Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jacksonracingcomau on May 01, 2026, 06:07:29 AM
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I caught up with a bunch (gaggle? flock ? mercy?) of BMW riders today.Talking at fuel stop, one asked me why I ride my Guzzi .
I actually couldn’t bring myself to tell him,
would you be the bee that tells the fly that honey tastes better than shit ?
MH
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Should have asked them why they don't ride Harley's. Friends don't let friends ride BMV
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Wow guys. All bikes are cool.
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I started riding BMW’s in 1985 with the introduction of the K bike . For 1985 it was a tremendous bike ! I put over 200k miles on it with only maintenance as scheduled ! During that period a SP1000 shared garage space with it . I was much younger then & had different priorities. I parted ways with the Guzzi . It went to a good home & was campaigned for a few years,then I lost tack of it. Then a few R1150’s were cycled through the fleet finally ending with a R1200r ! As I got older & riding habits changed I started looking fo a lighter & lower bike . My local dealer was a BMW dealer as wel as a Guzzi dealer ! The V7 bikes locked close to fitting my needs @ that time . An extended test ride & a good price on a leftover V7II sealed the deal .Once sorted the bike grew on me as the miles accumulated. Light,easy to handle & maintainance similarly easy as previous bikes . Also a decent accesory network & rider info network (such as this one)is invaluable !Well one thing leads to another , and when the V7/850 came out , well ya know ! I now have 2 V7’s ! See ya on the road !
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For years I rode a Wing to Guzzi breakfast & rallies (before I had a Guzzi) and no one said anything to me about my choice of rides or excluded me from an event. Fast forward to present day...I show up to the local BMWMOC for the (old geezer) Wednesday ride every week on either my Eldo, LMIVSE, v85 or one of the other turds I have and again, no one has ever asked me why I show up to a Beemer ride on something other than a bmw. The way I kinda look at it is that it is more about the ride experience with others having the same interest than what we rode in on. And, it is because of the the lack of brand prejudice that I've had a great time, met nice folks & made lifelong friendships. I hope it never ends.
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The differences between (thinking vintage) BMW and Moto Guzzi are not that great. Kind of similar to the Swedes and Norwegians who are more alike than they are different from each other. And they are not exactly in love with each other either. :grin:
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The differences between (thinking vintage) BMW and Moto Guzzi are not that great. Kind of similar to the Swedes and Norwegians who are more alike than they are different from each other. And they are not exactly in love with each other either. :grin:
and they both like to play practical jokes on the Finns...just for fun of course!
Although there are many quite funny jokes about Swedes vs. Norwegians and vice versa...all good natured and not malicious of course!
:)
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Owned a ‘75 R90S from 1977-1986.Great bike but not very reliable. After several reliable but boring BMW K75’s decided on the ‘08 Guzzi 1200 Sport in 2013. Reminds me so much of the R90S but with more power, better handling and reliability. Never looked back..
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I think BMW riders fall generally into two camps... the first are the people that have been riding BMW's a long time, maybe starting with a /6 or /7. The classic airheads. Usually lifelong riders that have piled a ton of miles on. Not sure what they may be riding NOW, but they appreciate the old air heads and generally "GET" the newer Moto Guzzi's. This group, however, is probably aging out pretty quick...They are not the type that would ask "why are you riding that?" Rather, they would nod in approval or give you a thumbs up. They get it.
The second camp are the nuevo BMW riders, usually a high end model, all the accessories, every bit of riding gear BMW branded. They have a new 7 series car in the garage, and the latest M3 on order. Perhaps they have never ridden anything that didn't have a BMW logo on it. This group will never get it, nor is there any real appreciation for heritage or for having respect for someone who has been riding longer than they have been alive and knows what matters and what one truly wants and needs in a motor bike.
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I bought my Guzzi LeMans in ‘78. Then bought a Beemer R100RT in ‘84 so I could tour with my wife. Had that bike for 20 years and put 226,000 miles on it. Despite the similarities it was never as reliable as my LeMans. Bad valves and seats, melting diode boards, solid state ignition failures. Later I carried a spare hall sensor, rotor and stator. Good thing it was easy to repair even on the road.
As for the riders, a few fit the stereotype but most are just riders same as all brands.
Pete
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I caught up with a bunch (gaggle? flock ? mercy?) of BMW riders today.Talking at fuel stop, one asked me why I ride my Guzzi .
I actually couldn’t bring myself to tell him,
would you be the bee that tells the fly that honey tastes better than shit ?
MH
You should have replied that you are still a fellow motorcycle elitist snob, just not a BMW elitist snob or a Harley Davidson elitist snob!
I'm sure they would have understood! :wink:
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My lone BMW in a forest of Guzzis.
