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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Error on December 29, 2025, 12:14:56 AM
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So over the riding season this year it become pretty clear that I was leaking oil or trans fluid into the clutch housing.
After riding for a while, a fluid stain could be seen between the seam of the clutch housing and the block. It never got to the point of having a drip, but still not a great thing to have going on in a dry clutch bike.
(https://i.ibb.co/fz5v7Knd/IMG-1602.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fz5v7Knd)
While I probably could have left this for another season or more, I couldn’t help myself and I started down the road of tearing it down once the bike was parked for the winter.
I decided to remove everything from the behind the block as one peice was the best move (I might be rethinking this now lol), and that I would crap the frame, leaving the lower rails and my center stand on to support the bike (again, thinking this was a bad move now).
Stripping the bike down was pretty strength forward. I now have it rigged up and “crabbed”.
(https://i.ibb.co/x8jRgLhh/IMG-1829.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x8jRgLhh)
Between kids, work, and life in general I expect it’ll be another week before I get any more progress on it, but thought I’d post up where I am. If anyone has any questions or advice feel free to post.
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It used to be that on small blocks, you would leave the engine and transmission, unbolt everything and roll the front half away on the front wheel. The rear wheel and swing arm ,engine and transmission are left on the center stand with a block under the front of the engine. That’s how I did it on a V65 and I don’t know about later bikes. It looks like you are almost ready to do that.
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You got it but how long did it take. Now you can do like the big blocks & just pull back what you need. I have a couple sawhorse type stands I put under frame so not to hang off ceiling.
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If there was that much oil coming out there the clutch would slip like crazy. Are you sure it isn’t leaking from above.
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He's gonna find out soon enough.
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You got it but how long did it take. Now you can do like the big blocks & just pull back what you need. I have a couple sawhorse type stands I put under frame so not to hang off ceiling.
Honestly not sure how long it took. I took my time to make sure everything was disconnected. Going very slow as this is the first time I have done this. Now that I am there, without interruption this might take a couple of hours to get to this point again.
If there was that much oil coming out there the clutch would slip like crazy. Are you sure it isn’t leaking from above.
Not from above. Pretty easy to check to see, just pull the starter and see if the clutch housing is dry or not. It a bit damp in there. Eventually it will contaminate the clutch, but it hasn't yet so better to address it now.
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It used to be that on small blocks, you would leave the engine and transmission, unbolt everything and roll the front half away on the front wheel. The rear wheel and swing arm ,engine and transmission are left on the center stand with a block under the front of the engine. That’s how I did it on a V65 and I don’t know about later bikes. It looks like you are almost ready to do that.
I've kind of of backed myself into a corner deciding to keep it on the center stand. I should have suspended the front and rear, then I could drop it however I wanted.
Now I'm going to have to leave the bock, pull everything behind it out, and pick it up and over the cross bar from the lower frame the center stand is on. Not impossible, but there would have been easier ways to do this if I had thought it through. The thought process was to try and leave as many seals as possible in place while addressing this one, but I think I've just made it all more difficult.
We will see how it plays out in a few days when i get a chance to actually do it.
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It looks like you have the frame suspended in the rear by something above. It's something strong tight? I have heard of pulling the entire drive line including engine the way it looks like your trying. Myself I would give up on that.
At the point your at, I would go for pulling the rear wheel, swingarm (with or without rear drive attached. Lighter and easier to work with if the drive is removed) and then get to the trans. You will also need to get it off the enterstand sice you need to work with the frame rails.
Do a search here or Google for how to get the trans out of the V7II and adapt the instructions as needed. It might also help to look up doing the same on a Tonti frame.
Good luck!
Tom
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At the point your at, I would go for pulling the rear wheel, swingarm (with or without rear drive attached. Lighter and easier to work with if the drive is removed) and then get to the trans. You will also need to get it off the enterstand sice you need to work with the frame rails.
Basically that’s the plan. I’m currently thinking I will pull it all as one unit, but if that becomes an issue I can pull it as sections as well.
What I’m trying to find information on now is the seal
Between the transmission and the clutch housing. Not sure if I can replace it from the housing side or not. If not I’ll have to separate the transmission and replace from the gear side, which I’d rather avoid if I can, I hate dealing with transmissions.
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Good morning 2026!
Got the rear yanked out after breakfast! For those looking, pretty simple, but I would have done it a bit differently the second time around. If anyone has questions about the process, just let me know and I’m happy to help.
