the 900s I have tried vibrated too much, rapidly numbing my fingers. Same with the 955 Sprint I tested, which was even worse. Strangely, the vibrations hardly changed from idle onwards, they were omnipresent.
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Talk you out of it? Ok.
Do you agree to dress like a ‘Power Ranger’ each and everytime you ride your premium BMW motorcycle?
Will you adhere to and conform to the ‘BMW Dress Code’ and their never wave policy?
Are you devoted to the BMW Engineering Program Policy of never showing emotion and only talking in ‘technical and/or ‘engineering’ terms no matter what?
Are you devoid of a ‘normal human personality’ and will you adhere to the BNW riders unified preprogrammed robotic speech and reply pattern.
Will you agree to make fun of every rider and their motorcycle behind the backs of anyone that doesn’t ride a BMW?
Do you solemnly swear to uphold the BMW superior attitude anytime a motorcycle or a motorcyclist is within earshot?
Do you swear your clothing allegiance to Shuberth for helmets and Kim or BMW logo apparel?
If not, get out now.!
Will you agree that the only good saddlebag and trunk systems are BMW supplied aluminum cases?
As a BMW owner/rider will you swear your total devotion, allegiance and adherence to the rules as set forth by the BMW Motorsports Owners Group.
Will you agree to ride standing on your pegs to allow blood flow to your buttocks? Again, if not, get out now.
Do you solemnly swear to never, ever, no not ever once utter the phrase: Loud Pipes Saves Lives? If you said it out loud reading this, get out, just get out!
Do you agree to always have at least one black ink pen and a sharpened #2 pencil in a pocket protector and on your person at all times? On and off your premier BMW motorcycle?
Do you solemnly swear to never get or allow a current tattoo, a piercing, or any other body modification (not even one related to BMW) to show while you’re in your ‘BMW Approved Riding Apparel’?
Failure to comply 100% to any of the above stated BMW Approved Behavior Patterns means you agree to stay away from your BMW for no less than 120 consecutive days and nights.
If you managed to come up with all that on your own, then :bow:
My cousin, who rides KTMs and participate on offroad rallies, have told stories of BMW GS riders that comply with your points. Those I have met out on the roads? Not so much, thankfully :laugh:
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@TN, I own a 1986 BMW G/S, totally avoid contact with the moronic attitudes of other BMW (or worse 1st gen G/S Queens ) owners. And they will look down on a K100 owner as a penniless BMW wannabe any way.
I just ride my G/S and enjoy it, not there to socialize with the "B" folks.
That said, i find the K100 an abomination, on so many levels.
"light weight"? if 240 kg is light, what is heavy then? :)
Id go with a K75 and ride this fun oddball bike with pride.
Or make the jump to the first across the frame fours, the K1200S/R/etc.
Same weight but they have a nuclear power-station instead of an engine..... acceleration is simply atomic and are very sporty too.
Totally underrated and underpriced.
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I am reading up on all those old K75 tests I have in my archive that I did not bother to read when the bike was new - I tend to agree with you, turboguzzi, in that it is the preferred version :thumb:
I also agree that 250 kg / 550 lbs, give or take, is not light as such, but for a touring bike it is. My Deauville 650 was 250 kg wet with a claimed 56PS, and the 700 version with ABS was 257 kg wet with a claimed 65PS. Both had the same top speed when tested by MOTORRAD at 185 kph / 115 mph, which is more than fast enough. But there is no grunt - the 700 Deauville is the only bike to get 0 points when measuring acceleration 2-up in 2nd gear up an 11% incline. While the K75RT is no rocket, its roll-on performance is much stronger.
A friend of mine has a K1300S. It is definitely fast, but a pig on the sort of roads I enjoy, hampered by a massive wheelbase and too sporty riding position. I could go faster on these rural roads on my Deauville than on his K1300S, and have more fun as well. And I do not need 175 hp on our roads, it will only get me into trouble :copcar:
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When I moved in 1997 to the town I now live in I soon learned the the NorCal BMW group held an annual rally at the fairgrounds. Since I rode a R90/6 I was anxious to attend the next one, which I did. I was never more bored at a rally than I was at that one. Nothing like the Top of the Rockies Rally I used to attend when I lived in Colo. Since my office was in the fairgrounds building I got to see many more with no apparent improvements. When I decided to sell the R90 I put it outside the back door with a for sale sign with a give away price on it I didn't get a single bite. I guess old Airheads were beneath them at the time, not so much now.
kk
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faffi, have you considered a Honda Pacific Coast?
