Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Loftness on April 15, 2013, 04:00:50 PM
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First of all I guess this doubles as my introduction, though I've posted on a few other threads. I'm a new Guzzi owner, previous Triumph owner, and sometimes vintage scooter tinkerer. I love the Stone, as in perm-smile, slow down when I'm getting close to home and think if there's any where else I needed to go first, kinda love. I promised myself I'd ride it for a while before doing any major mods, but I switched out the mirrors right away for some simple bar ends (which work great) and I got my hands on a set of four LED indicators which I would like to use in lieu of the stock signals.
My preface: I'm a bike-wiring newbie, but not a complete electrical newbie as I do electrical work around the house all the time and enjoy it.
So today I decided to just hook up the LEDs to the rear set to test it from stock and see what I was in for. I connected the first LED to the right rear...the wires there were red and blue and it seemed obvious that blue was neutral judging by the other hookups. I powered her up and all lights worked (blinked) at normal speed. When I switched the LED to the left rear all lights still blinked but at double-time. The wires for left-rear were light blue (pos) and blue (neg).
So.......I'm assuming I'm going to need either a resistor in the line or a new flasher unit (or both?). I didn't have time to do this test for the front lights but I'm assuming I'll find more of the same.
I'd love some advice/tips on how to proceed. I haven't been able to find much Guzzi V7 specific info so far. Links to resistors or whatever I'd need appreciated if possible. Thank you!
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It's an easy fix. Just replace the flasher unit with one designed for LEDs. To be sure you get a compatible one, check with the folks who sold you the lights. If you want to wing it, look for one that is not load dependent. In other words, one that works on a timer instead of bimetal points. Beware the ones that advertise as 'electronic'. The term is meaningless in this context.
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Thank you. Now...anyone know where the current flasher unit is found? I have no idea what one looks like. Also, would there be just one for the whole bike or one for front and one for back? (I'm assuming just one as the LED installed in the rear affected the front too).
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Don't know where it is located. I'd start near the fuses ans relays. It should be about the diameter of a 35mm film can. It's probably shorter, but might be as long. You can find it by turning on the flashers and following the sound.
Yes, your changing of the rear affected the front. You have reduced the load on the system by about half. The flasher 'sees' the reduced load as a blown out bulb. The lower load makes it tick faster. That's why you need a timed flasher rather than a load-based unit. If you really want a thrill, change out the front too, and then with the flashers running, rev the bike. If the flasher blinks at all (heavy duty ones won't), as more power becomes available the lights will go from 'flash' to 'strobe'. The cycle rate will make you think your lights will explode.
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Ha!
So why did it flash normally withy the LED on the right, but speed up when I put it on the left?
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They tend to flash faster to indicate a bulb out. In the first side you did the circuit could still see the good bulb. When you switched to the other side now you had TWO LED's in the circuit so it blinked faster.
To test this, put a bulb back in in the first side.
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Well that's the thing (which I didn't explain well). I only got the fast flash if I either left bulbs out or had the LED on the left. R=LED, L=Reg resulted in normal flashing. R=Reg, L=LED resulted in fast flashing.
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Thank you. Now...anyone know where the current flasher unit is found? I have no idea what one looks like. Also, would there be just one for the whole bike or one for front and one for back? (I'm assuming just one as the LED installed in the rear affected the front too).
It could look like one of these: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Turn-Signal-Flasher/_/N-9cjef Turn on the directionals, and hopefully you'll hear the clicking from somewhere under the seat. I'm hoping your bike isn't like some Ducatis that are controlled by something in the dash. At that point, you either need to add a resistor to each bulb, or an LED load equalizer. https://www.denniskirk.com/show-chrome/dual-load-equalizer-13304a.p213609.prd/213609.sku
Ken
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No clicking under the seat. There's a weird electrical moan just under the tank when I switch the directional on, but then nothing. No clicking of any kind. I'll look into it more tomorrow when I ask around at the shop.
Thanks for all the input everyone. ;-T
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Another decent theory shot to hell by facts. :P
Have no idea now.
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It's an easy fix. Just replace the flasher unit with one designed for LEDs. To be sure you get a compatible one, check with the folks who sold you the lights. If you want to wing it, look for one that is not load dependent. In other words, one that works on a timer instead of bimetal points. Beware the ones that advertise as 'electronic'. The term is meaningless in this context.
I don't believe there is a flasher unit. The turn signals are controlled by a black box in the headlight nacelle or dash.
I wanted to convert the turn signals on my 2009 V7C. Found out I could not do it easily because there is no flasher unit.
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No flasher on the newer V7 small blocks as as it controlled by the dash.
Yep - this is also true of the older V7Cs as well.
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Bleh. So...would resistors in the circuit correct the issue? Anyone know?
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On my friends Ducati, he had some big honkin' resistors that were mounted in front of each directional. I don't remember what the value of the resistors was. Maybe try a googie search
Ken
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Follow up question: If hook up all four directionals and the all work, though at double-time, is that an issue for the system? I actually don't mind faster flashing as it would still get the attention of drivers.
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Information from Superbrightled.com
Apparently the load resistors heat up like an incandescent bulb, and should be mounted as to not damage plastics etc.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/flashers-load-resistors/tail-light-load-resistor-kit/190/831/
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Bleh. So...would resistors in the circuit correct the issue? Anyone know?
I'm sure that a huge load resistor would correct it.
It is also possible (even probable) that the dash senses the LED as an open circuit during the off time. My Stelvio does. A simple light load resistor, like a 680 ohm, 1/2 watt, across the LED would fix it if so.
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What's the point of using led lights if you have to up the load to get them to work? Just asking so don't kick my arse.
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What's the point of using led lights if you have to up the load to get them to work? Just asking so don't kick my arse.