Now on to diagnoses. The trans to clutch housing seal is done for sure. I’m wondering if the main seal is as well?
(https://i.ibb.co/6chjj5tZ/IMG-1842.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6chjj5tZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/qY76GFGz/IMG-1839.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qY76GFGz)
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The thinking is. Once your in that deep, change all the seals. If you don't, one will surely leak.
Clutch disc centering can be a bit fiddly without the tool. But it can be done. Put the clutch together, but just snug up the outer cover to lightly secure the friction plate. Then use a decreasing series of allen wrenches to measure the gap between the friction and the metal edge until even all the way around. Then secure the outer cover That will get it close enough.
JMO,
Tom
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The thinking is. Once your in that deep, change all the seals. If you don't, one will surely leak.
Clutch disc centering can be a bit fiddly without the tool. But it can be done. Put the clutch together, but just snug up the outer cover to lightly secure the friction plate. Then use a decreasing series of allen wrenches to measure the gap between the friction and the metal edge until even all the way around. Then secure the outer cover That will get it close enough.
JMO,
Tom
Funny enough, after looking around a bit today admittedly without removing the clutch, I think that the input shaft seal AND the main seal are leaking. For a bike with under 50k kms on it, I’m surprised. While I love this bike for what it is, I’m still surprised at how many seals and gaskets I’ve had to replace on this thing.
I think I’ve committed myself to buying the tools for
Both the input shaft and the clutch, just to make my life easy. However if anyone has them already and wants to lend them to me, I’m game!
I’ll update again when there is progress, but I suspect that may be a bit while I wait for parts and tools.
Happy new year y’all!
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Bit of an update for those who are reading.
After scratching my head a bit trying to verify tool part numbers for the shaft holder and nut tool for the V7ii, and trying to not scream at the pricing of them, local Guzzi Legend and absolute all round good guy Peter made me a tool to get after the nut.
With the entire back end still in one piece, I pushed the assembly back to have the tire against a wall, with a stack of wheels on the side to hold up the assembly against any rotational spin, I hit the input shaft nut with the air gun and the DIY tool, and it came off after a short fight.
With a good look at the seal without the nut in front of it, pretty clear its a big part of the issue. Ill order the new seal today, and then start looking at the best way to inspect and replace the main seal.
(https://i.ibb.co/HfqPVHmJ/nuttool.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HfqPVHmJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/pBCgjgFS/inputseal2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pBCgjgFS)
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Update time, and looking for some insight.
I pulled the clutch off, and Im looking at the main seal as I suspected an oil leak there as well.
Actually inspecting it, it doesn't actually look bad. The outer lip of the seal looks dry. What IS suspect, is this circular indented plug above the main seal inside the housing. Because of the spinning of the clutch assembly, its hard to tell where the actual oil is coming from. Is this all from the obvious leak on the transmission side, some from the main seal, or whatever this plug is? Ill note that the plug iself has part of the lip bashed in, you can see it in the photo.
I can't find any kind of part number or removal/install of this plug, does anyone have any insight into this actually leaking?
(https://i.ibb.co/tPHyzx3B/mainseal.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tPHyzx3B)
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For those still paying attention, seals came in And I swapped both the shaft seal and the main seal, and replaced the shaft nut. I also put a small amount of grease of the shaft splines. Interestingly the new shaft nut came with some kind of lock tight already applied to the threads, see pics below.
(https://i.ibb.co/21Y3sKcw/IMG-20260131-122932.jpg) (https://ibb.co/21Y3sKcw)
(https://i.ibb.co/hRh91w8G/IMG-20260131-130929.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hRh91w8G)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZpRcJZ5Q/IMG-20260131-140457.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZpRcJZ5Q)
From there I wrestled the rear back together with the block. Because of the way I left the rear as one peice, putting it all back together was a bit of a nightmare. If I was doing it again, I would be removing the swing arm.
Everything is back in the cradle and frame, and I jumped the gun a little and “un crabbed” the frame. Then had to lift it again when I realized I had missed reinstalling the sensor under the airbox/battery.
So now I’m walking through slowing getting it all back together with the proper torque settings. I managed to ruin one bolt for the frame cradle connection, so I’ll be replacing all 4, and maybe adding the small decorative plate from the racer at the same time.
If anyone has questions, fire away!
