Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: SLDMRossi on August 18, 2026, 08:20:24 PM
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I've already informed my local dealer (Hamlin Cycles -- Bethel, CT) that I plan on buying a Moto Guzzi Trip 500. So much so, that I've requested Serial No. 1 from the U.S. Importer.
No doubt, there's controversy about the parallel twin engine ... but those that think that the Moto Guzzi V-Twin and Shaft Drive are the be-all-and-end-all are not digging deep enough into Mandello del Lario history. Because there were certainly plenty of Singles, both four-stroke and two-stroke. Including Flat, Inclined and Vertical. With chains and sprockets, too.
For Moto Guzzi to remain relevant they must stay in tune with the market. Affordable singles and twins from offshore sources is the only segment of the new motorcycle market (along with e-Off Roaders) that's growing. A good example is Triumph's 400: 50,000 sold in one year! Royal Enfield, meanwhile, has come from zero to hero.
And the competition continues to accelerate. Since I already have a parallel twin Benelli TNT 300 (which has been bullet-proof and fun, fun, fun!), I was waiting for the reinvented Morini 3 1/2 to arrive. But that's been dragging on for so long, my sights are being reset toward the Moto Guzzi Trip 500. Coincidentally, I just spent the weekend on my V50.
So moving forward, do keep an open mind. There's no right or wrong answer here. Just what works for you, personally...
More to follow,
Steven Rossi
CT-RI MGNOC State Rep.
East Haddam, CT
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I am genuinely impressed Moto Guzzi is putting a bike like this to market. I was hoping for a modern interpretation of a Falcone but this is a good looking bike with some decent performance figures for the capacity.
Nice job Moto Guzzi.
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Tooling up a new engine and bringing it to market is a colossal expense. And being a Falcone fan/owner, I hear ya'.
But I have another motorcycle that went through that exercise. It's called an MZ 1000S. After returning to the market (when the Berlin Wall fell), MZ hit the street with Rotax...and then Yamaha-powered...machines. They started to make inroads. So then, they did their own 125 with positive results. But ultimately flew too close to the sun with their own 1000 Twin...which drove them into bankruptcy.
So, Moto Guzzi's doing the right thing by leveraging the Aprilia (leading Moto GP, by the way...ahead of Ducati) relationship. After being connected to Mandello del Lario for 45+ years...and having watched/lived through so many tumultuous times...there's no doubt that Piaggio is the best thing that ever happened to them.
SR
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The TRIP 500 must be an aprilia. It's just an TUONO 457 with a more retro look. I don't see the MOTOGUZZI touch. Not built in Mandello (in india), no V twin, no "simple" bike. Just a bland honda CB500 like. I would have loved an new interpretation of Falcone. Don't see a market for this in europe. Vespa has a nice lineup, Aprilia is a bit too focus in sport bikes (don't sell that much in europe).
I fear that TRIP 500 will water down the brand. And don't understand the timing lauch after the renewal of the original plant in Mandello.
The BENELLI clones was not the best of the GUZZI...
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Tooling up a new engine and bringing it to market is a colossal expense. And being a Falcone fan/owner, I hear ya'.
But I have another motorcycle that went through that exercise. It's called an MZ 1000S. After returning to the market (when the Berlin Wall fell), MZ hit the street with Rotax...and then Yamaha-powered...machines. They started to make inroads. So then, they did their own 125 with positive results. But ultimately flew too close to the sun with their own 1000 Twin...which drove them into bankruptcy.
So, Moto Guzzi's doing the right thing by leveraging the Aprilia (leading Moto GP, by the way...ahead of Ducati) relationship. After being connected to Mandello del Lario for 45+ years...and having watched/lived through so many tumultuous times...there's no doubt that Piaggio is the best thing that ever happened to them.
SR
I had an MZ, a 660cc single, Sport Cup. An East German with a Yamaha engine, but the engine was reportedly designed and built in of Italy. I liked MZ, and we have one of their former MZ dealers and racers here in Mass, BikeWorx, now in Acton, MA.
https://www.bikeworx.com/ (https://www.bikeworx.com/)
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I've already informed my local dealer (Hamlin Cycles -- Bethel, CT) that I plan on buying a Moto Guzzi Trip 500. So much so, that I've requested Serial No. 1 from the U.S. Importer.
No doubt, there's controversy about the parallel twin engine ... but those that think that the Moto Guzzi V-Twin and Shaft Drive are the be-all-and-end-all are not digging deep enough into Mandello del Lario history. Because there were certainly plenty of Singles, both four-stroke and two-stroke. Including Flat, Inclined and Vertical. With chains and sprockets, too.
For Moto Guzzi to remain relevant they must stay in tune with the market. Affordable singles and twins from offshore sources is the only segment of the new motorcycle market (along with e-Off Roaders) that's growing. A good example is Triumph's 400: 50,000 sold in one year! Royal Enfield, meanwhile, has come from zero to hero.
And the competition continues to accelerate. Since I already have a parallel twin Benelli TNT 300 (which has been bullet-proof and fun, fun, fun!), I was waiting for the reinvented Morini 3 1/2 to arrive. But that's been dragging on for so long, my sights are being reset toward the Moto Guzzi Trip 500. Coincidentally, I just spent the weekend on my V50.
So moving forward, do keep an open mind. There's no right or wrong answer here. Just what works for you, personally...
More to follow,
Steven Rossi
CT-RI MGNOC State Rep.
East Haddam, CT
Outstanding!!
Everyone should buy what they like and ride what they like!!
If motorcycles were smaller and cheaper, we would all be like women buying shoes!
And we would be loving it!
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P. S. -- there's also another Moto Guzzi buyer dynamic going on here. A number of "mature" Guzzisti stepped up and bought -smaller- V85 TTs. As they now get a little older (it's been seven years since the V85 landed), they're coming to the realization that tall TT's are not that much -smaller- or -lighter-. Particularly, when you push them around the garage with a full tank of fuel.
In addition to offering a more affordable path of entry into Mandello del Lario ownership, the Trip 500 will provide a viable alternative for aging Guzzi guys and gals. It's a base of buyers that the company very much needs to protect...which will ultimately help to perpetuate the brand. Myself included...
You could also say that the V7 offers that option, which it does...for some. But for a lot of us it's still more of the same. In my case and point, as the owner of a V50 and Breva 750.
Yes, new models do bring technological plusses and minuses with them. While all the electronic control might be a bit stupefying to some, there's no doubt that better braking and safety is a routine upside with the latest introductions. Which is also not a bad thing for an aging audience...
SR
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I had an MZ, a 660cc single, Sport Cup. An East German with a Yamaha engine, but the engine was reportedly designed and built in of Italy. I liked MZ, and we have one of their former MZ dealers and racers here in Mass, BikeWorx, now in Acton, MA.
https://www.bikeworx.com/ (https://www.bikeworx.com/)
Yamaha owned Minarelli during that time period and the MZ's 660 engine was built there, but was Yamaha designed. Minarelli is now owned by Fantic.
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I had a SZR660 with the very similar engine to the Sport Cup, and loved that bike at the time. It was however a sales dud, and many a moto journalist did not like it. I did, and thats what mattered to me. To replace it in 2004 I got a Breva750, and have not looked back since.
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If it doesn't have a transverse twin and shaft drive, I'm not really sure what the point of buying a Guzzi is. There's plenty of other twin 500s out there with a more widespread dealer network that can get you parts faster than 2-3 months
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I'm not sure what took them so long. I thought for sure when the Shiver came out that was the prelude to a crossover bike for Moto Guzzi. That seems so long ago now.
-AJ
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I had a SZR660 with the very similar engine to the Sport Cup, and loved that bike at the time. It was however a sales dud, and many a moto journalist did not like it. I did, and thats what mattered to me. To replace it in 2004 I got a Breva750, and have not looked back since.
I always lusted after a Yamaha SZR660. They never made it to the US.
It always looked like a blast. I suspect if it was brought to the US, it would not have sold.
Practical Sportbikes did a story on a custom model that looked even better than the original (in my eyes).
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Moto Guzzi ownership provides something that very few others offer ... Community! Such as this Forum,
SR
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Moto Guzzi ownership provides something that very few others offer ... Community! Such as this Forum
And that community will die once there is nothing to distinguish the bikes from a field of increasingly generic competitors. It's not just the name on the tank, its enduring values.
I've been to the MZ museum in Zschopau where they were made, and recommend it if you're ever in the area. The factory was demolished except for a few buildings that were repurposed, so the museum occupies one floor of the castle in the middle of town. I'd love to have an MZ 250 Trophy Sport. They sell for real money in Germany. People still appreciate the best of what MZ made even if an MZ1000 sells for peanuts. The latter was just too generic.
I bought a used 2020 V85TT with 1700 miles hoping for a bike with character that matches its looks. In the end despite trying to like it, I was disappointed and sold it with 12,000 miles. It felt like a scooter, not a motorcycle, which as a Piaggio/Aprilia design should not be too surprising, and was replaced by a low mileage '92 BMW R100GS. After upgrades and restoration the R100GS cost more than the V85TT and I do not anticipate selling it any time before I can no longer ride a motorcycle!
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Moto Guzzi ownership provides something that very few others offer ... Community! Such as this Forum,
SR
I can not determine from your text if you consider that a good thing or a bad thing... :wink:
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When it comes to the Moto Guzzi community, it's just as much about the people, as it is the bikes...that's the enduring value.
SR
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When it comes to the Moto Guzzi community, it's just as much about the people, as it is the bikes...that's the enduring value.
SR
Well said! I concur.
I suspect whether the bikes change or not, the positive aspects of the rider's personalities will remain the same.
Until the day we all get "Borged!"
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Resistance is futile!
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SR, I'm looking forward to seeing one, if I don't buy something else first. Looked at the Aprilia 457 Tuono, Triumph 400 Thruxton, and RE Continental GT in the last few months. The Tuono, upon which the Trip is based, was ok, but the styling didn't "trip" my trigger. (Sorry!) The Triumph is still under consideration since there is a dealer within 50 miles but I did not get to see one before the rumors of the Trip came out so I will wait, although if they came out with one with nickel frame plating and Rickman blue paint I'd be all over it. The RE struck me as a bit agricultural and top heavy and has been ruled out.
You know, there is just something special about an Italian motorcycle.
I still might buy something used, though at my age and size I have the same rule with dog ownership as I do with bikes: If I can't pick it up off the ground without assistance, I have no business owning it.
Hope you get serial #0001!
Kip
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I suspect whether the bikes change or not, the positive aspects of the rider's personalities will remain the same.
If you look at the US BMW culture from say 2000 until today, I think you’ll find as I did that it changed completely with the bikes and their design philosophy. The positive aspects are gone.
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If you look at the US BMW culture from say 2000 until today, I think you’ll find as I did that it changed completely with the bikes and their design philosophy. The positive aspects are gone.
You might be right. That would be a great thread topic that might last decades.
I would have thought the Beemer guys started complaining with the introduction of the 4 valve Boxer engine in 1995(?). If a manufacturer pursues more sales by selling to everybody, including the riffraff, instead of appealing only to the elites, it makes sense that the culture changes.
I recall some Harley guys bemoaning the transition from cast iron engines to aluminum.
Air cooling v. water cooling. Drum brakes v. disc brakes. Carbs v. fuel injection.
It would also be a great basis for a potential doctoral thesis in psychology!
Then again, us old farts are always claiming the past was better!
"After they introduced the automatic transmission, no one knew how to drive!"
"When I was your age, we didn't.......! Get off my lawn you damn kinds!"
Seriously though, it is always fascinating to see what people let influence their perspectives and behavior.
"Between stimulus and response, man has the ability to choose!" Viktor Frankl
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Moto Guzzi ownership provides something that very few others offer ... Community! Such as this Forum,
SR
No matter what brand motorcycle I have every owned I have found a forum, forums and/or a "good community" to support it. I don't think WG or MG owns the patent on good community.
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No matter what brand motorcycle I have every owned I have found a forum, forums and/or a "good community" to support it. I don't think WG or MG owns the patent on good community.
I have found the same to be true. :thumb:
Then again, everyone gets to determine what the inkblot means to them!! :wink:
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Moto Guzzi TRIP 500 - :cool: :thumb: :boozing: :bow:
(https://i.ibb.co/mVhDq15L/Screenshot-2026-08-20-at-5-32-56-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/mVhDq15L)
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I can imagine the die hard singles Guzzi crowd sneering at the V700 in 1967. :grin:
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As I look at the variety of motorcycles Guzzi has produced over the years, It's amazing to me to see how much resistance there is to the new Trip 500.
No doubt my ideal motorcycle is air cooled and shaft drive. And Guzzi has developed and refined this formula and diversified it. But they are single dimensioned and really only operate in 2 or possibly 3 dimensions if you want to break the V85 out of the V7/9 group. There is the V7/9/85 family and now the V100 Family. Guzzi is static other than that. It is what makes the brand, and an argument can be made that in the US market the entry price is at the low price point, but the market globally and even in the US has a large and growing group of low priced bargain bikes. Think CF Moto, the 400 Triumph, etc etc. I think a 500cc 'Guzzi' based on the Aprilia is a great idea, if they get the styling right. I'd of course love to see them go upmarket, and firmly believe if it wasnt for the environazi Euro 4-5-5+ killing off of the 1400 8V motor that they would have put a large dent in the large cruiser market. Even today, I have seen several people show real interest in the 1400's, but when they see it is discontinued, they waive off.
I think it is a great move, provides variety, and a lower price point and smaller offering on proven engineering. I started on air cooled shaft drives in the 80's and in the late 90's went water cooled till 2015. I'll likely not go back to water cooled again. My 'old man' last man standing bike will likely be the Stornello unless I ever get my act together and find a Side Car to adapt to the Convert, or find a decent well set up rig.
**EDIT.... Looking at these PICS, I may reconsider. https://lamoto.com.ar/noticias/moto-guzzi-prepara-una-ruptura-historica-the-trip-500-la-naked-a2-con-motor-aprilia/ If this is truly the finished model, this looks great to me, and is very tempting.**
And the V85 is so good, I'm looking at the Norge and wondering if I should sell it. I'll keep the GRiSO forever, and will stay in my garage, but It may get too big/heavy at some point.
But who knows. I'll wait till I see the trip in the flesh, but Steve Rossi has me thinking I may want Serial #2 :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Moto Guzzi ownership provides something that very few others offer ... Community! Such as this Forum,
SR
No doubt, but having transitioned from XS1100's and Vintage Yamahas, to Concours, to FJR's, IMNSHO, you sell the larger 'community' short. I still have close friends from the Yamaha XS days and the Concours Owners Group was one of the best I've ever been part of. And........... (sorry folks) there are a LOT of crybabies on this forum and way too much drama for my liking sometimes.
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Looking at the picture JJ posted, that is one fine looking motorcycle. Lot nicer than a lot of others in that range.
kk
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You know, there is just something special about an Italian motorcycle.
A generic lightweight Aprilia design with a Guzzi badge built in Baramati, India is something special? Not by my definition. No more so than a Piaggio (Vespa) built 'Gilera' (RIP) scooter.
I doubt many here care much about Moto Guzzi as a company but honestly, from my perspective as a student and admirer of Moto Guzzi for 40 years I think Moto Guzzi died with Umberto Todero. He never had a real protege in the way Carlo Guzzi had several, including Todero and Carcano who designed the V-twin engine. There was a continuous succession of design philosophy from 1921 to 2005 until Todero was gone, with John Wittner filling in at the end to try and keep it going. Giuseppe Ghezzi (designer with Todero of the MGS-01) could have taken over (he was hired in 2003) but instead once Todero was gone Piaggio fired Ghezzi, dismantled Guzzi and now its just a badge and an old plant that they use for nothing more than assembly and publicity purposes, with Aprilia and Piaggio developing the bikes.
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Moto Guzzi TRIP 500 - :cool: :thumb: :boozing: :bow:
(https://i.ibb.co/mVhDq15L/Screenshot-2026-08-20-at-5-32-56-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/mVhDq15L)
That is a nice looking bike!!
It's direct competitors are many, including the Aprilia 457, Kawasaki Z500, CF Moto 450NK, Honda 500, etc.
I suspect that if the above bikes were all disguised, most riders would be happy with any of them. Unless they are looking for the wrong application. Say an interstate couch carrying 450 lbs of rider and a week's luggage that can drone along at 80 mph.
Anyone who would not enjoy riding any of the above bikes, on the roads they were designed for, IMO, can't blame the bike itself.
Could be a mental software security filter is engaged.
For my purchase money, OEM support, and dealer support would play a much bigger role than the badge on the tank. Regarding the history (true or false) of the OEM, as many have noted on this forum, the days of purity of manufacturing are largely over.
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All of the photos in this thread so far are computer generated "renderings", not the actual end product. The real deal will most likely be displayed at EICMA.
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Congrats if that is the bike for you. Ride and let ride I say.
But, I picked up a 15,000 mile 2017 Roamer, very well equipped for a tad over $4,000.00 ready to ride. Real metal tank and fenders, real round guage. Not very heavy. Feels and sounds like a Guzzi. Just saying, there are lots of alternatives.
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Congrats if that is the bike for you. Ride and let ride I say.
But, I picked up a 15,000 mile 2017 Roamer, very well equipped for a tad over $4,000.00 ready to ride. Real metal tank and fenders, real round guage. Not very heavy. Feels and sounds like a Guzzi. Just saying, there are lots of alternatives.
Sounds like a good buy. $4-5,000 buys an awful lot in the used motorcycle market lately.
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How about a Guzzi 2 stroke,just a Benelli 250 with Moto Guzzi on the tank.
https://youtu.be/St7-YynNE4Q?si=ILO6w3wTDnIGOciG
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There are a few "spy" photos of the masked pre-production models
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-the-trip-500-parallel-twin-spy-shots/
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It’s a sad day when Guzzi enthusiasts embrace a rebadged Aprilia
Just my opinion
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https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&channel=entpr&q=moto+guzzi+trip+500#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:525ec972,vid:FcWPYnjbUnE,st:0
Good looking bike.
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https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&channel=entpr&q=moto+guzzi+trip+500#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:525ec972,vid:FcWPYnjbUnE,st:0
Good looking bike.
Top left-hand corner reads: "AI", so it's just another computer generated guess at what it will look like. Until a "spy" photographer gets a shot of an undisguised one, Guzzi releases official photos, or it's shown at EICMA, we won't know what it really looks like.
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Do you think way back when there were a bunch of old crotchety Guzzi riders calling out "if it doesn't have a bacon slicer fly wheel, I ain't riding it!!!”
-AJ
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Do you think way back when there were a bunch of old crotchety Guzzi riders calling out "if it doesn't have a bacon slicer fly wheel, I ain't riding it!!!”
-AJ
No, and neither is anybody today taking any similar position. This is not a discussion about more advanced designs replacing obsolete designs, it is a discussion about a once proud European company being reduced to a corporate brand selling generic, midgrade technology made in India by somebody else.
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No, and neither is anybody today taking any similar position. This is not a discussion about more advanced designs replacing obsolete designs, it is a discussion about a once proud European company being reduced to a corporate brand selling generic, midgrade technology made in India by somebody else.
Market realities, and if it helps make Guzzi more profitable to keep the core brand alive and healthy, and provide a more accessible on ramp to the brand, I say more power to them. Glad they are not ceding the fast growing sub 500cc market.
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Market realities, and if it helps make Guzzi more profitable to keep the core brand alive and healthy, and provide a more accessible on ramp to the brand, I say more power to them. Glad they are not ceding the fast growing sub 500cc market.
Yep. If Moto Guzzi or any other OEM decides the past is what must define them, they will cease to exist in the present or at best, the future will bypass them.
after decades of making four strokes, Honda saw the writing on the wall in the early 70's and started making two strokes.
Has anybody bought any rotary dial landline phones recently?
My Mother-In-Law kept her analogue TV long after it could not receive any broadcasts simply because it was a great looking piece of furniture.
The interesting question to me is will current motorcycle OEM remain wedded to ICE motorcycles, or embrace electric vehicles? The one's that choose to survive will build whatever the buyers want to buy.
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Market realities, and if it helps make Guzzi more profitable to keep the core brand alive and healthy, and provide a more accessible on ramp to the brand, I say more power to them. Glad they are not ceding the fast growing sub 500cc market.
What it will do is dilute Moto Guzzi over time to the point that the ‘brand’ becomes meaningless. Like Gilera under Piaggio. Don’t know much about Gilera, which was behind the development of the now-typical transverse inline four sport/race bike? You might consider why.
Again, this is primarily about the company capabilities and product philosophy not the design details or product. Guzzi has made of simple lightweights among many other kinds of bikes,
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What it will do is dilute Moto Guzzi over time to the point that the ‘brand’ becomes meaningless. Like Gilera under Piaggio. Don’t know much about Gilera, which was behind the development of the now-typical transverse inline four sport/race bike? You might consider why.
In the motorcycle world how meaningful is the brand currently? I mean outside of the few hundred members on WG with about 50 of them being active Moto Guzzi is a boutique brand as it has been for millennia and will likely be until it fades into obscurity.
The brand is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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:undecided:o
In the motorcycle world how meaningful is the brand currently? I mean outside of the few hundred members on WG with about 50 of them being active Moto Guzzi is a boutique brand as it has been for millennia and will likely be until it fades into obscurity.
The brand is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
The US and WG are inconsequential to Guzzi’s market.
But yes, Piaggio had a great opportunity 20 years ago and just keeps doing worse and worse with Moto Guzzi. Just like they did with Gilera, all the way to the grave. The problem is that Piaggio never wanted Guzzi or understood it. They bought Aprilia in a passionless move to put their momentarily floundering scooter competitor out of business, and Moto Guzzi the company was a recent Aprilia acquisition that came along with the deal as an unwanted burden.
The subsequent Griso was a retake on the Centauro and was not awful, probably the best Guzzi bike Piaggio has done, and V100 engine is good - I think it’s the only positive development in recent years in terms of building a long term foundation. The V85 is OK because it’s reliable, looks good and made some sales, even with unimpressive performance. But Piaggio doesn’t really ‘get’ what Moto Guzzi can be, Vespa is about scooters and Aprilia is a competitor to the Japanese. The Trip 500 would be better off staying an Aprilia, versus taking on a Guzzi badge that it can’t credibly carry.
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What it will do is dilute Moto Guzzi over time to the point that the ‘brand’ becomes meaningless. Like Gilera under Piaggio. Don’t know much about Gilera, which was behind the development of the now-typical transverse inline four sport/race bike? You might consider why.
Again, this is primarily about the company capabilities and product philosophy not the design details or product. Guzzi has made of simple lightweights among many other kinds of bikes,
What are the Moto Guzzi "company capabilities" and "product philosophy" to which the brand should remain loyal?
If the above questions were asked of 100 Moto Guzzi riders, how many would have the same answers?
Perhaps even more importantly, how many would have the correct answers?
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What are the Moto Guzzi "company capabilities" and "product philosophy" to which the brand should remain loyal?
The best start to an answer to that question is to say Moto Guzzi was and should be a motorcycle manufacturer, not a brand like Cheetos.
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Did I miss Moto Guzzi entering the corny cheese puff market? The Trip 500 seems like a motorcycle to me ;)
Making an entry level bike, with engine or even full assembly from a cheaper country, makes sense if you want to sell a 500cc twin. Pretty much every other brand I can think of, from Europe, Japan, and the USA have already done that. My last Ducati was full of Italian charm despite being built by Ducati Motor (Thailand) Co. An alternative approach is to do what Vespa does, build the EU scoots in the EU and sell them at a premium, then build the Asian market ones in Asia and sell them affordably.
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What it will do is dilute Moto Guzzi over time to the point that the ‘brand’ becomes meaningless. Like Gilera under Piaggio. Don’t know much about Gilera, which was behind the development of the now-typical transverse inline four sport/race bike? You might consider why.
Again, this is primarily about the company capabilities and product philosophy not the design details or product. Guzzi has made of simple lightweights among many other kinds of bikes,
Couldn't disagree more.
Guzzi has evolved and changed over the years. Look at what they offered in 1959 and compare to 1969 then 79, 89, 99, 09, 19 and today. I hate AI, but it is helpful to do such a trip down memory lane asking it to list all models available. Huge variety and change that morphed into the V-twins of today. Would I prefer a sub 500cc Air Cooled V twin? Yes. But market realities and government environazi requirements likely make this a bridge too far. Air cooled motors are dead thanks to emission standards, and I give them credit for keeping them alive, but a new small displacement air cooled motor? THAT would be an exercise in futility. They COULD have possibly done a 500cc version of the V100, but would be 5-10 years
Today they are stagnant. Basically two engine platforms. The brand is stagnant, just invested a ton of $$ into the V100 platform, and the 400-500cc market is exploding. Triumph sells 5000 of its new 400cc series bikes every MONTH.............. Never Mind Royal Enfield and others. Guzzi is giving up this market.
I get it. I hate Brand labeling, but in limited use can benifit a brand. Overuse is what killed GMs greatest marques. (Oldsmobile/Pontiac)
OK, so the engine is sourced from the Aprilia Factory in India. But it still has shaft drive, steel tubular frame, Guzzi Aesthetics. This is a nice little motor too and proven reliable. If the Trip had a chain drive, I'd me more likely to agree, but it retains the shaft drive, steel trellis frame, and other Guzzi components and design. Tell you what, if that new Triumph or several of the Aprilias like the mana or the one with the clutchless transmission had a shaft drive? I'd have one in my garage. I'm hoping the Trip has the presence of the new Triumph with Guzzi DNA.
This is a win win and may be one of Guzzi's top sellers. Heck, if they sell 5000 a year nevermind a month (like Triumph) it will be a success. It will also provide a larger on ramp to the brand, bring higher profits, increase awareness, and take advantage of one of the fastest growing market segments. Should also be dead to rights reliable.
People (911 purist snobs) hated the 914, 924, 944, Boxter, Cayenne and Macan, but without them, Porsche would be DEAD.........
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Guzzi-branded Benellis is part of their history as well.
It does not seem like the final look of the Trip 500 is ready, but the only appealing one I found was this:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FcWPYnjbUnE/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Where did the "it is shaft drive" come from. I haven't seen that anywhere. Seeing as it's taking a loooong time to get it to market we can only hope for a shaft or better yet a belt. For sure it's not just a re-badge 457 or we would have it by now.
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Where did the "it is shaft drive" come from. I haven't seen that anywhere. Seeing as it's taking a loooong time to get it to market we can only hope for a shaft or better yet a belt. For sure it's not just a re-badge 457 or we would have it by now.
I forget where I saw it, but read something about it being shaft drive not chain.
Converting to shaft drive requires major redesign of the transmission output, swingarm, and overall packaging. Could be part of the delay, but who's to know with Italians......... Doing this would defeat the cost-saving purpose of sharing the Aprilia powertrain, but keep the Guzzi uniqueness, and opens new possibilities for future models.
If chain drive, the model will be DOA to me.
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People (911 purist snobs) hated the 914, 924, 944, Boxter, Cayenne and Macan, but without them, Porsche would be DEAD.........
It’s not a valid analogy. Those cars were designed by Porsche Engineering, mostly built by Porsche and were better than the 911, which was a poor design. The Trip 500 is not a better design and it was designed by Aprilia and Piaggio. It will be built at a Piaggio scooter plant in India. Guzzi engineering and product design capability no longer exists, it was dissolved 20 years ago. This is not a Guzzi product in any sense.
Re the Benelli/Guzzis of the 70s. Many people don’t know that the four stroke versions were much more Guzzi than they were Benelli. Guzzi built the engines, the forks, the wheels (about as much as they built of e.g. a Le Mans) and Guzzi did much of the design. At that time Guzzi was the center of the organization, with the most engineering and manufacturing capability. They were making ten times as many motorcycles as they are now (the peak was about 48,000 per year). The intent was for Guzzi to help Benelli.
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It’s not a valid analogy. Those cars were designed by Porsche Engineering, mostly built by Porsche and were better than the 911, which was a poor design. The Trip 500 is not a better design and it was designed by Aprilia and Piaggio. It will be built at a Piaggio scooter plant in India. Guzzi engineering and product design capability no longer exists, it was dissolved 20 years ago. This is not a Guzzi product in any sense.
Re the Benelli/Guzzis of the 70s. Many people don’t know that the four stroke versions were much more Guzzi than they were Benelli. Guzzi built the engines, the forks, the wheels (about as much as they built of e.g. a Le Mans) and Guzzi did much of the design. At that time Guzzi was the center of the organization, with the most engineering and manufacturing capability. They were making ten times as many motorcycles as they are now (the peak was about 48,000 per year). The intent was for Guzzi to help Benelli.
Totally Valid. The 914 and 924/944.1 were largely VW design and engineering, and originally planned as VW models. Porsche bought the designs and tooling. The 914 had a Type IV VW motor, and the 924 & 944.1 had an Audi Motor. As for the 911 being a poor design? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FcWPYnjbUnE/maxresdefault.jpg)
The left-side rear chain and sprocket are clearly visible in this photo just posted by Faffi.
It's an Aprilia built in India, with Guzzi branding.
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To set the record straight, Porsche did not solely engineer the Cayenne. It was co-developed with Volkswagen as a secret "Colorado Project" in Hemmingen, Germany and simultaneously lead to the VW Touareg, as well. The reality is: no manufacturer (Ferrari, Porsche, Audi-owned Ducati, no one...) develops anything on its own in a vacuum these days. Collaboration across the industry is the state of the art. Then, when you factor in the shared, under-the-skin influence of critical component suppliers...you end up where we are today.
SR
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Totally Valid. The 914 and 924/944.1 were largely VW design and engineering, and originally planned as VW models. Porsche bought the designs and tooling. The 914 had a Type IV VW motor, and the 924 & 944.1 had an Audi Motor. As for the 911 being a poor design? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
LJK Setright (a well known automotive journalist of the time) sarcastically called the 911 a “triumph of development over design”. It was the product of 1930s ideas that were vastly obsolete by the 70s, a fundamentally terrible design that sold though marketing and snobbery associated with Hollywood. It was silly that people fell for it then and now.
The 914-6 is a far better car than the 911, and shared the same engine. The 944 was a far better car than the 911 and had an entirely Porsche designed engine. Porsche developed these cars to replace the 911 and subcontracted manufacturing to reduce costs and increase volume to profitable levels - that was the credo of the time. Same with the Boxster, with Porsche flat 6 and Finnish subcontract manufacture for some of them. Porsche was and is in control.
Meanwhile Guzzi is not even a company, and there is no Moto Guzzi design engineering capability. This is not a matter of ‘collaboration’ or other BS marketing speak, it is a matter of the Trip 500 being designed and now even built by other people in other companies, another step toward a Gilera-like fate under Piaggio.
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Having known and spent some good, personal time with Setright (RIP) I can tell you that while he had great automotive insight, he had little to no business insight on what it took to keep a company alive.
Steven Rossi
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Having known and spent some good, personal time with Setright (RIP) I can tell you that while he had great automotive insight, he had little to no business insight on what it took to keep a company alive.
Steven Rossi
Which is why his comments are relevant in relation to the poor engineering design of the Porsche 911. They made it work (sort of) through pure persistence, but it was no Lotus engineering design.
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To set the record straight, Porsche did not solely engineer the Cayenne. It was co-developed with Volkswagen as a secret "Colorado Project" in Hemmingen, Germany and simultaneously lead to the VW Touareg, as well. The reality is: no manufacturer (Ferrari, Porsche, Audi-owned Ducati, no one...) develops anything on its own in a vacuum these days. Collaboration across the industry is the state of the art. Then, when you factor in the shared, under-the-skin influence of critical component suppliers...you end up where we are today.
SR
Forgot about that. I knew the original Touareg was based on the Cayenne, but didn't realize it followed the same trajectory as the 914 & 924.
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LJK Setright (a well known automotive journalist of the time) sarcastically called the 911 a “triumph of development over design”. It was the product of 1930s ideas that were vastly obsolete by the 70s, a fundamentally terrible design that sold though marketing and snobbery associated with Hollywood. It was silly that people fell for it then and now.
The 914-6 is a far better car than the 911, and shared the same engine. The 944 was a far better car than the 911 and had an entirely Porsche designed engine. Porsche developed these cars to replace the 911 and subcontracted manufacturing to reduce costs and increase volume to profitable levels - that wad the credo of the time. Porsche was in control.
Guzzi is not even a company, and there is no Moto Guzzi design engineering capability. It is not a matter of ‘collaboration’ or other BS marketing speak, it is a matter of the Trip 500 being designed and even built by other people in other companies, another step toward a Gilera-like fate under Piaggio.
The 944 was an evolution of the 924 which was a VW project and launched with an Audi engine. You're right the 944 did have a True Porsche Motor, but the base chassis was 924. I always forget that the original 944 engine was a Porsche motor, and always think that the S model with the 16 valve head was the Porsche Motor.
911 has always had haters and opinions, but it has stood the test of time and is more popular/capable than ever. I'm a midyear air cooled G Body guy, and have no interest in the water cooled models. The 928 was developed to replace the 911, but demand was strong for the 911 and so it continued on. The 928 is one of the finest road cars ever produced (IMO) and was light years ahead of its time. The 944 is also a fabulous car, and my 89 S2 drives runs and functions as well as any modern sports car. Nothing however touches the feel and function of my 76 912E which was basically a 911 with one of the last 2000 Type 4 motors left over from the 914. Spin it how you want, but the 914 & 924 were primarily VW projects developed with Porsche and picked up by Porsche when VW walked away. Evidently a similar situation with the Cayenne,
Point is, this is how manufacturers operate. Always have and will, and people will love or hate for various reasons. No comment on your claim Guzzi is not a company, not worth the rabbit hole, but I still think this is a good move by Guzzi/Piaggio. YMMV
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When I drove a 912 the first time in the early 80s, my reaction was that an MG Midget was a better car. It seemed to me completely pointless, a slow 911 with the same poor handling, rubbery control feel etc.
Then in about 2000 I drove an ‘83 911, trying to convince myself that they weren’t as I remembered. I remember my feeling, the Alfa Milano Verde that I drove there was twice as good as a sports car, and had four doors and a large trunk.
Then in around 2003 I tried again, a friend had a ‘97 air-cooled 911 for sale and wanted me to try it. Same reaction… is this it? Really?
The Porsche 944 was meanwhile a nice car, good handling, solidly built and the Porsche engine was good. They messed up allowing VW so much input into the 924 but then saved it. And Porsche remained in control of any product that had their name on it.
Nowadays, in a completely different scenario, Guzzi has not been a company for about 20 years, any more than Pontiac or Oldsmobile were companies under GM. The company was long ago dissolved. The bikes are currently assembled in Mandello, overall chassis and styling design is largely by Aprilia and powertrain design is largely by Piaggio in Pontedera. Moving assembly increasingly to a low cost Piaggio plant in India is the next logical progression, and beyond that lies the ‘Alfa Romeo’ option in which the plant in northern Italy becomes only a museum. Unlike Alfa under Fiat I suspect Piaggio would keep just a trickle of production in Mandello, enough for plausible deniability that there’s absolutely nothing of Moto Guzzi left. It’s in a pretty location unlike where the Gilera plant was, and the town of Mandello has got the owners of the plant by the short and curlies via zoning laws. As I understand it, they can’t repurpose the land for any other use.
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Where did the "it is shaft drive" come from. I haven't seen that anywhere. Seeing as it's taking a loooong time to get it to market we can only hope for a shaft or better yet a belt. For sure it's not just a re-badge 457 or we would have it by now.
The "spy" photos show a chain drive. Swapping that out for a belt for production, still possible but unlikely, shaft drive - extremely unlikely.
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-the-trip-500-parallel-twin-spy-shots/
Again, regarding the other photos in this thread, they're AI generated. EIMCA 2026 isn't until November.
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Again, regarding the other photos in this thread, they're AI generated. EIMCA 2026 isn't until November.
I know, but the one I posted looked quite nice. Perhaps because it looks a bit like a Honda? :boozing:
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When I drove a 912 the first time in the early 80s, my reaction was that an MG Midget was a better car. It seemed to me completely pointless, a slow 911 with the same poor handling, rubbery control feel etc.
Then in about 2000 I drove an ‘83 911, trying to convince myself that they weren’t as I remembered. I remember my feeling, the Alfa Milano Verde that I drove there was twice as good as a sports car, and had four doors and a large trunk.
Then in around 2003 I tried again, a friend had a ‘97 air-cooled 911 for sale and wanted me to try it. Same reaction… is this it? Really?
The Porsche 944 was meanwhile a nice car, good handling, solidly built and the Porsche engine was good. They messed up allowing VW so much input into the 924 but then saved it. And Porsche remained in control of any product that had their name on it.
Nowadays, in a completely different scenario, Guzzi has not been a company for about 20 years, any more than Pontiac or Oldsmobile were companies under GM. The company was long ago dissolved. The bikes are currently assembled in Mandello, overall chassis and styling design is largely by Aprilia and powertrain design is largely by Piaggio in Pontedera. Moving assembly increasingly to a low cost Piaggio plant in India is the next logical progression, and beyond that lies the ‘Alfa Romeo’ option in which the plant in northern Italy becomes only a museum. Unlike Alfa under Fiat I suspect Piaggio would keep just a trickle of production in Mandello, enough for plausible deniability that there’s absolutely nothing of Moto Guzzi left. It’s in a pretty location unlike where the Gilera plant was, and the town of Mandello has got the owners of the plant by the short and curlies via zoning laws. As I understand it, they can’t repurpose the land for any other use.
The beauty of having options and the ability and freedom to drive/ride what you love. Air Cooled Porsches are just like Guzzi, some get it, some (most) dont with Guzzi, and most get it for the 911, hence it's success and popularity. My BIL is a Porsche nut and HATES the air cooled cars (he also irons his blue jeans). He loves the 997 & forward. I'm happy to let him hate. I'm very pleased with my Super Super Beetle and will drive it till they take my papers away. Is truly the only car I've owned that I can effortlessly drive in the twisties as fast as I can on a motorcycle, and delivers what (for me) is the most rewarding driving experience I've ever had. But I get it, it's not for everyone, just as Guzzi isn't. I've no interest in the newer WC cars, though the new 992.2 (2025) has a T(?) model with manual and minimal creature comforts that is a fantastic drivers car. Drove one at Summit Race Track last month at a PCS club meet, and was very impressed. Not impressed enough to throw down 3-4 years of my retirement pay.
So, how's your Yugo treating you? Or is a Kia these days? :evil: :evil: :evil:
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The "spy" photos show a chain drive. Swapping that out for a belt for production, still possible but unlikely, shaft drive - extremely unlikely.
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-the-trip-500-parallel-twin-spy-shots/
Again, regarding the other photos in this thread, they're AI generated. EIMCA 2026 isn't until November.
I had GROK do a search on the topic and most indicators are that the whole powertrain is carried over from Aprilia, but as you say, we won't KNOW until we see the actual production model.
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Meanwhile Guzzi is not even a company, and there is no Moto Guzzi design engineering capability. This is not a matter of ‘collaboration’ or other BS marketing speak, it is a matter of the Trip 500 being designed and now even built by other people in other companies, another step toward a Gilera-like fate under Piaggio.
While sad that Moto Guzzi is no longer a company (just a subsidiary of a conglomerate), perhaps due to the defenders of "the old ways" inside "Moto Guzzi" retiring or dying off. Or perhaps, the old designs simply are not economically or technically feasible in the highly competitive, highly regulated markets of today. The bean counters and market analysists have tremendous power. Especially in today's information driven society.
Therefore, Moto Guzzi, however it is defined, has no need of "company capabilities" nor "product philosophy."
In Italian: "If all y'all want your pensions funded and want to continue making your mortgage payments, shut up about the good ole days, and build the bikes people will buy!!!"
Moto Guzzi, like BMW and Harley used mechanical attributes to define themselves and market their products. Once those mechanical attributes are succeeded by other designs (or at least, perceived to be succeeded in the minds of the buyers), the sales decline.
Once Harley went away from cast iron engines, the rallying cry of "Real Steel!" ceased to exist.
The engineers and the marketers are not to blame, blame the buyers.
As someone once said "The past was always a better country." Each passing year, I understand that statement a bit better, and agree with it a bit more.
I'd like to see Moto Guzzi do something unique that is easily feasible, like a 120-150 degree V-Twin engine. It would be the most unique sounding and looking bike on the road.
It would be a new business card that says "____ ____!! We are Moto Guzzi! We do it our way!"
Edit to appease NCDan (even though I know the actual Italian words.....)
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While sad that Moto Guzzi is no longer a company (just a subsidiary of a conglomerate), perhaps due to the defenders of "the old ways" inside "Moto Guzzi" retiring or dying off.
I'll try to be accurate, can't guarantee the following 100%, but regardless my understanding of what actually happened was that when Piaggio took over they closed Guzzi's independent management and marketing functions, parts department and most engineering functions. Those people were obviously no longer employed. All you had to do was go to the Mandello dealer (Agostini) to get the whole story. They were in shock or so it seemed to me, having had decades of close relationship with the manufacturer and the Agostini family subsequently sold the dealership in 2009. Wittner had previously left in around 2000 when Aprilia took over but otherwise Aprilia had a lighter touch, with for example the beautiful MGS-01 being developed in Mandello under their ownership by Todero and Giuseppe Ghezzi, with the latter hired full time by Guzzi in 2003. After the 2004 Piaggio takeover, Todero very soon passed on. Ghezzi continued as the lone ranger under Piaggio for a while but eventually (as I understand it from somebody who then worked at Piaggio) he was eventually pushed out.
Ghezzi would have been the logical guy to continue an in-house Moto Guzzi design engineering group had Piaggio not shut them down, and judging by the comparison of Guzzi's MGS-01 and Piaggio's designs, Guzzi's work would have been very interesting to many. Note in the resume linked below that Guzzi designed and built the "technical concept of non-conventional chassis, parallelogram suspension, with innovative frame technology" between 2003-2005. I would love to see photos.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/giuseppe-ghezzi-4b5b6289/details/experience/?locale=en-US
Piaggio instead built a bike with Telelever Emulators (as some called them), a styling affectation intended to make the R1150R-replica Breva appear to have a similar front suspension. Pathetic :cry: :wink:
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Tusayan.
That is a sad but fascinating story, that seems to be repeated many times.
I've heard lots of good things about how Beta treats their dealers and customers. Too bad Beta could not absorb Moto Guzzi and implement a "hands off" form of management.
I have no idea as to the relative size of Beta and Moto Guzzi.
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It’s an interesting thought… Beta makes about 20,000 bikes a year, does all their own engine development and hasn’t lost their soul to Piaggio or VW, nor become a label for Chinese bikes like almost every other Italian motorcycle manufacturer. It’d be interesting to know how they did it.
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Ah, just so you know:
"Beta uses Chinese manufacturing for some smaller engines, such as the 125cc four-stroke found in certain entry-level enduro models. Dual-sport bikes: The engines for the Alp 4.0 and Alp X dual-sport motorcycles are designed in Italy and manufactured in China by the partner company Tayo (Zontes) before final assembly."
SR
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Personally, I fail to see why Guzzi identity got lost under Piaggio, or whatever. The V7 has been a success - relatively speaking - since we first saw it in 2008(?) and continue so today. The V9 engine was an improvement without any negatives that I am aware of, and has probably been the base for the majority of models over the past decade. In 2004, Guzzi sold less than 4000 bikes, 2006 seems to be the best production year with 10200 units, since then numbers seems to sit somewhere in the 6-8k annual machines made. Interestingly, 2006 saw mostly big twins, while they seem to be mostly gone today.
Anyway, whoever produce goods will want a profit. Those who cling on to history and tradition without complying to market demands tend to diminish or vanish. But even then, you can get it wrong and be forced to go back to your roots, like Harley now bringing back air cooled engines with old instead of bold styling. I wonder if the V100 has been a financial success for Guzzi? It does not seem to sell in the same numbers as the V7 and V85 ranges based on the small block.
If Piaggio can market a new 500 as a Guzzi and get good revenue out of it, more power to them. Even if some will hate it for not being traditional or a true Guzzi. I am pretty sure there were haters when Guzzi introduced the (in comparison) heavy and complex V700 back in the 60s also, but its overall idea remains to this day. And Guzzi have made bikes with parallell twins before, with liquid coolind and with chain final drive, so the new "fake" Guzzi 500 will not be revolutionary for the brand in any respect. And if it really succeeds, it could fund new traditional Guzzi V-twin models with air cooling.
Sorry for the ramblings that probably did not make a lot of sense.
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Personally, I fail to see why Guzzi identity got lost under Piaggio, or whatever. The V7 has been a success - relatively speaking - since we first saw it in 2008(?) and continue so today. The V9 engine was an improvement without any negatives that I am aware of, and has probably been the base for the majority of models over the past decade. In 2004, Guzzi sold less than 4000 bikes, 2006 seems to be the best production year with 10200 units, since then numbers seems to sit somewhere in the 6-8k annual machines made. Interestingly, 2006 saw mostly big twins, while they seem to be mostly gone today.
Anyway, whoever produce goods will want a profit. Those who cling on to history and tradition without complying to market demands tend to diminish or vanish. But even then, you can get it wrong and be forced to go back to your roots, like Harley now bringing back air cooled engines with old instead of bold styling. I wonder if the V100 has been a financial success for Guzzi? It does not seem to sell in the same numbers as the V7 and V85 ranges based on the small block.
If Piaggio can market a new 500 as a Guzzi and get good revenue out of it, more power to them. Even if some will hate it for not being traditional or a true Guzzi. I am pretty sure there were haters when Guzzi introduced the (in comparison) heavy and complex V700 back in the 60s also, but its overall idea remains to this day. And Guzzi have made bikes with parallell twins before, with liquid coolind and with chain final drive, so the new "fake" Guzzi 500 will not be revolutionary for the brand in any respect. And if it really succeeds, it could fund new traditional Guzzi V-twin models with air cooling.
Sorry for the ramblings that probably did not make a lot of sense.
Great points.
Fact is Left to their devices, the self-appointed"purists" and "experts" would destroy any great brand.
Guzzi is already 2 to 3 years late to the party behind Royal Enfield and Triumph. Dealer accessibility alone will limit the number of sales, but when triumph is pumping out 5,000 of these things a month, it has to make you pause and think what is being left on the table if not pursued. And of course it has to be pursued in a way that is fiscally feasible, hence lifting the engine and drivetrain from an existing Aprilia.
Is marketing reality. I just hope that the matte color schemes are left out of the equation, and whoever is doing the paint design actually has some talent. It's just my opinion, but the color schemes in combinations are mostly amiss the last 10 years with very few exceptions.
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I just hope that the matte color schemes are left out of the equation, and whoever is doing the paint design actually has some talent. It's just my opinion, but the color schemes in combinations are mostly amiss the last 10 years with very few exceptions.
The color combinations you describe are from Aprilia, and started in 2002 on the (previously quite attactive) V11 Sport, before Piaggio was on the scene, with a prior cameo appearance on the 2001 Rosso Mandello. They are scooter inspired.
“Marketing Reality” is nonsense. Smart and creative people create a product and company that succeeds long term. Less inspired people rely on marketing and sales techniques to move products for another year, then try again without getting anywhere. The Aprilia paint schemes are a great example of this, as is recycling old Moto Guzzi designs like the V7 Sport in cheapened form because they couldn’t come up with anything original. The V85TT was not this, and worked better. It’s just not a very high performing bike, but it’s a reasonable product that has sold OK-ish for six years.
Enfield BTW makes 2500 bikes a day, mostly traditional singles updated over decades. Triumph is nothing by comparison. The best ‘recent’ year for Guzzi was 1971, and they made 47,000 bikes. They’ve been stuck at roughly 6,000 for ten years, under Piaggio.
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... complex V700...
:laugh: :laugh: Complex? A V700 is about as simple of a motorcycle as anyone can build!
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Just to clarify, the semantics are being confused here. Product Planning is normally under the Marketing umbrella. Which is how the new Ford Maverick was created off of the Bronco Sport. There was certainly a lot of sense in that...
SR
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:laugh: :laugh: Complex? A V700 is about as simple of a motorcycle as anyone can build!
Two many pistons, cylinders, connecting rods, and valves..... :azn: :azn:
and what was wrong with leather drive belts? :wink:
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sounds to me like a 120 degree, transverse, air cooled, 4 valve per cylinder, V-Twin engine would do a lot to rejuvenate the tired old bird.....
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The color combinations you describe are from Aprilia, and started in 2002 on the (previously quite attactive) V11 Sport, before Piaggio was on the scene, with a prior cameo appearance on the 2001 Rosso Mandello. They are scooter inspired.
“Marketing Reality” is nonsense. Smart and creative people create a product and company that succeeds long term. Less inspired people rely on marketing and sales techniques to move products for another year, then try again without getting anywhere. The Aprilia paint schemes are a great example of this, as is recycling old Moto Guzzi designs like the V7 Sport in cheapened form because they couldn’t come up with anything original. The V85TT was not this, and worked better. It’s just not a very high performing bike, but it’s a reasonable product that has sold OK-ish for six years.
Enfield BTW makes 2500 bikes a day, mostly traditional singles updated over decades. Triumph is nothing by comparison. The best ‘recent’ year for Guzzi was 1971, and they made 47,000 bikes. They’ve been stuck at roughly 6,000 for ten years, under Piaggio.
You prove/make my point. Guzzi once was more than a single dimension Motorcycle Producer. They have ceded territory to the brands making smaller displacement motorcycles. It is good they are making a first attempt to enter this market and expand their market appeal and offerings. I'd like to see them go smaller with singles. And what does it matter to people like you? Guzzi is just a brand name and soul less. SO let them be soul less and have a broader appeal. Cynicism has no practical purpose.
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I’d love to see Moto Guzzi build an innovative lightweight bike in Mandello, a bike that reflects Guzzi’s history of innovation in lightweights and has some product differentiation. When they do that, and succeed, the name continues to have meaning.
The Galleto originated the same rear suspension design that was used on the Ducati 916. Guzzi won the 350 GP championship five times. That ought to provide some inspiration.
I suspect the Trip 500 will penetrate the lightweight market as well as Harley’s Street 500, and for the same reasons. The Harley was actually a little more inspired and was assembled in the US as well being manufactured in India. Even the name is similar.
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Too bad there is no Sportbike or Sport Tourer Tuono based V4.
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Too bad there is no Sportbike or Sport Tourer Tuono based V4.
not sure if serious or not...
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Any news on this or still waiting for the EICMA?
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I read that Triumph sold 50,000 of the 400 bikes last year.
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With the announcement of the new Triumph T40, I suspect those sales may be about to get quite a bump.
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With the announcement of the new Triumph T40, I suspect those sales may be about to get quite a bump.
What happened to the BSA 650? Triumph could be marketing that bike.
Or build a simpler, less expensive, lighter version by buying XR650L engines from Honda or DR650 engines from Suzuki.
I suspect that would be considered a "new bike" that, regardless of the engine, could not be accepted for emissions under a grandfather clause.
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Other than being classic Brit bike names made in India, I don't think there's any actual relation between the modern BSA and Triumph motorcycles made in India. Different companies, different products.
Big brands like Honda and Suzuki tend to not sell their engines to other companies (ones they don't have at least partial ownership of) to put in their bikes, and that's why there are economy bikes on the market with engines that are derived from old Honda designs, but made by other companies in China. Janus, quite a few CSC models, Hawk 250, Lifans, TNT 135, etc have Honda-derived engines. SSR XF250 is one example from a Suzuki design. I think Rotax may be one of the only big names with recent history of selling crate engines to competitors, other than the Chinese companies, and S&S Cycle (who don't make a bike of their own).
As for emissions, many countries, including India, are very strict on new vehicle emissions to the point that those simple carb'd engines would likely not pass emissions without reworking, which is why those bikes are getting dropped in other regions, instead of investing in reworking them, yet they can continue to be sold in the USA (or even *somewhat* recently introduced here, like the Honda Navi and XR150L) where EPA requirements for motorcycles are fairly lax in terms of tailpipe emissions, but tested differently and sometimes strict for noise pollution.
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What happened to the BSA 650? Triumph could be marketing that bike.
The BSA 650 is in US dealers now. Why would Triumph market a competitor's motorcycle?
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With the announcement of the new Triumph T40, I suspect those sales may be about to get quite a bump.
Well spotted , the new Bonny !
This could be the game changer, wish I’d thought of it
400 single sells well, so we’re told , but think big.
Lose 25% of hp, GAIN 20 kg
Market it as pretty
I kid you not — read about it here
https://www.mcnews.com.au/2027-triumph-bonneville-t40-t40-black/
Guzzi have time to do the same to Ape’s lovely little twin
Give it the heavy treatment, valanced guards etc etc
Massive flywheel, dinky valves & TB’s
Brave new world, may the slowest and heaviest win
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The BSA 650 is in US dealers now. Why would Triumph market a competitor's motorcycle?
I'm behind the times. Last I heard the BSA 650 did not make it to the US. It will be interesting to see if it sells.
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Well spotted , the new Bonny !
This could be the game changer, wish I’d thought of it
400 single sells well, so we’re told , but think big.
Lose 25% of hp, GAIN 20 kg
Market it as pretty
I kid you not — read about it here
https://www.mcnews.com.au/2027-triumph-bonneville-t40-t40-black/
Guzzi have time to do the same to Ape’s lovely little twin
Give it the heavy treatment, valanced guards etc etc
Massive flywheel, dinky valves & TB’s
Brave new world, may the slowest and heaviest win
30 horsepower pushing 420 pounds!!! It looks great, but back to back riding with the other Triumph 400 models might convince buyers to pass on the T40. Hopefully, the "garage factor" will push sales.
Are you talking about the Aprilia RXV/SXV V-twins? Phenomenal bikes once sorted out. A basket of problems as delivered from the factory. A few really stupid early design decisions killed that bike's potential. That could have been the Italian engine that wowed everyone.
If you ever get a chance to ride a sorted out RXV or SXV, do it! It will be an experience.
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As for emissions, many countries, including India, are very strict on new vehicle emissions to the point that those simple carb'd engines would likely not pass emissions without reworking, which is why those bikes are getting dropped in other regions, instead of investing in reworking them, yet they can continue to be sold in the USA (or even *somewhat* recently introduced here, like the Honda Navi and XR150L) where EPA requirements for motorcycles are fairly lax in terms of tailpipe emissions, but tested differently and sometimes strict for noise pollution.
I think you are correct. AFAIK, the only air cooled bikes currently for sale are fuel injected. Air cooling and carbs don't seem to meet the emissions standards in many places.
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https://www.advrider.com/harleys-business-model-was-made-for-a-world-that-no-longer-exists/
Read down a bit and see some eye opening small bike sales numbers worldwide.
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Are you talking about the Aprilia RXV/SXV V-twins?
I think he was referring to the current 457 parallel twin.