I’ve never owned or ridden one but they’re blantantly boring annd odd that I think about one from time to time. As exciting as a $10 toaster or plain white copy paper.
Then I shake myself back to reality and quickly get over the thought.
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Maybe a modern BMW is the answer....look at this beauty in Lava Orange!
(https://i.ibb.co/ksdjVZ7b/2000000001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ksdjVZ7b)
(https://i.ibb.co/TBwB1x11/2000000012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TBwB1x11)
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An Idaho Utuber wanted to buy one of these when they first came out. He searched every dealer within several hundred miles with no luck. Not that many imported and the ones that were, had already been spoken for. A good looking bikes but I think the V7 850s are nicer not that I own one. :wink:
kk
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well faffi, one thing you didnt say is whats the budget....
K75s can be had for a song or almost
K1000s have a new strange problem, so many have been turned into stupid or less stupid "specials", .... its getting not easy to find nice stock ones.... everyone with an angle grinder thinks he can make a master piece and that its worth X 3 the std price
https://www.autoscout24.com/lst-moto/bmw/k-75?atype=B&damaged_listing=exclude&desc=0&powertype=kw&search_id=20oohh6luhw&sort=standard&source=homepage_search-mask&ustate=N%2CU
https://www.autoscout24.com/lst-moto/bmw/k-75-s?atype=B&damaged_listing=exclude&desc=0&powertype=kw&search_id=2bgy0pw30zc&sort=standard&source=homepage_search-mask&ustate=N%2CU
https://www.autoscout24.com/lst-moto/bmw/k-100?atype=B&damaged_listing=exclude&desc=0&powertype=kw&search_id=a7yyn1hnih&sort=standard&source=homepage_search-mask&ustate=N%2CU
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faffi, have you considered a Honda Pacific Coast?
There was a time, maybe 35 years ago, that I did. But it is a very peculiar bike, somewhere between a motorcycle and a scooter that is not all that functional. But I am impressed you remembered it and brought it up :thumb:
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Maybe a modern BMW is the answer....look at this beauty in Lava Orange!
(https://i.ibb.co/ksdjVZ7b/2000000001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ksdjVZ7b)
(https://i.ibb.co/TBwB1x11/2000000012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TBwB1x11)
Very pretty, but not much weather protection, unfortunately.
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turboguzzi, there are not a lot of hacked up bikes in Norway due to strict regulations for what you are allowed to do without getting an official approval and the changes registered in the papers. Changing the seat, changing the exhaust, changing wheel sizes, changing brakes or changing suspension must all be approved by an official. Many take their chances and modify anyway (like me), but if it is very obvious, you do risk losing your plate by the roadside, where you must leave your bike and arrange for pickup if the officer consider the changes too dramatic to allow further travel. You also risk having the vehicle condemned from further road use permanently.
Budget is not really comparable between USA and Norway. For instance, my 2017 Roamer is worth about 7,500 USD, a new R12 G/S will set you back USD 30,000. There is a 1991 K100RS that need some work for sale at USD 2,200. My budget limit is USD 12,000.
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How about a Triumph Trophy? Just in between a twin and an inline 4...full wind protection, solid 3 cyclinder smooth engine, plenty of spare parts I'm sure. I looked at a Trophy before getting the Norge...there were some nice versions in Norwegian Blue and British Racing Green.
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How about a Triumph Trophy? Just in between a twin and an inline 4...full wind protection, solid 3 cyclinder smooth engine, plenty of spare parts I'm sure. I looked at a Trophy before getting the Norge...there were some nice versions in Norwegian Blue and British Racing Green.
See reply #69, but it is a relevant suggestion.
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If you managed to come up with all that on your own, then :bow:
My cousin, who rides KTMs and participate on offroad rallies, have told stories of BMW GS riders that comply with your points. Those I have met out on the roads? Not so much, thankfully :laugh:
Shirley, your cousin knows that Austrians are the ultimate Germans! Just ask him!
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"Are you devoid of a ‘normal human personality?"
THA ONE I have - in spades! :shocked: :grin:
-Stretch
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The description of BMW riders as snobs, reminded me of a great column from the 1970's, Cycle magazine, and authored by Phil Schilling or Cook Neilson IIRC.
The author had parked his brand new Beemer near the huge front window of a high class restaurant, and after breakfast, he decided to put on a show of how a Master Motorcyclist preps for a ride. The pre-flight check list included inspecting both tires, switch gear, checking the headlight, brake light, and turn signals. He demonstrated proper warmup by starting the bike and feeling the cylinder heads to verify temperature. Of course, putting on all the proper safety gear also required a demonstration ritual.