(https://i.ibb.co/Mx23rDLx/IMG-20260208-123536.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mx23rDLx)
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If it starts & don't leak, job well done. Looks good from hear. Way too clean, ha ha ha. Glad it all worked out.
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If it starts & don't leak, job well done. Looks good from hear. Way too clean, ha ha ha. Glad it all worked out.
I don’t know if it’s just mine, but I have been fighting leaks since I bought it.
Just about there!
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My V700 is only one I got that don't leak, I fixed it. If it doesn't bleed it's not alive.
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My V700 is only one I got that don't leak, I fixed it. If it doesn't bleed it's not alive.
How very Harley Davidson of you 😉
Leaks drive me nuts. The local dealer now know be name just from all the seals and gaskets I’ve ordered lol.
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Old British
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It’s odd that I never saw your original post. I typically follow these small block threads right away. It’s fun how these Guzzis big and small split apart. Just takes a little longer with the newer models because of all the wires and sensors, especially that stinking neutral sensor that has gotten a few of us!
What’s the story on the cam plug? Looks like maybe the previous owner had the motor apart and tried to get that bung out. I forget if you shared before, do you know the history of the bike?
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It’s odd that I never saw your original post. I typically follow these small block threads right away. It’s fun how these Guzzis big and small split apart. Just takes a little longer with the newer models because of all the wires and sensors, especially that stinking neutral sensor that has gotten a few of us!
What’s the story on the cam plug? Looks like maybe the previous owner had the motor apart and tried to get that bung out. I forget if you shared before, do you know the history of the bike?
You warned me about the sensor! It still got me both on the way out and on the way back in!
its the cam plug!?! I searched trying to find a part number for it, never found one. Its definitely suspect. Its very possible its got a small leak from there, hard to tell. I don't know the history of this bike, but I get the impression it had never been treated well before I got it. I'm not sure if this was built on a Friday afternoon and the factory said send it, or if someone has been in there hammering away on it before.
I have a botl I have to order today, as well as speak to my dealer about a hose clamp that has been packaged wrong from Piaggo, so we will see how that goes. In the meantime Im looking at ways to clean up the wiring on the bike a little and get everything back to spec. Ill post more when I have more!
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That's a Welch plug behind the cam. None of half dozen or more of the small blocks I've had apart have shown any sign of leaking there, but it's not unheard of with big blocks. Granted, the big blocks are often used harder & longer, but their solution is to smear a little silicone adhesive around the plug. Guys I know who work on these regularly do it as a matter of course, leaking or not. But then they usually replace the main engine seal as well as a matter of course - "if you can see it, replace it".
On the V7, Breva 750 & Nevada 750 the usual culprit for oil in the bellhousing is failure of the clutch push rod seal. This fails around 100,000km, allow gear oil to travel up the push rod onto the clutch cup, the clutch plate & all over the inside of the bell housing. The quick test if suspected is to remove the rubber (plastic) bung on RHS of the block (its a legacy from the days when you needed to access the teeth on the flywheel for timing), put a finger in & waggle it around. If it comes back wet, you have a leak. If it smells of gear oil, it's the clutch shaft seal, if it smells of engine oil, it's the main seal.
On small blocks, I always separate the frame from the engine - mainly because there's no bloody room, so it ends up easier. Rear wheel off, final drive off (it's heavy, & if it's still on & you let the swing arm drop, you risk breaking the gear linkage rod on the corner of the swingarm), swing arm off, then disconnect all the hoses, wires, sensors (usually missing one or two) before separating the lower frame rails from the upper frame & block so you can lift the frame off the the engine & wheel it away. I then remove the lower frame rails from the block & gearbox, which allows the engine plus gearbox to be carted off for degreasing & cleaning - there's usually loads of crud there on the rear of the gearbox - oil & dirt accumulated over the years & reluctant to move.
It's also a help having a clean rear end when getting it back together - gear lever assembly, clutch arm, neutral sensor go on better & do adjust the clutch at the bottom of the gearbox BEFORE replacing the swing arm while access is easy - otherwise there's only half an inch of awkwardness there.
At present, in the early stages of swapping out the engine from an NTX650 & replacing it with a 2014 V7 engine. Still a few hurdles to overcome, but so far, so good.