(https://i.ibb.co/BKLfQGVF/IMG-2091-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BKLfQGVF)
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They never wave at you. Kind of like Harley riders
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35 years ago, I was bombing around on a Yamaha FJ1100. I went to 3 Guzzi rallies with my uncle; one in Arkansas,1 in Washington state and 1 in Arkansas. No one gave me any grief for being on an off-brand bike. After the Iowa rally, I bought a Cal II and have since owned 5 others.
The lack of brand bullshit is why I ride a Guzzi today.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
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My lone BMW in a forest of Guzzis.
(https://i.ibb.co/BKLfQGVF/IMG-2091-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BKLfQGVF)
During my first cross country motorcycle trip, me on my ‘71 Norton and my brother on his ‘69 750 Honda we were coming back on the Trans Canada Hwy in British Columbia. I see a single head light about a 1/2 mile back in my rear view steadily gaining on us. After a few miles he passed us going maybe 80 MPH on his slash 2 BMW. My experience with BMWs then were I left them behind at the stoplights. We tried to keep up but at 80 MPH the Norton starts to sound like a bucket of bolts and had to back off. Thats when I learned the difference between sprinters and marathon runners and gained a lot of respect for BMWs.
This before I had ever ridden a Guzzi.
Pete
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My first big bike was an R50/2. 80 mph was only a dream.
kk
Edit: It didn't help that I lived in Denver where the mile high altitude didn't help.
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We rode R60 2 up with camping gear all over Alaska and back to Chicago and it never missed a beat.I didn’t know what I was missing until I got a Guzzi but have great memories of that ride.
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My first big bike was an R50/2.
I want to save that quote for posterity! It's for the next time someone questions me that >500cc is into "middleweight" bikes - a phrase not a unit of measure. :angel:
[After my wee SS50, the Z200 felt like a 'grown up' bike, mainly due to features and a big Rickman fairing on it. ]
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I was in BMW land for about 20 years 97-17. 84 R100RS, 97 R1100RS,04 R1150RT and finally 03 K1200RS. A Victory and a Harley thrown in during those years also. I was strongly into the BMW rally scene. I enjoyed them very much when I went to them. I really liked the rallies and didn't practice brand elitism or actually hear any of that. More often riders were interested in non-BMW bikes especially Guzzis. Every BMW rally always had between 3 and a dozen Guzzis. It has been Guzzi only for me since 2017. The Guzzi rallies remind me of the older BMW rallys when there were still many airheads represented. Those 99-08 BMW rallies felt more like family reunions where you could meet people from all walks of life, many who had bikes that had never been serviced by anyone but their owners. However, as the years passed and the bikes became far more expensive and the airheads and their riders became fewer, the character changed at the rallies. It seemed to me that it switched over to what I call "credit card" riders as they were the ones that could afford the bikes so the atmosphere was a little different at rallies. I have not been to a BMW rally since the mid teens. Guzzi rallies still feel like those older BMW rallies where it feels like a family reunion atmosphere and there are plenty of affordable bikes and many that still work on their own and a bigger cross section of our general population. The rallies are the high point of my year.
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My first bike was a Yamaha 80. Second was a Yamaha YDS3 250 then the R50. Big bike by comparison. The one of the very first R75/5's. The last and best was an R90/6. My V7lll was very much like that R90 from what I remember of that bike. My V7 850 is a whole new direction in a good way, the best bike I have ever owned.
kk
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Yamaha YDS3
Must've seemed like a rocket. :smiley:
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14 HD's, 7, BMW's, 3 Guzzis, misc other bikes... The only answer is what "speak to you".. Only the HD and Guzzi do to me. End of story.
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I think BMW riders fall generally into two camps... the first are the people that have been riding BMW's a long time, maybe starting with a /6 or /7. The classic airheads. Usually lifelong riders that have piled a ton of miles on. Not sure what they may be riding NOW, but they appreciate the old air heads and generally "GET" the newer Moto Guzzi's. This group, however, is probably aging out pretty quick...They are not the type that would ask "why are you riding that?" Rather, they would nod in approval or give you a thumbs up. They get it.
The second camp are the nuevo BMW riders, usually a high end model, all the accessories, every bit of riding gear BMW branded. They have a new 7 series car in the garage, and the latest M3 on order. Perhaps they have never ridden anything that didn't have a BMW logo on it. This group will never get it, nor is there any real appreciation for heritage or for having respect for someone who has been riding longer than they have been alive and knows what matters and what one truly wants and needs in a motor bike.