Depends on how much you have to up the load. If it is a really small amount, not a problem.
But IF done right, LEDs are much brighter, even if you aren't saving a bit of power. (if done wrong, they are nowhere near as bright)
But I suspect it is more a farkle/bling thing. Since the turn signals are on for such a small amount of time in the big picture, it really isn't about saving battery power.
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I love the Stone, as in perm-smile, slow down when I'm getting close to home and think if there's any where else I needed to go first, kinda love. I promised myself I'd ride it for a while before doing any major mods, but I switched out the mirrors right away for some simple bar ends (which work great) and I got my hands on a set of four LED indicators which I would like to use in lieu of the stock signals.
Totally agree with you, just drove my Stone home from Tulsa on Sunday. Can't stop smiling :) what brand of bar ends did you put on it? I've been looking around, but I can't decide....
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What's the point of using led lights if you have to up the load to get them to work? Just asking so don't kick my arse.
My reason was two-fold. This is obviously purely subjective but I loathe the standard signals and prefer something smaller; more unobtrusive. But, and this is the second reason, if they're going to be smaller I still need them to make great light and be noticed when they're working. That's why I decided to try and switch them out.
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I went ahead and went through with the job. When you're dealing with wiring there's a point where you have to decided whether or not to jump in, and when I reached that point (snip-snip) I decided aw hell why not.
I did the back two first, followed by the front. On both sets I added quick disconnects to the line, flat inserts at the back and bullets in the front b/c of tubing. The back was easier because there is plenty of room to store the wires in the brake light assembly, while everything is naked, ie out in the open, at the front. I had to do a little tweaking here and there (spacers in the back to make sure the LEDs were fully visible around the tail light for instance). I decided to NOT yet add any kind of resistors to the line b/c the Stone does recognize the LEDs so they work without the help. Oddly, sometimes they blink normally and sometimes they are a little quicker...so I may down the line add resistors to make sure I'm not messing with the cpu every time I make a turn.
I've added a couple pics here so you can see the finished product. I like the look. They're much more subtle now, and the black backs and clear fronts match up well. I would have used chrome ones on the rear if doing it again, but the black still looks fine. Most importantly they're bright and they work.
Also, Esofconnor, you can see the bar ends I went with.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8540/8674462493_4c882bde04.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95195757@N06/8674462493/)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8536/8674461663_5a7e9caef1.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95195757@N06/8674461663/)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8257/8675568434_110c576e77.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95195757@N06/8675568434/)
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Nice look on that.
I also like LED lights. For size and brightness and low current draw.
I changed the ones out on the T5 for those reasons. I also learned more about flasher units. There are units made for 6 LED's and 4 LED's. That does not include LED dash indicators BTDT. The bonus is I replaced the two flasher units on the T5 with one made for LED's. Simple is better :)
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And I've learned that the Stone doesn't have a flasher unit.
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Follow up question: If hook up all four directionals and the all work, though at double-time, is that an issue for the system? I actually don't mind faster flashing as it would still get the attention of drivers.
Some states, perhaps with Uncle Sam's help, have mandated turn signals may not flash more than two times per second. So if your units are less than 20 flashes in 10 seconds you're probably OK. It is something to be aware of simply because if it's a violation it gives someone a reason to stop you and check everything else.
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i have now mounted leds on my 2014 v7 special - with resistors on each turn signal - and it works without a problem and with the correct frequency
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i have now mounted leds on my 2014 v7 special - with resistors on each turn signal - and it works without a problem and with the correct frequency
;-T :PICS!:
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The following is offered For Your Information Only. Strictly advisory and not as instructions.
Regarding a possible choice of resistor to add load to your LED turn-signal circuit -
Run-n-lites - http://www.run-n-lites.com - sells aftermarket LED turn-signals for BMWs (ONLY FOR BMW).
The package includes a resistor for each LED turn-signal. The resistor is labeled "10 Watt 100 Ohm J YAGEO 002" It should not be necessary to point out that these resistors are for 12 volt circuits but since I am addressing a bunch of motorcyclists (and motorcyclists who ride Italian motorcycles) I will add that bit of hopefully useful information.
I purchased and installed a set of these Run-n-lites on my BMW R1200 GS and once I installed them according to the supplied instructions they worked great.
One does not (NOT) just wire these resistors in-line with the LED turn-signal. The instructions (which I should have followed in the first place) tell the user to add the resistor to the circuit by attaching one end of the resistor to the positive lead of the turn-signal and the other end to ground (any ground, not necessarily the turn-signal ground though that will work.)
So for those who want to install LED turn-signals and want them to work they way one would expect turn-signals to work and blink at a normal rate but who need to add a resistor to the circuit instead of changing the flasher unit, you might consider using resistors that are rated 12-volt, 10 Watt, 100 Ohm. And don't just insert the resistor in-line with the LED. Or at least don't insert a 12 volt, 10 watt, 100 ohm resistor in-line with the LED and expect it to work the way you would expect a normal turn-signal to work. I'm sure there are other resistors that can be inserted in-line with the LED and those other resistors will work just fine.
Note that resistors do indeed get hot when they are in operation but your turn-signals only operate (DUH!) when your turn-signals are on and even then they are on only momentarily. Then they go off. Then they come on again. Then they go off again. Then they come on again. Then they go off again. So while the resistors will heat up, they won't get very hot because they aren't in use very much. Also, to the best of my knowledge - which is very limited when it comes to electrical stuff - resistors are not "directional" the way capacitors are. So either end of a resistor can be be connected to the turn-signal lead and either end can be connected to ground.
I offer the above information only as a starting point for identifying a resistor that will work with LED turn-signals. Best of luck.