Hope this helps,
Mal
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Malik
In my case, certainly it was the shaft seal. On the V7ii, no window to check, so pulling the starter is the next easiest way to find a leak. In my case I could actually see the fluid starting to leak between the clutch housing and the block, then pulled the starter to verify.
Bikes mostly back together now so we will see what the housing looks like after some riding, if it’s still showing signs of a leak, I’ll go back at the plug. I’m rerouting some hoses and plugs in a way that I like better than what they were.
I’ll be servicing the brakes and replacing a few clamps. Interestingly Ive found MG has messed up a few of their part numbers on the clamps. I’ll post about that later.
Here’s how it’s currently sitting.
(https://i.ibb.co/gLBCq9cv/IMG-2150.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gLBCq9cv)
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For those still following along:
I replaced the rear pads, I’ll do the fronts soon as well. Going to EBC organic from EBC semi sintered. May have made an error with that choice, we will see.
I also reran both my vent hose, and replaced and re ran the overflow hose from the tank to both run down the same side of the bike and tuck behind the side panel and frame as much as possible. I ran the starter wire under the air box and relocated a few other wires to try and clean things up a bit. Running the Beetle Map means the 02 sensors are no longer active, so I removed them as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/W4XhnVJ2/IMG-2166.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W4XhnVJ2)
(https://i.ibb.co/fdM3Wb5Z/IMG-2167.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fdM3Wb5Z)
Still have to change the filter, add new oil and trans fluid, adjust the valves and swap the plugs. Then put it up on the stand and fire it up. Seeing if it runs and the clutch works I guess with be the real test here!
(https://i.ibb.co/8WcxRxZ/IMG-2164.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8WcxRxZ)
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Made good progress, nice work!!
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For everyone still playing at home, it runs!
On the center stand I fired it up, ran through first to third. Seems like it’s all working.
The only issue, my neutral light isn’t coming on.
I BELIVE that’s the sensor under the air box, correct? Strange as it worked when I pulled the bike apart, but I did end up getting it hung up during disassembly, which makes me wonder if I broke the wires on that little harness.
If I’m looking in the wrong place, someone sort me out. But of a nightmare to get back at that sensor.
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You guessed it, wiring should be a female spade onto a top hat post on sensor. On top of trans in center..
I used to use a long needle nose pliers.
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I’m not sure which neutral switch I’d rather have to revisit—a Guzzi small block’s or a BMW airhead’s (just recently swapped out my R80/7’s transmission, and found that you have to unbolt the transmission and rotate it in order to disconnect the switch off before pulling out the gearbox entirely). Both of them are mini ordeals.
Although, if Guzzisteve’s method works for *modern* small blocks (I have my doubts), then that would be less of an inconvenience.
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I think I can remove or push back the rear splash shield far enough to get it out. Still annoying, but not as bad as having to split the frame and cradle again.
One I get it out, I’ll check continuity, and maybe have to fix it. New ones look expensive.
Lessons learned I guess!
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The real question is who needs it. Ever see a car with one?
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The real question is who needs it. Ever see a car with one?
Last time I saw a non-automatic car with a sequential shift was about 50 years ago! Even then, the Zephyr IIRC, may not have been sequential with its steering wheel mounted stick shift.
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The neutral sensor on both my V7's (& the 750 Breva & Nevadas) is on the top of the rear of the gearbox on the RHS, just forward of the boot over the uni joint. It's accessible, if barely, and you can get get your hands in there, the main problem is looking at it at the same time. If it gets too frustrating, you might be best removing the rear end again, along with the swingarm. Plenty of access then. Often the connection is a blade, but some have a button on the top, with a connector that slides horizontally, front to rear, both have a boot over the connector.
If there's not enough wire out the back to move it around, you may have to loosen off the screws holding the airbox again and lever the airbox up to create clearance for the wire threaded through under there.
Soldier on,
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The neutral sensor on both my V7's (& the 750 Breva & Nevadas) is on the top of the rear of the gearbox on the RHS, just forward of the boot over the uni joint. It's accessible, if barely, and you can get get your hands in there, the main problem is looking at it at the same time. If it gets too frustrating, you might be best removing the rear end again, along with the swingarm. Plenty of access then. Often the connection is a blade, but some have a button on the top, with a connector that slides horizontally, front to rear, both have a boot over the connector.
If there's not enough wire out the back to move it around, you may have to loosen off the screws holding the airbox again and lever the airbox up to create clearance for the wire threaded through under there.
Soldier on,
Keep in mind the V7 II has a different transmission case due to the added 6th gear. Accessing the neutral switch might not be quite as easy, but I hope I’m proven wrong for posterity.
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Keep in mind the V7 II has a different transmission case due to the added 6th gear. Accessing the neutral switch might not be quite as easy, but I hope I’m proven wrong for posterity.
I managed to get it out.
Unbolt the rear splash guard, leave the bike on the center stand, jam your hand in the space, swear a bunch, and its out. Not nearly as bas as I was expecting.
Its just a "Button" type, gear position presses in the button and light comes on (or maybe reversed, not sure). But I pulled it out and tried pressing it, moving the wire to see if I could get the light to come on, and got nothing.
Currently I have one on order from AF1 rather than fuss with this one.
The real question is who needs it. Ever see a car with one?
Kind of of apples to oranges in my mind. Gear position can be felt and visually seen, even tested by moving the shifter left to right while in neutral in a car. On the bike, not so much. Most street bikes have had natural lights since the 60s or 70s. I expect if you ride outside of a city with no traffic lights most often, its not a big deal. But being able to get the visual "yes" so I can get off the clutch without having to do the up down foot hunt at a light is nice . Besides, why wouldn't you fix something that doesn't work?
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There is, from memory, in the Workshop Manual, Electrics section, the testing parameters for the Neutral Sensor. A bit technical. Had a thought - I think there is the connector at the front end under the seat, (?) do ensure that the connector is clean & plugged in. Just saying, just in case,
Occasionally the sensors are available from the wreckers, a small item not always listed in their parts list, worth double checking.
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There is, from memory, in the Workshop Manual, Electrics section, the testing parameters for the Neutral Sensor. A bit technical. Had a thought - I think there is the connector at the front end under the seat, (?) do ensure that the connector is clean & plugged in. Just saying, just in case,
Occasionally the sensors are available from the wreckers, a small item not always listed in their parts list, worth double checking.
I actually pulled the switch free, then cleaned and replugged it in hanging off the side of the bike, turned on the bike tried to get the light to come on. No dice.
Even after the warning from Dirk, I still managed to yank on it pretty hard several times when taking the bike apart, my guess is I’ve broken the wire internally. It would have been smart to check continuity before I ordered a new one, but AF1 had a short I wanted too so, you know…..
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Did you try moving trans w/back wheel? Just an idea. Maybe not in a good spot.
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Did you try moving trans w/back wheel? Just an idea. Maybe not in a good spot.
I’m not sure what you mean?
I’ve actually started the bike and ran through 1-3 on the center stand letting the wheel run freely. Seems to shift well, no issue. But no luck on the neutral light. It comes on when the bike fires up, so I know it’s not just the bulb.
Is that what you meant?
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It’s been almost 2 full pages, and I’m still waiting for the crabs to arrive. I was promised crabs.
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It’s been almost 2 full pages, and I’m still waiting for the crabs to arrive. I was promised crabs.
Look, I didn’t make up the name okay? If it was up to me, it would be called a “c lift” or “hinge frame” or
“Clamming” at the very worst. I still don’t get why it would be called “crabbing”.
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Crabbing is more common on the big blocks - you remove the rear wheel & swingarm, loosen off the lower frame rails & some other bits, undo the RHS lower frame rails (I think) so the engine is lopsided & access to the gearbox is improved, ( thus "crabbed"). On the small blocks this doesn't allow as much room for access, it's easier all around to separate the whole engine/gearbox assembly. The small block engine is easier to pick up & move around for cleaning & disassembly. I've an idea that balancing the swingarm on reassembly is also more straightforward on the smallblocks.
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Getting back to the neutral light and whether you need one.. I wonder how many false neutrals one can find on this 'box..
(https://i.ibb.co/cK9S0QCW/s-l1600.png) (https://ibb.co/cK9S0QCW)
[MG 500 Ercole tipper truck]
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It’s been almost 2 full pages, and I’m still waiting for the crabs to arrive. I was promised crabs.
Me too................ and let's talk about beer and sides.............. .
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Getting back to the neutral light and whether you need one.. I wonder how many false neutrals one can find on this 'box..
(https://i.ibb.co/cK9S0QCW/s-l1600.png) (https://ibb.co/cK9S0QCW)
[MG 500 Ercole tipper truck]
That’ll buff out, no worries. 😉