This is it exactly. The old school airhead guys love Guzzi’s. I restored a ‘71 /5 years ago, and rode it for 10 years. Took me 5 years, and way too much money to build. I dragged it out of my HS buddy’s shed after a couple decades. Regret selling that one
(https://i.ibb.co/5gg7yZ7y/BC7-B3-B2-E-6117-4-D92-AB19-5-CAB993-C75-D9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5gg7yZ7y)
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Yeah, the old BMW R90/6 was one of my favorite bikes. When I was working for BMW Motorcycles I picked one up with a blown gearbox, put it back together with a sport cam, dumped the Windjammer fairing and some other questionable "accessories", put lower "S" bars on it, and did a bit of "tuning". It also had the smaller "toaster" tank. Was a damn fine running bike! Became my benchmark for what I really wanted in a motor bike. Regret selling it (it went to a Hollywood stunt-women who was a really cool person as her daily driver!). The V7 hits the mark for me, but handles and brakes way better than a 90/6, 90S, and even the latest R100S. On so many levels it just feel right for me...
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That’s a hell of a lot of responses in two days…!
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I’m generally surprised that anyone on the Wild Guzzi website, would diss BMW riders, or any others.
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I’m generally surprised that anyone on the Wild Guzzi website, would diss BMW riders, or any others.
I’m not surprised at all. Always felt to me like a large portion of Guzzi owners are old farts stuck in their ways.
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I’m not surprised at all. Always felt to me like a large portion of Guzzi owners are old farts stuck in their ways.
….and now we are putting members here down, based on aging?? Really?
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BMW's and Guzzi's are very similar, except Moto Guzzi has style and details. Ive had them both and Im nuts for the Italian flair.
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….and now we are putting members here down, based on aging?? Really?
As a person who was raised by grandparents and understands the word curmudgeon, the demographic of passionate Guzzi owners, and has seen and experienced such at rallies…
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………..yes, I feel fairly confident in my assumption :grin:
I’m 100% willing to bet that the majority of folks dissing BMW owners have either been riding around since at least the early 90s, or if not, are simply continuing the jokes and quips that started back then and before. Maybe we should turn that into a poll.
Also, campfire—I’m saying all this lightheartedly. I’m visiting PA at the end of the month. If you see me on the road, stop me and I’ll buy you a drink.
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I’m not surprised at all. Always felt to me like a large portion of Guzzi owners are old farts stuck in their ways.
….and now we are putting members here down, based on aging?? Really?
It's not really a put down if it's true! I go to Airheads meetings occasionally, cause the Guzzi riders up here don't want to do much except complain they don't have enough free time to ride!
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This is it exactly. The old school airhead guys love Guzzi’s. I restored a ‘71 /5 years ago, and rode it for 10 years. Took me 5 years, and way too much money to build. I dragged it out of my HS buddy’s shed after a couple decades. Regret selling that one
(https://i.ibb.co/5gg7yZ7y/BC7-B3-B2-E-6117-4-D92-AB19-5-CAB993-C75-D9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5gg7yZ7y)
Exactly the same color scheme and tank as the '70 I had. The '76 90/6 was a much better bike. The very early /5's were over geared. Supposedly they were setup for the autobahn, that's what we were told anyway.
kk
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At what age exactly does a young fart turn into an old fart? :thumb: :thumb:
Out riding today, and at my local stop was a nice Guzzi V7 Stone, a Triumph Bobber, 2 Harleys, 1 Yamaha and an old Goldwing.
Was cool to see everyone enjoying and asking everyone about their bikes...as good as it gets. Perfect day of riding after the last 2 days of storms....
Life a fart in the wind...gone in a second!
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BMW…
Vanilla ice cream served on a wooden spoon..(with a personality to match..)
All washed down with a nice glass of German distilled water.
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BMW…
Vanilla ice cream served on a wooden spoon..(with a personality to match..)
All washed down with a nice glass of German distilled water.
Many prefer that :wink:
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That’s a hell of a lot of responses in two days…!
That's how reflexes work Bro! :azn:
Even with Old Farts! :wink:
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Hmm..., I ride both. Wonder what kind of fool that makes me?
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….and now we are putting members here down, based on aging?? Really?
Never once in my life have a met an Old Fart who felt they were being put down when someone called them an Old Fart.
Same goes for Rednecks. Both labels are Badges of Honor!
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It's not really a put down if it's true! I go to Airheads meetings occasionally, cause the Guzzi riders up here don't want to do much except complain they don't have enough free time to ride!
Old people.... they're all like that! :wink:
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For any who are having trouble discerning the dividing line between curmugeondom/Old Fartdom, Andy Huggins has a tutorial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ37S7Osf8U
If you don't need someone to explain the jokes to you, you know which campfire you are sitting around...
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I've been around a few BMW snobs same as some of the Harley, Goldwing, dirt bike, or any others. But I find most riders accept others no matter what they're on.
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It's not really a put down if it's true! I go to Airheads meetings occasionally, cause the Guzzi riders up here don't want to do much except complain they don't have enough free time to ride!
