Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: leafman60 on July 29, 2012, 10:28:51 PM
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This also applies to other Moto Guzzi models with this 8-valve engine, both flat tappet and roller tappet versions.
Begin procedure with engine cold, at room temperature.
Start by blowing all loose dirt or grime away before loosening any fasteners or parts. This helps avoid debris finding its way into the internals.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0439.jpg)
Next, pry out the little “Moto Guzzi” emblems. This may take more effort than you’d think if you had good dealer prep. My dealer mechanic had added some glue to the underside of the emblems to avoid the common problem of lost emblems. I used a thin-blade utility knife as a prying tool and worked the emblem out. You have to get it up and then pull it loose from the glue. I know that I’m kinda anal sometimes but I applied blue tape so as not to mar the plug wire retainer when I pried out the emblem.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0442.jpg)
This is what the little emblem looks like from behind. The blob of glue is in the background. Once the embem is out, you remove the retaining screw and the small spark plug wire cover piece.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0441-1.jpg)
Next is removal of the spark plug boot from the plug. Much has been written about this and several people have mutilated a plug wire/boot trying to remove it from the plug. The shop manual says to insert a screwdriver through the rear fin opening and pry the boot up. This is easier said than done. The throttle body and the injector kinda get in the way.
I discovered that I could grab the boot and rotate it left and right several times to break loose its seal to the valve cover. Then, by twisting it a bit further the shoulder of the boot rides up on the valve cover with the effect of pulling the boot off the plug. Help it with your fingers and it comes right off. You can also slip a nylon zip-tie or a piece of strong twine etc around the boot head and pull it off. These plug wires are sensitive to damage so be careful. Official procedure to remove caps is to insert screwdriver through head fins to pry up the boots from the bottom. Be careful not to cut the boots with this method. (See posting about upgrading spark plug boots to NGK.)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0443.jpg)
Then take a long socket extension and a thin wall socket to reach the spark plug. This is the same size socket as used to remove the plugs on the current BMW boxers. I use a Duralast 16mm deep that I bought from Autozone Parts. If the wall of the socket is too thick, the socket will not go down into the valve cover.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0444.jpg)
My socket did not have a rubber retainer inside so, once the plug was loose, I removed it from the well with a telescopic magnet.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0445.jpg)
Next, remove the valve cover retaining bolts. Rubber washers are under them.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0446.jpg)
Then, remove the plastic heat guard that covers the rear of the valve cover and lift away the valve cover.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0447.jpg)
Just look at those easy-to-adjust rocker arms. Ducati people, eat your hearts out.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0448.jpg)
The valve cover gaskets are rubber and re-useable after wiping clean.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0449.jpg)
Now, we have to get the piston to top-dead-center on the compression stoke so that all valves will be closed and the rocker arms off the heel of the cam with the valve lash present. You can manually turn the rear wheel with the transmission in gear or you can put a 24 mm socket on the front crank nut.
First, pry off the rubber plug on the front of the engine to reveal the nut. Then use the socket and ratchet to turn the engine.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0450.jpg)
There are marks on the flywheel, as with most Guzzi models, to indicate when each piston is at TDC but they are not as obvious as on the older engines. You may want to paint a white mark on the flywheel once you have the proper TDC position. First, remove the rubber plug on the rider’s right side behind the motor.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0453.jpg)
Another way to find TDC, upon which I relied, is to insert something soft like a soda straw into the spark plug hole to rest on top of the piston and move with the piston. You just turn the engine with the wrench and watch the soda straw until it shows the piston reaching the top of its stroke.
On the anal side, I like to come to rest at TDC as the crank would normally turn and not “back it up” to rest at my adjustment point. The theory here is to have the cam chain taut and not let any cam chain slack interfere with your adjustment points. The engine crank turns in a clockwise direction if you are standing in front of the bike and looking back at the front of the motor. Looking in the flywheel peephole, the normal direction of rotation would show the flywheel moving upward.
Remember that you want the piston at TDC on the compression stroke. You can watch the valves to figure this out. When the piston comes to the top and all four valves are closed, that’s what you want. You can verify this by grabbing the rockers and shaking them. You’ll feel them a little loose. You can also double-check by looking for the flywheel mark.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0454.jpg)
Before using the feeler gauges to check the lash, I like to squirt a little cleaner solvent (brake cleaner etc) on the lash joint to clean-out any oil that may interfere with a good gauge feel. After completing the valve adjust, squirt a little oil back into the valve lash gap. Intake is .006 inch, .15 mm. Exhaust is .008 inch, .20mm.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0455.jpg)
The intake valves are on the rear, near the intake. Exhaust valves are on the front where the exhaust pipe is.
This is a procedure held over from my many years of BMW valve adjusting. BMW recommends checking clearances with two feeler gauges at once. The theory is that slop in the rocker shaft can alter your readings so you want to insert a feeler gauge on both valve trains to take out such free play. I don’t know if it’s worth the trouble but I am used to doing it.
You still check and adjust each valve separately but you do so with a feeler gauge on the other valve while you’re doing it. You can also try to bridge one feeler gauge blade across both valves.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0457.jpg)
Now, we do the exhaust. So simple. Loosen the lock nut, adjust the allen stud. You do have to play with it. When you tighten the lock nut, your clearance may change a wee bit due to pulling the slack out of the threads. You’ll have to back it off and work it until you get what you want after tightening down the lock nut. Play with it and you’ll get it correct. You want a slight drag on the feeler gauge. If you are in doubt, take the next size up feeler gauge and see if it will go in your gap. If it does, you had them too loose. Of course, remember- too loose, is better than too tight.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0458.jpg)
Another look at the exhaust side after we have adjusted both valves to proper spec.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0459.jpg)
After one cylinder is completed, you move to the other side and repeat the procedure outlined above. Get the piston to TDC and be sure all valves are closed and you can feel slack in the rockers that you’ll be adjusting.
In keeping with being very detailed, I like to squirt a little oil back into the adjusted joints after the lash adjustment is completed.
Wipe the valve cover gaskets clean and replace them on the cylinder head.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0460.jpg)
Before replacing the spark plugs, examine them. Clean or replace if necessary. Guzzi uses the twin point plugs like BMW. I like to dab a wee bit of anti-seize compound on the threads.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0461.jpg)
Insert the plug into the well with your plug socket or, as shown here, the extension magnet. Torque plug to specs.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0463.jpg)
I like to lube up the interior and exterior of the plug boot with some dielectric grease to ease that boot removal procedure we discussed at the beginning.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0464.jpg)
Position the valve cover on the head.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0467.jpg)
After replacing the plastic heat guard, rubber washers, valve cover screws, and the spark plug wire cover, add a dab of silicone or some sort of glue to hold down that little MG emblem and re-insert the emblem.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Valve%20Adjust/IMG_0466.jpg)
That’s all there is to it.
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Nice write up, I'm the one who put Super Black on your emblems not the factory.
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Lol, you sonofagun !
If I didn't live so far from you, you'd be doing this, ya know !
By the way, everything was consistent and about 1 thou on the loose side for all 8 valves.
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I understand the gap clearances are 6 and 8 for the 2012 NTX instead of 4 and 6 as the manual download from Guzzitech says? I'm getting prepared to do my first valve adjust for the new Stelvio NTX I bought last week.
Thanks for posting this excellent step by step procedure, and the pictures are very good.
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Now the big question is it still a flat tappet valve train as oppose to some it Europe who insist the new Stelvio's have a roller tappet valve train.
Excellent work there David !
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Now the big question is it still a flat tappet valve train as oppose to some it Europe who insist the new Stelvio's have a roller tappet valve train.
Excellent work there David !
I've only heard one anecdotal story of some Stelvios having the roller tappets.
If you look at Davida pics and then compare the cam boxes with those on my 8V posted up on Guzzirech you can clearly see the differences, including what for all the world look like guide marks for boring bigger holes for the roller tappet assemblies cast into the top of the camboxes.
Does this mean anything? Who knows? My guess is that the new Cali 1400 will be launched with considerable fanfare and much will be made of the roller tappets and twin plugs. Before anyone starts 'Woe is me-ing' though I think it has now been adequately proven that if you do the right thing by the flat tappet motors they are every bit as reliable as their predecessors.
I remain convinced that the motors that failed AFTER the initial batch of questionable tappets have done so through ignorance and neglect rather than there being any question of 'Fragility'. Do bear in mind though that my sample group is fairly small. Having said that 'Flat Tappet' Grisos and Stelvios from 'Reputable' dealers in most markets seem to work fine. Ones sold by 'Push 'em out the door with a 'Concrete Warranty' mobs seem to fare less well....
VDG
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I understand the gap clearances are 6 and 8 for the 2012 NTX instead of 4 and 6 as the manual download from Guzzitech says? I'm getting prepared to do my first valve adjust for the new Stelvio NTX I bought last week.
Thanks for posting this excellent step by step procedure, and the pictures are very good.
Thanks all.
Yes, my current shop manual and all recent data call for the 6 and 8 settings on the Stelvio. This was the first adjustment on this bike with about 950 miles on it.
All eight valves were about exactly the same but rather than .006 inch and .008 inch, they were approximately .007 inch intake and .009 inch exhaust. Maybe that was on-purposed to allow initial break-in settling. I adjusted everything to spec. The bike runs like a scalded dog.
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Nice photography! Clean and crisp close ups! What camera did you use?
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Cheap Canon pocket camera!
Those sharp pictures also show all the dirt on my bike!
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Leaf, I knew you would take care of it, service. Hope it is acting ok for you.
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Leafman, excellent write up and pics, as others have said. Thanks for sharing! ;-T
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Awesome write up and nice photos ;-T. I would love to see more of this take place on other tasks as well.
I did learn something from it too...I would have adjusted my valves to the same tolerances as the '09, but now I know better.
Good job.
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Awesome write up and nice photos ;-T. I would love to see more of this take place on other tasks as well.
I did learn something from it too...I would have adjusted my valves to the same tolerances as the '09, but now I know better.
Good job.
I would verify that for your 09 Luap, The rockers and cam box has been redesigned for the 2013 model 8V
Paging GuzziSteve or Mr. Vasco
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I would verify that for your 09 Luap, The rockers and cam box has been redesigned for the 2013 model 8V
Paging GuzziSteve or Mr. Vasco
I dont have the 09 anymore ;D, I traded it for the 12. that's what's good to know is that I wont set them on the 12 as I did on the 09. Glad you pointed it out before I did it. Guess it helps to read the manual ;D
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Thanks for the excellent tutorial Leafman! Well done.
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Thanks for the writeup! We need more of this on WG! ;-T
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Thanks for the show and tell. I'm bookmarking this one.
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Below and forward of the dipstick is an engine number that starts with either A5, or A8.
A5's are set at .10 intake. .15 exhaust
A8's are set at .10 intake. .20 exhaust
My 2010 is an A8
This is per the Stelvio service manual so I sure hope it is correct.
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I just wanted to say thanks to Leafman60 for this procedure.
I couldn't find a good procedure with my search in the shop manual and this really helped yesterday.
The straw method for find TDC worked awesome.
All the valves were tight on my Stelvio on this 6250 mile service.
Also went iridium spark plugs and swapped out the spark plug boots per another article by Leafman60.
Anyways, today I am thankful for the time that you put this together.
thanks again, Andrew.
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I just wanted to say thanks to Leafman60 for this procedure.
I couldn't find a good procedure with my search in the shop manual and this really helped yesterday.
The straw method for find TDC worked awesome.
All the valves were tight on my Stelvio on this 6250 mile service.
Also went iridium spark plugs and swapped out the spark plug boots per another article by Leafman60.
Anyways, today I am thankful for the time that you put this together.
thanks again, Andrew.
You are very welcome, Andrew. Just like many others on here, all I try to do is help others with my own experiences.
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Thanks Leafman for sharing this. I wish I had witnessed this before I buggered up my factory plug boot. I was very gentle with it but still managed to split the insulation at the top bend. Live and learn. I purchased replacement ngk's but they do not seem to have the same seals as the originals. I am inclined to order factory replacements as they look to have a better seal design . Certainly with all the concerns recently with tappet failures we all will be keeping a close eye on valve lash clearances. Your step by step tutorial will be appreciated by many. Dave
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Thanks Leafman for sharing this. I wish I had witnessed this before I buggered up my factory plug boot. I was very gentle with it but still managed to split the insulation at the top bend. Live and learn. I purchased replacement ngk's but they do not seem to have the same seals as the originals. I am inclined to order factory replacements as they look to have a better seal design . Certainly with all the concerns recently with tappet failures we all will be keeping a close eye on valve lash clearances. Your step by step tutorial will be appreciated by many. Dave
Lucian, if you look at my postings about the NGK plug caps, I describe how the proper NGK seals come on another NGK cap besides the one appropriate for the Stelvio. Just buy a couple of those other NGK caps with the correct size seals, remove the seals and install them on the NGK caps that fit the Stelvio. They make a tight seal to the spark plug insulator.
I included pictures of all that.
Look here-
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=61267.40
.
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Hey, I can use this. My first do it yourself valve adjustment is coming up. ;-T
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Waiting to see the pics on that one. :pop
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David,
I wish I had seen your fancy 2 gauge setup before before I spent the big bucks on a pair of the BMW setup
http://www.beemerboneyard.com/wurthairhead.html (http://www.beemerboneyard.com/wurthairhead.html)
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15102260216258_2272_1495400284)
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David,
I wish I had seen your fancy 2 gauge setup before before I spent the big bucks on a pair of the BMW setup
http://www.beemerboneyard.com/wurthairhead.html (http://www.beemerboneyard.com/wurthairhead.html)
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15102260216258_2272_1495400284)
Those are Wurth brand feeler gauges and are well known, especially in the BMW world.
To make a double gauge like I use, just rivet two individual gauges together. You don't have to connect the two feelers but I find it helpful.
Not everybody uses that set-up but it is stressed in the BMW service manuals as the best way to get the clearances more perfect on two-valve rockers like the BMW and the 8V Guzzi. The theory is that any slack in the rocker arm can alter the final clearances on individual valves when adjusted with a single feeler. Using twin feelers helps hold the rocker steady while you set the clearances on both valves.
I really don't know if it's the best way but I've done it that way for years of working on BMW 8V motors.
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I've only heard one anecdotal story of some Stelvios having the roller tappets.
IBefore anyone starts 'Woe is me-ing' though I think it has now been adequately proven that if you do the right thing by the flat tappet motors they are every bit as reliable as their predecessors.
I remain convinced that the motors that failed AFTER the initial batch of questionable tappets have done so through ignorance and neglect rather than there being any question of 'Fragility'. Do bear in mind though that my sample group is fairly small. Having said that 'Flat Tappet' Grisos and Stelvios from 'Reputable' dealers in most markets seem to work fine. Ones sold by 'Push 'em out the door with a 'Concrete Warranty' mobs seem to fare less well....
VDG
However, since then it's all changed a bit
I just wanted to say thanks to Leafman60 for this procedure.
All the valves were tight on my Stelvio on this 6250 mile service.
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Any comment on tight valves, Pete ?
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David,
I wish I had seen your fancy 2 gauge setup before before I spent the big bucks on a pair of the BMW setup
http://www.beemerboneyard.com/wurthairhead.html (http://www.beemerboneyard.com/wurthairhead.html)
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15102260216258_2272_1495400284)
You can get a few feet of shim strips in about any thickness for a few pennies from McMaster Carr.
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No why would I? I have no knowledge of this particular bike or its servicing.
As for the first quote? It is over two and a half years old and like all observations is subject to revision and re-examination in the light of further events. Problem?
Pete
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You can get a few feet of shim strips in about any thickness for a few pennies from McMaster Carr.
Or you can go down to your local auto parts store and buy a relatively inexpensive, high-quality set of feelers that are already die-cut for ease of use.
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As for the first quote? It is over two and a half years old and like all observations is subject to revision and re-examination in the light of further events. Problem?
Pete
Pete, those of us that do failure analysis for a living (I run the Quality Department for a material handling manufacturer and have certifications hanging on the wall showing I have passed testing to show proficiency in such) understand fully what you are doing and why in trying to figure out what is the root cause of the failures. We appreciate your efforts and time you spend detailing your findings. I'm following your posts even though I have no flat tappet big block, if for nothing else the opportunity to learn and be entertained. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
Darren
"Only a fool closes his mind after only a few facts"
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Nice article. Two brief comments:
1. You write: "There are marks on the flywheel, as with all Guzzi models, to indicate when each piston is at TDC but they are not as obvious as on the older engines." Not true for the newer V7 models. None on my '13 V7 Stone, for example.
2. You write: "I like to dab a wee bit of anti-seize compound on the threads." This is specifically discouraged by NGK for it's plugs, which have a zinc plating that acts as an anti seize. Here's their quote:
Issue
Applying anti-seize to the threads of spark plugs that have a metal plating allows the installer to mistakenly over-tighten the spark plug in the cylinder head; this stretches and fatigues the threads of the spark plugs, causing a much higher probability that the plug will break during installation or in some cases upon removal.
Solution
For spark plugs with special metal plating simply do not use anti-seize on initial installation; all NGK Spark Plugs are manufactured with a special trivalent zinc-chromate shell plating that is designed to prevent both corrosion and seizure to the cylinder head; thus eliminating the need for any thread compounds or lubricants.
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Nice article. Two brief comments:
1. You write: "There are marks on the flywheel, as with all Guzzi models, to indicate when each piston is at TDC but they are not as obvious as on the older engines." Not true for the newer V7 models. None on my '13 V7 Stone, for example.
2. You write: "I like to dab a wee bit of anti-seize compound on the threads." This is specifically discouraged by NGK for it's plugs, which have a zinc plating that acts as an anti seize. Here's their quote:
Issue
Applying anti-seize to the threads of spark plugs that have a metal plating allows the installer to mistakenly over-tighten the spark plug in the cylinder head; this stretches and fatigues the threads of the spark plugs, causing a much higher probability that the plug will break during installation or in some cases upon removal.
Solution
For spark plugs with special metal plating simply do not use anti-seize on initial installation; all NGK Spark Plugs are manufactured with a special trivalent zinc-chromate shell plating that is designed to prevent both corrosion and seizure to the cylinder head; thus eliminating the need for any thread compounds or lubricants.
Thanks SIB.
1. The subject of the 2.5 year old posting is a 1200 8V Stelvio. If the V7 has no flywheel marks, that's fine. Good to make the note. Just use your soda straw as shown.
2. The plugs onto which I used the anti-seize are not new.
However, I also use a little on new plugs but I also am careful about not using excessive torque when tightening. I've never ever had a problem except occasionally with plugs that have not been wiped with a little anti-seize.
H-D also recommends this in their manuals.
Do whatever makes you happy.
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BTW: I did not see any marks on the flywheel of my 13 NTX.
It appears that its a raised hump section of the flywheel and you align it horizontally dissecting the observation hole in half - if that makes sense.
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The stamped "D" and "S" marks on my flywheels have always been sort of close, but not spot-on.
Easier for me to stick something down the spark plug hole as I'm rotating the engine.
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Strangely, even though the newer small block engines do not have TDC markings on the flywheel, the bell housing nevertheless has the inspection hole, as well as the rubber plug for the hole. I suppose this is because the bell housing is the same casting as was used on older engines that did have the TDC flywheel markings. Or, perhaps, in Mandello del Lario, the flywheel department doesn't talk to the bell housing department.
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My guess, based on my limited knowledge of MG and owning 3 of them, is that the factory just didn't put much attention to getting all the markings on them. :BEER:
Such as no grease in bearing or splines, missing timing marks, half plastic fuel filters that split, engine mounting bolts not torqued/thread locked, ECUs not protected from rain, no fuses on aux lights, exhaust gaskets blowing out...
Just gotta get those little things sorted out from new, then ride the Guzzi's hard! :bike
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On the newer bikes there isn't really any need for marks on the flywheel. Why they still bother with the inspection bung beats me? Why do you need it? Finding close to TDC is easy enough and to set the valve lash you only have to ensure that the followers are on the base circle of the cams, a few degrees either side isn't going to make any difference. As for ignition points these are controlled by the ECU based on input from the phase sensor which is triggered by the 'Phonic Wheel' on the dummy-shaft or camshaft on the 2V models.
Any marks on the flywheel assembly and even the hole to look for them are nothing more than a quaint anachronism.
Pete
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On the newer bikes there isn't really any need for marks on the flywheel. Why they still bother with the inspection bung beats me? Why do you need it? Finding close to TDC is easy enough and to set the valve lash you only have to ensure that the followers are on the base circle of the cams, a few degrees either side isn't going to make any difference. As for ignition points these are controlled by the ECU based on input from the phase sensor which is triggered by the 'Phonic Wheel' on the dummy-shaft or camshaft on the 2V models.
Any marks on the flywheel assembly and even the hole to look for them are nothing more than a quaint anachronism.
Pete
Now that we have an explanation for the peep hole and the bung, can anyone explain why the clutch housing on the '13 V7 Stone also has a drain plug, complete with gasket?
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What? On the Stelvio/8V? It doesn't.
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Just a quick comment for any Guzzi noobs like me. I used the above procedure yesterday to adjust valves at 3,400 miles on a 2013 Stelvio I purchased 6 weeks ago with 1,890 miles on it. I'm used to doing BMW valves so it was a pleasant surprise to not have to be on my knees bending over to get to the valves to start with. After not ever seeing any flywheel marks, I defaulted to a chopstick with a felt pin line at TDC drawn on it, so I could see it approaching TDC in each cylinder. I rotated the wheel carefully in 6th gear by hand with the plugs out, which saved the hassle of removing the front cover. Start to finish took less than 2 hours, but could probably be done in one hour next time.
I found all valves loose, by quite a bit. I set them one at a time without using the two matched feeler gage method. It really would have made no difference from what I saw and they all held fine, when I rotated the motor before buttoning up.
Now the really good news: my bike was suffering from a number of minor streetability issues that made me think I may have to do a throttle body sync. These included being rougher and stumbling at starting, rougher when running with a bit more vibration up to around 4,000 rpm then smoothing out. It also started dying at the first stop sign a block from home as it warmed up. It was a bit more difficult to shift smoothy, and had a couple almost flat spots around 2,800 and 3,300 rpm to pull past. Basically it needed to be fully warmed up and to run above 4200 rpm to be happy.
ALL OF THIS WENT AWAY after the valve adjustment. Cold starts are smooth. No dying at the first stop sign. You can ride it around at 2500 rpm if you want without any stumbling even, and pull smoothly throughout the rpm range. No real change in vibration levels between 3200rpm and 4500rpm as there had been previously. Much smoother now at lower RPMs.
I was beginning to think I had a throttle body sync to check on but now it idles smoothly, starts smoothly when stone cold, runs smoothly.. so I'll wait a while on checking the throttle bodies.
So, I am learning how these bikes respond to proper tuning and just how sweet they are when tuned properly. I love this bike.
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Okay, I made a small edit to the original post to clarify that this procedure also applies to models other than the Stelvio NTX. Thanks for those who have asked about that.
I hope everybody is doing well ! I still have a cherry Griso SE.
DL
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Glad all is well & the Griso is still honking, one of the best Guzzi has made.
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Nice write-up!
On my big Cali Touring, I put a bamboo skewer down the spark plug hole,
put the bike in 6th on the stand and rotate the rear wheel to find TDC on each
cylinder. Spark Plug Boot grease is your friend!
I also have a set of go-nogo feeler gauges which make life easier. Each "feeler" is
graduated in .002" segments: The .008" feeler is ground to .006" on the end. If
.006" passes, but .008" doesn't, then you know you are between .006" and .008".
You can then fine tune things as you go. Great for lazy SOBs like me. :smiley:
The plugs look fine to me at 5K - I change them at 10K. No major change in driveability
or fuel economy, so I can't be too far off. Plugs, valve adjustment, engine oil, filter, and trans oil change
is a leisurely afternoon's work. That's really it for most periodic maintenance on this machine.
I do the rear end fluid when I do the rear tire, but I'm thinking I'm going to extend that interval -
the fluid comes out very clean, and there's not that much on the drain plug. YMMV.
-Stretch
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All my Clearances (2009 Stelvio NTX) are set to 0.1mm.
Have been for just over 30,000 miles, and I've not had to adjust them since.
Runs a little quieter.
The Clearances on the 8V 1200s open up as the Engine temp increases.
This isn't an 'urban myth', or 'internet hearsay', it's been measured.
Not saying anyone has to do it, just my personal preference.
I'll also second the bit about not putting anything on the Spark Plug Threads.
Any lube on any threads, and you should reduce the quoted Torque Figure by around 20%.
I still wouldn't do it, it can also (theoretically) interfere with the Grounding/Earthing.
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FWIW, if you run a Beetle Map, Mark recommends .006" & .008" (.10mm & .15mm) if you are using his map rather than the .004" and .006" per the manual. I've run them at both, not a huge difference.
Great tutorial overall. A few other points to get your Guzzi Running at its best. Here is what I do.
1. Valve Adjust & New Plugs
2. TPS & Learning Parameters Reset
3. TB Balance
4. Final TPS & LP reset
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Autolearning Parameter Reset is only necessary after a Re-Map.
No harm in doing it at other times, but it's not needed.
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Autolearning Parameter Reset is only necessary after a Re-Map.
No harm in doing it at other times, but it's not needed.
Yes and no. The ECU will track and adjust fuel trims. Over time, they may/will adjust based on all the variables (spark/mixture/air cleaner/valve adjust, etc. etc.). Resetting them to baseline with the TPS may not be 'necessary', but it will be beneficial.
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FWIW, if you run a Beetle Map, Mark recommends .6" & .8" (.10mm & .15mm) if you are using his map rather than the .4 and .6 per the manual. I've run them at both, not a huge difference.
You might want to check those figures and look in the book again
Running 3/4 of an inch valve clearance has never been recommended (if even possible)
.1mm is usually called.004” or four thou (to 3 decimal places)
.15mm becomes .006” or six thou
.4”, .6” and ..8” In French become 10.16 mm, 15.24mm and 20.32mm respectively
Proper massive difference
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Now that would make it REALLY noisy!! :shocked:
Thanks for the explanation Bulldog, I'd misunderstood the full reasoning behind the ALP Reset. :thumb:
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You might want to check those figures and look in the book again
Running 3/4 of an inch valve clearance has never been recommended (if even possible)
.1mm is usually called.004” or four thou (to 3 decimal places)
.15mm becomes .006” or six thou
.4”, .6” and ..8” In French become 10.16 mm, 15.24mm and 20.32mm respectively
Proper massive difference
LOL.... Yes, laziness. I neglected the .00. Is self evident, but good catch. .006"=.10mm........ .008" = .15mm
I edited the original.
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LOL.... Yes, laziness. I neglected the .00. Is self evident, but good catch. .006"=.10mm........ .008" = .15mm
I edited the original.
Sadly not, that was my point of giving conversion, the decimal point bit just humour,
Unless merkan inches are smaller than ours ?
.004” is .1mm using world std inches ! .006” is .15mm, .008” is .22mm
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Sadly not, that was my point of giving conversion, the decimal point bit just humour,
Unless merkan inches are smaller than ours ?
.004” is .1mm using world std inches ! .006” is .15mm, .008” is .22mm
No, same standards, just poor memory. I'm tracking, just goobering it up with my fat fingers on my small screened cell phone and not stopping to check. .004 & .006in are .10 & .15mm, and .006 & .008in = .15 & .22mm.
Regardless, rechecking my notes, a Beetle Mapped 8V roller's recommended Valve Clearance for roller tappet bikes: 0.10mm (4 thou) Inlet, 0.15mm (6 thou) Exhaust rather than the .006 & .008. I had them switch AND shuffled.... lol. Thanks for keeping it straight.
This is why BTW, I decided to stick with .10 & .15mm (.006 & .008") on all my bikes: Breva 750/Griso/1200Sport/Norge/Stornello except for Convert which I use .009mm. I have a hot rod Type 4 Motor in my 912 that uses elephant foot adjusters (like most Guzzi's) and stainless steel pushrods. That is 0 clearance. Thankfully, I have all this on a laminated tag taped to the frame rail because I have a bad habit of reversing and getting mixed up. Lysdexia is a thing :evil:
Gotta cut back on the Post Retirement winter Bourbon consumption :bow: :boozing:. It's a nice day today and over 50, so I think I'll take my .004 & .006mm valve clearance Beetle mapped Griso for a ride.
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I had Airheads for many years which used the .006 and .008 so not hard to remember. :thumb:
kk