Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: leafman60 on April 15, 2013, 08:17:18 AM
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This is the kind of thing that makes me very reluctant to recommend a Guzzi to non-mechanical or non-Guzzi riders.
Spark plug caps are a known weakness for the Stelvio and probably other 8-valve Guzzi bikes. About 2 months ago it happened to me not far from home. I was not sure what was going on. I tried several things to fix the unknown-to-me issue including fuel injector removal and testing and substitution of another plug wire. I ended up taking the bike way the hell to Steve at Riders Hill ( I needed him to do some other stuff anyway). Steve and Ian discovered a broken plug cap and replaced it under warranty.
Now it's happened again. Thankfully, it's in my back yard again. (I guess taking numerous pictures of churches on my travels has bought me a little concession from above.)
As indicated by another current thread of mine, I just completed a 1200 mile sojourn on the Stelvio. Yesterday morning, my 4-hour return route to home was done completely in a relentless and heavy rain on the Interstate. The bike rain flawlessly. It never skipped a beat. I also found out that my Traxx bags did not leak a drop.
At home, the rain continued. I didnt even try to unload the bike and I left it parked outside in the rain for about 3 hours. When the rain stopped, I unloaded all my gear and cranked it up to run it over to my storage location. It ran rough and died a few times. Very unusual. Within a short distance, one cylinder dropped-out just like before when I had the plug cap problem.
I know it's one of the plug caps again. It's either the "new" one Steve installed or it's the other one that we probably should have replaced at the same time.
I will not go back with the stock caps. I know Steve would provide me another one under warranty but I would not trust it.
Several threads exist, especially over on Guzzitech, regarding this problem and the fix of replacing the stock plug caps with NGK caps. That's what I'm gonna do.
http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/190/4740.html
http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/219/4310.html
I suggest other 8-valve owners pay attention to this. It's another known, and apparaently non-addressed, fault with the Guzzis. It could leave you stranded.
For Stelvio owners, add this to the list of problems that include the pervasive wiring short inside the auxiliary lamps. The short is bad enough but the problem there is that it can also shut down the bike since it blows the main charging circuit and causes the battery to go completely dead. The fuse has been moved to new location on the NTX models that is not explicitly identified in the owners manual. It's behind the right side panel. I suggest doing what PYoung and I did and install individual fuses inside the lamp bodies, even with replacement lamps.
These sort of things are BS. Its like the known fuel line/filter problems that stranded riders a few years ago. None of these issue involve significant mechanical issues and they are easy to address IF YOU KNOW ABOUT THEM.
Many riders are not inclined to have to learn all the known problems with a new bike that they better fix before venturing out very far on it. Guzzis remain a quirky bike that may be best for a quirky rider accustomed to fixing all these things than can go wrong with it.
People new to the brand should BE AWARE.
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If you remove the plug caps as they show, with a long screwdriver in over the exhaust port, you'll likely never have a problem.
If you pull on the wire to remove the cap, then it is toast.
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There was a very low millage V65SP for sale at the spring Florida rally with original plug caps. My first thought was those thing need to be replaced with NDK caps. :BEER:
Matt
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13.5k miles on original caps - probably 1800miles or more in rain (including a 700mile day LLLOOOONNNGGGG stretch one miserable day last Sept thru West Texas) without a problem - except for about 15ml of water in the CARC
I use the nylon tie under the elbow to pull mine off - but wouldn't hurt to carry a spare using the theory that if you have it you will never need it
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I replaced mine with the NGKs the week I got it and have had 30+ thousand trouble free miles. In that regard.
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After the dealer replaced one at the 10000km maintenance, I orderd the japanese silicon ngk for japan. The ones in you link. They fit, but are after a while also a bit tight to get off, and they don't break but it doesn't feel good. I would go for the cheap ngk option, with some lenght new wire, not to fancy.
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If you remove the plug caps as they show, with a long screwdriver in over the exhaust port, you'll likely never have a problem.
If you pull on the wire to remove the cap, then it is toast.
I've never pulled on the wires. I attached a nylon tie around the boot rubber from the beginning and pulled on that. Two people that I know tried to pry the caps off with a screwdriver and cut the boot rubber.
Pete R and Daytona Paul have also had similar problems and I imagine they too know how to remove a plug boot. lol
Apparently the boot of mine that is going bad now is the one Steve installed recently and it's never been removed !
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See also -
http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/163/4310.html?p=34578
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So you're not recommending a Stelvio to Mr. N. to replace his K1200S?
;)
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This is the kinda thing that makes be very reluctant to recommend a Guzzi to non-mechanical or non-Guzzi riders.
Spark plug caps are a known weakness for the Stelvio and probably other 8-valve Guzzi bikes. About 2 months ago it happened to me not far from home. I was not sure what was going on. I tried several things to fix the unknown-to-me issue including fuel injector removal and testing and substitution of another plug wire. I ended up taking the bike way the hell to Steve at Riders Hill ( I needed him to do some other stuff anyway). Steve and Ian discovered a broken plug cap and replaced it under warranty.
Now it's happened again. Thankfully, it's in my back yard again. (I guess taking numerous pictures of churches on my travels has bought me a little concession from above.)
As indicated by another current thread of mine, I just completed a 1200 mile sojourn on the Stelvio. Yesterday morning, my 4-hour return route to home was done completely in a relentless and heavy rain on the Interstate. The bike rain flawlessly. It never skipped a beat. I also found out that my Traxx bags did not leak a drop.
At home, the rain continued. I didnt even try to unload the bike and I left it parked outside in the rain for about 3 hours. When the rain stopped, I unloaded all my gear and cranked it up to run it over to my storage location. It ran rough and died a few times. Very unusual. Within a short distance, one cylinder dropped-out just like before when I had the plug cap problem.
I know it's one of the plug caps again. It's either the "new" one Steve installed or it's the other one that we probbaly should have replaced at the same time.
I will not go back with the stock caps. I know Steve would provide me another one under warranty but I would not trust it.
Several threads exist, especially over on Guzzitech, regarding this probloem and the fix of replacing the stock plug caps with NGK caps. That's what I'm gonna do.
http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/190/4740.html
http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/219/4310.html
I suggest other 8-valve owners pay attention to this. It's another known, and apparaently non-addressed, fault with the Guzzis. It could leave you stranded.
For Stelvio owners, add this to the list of problems that include the pervasive wiring short inside the auxiliary lamps. The short is bad enough but the problem there is that it can also shut down the bike since it blows the main charging circuit and causes the battery to go completely dead. The fuse has been moved to new location on the NTX models that is not explicitly identified in the owners manual. It's behind the right side panel. I suggest doing what PYoung and I did and install individual fuses inside the lamp bodies, even with replacement lamps.
These sort of things are BS. Its like the known fuel line/filter problems that stranded riders a few years ago. None of these issue involve significant mechanical issues and they are easy to address IF YOU KNOW ABOUT THEM.
Many riders are not inclined to have to learn all the known problems with a new bike that they better fix before venturing out very far on it. Guzzis remain a quirky bike that may be best for a quirky rider accustomed to fixing all these things than can go wrong with it.
People new to the brand should BE AWARE.
Oh please! ::)
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I will not go back with the stock caps.
Leaf, sorry to hear of your troubles. The solution is this - abandon the OEM caps. As at the link you posted, get a set of NGK SB05E plug caps - about $5 a piece. Dealerships that know will stock them and suggest them to the owner of every Stelvio that comes into the shop. Sure, you shouldn't have to do stuff like that on a new bike, but it's a cheap enough fix and bluntly the price one sometimes pays for riding an essentially boutique production, hand assembled (with the inherent faults from human error) exotic Italian motorcycle.
For Stelvio owners, add this to the list of problems that include the pervasive wiring short inside the auxiliary lamps. The short is bad enough but the problem there is that it can also shut down the bike since it blows the main charging circuit and causes the battery to go completely dead. The fuse has been moved to new location on the NTX models that is not explicitly identified in the owners manual. It's behind the right side panel. I suggest doing what PYoung and I did and install individual fuses inside the lamp bodies, even with replacement lamps.
Those wires short because folks put them in the wrong spot during PDI. The slack in the wire needs to be curled up in the rubber boot, not in the metal body. Most people stuff the wire into the body, then put the boot on. This means the wires constantly vibrate against the metal and shortly wear through. The prevention (or fix) is to stuff the wires into the boot, then put the boot on. It's the subject of a tech bulletin and covered in Guzzi tech training now.
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This is the kinda thing that makes be very reluctant to recommend a Guzzi to non-mechanical or non-Guzzi riders.
A fair point actually - and probably good advice for anyone who would self identify as non-mechanical. Although I'd also suggest that it's beneficial to posses mechanical skills any time one ventures 1200 miles from home on a motorcycle, regardless of brand. It can certainly come in handy at times.
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David, as I replied on Guzzitech if you are swapping to SB05E caps buy a couple of feet of copper core HT lead too as you will probably find the LH lead a bit too short for the NGK caps.
Pete
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Yes, thanks, I picked up on that short wire situation already. I should have already just replaced these caps but I just didnt pay enough attention. Luckily, I was not stranded or anything bad.
Thanks, Pete. As with the others, I always appreciate your input and help.
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Those wires short because folks put them in the wrong spot during PDI. The slack in the wire needs to be curled up in the rubber boot, not in the metal body. Most people stuff the wire into the body, then put the boot on. This means the wires constantly vibrate against the metal and shortly wear through. The prevention (or fix) is to stuff the wires into the boot, then put the boot on. It's the subject of a tech bulletin and covered in Guzzi tech training now.
Yes, thanks for the reminder post. I covered that along with pics in a thread on Guzzitech back when it happened to me.
After talking with more than one dealer, I am not sure the problems was with dealer PDI. I'm told the internal lamp wiring is something that dealers have nothing with doing. The lamps come from the Guzzi factory like that.
As big or bigger a point is the fuse situation. Regardless about who packed the wires in the lamps, these should not be wired in such a way that a shorted lamp will blow a main charging fuse that can shut down the whole darn bike ! lol Crazy. This is especially true after they moved the main fuse and didnt clearly indicate its location in the manual. A smaller separate fuse should be on the lamp circuit alone.
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A fair point actually - and probably good advice for anyone who would self identify as non-mechanical. Although I'd also suggest that it's beneficial to posses mechanical skills any time one ventures 1200 miles from home on a motorcycle, regardless of brand. It can certainly come in handy at times.
Lol, oh good lord. 1200 miles is nothing and modern bikes should not need a mechanically-minded person to ride one that far.
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I have a pair of SB05E caps on the way. I just ordered them off amazon. They were under $3 each with shipping added of a little over $2. My total bill is under $10 delivered.
Like the lamp fuse issue, these fixes are cheap and simple BUT they are problems that could have serious consequences and leave a rider stranded way the hell out in the middle of nowhere.
If I was a Guzzi dealer, before selling a new bike I would replace all 8V plug caps with the NGK ones and Id wire-in separate fuses to the aux lamps even after I made sure the wires were in the rubber boots.
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Leafman, why are you going "way the hell out in the middle of nowhere" in the first place. The only place I know of a Starbucks "way the hell out in the middle of nowhere" is in New Mexico. ;D :BEER:
Matt
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Leafman, why are you going "way the hell out in the middle of nowhere" in the first place. The only place I know of a Starbucks "way the hell out in the middle of nowhere" is in New Mexico. ;D :BEER:
Matt
;D
Or a Kristy Kremer. :o
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Lol, oh good lord. 1200 miles is nothing and modern bikes should not need a mechanically-minded person to ride one that far.
What is the distance limitation? ~; I was at Crater Lake when my aux lights decided to strand the bike. That was + or - 3000 miles from home. ;D
Good thing I turned things off before I put in the last fuse I had other wise I might still be there. :o ;D
John Henry
edit: when my plug caps failed, I insulated the bend with electrical tape for a couple of weeks until I got replacements. They were lovingly delivered to me at the Virginia rally at the time. Using Waynes advice. I have had them out several times since and have not had a problem.
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Yes, thanks for the reminder post. I covered that along with pics in a thread on Guzzitech back when it happened to me.
After talking with more than one dealer, I am not sure the problems was with dealer PDI. I'm told the internal lamp wiring is something that dealers have nothing with doing. The lamps come from the Guzzi factory like that.
As big or bigger a point is the fuse situation. Regardless about who packed the wires in the lamps, these should not be wired in such a way that a shorted lamp will blow a main charging fuse that can shut down the whole darn bike ! lol Crazy. This is especially true after they moved the main fuse and didnt clearly indicate its location in the manual. A smaller separate fuse should be on the lamp circuit alone.
That's not quite correct; the lamps come with the wiring all curled up in the end cap, and at PDI the dealer has to remove the cap and pull the pigtail to the vehicle harness out. Unfortunately the Hella instructions don't come with the lights, which stress to tuck the excess into the boot not the body... hence the disconnect.
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Received my NGK SB05E spark plug caps for my 2012 Stelvio NTX today. They look fine and I expect to install them later tonight or tomorrow and hopefully forget about this issue.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3395.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3395.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3396.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3396.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3398.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3398.jpg.html)
Update-
Okay, here we go.
The sealing boot of the SB05E does not fit tightly around the stock Stelvio spark plug.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3649.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3649.jpg.html)
The proper cap would be an SD05E but they are not available in US. The solution is to swap a smaller sealing boot from an SD05F cap (that is available) onto the SB05E. The SD05F will not fit the terminal of the stock plug but its boot fits tightly around the stock plug.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3651.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3651.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3646.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3646.jpg.html)
Boots are easily swapped between the SB05E and SD05F
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3653.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3653.jpg.html)
A little dielectric grease will help installation of cap onto plug
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3656.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3656.jpg.html)
A grab tab can be fashioned to the cap to facilitate removal later
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3658.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3658.jpg.html)
Inserting new cap into plug well may require slight working but it fits easily
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3660.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3660.jpg.html)
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Received my NGK SB05E spark plug caps for my 2012 Stelvio NTX today. They look fine and I expect to install them later tonight or tomorrow and hopefully forget about this issue.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3398.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3398.jpg.html)
I haven't changed mine out yet (27K miles) but I guess I should think about it.
Are you going to change out the HT leads for additional length, or re-route the stock ones?
Lannis
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I'm gonna check the length of the stock wires. If I can re-route them and use them as several folks say is possible, I will. Otherwise, I'll replace them with some custom-cut leads.
I will post pics and results in a day or two.
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;D
Or a Kristy Kremer. :o
Leafman, why are you going "way the hell out in the middle of nowhere" in the first place. The only place I know of a Starbucks "way the hell out in the middle of nowhere" is in New Mexico. ;D :BEER:
Matt
Careful! We only have a few Starbucks. :) And Wayne, there is Krispy Kreme in NM, only two I think :)
And, yes, you can be way out in the middle of no where and only have ridden a couple hundred miles :) Join us at Datil and see ;)
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Not to hijack,
but remember when my Sport 1100 fell over at the gas station and broke the LH plug cap off...
Had to jsut stuff the wire onto the top of the plug and glom on a buttload of electrical tape to get home...
And - back to the subject, it WAS an NGK cap.
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Ok boys. The new caps are installed and it's a very simple job.
You do not need to remove any of the side covers of the bike for this operation and I did not need any wires longer than the stock leads.
First, remove the snapped-in MG logo badge with a small screwdriver or similar pry.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3400.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3400.jpg.html)
Remove the screw that holds the silver wire cover.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3401.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3401.jpg.html)
The stock spark plug boot cap is exposed.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3403.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3403.jpg.html)
Pull the boot cap off the spark plug. I typically use a nylon tie wrapped around the boot.
It should come off easily. The Guzzi manual says to use a screwdriver inserted through the exhaust port cooling fins to pry up on the bottom of the boot.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3404.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3404.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3405.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3405.jpg.html)
If you wish to remove the wire lead from the boot before cutting it, grasp the wire firmly and screw it out from the rubber boot.
The brass threads of the wire terminal end is obvious.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3406.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3406.jpg.html)
Cut the stock wire above the shrink-fit covering of the terminal end.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3410.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3410.jpg.html)
Check the length of the wire to verify that it is long enough to reach to the top of the plug well. My Stelvio had more than enough wire on both left and right cylinders to easily reach the plug well. If the left side is too short, you can re-route the wire around the frame member, shown here near the coil, to gain more slack.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3408.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3408.jpg.html)
Note that the plug wire is routed inside a protective plastic conduit. While performing this task, I discovered one of my conduits filled with water.
To make sure water will drain from the conduit and to give enough wire exposure for fitting the new spark plug cap, cut back the protective conduit about an inch and a half or 35-40 mm.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3412.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3412.jpg.html)
I suggest removing the weather seal boot from the NGK cap instead of trying to insert the wire through it.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3416.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3416.jpg.html)
The wire end of the NGK replacement cap showing the male threads that go up into the plug wire end in order to make electrical contact.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3523.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3523.jpg.html)
Slip the sealing boot onto the plug wire. Then, hold the wire and cap firmly. Insert the wire end into the cap and screw the wire onto the male threads inside the cap. The male threads screw up into the metal wire conductor in the center of the insulated plug wire.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3417.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3417.jpg.html)
Work the rubber sealing boot onto the plastic plug cap and insert the cap down into the valve cover until it snap snugly onto the spark plug. A little dielectric grease on the plug or inside the sealing boot will help.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3418.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3418.jpg.html)
Fit the wire down into the holding area and install the silver cover with the small screw and reinstall the snap-in MG logo piece. A good idea is to apply some silicone or glue under the logo badge to make sure it does not vibrate out.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3422.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3422.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3428.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3428.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3427.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3427.jpg.html)
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Leaf....you the man.....
Ordered my caps earlier this week and was looking for some detailed instructions.
We are even now so thanks....that is unless you ended up getting that speeding ticket from the last favour.... :+=copcar
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Leaf....you the man.....
Ordered my caps earlier this week and was looking for some detailed instructions.
:+1
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Nicely documented. Thanks!
Bob
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I converted leafman's tutorial into a PDF. If anyone wants a copy you can download it from here...
Spark Plug Cap Replacement: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmm8mnhfr3p9ipr/Stelvio%20NTX%20NGK%20SB05E%20Spark%20Cap%20Replacement.pdf
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Got a small issue.
Picked up the SB50EP variety in Canada since the non "P" variety is not available here. Heard of many guys putting these in, however, the boot on the end of the plug is larger and does not fit in the plug hole. Does this just need to be forced in or just removed. I removed it for now and the bike runs perfectly fine....actually sounds better than before so I may have had an issue.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Darn, I wish you had just ordered those off amazon and gotten the SB05E.
I dont think I'd force them down in the plug well unless the fit not too tight. Getting the cap off and out may be trouble later.
Regarding the sealing boot, I don't know what issues you may encounter. You do not need a seal for the plug well itself since it is already open through the cooling fins. The only utility that I see for that lower boot would be to seal out water from entering the cap and saturating the plug connector terminal inside.
That may or may not be an issue. Riding in the rain will tell.
This is where I got mine. Under $10 for two, shipped.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=me%3DA131TE6FZZS8Q&field-keywords=SB05E
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Unfortunately Amazon does not ship to Canada (at least not with out a heafty shipping charge).
Looks like on the Canadian version the rubber boot on the bottom of the cap flares out and actually covers the bottom of the cap with a small hole for the plug. Guessing for extra water protection. The US version, the bottom of the cap is fully exposed and the rubber only covers the sides. I am just going to cut the flarred end of the boot off...instant US version...I hope.
Agreed that with the drain at the bottom should not be an issue but will give it a try anyways.
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I just bought the SB05E from Sparkplugs.com for less then $8 shipped.
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Well, tried cutting the boot but no go. Still too big. Took it completely off. Then started the bike, took the nozzle off the garden hoses and soaked both heads with a constant stream of water directed towards the plug opening. Had it pouring out the drain holes for about 2 minutes straight. Not one hiccup. Pretty sure that is about worse case scenario so not worried about riding in the rain anymore.
Bike actually feels smoother, but then again probably just my imagination.....
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Bike actually feels smoother, but then again probably just my imagination.....
Imagination is a great thing. Because of imagination I can imagine that I am dashing, debonair, witty, and my wife is happily married. :D
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If the issue is simply the sealing grommets around the bottom of the Bakelite tubes then these are easily procured simply by buying a pair of right angle NGK caps, (Sorry I can't offhand remember the part #.) and using the grommets off them. Give the caps to one of yer mates with a 2V bike for spares. You will probably find they have some spare grommets around if you ask as the first thing to get boogered when a 2 valver falls over is the plug caps.
Pete
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Bike actually feels smoother, but then again probably just my imagination.....
Mine runs better too.
I think the problem with the stock caps is one that's not always due to stress created during removal. Like I said earlier, I never pulled on my wires. I also have 5 or 6 thousand miles since my last valve check/adjust and plug removal. If plug removal caused the problem, that's a lot of mileage before the damaged cap showed itself.
The latest cap that failed was one that had not been removed after it was installed to replace my first faulty cap.
My Stelvio has about 10k miles now. I'm wondering if there is a crack in the internal parts of the stock set-up caused by the engine vibration.
When I have the time, I'm going to dissect the parts with a surgical knife and see if I can discover the fault.
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If the issue is simply the sealing grommets around the bottom of the Bakelite tubes then these are easily procured simply by buying a pair of right angle NGK caps, (Sorry I can't offhand remember the part #.) and using the grommets off them. Give the caps to one of yer mates with a 2V bike for spares. You will probably find they have some spare grommets around if you ask as the first thing to get boogered when a 2 valver falls over is the plug caps.
Pete
Pete, guess the million dollar question is how important are these sealing caps at the bottom (plug end) of the bakelite tube. Installed them without the grommet and flooded it with water and everything was fine. Do they serve another purpose???
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Canuck, the ends on the SB05E seal around the sparkplug.
Remember this picture posted earlier that looks at the end of the cap that goes on the plug ? Notice the little "Water Proof" on the box.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3398.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Bike%20Pics/IMG_3398.jpg.html)
If your water test caused no problems, that's good. You know how things work out, though. When you're way the hell out in the middle of nowhere in a rain storm is when the problem will occur ! lol
You may be okay, though. I'll look at mine again this weekend.
I thought you could easily order from amazon up there in CA. Hey I'll be coming to the Great White North later this summer.
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The seals do serve another purpose. According to my VW training, they add a ring of insulation to help thwart carbon tracking and spark leakage. Remember that 'lectricity is lazy stuff. It wants to find the easy route to ground. Any crud in the plug well, especially when it gets damp, provides the easy path -- just like routing your plug wires over metal surfaces does. You know that an improperly routed plug wire can make a light show at night when wet as it shorts out along its path. The same thing can happen at the wire ends, especially with resistor caps. The rubber ring interrupts it.
I'd guess that if the waterhose test was used on the same bike after adding some metal shavings to the mix you could make it short out.
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canuck IS on to something here. The much-used SB05E does not snugly fit and seal around the plug insulator. The plugs used with the Stelvio are 10 mm, not 14 mm. SD is for 10-12 mm, SB is for 14mm.
The SD is apparently very hard to find, though. I'm gonna look further into this and see if I can procure a reasonable source.
This is an SB05E installed on a Stelvio CR8EKB plug. It looks tight and it is close but there is a small space between the rubber sealing boot and the plug insulator. Water could penetrate.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3520.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3520.jpg.html)
This is an SB05E WITHOUT the sealing boot installed on the CR8EKB plug.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3524.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3524.jpg.html)
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When I have the time, I'm going to dissect the parts with a surgical knife and see if I can discover the fault.
You beat me to it. I was going to ask if you had measured excessive resistance on the old caps, but it sounds like you're going to dig into it the old fashion way (get a knife!). ;D
Looking forward to hearing back on the cause of death. ;-T
-NV
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I just got word from an NGK dealer that the SD05E is not available in the US. The SD05F IS available. It is the same as the SD05E except the cap is designed for threaded spark plug terminals. I'm ordering a pair of SD05F caps. I will remove the lower rubber seals from the SD caps and install them on my SB05E caps on the Stelvio. That way, I will have a good, tight moisture seal around the plug insulator.
Pics will come later.
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:pop
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You beat me to it. I was going to ask if you had measured excessive resistance on the old caps, but it sounds like you're going to dig into it the old fashion way (get a knife!). ;D
Looking forward to hearing back on the cause of death. ;-T
-NV
All of the ones that I have seen fail, go bad because the insulation cracks and they arc to the valve cover.
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I have the new seals etc. Pics to follow.
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When servicing 8V motors I have noticed a clearish yellowish material that has oozed out of the caps from heat. This is on the newer flat top 90* factory caps. Don't know if this is causing any spark issues but makes you wonder about the materials they use. These caps worked fine but for how long.
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When servicing 8V motors I have noticed a clearish yellowish material that has oozed out of the caps from heat. This is on the newer flat top 90* factory caps. Don't know if this is causing any spark issues but makes you wonder about the materials they use. These caps worked fine but for how long.
Yuch, sounds like some sort of yeast infection.
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That might be dielectric grease.
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Okay, here we go.
The sealing boot of the SB05E does not fit tightly around the stock Stelvio spark plug.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3649.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3649.jpg.html)
The proper cap would be an SD05E but they are not available in US. The solution is to swap a smaller sealing boot from an SD05F cap (that is available) onto the SB05E. The SD05F will not fit the terminal of the stock plug but its boot fits tightly around the stock plug.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3651.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3651.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3646.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3646.jpg.html)
Boots are easily swapped between the SB05E and SD05F
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3653.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3653.jpg.html)
A little dielectric grease will help installation of cap onto plug
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3656.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3656.jpg.html)
A grab tab can be fashioned to the cap to facilitate removal later
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3658.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3658.jpg.html)
Inserting new cap into plug well may require slight working but it fits easily
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3660.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Stelvio%20Plug%20Caps/IMG_3660.jpg.html)
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:pop
I was monitoring this thread and eventually my bike broke down with the same problem. Some electrical tape got me going again. I think I'm going to order the OEM cap and carry electrical tape or silicone tape. I may wrap a couple winds of tape around the caps as a preventive measure, though.
BTW, I don't think I did anything to damage the cap.
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the oem costs 10 x what the ngk costs
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I was monitoring this thread and eventually my bike broke down with the same problem. Some electrical tape got me going again. I think I'm going to order the OEM cap and carry electrical tape or silicone tape. I may wrap a couple winds of tape around the caps as a preventive measure, though.
BTW, I don't think I did anything to damage the cap.
The NGK option is an inexpensive one that seems to work better than the stock set-up. Buying both the SBO5E and the SD05F (for the smaller rubber seal) will cost maybe $10-15 max for both cylinders total.
You can wrap the stock wires/cap in tape and/or install some heat-shrink tubing over them but I am not sure that will always work 100 percent. I'm thinking that some of the problems occur because the stock wire actually breaks internally at the junction with the cap where there is connecting hardware.
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The NGK option is an inexpensive one that seems to work better than the stock set-up. Buying both the SBO5E and the SD05F (for the smaller rubber seal) will cost maybe $10-15 max for both cylinders total.
You can wrap the stock wires/cap in tape and/or install some heat-shrink tubing over them but I am not sure that will always work 100 percent. I'm thinking that some of the problems occur because the stock wire actually breaks internally at the junction with the cap where there is connecting hardware.
Its a long story, but i was forced to rely on silicone "Rescue Tape" as a repair while i wait to get into the dealer for the repair under warranty. I have ridden 3,000 miles and gone to three rallies (including Sturgis) with the patch job. The bike goes in the 29th for the spark plug cap and the aux light mount.
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After the local dealer destroyed my spark plug wires via rough handling, my experienced former dealer shop, who are undoing the damage, says that Guzzi spark plug wires have been an issue for a while, and they make their own spark plugs wires (they put new ends on them). Looks like replacing the wires is a checklist item for a Guzzi owner.
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After reading this thread, I am leaning toward getting the NGK SD05F caps and either the CR8EK or CR8EIX (Iridium) and skip the whole part about the SB05E caps. Anything wrong with just converting over to the threaded end spark plug equivalents and the threaded SD05F caps? What is so sacred about sticking with the OEM old style plug ends?
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Perhaps you could change to different terminals. I cant see why the terminal design alone would make a difference if the other plug parameters are the same.
The SD05F caps will not fit the terminals of the stock Stelvio NTX sparkplugs.
The sparkplugs have the push-on terminals and the SD05F fits the screw-on terminal plugs. SB05E fits the push-on terminal plugs but the rubber boot is too big.
To do it right, you get the SB05E so the cap will fit the plug and you get the SD05F for the correct size weather boot to use on the SB05E cap Got it ? Complicated but they are not expensive.
NGK doesn't import the proper cap with the proper weather seal which would be the SD05E in NGK nomenclature.
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The SD05F caps will not fit the terminals of the stock Stelvio NTX sparkplugs.
The sparkplugs have the push-on terminals and the SD05F fits the screw-on terminal plugs. SB05E fits the push-on terminal plugs but the rubber boot is too big.
I suppose you could use the CR8EIX iridium plugs with the SD05F caps. Those plugs have the screw-on terminals (or come with removable push-on terminals, at least). Does the SD05F fit under the removable cover or do you have to leave that off?
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I suppose you could use the CR8EIX iridium plugs with the SD05F caps. Those plugs have the screw-on terminals (or come with removable push-on terminals, at least). Does the SD05F fit under the removable cover or do you have to leave that off?
Oh, the SD05F looks just like the SB05E. Scroll up and look at the pics. It will fit just fine. The only difference is that the SD is for screw-on and the SB is for push-on.
These are straight caps and the wires bend over to align them with the plugs.
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Decided to do my Caps today, went a slightly different route (pretty normal for me!).
Used NGKs Red all-rubber Caps~
(http://www.msa-direct.co.uk/ProdImages/xl/sd05fm-p400.jpg)
Cut the leads right at the ends to give maximum length.
I pulled the New Caps internals out, hoping to fit the original in the sleeve, but it was too loose.
New cap sticks out a bit as you can see, but the upper 30mm or so is just an empty sleeve, the fitting the lead screws into is far enough down for the top to fold over easily, so it fits under the plastic cover.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hbGtbG/CapSwap.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hbGtbG)
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Bump upon request.
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Perhaps you could change to different terminals. I cant see why the terminal design alone would make a difference if the other plug parameters are the same.
The SD05F caps will not fit the terminals of the stock Stelvio NTX sparkplugs.
The sparkplugs have the push-on terminals and the SD05F fits the screw-on terminal plugs. SB05E fits the push-on terminal plugs but the rubber boot is too big.
To do it right, you get the SB05E so the cap will fit the plug and you get the SD05F for the correct size weather boot to use on the SB05E cap Got it ? Complicated but they are not expensive.
NGK doesn't import the proper cap with the proper weather seal which would be the SD05E in NGK nomenclature.
Just to experiment, I bought a pair of SB05E and a pair of SD05F and put them in my fairing pocket, to see how far the originals would go. Is the weakness of the originals an urban legend or not?
The left side (the hardest one to replace because you have to shift a fairing piece to reroute the wire) went bad at last year's National in New Hampshire, right in the fairground, so we had a bit of tech session to replace it. 33,000 miles.
The right side went bad just as we started a 2500 trip with friends. Took 5 minutes, 40,500 miles.
That amazes me, since the OEM boots LOOK and FEEL like they're the toughest, heaviest spark plug boots ever made. Obviously, however, they are not - someone screwed up the design on these, one of the simplest and longest-used functions in automotive history, and it's Japan Incorporated to the rescue ....
Lannis
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Simple. They are too hard to pull. And they have a rubber 90 degree bend. So the rubber gets cracked right below the 90 because people tend to pull on the wire and bend the and crack the rubber. Which is where the wire terminal is. So you get an arc once the crack opens up enough and humidity or such sends the voltage a few volts higher.
When my originals final, I replaced them with originals under warranty. I remove the replacements with care (never bend that 90). Those have about 50,000 miles now.
If they reduced the pull, we wouldn't have issues. If they double insulated the terminal so it didn't arc if it cracked the rubber elbow, we wouldn't have issues.
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Simple. They are too hard to pull. And they have a rubber 90 degree bend. So the rubber gets cracked right below the 90 because people tend to pull on the wire and bend the and crack the rubber. Which is where the wire terminal is. So you get an arc once the crack opens up enough and humidity or such sends the voltage a few volts higher.
When my originals final, I replaced them with originals under warranty. I remove the replacements with care (never bend that 90). Those have about 50,000 miles now.
If they reduced the pull, we wouldn't have issues. If they double insulated the terminal so it didn't arc if it cracked the rubber elbow, we wouldn't have issues.
In my case, I used a bit of "mechanical sympathy" and never pulled on the 90-deg bend ... I used a combination of pulling straight up and pushing from the bottom. I never minded - "tight" is good for a spark plug boot when you're traveling in monsoon conditions and want the bike to keep running.
You're right, they should have designed for "Normal Use" and not built a weak point into the part that wasn't user-friendly ....
Jeep did that on the windshield wipers on my 1980 J10 pickup. On almost every other car I know, you can pull the windshield wipers back off the windshield to clean it or scrape ice off of it. On the Jeep, the normal pull that you would use to move the wipers back would snap the linkage right in two - they weren't made to pull back but your average service station guy didn't know that .... OR your normal owner.
Lannis
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My Griso had the later version of those caps and had a ton insulation on them but the bike would run like crap at low rpm or in the rain. For $20 and a hour's worth of work I'd say the SB05E/SD05F mod is the beat bang for the buck in improvement you can make on an 8V.
Thanks again Leafman!
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Just had this done on my 8V Norge. It's all fun and games until you want to remove the plugs again and can't get a grip on the new plug cap and the wire pulls out. Yeah, thats going to be a good long term fix. Time to buy a cache of plug wire...... Stuff like this pisses me off.
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Just had this done on my 8V Norge. It's all fun and games until you want to remove the plugs again and can't get a grip on the new plug cap and the wire pulls out. Yeah, thats going to be a good long term fix. Time to buy a cache of plug wire...... Stuff like this pisses me off.
Try starting it with a long screwdriver through the port hole. Phang had a write up/photo of it:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Phang/sprakplugbootremoval.jpg)
Model: 1200 8V ENGINE.
Subject: Removing the spark plug boot correctly.
Dear Dealer,
We are writing to inform you of a practical and simple method for removing the spark plug boot on 1200 8V engines.
As shown in the photo, insert a normal flat headed screwdriver into the drain hole in the spark plug well on the head, on either the intake side or exhaust side. Apply leverage, pushing down on the screwdriver, to lift the boot.
This procedure significantly simplifies the removal of the spark plug boot and preventing damage to the boot itself, which is not reimbursable under warranty."
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A million thank yous.....
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The "correct way" of removing a plug boot is all well and fine. However, please be aware that, on my bike, the boot failed and to my knowledge the boot had always been removed by the "correct way."
I am not sure that the "correct way" with the screwdriver is a guarantee that you won't have a boot failure. Even if it works, it's sorta stupid to me to have to baby it that much. The NGK hard caps allow something you can pull on without creating a problem.
By the way, the stock rubber boots were supposedly a USA-made product!
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I find the best way to remove the stock plug caps is to slide a zip tie under them and lift them up.
Bob
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You can get your fingers down the tube to pull up on the NGK cap? :popcorn:
The "correct way" of removing a plug boot is all well and fine. However, please be aware that, on my bike, the boot failed and to my knowledge the boot had always been removed by the "correct way."
I am not sure that the "correct way" with the screwdriver is a guarantee that you won't have a boot failure. Even if it works, it's sorta stupid to me to have to baby it that much. The NGK hard caps allow something you can pull on without creating a problem.
By the way, the stock rubber boots were supposedly a USA-made product!
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Just stumbled on to this tread. After 2 valve lash adjustments and a replacement of the OEM plugs with Iridium's, I've never pulled the plug boot from the valve cover. Call me lazy, but I've just removed the 4 bolts and removed the cover, leaving the plug boot in place in the cover. It never occurred to me that I should remove the plug boot. Never had a problem (yet) and the plug boot just snaps back in place on the spark plug when replacing the valve cover.
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Just stumbled on to this tread. After 2 valve lash adjustments and a replacement of the OEM plugs with Iridium's, I've never pulled the plug boot from the valve cover. Call me lazy, but I've just removed the 4 bolts and removed the cover, leaving the plug boot in place in the cover. It never occurred to me that I should remove the plug boot. Never had a problem (yet) and the plug boot just snaps back in place on the spark plug when replacing the valve cover.
I would NEVER have thought of that, and I'll bet no one else has either. That's a great solution that won't destroy the boot ...
One of those forehead-slapping things!
Lannis
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You can get your fingers down the tube to pull up on the NGK cap? :popcorn:
Yes I can, but look at the original pictorial early in this thread. You can also make a zip-tie puller.
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Thanks for all the pics Leafman60, that's awesome.
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I ordered the NGK SB05E and the SD05F (to use the rubber boot off of and place on the SB05E) for my Alaska trip. Il put them in the bags and hope my originals dont fail but better safe than sorry I guess.......Now to take those running lights apart to check for chafing wires...
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Yes I can, but look at the original pictorial early in this thread. You can also make a zip-tie puller.
Have used the zip tie puller for six years now and still running original caps. I do carry a set of SB05E just in case.
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If you have the caps don't wait for a fail to put them on. It may not be a good time on the side of the road, it may also be raining.
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If you have the caps don't wait for a fail to put them on. It may not be a good time on the side of the road, it may also be raining.
Do they fail from how they are taken on and off, or do they just fail while on the bike on their own??
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Do they fail from how they are taken on and off, or do they just fail while on the bike on their own??
Generally they fail due to abuse when being removed. People grab the tops of them and twist and tug at them, sometimes with pliers, and they get ripped. Small tears in the corner of the cap usually and the spark earths to ground through there to the rocker cover.
The best way to remove any plug cap on an 8V is to insert a long, thin screwdriver through the cooling tunnel just above the exhaust header. You can poke about until you feel the rubber of the cap or, on the case of NGK caps the sealing cap on the end of the bakelite plug caps themselves, hook the screwdriver blade under it and lever it up from the bottom. Very easy after you get the hang of it.
Also note if you are fitting NGK caps to a Stelvio you will almost certainly need to make up a slightly longer HT lead for the left hand side or it won't fit under the lead cover. An inch or so is all that is needed.
Pete
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Do they fail from how they are taken on and off, or do they just fail while on the bike on their own??
Enhanced from an earlier post in this thread:
Just to experiment, I bought a pair of SB05E and a pair of SD05F and put them in my fairing pocket, to see how far the originals would go. Was the weakness of the originals an urban legend or not?
The left side (the hardest one to replace because you have to shift a fairing piece to reroute the existing wire to gain the extra inch that Pete mentions above) went bad at the National in New Hampshire, right in the fairground, so we had a bit of tech session to replace it. I had not had the boot off for 5,000 miles or so, rode about 600 miles to the rally, had started the bike for a ride-out, was idling through the fairground, and suddenly one side went dead. 33,000 miles on the bike. I would not have wanted to replace it on the side of a muddy highway 4,000 miles from home.
The right side went bad just as we started a 2500 trip with friends. Took 5 minutes, 40,500 miles on the bike. The bike went to one cylinder as it was running.
That amazes me, since the OEM boots LOOK and FEEL like they're the toughest, heaviest spark plug boots ever made. Obviously, however, they are not - someone screwed up the design on these, one of the simplest and longest-used functions in automotive history, and it's Japan Incorporated to the rescue ....
Lannis
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Enhanced from an earlier post in this thread:
Just to experiment, I bought a pair of SB05E and a pair of SD05F and put them in my fairing pocket, to see how far the originals would go. Was the weakness of the originals an urban legend or not?
The left side (the hardest one to replace because you have to shift a fairing piece to reroute the existing wire to gain the extra inch that Pete mentions above) went bad at the National in New Hampshire, right in the fairground, so we had a bit of tech session to replace it. I had not had the boot off for 5,000 miles or so, rode about 600 miles to the rally, had started the bike for a ride-out, was idling through the fairground, and suddenly one side went dead. 33,000 miles on the bike. I would not have wanted to replace it on the side of a muddy highway 4,000 miles from home.
The right side went bad just as we started a 2500 trip with friends. Took 5 minutes, 40,500 miles on the bike. The bike went to one cylinder as it was running.
That amazes me, since the OEM boots LOOK and FEEL like they're the toughest, heaviest spark plug boots ever made. Obviously, however, they are not - someone screwed up the design on these, one of the simplest and longest-used functions in automotive history, and it's Japan Incorporated to the rescue ....
Lannis
Thank You. I will replace mine before they fail on their own, and before my Alaska trip.
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On my first Norge, one of the spark plug caps/boots went bad after taking the bike to the dealer for its initial service. On my second Norge, I had the dealer (a different one!) replace the caps/boots before I rode the Norge off the lot. Preventative maintenance...
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Well, the NGK plug caps are now on order, so Il be cutting off the stock ones soon. Seems a shame to do this but if they all go bad like everyone says, I guess I better before Im stranded on the roadside....... :undecided:
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^ Yep.
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NGK Caps arrived today and I cut the old/stock ones out and put the new NGK in. Hope they dont give me any problems but those Guzzi ones seemed built pretty well???? Well...time (and miles) will tell. :bike-037:
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If you have the caps don't wait for a fail to put them on. It may not be a good time on the side of the road, it may also be raining.
Yeh I've never understood this thinking. The NGK combo is a $20 + 1 hour solution that should last for the life of the bike. It's not a wear item like a tire or a battery, and they will affect performance long before they actually fail.
I guess there is some challenge in babying the OEM plugs so that they will last but to me it's just one less thing to worry about.
Fix it and forget it.
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Yeh I've never understood this thinking. The NGK combo is a $20 + 1 hour solution that should last for the life of the bike. It's not a wear item like a tire or a battery, and they will affect performance long before they actually fail.
I guess there is some challenge in babying the OEM plugs so that they will last but to me it's just one less thing to worry about.
Fix it and forget it.
I carried my new ones, but it was an experiment, like leaving the stock mirrors on.
We KNOW they're going to fail, and people's plug wires and mirrors were failing in 4K to 20K miles, but let's see how far they WILL go. Maybe I can set some sort of record, or maybe mine WON'T fail.
So I found out - the mirrors failed within 1000 miles of each other, and the spark plug boots failed right on schedule.
The only thing I DIDN'T do that with was the flat tappets, for sort of obvious reasons involving huge piles of money, but until I hear different from another 8-valve owner, I'm claiming precedence with 40,000 miles on the original tappets and changed them out RIGHT before they failed - discolored but had not lost any material yet. The shop estimated I had another 500 or 1000 miles before bits would be in the bearings ....
Living dangerously! :wink:
Lannis
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Living dangerously! :wink:
Lannis
Retired curmudgeon!!!
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Retired curmudgeon!!!
And looking forward to my promotion to "Old Toot"....
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Lannis
I don't know but if you coasted more on the downhills you probably would have gotten more miles out of those flatties....
Mark
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Just a quick note to remind Leafman and others that these instructions are as useful today (2023) as they were in 2013. After changing my spark plugs today in my 2017 Griso, I swapped the OEM resistors for new NGK ones. Went with the SBO5E ones and added the large end caps from a pair of SDO5F’s. The step-by-step procedure with photos helped immensely. Only step I didn’t follow (forgot) was to attach cable ties to the new resistors to help get them off next time. Guess I’ll have to coax them off later on with a screwdriver through the exhaust port.
Regards,
Donzo
2017 Griso 8V SE
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Just a quick note to remind Leafman and others that these instructions are as useful today (2023) as they were in 2013. After changing my spark plugs today in my 2017 Griso, I swapped the OEM resistors for new NGK ones. Went with the SBO5E ones and added the large end caps from a pair of SDO5F’s. The step-by-step procedure with photos helped immensely. Only step I didn’t follow (forgot) was to attach cable ties to the new resistors to help get them off next time. Guess I’ll have to coax them off later on with a screwdriver through the exhaust port.
Regards,
Donzo
2017 Griso 8V SE
Hi and thanks. Yeah, I too have a late model Griso and I want to convert my plug caps. Also need to tear off the whole rear drive train and lube the suspension bearings. I also need to .... LOL
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A quick check shows that NGK has discontinued the SB05E although some are available on Ebay at a premium.
Perhaps a SD05E can be obtained from Europe that should work to directly replace the stock caps without using two NGK caps and swapping out the seals.
Ok, I just ordered a pair of NGK SD05E from:
https://www.moto-renzo.biz/Electrics--Electronics/Spark-Plug-Connectors-and-Ignition-Cables/SD05E.html?language=en
Total cost for two delivered to US was 23.65 EU. Fingers crossed that this will work. I'll update later to verify that these fit.
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Other than the spark plug issues,how has your experience been with the Stelvio after all this time.It must have been good if you still have it.My 2014 has been a great workhorse ove 86000 miles.
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Other than the spark plug issues,how has your experience been with the Stelvio after all this time.It must have been good if you still have it.My 2014 has been a great workhorse ove 86000 miles.
The Stelvio was maybe the most enjoyable motorcycle to ride that I've owned. Unfortunately, my 2012 model suffered upon me many problems and breakdowns. Everything that went wrong, I could trace back to poor engineering and quality control at the factory level. I sold it years ago and bought a new BMW GS. At the time I sold it, my thinking was, at almost 50k miles, the Stelvio was fully sorted. Doubly unfortunately, the man who bought it from me also had continual breakdowns and quality issues. I helped him for a while but he sold it shortly afterward and I thankfully lost track of where it is.
My experience with the Stelvio and also my prior experience with an '02 V11 Scura seriously impaired my assessment of the brand's quality. For those individuals who have logged large numbers of miles on any Guzzi, I consider you lucky and my hat is off to you. Like I said, they're wonderful when they are running. And, I recently acquired a late model Griso for short day trips not requiring large leaps of faith from me that I will avoid breakdowns on the distant road.
I hope Guzzi has their act together for this new series of bikes they've introduced.
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