When I go to one of bobrebos1 lunch runs, always at least as many BMW's present as Moto Guzzi's, if not more! Draw your own conclusions.
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All brands that tend to follow a certain ethos, ie HD, BMW, Guzzi have developed tropes about their riders. In many cases they are accurate, but far from all. If you have spent even a little time around long time a time Guzzi riders, you should have a pretty good idea what Guzzi riders are known for.
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I rode airheads for 27 years, but was always curious about Guzzis. One day I found a T3 and bought it. A few months later, the T3 was the one being ridden and the PD stayed at home. The beemer is great for traveling and long trips. I've crossed the country several times on them. But now they feel awkward to me - tall, handle funny, different power curve...
Like all things, they're not perfect, so you pick what's important and go with what checks the most boxes. Learn to live with and deal with the imperfections.
Several years back I got a 72 Norton Commando project and joined the Norton Club for help. They're a bunch of old guys, a lot of them riding Nortons since they were young. They don't care that I ride to the meetings on a G5, 87LM or the 1000S copy. We all park in front of the pub - 20 or 30 bikes - and one month the news-letter cover photo showed the string of bikes and foremost in the frame was my 1000S copy. One of the members told me he really wanted a 1000S back when they were new. We have all manner of bikes showing up besides Nortons - Triumph, BSA, Ducati, Vincent, Indian, BMW, Harley, Suzuki... Anything and everything, with many members owning several different brands. They may be a bunch of older guys, but they've still got fire in them and they like to ride.
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But now they feel awkward to me - tall, handle funny, different power curve...
I would be very interested in learning about the power curve differences.
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It's not really a put down if it's true! I go to Airheads meetings occasionally, cause the Guzzi riders up here don't want to do much except complain they don't have enough free time to ride!
Do you have to dress like a Power Ranger when you go to the airhead meetings? Or is that more for the GS crowd?
Asking for a friend.
:)
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I’m generally surprised that anyone on the Wild Guzzi website, would diss BMW riders, or any others.
Absolutely!!! I have 3 Guzzi's in the stable and 1 BMW. I for one love all bikes but do have my preferences.
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I caught up with a bunch (gaggle? flock ? mercy?) of BMW riders today.Talking at fuel stop, one asked me why I ride my Guzzi .
I actually couldn’t bring myself to tell him,
would you be the bee that tells the fly that honey tastes better than shit ?
MH
Really?
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When I go to one of bobrebos1 lunch runs, always at least as many BMW's present as Moto Guzzi's, if not more! Draw your own conclusions.
Sure thing...for the most part I'll ride my BMW to a Guzzi gathering and a Guzzi to a BMW gathering. It's all about fellowship and not what brand you ride!
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What we’ve got here, is a practicing of the fine art of taking the piss (leave it to an Aussie)…
…and responses from those who don’t like piss anywhere near them.
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I would be very interested in learning about the power curve differences.
Not a direct comparison but if you look at a Buell Ulysses 1200 and a Camhead R1200 (both air cooled 1200cc twin cylinders) on paper the HP and torque numbers are almost identical. If you throw a leg over either and grab a handful of throttle you'll find where and how they make power is very different. The Buell makes power right off idle to about 5500 PRM and feel like a its going to rip your arms off your body. The BMW makes power starting around 3500 to 7500 RPM's and is far more linear making it deceptive.
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..... The '76 90/6 was a much better bike. The very early /5's were over geared. Supposedly they were setup for the autobahn, that's what we were told anyway.
kk
Interesting because the 76 R90/6 I had felt under geared, simply too low (high numerically) given the nice power and torque the engine made. I bought it used in the 1980's and it was a homely brown color. The owners manual showed two final drives available with mine having the lower 3.09, the taller being 2.91 (I believe). When I asked my dealer about the optional taller FD he said all the 90/6 that Germany had sent to them had the lower gearing because of our 55 mph speed limit, and probably US cycle magazines obsession at the time with 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.
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I had a very early /5 with the very high gearing. It would go almost as fast in as it would in 4th. The /5 only had a 4 speed whereas the /6's had a 5 speed so probably one difference in the gearing. I was told by my dealer that the gearing was changed in short order. I would have liked to change it but it was way too much $. The 90/6 was a much better bike, I upgraded to one several years later after 100K on the /5.
kk
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I never road a Beemer but my friend and next door neighbor, who recently passed away at 87, was a BMW / Triumph guy. He had several of both currently running and a long list of past owned. He was such a likeable guy and I never saw him turn his nose up to anyone. Boy I miss hanging out with him in the garage.
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The old time bmw riders are not the problem.Like some new er Harley owners some new bmw riders think they are cooler than riders of other brands ,maybe because they have more money?
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Do you have to dress like a Power Ranger when you go to the airhead meetings? Or is that more for the GS crowd?
Asking for a friend.
:)
If you mean high tech and expensive gear, well I don't have any unless you include my new Bell helmet and it's not a top of the line one in iridescent colors. Reading some of the posts here, I'd guess there's more "power ranger" gear worn by Wild Guzzi riders than Fairbanks Airheads. Here's a pic from last falls meeting; I'm on the far right and the v65 is parked next to the blue barrel.
(https://i.ibb.co/tGX9nJm/Airheads.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tGX9nJm)
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Until now, I was unaware that you could get the R75/5 and R90/6 with the 2.91 final drive ratio - I thought it was only used standard on the R100RS. You learn something every day. AFAIK, the standard FDR for the R75 was 3.20, the R90 used 3.09, the R90S 3.00 and the R60 3.36. You could order your new BMW with any of the ratios they offered for sale, though, if you wanted taller of lower gearing. Personally, I love tall gearing in order to bring the revs down. If I need more power/revs, I can simply change down a gear or two.
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If you mean high tech and expensive gear, well I don't have any unless you include my new Bell helmet and it's not a top of the line one in iridescent colors. Reading some of the posts here, I'd guess there's more "power ranger" gear worn by Wild Guzzi riders than Fairbanks Airheads. Here's a pic from last falls meeting; I'm on the far right and the v65 is parked next to the blue barrel.
(https://i.ibb.co/tGX9nJm/Airheads.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tGX9nJm)
Big Jon,
What is the light blue, or silver bagger, parked on the right side of the scooter. Maybe a Moto Guzzi SP ?
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Big Jon,
What is the light blue, or silver bagger, parked on the right side of the scooter. Maybe a Moto Guzzi SP ?
That's likely a BMW. I've only seen one other Guzzi at the Airheads, a brown T upgraded to T3 specs, and don't think he was at this meeting. I was talking to the "pink lady" about her fancy new scooter when they took the pic. The bagger probably wasn't anything interesting enough to remember; if you've seen one BMW, you've seen'em all!
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Until now, I was unaware that you could get the R75/5 and R90/6 with the 2.91 final drive ratio - I thought it was only used standard on the R100RS. You learn something every day. AFAIK, the standard FDR for the R75 was 3.20, the R90 used 3.09, the R90S 3.00 and the R60 3.36. You could order your new BMW with any of the ratios they offered for sale, though, if you wanted taller of lower gearing. Personally, I love tall gearing in order to bring the revs down. If I need more power/revs, I can simply change down a gear or two.
faffi I know there was a taller ratio option from the 3.09 that mine had but you're right I was going from memory it probably was the 3.00 rather than 2.91. That would make sense as that is what was in the 90S. My 81 R100RS had a 2.91 which I far preferred over the 90/6 3.09.
Yes I prefer wide ratio, taller gearing on most motorcycles. Unfortunately many 6-speeds now have the same spread (or even less) as what 5-speeds often had, we don't get a low 1st or tall 6th, instead we just have to shift more often.
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You are correct, even the 100hp+ liter bikes of the 70s and 80s had pretty wide ratio gearboxes. For instance, the Yamaha FJ1200 had a ratio of 2.56 between first and top gear, and the Guzzi 850 T3 had a ratio of 2.67. My V9 calculates to 2.84. According to gearingcommander, the old BMW airheads had a massive 3.41 ratio! A BMW S1000RR has a ratio of 2.1, the Honda CBR1000RR only 2.0.
Basically, if a Honda CBR1000RR is geared to do 60 mph in first gear at redline, top speed will be limited to 120 mph. If my Roamer was geared the same way for first (60 mph at redline), it would theoretically reach 170 mph in top. Another way to put it, is that in order to reach a 210 mph top speed for racing, 1st gear would need to go to 105 mph on the CBR. That is about the same as my old KZ400 did in sixth. Geared for the same top speed, my V9 would top out at 74 mph in first, an old Beemer airhead only 62 mph.
For daily riding, most riders would likely prefer a ratio between 2.5 and 3.0, depending on the use. This will give relatively stressless takeoffs, even on steep hills with passenger and luggage, while at the same time offer relaxed cruising on the highway.
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You are correct, even the 100hp+ liter bikes of the 70s and 80s had pretty wide ratio gearboxes. For instance, the Yamaha FJ1200 had a ratio of 2.56 between first and top gear, and the Guzzi 850 T3 had a ratio of 2.67. My V9 calculates to 2.84. According to gearingcommander, the old BMW airheads had a massive 3.41 ratio! A BMW S1000RR has a ratio of 2.1, the Honda CBR1000RR only 2.0.
Basically, if a Honda CBR1000RR is geared to do 60 mph in first gear at redline, top speed will be limited to 120 mph. If my Roamer was geared the same way for first (60 mph at redline), it would theoretically reach 170 mph in top. Another way to put it, is that in order to reach a 210 mph top speed for racing, 1st gear would need to go to 105 mph on the CBR. That is about the same as my old KZ400 did in sixth. Geared for the same top speed, my V9 would top out at 74 mph in first, an old Beemer airhead only 62 mph.
For daily riding, most riders would likely prefer a ratio between 2.5 and 3.0, depending on the use. This will give relatively stressless takeoffs, even on steep hills with passenger and luggage, while at the same time offer relaxed cruising on the highway.
You are correct. I suspect one of the purposes of the close ratio gear boxes of the high performance bikes of the last 20 years is limit available torque to prevent riders from killing themselves. Imagine riding a modern bike with the 100 mph first gear, if all the gears were the same as the older bikes. People would be flipping their bikes over left and right.
I recall my brother and I were stunned when our then new 1979 Yamaha XS750's hit 70 mph in second gear. They seemed to be geared so much higher than previous bikes we owned!!
A few years back a friend and I were riding back roads and we swapped bikes. I handed over my SV650 to ride his CBR1000R. Even on 40mph back roads I was in fourth gear trying to find an rpm where the bike did not have "too much power." IIRC the bike was geared for close to 100mph in first. Out on the open road a mild roll on at 70 mph in third gear had the front wheel in the air.
Now of course, all that can be "fixxed" with electronics.
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Back in the day, I remember the Z1300 "hit the headlines" with break the speed limit (70mph) in 1st.
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I hope I DON't upset anyone to much here but after coming home from a Guzzi rally 1 time after going to many Guzzi & BMW rallies thru the years my wife asked me what the difference was between the two. My answer was out before i actually gave it thought.
"The women at Guzzi rallies are older and less attractive."Just 1 man's opinion that day.
I am sorry if I've offended anyone.
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Back in the day, I remember the Z1300 "hit the headlines" with break the speed limit (70mph) in 1st.
It would do 56 mph in 1st at redline, but the speedo would be showing 60 by then. And the engines would freely rev way past its 8000 rpm redline, so I am sure many ham fisted riders saw 70 mph indicated.
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Just remembered that my Kawasaki Vulcan 800 had a very wide ratio gearbox as well, with a ratio of 2.95 between first and fifth. It made its 56 hp @ 7000 rpm, compared to 55 hp @ 6250 for the Guzzi V9.
Both bikes hit 39.5mph in first at maximum power, the the next steps are broader on the Kawasaki until they both reach 100 mph in the second to tallest gear; 4th for the 800 and 5th for the V9. Top gives a theoretical 117 mph for the Kawa and 113 mph for the Guzzi. So pretty similar, but with the luxury of an extra gear in the Guzzi, but also one less shift needed with the Kawa. The engines did feel fairly similar, but if I could choose, I would opt for the Kawasaki VN800 unit; best clutch ever, and absolute spotless fuelling, plus a wet clutch. Otherwise, I find the Guzzi to be the better motorcycle.
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It would do 56 mph in 1st at redline, but the speedo would be showing 60 by then. And the engines would freely rev way past its 8000 rpm redline, so I am sure many ham fisted riders saw 70 mph indicated.
I must be senile. :cry:
Something else fubar?
AI Overview
The Kawasaki Z1300 is known for having very tall gearing, allowing it to reach speeds of approximately 80–90 mph in first gear.
1st Gear Speed: Reports indicate first gear is geared high enough to reach roughly 140 km/h, which is approximately 87 mph.
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My brother used to own a 1979 Z1300 (KZ in the US) and I owned a 1984 Z1300 DFI. There is no way in whatever they would do 80 or 90 mph in first gear.
Max speed in each gear: First: 56 mph, 2nd: 77 mph, 3rd: 100 mph, 4th: 119 mph and 5th: 137 mph.
Here are the ratioes, easily double-checked on google, allowing you to do the calculations yourself: 1st 2.29 (39/17), 2nd 1.67 (35/21), 3rd 1.28 (32/25), 4th 1.07 (29/27), and 5th 0.93 (27/29). Final drive ratio is 3.18 (35/11) but the fuel injected touring version (ZN) has a 3.40 ratio to cope with the extra weight. For those not interested in doing their own calculations, I suggest you look up gearingcommander.co m and get the numbers without any math on your own.
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I had a BMW R1100GS and remember when the R1150GS came out featuring the 6-speed. I thought to myself an extra gear allowing for a lower 1st for off road, slow going through campgrounds, traffic, etc, and a taller 6th for highway is just what my 1100 needed. I bought a new 2000 R1150GS and on the way home stalled it twice starting off because 1st was so tall. 6th was nice and tall but they ruined 1st making it even taller than the 1100. Who at BMW chose that 1st gear ratio for an adventure motorcycle? I didn't need to be able to go 50mph in 1st but I wanted to be able to go under 10mph!