Getting on the bike, he looks in the rearview mirrors and adjusts them properly.
Putting the bike in gear, he flips up the side stand, catches his boot lace on the shifter or foot peg and proceeds to fall over.
From my personal files:
A new acquaintance (with decades of riding experience) borrowed a Beemer from an old friend he had known for decades. As we pull up to the restaurant for breakfast, he forgets to put down the side stand and falls over.
Since we are both in our 60's, we laugh hysterically! Life is grand!!
When we get back to the farm, and tell the owner of the Beemer what happened, all three of us laugh again.
These are the great memories that we will relate at each other's funerals!
As one of my favorite authors says "Never tempt the goddess Nemesis!"
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As an owner of a 2002 K1200RS BMW for the last 20+ years, the flat four is no comparison to the inline fours from Japan. They were the best engine BMW ever produced and I was very sad the stopped making them, in fact that's why I still have my old RS, don't like the new engine. So long as the K100 was NOT built for the US market you're good. Here in the states BMW had to de-tune the engine to meet environMENTAL emission standards, so in effect the K75 (3-cyl) 750 had more HP than the K100 here because any 750cc engine was less restricted. I can't talk you out of a K100 is I tried. If you get it keep in mind a company called KPartsHolland, good people.
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I remember that tale in Cycle. I believe I laughed out loud. I had a shoelace get caught just the other day. After a bazillion years of riding I can identify the problem immediately and take corrective action. I must not have tied my boots properly that morning to not have any loops hanging down. Just a few months ago I was in deep thought when riding into the shop. I didn't put my feet down so the V7 decided to take a nap. Fortunately I can lift the V7 so I didn't have to fetch my wife to help and suffer the "look." Just one more reason we are all bike riders, what else would we have to talk about?
kk
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I rode a friend's when they first came out. He was going to buy a Suzuki, I told him to try a K100 which he immediately bought. It was a bit buzzy but get the rpm up and it smoothed out. Later models were better.
kk
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I love the way electric cars operate, being able to do everything with just one pedal - stopping as well as accelerating. The charging is still a PITA, though, with not enough range and long time required to charge up relatively speaking compared to fuel. My Skoda Octavia with a 150hp turbo petrol engine will deliver 50 mpg on long drives and safely go 600 miles on a tank, and it only takes a couple of minutes to "charge it" for another 600 miles.
I plug my car into a standard US wall outlet (level one charging). It adds about 20% charge overnight- 50% if I leave it for a full day. My range says 220mi at 90% charge (man'f recco 'daily' or normal ceiling) and 240mi at 100% charge (should only charge fully occasionally or for planned road trips).
I intended to add a level 2 home charger outlet (240v/48A) but I procrastinated the first couple month and my range anxiety eased as I saw I basically never needed anything beyond level 1 - so I saved myself about $1,500 bucks due to lazyness.
I've driven my car for a year and a half and I think it has been on a Level3/paid/public/fast charger a grand total of 4 times.... On road trips I stop every 160-200 miles and charge for about 15mins. My car could charge 10%-80% on a fast charger in about 25mins. Just enough time to park, plug, go take a leak, maybe buy a coffee.... If it needs more time when I get back, I will sit in the passenger seat and watch YouTube videos for 10 min or walk around the charge location and puff a J in the woods for a couple mins...
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If you managed to come up with all that on your own, then :bow:
My cousin, who rides KTMs and participate on offroad rallies, have told stories of BMW GS riders that comply with your points. Those I have met out on the roads? Not so much, thankfully :laugh:
Indeed. Hard to tell if he was just being facetious. If not, BMW is definitely living inside his head! :grin:
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The description of BMW riders as snobs, reminded me of a great column from the 1970's, Cycle magazine, and authored by Phil Schilling or Cook Neilson IIRC.
The author had parked his brand new Beemer near the huge front window of a high class restaurant, and after breakfast, he decided to put on a show of how a Master Motorcyclist preps for a ride. The pre-flight check list included inspecting both tires, switch gear, checking the headlight, brake light, and turn signals. He demonstrated proper warmup by starting the bike and feeling the cylinder heads to verify temperature. Of course, putting on all the proper safety gear also required a demonstration ritual.
Getting on the bike, he looks in the rearview mirrors and adjusts them properly.
Putting the bike in gear, he flips up the side stand, catches his boot lace on the shifter or foot peg and proceeds to fall over.
From my personal files:
A new acquaintance (with decades of riding experience) borrowed a Beemer from an old fiend he had known for decades. As we pull up to the restaurant for breakfast, he forgets to put down the side stand and falls over.
Since we are both in our 60's, we laugh hysterically! Life is grand!!
When we get back to the farm, and tell the owner of the Beemer what happened, all three of us laugh again.
These are the great memories that we will relate at each other's funerals!
As one of my favorite authors says "Never tempt the goddess Nemesis!"
I had forgotten all about the article, thank you for reminding me :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Mercedes have a new model with a range of over 500 miles - in the summer. Range drop substantially in freezing temps. Not sure about charging time, probably about one hour. Some do not mind. I do. When I drive cross-country, I usually drive 7 hours non-stop. Stopping to charge, which is needed for the majority of electric cars, really annoy me. I drove our company electric van the same route. It has a range of just under 150 miles, and it takes 55 minutes to get it to 90% range. The 7-hour drive took more than 10 hours, also because I had to cruise at 50 mph to not waste range. I will continue with my petrol car for now.
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As an owner of a 2002 K1200RS BMW for the last 20+ years, the flat four is no comparison to the inline fours from Japan. They were the best engine BMW ever produced and I was very sad the stopped making them, in fact that's why I still have my old RS, don't like the new engine. So long as the K100 was NOT built for the US market you're good. Here in the states BMW had to de-tune the engine to meet environMENTAL emission standards, so in effect the K75 (3-cyl) 750 had more HP than the K100 here because any 750cc engine was less restricted. I can't talk you out of a K100 is I tried. If you get it keep in mind a company called KPartsHolland, good people.
The more of the old test reports I read, the more it seems like the 75 is the best choice. Even those lost power from 1989-on here in Europe. Despite the same 75PS claim from BMW, actual power usually was in the 69-70 PS at the crank. Surprisingly, the 1990 ABS version of the K75RT had a top speed 7 mph lower than that of the 56PS Deauville 650 as well as the 65PS Deauville 700. Acceleration was also similar, with the BMW offering stronger roll-on performance. With ABS and bags, the K75RT came in at a heavy 586 lbs wet. The fairing and fuel tank of the 1990 75RT was lifted directly off the K1100LT.
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I had a shoelace get caught just the other day. After a bazillion years of riding I can identify the problem immediately and take corrective action. I must not have tied my boots properly that morning to not have any loops hanging down. Just a few months ago I was in deep thought when riding into the shop. I didn't put my feet down so the V7 decided to take a nap. Fortunately I can lift the V7 so I didn't have to fetch my wife to help and suffer the "look." Just one more reason we are all bike riders, what else would we have to talk about?
kk
I cannot say with absolute certainty that I have never ridden with shoes wearing shoelaces, but I cannot recall any such ride. It is not an active plan, it just never occurred to me that it was an option due to the obvious inconvenience.
However, I did forget to put the stand down on my CBF1000 when adjusting the headlight after getting off the umpteenth time. While the bike was not particularly heavy at about 565 lbs, it had a very high CoG, and I could not prevent it from going down, I could only slow the speed. It is the only bike that I have had to lift up where I could not just grab the bars and raise it. Instead, I had to grab the handle bar and the grab rail and REALLY lift to get it back up. But first I had a look around to check if anybody had seen me dropping the bike :embarrassed:
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Always a good reason not to wear shoes with shoelaces when riding a motorcycle...I've seen this happen a couple of times to folks...almost like being unable to unclip out on bike pedals...and down you go in a slow motion oh shit moment while others watch the calamity unfold!
:thumb: :thumb:
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Very entertaining thread!
I was a BMW rider R90/6 and R90/S before getting into Guzzis in the mid-1980s. There is no comparison concerning character of the two makes as I have owned a dozen Guzzis since. In the winter of 2005 I stumbled into a nice K100RS in a big-4 dearlership and made an obscene offer on it and ended up owning a characterless bike for a couple of years. My observation is that the K bike was terrific at higher cruising speeds and a joy to hustle around 70MPH sweepers, but a cumbersome PIA on the back roads I usually enjoyed. Sold it and bought my second Lario. I would agree on the observation that the best K option is the K75S if you have to have a BMW to fulfill some sordid bucket list.
I would also add that as I am pushing age 70, that I now have a rule about both dogs and motorcycles: Don't own one you can not pick up all by yourself. So the K-bikes are out for me.
Would dearly love to own another R90/S, but those have gone nuts $$ with "investment collectors" and I'm not willing to pay a premium.
Currently considering a used Aprilia 750 Shiver or new Tuono 457, if I don't find something intriguing first.
Good Hunting!
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The more of the old test reports I read, the more it seems like the 75 is the best choice.
The K75S is the best early K-bike: well made, long lasting, comfortable and easy to service. The hard luggage of the early K-bikes also works well. These were BMWs attempt to preserve the traditional virtues of their flat twins but in a modern package. In doing this it was pretty successful and all the early 2v/cylinder K-Bikes remind me of a a 1980s BMW car, in a good way. Later on BMW simply gave up on simplicity and serviceability in all their products.
On the downside, the K75S is underpowered and while you can rev it hard and make it go well enough, it’s no faster than say a CX100 or 1000SP Guzzi… I traded back and forth between a K75S and CX on a long ride once. In terms of handling the shaft drive and soft suspension on the K75 become a liability if you start to push it hard, on another ride long ago (in maybe 1990) I switched per back and forth between a K75S and a 1983 Honda V45 Interceptor and the Honda was much better when pushed on windy roads. Keeping up on the K75 in that company involved pushing the bike past the limits of a wise rider. The four cylinder K100RS was worse yet, another step behind the K75 in handling but it went better on open roads - the early four cylinder bike was mostly an open road tourer by nature although the paralever K1100RS was better on twisty roads. Skip the in-between K100RS four valve, the Motronic EFI on that one is clunky and it’s a bit of a mess.
One more note: the best BMW handling street bike of the early K-bike era was not a K-bike, it was the paralever R100GS that came out in 1988, or maybe the similar R100R but these are not so silky smooth or refined as a K75.
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Very entertaining thread!
I was a BMW rider R90/6 and R90/S before getting into Guzzis in the mid-1980s. There is no comparison concerning character of the two makes as I have owned a dozen Guzzis since. In the winter of 2005 I stumbled into a nice K100RS in a big-4 dearlership and made an obscene offer on it and ended up owning a characterless bike for a couple of years. My observation is that the K bike was terrific at higher cruising speeds and a joy to hustle around 70MPH sweepers, but a cumbersome PIA on the back roads I usually enjoyed. Sold it and bought my second Lario. I would agree on the observation that the best K option is the K75S if you have to have a BMW to fulfill some sordid bucket list.
I would also add that as I am pushing age 70, that I now have a rule about both dogs and motorcycles: Don't own one you can not pick up all by yourself. So the K-bikes are out for me.
Would dearly love to own another R90/S, but those have gone nuts $$ with "investment collectors" and I'm not willing to pay a premium.
Currently considering a used Aprilia 750 Shiver or new Tuono 457, if I don't find something intriguing first.
Good Hunting!
Thanks!
I do not mind bland as long as it is good bland, meaning something just works. Your description reminds me of a story in Cycle magazine from November 1982, IIRC, where they went on a multi-day ride on four European machines; BMW R65LS, Ducati Pantah 600, Laverda 1200 Mirage and Moto Guzzi SP1000. The author wrote something like this: "After a spirited ride, three og the men were giggling and discussing their speeding antics and the drama. The Guzzi rider observed this in silence, wondering if they had really ridden that fast, or if the other three had just gone mad."
Personally, I must say that I never felt comfortable riding any of the old Guzzi, be that Loop or Tonti, small- or big block. My brother, OTOH, have always loved them, and still own several. The only bike he has disliked is a 1000 Quota he currently owns. He also HATED his Honda 650 Deauville, whereas I really liked mine - I only sold it because the engine vibrations numbed my hands. I mention this to illustrate that people have different preferences and requirements. Luckily, there are quite a number of bikes to choose from :thumb:
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The K75S is the best early K-bike: well made, long lasting, comfortable and easy to service. The hard luggage of the early K-bikes also works well. These were BMWs attempt to preserve the traditional virtues of their flat twins but in a modern package. In doing this it was pretty successful and all the early 2v/cylinder K-Bikes remind me of a a 1980s BMW car, in a good way. Later on BMW simply gave up on simplicity and serviceability in all their products.
On the downside, the K75S is underpowered and while you can rev it hard and make it go well enough, it’s no faster than say a CX100 or 1000SP Guzzi… I traded back and forth between a K75S and CX on a long ride once. In terms of handling the shaft drive and soft suspension on the K75 become a liability if you start to push it hard, on another ride long ago (in maybe 1990) I switched per back and forth between a K75S and a 1983 Honda V45 Interceptor and the Honda was much better when pushed on windy roads. Keeping up on the K75 in that company involved pushing the bike past the limits of a wise rider. The four cylinder K100RS was worse yet, another step behind the K75 in handling but it went better on open roads - the early four cylinder bike was mostly an open road tourer by nature although the paralever K1100RS was better on twisty roads. Skip the in-between K100RS four valve, the Motronic EFI on that one is clunky and it’s a bit of a mess.
One more note: the best BMW handling street bike of the early K-bike era was not a K-bike, it was the paralever R100GS that came out in 1988, or maybe the similar R100R but these are not so silky smooth or refined as a K75.
I think this post is the one that comes closest to the target of talking me out of a K-bike :bow:
While I enjoy functionality, I am not against character. For instance, I find my V9 to be both functional (to a point) and also having character. What it does not have, is comfort or practicality. The old BMW airheads do not gel with me, primarily due to the rise and fall of the final drive and the overly soft suspension, but the R100GS supposedly do not suffer from this. As to the R100R, it was a bike I lusted after when they came out, but it too had some weird things going in in typical BMW fashion. The strangest was that the front and rear rims both were 2.5 in wide (narrow?), the front fitted with a 110/80 and the rear a 140/80 tire. The bike worked much better with a 130/90 rear tire, but that was just tall enough to allow the tire to rub on the fender with a fully compressed shock absorber, meaning it was illegal to use in Germany. IIRC, BMW came up with a fix in for of a plastic spacer that limited shock travel and had the 130/90 tire approved.
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FYI: I have played these games (for myself) since I began riding in 1980. Often, nothing comes out of it, but I still take pleasure from the personal mind games. In other words, I take no offense if people do not want to chime in, but I get very happy when they (you) do. So thank you for contributing and giving me many smiles and lotsa food for thought so far :boozing:
Anyway, I have tried to put up a limited list over requirements for the semi-sporty touring bike I am looking for. By limited I mean leaving some slack for outsider-bikes to be considered.
1. Weather protection
2. Fuel injection
3. Reliability and ease of maintenance
4. Shaft drive
5. Decent cornering ability on backroads
There are of course many more things, like wind buffeting, engine vibrations, ease of maintenance, fuel consumption and on and on. But that would just be too limiting to address them all. And of the 5 points, I reckon one can be eliminated if the bike in question is particularly good at other things.
So here is my current shortlist in alphabetical order:
BMW K75RT
BMW K100RS
BMW R850RT
BMW R1100RT
Honda NT700V Deauville
Moto Guzzi Norge
What should be added?
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On your list of specifications, to me the one that narrows down the field the most is shaft drive. If I had to choose one from your list of potential bikes, I'd definitely go for the K100RS. BMWs in general tend to be boring bikes to ride, but the "R" ones even more so.
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FYI: I have played these games (for myself) since I began riding in 1980. Often, nothing comes out of it, but I still take pleasure from the personal mind games. In other words, I take no offense if people do not want to chime in, but I get very happy when they (you) do. So thank you for contributing and giving me many smiles and lotsa food for thought so far :boozing:
Anyway, I have tried to put up a limited list over requirements for the semi-sporty touring bike I am looking for. By limited I mean leaving some slack for outsider-bikes to be considered.
1. Weather protection
2. Fuel injection
3. Reliability and ease of maintenance
4. Shaft drive
5. Decent cornering ability on backroads
There are of course many more things, like wind buffeting, engine vibrations, ease of maintenance, fuel consumption and on and on. But that would just be too limiting to address them all. And of the 5 points, I reckon one can be eliminated if the bike in question is particularly good at other things.
So here is my current shortlist in alphabetical order:
BMW K75RT
BMW K100RS
BMW R850RT
BMW R1100RT
Honda NT700V Deauville
Moto Guzzi Norge
What should be added?
On the behalf of experts both inside my head and worldwide, you be welcome. :wink:
I don't think the Deauville was marketed in the US, but the Honda Pacific Coast was similar.
Fairings + Shaft drive tend to mean "heavy."
I think Honda was one of the few who attempted to produce a smaller, lighter touring bike with the Silver Wing, which was based on the CX500/650.
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Choosing the "right" bike is always a challenge. What are the tradeoffs? Weight? Cost? Complexity? Service? Age (of you and the bike!) and so on. Looking at your list, I'd say the older K bikes if you can find a nice clean example. But they can have their own set of challenges. Number one being oil getting past the seal and onto the dry clutch. If and when it happens, it is a big repair job to tackle. I noticed the Moto Guzzi V85 was not on your list? It would seem to tick all your boxes. Maybe I overlooked why you excluded it. Early versions would now seem to be cheap enough. Much easier to work on than an old K bike. Of course, nothing is written in stone. If you pick something that turns out not to have been what you expected, you can sell it and try again. I know people that go through motorcycles like changing socks!
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I've toyed with buying BMW's over the years and could never take the plunge. The last time was taking a brand new RT out for a test ride and the transmission clunk was just awful and during the ride shifting it into neutral was difficult at best so I just turned around and brought it back to the dealer. Then there are all the people I know who either have had final drive problems or have to buy extended warranties on their BMW's with plans to sell the bikes when those warranties run out.
I'd buy the Honda or Norge depending on mileage and maintenance history but one bike is a sewing machine, which some people like and then there is the Norge and I'll take a twin that I can work on without too much difficulty.
"So here is my current shortlist in alphabetical order:
BMW K75RT
BMW K100RS
BMW R850RT
BMW R1100RT
Honda NT700V Deauville
Moto Guzzi Norge"
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While it doesn't have shaft drive, a mid to late 80's Honda VF Interceptor, either 750 or 1000 are impressive bikes. I used to ride one while at the university, a friend had one. Fast, decent wind coverage, smooth as silk. I've often thought it would be nice to find one again. The chain drive I don't think suffered from many issues, so 4 out 5 on your list if you're willing to consider chain vs. shaft.
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Well, since we didnt managed to talk you OUT of it, we might as well help you
quite a few from your list for a song.... just press on the BMW button
=61225]https://www.catawiki.com/en/c/713-classic-motorcycles-scooters?filters=909[]=61225 (https://www.catawiki.com/en/c/713-classic-motorcycles-scooters?filters=909[)
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Well, since we didnt managed to talk you OUT of it, we might as well help you
quite a few from your list for a song.... just press on the BMW button
=61225]https://www.catawiki.com/en/c/713-classic-motorcycles-scooters?filters=909[]=61225 (https://www.catawiki.com/en/c/713-classic-motorcycles-scooters?filters=909[)
Holy cow - there are bid prices for bikes there that cost less than a set of sport bike tires :shocked:
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While it doesn't have shaft drive, a mid to late 80's Honda VF Interceptor, either 750 or 1000 are impressive bikes. I used to ride one while at the university, a friend had one. Fast, decent wind coverage, smooth as silk. I've often thought it would be nice to find one again. The chain drive I don't think suffered from many issues, so 4 out 5 on your list if you're willing to consider chain vs. shaft.
The VF1000FII* with the 18in front wheel and full fairing would be the one to go for, but it is as heavy as a K100RT with saddlebags. Carbs and chain are two points it fail to match, plus I know myself well enough to understand that I would ride MUCH too fast far too often. Been there, done that so many times when I bought the "wrong" bike because I imagined I had matured enough to own one. Unfortunately.
*The VF1000FII won the comparison test made by MOTORRAD against the FJ1100, GS(X)1100EF, GPz900R Ninja and K100RS - by a considerable margin.
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I've toyed with buying BMW's over the years and could never take the plunge. The last time was taking a brand new RT out for a test ride and the transmission clunk was just awful and during the ride shifting it into neutral was difficult at best so I just turned around and brought it back to the dealer. Then there are all the people I know who either have had final drive problems or have to buy extended warranties on their BMW's with plans to sell the bikes when those warranties run out.
I'd buy the Honda or Norge depending on mileage and maintenance history but one bike is a sewing machine, which some people like and then there is the Norge and I'll take a twin that I can work on without too much difficulty.
The Deauville is also a twin, and they typically go 100,000 miles without even needing a valve adjustment. Even the old 650 with screw tappets. Most do not even bother to measure the valve clearances because they rarely require one, and getting to them is a serious PITA. Apart from that, they are simple to work on. The Norge should be similar, I expect.
This is my 1999 650 when I sold it exactly 5 years ago on this day
(https://i.ibb.co/wNxQYd8N/IMG-20201126-195430980.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wNxQYd8N)
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Choosing the "right" bike is always a challenge. What are the tradeoffs? Weight? Cost? Complexity? Service? Age (of you and the bike!) and so on. Looking at your list, I'd say the older K bikes if you can find a nice clean example. But they can have their own set of challenges. Number one being oil getting past the seal and onto the dry clutch. If and when it happens, it is a big repair job to tackle. I noticed the Moto Guzzi V85 was not on your list? It would seem to tick all your boxes. Maybe I overlooked why you excluded it. Early versions would now seem to be cheap enough. Much easier to work on than an old K bike. Of course, nothing is written in stone. If you pick something that turns out not to have been what you expected, you can sell it and try again. I know people that go through motorcycles like changing socks!
Never ridden a V85TT, nor did I think of it as a bike with good weather protection - perhaps I am wrong?
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On the behalf of experts both inside my head and worldwide, you be welcome. :wink:
I don't think the Deauville was marketed in the US, but the Honda Pacific Coast was similar.
Fairings + Shaft drive tend to mean "heavy."
I think Honda was one of the few who attempted to produce a smaller, lighter touring bike with the Silver Wing, which was based on the CX500/650.
Shaft drive will add perhaps 20 lbs? Also, touring bikes tend to be made to carry bigger loads, so they usually have stronger, heavier frames than sport bikes. Then the luggage will add 15 lbs at least, and the fairing a lot more than the typical 10 lbs sport bike fairing. Suspension and wheels will also often be cheaper and heavier than the same items of a sport bike. The sum is a bike that is no lightweight. Very few, if any, bikes with full size touring fairings and luggage under 550 lbs.
Yes, the GL500 Silver Wing was the first "full touring bike" in that class, with the fairing off the Gold WIng 1100 and saddlebags off the CBX ProLink and a top box of its own. In Japan, the engine was downsized to a 400. The 650 was basically the same as the 500, with a bit more bore and stroke to get it to 673cc.
The PC800 got its engine from the Shadow 800, but tuned a bit differently. The luggage compartment opened like the trunk of a car. It had tiny covers all over the bike to give owners access to maintenance points. The engine had hydraulic valve lifters and needed no valve clearance adjustments. The fairing was not praised by many, where noisy turbulences behind it being the biggest offender. Finding parts today is not easy, especially in Europpe since it was never imported here officially.
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The bike I have owned with the best weather protection was the 1996 Suzuki GSX600F Katana. It was also the least and most comfortable bike I have owned.
Weather protection: Only the shoulders and top of my helmet got wet when riding in the rain. But there was a lot of noisy turbulence going on behind the screen that was annoying listening to. Laying down or sitting upright, the noise was the same. Only by standing on the pegs, which was awkward what with the low handlebars, was the silence.
Comfort: It was not a pleasant position to be in, with low, narrow 'bars, a rock hard seat, and pegs high and back. But it was very easy to alter seating position, which I did every 5 minutes. So while I was never comfortable, I did not feel any worse after riding for 8 hours over a day. Never had a sore behind, either, due to the big, firm, flat seat and the ease of moving around to alter pressure points.
I sold it when I began going around fast corners with both wheels sliding and wanting more grip so I could go faster still. In other words, an accident was imminent. Better to sell. That was 20 years ago.
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Short and fun test of a Deauville 650 - I am very familiar with the scraping sounds from my own ownership https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSl--iZLTQQ
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This gentleman - perhaps a member here? - sold his Norge and kept his 700 Deauville. His last ride on the Norge before selling it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klCK0HFSHy8
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Deauville 650 vs Pacific Coast 800 https://www.motorradonline.de/tourer/vergleichstest-honda-nt-650-v-deauville-und-honda-pc-800-pacific-coast-deja-vu/
Most will want to use google translate.
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Don’t work on finding the right bike…
Work on becoming the right rider.
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I've never owned a brick-engine K bike, but did have an R100RS and K1200S for a while. The R was about as exciting to ride as a sewing machine, no character at all, slow, skinny tires, etc. The big K was something else entirely. That bike had the most comfortable OEM seat I've ever had over 40+ years of riding, and with 165 hp, was a beast to ride, but in a good way. I've always thought the brick-engined K bikes were cool, and if I were to get one, it'd be a K100RS.
The R100RS I had:
(https://i.ibb.co/bMCXPX6T/20190106a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bMCXPX6T)
The K1200S I had:
(https://i.ibb.co/N2BvMzrW/FBM1f.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N2BvMzrW)
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Don’t work on finding the right bike…
Work on becoming the right rider.
If you knew me, you would know that is much too difficult :grin:
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If you knew me, you would know that is much too difficult :grin:
The best trip I ever did was on this.
(https://i.ibb.co/n8D8YR1q/IMG-2574.png) (https://ibb.co/n8D8YR1q)
The most excited I’ve ever been at getting a bike was this one
(https://i.ibb.co/ycBLFWRx/IMG-0012.png) (https://ibb.co/ycBLFWRx)
The one I would most like to get back is this one
(https://i.ibb.co/8DdCD1Fn/IMG-0715.png) (https://ibb.co/8DdCD1Fn)
The one I will never sell is this one
(https://i.ibb.co/R4ty0Mxv/IMG-2963.png) (https://ibb.co/R4ty0Mxv)
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Cool :thumb: