Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DougG on January 25, 2026, 04:11:22 PM
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Why do we buy a Guzzi? (And why does it own us?)
I have a theory, not a law, natural or otherwise…that’s different, just a theory. Here’s how it goes:
You start off as a mere mortal…logical, inquiring mind, relatively healthy body, clear soul. Then you see your first Guzzi ride by. The mind says, “What the heck is that?”, the body says, “I wonder how that feels?”, the soul is still clear and uninterested.
Then, you actually see one up close and personal (in a parking lot, dealership, friend’s house…wherever). The mind begins to dull, the body says, “I want to know how that feels”, the soul is still clear.
Then you sit on one. The mind is now completely out of the loop, the body says, “Yes!” and the soul is now awakened.
Then you ride one… (I refer to this as stage four, or terminal Guzzi-ism). The mind has long since left the building, the body is fully engaged, and the soul is captured…the look, the feel, the sensation.
That night and several thereafter, you have subliminal dreams, long forgotten endorphins begin flowing and the next thing you know you’re looking at your bank account, credit rating, investments, space in the garage…the kid’s inheritance.
OK, we all know what happens next…
So here’s my theory; it’s not mind control, not body control…it’s soul control! Sure, they have engineers who design the bikes, assemblers who make them, test riders who do their thing, but the real money makers at Guzzi are the “soul controllers.”
They have us by the soul…we are powerless to resist.
Be well,
DougG
P.S. They got mine, for sure.
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I used to work in more than a few Guzzi/BMW shops. My boss's used to have me tell the customers why I rode a Guzzi. It's like this " Do you want a 1/4 of a V8 or a 1/2 a Volkswagen" The Guzzi motor reacts to tuning exactly like a V8. It just makes sense for a gearhead to ride one.
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I get asked from time to time why I ride these old Guzzis when I’ve got newer, more modern bikes sitting in the shop.
Logically, it’s a fair question.
They aren’t fast.
They’re not the most comfortable.
Fuel mileage isn’t great.
Handling isn’t class-leading.
I rode my ’03 all the way out to the Washington National MGNOC in ’24 and it did just fine—but nobody would confuse it with the “best” tool for the job.
They’re also affordable. Cheap on the used market, really. Parts are available, and they’re easy to work on. No black magic. No laptop required. If you’re willing to turn a wrench, they’ll meet you halfway.
So why ride one?
My honest answer is usually, “I don’t know. I just like them.”
The more I think about it, the more I realize it isn’t one thing—it’s all the little things people complain about. The light, almost loose feeling. The motor talking to you with its ticks and pulses. That exhaust note that makes me smile every time. The way it kicks sideways when you hit the starter or blip the throttle at a stop.
Even the weird stuff—the heel-toe shifter, the brake pedal with the heel knob. The things that make it imperfect to most folks are exactly what draw me in. If you smoothed all that out and fixed everything people don’t like, I’m not sure I’d like the bike anymore.
There’s no single feature that makes an old Guzzi special. It’s the sum of the imperfections that makes it fun. Endearing, even.
My dad probably said it best:
If you’ve got something that puts a smile on your face, you should keep it—because that’s valuable, and hard to find.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/50th-MGNOC-John-day-Oregon/Raton-Nm-to-Flaming-Gorge-Ut/i-8VWJChp/0/Kdcq6jXrM9CNXrDfNgFH9NzCNwbdshkxNmZvgB76d/L/IMG_0849-L.jpg)
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Years ago Gordon from MG Cycle told me that they were organic,makes sense to me.The fellowship of owners and rallies are icing on a great cake.
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There are probably a thousand other reasons, but speaking intellectually,
For me, a Moto Guzzi is an air-cooled shaft Drive motorcycle.
That's what I wrote exclusively for years with my Yamaha XS 1100 and 750 motorcycles. From 2000 to 2015 I was stuck on water cooled in line four Japanese motorcycles like the zg1000, fz1, and fjr 1300. All great, But they were so refined they felt like appliances. Not wanting to deal with a Harley or BMW, I really thought I was stuck with water cooled bikes for the rest of my riding life. Even though the fjr was a brilliant powerful beast of a motorcycle, it did nothing for me and after 8 years and 60,000 MI I just had no desire to ride it. While I did spend nine out of the 12 months of 2015 in Afghanistan, when I came back I only Rode 500 mi the rest of the year. I really thought I was finished riding and that I had grown older and had changed.
Then in 2015 with a visit to Moto International, Dave Richardson introduced me to the GRiSO 1100 and my passion for riding was reinvigorated in less than 500 ft. For me there is something honest and real about a Guzzi..... That's why I buy the them, ride them and love them.
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Maybe I’m just different….I ride a Guzzi because I wanted a shaft drive bike for the winter. I didn’t want a BMW. Yamahas don’t move me to buy them…and frankly neither do Hondas. Cruisers do zero for me either. That doesn’t leave a whole lot to look at.
My tastes lean heavily towards Italian bikes. There were 3 Ducatis and an Aprilia in my garage when I brought home my Norge. Not gonna lie; I’ve always admired the Moto Guzzi Sport 1100i and Daytonas.
I find the Norge comfortable. Very comfortable. The heated grips are a game changer along with shaft drive that to me, make it the perfect winter commute bike. That I can also tour on it is a bonus in my mind.
I ride a Guzzi because the Norge is practical, comfortable and does what I want it to do. Not for any other reason.
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I used to work in more than a few Guzzi/BMW shops. My boss's used to have me tell the customers why I rode a Guzzi. It's like this " Do you want a 1/4 of a V8 or a 1/2 a Volkswagen" The Guzzi motor reacts to tuning exactly like a V8. It just makes sense for a gearhead to ride one.
The V8 correlation was a big part of my early transition into Moto Guzzi and it remains relevant. Bevel Ducatis require a certain unique set of skills, knowledge and tools. Japanese bikes have a range of their own “building a better mousetrap” specifics. Older HD are very simple but they’re not a V8 car platform. After years of doing cars, my V7 Sport required very little new thinking compared to other motorcycles. Since then, nothing has rivaled my Guzzi.
Now I just like them, at least the old round head bikes. Everything after that becomes increasingly foreign to me. Never got into the outlier “something no one else has” mindset that many tangent to the marque seem to enjoy & cultivate. Too many of those self-identified aficionados are happy to poo-poo on my imperfect bikes that should be brought up to their standards. Life is too short for that stuff.
An old Guzzi is a great machine.
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"It’s the sum of the imperfections that makes it fun. Endearing, even.
My dad probably said it best:
If you’ve got something that puts a smile on your face, you should keep it—because that’s valuable, and hard to find."
You're dad is a wise man!
Imperfections are what make us unique, and what make us human.
For instance, let's say AI can generate a "perfect" musical tone. It can
play music - composed by humans - pretty well. But what would you rather listen
to: soulless AI-generated crap, or old Louis Armstrong and Rafael Mendez records?
That's kinda the way older bikes are. Are they "perfect?" Or are they something
you want to ride? Do you want slick quick shifting with no vibration from the machine?
Or do ya want the intellectual AND visceral satisfaction of operating the brakes, throttle,
and gearbox beautifully yourself through that set of bends?
-Stretch
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A Guzzi requires a certain amount of involvement from the rider. One doesn't 'Ride" the motorcycle, one needs to partner with it.
SO many motorcycles are like an appliance. They do whatever the riders commands. A Guzzi, when the rider partners with it, will gracefully work with the rider.
Sort of like a great dance partner. A Guzzi reminds you that THIS gear is proper now. THIS is where I (the bike) wants the rpm's.
It's exactly what some new owners do not understand when they first get a Guzzi. We see it here often. "My bike shudders (or some such thing) at 3K in top gear. What's wrong?" Nothing. Listen to the bike and ride it like it wants to be ridden.
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All of the above and I really love parking it next to a line of Harleys at the local hang out.
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I blindly fell in love with the Moto Guzzi brand in the in the Summer of 1978. I needed transportation.
My grandfather recently bought a 1977 Moto Guzzi Convert with an Vetter fairing and I bought it from him.
I knew next to nothing of the brand but was reading several monthly motorcycle magazines each month. Rarely was the Moto Guzzi brand mentioned, let alone featured.
I was 17 years old and absolutely loving that Convert. For about the next 35 years, I rode 9 other Moto Guzzis as well.
I never test rode a single Guzzi. I just did my best to love on them because for me, the brand was my first love.
Plus, I hate group think and/or herd mentality. For me, the Guzzi is a brand is for an individual. It’s different by design, which I also love.
I was without a Moto Guzzi for about 10 years while I greatly enjoyed another non herd brand, Victory Motorcycles. Now, I have my greatly enhanced 2013 Victory Hard-Ball and my new to me 1,600 mile 2016 Eldorado. IMHO, the two best V-Twin motorcycles ever produced.
I bought my first Victory just as the 1400 line came out. It was absolutely the right decision. Once I saw the Eldorado version, I knew I’d have one some day. To me, the Eldorado is the pinnacle of the 1400 line. It’s the only Guzzi I ever even considered in that 10 year absence from the Moto Guzzi brand.
And, yes, I’m doing what I can to greatly enhance my Eldorado, Bella.
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I suspect that some of the Moto Guzzi appeal is the engine vibration frequency.
Similar to the purring of a cat, some frequencies are naturally soothing.
Not all that different for Harley riders.
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I came from the sports car world, and early in life got connected with Italian engineering and design and became very comfortable with it. Due to that I have Italian cars and firearms so having Italian bikes was almost natural. With the cars I have owned everything from 2 cylinder Fiats to 12 cylinder Ferrari's, but I enjoy 1960's to 1980's Alfa Romeo's the best. Not the cheapest or the most expensive, not the most powerful or the least, not the best or worst in any category, but really the best all around and the most fun. And if a Ducati equals a Ferrari than the equivalent to an Alfa Romeo is a Moto Guzzi.
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Because a new 850 Norton in 1974 left me stranded all over western North America. My dealer had an 1975 850 T in stock and an 850T is all I've ridden to this day and find no need to change.
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Because a new 850 Norton in 1974 left me stranded all over western North America. My dealer had an 1975 850 T in stock and an 850T is all I've ridden to this day and find no need to change.
You sir, have won the motorcycle lottery. Well done, well done indeed.
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Why do we buy a Guzzi? (And why does it own us?)
I have a theory, not a law, natural or otherwise…that’s different, just a theory. Here’s how it goes:
You start off as a mere mortal…logical, inquiring mind, relatively healthy body, clear soul. Then you see your first Guzzi ride by. The mind says, “What the heck is that?”, the body says, “I wonder how that feels?”, the soul is still clear and uninterested.
Then, you actually see one up close and personal (in a parking lot, dealership, friend’s house…wherever). The mind begins to dull, the body says, “I want to know how that feels”, the soul is still clear.
Then you sit on one. The mind is now completely out of the loop, the body says, “Yes!” and the soul is now awakened.
Then you ride one… (I refer to this as stage four, or terminal Guzzi-ism). The mind has long since left the building, the body is fully engaged, and the soul is captured…the look, the feel, the sensation.
That night and several thereafter, you have subliminal dreams, long forgotten endorphins begin flowing and the next thing you know you’re looking at your bank account, credit rating, investments, space in the garage…the kid’s inheritance.
OK, we all know what happens next…
So here’s my theory; it’s not mind control, not body control…it’s soul control! Sure, they have engineers who design the bikes, assemblers who make them, test riders who do their thing, but the real money makers at Guzzi are the “soul controllers.”
They have us by the soul…we are powerless to resist.
Be well,
DougG
P.S. They got mine, for sure.
Stockholm Syndrome?
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I think the only valid reasons to buy any motorcycle are the ones each of us have, and what others think really should not matter. Personally, I lacked emotional reasons to pick the Roamer - it was the bike that best suited my needs for the price I was prepared to pay.
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I have no particular affinity for Italian machinery though I owned three successive Ducatis (851, 916, 996) some years ago. I bought a Guzzi last year simply because I had never owned (or even sat on one). I decided I should try one (as I did a Harley Wide Glide for the same reason) and just sell it soon after if I didn't like it (as I did with the Harley a few months after buying it). BUT I really like the 850 V7 Special and it's now the favorite of my motorcycles - the most fun to ride on the twisty back roads we enjoy! TBF, my '76 Honda CB400F is a very close 2nd favorite!! As the old saying goes, "opposites attract!" and the two are truly opposites!! :thumb:
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We miss our red Honda 400 ,but the last 4 Guzzis make up for it.
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To each their own. I can't imagine ever owning a motorcycle that didn't fill me with emotion. Why have it if it doesn't? That's rhetorical-I understand why.
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To each their own. I can't imagine ever owning a motorcycle that didn't fill me with emotion. Why have it if it doesn't? That's rhetorical-I understand why.
That a bike perform the way I like will, at least to me, invoke good emotions. As would good looks, ease of maintenance, reliability. So perhaps my choice of wording was not precise enough - what I meant was that functionality - in the broadest sense of the word - is the most important aspect to me when buying a motorcycle. And if the thing does not annoy me, it will give pleasing emotions.
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I get it. 100%. We're all different. My experience is 180 degrees away. Younger me-the bike was a tool. Didn't matter as long as the job was done without issues.
Now, I'm still for not having issues, but the bike matters to the degree that every other brand I had was sold and only Guzzi motorcycles were left.
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Maybe not necessarily the brand but the configuration. I do all my own work and I was dreading valve adjustment on my Triumph and V100. Also the V100 too much high tech for me to use comfortably let alone need. One of the main reasons I went to a V7 850. I loved my V7lll but the 850 seemed to me to be more suited to my needs especially cruise control due to my messed up right hand. Air cooled and valves can be done in under an hour including a beer break. :azn:
kk
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I used to dread valve adjustments myself on many bikes, especially with shim-under-bucket systems like found on my KZ650 and CB400SF. However, I have learned that valves rarely need adjusting these days. Engines like the Honda 52-dgree V-twins (500, 600, 650 and 750s) will typically go well beyond 50k miles without requiring adjustment. My son's MT-07 is scheduled for checking the clearances every 26k miles, but you can usually just forget them "forever". Checking them, not to mention adjusting them, is a massiv PITA, however, being buried deep inside the chassis and also featuring shim-under-buckets.
On my V9, closing in on 12k miles, I have yet to check the valve clearances. I will do so this spring before I put it up for sale, otherwise I would not have bothered as there is no sign of them being off. The engine is still on the original spark plugs, which have never been out. Will be interesting to see what the valve clearances actually are, and how the spark plugs fare - they will be replaced anyway, but I see no reason why they should not last 25k.
Easiest bike ever, in my experience, to set the valve clearances on was my CX500, which make the V9 procedure seem very elaborate in comparison. Better still would be bikes like the Honda Nighthawk 700 and Shadow 700, to name just a couple that have hydraulig valve lifters that never need attention.
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I have a Guzzi who’s valves haven’t been checked in over 70,000 mile. It just keeps going without adjustment. Who knows how far it will go. :bike-037: :evil:
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The most important thing for me is the motorcycle has to "catch my eye." I don't care how "good" a motorcycle is function-wise, if I don't find myself standing back and thinking, "that's a good-looking bike," I'm not interested. Obviously we all have a different idea of "attractive," but the "look" of my blue '21 V7 Special was the reason I actually decided to buy a Moto Guzzi. THEN, it turned out that I found for me that it was a great motorcycle.
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Why? Great looking and performing motorcycles.
(https://i.ibb.co/Z6LW1JxC/IMG-0898.jpg)
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Why? Great looking and performing motorcycles.
(https://i.ibb.co/Z6LW1JxC/IMG-0898.jpg)
Perfect example exhibited in this photo! (Thanks, blackcat!) :thumb: :boozing: :cool: :wink:
WHY?
* They are different...
* They are quirky...
* They look good...sound great...handle well...and are very reliable!! :thumb:
* They have a dedicated and fiercely loyal fan base...
* Best of all...they are ITALIAN! :wink: :thumb: :cool:[/i]
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I found Greg Field's Moto Guzzi Big Twins book and saw the 1973 V7 Sport on the cover. That was it for me.
(https://i.ibb.co/C3d1QsMs/field.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C3d1QsMs)
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this is why I bought Guzzi. Sadly they've lost the plot during the last couple decades of the Piaggio regime.
(https://i.ibb.co/hJsZ9VFb/BQv3v-Equ0fm-HUb5-BLa-Rp-IA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hJsZ9VFb)
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I always remember the first time I saw a Le Mans in the flesh back in the late 70's in Italy, I immediately wanted one.
Of course back then, still in High School it was way out of my reach so I started with more affordable, smaller bikes, quickly progressing to larger, faster bikes and ultimately developing a penchant for Ducatis but I never lost that desire for a Guzzi.
Then, many years later an old family friend in Italy was selling off his collection of Italian bikes (I'd have liked to buy the entire collection but needed to be realistic :sad: ), consisting of mainly Ducatis but also a couple of Guzzis, including a 1979 Le Mans II that he had owned from new so I flew over to Italy and bought it.
I'm not really looking for any more bikes at the moment as I've got too much going on with other projects for now but, despite having never ridden a modern Guzzi, I do have a strange hankering for a Griso so - watch this space...
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I notice a lot of Norton owners also have a Guzzi. The Norton is a sprinter that breaks down frequently. The Guzzi is a long distance runner that rarely ever fails no matter how hard you thrash it. Its never left me at the side of the road unlike my Norton. Someone mentioned V8s. My 850 LeMans with its Rennsport exhaust sounds like a small block Chevy at the drags. I never tire of the sound.
Pete
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My first street bike was a '70s UJM. I stuck with 70s UJMs until a decade ago (and still own that one).
The V7 just "hit right"... and I fell in love with it the second I laid eyes on it.
It ticks all my boxes, it does everything I want it to do as well as I need it to do them. I've done weeks long motocamping trips in all weather, commuting in city and rural areas, fireroads and cutlines, mud, gravel and dirt. It's light, simple, and it works for me.
I don't know of another modern bike that tickles my fancy like it does. Simple.
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I grew up on the bottom of a long winding hill road and my then girlfriend lived down the street, her father was a big BMW Airhead fan and we were standing outside her house looking at my girlfriend's then new Airhead that her father bought for her 16 year old birthday (I think she rode it once or twice) when we heard a rumbling twin coming down that hill and at first I assumed it was a HD. This was about 1970 and the bike looked new so I assume it was either a 69 or 70 black Ambassador. I had no idea what it was but my girlfriends dad blurted out Moto Guzzi! I didn't own one for many years later but always thought they were cool bikes.
This was the photo from one of Mick Walker's books that made me want a 1000S:
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/622004619_5223235174567490_3321623813168692503_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=S9IgRWIk1awQ7kNvwG16OIw&_nc_oc=AdkNXzg5AjrCYKHhWoJYnsXKEM7AtQlTLJWKyrER6NMsGlgOA04a99TZ_dLgD7wP2wQ&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&_nc_gid=8T_xHLl4QficRDYxkgegpA&oh=00_Afo8mjK_rhi8F1xOyqkHZxtoi9zyROjsHVpil-kzwNySZw&oe=697ECF05)
Walker notes in his book that the photo was taken on “Douglas Promonade, Isle of Man in June of 1993”
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I came from the world of trials, dirt bikes in my teenage years, and then on the road I owned lightweight Yamaha singles with a lot of character...SRX600 and SZR660. They are not to everyone's taste. When it was time to decide what I REALLY wanted a bike for, which was all round use with an emphasis on a neutral riding position for touring solo....these were in the mix;
Breva 750ie
BMW R850
BMW F800S
Kawasaki W650
Kawasaki wouldn't do test rides so that was out. The BMWs were too tall for me. I didn't want a four. The Triples of the time (2003) were too heavy with high centre of gravity. Muz 660 Touring was as rare as hens teeth. I went for a test ride on a Breva from InMoto in South London and just loved it - the sound feel, vibes, and the way it handled. So I came back from the test ride and said "I'll have one of them!". Got hard luggage fitted from the dealer, and a centrestand.....and I rode a Breva from March 2004 to....well now. Still riding one, as well as having a V7 850 Sport. :grin:
PS - "The Perfect Vehicle" had a pretty big influence back then too. Fell in love the Story Of Guzzi........tiltin g at windmills...somethi ng I have always admired.
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Taste in "appearance" varies dramatically. One person's "good looking motorcycle" is another's "no way I'd buy that!" As James T Kirk once said, "There's no accounting for taste!" ;)
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A Guzzi requires a certain amount of involvement from the rider. One doesn't 'Ride" the motorcycle, one needs to partner with it.
SO many motorcycles are like an appliance. They do whatever the riders commands. A Guzzi, when the rider partners with it, will gracefully work with the rider.
Sort of like a great dance partner. A Guzzi reminds you that THIS gear is proper now. THIS is where I (the bike) wants the rpm's.
It's exactly what some new owners do not understand when they first get a Guzzi. We see it here often. "My bike shudders (or some such thing) at 3K in top gear. What's wrong?" Nothing. Listen to the bike and ride it like it wants to be ridden.
I agree with that and I’ll add that while Guzzi’s are not fast, they oftentimes can be ridden faster than others.
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I used to dread valve adjustments myself on many bikes, especially with shim-under-bucket systems like found on my KZ650 and CB400SF. However, I have learned that valves rarely need adjusting these days. Engines like the Honda 52-dgree V-twins (500, 600, 650 and 750s) will typically go well beyond 50k miles without requiring adjustment. My son's MT-07 is scheduled for checking the clearances every 26k miles, but you can usually just forget them "forever". Checking them, not to mention adjusting them, is a massiv PITA, however, being buried deep inside the chassis and also featuring shim-under-buckets.
On my V9, closing in on 12k miles, I have yet to check the valve clearances. I will do so this spring before I put it up for sale, otherwise I would not have bothered as there is no sign of them being off. The engine is still on the original spark plugs, which have never been out. Will be interesting to see what the valve clearances actually are, and how the spark plugs fare - they will be replaced anyway, but I see no reason why they should not last 25k.
Easiest bike ever, in my experience, to set the valve clearances on was my CX500, which make the V9 procedure seem very elaborate in comparison. Better still would be bikes like the Honda Nighthawk 700 and Shadow 700, to name just a couple that have hydraulig valve lifters that never need attention.
This post is why I only buy new :evil:
Well...... For cars anyway..... It IS why unless I'm getting the vehicle for the price of a bag of chips, I want assurance it has been properly serviced.
NFN, but this answers many of your claimed issues. Clearances CLOSE on these motors, especially at the initial and first adjustments and settle in at the 18-20k with little movement afterward aas long as you are regular on a proper OCI.
Plugs are less critical, but do make a difference in engine smoothness and response. R&R of the plugs every valve adjust helps keep any corrosion from the threads. Nothing worse than having the aluminum threads strip out with your spark plug if it's been sitting there too long and corroding (possibly).
I'm going to venture a guess that your valves are whisper quiet without a tap tap tap. This means they're too tight. You've probably not done any permanent damage to the motor, but it's definitely not running As well as it should or could if you've never touched the valves.
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To each their own. I can't imagine ever owning a motorcycle that didn't fill me with emotion. Why have it if it doesn't? That's rhetorical-I understand why.
For me it's not about "emotion" but perhaps I'm just a cold dead soldier inside.... There is however a visceral feel that is intangible and unexplainable, but speaks to me and connects at an inner level. Without it no vehicle will stay in my paddock long. It's why I've had my XS 1100 since 1984, why I drove my Jeeps for 10 to 12 years, and why my Porsche cars will never leave my garage and will be bequeathed in my will. Last month, a little hussy by the name of the Ford Raptor Ranger almost wooed me away from my Toyota Tundra, that truck too is one that provides immediate connection and satisfaction.
It's that feeling the GRiSO triggered. I rode what was arguably the Pinnacle of Sport Touring Motorcycling to the dealer, encountered the GRiSO and did not look back . Unless I was riding the FJR at go to jail or the morgue speeds, it was mind numbing and soul sucking. 500 feet on the GRiSO woke me up, and I've remained awake. It pulled me away from the spec sheets and the reviews and engaged me at a deep level. I don't know if it's an emotion, but it brought tremendous satisfaction. Even though it is the least ridden of my little collection mileage wise due to lack of luggage, etc,, it is still my most favorite.
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this is why I bought Guzzi. Sadly they've lost the plot during the last couple decades of the Piaggio regime.
(https://i.ibb.co/hJsZ9VFb/BQv3v-Equ0fm-HUb5-BLa-Rp-IA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hJsZ9VFb)
I think I understand what you mean. But, racing breaks financing.
Look at Polaris Indian with their Bagger Racing. Great fun to watch but without any possibility of paying off with bike sales.
Polaris made the exact same mistakes with Indian they did with Victory.
They built a better bike to compete with Harley and too few people cared.
If Piaggio goes racing with Moto Guzzi, the end of Moto Guzzi could quickly be at hand.
What should Piaggio do with Moto Guzzi?
I really don’t know. There isn’t a new Moto Guzzi I’d buy so I’m in no position to tell them what to do.
The last bike they made that I loved, I bought. An all black Eldorado 1400. Sadly, they apparently sold quite poorly.
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Why? Great looking and performing motorcycles.
(https://i.ibb.co/Z6LW1JxC/IMG-0898.jpg)
That bike is so good looking. Not sure I could handle the long reach to the bars, but what a smokin’ design.
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I'm going to venture a guess that your valves are whisper quiet without a tap tap tap. This means they're too tight. You've probably not done any permanent damage to the motor, but it's definitely not running As well as it should or could if you've never touched the valves.
They make just the right kind of noises for my ears, same as they made at 2.5k miles. If they went silent, I would check them ASAP. Same if starting or idle changed.
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I ride with earplugs - always have - though on very short rides I sometimes don't. I have found that when I ride my V7 without earplugs my impression is the engine is coming apart! ;)
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For me it's not about "emotion" but perhaps I'm just a cold dead soldier inside.... There is however a visceral feel that is intangible and unexplainable, but speaks to me and connects at an inner level.
Just so we're clear... that's the emotion we all talk about.
it's ok. It's ok to have emotions about things, I promise.
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Why Guzzi's? Vtwin to start with then.....
I can't afford all the expensive BMW clothing and gear and so I just wouldn't fit in.
The last time I rode with a group of Harley's it felt like I was in a cheap hollywood movie.
Have owned a couple of twin Triumphs so for something different....
Guzzi.....No rules no costumes no shiny doo dads for me.
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This is a Good Thread and I usually dont say very much.
Approaching my mid 60's, I have been riding ... like everybody here ... since I was 14. Mini bikes, dirt bikes and then onto street bikes. Racers, cruisers, muscle, touring. Still have most of them in the garage. Back in 2013 I saw an ad that featured the green Griso parked on the side of the road. Wow, did that bike catch my eye. I thought it was the absolute coolest looking bike I had ever seen. Just from that picture. I knew of Guzzi's but never thought they were that great looking, but that Griso just blew me away.
Went to the closest dealer .. AJ Cycles and took out the black devil for a ride and then paid him for it that day. Still one of the sweetest bikes I've ever ridden ... or still ride.
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Because I am a luddite who believes that an air-cooled two valve motor with screw tappet adjusters is all you need for street riding. Everything else is just unnecessary complication that detracts from the enjoyment of DIY maintenance. Not enough power? Increase the displacement, no need for more valves or liquid cooling. And I can't use any more than 65 hp or so anyway for the type of riding I do. My air cooled Ducati makes 85 and if I wind it up I am going lose-my-license speeds before I shift into third. It's also bloody uncomfortable. As far as I can tell, Moto Guzzi is the only manufacturer left making easily maintained air cooled bikes with the amount of power I need and want, and an all-day comfortable riding position. My RE Interceptor was close conceptually, but not quite enough power, and extremely uncomfortable no matter what seat I put on it (I tried 4). I guess a BMW R9T might also be close to what I like, but $$$. The V7 is just the sweet spot for me, and if I got serious about touring, the V85 would fit the bill perfectly.
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"I guess a BMW R9T might also be close to what I like, but $$$"
I find my R9T quite UNcomfortable after about an hour. My 850 V7 is the most comfortable bike I own. One would expect my BMW R1200RS to be more comfortable than the V7 but it isn't. My '73 Norton Commando is quite comfortable as well. I find I have always preferred a seat that I can easily move about and change my position while riding. I have never owned a bike with a "sculpted" seat - like most sport bikes (and I've owned a LOT of them) - that was comfortable for extended time in the saddle. I rode my Ducati 996 for four hours from out on Long Island up to Lake Placid and could barely move when I got off the bike...and I was MUCH younger then! Funnily enough, I tracked that bike almost every weekend and never felt uncomfortable on it! ;)
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I have told this story before but it fits here so I will do it again. In 1968 I was going to be inducted into the Army in the fall. Not drafted but not my choice, used up my deferment. Any way I had a couple of months before I went so I bought a used R50/2. After a few months laater I wound up in Denver at my semi permanent duty station which actually became my only. I had the Beemer shipped out to me. I soon found out that it was not suited for the altitude and high passes. I test rode an Ambassador and an R75/5. I decided the BMW would be the better bike for me so I bought the demo which was the first on in Denver. Anyway I had never forgotten the Guzzi.
Fast forward to 2017 when I lived near Reno. I was in town one day when I was looking for a new tank bag for my Harley. I was visiting all the bike shops when I pulled into one and saw a V7 parked in the lot. I waited for the owner to appear which when he did the first thing out of my mouth was "where did you get that bike." He was taken aback at first but then after I introduced myself we had a nice talk when he told me about a small dealership in the south part of town. I immediately went to visit the store. The rest is history but it was a couple of years before I finally owned one, an Audace and as of now several more. Currently a V7 850 and a semi basket case T3 which is under a slow rebuild due to experiencing numerous stumbling blocks. I just found the solution to the latest in Guzziology.
kk
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Just so we're clear... that's the emotion we all talk about.
it's ok. It's ok to have emotions about things, I promise.
If course it's ok, but they are not necessarily the same.
Not making a direct correlation or comparison of course, but for example..... You know that sense of satisfaction that floods you after you take a good dump? Would you call that an emotion? Or would you call that a feeling and sensation? That's what I'm talking about. Or that sensation you feel when you eat your favorite food,. The sense of satisfaction you feel from taking a great dump, eat your favorite food, visit your childhood haunts, could very well trigger an emotional response such as Joy or happiness. I could go on......Bottom line: A sense of satisfaction is generally not the same as a raw emotion (like fear, joy, or anger), but a more cognitive state of contentment or fulfillment. That sense can obviously trigger and lead to an emotions.
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Bit more recent of a story. I didn't get my motorcycle license, or learn to ride a motorcycle, until 2 years ago for my 60th birthday. As I was anticipating my class I was spending time looking at used bikes on Marketplace when I saw an ad on Facebook for AF! and Moto Guzzi. I had always liked the brand visually as a kid in the 70s and early 80s so I figured I would check them out even though I was sure a new Italian bike was out of my price range. I was shocked at what (leftover) '23s were going for (cheap) so that weekend my partner and I went down and I fell in love with a '23 Special in white w/ red stripe.
Shortly after that we got my partner a Royal Enfield (what I had been leaning towards before I found the Guzzi) which we thoroughly enjoyed but unfortunately was totaled in an accident last April. With the insurance money from that I bought Fat Bob's Norge off of here and after riding it down to Texas from Wyoming I decided that I had no reason to buy a bike with a chain and hard to reach valves again.
My partner had test ridden and fallen in love with the V85s so as soon as she is in shape to get back on a bike, we'll most likely be picking one up for her/us.
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Why do I ride Guzzis? Why do I like motorcycles? Equally tough questions. I could give you all the reasons - easy maintenance, durability, quality, simplicity, aesthetics, etc - but in the end, the question still isn't answered. Your wife/mate/girlfriend/significant other isn't perfect but you love her. Can you answer why? It's not perfect, but it works for me and without it there would be a big aching hole in my life.
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I suspect that some of the Moto Guzzi appeal is the engine vibration frequency.
Similar to the purring of a cat, some frequencies are naturally soothing.
Not all that different for Harley riders.
The appeal is the engine vibration frequency, plus the big block torque curve, plus the sound. Soothing, fun, mood lifting.
(The exact opposite of an inline 4)
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You could say one Guzzi is almost too many and one more is not quite enough. I bought a used ‘71 Ambassador in ‘77 . The more I rode it, the more I liked it so when I found another I bought it. I’m down to three now after a high of about eight. I keep looking and have to remember that I don’t have the room and time for a Griso….
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WOW! I'm so glad that I started this post. You folks touched ALL the bases...and then some!
Keep up the great life experiences.
Be well,
DougG
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You could say one Guzzi is almost too many and one more is not quite enough. I bought a used ‘71 Ambassador in ‘77 . The more I rode it, the more I liked it so when I found another I bought it. I’m down to three now after a high of about eight. I keep looking and have to remember that I don’t have the room and time for a Griso….
Surely the goodness you can make room for a little ole Grisso :evil:
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Or, maybe it's akin to why a standard sports car is always more fun than an automatic. Being involved........... ......
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The only reason I bought mine was because it was a cheap mechanic special. The bike definitely grew on my though once I got the TPS sorted out. If I ever got rid of my California I would replace it with a v85.
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As one of Australia's greatest lawyers said in the High Court some years ago, "its just the vibe. The whole thing. The vibe".
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I saw that goofy Australian movie with the vibe argument.When I was practicing I thought about filing a motion to change the facts as the case was unsporting in its present posture.
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I think my old Sport 1200 is close to the greatest motorcycle engine I've every experienced, character wise. My 1100 Griso was essentially the same engine, but the 1200 had just a smidgen more of a polished feel. My V7 is nice but a far cry from the bigger engines. Not to start a big debate, but I feel something was lost in the V7's. I've had two ('14 & '17), and they both lacked the midrange I thought they should have. Yes of course less displacement, but they don't (to me) feel like the little brother of the big blocks, they feel like something else.
Last summer I bought a 1200 Sportster Custom on a bit of a whim, and the amazing character of that engine caught me off guard. I was never into Harley's. I wasn't a hater, but had no interest in them. But the the Sportster gives me a grin every time I get on it. I find it a much better all-rounder than my V7. The Sportster has the bigger tank so I might even tour it a bit this summer.
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Last summer I bought a 1200 Sportster Custom on a bit of a whim, and the amazing character of that engine caught me off guard. I was never into Harley's. I wasn't a hater, but had no interest in them. But the the Sportster gives me a grin every time I get on it. I find it a much better all-rounder than my V7. It has the bigger tank so I might even tour it a bit this summer.
Sportsters are great. I've owned two.
I got lost in your sentence structure. Guzzi should have the edge on range. My 2014 V7 Classic would go forever on a tank of fuel. 250-miles on several trips.
The 1200C has a 4.5 gallon tank. The 08-12 V7 Classics have a 4.5 gallon tank. The 13-up V7 Classics have a 5.5 gallon tank. HD and Guzzi get about the same fuel economy. The Sportster 1200C has good range, but the V7 Classic's is better. The extra rear suspension travel of the V7 Classic would make me lean that way for long distance travelling.
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Not to start a big debate, but I feel something was lost in the V7's. I've had two ('14 & '17), and they both lacked the midrange I thought they should have. Yes of course less displacement, but they don't (to me) feel like the little brother of the big blocks, they feel like something else.
You skipped over the sweet spot of the V7 range before the 850's..... The 2016 (1 years only) V7ii was the last year of the Heron Head V7, 6 speed transmission, and ABS/TC.... I found the V7iii to be too vanilla and boring. I like the 5 speed V7, but the gearing on the 6 speed felt spunkier. But there is NO comparison to a Big Block CARC, and why I will have one in the herd as long as I can physically handle it. I'll miss the 1200 Sport, but the 4V GRiSO and 8V Norge will soothe out any loss..... Heck, the GRiSO is better than therapy, and the Norge is so smooth.
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Meh, like what you want to like.
The big blocks have punch and feel more like a freight train. Ironically that's what I like about Harleys too, and my last XL1200Lr (low turned into a Roadster) was no exception. I had it set up for touring with an HB topcase and detachable hard bags, and a decent windshield. But in the end I actually gave it away in favor of my 2013 and 2018 V7's.
Even with the 4.5g tank it was tough to get much more than 150+ miles on the Sporty and I don't think I ever made it to 200.
But both my V7's regularly see 200 before the low fuel light and easily pass 250. I like that. Yeah, they don't have the punch of the big blocks, but they don't have the mass either. They're something else and I dig em.
I bet the 26+ models have some punch though.
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I loved my 2000 Sportster, but in the end it was the big-block Tonti that won my heart. I tried an Airhead in between, thinking it might be the answer, but it wasn’t quite what I was looking for—though I wasn’t entirely sure what that was at the time. I took it on a couple of big tours and was genuinely impressed, but eventually it rolled out of the shop.
Then the Guzzi came along. It just fit. It ticked all the boxes for me—character, capability, and performance—in a way the others never quite managed. Right balance, right feel, right bike.
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Meh, like what you want to like.
The big blocks have punch and feel more like a freight train. Ironically that's what I like about Harleys too, and my last XL1200Lr (low turned into a Roadster) was no exception. I had it set up for touring with an HB topcase and detachable hard bags, and a decent windshield. But in the end I actually gave it away in favor of my 2013 and 2018 V7's.
Even with the 4.5g tank it was tough to get much more than 150+ miles on the Sporty and I don't think I ever made it to 200.
But both my V7's regularly see 200 before the low fuel light and easily pass 250. I like that. Yeah, they don't have the punch of the big blocks, but they don't have the mass either. They're something else and I dig em.
I bet the 26+ models have some punch though.
I like the torque that comes with big engines, especially when they are tuned for low-end power instead of top-end. Mostly because bikes with go-fast engines are so tempting to ride fast. However, more often than not, big engines comes with significant weight penalties. And heavier thirst. Neither of which I like.
My once-Virago-now-standard Yamaha with an 1100 engine is a gem to ride, but 550 lb is a lot to push around if you must push it up a stair or hill. The Roamer is 475 lbs wet, including aftermarket center stand, and the performance is not terribly far off the once-Virago, partly thanks to lower weight.
However, I still think 300-350 lbs is the perfect range for a street bike, including fuel. But they are rare, and if you want one that has some grunt, you practially have to build it yourself.
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(https://i.ibb.co/zDPjBrc/IMG-3421.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zDPjBrc)
(https://i.ibb.co/jkTVhkhg/IMG-3420.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jkTVhkhg)
I saw this poster.
Then several years later, one found me, leaking from every seal possible.
for cheap. (Guzzi content)
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"However, I still think 300-350 lbs is the perfect range for a street bike, including fuel."
That's pretty light! I don't think I've ever owned a street motorcycle in that weight range - well, maybe my first motorcycle, a 125cc Kawasaki two-stroke. Re that - a couple of my riding "buddies" in Mexico have switched to KTM 390 Dukes and are very happy with them. They were previously riding big (heavy) BMWs, etc and marvel at the fact that, "If it falls over in the parking lot I can actually pick it up!!"
I prefer Motos under 500 lbs - though my BMW R1200RS is well over that "limit." I'd like to trade it on a new MG V7 sport or special here in Texas but I'm not liking ANY of the current V7 sport or special colors, at least based on internet pics/videos. I've not seen any in real life.
There's a local dealer but he only has one '26 V7, a white special. I'm not a fan of white motorcycles.
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Meh, like what you want to like.
The big blocks have punch and feel more like a freight train. Ironically that's what I like about Harleys too, and my last XL1200Lr (low turned into a Roadster) was no exception. I had it set up for touring with an HB topcase and detachable hard bags, and a decent windshield. But in the end I actually gave it away in favor of my 2013 and 2018 V7's.
Even with the 4.5g tank it was tough to get much more than 150+ miles on the Sporty and I don't think I ever made it to 200.
But both my V7's regularly see 200 before the low fuel light and easily pass 250. I like that. Yeah, they don't have the punch of the big blocks, but they don't have the mass either. They're something else and I dig em.
I bet the 26+ models have some punch though.
I'm quoting myself as evidence that I really didn't answer the original question so much as respond to one or two posts.
So I'll offer my response to the OP.
For me, it was about a time when I was rebuilding my life. I have myself a budget of $10k to find a bike (I had been without one for 6 months and was going nuts) and forced myself to look at every brand I could find.
I had previously owned both Harleys and BMWs (air and oil heads) and enjoyed traits of both.
When I found my Jackal it occurred to me that I'd found something with the traits I valued in both other brands - the visceral v-twin grunt/torque and ergos of a Harley with the shaft drive, dry clutch, Brembo brakes and decent handling of a BMW.
I felt a connection to this red headed step child of the motorcycle industry.
Still do.
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(https://i.ibb.co/zDPjBrc/IMG-3421.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zDPjBrc)
(https://i.ibb.co/jkTVhkhg/IMG-3420.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jkTVhkhg)
I saw this poster.
Then several years later, one found me, leaking from every seal possible.
for cheap. (Guzzi content)
The rider manage to make the bike look really petite.
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Meh, like what you want to like.
The big blocks have punch and feel more like a freight train. Ironically that's what I like about Harleys too, and my last XL1200Lr (low turned into a Roadster) was no exception. I had it set up for touring with an HB topcase and detachable hard bags, and a decent windshield. But in the end I actually gave it away in favor of my 2013 and 2018 V7's.
Even with the 4.5g tank it was tough to get much more than 150+ miles on the Sporty and I don't think I ever made it to 200.
But both my V7's regularly see 200 before the low fuel light and easily pass 250. I like that. Yeah, they don't have the punch of the big blocks, but they don't have the mass either. They're something else and I dig em.
I bet the 26+ models have some punch though.
Don't be envious Kev..... I know you are stuck with 'small' blocks and you need to make yourself feel better about it. :grin: :grin:
I've said many times that if it wasn't for my regular and easy access to the Griso and Norge (and 1200 Sport), I would say the Mello Yello Stornello is the PERFECT motorcycle. After the 3K+ trip out West last year, I was extremely happy. 45-50MPG, flawless, and spunky fun on every turn. The trip was 100% OFF the super slab, and I wanted for nothing other than a little umph to pass on some roads, but it was a perfect trip. I was wondering why I even had the other bikes it was so good.
THEN............... I hopped on the GRiSO for a day trip, and took the 1200 Sport on a 1000 mile trip, followed by a couple day trips on the Norge, and I realized why I will always keep a big block. Nothing like them for character, feel, power. As I've said before, out of the box I prefer the 4V big block over the 8V, especially below 6K, but with some modifications like removing the cat, a good valve adjust and TB balance with a Beetle Map, the 8V can keep the 4V character, and bring the benefits of the 6K+ RPM power of the 8V.
It will be interesting to see what I think when I get the new V85 past the first service. I know that the V85 motor is higher strung than other Small Blocks, and more refined, and I'm OK with that, mainly because I have my old Heron Head V7 and big blocks. I rode several V7iii's and though they were smoother, and slightly more power than the V7ii, they felt meh to me. There's a reason you have kept your Heron Head, and it's the character of the Heron Head. I know you have a Hemi Head too.
I'm sure that the new 850's have more oomph and are closing the gap, especially in the spec sheets, but nothing can replace displacement. I rode a V9 Bobber Sport that felt great, but no comparison, even to the 1100 GRiSO. It is about preference, but also what you normalize to and accept. Loving what you ride, and riding what you love is what is all about, and I am glad we have so many options today.
But anyway, be of good cheer brother, you can borrow any of my Big Blocks for a REAL motorcycle fix whenever you want. :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Don't be envious my Brother..... I know you are stuck with 'small' blocks and you need to make yourself feel better about it. :grin: :grin:
< Snip >
But anyway, be of good cheer brother, you can borrow any of my Big Blocks for a REAL motorcycle fix whenever you want. :evil: :evil: :evil:
All joking aside, if I wanted a big block today it wouldn't be a Guzzi.
Honestly, I had a love hate relationship with my Jackal, and I never really bonded with my B11. I was happy when I moved on from both with my V7 Stone.
My last RK was near perfect for me, I'm just not at a point now where I need or even want a big block. My smallblocks do everything I want and I'd rather not occupy that space in the garage or from my vehicle fund with one right now.
If and when I decide to go that direction again my current choice would be a new Heritage or more likely a Low Rider S with custom bag mounts for HB's. But who knows what will be available if and when they time comes.
And most importantly, I really have more fun with the V7's these days and I'm a good 6+ years away from us being empty nesters so I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I also like having a bunch of new 4x4's, especially with all the family road trips these days (soccer, soccer, soccer, snowboarding, soccer, soccer, soccer).
So, I'm good.
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All joking aside, if I wanted a big block today it wouldn't be a Guzzi.
Honestly, I had a love hate relationship with my Jackal, and I never really bonded with my B11. I was happy when I moved on from both with my V7 Stone.
My last RK was near perfect for me, I'm just not at a point now where I need or even want a big block. My smallblocks do everything I want and I'd rather not occupy that space in the garage or from my vehicle fund with one right now.
If and when I decide to go that direction again my current choice would be a new Heritage or more likely a Low Rider S with custom bag mounts for HB's. But who knows what will be available if and when they time comes.
And most importantly, I really have more fun with the V7's these days and I'm a good 6+ years away from us being empty nesters so I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I also like having a bunch of new 4x4's, especially with all the family road trips these days (soccer, soccer, soccer, snowboarding, soccer, soccer, soccer).
So, I'm good.
So your saying NORGE...... I'll be by with it this spring ;-)
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So your saying NORGE...... I'll be by with it this spring ;-)
No, I'm pretty sure I said CONVERT.
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No, I'm pretty sure I said CONVERT.
LOL............ Will do brother.
(https://i.ibb.co/RpcF88P6/IMG-20221007-174813050-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RpcF88P6)
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Since there is a discussion going about big vs small twin: I will say that my Roamer have much better performance, especially in the midrange, than the Cali II, Cali III and Cali EV that I have ridden. And the 2009 V7 Classic of my son is also quite satisfying to ride, and will pull well from the midrange, unlike them big twins I mentioned. Considering that the majority of roads we travel are limited to 50 mph or less, there really is no need for more performance than a V7 offer.
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Since there is a discussion going about big vs small twin: I will say that my Roamer have much better performance, especially in the midrange, than the Cali II, Cali III and Cali EV that I have ridden. And the 2009 V7 Classic of my son is also quite satisfying to ride, and will pull well from the midrange, unlike them big twins I mentioned. Considering that the majority of roads we travel are limited to 50 mph or less, there really is no need for more performance than a V7 offer.
Agreed, but as this thread is all about the 'WHY' I have to say that while the V7 is more than adequate for sub 50mph riding, fun, light and agile even in the tight stuff, WHY I have a Big Block is not just about high speed superslab power, but how you can brake harder dive deeper into a curve, and power out with far more competence than on a V7. The Griso is about 80lbs and Norge 140lbs heavier and feel it, but the larger brakes, tire contact area, more capable suspension, and power make me faster through the turns than on the V7.
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Sportsters are great. I've owned two.
I got lost in your sentence structure. Guzzi should have the edge on range. My 2014 V7 Classic would go forever on a tank of fuel. 250-miles on several trips.
The 1200C has a 4.5 gallon tank. The 08-12 V7 Classics have a 4.5 gallon tank. The 13-up V7 Classics have a 5.5 gallon tank. HD and Guzzi get about the same fuel economy. The Sportster 1200C has good range, but the V7 Classic's is better. The extra rear suspension travel of the V7 Classic would make me lean that way for long distance travelling.
Yeah, I was a bit clunky with how I wrote that. I meant the Sportster has the big tank vs the little peanut tank on many Sportsters... and that since I enjoyed the Harley much more than I expected, I might even consider touring on it.
I've had 4 previous Guzzi's: 850T, Sport 1200, Griso 1100, and a 2017 V7. I missed having a Guzzi in the garage and even though I found the V7 a bit underwhelming, it's very easy to live with, so I bought a 2014. Having it alongside the Sportster will take the pressure off the V7 needing to be all things, so hopefully I'll get it well sorted and put a bunch of miles on it. The big blocks are amazing but they have a bit of a weight penalty when pushing them around the garage or driveway. The Sportster is heavy but it's low height helps it feel lighter than it is.
Regarding the "why", I was an airhead guy for many years, but once I rode a Guzzi I knew my BMW days were over. Guzzi engines just hit different with more mechanical character that is really hard to shake off. I know there's lots of overlap between the Guzzi and Airhead communities, but I find Guzzi's more akin to Harleys with their kind of mechanical rowdiness, if that makes sense.
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Agreed, but as this thread is all about the 'WHY' I have to say that while the V7 is more than adequate for sub 50mph riding, fun, light and agile even in the tight stuff, WHY I have a Big Block is not just about high speed superslab power, but how you can brake harder dive deeper into a curve, and power out with far more competence than on a V7. The Griso is about 80 and Norge 140 and feels it, the larger brakes, tire contact area, more capable suspension, and power make me faster through the turns than on the V7.
I can see that several big block Guzzis offer better brakes and suspension than the V7 models, and because of that offer more confidence and performance within the Guzzi family. But everything else being equal, less weight should bring better handling and a higher level of confidence. Then again, very few will consider a Guzzi if high performance is their key motivation for riding - there are far, far more competent machines to be had for that.
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"I have to say that while the V7 is more than adequate for sub 50mph riding, "
Are you saying the bike is not powerful enough? My (850) V7 will easily exceed the ton; the bike/engine seem very comfortable to me at interstate/M-road speeds (70mph+). Whether a rider is comfortable at those speeds re wind protection is a different issue.
Re wind protection - I have found that almost all bikes I have owned that have any sort of windscreen - like my BMW R1200RS - have an objectionable amount of helmet buffeting which I find FAR more debilitating on a ride than general wind pressure. I tried three different screens on the BMW in addition to the OEM screen and all of them resulted in my teeth rattling from the helmet buffeting. That does not occur on any un-screened machine I have ever owned or ridden. IOW, for me helmet buffeting is far more bothersome than "clean" air at 70 MPH.
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(https://i.ibb.co/Xr8kJNZs/Vulcanmedvindskjerm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xr8kJNZs)
I had a touring screen on my Deauville which I think was made by Givi, but not sure. It worked great, more silent than riding naked. And the way I could fit the Heavy Duty National Cycle screen on my Vulcan 800, see photo, also made it silent and gave full protection for from helmet down to and including knees, as well as hands. And once in a former life, I fitted a Windjammer V to a Honda 250 that worked excellent, and even increased the top speed of the poor little bike.
Those where the exceptions. I tried the same National Cycle screen on an Intruder 1400, a Virago 750 from 1982 and a DragStar Classic 650, and they were all making so much noise and helmet shake to be debilitating. I also bought a screen from USA, forgot the name, that promised to be free from draft and noise. Well, they were lying. The stock screen on the Deauville and not to mention the GSX600F katana were also noisy as heck.
In other words, in my experience the majority of screens add noise.
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"I have to say that while the V7 is more than adequate for sub 50mph riding, "
Are you saying the bike is not powerful enough? My (850) V7 will easily exceed the ton; the bike/engine seem very comfortable to me at interstate/M-road speeds (70mph+). Whether a rider is comfortable at those speeds re wind protection is a different issue.
Re wind protection - I have found that almost all bikes I have owned that have any sort of windscreen - like my BMW R1200RS - have an objectionable amount of helmet buffeting which I find FAR more debilitating on a ride than general wind pressure. I tried three different screens on the BMW in addition to the OEM screen and all of them resulted in my teeth rattling from the helmet buffeting. That does not occur on any un-screened machine I have ever owned or ridden. IOW, for me helmet buffeting is far more bothersome than "clean" air at 70 MPH.
I'm talking about the 750's. They are 'adequate' and fun for sub 50mph, passable and able to hang in the 60's, and YES, can maintain 75MPH on the superslab, but let's face it....... When you are cooking along at 50mph on a state road, and come on grandma and her coffee clutch driving 35mph, you have limited space to pass............... . OR you are on a state highway moving at a steady 65 and need to pass or get out of the way or escape and evade an idiot.............. ...... Or you are loaded for bear on a long trip, and deep in the mountains, steep grade, up and down............... . The V7 is overmatched and the big blocks eat its lunch any and every day. Try to pass with a V7 while scooting at 70 mph? It's one of those "I think I can I think I can white knuckle little red caboose" moments. In a Big Block? Bang and it's over.... No sweat. 70-crack the throttle (downshift optional) 2 seconds your at 90, tuck back in the lane come off throttle and back to 70... Same on a Small block? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: There is NOTHING in the tank.
But here is what I tell EVERYONE about the V7...... "It's the most fun you will ever have with 44-50hp......"
Last year I did a 3000 mile trip with several Guzzi's. I think there were 3-4 V85's, another Stornello (lightly loaded) and some big BMW 6cy monstrosity. I wasn't exactly banging the Stornello off the rev limiter, but I had to work the thing and flog it to keep pace, and the other V7ii was always lagging, and it had a rider 30 lbs lighter than me, and 1/2 the luggage/load. There were some places where the V85's could pass at will, I couldn't and had to wait... and wait... and wait..... Had I been on the Norge, or 1200 Sport, or Griso, or on a V85, I could have ridden without such restrictions.
I imagine the V7 850 is a knotch better in every category than a 750, and even approaching the 1100 GRiSO on a spec sheet, but there is no real comparison for displacement and substance, except for MAYBE the new V7 Sport given the USD fork, twin discs, and other performance upgrades. Power is important, but displacement is reality......
Power and having 'enough' is relative...... You could have 500hp V8 in a Mustang and be completely satisfied, but many put a Whipple Super Charger and 300hp more on it feeling like it isn't enough.
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I bought a '26 V7 Special this past October. I haven't ridden an earlier 850 so I can't compare the '26 to earlier 850 models. According to what I have read the '26's have a larger throttle body, revised cam and a redesigned exhaust system for more low end power. I can say that my '26 has substantially more power than the V7lll that I traded for it. I was more interested in the cruise because of my messed up right hand however I was pleasantly with the increased power. I think it is very similar to the T120 I owned but that was a couple of years ago. The V7lll had to go into the higher rev range to realize decent power levels. The 850 not so much, newer rear shocks are much better as well.
kk
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But here is what I tell EVERYONE about the V7...... "It's the most fun you will ever have with 44-50hp......"
Last year I did a 3000 mile trip with several Guzzi's. I think there were 3-4 V85's, another Stornello (lightly loaded) and some big BMW 6cy monstrosity. I wasn't exactly banging the Stornello off the rev limiter, but I had to work the thing and flog it to keep pace, and the other V7ii was always lagging, and it had a rider 30 lbs lighter than me, and 1/2 the luggage/load. There were some places where the V85's could pass at will, I couldn't and had to wait... and wait... and wait..... Had I been on the Norge, or 1200 Sport, or Griso, or on a V85, I could have ridden without such restrictions.
I imagine the V7 850 is a knotch better in every category than a 750, and even approaching the 1100 GRiSO on a spec sheet, but there is no real comparison for displacement and substance, except for MAYBE the new V7 Sport given the USD fork, twin discs, and other performance upgrades. Power is important, but displacement is reality......
Power and having 'enough' is relative...... You could have 500hp V8 in a Mustang and be completely satisfied, but many put a Whipple Super Charger and 300hp more on it feeling like it isn't enough.
I hear what you're saying and, I haven't ridden the latest version yet. I don't expect it to have the same freight train feel of the CARC big blocks.
But you keep comparing using a reference point there 4 generations old and the equivalent of the slowest bike I've ever loved/kept for any length of time.
The V7III is more powerful than the Heron head and more relaxed on the highway or passing.
The early V9 felt as good as my Jackal when it comes to that push.
The mk IV V7 850 was better than the MkIII still (not enough for me to sell the III, but better).
And everyone I've heard from on the 26+ MK V V7 with the same throttle body off the V85 says it feels much stronger than the IV.
I've seen favorable comparisons to the T120 Triumph which doesn't suffer for lack of displacement.
Yeah I get it's subjective and one might always want more but I'm starting to think it's gonna be the Goldilocks of smallblocks.
Or not.
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Every 850 V-& I rode had plenty of power. And Bulldog is spot on. I had 20K on my 2015 V7. 15K thru the mountains in NY, New England, and WV. The other 5K were slab miles to get there and back. On the Heron Head, 75 was the limit before it simply didn't like it anymore. In the great roads back east, the bike was a blast. But I HAD to be last in line. Simply not enough "juice" to pull top gear, and often 4th (5 Speed bike) in the twisty and steep. I had a BLAST as Hamlin had set up the bike to handle like and F1 car (ok-maybe not that good) but you get the idea. Passing in WV in the oh so few short zones? Uhm, not really. At least not safely, and I made a few dumb passes in my time.
I also took the Norge to the same roads the three years I owned it. Completely different story.
You'd get run over here out west on any slab of note-traffic is 80 in the slow lane. One guy I know with the 850 version of the V7 has zero issues. The 2015 would be dead here. Now on the tight out of the way mountain roads.............. ................... ..
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I have not tried to cruise at elevated speeds on my son's 2009 V7 Classic, but my early V9 will cruise at 90+ mph, even into headwinds, easily. Which cannot be said for me, trying to hang onto the bars. That does not mean it will keep up with the larger, more powerful Guzzis, just that it is not limited to 70 mph cruising. IIRC, the V7 Classis, which I believe share the powertrain with the Breva, should go around 105-110 mph with a rider sitting up.
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Why do we buy a Moto Guzzi?
Because, in addition to a lot of other personal reasons, we have a very strong aversion to group think and herd mentality.
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(https://i.ibb.co/ccZFTcKJ/IMG-1165.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ccZFTcKJ)
That bike is so good looking. Not sure I could handle the long reach to the bars, but what a smokin’ design.
That is a good looking bike. Much better than they were new. Paint wasn’t their strong suit back in the day.
As for the reach, its not that bad at all. These are small bikes compared to what is being made today.
Pete
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Yes, that blue 850 LeMans is truly a B E A U T I F U L motorcycle.
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Why do we buy a Moto Guzzi?
Because, in addition to a lot of other personal reasons, we have a very strong aversion to group think and herd mentality.
Which of course is why we come together in forums and rallies so that we can come together as a group with others who do not suffer from group thinking :huh:
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Solitary animals :evil: get together every year to mate............
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I've had 4 Guzzi's over the years. It began with me finding this site and seeing all the knowledge and helpful information there was, meaning I could do my own upkeep and repairs usinfg this infomarion. That's why I bought my first one. The ones since were me upgrading. My son has the last one I owned...a 1200 Sport that he fusses over. Now I putt around on a couple of Royal Enfield Himalayans. I just turned 79.
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In 2008ish, I test rode a Griso 1200 if if memory is correct, damn was it sweet. Just enough power, very stable. It was until 2022 until I found a dealer in SW Florida that appeared to be stable and bought a V85TT, sold it and now have V7_850 Stone TEN, this bike is special.
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Solitary animals :evil: get together every year to mate............
Now there's a good reason to never go to rallies!
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Solitary animals :evil: get together every year to mate............
I have NEVER SLEPT with anyone from WG!!! :violent1:
I mean, same room but you know what I mean.... :boozing:
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For me I rode only offroad bikes with a bunch of other guys who also road street bikes. I didnt have a road bike and bought a V50 from one of the guys. a few years later i bought a wrecked SPlll. I still ride it 77,000 miles later
(https://i.ibb.co/pjshWyLP/100-2159-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pjshWyLP)
(https://i.ibb.co/PZm2ndQq/sp111-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PZm2ndQq)
(https://i.ibb.co/hFy8GYrc/rear-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hFy8GYrc)
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Back in around 2008 at Mid Ohio Sports Car race track in Mansfield Ohio, I test rode a Griso and I said this one is special. In 2022 bought a V85TT, then rescued a V7 2014, sold them both and later bought a V7-850 Stone TEN. I dont know if my V7 is a freak or what but the way it delivers the power, I swear it would out run the V85TT. Only thing I have added is Wilburs springs up front, maybe a set of slip ons with an Upmap.
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No Dave I think my '26 Special would give my former T120 a run for its money. I think the new V7's are under rated.
kk
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Unless your 1200 is very sick, there is no way a 67hp V7 will keep up with a 104 hp 1200. It may FEEL as fast or faster, and to me that is more important than actual numbers, but it is bound to be slower.
For instance, my XL500S felt more eager than my brother's KZ1300 DFI, but the big six blew past like the XL was chained to a tree. Regardless, my XL was fun to ride, the KZ (which my brother bought from me, and I the XL from him) felt so lame and tired, despite its 140 mph indicated top speed. The power came in so gently, so smoothly as to be almost undetectable. Only the rapid progress of the speedo needle told you the thing was quick and fast.
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Unless your 1200 is very sick, there is no way a 67hp V7 will keep up with a 104 hp 1200. It may FEEL as fast or faster, and to me that is more important than actual numbers, but it is bound to be slower.
T120 Bonnie - 79-80 HP / 520#'s wet.
V7 - 67 up / 481# wet
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Thanks, Kev, it is good to see that my memory still fails me with utter reliability :violent1:
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I have NEVER SLEPT with anyone from WG!!! :violent1:
I mean, same room but you know what I mean.... :boozing:
It will all be OK Kev.
Don't take it personally.
Rejection hurts, but only for a little while.... :wink:
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Unless your 1200 is very sick, there is no way a 67hp V7 will keep up with a 104 hp 1200. It may FEEL as fast or faster, and to me that is more important than actual numbers, but it is bound to be slower.
For instance, my XL500S felt more eager than my brother's KZ1300 DFI, but the big six blew past like the XL was chained to a tree. Regardless, my XL was fun to ride, the KZ (which my brother bought from me, and I the XL from him) felt so lame and tired, despite its 140 mph indicated top speed. The power came in so gently, so smoothly as to be almost undetectable. Only the rapid progress of the speedo needle told you the thing was quick and fast.
I let a friend ride my Suzuki DR650. He was convinced it had more power than his son's Suzuki GSXR600!
I assumed he never got the GSXR above 5,000 rpm.
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T120 Bonnie - 79-80 HP / 520#'s wet.
V7 - 67 up / 481# wet
. V7 wins in 2 categories, V7 is better looking and V7 wins with power to weight ratio.
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T120 Bonnie - 79-80 HP / 520#'s wet.
V7 - 67 up / 481# wet
Are these dyno numbers or manufacturer published numbers?
Aesthetically, the V7 blows away the T120.
Plus the V7 has actual heritage. Triumph moved absolutely everything to Thailand years ago. Many refer to them as Thaiumph as they no longer have any tie whatsoever to England.
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Those are published numbers which don't mean an awful lot in my opinion. I am an outboard motor gearhead. Back in the 50's and 60's Mercury sold a 20 Cu In motor called the Super 10 Hurricane with 10hp on the data tag. In later years they were put on dynos and depending on the year produced 16 to 18 HP. Compatible OMC's and larger couldn't even attempt to keep up with them resulting in a popular expression started by OMC. "Mercurys are fast but don't last." Sound familiar? :smiley: As I have said I didn't see much difference in the performance of the two bikes. The new, my '26 Special has substantially more power than my previous V7 even though the published HP's are not that much different.
kk
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I'm not a fan of white motorcycles.
no? You're breaking my heart....
(https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/c3b1810c5fb1.png) (https://imgchest.com/p/ljyq5mnboy2)
Nicely surprised with how often the GRiSO is being referenced as a benchmark machine. Many suggest it's a future 1000S in terms of gravitas within the range. Let's hope!
For me it boils down to bang for the buck, DIY accessibility and Heritage. I LOVE riding them. I LOVE looking at (many of) them. And there's lots to talk about in terms of their role in the history of Moto's in general - lending itself to community.
Kev M - I too referred to the Jackal as the red headed stepchild of the community in the 'Best Looking' thread, not having seen your identical comment here til just now.
Your White Jackal was an early muse to me in my Guzzi journey. :boozing: cheers to that!
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Well, I accompanied my brother to the drag strip before I had a license and there was a guy running a Guzzi there.
It was so sweet sounding and the percussion was like a timpani drum only we called it a “ground pounder”.
Anyway, been smitten ever since!
inditx
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Triumph production in Thailand has some of the highest quality in production ratings one can find anywhere in the world.
Having worked for them and having friends who are sales managers my experience is they have never been better. Nothing like my old ones-that's for sure.
Now, I'll take my Guzzi all day every day but if I wanted another Triumph overseas production wouldn't hold me back one little bit.
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Triumph production in Thailand has some of the highest quality in production ratings one can find anywhere in the world.
Having worked for them and having friends who are sales managers my experience is they have never been better. Nothing like my old ones-that's for sure.
Now, I'll take my Guzzi all day every day but if I wanted another Triumph overseas production wouldn't hold me back one little bit.
I'm sure the Triumph - Thailand quality is fine. But their pricing reflects Made In England, not Thailand.
When you remove all connection to England (manufacturing/R&D etc) from a Triumph, what are you left with? IMHO, a Thaiumph.
The 'heritage' at Triumph, at this point, is pure Marketing spin. It's simply not reality. If I were English I'd be embarrassed they use the UK flag at all. That time period has simply passed.
Same with Indian Motorcycles under Polaris. That 1901 'heritage' marketing was pure nonsense. In Indian's case, even worse as the two best selling lines, the Scout and the Challenger/Pursuit were pure Victory DNA with minimal engineering differences and a badge change.
The Victory Octane was shown to Victory dealers as their entry level bike years before it came out at Sturgis as the Indian Scout.
Same with the Challenger. It was also shown to Victory dealers as the new 2018 Victory Cross series line. Again, only to be released years later looking like a Harley with Indian badging.
If Polaris didn't have the Victory design folder to rob from, Indian wouldn't have lasted 5 years with Polaris. I kept wanting Polaris to come up with something, even one thing, that was new, original and unique for the Indian line. Nope, nothing, not one single thing.
For me, the Victory was all new, original and unique because the entire line was new. Polaris Marketing was poor but the bikes were solid.
Moto Guzzi, 100% pure heritage back to the inception in 1921. Even in the same location. I have no issue honoring and congratulating them on that feat.
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Well, I accompanied my brother to the drag strip before I had a license and there was a guy running a Guzzi there.
It was so sweet sounding and the percussion was like a tempani drum only we called it a “ground pounder”.
Anyway, been smitten ever since!
inditx
It's 1/4 an old school pushrod V8..... Sounds best with a dual exhaust.
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Unless your 1200 is very sick, there is no way a 67hp V7 will keep up with a 104 hp 1200. It may FEEL as fast or faster, and to me that is more important than actual numbers, but it is bound to be slower.
For instance, my XL500S felt more eager than my brother's KZ1300 DFI, but the big six blew past like the XL was chained to a tree. Regardless, my XL was fun to ride, the KZ (which my brother bought from me, and I the XL from him) felt so lame and tired, despite its 140 mph indicated top speed. The power came in so gently, so smoothly as to be almost undetectable. Only the rapid progress of the speedo needle told you the thing was quick and fast.
I had a Griso1200 for five years. My V7 Sport does not come close to that type of effortless acceleration.
It does feel faster than my 2015 Bonneville (69 air cooled hp). Seat of the pants, very close to my ‘94 Ducati 900CR (450 pounds 72 hp).
My 2022 Speed Twin 1200 will destroy the V7 in any acceleration contest. It’s all relative.
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Chinese Bennelli, small BMW, Triumph, and KTM made in India.
Sign of the times. I'll absolutely agree Polaris has BIG stones with Indian, or rather, had. Since 1901. Please. But who's to say any new Bloor Triumph has/had any cred as there was no Ed Turner. Where's the line? Designed here, build there? It's 90% Brits running the far east plants. Does that count? Moved to Hinkley, no longer made in Meridian?
Heck, our beloved Guzzi has Aprilia parts, and some Chinese parts. Mine had tires made in America as delivered.
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I really do not understand why someone would claim a price should reflect the origin of a product. I mean, it is not like Made in Britain or Norway or USA is an automatic stamp of quality, even if labor cost is higher than in most Asian countries.
A product is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Some are willing to pay extra for heritage, be that a name or a design or a location or whatever, and if enough feel like that, the manufacturere will likely exploit the situation by charging more. But that Guzzis has been made in the same area since the beginning does not in itself make it any better. Or worse. It just means that it has a long tradition. Some will value that, others do not care.
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So, if Moto Guzzi, Ferrari and Ducati completely pulled out of Italy and moved to China, buyers shouldn’t care?
Different strokes for different folks I guess. A Triumph with zero tie whatsoever to England is a Thaiumph.
When I bought my 2012 Victory 88% of all the parts were sourced within the US. At the time Harley was around 44%.
Yes, that made a difference in my purchase decision.
The Chinese made Harley’s were certainly a flop, and I’m fine with that.
It matters with some products and it doesn’t to others.
When you buy a CF Moto, there’s no pretense of origin, history or heritage.
When you buy a Moto Guzzi or a Triumph? To me, origin, history and heritage matters.
YMMV
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It's 1/4 an old school pushrod V8..... Sounds best with a dual exhaust.
Yep. I remember thinking "Wow! That sounds like 1/2 of a hopped up V8!" when I heard a Yamaha VMax with an aftermarket exhaust.
Sound and vibration are big selling points for Moto Guzzi. Same with Harley, Ducati, and other V-Twins.
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I really do not understand why someone would claim a price should reflect the origin of a product. I mean, it is not like Made in Britain or Norway or USA is an automatic stamp of quality, even if labor cost is higher than in most Asian countries.
In the US, it is a left over protectionist mentality from the 1980's when "Buy American!" was a massive US automakers/UAW public relations campaign in response to the possibility of "Japan Inc." obliterating US auto manufacturing when the quality of American automobiles went to Hell in a Handbasket over a dozen or so years.
The same also applied to motorcycles. Harley Davidson's famous lawsuit in 1984(?) was the reason the Japanese big four reduced engine size of their 750cc models to 699cc.
Some was also due to WWII & Korean War veterans remembering the bad old days of war. Many in that generation would rather eat ground glass than buy a large consumer item like a car from anywhere outside the US. The younger generations did not think similarly to any large extent.
I don't remember any similar thinking about products made by other evil Axis countries like Italy and Germany. I suspect it was simply due to the fact that German and Italian autos/motorcycles were seen more as status symbols, and not the high volume threat to US manufacturing that the Asian companies represented. The average American Joe was not buying German or Italian autos, or even motorcycles.
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In the US, it is a left over protectionist mentality from the 1980's when "Buy American!" was a massive US automakers/UAW public relations campaign in response to the possibility of "Japan Inc." obliterating US auto manufacturing when the quality of American automobiles went to Hell in a Handbasket.
Some was also due to WWII & Korean War veterans remember the bad old days of war. Many in that generation would rather eat glass than buy a large consumer item like a car from anywhere outside the US. The younger generations did not think similarly to any large extent.
Hopefully, there will always be some form of nationalistic pride & community in all locations. People need a sense of belonging to a greater whole.
Thank you for the insight. I guess being Norwegian, I am pretty agnostic when it comes to production, as we have very little history making vehicles. And the ones we've made were not very great. However, what you wrote reminded me that many from the generation before me would not buy anything German due to the two world wars.
There is particularly one region in Norway, down at the south-west corner, where America is held in high esteem. My oldest son, born in 1987, have always been a fan of Amcars, mopar in particular, although he owns a Ford Torino. And he has just agreed to buy a 2004 low mileage Tahoe. Personally, the obvious lack of build quality regarding virtually every car made in USA is a good reason not to want one, even if some looks good. European mass produced cars are also lacking in quality, although less so than those from America. Japan make boring cars, but typically of the best quality in my exprience. So why have all of my cars, save for one Japanese and one American, come from Europe :rolleyes:
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I would buy used but not new Chinese crap, Made in Italy not just assembled there. See if they last 200K miles Loosing their heritage is hard to swallow.
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Thank you for the insight. I guess being Norwegian, I am pretty agnostic when it comes to production, as we have very little history making vehicles. And the ones we've made were not very great. However, what you wrote reminded me that many from the generation before me would not buy anything German due to the two world wars.
There is particularly one region in Norway, down at the south-west corner, where America is held in high esteem. My oldest son, born in 1987, have always been a fan of Amcars, mopar in particular, although he owns a Ford Torino. And he has just agreed to buy a 2004 low mileage Tahoe. Personally, the obvious lack of build quality regarding virtually every car made in USA is a good reason not to want one, even if some looks good. European mass produced cars are also lacking in quality, although less so than those from America. Japan make boring cars, but typically of the best quality in my exprience. So why have all of my cars, save for one Japanese and one American, come from Europe :rolleyes:
Cause you are a proud member of the EU? :wink: Makes sense to buy local as much as possible for all sorts of reasons.
I think it may be law that all items must have a "Made in _____." label on the product or packing. Do they have "Made in the EU!" labels over there?
Quality of American cars varies greatly depending on year of manufacture and model. Lots of research is wise.
"Japan Inc." scaring the hell out of the US auto makers was one of the best things possible for the US auto industry.
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It has been years since any other maker has offered anything that interests me other than MG. It's the whole experience wrapped into one unique machine. Most others have too much plastic and many have looks that appear bizarre to me such as the insectoid front ends of bikes. I don't care how good a bike it is if it doesn't look right and speaking only for myself, if the bike is water cooled, it must have a faring that hides the hoses. Exposed hoses are a no-go for me. M-G's still look like motorcycles to me.
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"I don't care how good a bike it is if it doesn't look right"
Absolutely!!! I have never/will never buy a vehicle based only on its performance. I buy them based on how they look to me. Sure, there is an element of performance/reliability involved and if I liked the look of two vehicles and one had better performance/reliability I would buy that one. I could give specific examples but I'm sure that any motorcycle I selected as "ugly" would p1ss off someone who has the opposite view of what is attractive! ;)
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I am generally not a loyalist when it comes to products. My cars have been bought based on what suited my needs. Tried a lot of cars 15 years ago, including Honda and Mazda and Kia and Hyundai and more, but they all had their rear view mirror where I need to see forward, so had to skip them. In general, Volvo, Skoda, VW, Audi, Mercedes and European Ford fit me best comfortwise and functional-wise. Skoda gives the most bang for the bucks for me.
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My first bike was the ugliest I ever had ,a Honda 300 Dream.I really wanted a cool looking SuperHawk but could only afford the Dream.Sincethen I have learned that the only view of my bike that matters to me is what I see as I ride down the road.If somebody compliments how they look that’s fine ,if they don’t,not a problem for me,my goal is to enjoy the actual riding of the motorcycle.
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Seems to me that we are a largely 'enthusiast' community, and that influences our perceptions and priorities.
I've always bought what I liked, and what suited my wants needs and desired. I was a dedicated Yamaha Owner with few deviations from 1984-2015. XS1100, XS750, VMAX, FZ1, FJR, with a C10 Concours thrown in for the MC's I rode. I lamented the loss of an air cooled shaft drive Motorcycle. In 2015, I discovered Guzzi, and it clicked.
For me, the heritage of Guzzi, the mostly small niche, hand built low volume nature of the brand became part of the allure, but was a PLUS not the driver of my desire. That said, if Guzzi closed and some Chinese or India based company bought the license or name, I can say without question that those models would not make it to my garage. If Guzzi exported the bulk of their manufacturing to India or China or Indonesia, I'm not sure. That would have to depend on the actual model and how it functioned or felt. It would have SOME impact, and would cause me to pause but being honest, I don't know. Authenticity matters, but reality and principle has its limits.
It's the same with automobiles. Here in the US, there is a huge Toyota Truck Factory in Texas. They build virtually all of the Tundras there, and once Tacomas as well. As Tacoma demand increased, they built a factory in Mexico. Given a choice, I'd prefer to buy one made in Texas. Same is true for many GM products who shifted production to Canada rather than Detroit. Again, if given the choice, I'd lean towards a US manufactured Ford. Given a choice between a true Holden or it's Pontiac sibling, I'd take the Holden. BMW and Mercedes has plants here in the US. If given a choice, I'd buy a German made car over a US based manufacture. We could go on and on with examples. For me, it's complicated and absolutes are no longer possible for any mass produced motor vehicle.
Authenticity plays a large role for me, especially for my 'enthusiast' based purchases, but utility matters. Our Family Haulers (when we had kids) was always based on affordability and utility. We had Jeep SUV's Full Size SUV's, Full Size SUV's, and Minivans. At that time it was a balance of affordability utility and reliability.
Buy what you want, what you like, for whatever your reason. I bought my Tundra and caught huge pushback from all my big 3 truck owning buddies. Now, almost 8 years later, they are on their 2nd or 3rd truck, and mine looks, rides, runs better than theirs, and has been 100% perfect in every way. I also gleefully pointed out that in 2017, the Tundra was the most American Truck sold in the US. Designed in America for our Market, most major components made in America, and built largely by Americans. But THAT was not my goal and objective. At 55, I wanted a 20 year truck. One with rock solid reliability, ease and affordable maintenance, resale value, durability, capability, style AND entry price. The Tundra checked all those boxes, and was $20K cheaper than the GMC, Dodge and Ford trucks I was looking at. I've no regrets.
One final ramble. My kids range in age from 27-37..... A point of fatherly pride for me last year was my kids have become established enough that they were able to buy new cars in the last couple years. A BIG step after years of beaters and 'good enough' As a car guy, of course I talked them through all their choices, goals, budget, and goals long and short term. All ended up in Japanese Vehicles. A Honda Civic SI due to it's manual transmission, a non hybrid RAV 4 AWD, a Tacoma TRD, and a Hybrid AWD Sienna Mini Van. Something that cracked me up was being lectured and chastized by my kids when I sent them a list that included Hyundia and Kias...... LOL....
I think supporting your local community, your particular nations economy, and the heritage associated with them, but in the end, you have to make whatever decision is best for you, your needs, your finances and your conscience.
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Machinery (cars, trucks, bikes, toasters...) are built with a specific idea in mind, like quality, ease of use, ruggedness, etc. Different brands have a different focus. For instance, the older BMWs were basically a touring machine. They were designed with that as the guiding principle and everything aligned to that view. The Guzzis, on the other hand, were racing machines and the non racers were essentially tuned down racers. Different companies in different countries may have had similar viewpoints or goals, but being of differing mentalities and resources went about it differently. A racing machine from Germany or Italy or Japan would all be quite different. The thing is, the personalities of the companies producing the machines impinges on their products. You might say the machine has a personality even though it's just a bunch of mechanical parts. But the truth is that the design considerations are firmly implanted on the machine and they can be felt. When riding the old BMWs I tend to feel relaxed and easy going, and kind of bored. But on the Guzzi it puts me in more of an aggressive mode - pushing the limits and enjoying the game. It evokes different emotions. So when we talk about brand loyalty, I think what's really happening is we agree with the design considerations the company goes with - it's purposes and its way of going about reaching them. All things change and Guzzi is not the same company it was in the 60s. It changed with De Tomaso and then again with its changes of ownership the turn of the century. It used to produce all sorts of different engine configurations and much more than motorcycles. Now it's only V twins as far as I know. I'm not into complexity with electronics and fuel injection so stick with the earlier simpler machines. I like and agree with the Guzzi that Carlo and Lino envisioned. I like the emotions and sensations they evoke, and their aesthetics. It resonates with me.
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Interesting. My brother always said that the most relaxing bikes for him have been the Guzzi California models, 1000 and 1100.