Speaking of adventure and dual sport motorcycles these categories more than any other benefit from a WR transmission. The same bike that might be loaded down 2-up, crawling its way up a rutted Jeep road might also be used to ride 80 mph 2 days straight across Kansas and Nebraska. I've noticed most manufacturers don't seem to understand how important WR transmissions are for these bikes and just use the same unit from a street bike leaving the same ratios then thinking adding 2-3 teeth to the rear sprocket cheaply solves the problem. It doesn't. 1st is still too tall and now they've ruined 6th. Tenere 700, CB500X, the new KLE500, are just three that come to mind. There are 6 ratios to utilize, spread them out FFS. Rant over....
On a positive note I noticed on my R1300GS that BMW raised up 5th and 6th gear from the earlier R1200/1250.
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Ain't nothin' beats 1st hand experience. :azn:
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How's the power band different? Difficult question - but I think it's like the one answer already given: the airhead is more gradual from lower RPMs than the T3 etc. I have to give the Guzzi more throttle taking off than the airhead. But the guzzi feels more responsive to the throttle, and that could be partly due to the CV carbs versus Dellortos. The airhead feels more mild and relaxed.
Saying that the Guzzi is a better bike than the airhead is an opinion based on personal preference. The airhead is a touring bike that can be ridden pretty damn sporty, while the Guzzis are, at heart, racing bikes that can be toured. The loops, I'm thinking, are more like Beemers than the normal Guzzis, though I've never ridden one.
I didn't know that about gear ratios for the airheads being lower to compete with the 0-60 1/4 mile crowd. Interesting info! I liked my 90/6 much better with a 3.0 final drive and didn't notice any drop in power.
One thing I was going to mention is the difference in the kind of people attracted to different machines. Even though the BMWs and Guzzis are pretty similar, they're still worlds apart. They have their similarities - shaft drive, engine/trans configuration, high quality, old school engineering - yet, they're very different. The sensibilities of the organizations that created them were very different and that imprinted itself in what they built. Even the fact that there's a very poor dealer network for the Guzzis while there are BMW dealers everywhere is part of that picture. It takes a particular person with unique traits to find Guzzis fitting into their lives.
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Still have my'93 R100GS RD. Only complaint is the auto retract side stand. :laugh: Same complaint as my '80 SP1000NT light blue. Have that too. :boozing: :boozing:
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How's the power band different? Difficult question - but I think it's like the one answer already given: the airhead is more gradual from lower RPMs than the T3 etc. I have to give the Guzzi more throttle taking off than the airhead. But the guzzi feels more responsive to the throttle, and that could be partly due to the CV carbs versus Dellortos. The airhead feels more mild and relaxed.
Saying that the Guzzi is a better bike than the airhead is an opinion based on personal preference. The airhead is a touring bike that can be ridden pretty damn sporty, while the Guzzis are, at heart, racing bikes that can be toured. The loops, I'm thinking, are more like Beemers than the normal Guzzis, though I've never ridden one.
I didn't know that about gear ratios for the airheads being lower to compete with the 0-60 1/4 mile crowd. Interesting info! I liked my 90/6 much better with a 3.0 final drive and didn't notice any drop in power.
One thing I was going to mention is the difference in the kind of people attracted to different machines. Even though the BMWs and Guzzis are pretty similar, they're still worlds apart. They have their similarities - shaft drive, engine/trans configuration, high quality, old school engineering - yet, they're very different. The sensibilities of the organizations that created them were very different and that imprinted itself in what they built. Even the fact that there's a very poor dealer network for the Guzzis while there are BMW dealers everywhere is part of that picture. It takes a particular person with unique traits to find Guzzis fitting into their lives.
Thank you for taking the time to elaborate!
I have very limited time on both airheads and Tontis, but enough to form an impression. The Beemers have this annoying trait of going up four inches before moving forward. Their suspension is as bad is it gets in my book; soft springs held in check somewhat by too much compression damping. I prefer it when the springs hold the machine up, getting comfort from reduced compression damping. The Beemers also have/had bands of vibration that is less than comfy, combined with narrower bands of smooth running. Handling is of a kind that make me uneasy; the suspension and perhaps CoG and geometry in combination with the crazy lifting/sinking of the rear due to the shaft drive and short swingarm force me to be both gentle and very alert during cornering.
I have ridden an old V7 from 1971, which I hated in every way possible, not helped by the reverse shifter and lack of brakes. Well, I think they look good - I can still look long at ad pictures of the original 700. I have also ridden a Cali II, which again felt awkward. Very lazy engine, weird handling, peculiar riding position what with the footboards. Like the Beemers, the switchgear was not to my liking. Same with the Lario 650, although it handled more like a normal motorcycle, and the engine was not as lazy. Riding position was not for my body, with handlebars too low and pegs too far forward. Then came a Cali EV-i. The riding position was the worst of any bike I have ridden, and getting the gearbox to engage a gear - any gear - from neutral was hit and miss. Mostly miss. And the engine had a huge dip of torque in the midrange. Other than that, this was a bike I liked: Smooth engine, enough top-end, good brakes (apart from the annoying linked thingies) and fine handling. I would love to test ride a standard version of the EV, with a normal riding position and pegs instead of boards. The only Guzzi I have ridden that have an engine that deliver performance from idle to redline is my V9.
I think it would be much easier to get an older Guzzi Tonti to ride the way I want than a BMW. And reduce the flywheel together with carbs/exhausts matched to elevate the midrange for smooth, strong power from idle to redline would be required. Other than finding an airhead with Paralever, I cannot see myself being happy with a Beemer.
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Since we'r swapping points of view here is mine. In the mid '70s, my buddy and I rode to Daytona from Maryland through the eastern mountains. He on a Beemer and me on my '74 MG V7 Sport. The Beemer felt soft like Buick, the Sport like a sports car.
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I’ve owned several, maybe 10, Guzzi’s from an Eldo and G5 through the V11 Sport.
I’ve also owned a handful of BMW’s, mostly airheads, and a few K75’s and oilheads.
I have enjoyed both brands virtues, and weathered with their deficiencies.
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This puts it all into perspective - a quote from chopperman on adventure rider:
Well BMWs are like the Hot German Scientist chick. Glasses, prim, mannered, efficient. She can solve quadratic equations while kicking your ass with kung-fu moves. You have to approach her on her terms and then she will bring you ecstasy in the most efficient manner possible using techniques she learned from an ancient Kama Sutra she discovered on a sabbatical in India.
Guzzis on the other hand, are the art school wild child. long, wind-tossed hair and mischievous winks. She will redecorate your house into a turkish harem while you are away on a business trip and greet you with absinthe tainted kisses. You will go out for pizza with her and wind up somewhere in the Mojave, tequila drunk and shooting cactus with a stolen pistol.
It's very true - once I learned how the airhead WANTED to be ridden, how to be treated, what it liked or not, it worked very well. The Guzzi on the other hand feels normal and is more like an extension of myself.
I'm not a floor-board guy either. And I prefer the sport bikes over cruisers - it's the ergos, and also what I like to look at. As for the vibrations, I've found both to be very smooth and turbine-like. They both have some roughness around 3K and the beemers have another harmonic around 4K. But it's not bad, really. There are other factors, like out-of-balance wheels/tires, unbalanced flywheel/clutches, alternator rotors, but also just normal tuning. Getting both cylinders matched and balanced is the tricky part. It seems like it can be 99% there, but that last 1% is where the magic happens and it really feels right. That goes with both Guzzis and airheads. I've gotten used airheads that I know would never have been sold if they'd only been tuned properly. When they're out of tune they feel like crap.
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This puts it all into perspective - a quote from chopperman on adventure rider:
Well BMWs are like the Hot German Scientist chick. Glasses, prim, mannered, efficient. She can solve quadratic equations while kicking your ass with kung-fu moves. You have to approach her on her terms and then she will bring you ecstasy in the most efficient manner possible using techniques she learned from an ancient Kama Sutra she discovered on a sabbatical in India.
Guzzis on the other hand, are the art school wild child. long, wind-tossed hair and mischievous winks. She will redecorate your house into a turkish harem while you are away on a business trip and greet you with absinthe tainted kisses. You will go out for pizza with her and wind up somewhere in the Mojave, tequila drunk and shooting cactus with a stolen pistol.
It's very true - once I learned how the airhead WANTED to be ridden, how to be treated, what it liked or not, it worked very well. The Guzzi on the other hand feels normal and is more like an extension of myself.
I'm not a floor-board guy either. And I prefer the sport bikes over cruisers - it's the ergos, and also what I like to look at. As for the vibrations, I've found both to be very smooth and turbine-like. They both have some roughness around 3K and the beemers have another harmonic around 4K. But it's not bad, really. There are other factors, like out-of-balance wheels/tires, unbalanced flywheel/clutches, alternator rotors, but also just normal tuning. Getting both cylinders matched and balanced is the tricky part. It seems like it can be 99% there, but that last 1% is where the magic happens and it really feels right. That goes with both Guzzis and airheads. I've gotten used airheads that I know would never have been sold if they'd only been tuned properly. When they're out of tune they feel like crap.
Ain't no Guzzi rider going to some fancy pizza joint when Golden Corral has early bird BOGO coupons :thumb: