Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: SLDMRossi on March 06, 2026, 10:37:11 AM
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Having been at this for some 40+ years now, I do believe that there's never been a better time to join the Moto Guzzi fraternity. Back in the day, the options available on the used market were essentially...do you want a black Eldorado, or a white Eldorado?
Obviously, Moto Guzzi has come a long way since then. The model range has expanded with multiple variants and displacements to choose from. And no doubt, after all the various company ownership changes back in Mandello, the bikes are now being built with greater integrity. Yes, they may be a bit more complicated, but modern electronics, fuel injection, etc. have made for more versatile and functional machines. And they're safer, too, with things like better brakes, etc. Turn the key and go...yee haa!
Meanwhile, with a relatively small following, used Moto Guzzis are in fact...undervalued. And the bikes, of course, are known to go the distance from a durability perspective. So it's not uncommon to see really affordable, relatively low mileage Guzzis on the market that have plenty of life left in them. Better yet, they're often accessorized to the extent that things like hard bags essentially come with them for free!
Here are couple of examples to prove the point, that I came across at Hamlin Cycles in Bethel, Connecticut the other day:
2004 Breva 750 = $2,500 (14,000 miles)
2006 Breva 1100 = $4,000 (Mistral exhaust, 16,000 miles)
2008 1200 Sport = $3,000 (new battery, new tires, Aprilia hard bags, 78,000 miles)
2009 Norge = $3,500 (new tires, Staintune Slip-on pipe, hard bags, 39,000 miles)
2014 Norge = $5,200 (new tires, hard bags, 26,000 miles)
How can you go wrong buying a bike like one of these? Particularly, if you get it from an authorized dealer? Which means that it's going to be fully serviced before it rolls out the door! At say $150 per hour Labor, think about the value that adds to the equation!!
So with the new season approaching (for those of us here in the Northeast, at least) it really is a great time to seize the opportunity to spread your Moto Guzzi wings! You won't be disappointed with an undervalued, used Guzzi.
I've never been...
Steven Rossi
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Agreed. Cheap motorcycling never had it so good.
Last year I bought a mint 98 EV for 2K and a week later an even better one popped up and was sold for 1.5K. What other 1500 to 2000 dollar bike could you hop on and ride to California and back at 80 mph if you desired without a worry?
(https://i.ibb.co/gMW9m2Xc/thumbnail-IMG-5226.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gMW9m2Xc)
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Post pandemic it’s been a buyer market for the last couple of years and only going to get better for buyers of used. In a couple of years when today’s buyers that bought bikes at suppressed values and go to sell them they are going to command even less money further torpedoing the market into eventual oblivion.
For the most part it’s a buy low, sell lower market.
It’s fun to see sellers who bought bikes at well below MSRP then complain when they go to sell at or near book value and cannot get a buyer. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
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Yea, it's kind of killing me at the moment. Time to move the Jackal but no way I'd take 1500-2000. Bikes in that range have not had the renewal that I've done, and it's not cheap. I'm asking less than half of what I've put into the bike with zero even insult offers.
Personally, I'd never take a 25 year old motorcycle on a long trip without going thru it top to bottom. I no longer have the time or desire to trailer 1000 miles because a fuel hose rotted out or one of the very many other items to go thru on an older motorcycle.
Just last week had to replace, due to wear, the inner bearing and race inside the pumpkin. Over 400 bucks just for parts.
Part of it is where I live. One would not like to have a failure in many places out west in 100 degree heat with no shade or cell service.
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Buying 15/20+ year old bike with no warranty from an authorized dealer usually equates to paying more for something but not getting anything for doing so.
For me the only reason to buy from a dealership is if there is a warranty included in the purchase.
I don’t think any dealer is going to spend a ton of time or money getting a $2500 ready for to be sold. An oil chance and a quick wash is more than most dealerships would do/invest to make it “recently serviced”
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Personally, I'd never take a 25 year old motorcycle on a long trip without going thru it top to bottom. I no longer have the time or desire to trailer 1000 miles because a fuel hose rotted out or one of the very many other items to go thru on an older motorcycle.
I agree with you for the most part. My EV for 2k was sold by the original owner. The owner was a fastidious fellow who religiously had Ned's perform all the service big and small over the years. After my thorough inspection I can say the bike is truly in tip top. There are exceptions to 25 year old bikes that need a laundry list of work.
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Bought my 07 Norge from Fat Bob for $2000 and he had done a full service and put 2 new tires on it. Probably spent another grand on flight to Wyoming from Texas and gas/hotels/food to ride it back home but that trip was priceless
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Two of the bikes in the OP were Steve's and just traded in great condition (not that I'd work about any used bikes from Jim Hamlin).
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There are far more used motorcycles out there than there are buyers for. Moto Guzzi or any other brand. I'm amazed at some of the ridiculously high prices dealers still ask for used bikes languishing on their floor showroom.
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I've bought a lot of used bikes from dealers...and I've bought a lot of used bikes privately. And I've had plenty of good and plenty of bad experiences in both cases.
The one thing that the dealer model offers is that there's at least a place to return to if something doesn't work out. I can't tell you how many private sellers I've dealt with that literally vanished into the night once the $ was exchanged. Clearly, there was no recourse there. But of course, there are a lot of standup guys, too.
Obviously, there's no 100% solution here. Again...the subject of the Post speaks for itself: THE STATE OF THE UNDERVALUED, USED MOTO GUZZI MARKET. With particular attention to "Undervalued, Used..." Nothing more, nothing less.
SR
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P.S. -- the $2,500 Breva 750 I saw at Hamlin's was on the Lift, getting all the fluids changed, the heads retorqued, valve lash checked/adjusted and new cover gaskets installed.
So, the generalization posted above..."I don’t think any dealer is going to spend a ton of time or money getting a $2500 ready for to be sold. An oil change and a quick wash is more than most dealerships would do/invest to make it “recently serviced” is a falsehood. Having personally witnessed something completely different a few days ago in Bethel, Connecticut.
SR
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P.S. -- the $2,500 Breva 750 I saw at Hamlin's was on the Lift, getting all the fluids changed, the heads retorqued, valve lash checked/adjusted and new cover gaskets installed.
So, the generalization posted above..."I don’t think any dealer is going to spend a ton of time or money getting a $2500 ready for to be sold. An oil change and a quick wash is more than most dealerships would do/invest to make it “recently serviced” is a falsehood. Having personally witnessed something completely different a few days ago in Bethel, Connecticut.
SR
And that was one of Steve's and I'm sure was fine but Jim is just that conscientious. :thumb:
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Man.... If only I was 30 years younger with my current income. :food:
Seriously, though, I cannot complain even though I've only made money on one bike sale in my life... it was Vespa, of all things. I've never complained about loosing money on a sale, because it was never about making a sale- I just want to to try something different.
I'll have to talk to my lovely wife about that Breva. They are nice bikes and we (uh, she) used to have one.
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If I already didn't have a 2008 Breva 750, I'd buy that 2004...
And I can assure you, I certainly have more than $2,500 in mine!
Steven Rossi
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Older Moto Guzzi's are good prices right now, but a 20 or more year old bike should be really gone thru. I'd say change all hoses and flush fluids, clutch cable also throttle cables and clean up any PO mistakes.
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Older Moto Guzzi's are good prices right now, but a 20 or more year old bike should be really gone thru. I'd say change all hoses and flush fluids, clutch cable also throttle cables and clean up any PO mistakes.
I have a tendency to do a lot of this stuff on any used bike I buy, no matter the age. Gives me the opportunity to go over it with a fine tooth comb and get to know the bike. More often than not find out that there are very few good 12v electricians out there that know how to properly wire accessories.
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This was my selling experience last fall. Needed to sell my 2011 Norge with 27,000 miles on it. Had some scrapes from two tip overs on dirt/sand at basically zero mph and one in a parking lot when my foot slipped out from under me due to fine sand and silt. Otherwise...
Both original and a Cal Sci wind screens.
Back tire about 89%, front 40% but with another new front tire to go with the bike.
Guzzi side cases and matching top case.
Fresh oil change.
Rollored.
Ran great, everything worked as it should.
Tough sell but went for $1,800 after a period of no nibbles.
Picture is the buyer taking it away.
(https://i.ibb.co/2YWtTnh3/IMG-0681.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2YWtTnh3)
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This was my selling experience last fall. Needed to sell my 2011 Norge with 27,000 miles on it. Had some scrapes from two tip overs on dirt/sand at basically zero mph and one in a parking lot when my foot slipped out from under me due to fine sand and silt. Otherwise...
Both original and a Cal Sci wind screens.
Back tire about 89%, front 40% but with another new front tire to go with the bike.
Guzzi side cases and matching top case.
Fresh oil change.
Rollored.
Ran great, everything worked as it should.
Tough sell but went for $1,800 after a period of no nibbles.
Picture is the buyer taking it away.
(https://i.ibb.co/2YWtTnh3/IMG-0681.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2YWtTnh3)
That takes the prize for the best mile muncher for the money!
But we need a SAD button. Like button doesn't fit for this one. :cry:
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for one more data point, I recently sold my '16 Audace (11k miles) for $4500. It was a non-running project when I picked it up, but clean enough overall that I thought it was easily a >$5k bike once I got it 100% roadworthy.
Nope.
The Guzzi brand is just not widely known and the minimal dealer support further decreases their value to all but us DIY mechanics.
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The sad part of Moto Guzzis but we knew that going in. I sold my V100 well below market to be able to sell it in a timely manner. I got next to nothing for my V7lll on trade in. It is what it is, I just think of the joy I got out of them. I just traded my Ram dually on a new Jeep Gladiator, I didn't need that big a truck anymore nor want to drive that big monster around town. It had several dents and scrapes so I took a beating but that's life. Thirteen years and 100,000 miles later it was ok. I always buy high and sell low, that's what my cattle rancher step father always said, I just follow in his footsteps.
kk
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I always buy high and sell low, that's what my cattle rancher step father always said, I just follow in his footsteps.
kk
Jay Leno once said that every bike could become a future classic if you wait long enough!... "You didn't price it too low, you just sold too soon!" :grin:
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I wonder are used Guzzi sales in Europe, and other countries outside of the USA experiencing the same thing?
Rick.
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I wonder are used Guzzi sales in Europe, and other countries outside of the USA experiencing the same thing?
Rick.
The prices have always looked higher on the same used models in the EU to me but it might vary by country or region.
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The sad part of Moto Guzzis but we knew that going in. I sold my V100 well below market to be able to sell it in a timely manner. I got next to nothing for my V7lll on trade in. It is what it is, I just think of the joy I got out of them.
I recently took a pretty big hit trading my V100 Stelvio but at least with BMW incentives they took almost $5K off leftover 25 GS. I still have my V85 though and it's not going anywhere.
I always buy high and sell low, that's what my cattle rancher step father always said, I just follow in his footsteps.
LOL describes me to a T. :)
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The prices have always looked higher on the same used models in the EU to me but it might vary by country or region.
Varies quite a bit by model too. In the UK, private sale of a Breva is depressingly low for a seller, yet a Le Mans not so much. London-centric prices in general (cars & bikes) tend to be lower than N. Scotland, for example.
I've seen bikes up for sale, for well over a year, by both private and trade sellers, not counting the ones asking for "silly money".
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Whenever I check out used bikes (Guzzies included) the first thing I look at are the tires. I don't change my own so purchase and installation is a major expense. A $2700.00 cycle with good rubber is a $2200.00 cycle with bad rubber.
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The Moto Guzzi market has been low for a long time. They just aren’t widely known, and most modern riders care a lot about the dealership network. Today’s bikes are complicated, and many riders don’t work on them anymore—it’s often hard just to diagnose problems. When you combine that with Guzzi’s almost nonexistent dealer network in some areas, it scares potential buyers away.
Personally, I find working on bikes satisfying, and the older Guzzis are almost therapeutic to me. For someone who enjoys learning a machine and getting to know a bike with real character, they’re fantastic. It’s a great bike and a great market for riders who appreciate pure riding enjoyment and don’t mind turning a wrench.
I had a guy ask me once about buying a Guzzi. I told him it’s like a marriage—a lifetime commitment. He laughed, and I smiled because I knew I was telling the truth. He ended up buying one, but later decided he didn’t want to put the money into it that it needed. Last I saw, it was sitting there listed for $1,500 as an EV Touring. The listing has since been pulled. I suspect dealing with lowball offers and tire kickers got old pretty fast.
As for me, I buy ’em to ride ’em… which is probably why I have so many Moto Guzzis.
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You have no idea how Hamlin and crew go thru bikes. None.
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Bikes are a hobby. If someone can name me any motorized hobby that is cheap, you win the prize. (I was browsing for a bicycle store and happened to see the price of some of the E-bikes - higher than any of the Royal Enfields). I just retrieved my 10 year old 1400 from Cadre after it's annual winter visit. New tires, oil and rear diff change, valve adjust and replace headlight, about $1,400.00. Am I complaining? Absolutely not. It is just the price of the hobby. What did I get for that much money? Peace of mind and a bike I am sure will take me through this coming season in good order (barring unexpected problems such as a flat on the tubed tires) just like this past season. I could have saved some money if I jacked the bike up, took off the wheels and walked them in and bought the fluids and I can adjust valves. But, in the past, they have spotted items that needed attention that I would have missed. Also, that bike weighs over 3 times my own weight and I don't feel comfortable dealing with that mass where on the V85 with centerstand, it was not a problem. When I trade this bike to Enzo for whichever will be next, he will give me a fair price, but it won't be very much given the age of the bike and state of the market. But I don't really care. I am not wealthy, but I accept the price of the hobby.
When I was a younger version of myself, I got in over my head a few times with bikes and really could not afford to keep them up as I should have, but that 's the learning curve.
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In terms of buying used bikes, now is a GREAT time to do so.
I look on craigslist, and if one is not picky about brand, there
are some AMAZING deals out there.
5 years or so ago, lots of stuff was priced ridiculously, but the
market has adjusted more to reality.
Oh, and to echo some other sentiments, I'd trust anything coming out
of Hamlin's stable.
-Stretch
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Interesting thread.
I think that the whole used market is reasonable right now with few exceptions. That's the deal with cars, motorcycles, and boats. With few exceptions, this is a great time to be an enthusiast and pick up older 'toys' Guzzi included, but let's face it, Guzzi takes the cake on this low price thing...... I will say though that the glut of 'leftovers' seems to be less in 2026 than they were in 2020.
Older bikes, most CARCs with the exception of the GRiSO, the run of the mill V7's with the exception of maybe the Racer, most EV's can all be had at VERY reasonable prices and each brings its charms. I've been shocked to see how cheap used V85's and the V100 Mandellos are going for. Guzzis age VERY well, are durable, reliable, and such great values. It does however make me wonder how the V100's will fare over time.
Somebody needs to jump on that Breva 750, is a VERY nice bike. The 1200 Sport is as well. I'm impressed that Hamlin goes through all the bikes to ensure they are sorted before selling. That's not what a good dealer will do, thats what a TOP KNOTCH dealer will do.
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I wonder are used Guzzi sales in Europe, and other countries outside of the USA experiencing the same thing?
Rick.
i am based in italy, and id say same here, too many used bikes on offer + only few buyers = low prices.
now the common rule of thumb here is to offer 20-30% less than bike is advertised for, most people tired of waiting will take your money.
not just guzzis, paid last month 2400$ for a very nice 2006 BMW R1200 RT with 40 k miles.
also good classic bikes are going down. I am hunting for a 50's Falcone, last time i checked there were about 70 on sale in the main website in italy. are there 70 potential new owners looking for Falcones? dont think so, but fully understand the pain of your "classic investment" going down 30% in price.
this is a very useful website, will tell you used prices all over the world, usa included
https://www.theparking-motorcycle.eu/
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Undervalued: assets, stocks, or items priced below their actual intrinsic worth, or people/efforts deemed less important than they truly are.
Intrinsic value: the calculated, "true" worth of an asset based on fundamental analysis (cash flows, assets, earnings) rather than its current market price. It represents an inherent, objective value used to determine if an investment is undervalued or overvalued.
I've always been told something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Not many people are willing to pay very much for used Moto Guzzis.
"Rare does not equal valuable" was never truer when considering what used Moto Guzzis sell for.
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Undervalued: assets, stocks, or items priced below their actual intrinsic worth, or people/efforts deemed less important than they truly are.
Intrinsic value: the calculated, "true" worth of an asset based on fundamental analysis (cash flows, assets, earnings) rather than its current market price. It represents an inherent, objective value used to determine if an investment is undervalued or overvalued.
I've always been told something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Not many people are willing to pay very much for used Moto Guzzis.
"Rare does not equal valuable" was never truer when considering what used Moto Guzzis sell for.
I get what you are saying, and completely agree. Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay, but it's also true that some Guzzi Models among the newer models (Griso, Racer, Stornello) and the older V7 Sport and now some Eldos are holding value very well. I see Griso's, Stornellos selling for what I paid for them. The Griso 10 years ago, and Stornello 8 years ago. Compare that to a Norge or Stelvio, or standard V7. I always wanted a Racer, especially the Heron Head with Candy Apple Red frame, but they never dropped low enough to consider.
"Rare" is also in most cases in the eyes of the beholder/buyer.....
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I've benefited from the current state of the market. A year ago a did a fly-n-ride to Florida for a 2004 Breva 750 that was listed here in the Swap Meet. It had one owner and was well loved and cared for with only 22k miles, top box, side cases, GPS, windshield, etc. I got it for $1400. I rode it down to the Keys and all the way back to Central Texas without any issues whatsoever.
The couple that I purchased my Baby Breva from had felt they had aged out of riding and sold both of their bikes. Of course replacing them with matching Porsches was some consolation. It is a really interesting time in motorcycling. The attrition of older riders isn't being replaced by younger riders at the same rate. At 55, I'm on the older side of "young", so I figure I should another 20 or so years of riding in me. Considering my budget for any used bike is $2-3000, my challenge is to find motorcycles that are in that range. It hasn't been difficult at all. I'm also pretty realistic when it comes to selling a bike. I've never made money off of a sale, but I've always felt like the new owners were a good match and my bikes would be in good hands.
On a side note, I'm considering purchasing a new bike and my wife asked me how many bikes total that would be. It would make five. She said, "that's so many". I asked her if it was "so many" in quotations marks, and she said no, "so many!" with an exclamation mark. :grin:
I have a short list of older bikes that for the right price, I'd like to try out (Nevada 750, Ducati Monster 620, Buell Lightning XB12Scg, Royal Enfield Classic 500, Honda NX250, Kawasaki Super Sherpa 250).
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I have a short list of older bikes that for the right price, I'd like to try out (Nevada 750, Ducati Monster 620, Buell Lightning XB12Scg, Royal Enfield Classic 500, Honda NX250, Kawasaki Super Sherpa 250).
I'd like to try a Honda ST, a Yamaha GTS1000, and a BMW K1600 for a few days to see if I could live with them (perhaps a couple of other odd-balls).
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I'd like to try a Honda ST, a Yamaha GTS1000, and a BMW K1600 for a few days to see if I could live with them (perhaps a couple of other odd-balls).
How are the used prices for those bikes?
It always surprises me how much Buell owners want for their Lightning XB’s. Rare to find one under $4k. Although I do regularly see Monster 620’s under $3k.
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Hey, Don’t call me cheap!
I’m considering not buying anymore, but renting
As I peruse the classified ads almost everyday I am drawn to the bikes i would like to “try” for a few days just to see what they’re like
I really would like to avoid the purchasing, insurance, storage, maintenance, repairs and reselling
Guzzi I’ve wanted to ride? Stornello, Griso, V11Sport, Big Breva.
I’ve suggested to several members here in Corn-eck-tee-cut we should just swap bikes with each other for a few weeks and stop all this purchasing
Just give me the damn bike for a few days and let me scratch that itch, then I’ll be done
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How are the used prices for those bikes?
It always surprises me how much Buell owners want for their Lightning XB’s. Rare to find one under $4k. Although I do regularly see Monster 620’s under $3k.
*WARNING*
Monster 620 (or any used Ducati desmo with some miles).
Unless you're happy replacing timing belts (and tightening them until they produce the right sound on a decimeter) and checking/swapping desmo valve shims, then a used Ducati might not be as cheap as it seems.
*WARNING*
My wife fell in love with the Monster 620 back in the day.
We eventually ordered her a brand spanky new beautiful Monster 696 from FBF.
She still has and loves it today (it will be 15 years in a few months).
In those 15 years of gentle riding we've stretched the desmo/belt service A LOT, like 5-7 years between them meaning we've only had the FULL service done twice so far.
And by full I mean that I hand the bike over and they go to town. Draining and resealing forks, new tires, belts, valve service, spark plugs, etc.
By the next time we perform that service, we will have bought that bike TWICE.
Meaning even if you buy a 620 for $3k you can easily double the price if you pay a dealer to perform that service, which is most likely why the bike is only $3k in the first place, the owner is selling it without doing that.
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*WARNING*
Monster 620 (or any used Ducati desmo with some miles).
Unless you're happy replacing timing belts (and tightening them until they produce the right sound on a decimeter) and checking/swapping desmo valve shims, then a used Ducati might not be as cheap as it seems.
*WARNING*
My wife fell in love with the Monster 620 back in the day.
We eventually ordered her a brand spanky new beautiful Monster 696 from FBF.
She still has and loves it today (it will be 15 years in a few months).
In those 15 years of gentle riding we've stretched the desmo/belt service A LOT, like 5-7 years between them meaning we've only had the FULL service done twice so far.
And by full I mean that I hand the bike over and they go to town. Draining and resealing forks, new tires, belts, valve service, spark plugs, etc.
By the next time we perform that service, we will have bought that bike TWICE.
Meaning even if you buy a 620 for $3k you can easily double the price if you pay a dealer to perform that service, which is most likely why the bike is only $3k in the first place, the owner is selling it without doing that.
This is not intrinsic to Ducati and probably most bikes. Relying on a dealership to perform service is going to be expensive no matter the brand or age of the bike. It only gets worse as the value of the bike is decreased meaning it hard to justify spending a large percentage of the value of the bike on service that essentially does not increase the value of the bike only maintains what little is left.
Older bike can be great values If you can do a lions share of the servicing and maintaining yourself.
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This is not intrinsic to Ducati and probably most bikes. Relying on a dealership to perform service is going to be expensive no matter the brand or age of the bike. It only gets worse as the value of the bike is decreased meaning it hard to justify spending a large percentage of the value of the bike on service that essentially does not increase the value of the bike only maintains what little is left.
Older bike can be great values If you can do a lions share of the servicing and maintaining yourself.
Of course it's not limited to only Ducati, but I do not concur with your use of the word intrinsic.
It is most certainly 100% intrinsic to Ducati because of the off-putting nature of their maintenance choices.
Specifically the desmo valves and the timing belts set like you're tuning a guitar make even fewer DIYers tackle it and the more frequent and higher costs keep more people away.
This same sort of pressure is not on a bunch of other brands (especially most from JAPanInc) where owners treat them like cars.
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Hey, Don’t call me cheap!
I’m considering not buying anymore, but renting
As I peruse the classified ads almost everyday I am drawn to the bikes i would like to “try” for a few days just to see what they’re like
I really would like to avoid the purchasing, insurance, storage, maintenance, repairs and reselling
Guzzi I’ve wanted to ride? Stornello, Griso, V11Sport, Big Breva.
I’ve suggested to several members here in Corn-eck-tee-cut we should just swap bikes with each other for a few weeks and stop all this purchasing
Just give me the damn bike for a few days and let me scratch that itch, then I’ll be done
Chuck, if you're ever down in VA, you're welcome to take any of my bikes out. Unlikely I will get the Griso or Stornello North your way, but I will likely pass through New England on the Norge or V85 this Fall.
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I'd probably make more money parting out my 07 Norge with 70,000+ miles than selling it as is, but I'm not ready to sell that bike as it's my only sit up bike with wind protection.
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I'd probably make more money parting out my 07 Norge with 70,000+ miles than selling it as is, but I'm not ready to sell that bike as it's my only sit up bike with wind protection.
<contemplating what my garage would look like with 2 red Norges :evil:>
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Of course it's not limited to only Ducati, but I do not concur with your use of the word intrinsic.
It is most certainly 100% intrinsic to Ducati because of the off-putting nature of their maintenance choices.
Specifically the desmo valves and the timing belts set like you're tuning a guitar make even fewer DIYers tackle it and the more frequent and higher costs keep more people away.
This same sort of pressure is not on a bunch of other brands (especially most from JAPanInc) where owners treat them like cars.
Agree or not is your choice but paying a dealer to service and/or maintain ANY motorcycle is going to be expensive no matter the brand.
Why is the same sort of pressure not on other brands? Every manufacturer states service intervals and specifies what is to be competed at these intervals. If an owner chooses to stretch, omit or neglect services that does not make them go away.
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Speaking of used bikes. I'm still in S. Az for another 3-4 weeks and have a really nice 2016 silver stone with full suspension rework and exhaust. 25000 miles in perfect condition with newer tires. It needs a new home right now or I'll haul it back to Ga where the market is slightly better on 4/10.
PM me if you might be interested in a good deal.
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*WARNING*
Monster 620 (or any used Ducati Desmo with some miles).
Unless you're happy replacing timing belts (and tightening them until they produce the right sound on a decimeter) and checking/swapping desmo valve shims, then a used Ducati might not be as cheap as it seems.
*WARNING*
Meaning even if you buy a 620 for $3k you can easily double the price if you pay a dealer to perform that service, which is most likely why the bike is only $3k in the first place, the owner is selling it without doing that.
That's pretty much why I've stayed away from Ducati's. Three of my riding/touring buddies used to own ST3's. They loved everything about them except for the maintenance costs.
Ed Milich of Guzzi Power/DucPower, always seems to have Monster 620's up for sale on CL and FB in the $3k range. Getting a Monster would really be just to "scratch that itch". I did that a couple years ago when I was Airhead curious. I found a 1983 BMW R65 in TN. The previous owner took it to Rick Jones of Motorrrad Elektrik in AL for me to make sure it was road worthy. As much as I enjoyed the 1200 mile ride back home, I knew the R65 was not for me. So five months later I sold it to a friend and got my V50 II as part of that deal.
I'm fortunate that I get the opportunity to try out different bikes. I don't consider buying a motorcycle to be an investment or a life long commitment, just having fun exploring what various bikes are about.
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Why is the same sort of pressure not on other brands? Every manufacturer states service intervals and specifies what is to be competed at these intervals. If an owner chooses to stretch, omit or neglect services that does not make them go away.
Because:
* Any monkey can change oil
* Many monkeys can even inspect valves (and change shims)
* Though it seems just monkeys just ignore shim and bucket valves on JAPanInc brand bikes and the major US brands mostly DO NOT HAVE ANY valve adjustments.
* And just about no OTHER monkeys have desmo valves, never mind TIMING BELTS that are supposed to be changed as frequently as every other year
* You can cross entire states in the US and not find an independent shop to do those things on a Ducati.
So with the possible exception of BMW owners paying dealer ask on the most recent model maintenance, MOST MONKEYS aren't going to have to spend 1/3 of the cost of their bikes on routine maintenance.
That's what makes a Desmo Ducati an outlier among outliers.
Jeezz why was that concept so hard to understand?
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That's pretty much why I've stayed away from Ducati's. Three of my riding/touring buddies used to own ST3's. They loved everything about them except for the maintenance costs.
Ed Milich of Guzzi Power/DucPower, always seems to have Monster 620's up for sale on CL and FB in the $3k range. Getting a Monster would really be just to "scratch that itch". I did that a couple years ago when I was Airhead curious. I found a 1983 BMW R65 in TN. The previous owner took it to Rick Jones of Motorrrad Elektrik in AL for me to make sure it was road worthy. As much as I enjoyed the 1200 mile ride back home, I knew the R65 was not for me. So five months later I sold it to a friend and got my V50 II as part of that deal.
I'm fortunate that I get the opportunity to try out different bikes. I don't consider buying a motorcycle to be an investment or a life long commitment, just having fun exploring what various bikes are about.
Ok, so arguing the other side - Milich has a great reputation and if he says the belts and shims are good you could go quite some time on them....
We little just got back from Jenn's first ride of the year on her beloved 696 and she's as happy as ever so there's that.
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*WARNING*
Unless you're happy replacing timing belts (and tightening them until they produce the right sound on a decimeter)
I can change and tighten the timing belts on an air-cooled 2 valve Ducati faster than I can get to and change the spark plugs on some japanese bikes I've owned. Now Desmo valve adjustment? That's a whole nother ball game! Always felt more like I was working on a Swiss watch than a motorcycle! Only thing missing was a Jewelers Loupe...and I could have used it!
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Because:
* Any monkey can change oil
* Many monkeys can even inspect valves (and change shims)
* Though it seems just monkeys just ignore shim and bucket valves on JAPanInc brand bikes and the major US brands mostly DO NOT HAVE ANY valve adjustments.
* And just about no OTHER monkeys have desmo valves, never mind TIMING BELTS that are supposed to be changed as frequently as every other year
* You can cross entire states in the US and not find an independent shop to do those things on a Ducati.
So with the possible exception of BMW owners paying dealer ask on the most recent model maintenance, MOST MONKEYS aren't going to have to spend 1/3 of the cost of their bikes on routine maintenance.
That's what makes a Desmo Ducati an outlier among outliers.
Jeezz why was that concept so hard to understand?
Timing belts on air cooled 2 valves take 20 minutes to change and the tension can be set with a 5 & 6mm hex key as go no go gauges. The valves are easy to check and if they need adjusted are no complicated to do, just follow the process.
Throwing BMW into the mix, same goes. Valves are dead simple to check and the hardest part about changing is doing the measuring/math to make sure you get the right thickness shim.
The same goes for any UJM shim and bucket set up.
Sure the “premium” brands charge a premium but in a lot of instances it’s not drastically more than a UJM shop and typically the “premium” brand mechanics are factory trained and not a shop monkey fresh out of tech school that got trained on 8 brands.
We all have choices and access to information that manufacturers make readily available like service intervals and tasks. Complaining about cost or intervals after buying should be done in the mirror as you made the decision to make the purchase. It’s like buying a Guzzi then complaining there is no dealer network.
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Even though I've done the majority of my own spannering for 4+ decades (with some full teardowns), the rigmarole of desmo valve adjustment is something I fortunately got away with not doing, before I sold my Monster. I've also shied away from changing shims, on my bikes, as having my bike in bits whilst sourcing the needed shims is just too much hassle. On at least two occasions I've borne the cost of taking a bike to a
stealer dealer, to get valve clearances checked/corrected and felt the pain in my wallet. There's a lot to be said for modern bikes with extended valve clearance intervals, such as the Speed Twin.
The above is a major deciding factor in deciding to go with Moto Guzzi 2-valvers, along with my much belated return to shaft drive.
P.S. The paranoia over changing belts on Ducs is laughable; I'll bet if the bike hasn't been unused for extended periods, they'll last for multiple years and at least 20k miles. Are they not Gates Kevlar reinforced or equivalent? I changed the ones on my "barn find" Monster because it hadn't been done in decades and though not perished/worn in the slightest at ~7k miles, they had a definite formed shape from being stationary. The (shorter/thinner head) tension roller bolts are made of chocolate steel, even the replacements!
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Even though I've done the majority of my own spannering for 4+ decades (with some full teardowns), the rigmarole of demo valve adjustment is something I fortunately got away with not doing, before I sold my Monster. I've also shied away from changing shims, on my bikes, as having my bike in bits whilst sourcing the needed shims is just too much hassle. On at least two occasions I've borne the cost of taking a bike to a stealer dealer, to get valve clearances checked/corrected and felt the pain in my wallet. There's a lot to be said for modern bikes with extended valve clearance intervals, such as the Speed Twin.
The above is a major deciding factor in deciding to go with Moto Guzzi 2-valvers, along with my much belated return to shaft drive.
P.S. The paranoia over changing belts on Ducs is laughable; I'll bet if the bike hasn't been unused for extended periods, they'll last for multiple years and at least 20k miles. Are they not Gates Kevlar reinforced or equivalent? I changed the ones on my "barn find" Monster because it hadn't been done in decades and though not perished/worn in the slightest at ~7k miles, they had a definite formed shape from being stationary. The (shorter/thinner head) tension roller bolts are made of chocolate steel, even the replacements!
Nice thing for my water cooled BMW boxers shim kits are cheap and easy to get ahead of time. While you can buy individual shims at the dealership like you I hate stopping in the middle of a project to wait on parts. I think I paid $79 for a shim kit off Amazon.
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The problem lies in the definition of “under” or “over” valued.
If I start with a bike that I pay $5,000 dollars for, that does not universally mean the “value” of my bike is $5,000.
It’s just that 5,000 dollars is a quantifiable expression of how much I want THAT bike, so that’s what THAT bike is worth to ME. :thumb:
Now if I keep that bike for a while and find out that Steve Mc Queen owned it from new and he kept it for 15 years and he rode it one of his movies…?
Now it’s “worth” $50,000 :thumb: :thumb:
We’re all good so far…
So because I (now) can’t afford health care, I sell the bike to Jay Leno for 50 grand, but horror of horrors, he subsequently finds out that the bike is merely a replica of the original, now the bike becomes “undervalued”… :sad:
Here’s the thing..
The bike is only brought back to the original value that I assigned to it, it was “worth” $5,000
When Leno had it, it was “worth” $50,000
Now it’s in his LA garage “worth” $5,000
Until someone finds out that Jay Leno once parked it on Sunset Boulevarde and took a piss, now it’s “worth” $50,000.
Because it’s ex Jay Leno.
I’d need to sniff the seat to make sure it really was ex Jay Leno, then of course I’d need a few moments with Jay, to make a comparison… :wink:
It’s all a load of crap, just buy your bike, love it, ride it and stop buying some pus bucket that you fell head over heels for in a 5 minute toss fest, then want someone to bail you out..
My ‘07 Norge is “worth” $30,000..
Why ?
Easy, because I said so… :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :bike-037:
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All this talk about older bikes has me thinking of getting another Convert at some point.
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<contemplating what my garage would look like with 2 red Norges :evil:>
I can answer that…
Like this.
Italy.
(https://i.ibb.co/wF6jm9KJ/IMG-3379.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wF6jm9KJ)
Healesville (Australia)
(https://i.ibb.co/TB8L3bmB/IMG-4175.png) (https://ibb.co/TB8L3bmB)
Funny thing is..
The one in front is worth $30,000
The other is worth $7,000
Inexplicably, one looks “prettier” than the other, now how can that be ?
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Timing belts on air cooled 2 valves take 20 minutes to change and the tension can be set with a 5 & 6mm hex key as go no go gauges. The valves are easy to check and if they need adjusted are no complicated to do, just follow the process.
Throwing BMW into the mix, same goes. Valves are dead simple to check and the hardest part about changing is doing the measuring/math to make sure you get the right thickness shim.
The same goes for any UJM shim and bucket set up.
Sure the “premium” brands charge a premium but in a lot of instances it’s not drastically more than a UJM shop and typically the “premium” brand mechanics are factory trained and not a shop monkey fresh out of tech school that got trained on 8 brands.
We all have choices and access to information that manufacturers make readily available like service intervals and tasks. Complaining about cost or intervals after buying should be done in the mirror as you made the decision to make the purchase. It’s like buying a Guzzi then complaining there is no dealer network.
Meh
None of it is insurmountable.
But that doesn't make the different brands or their customers the same.
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The paranoia over changing belts on Ducs is laughable; I'll bet if the bike hasn't been unused for extended periods, they'll last for multiple years and at least 20k miles. Are they not Gates Kevlar reinforced or equivalent? I changed the ones on my "barn find" Monster because it hadn't been done in decades and though not perished/worn in the slightest at ~7k miles, they had a definite formed shape from being stationary. The (shorter/thinner head) tension roller bolts are made of chocolate steel, even the replacements!
I mostly agree. Though there is the side that theorizes the tight bend on the belts and sitting that way for extended periods may make them take a set and fail prematurely.
Obviously I believe in our usage pattern enough that I've gone as long as 7-8 years and feel ok and it. They also came off the bike looking pretty good. I was going to have my big bro (materials science engineer) do some destructive analysis but never got around to it. I still have them and should send them to him to see if he can give us any other thoughts. I think he wanted to see some failed ones for comparison which I don't have and didn't care enough to find, but maybe I should.
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Agree or not is your choice but paying a dealer to service and/or maintain ANY motorcycle is going to be expensive no matter the brand.
Why is the same sort of pressure not on other brands? Every manufacturer states service intervals and specifies what is to be competed at these intervals. If an owner chooses to stretch, omit or neglect services that does not make them go away.
I don't know this from personal experience, but from observation and conversation what I understand, the valve service on some of the Ducati motors is on a completely different level than almost any other. It's the combination of the valve shims, but also that crazy belt cam thing 'desmodo' or whatever they call it. I've had many motorcycles bucket over shim, cam chain, tensioner adjustments, water pumps etc etc, And have completely rebuilt a range of Muscle CARS, VW GTI/Audi, Saab, Porsche from air-cooled to water cooled, but Ducatti's like Lamborghinis and Ferraris are way over complicated, and choir far more expertise, tools and knowledge for my blood.
And no, I don't need anybody to school me on what the proper name is. I really don't care, and I will likely never own a Ducati.
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I have never owned a Ducati let alone ever ridden one nor do I have any desire to do either. They just do not do a thing for me. The way the engines are mounted looks un-natural. I had a V100 and wasn't looking forward to the first major service. Happy again with my 2 valved air-cooled V7.
kk
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It’s all a load of crap, just buy your bike, love it, ride it and stop buying some pus bucket that you fell head over heels for in a 5 minute toss fest, then want someone to bail you out..
My ‘07 Norge is “worth” $30,000..
Why ?
Easy, because I said so… :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :bike-037:
I'm really enjoying how lively this thread has become with the mention of Ducati, Monster and Desmo :evil::popcorn:
And isn't falling "head over heels" part of the fun with motorcycles? :drool: We all know that other makes come and go, but Guzzi's are forever :kiss:
I never have a problem selling a bike if I have it priced right. I've gotten some really great deals over the years, so selling a bike for less than I had anticipated is actually fine. Besides, how can you put a price tag on a "5 minute toss fest"?
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I could answer that last question, but Dan would belt me…
As for “falling head over heels”, yes that is the fun of hooking up with a new flame, however when you’re sick to death of her, you don’t expect someone to want her as much as you did.
You WILL lose money on a bike.
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On a side note, I'm considering purchasing a new bike and my wife asked me how many bikes total that would be. It would make five. She said, "that's so many". I asked her if it was "so many" in quotations marks, and she said no, "so many!" with an exclamation mark. :grin:
I have a short list of older bikes that for the right price, I'd like to try out (Nevada 750, Ducati Monster 620, Buell Lightning XB12Scg, Royal Enfield Classic 500, Honda NX250, Kawasaki Super Sherpa 250).
Eons ago, Peter Egan wrote an article discussing how many bikes one needed. After much thought, the number he and his riding buddies arrived at was five.
At work one morning a friend and I were discussing the bikes we owned. Another friend's wife, whose husband also rode, joined the conversation and asked "How many bikes do you need? You can only ride one at a time!"
I replied "Peggy, don't try to understand this. It is like a man trying to understand how many pairs of shoes a woman needs!"
She replied "Actually, now I do understand!"
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Besides, how can you put a price tag on a "5 minute toss fest"?
I hear some people actually do that for a living....
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warms my heart to hear the GRiSO spoken of in such reverent tone. Hopefully it holds it's allure. I bought at what will likely turn out to be high on my one 'classic' Guzzi, but I wasn't doing it as an investment. Perhaps my GRiSO will offset that. That is if I ever let it go, which is inconcievable to me currently. I'm fully and absolutely smitten.
Hamlin's attention to detail shouldn't be taken into account when discussing 'dealers selling used bikes'. He is simply on a different level, with no peer. If I was looking for a new-to-me machine, a fly n ride from his inventory would be option 1, 2 and 3. Let alone: I'm a CARC fan and he is a CARC whisperer. If you ever get a chance to scrutinize a build of his, do it. It will either motivate you to perform at a higher level, or just give up trying. I hope that as a community we can make the business lucrative for him - and Cadre - so that we can continue to have them putting properly sorted Guzzi's on the road for as long as they feel so inclined.
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I have never owned a Ducati let alone ever ridden one nor do I have any desire to do either. They just do not do a thing for me.
How could you possibly know if you've never even ridden one?
I have a friend that just got back from Daytona Bike. While there, he demo rode a Guzzi 850TT. His review, "I hated it! Worst motorcycle I've ever ridden." Now I could have guessed that his opinion would have been something like that. He likes to ride hard and fast (his cars are a C8 Corvette and a new Tesla Model S) and his bike is an FJR. This was the very first (and I suspect last) time he'd even thrown a leg over a Moto Guzzi. But I knew since he rides "balls to the wall," any motorcycle with less than 100 horsepower is simply underpowered in his opinion. So, I was not at all surprised by his dismissive opinion. But at least he RODE the bike before forming that opinion!
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"Peggy, don't try to understand this. It is like a man trying to understand how many pairs of shoes a woman needs!"
She replied "Actually, now I do understand!"
I had the same discussion with my wife, unfortunately she is good at math and quickly calculated that her large shoe collection doesn't come close to the cost of all of my bikes. So I've never gone there again with shoes vs bikes.
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My wife is my wingman when it comes to buying bikes. She rides along to get most of them helping me load/unload them and also checks FBMP several times a week to see if there is something I might be interested in.
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My wife is my wingman when it comes to buying bikes. She rides along to get most of them helping me load/unload them and also checks FBMP several times a week to see if there is something I might be interested in.
My wife is supportive and tolerant. Part of that is whatever I do has to be cash, comes out of the 'hobby fund' and doesn't impact the family budget. She just rolls her eyes when I bring another one home. The best part is she now looks for cars/motorcycles like mine.
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My wife is supportive and tolerant. Part of that is whatever I do has to be cash, comes out of the 'hobby fund' and doesn't impact the family budget. She just rolls her eyes when I bring another one home. The best part is she now looks for cars/motorcycles like mine.
That’s the way it rolls around here, cash money that doesn’t affect the family. She use to give me flack but now she doesn’t say a word and tolerates me going on about them. :bike-037:
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Quote from my girlfriend:
"It's your money, buy whatever ya want....."
She's a lovely lady, don't you think? :laugh: :thumb: :wink:
-Stretch
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I'd like to try a Honda ST, a Yamaha GTS1000, and a BMW K1600 for a few days to see if I could live with them (perhaps a couple of other odd-balls).
Here you go, under $2000.
https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/mcy/d/point-pleasant-beach-2005-honda-st1300/7919067314.html
(https://i.ibb.co/9HncxxwQ/IMG-4014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9HncxxwQ)
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My wife says "you need to buy another bike to work on you are sitting in my house too much"
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That ST1300 is what I'm talking about. If you just want a nice bike to
ride and aren't fussy about the manufacturer, there are some REALLY
nice deals out there!
You MIGHT ride that one away for $1500. Even with new tires, taxes,
and insurance, you're still on the road for under $3K with a bike that will
last 100K.
Not at all a bad deal these days.
-Stretch
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another sub $2000 Honda ST
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/234641669626757/?mibextid=wwXIfr&rdid=lCAL5Ch8Om6fNosc&share_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fshare%2F18Y74gmjY2%2F%3Fmibextid%3DwwXIfr#
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Well, there's a reason those ST1300 sell for silly prices, nobody ever heard of the "Pan Weave"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_ST_series#:~:text=Evidence%20indicates%20the%20ST1300%20can,owners%20had%20experienced%20the%20weave.
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Well, there's a reason those ST1300 sell for silly prices, nobody ever heard of the "Pan Weave"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_ST_series#:~:text=Evidence%20indicates%20the%20ST1300%20can,owners%20had%20experienced%20the%20weave.
I was actually reading up on that yesterday
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How could you possibly know if you've never even ridden one?
I have a friend that just got back from Daytona Bike. While there, he demo rode a Guzzi 850TT. His review, "I hated it! Worst motorcycle I've ever ridden." Now I could have guessed that his opinion would have been something like that. He likes to ride hard and fast (his cars are a C8 Corvette and a new Tesla Model S) and his bike is an FJR. This was the very first (and I suspect last) time he'd even thrown a leg over a Moto Guzzi. But I knew since he rides "balls to the wall," any motorcycle with less than 100 horsepower is simply underpowered in his opinion. So, I was not at all surprised by his dismissive opinion. But at least he RODE the bike before forming that opinion!
Sounds like the perfect candidate for a Darwin Award.
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Eons ago, Peter Egan wrote an article discussing how many bikes one needed. After much thought, the number he and his riding buddies arrived at was five.
I remember reading that and I think 4-5 is about right.
At work one morning a friend and I were discussing the bikes we owned. Another friend's wife, whose husband also rode, joined the conversation and asked "How many bikes do you need? You can only ride one at a time!"
Motorcycles are like golf clubs they all do different things.
Used motorcycle prices are low so the smart money is buying used now, especially brands like Harley, Guzzi, KTM, and BMW which lately seem to depreciate more than most.
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Hadn't heard of the "Pan Weave" before. Now I know.
-Stretch
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Well, there's a reason those ST1300 sell for silly prices, nobody ever heard of the "Pan Weave"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_ST_series#:~:text=Evidence%20indicates%20the%20ST1300%20can,owners%20had%20experienced%20the%20weave.
Also, very heavy, and very warm, especially in summer weather.
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Back in the day when I was hooked on Japanese IL4s, I sold my C10 Concours with 100K miles before heading to Iraq in 2001. When I came back in 2003, I bought an FZ1 and promptly wrecked on the Cherohala skyway (pushed off the road by a lane crosser). Anyway, after taking a couple years back on my XS1100, I figured it was a good time to cross shop. Looked at the FJR, 1400 Concours, VFR, ST12/1300, BMWs RT, Triumph ST(?) and a few others. The VFR was tasty, but too sporty and the ST was OK, but the motor was so smooth it was weird and felt bland and dead. I ended up on an FJR. Looking back, I should have gone back to a C10 Concours.
Never a Guzzi or Guzzi Dealer in sight back then.
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Quote from my girlfriend:
"It's your money, buy whatever ya want....."
She's a lovely lady, don't you think? :laugh: :thumb: :wink:
-Stretch
Actually, I like the motorcycle For Sale Sign that says:
Motorcycle For Sale. Apparently, "do whatever you want" doesn't mean what I thought it did!" :grin:
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Sounds like the perfect candidate for a Darwin Award.
You'd think, but no. He's in his 50's. Some people seem to be able to get away with it forever without repercussions.
Me, I get a speeding ticket doing 10 over. Then there was that time I got stopped for riding my ZX-12 110 in a 55. Getting arrested kinda takes all the fun out of it. But hey, that was 25 years ago.
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I had the same discussion with my wife, unfortunately she is good at math and quickly calculated that her large shoe collection doesn't come close to the cost of all of my bikes. So I've never gone there again with shoes vs bikes.
Have her do the math on resale value.
Finally we have a comparison to put a good spin on Guzzi resale value.