Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cam3512 on June 17, 2013, 07:35:27 PM
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I've been working with the guys at Boxerworks as they modify a Brown sidestand to fit a Tonti framed Guzzi. Brown's were developed as an answer to BMW's crappy stock stand, so why not modify one to replace Guzzi's crappy stock spring activated stand? Specifically I was looking for one to install on my V7 Sport. I've had one on my R75/5 for years and love it. Gotta give credit to Alex of 20th Century Cycles for doing this first. So here's the prototype, and some photos showing the installation.
The modified stand with new mounting plate -
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo4_zps5c53087c.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo4_zps5c53087c.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo7_zpsb682d351.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo7_zpsb682d351.jpg.html)
The mufflers and crossover had to come off the V7 Sport. The long rear engine mount that runs through the back of the tranny had to be reversed with the head to the right side of the bike. The left centerstand pivot bolt also has to be reversed as both screw into threaded holes on the mounting plate. I put a dab of blue loctite on the threads as the nuts are no longer necessary - there isn't enough room.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo5_zpsd3df402c.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo5_zpsd3df402c.jpg.html)
I then realized I had to install the crossover BEFORE the stand was bolted on, so off it came. Once the crossover was back on, the stand was mounted back up. Less room to work, but couldn't do it any other way. Other models may vary depending on type of exhaust, crossover, etc.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo2_zpse94c1f17.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo2_zpse94c1f17.jpg.html)
The pipes went back on, and the mounting plate pretty much dissappeared. My suggestion is to trim down the bottom corners of the mounting plate to make an even more low profile. The stand now sits below the muffler, just to the rear of the foot peg. The sidestand has to be depolyed before the centerstand can come down. That is the natural order of things for me anyway. Bike on sidestand, dismount, then on centerstand (if needed). Or, feel confident leaving the bike on the sidestand. What a concept!
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo2_zpsa06e7091.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo2_zpsa06e7091.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo3_zpse59a6e80.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo3_zpse59a6e80.jpg.html)
Anyone interested in purchasing one of these modified stands can contact Boxerworks direct. Nathan Mende at 706-310-0699, or cell at 706-614-4698. email: nathan@boxerworks-service.com. Be patient, the supply of Brown sidestands isn't what they want it to be. They buy in bulk, but availability isn't always there. Ask Nathan about pricing. Big thanks to Scott Miller for making this happen.
Cam
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Thanks for that. I'm going to go out the shop right now to eyeball the Brown on my /5, and see about making one of these up for my T3.
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Since my Cafe' doesn't have a center stand, do you see any issues with mounting this stand? On my stock stand, there's a little lug that sticks out of the frame and acts as a rest for the current kickstand.
Does this stand need a rest? Will it lay against the muffler, or does it have its own stop?
Doug
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Doug,
Look behind the rear engine/tranny mount. Does your bike have a tab where the center stand would bolt up? If so, it should work. The stand its own stop, and hangs below and outboard of the muffler. If interested, work with the guy at Boxerworks. The design is still evolving.
Cam
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It looks great! Nice and clean. Could maybe use a flat plate on the bottom for sand, gravel and hot asphalt parking lots. ;-T
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Cam, A project like this may go easier if you were to drink a nice Italian beer like Moretti while doing it. :BEER:
Nice job though!
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Looks like it tucks under the muffler nicely but is it easy to deploy? I assume you use the toe of the boot. Any concern about hitting the hot muffler with your boot?
Would have really liked that on the LMIV, which had a precarious sidestand that I rarely used.
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Mark,
The sidestand tucks under and is almost inboard of the muffler, possibly more so than the perspective in Cam's photo shows. Its deployed from the saddle by 1) partially pushing down the center stand via the center stand tang which 2) catches the sidestand and swings it out at which point 3) you slide your foot off of the center stand tang and onto the partially deployed sidestand and complete deployment while the centerstand returns to its resting position. With minimal practice this movement becomes fluid and is less complicated than I am making it sound.
Thinking about Doug from above, without a center stand tang to catch and partially deploy the sidestand, the sidestand would be difficult to deploy from the saddle. Also, the sidestand has a stop built in and does not contact the muffler.
Scott
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Here's a shot looking down on the muffler and stand. It is mounted beneath, but angles outboard just enough to grab hold of the foot and deploy it. Again, this may vary depending on type of pipes, etc. I have the Repro Selentium Shark Gills on the Sport. The pivot point is directly underneath, then the length of the stand slightly angles outward. IMO, this is the perfect position. Pressing down on the centerstand tang does not move the Brown - Just snag the foot and swing it out. Anything is better than the stock stand's position up front. I need to dismount the bike to fight with that.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo8_zps4b798fb7.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo8_zps4b798fb7.jpg.html)
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Cam, A project like this may go easier if you were to drink a nice Italian beer like Moretti while doing it. :BEER:
Nice job though!
Either that, or I'd forget to tighten everything down like they do at the factory.
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Here's a shot looking down on the muffler and stand. It is mounted beneath, but angles outboard just enough to grab hold of the foot and deploy it. Again, this may vary depending on type of pipes, etc.
I stand corrected. What I wrote above regarding deployment goes for my SPNT and LM-3, the bikes on which we built the prototype. But clearly, that is not the case with Cam's bike. This now makes me think the stand may also work well on Doug's bike without a center stand.
Scott
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Looking at it, I think it will work fine too. I still have the holes/tabs from the center stand on the frame, so it should be easy enough to mount it. I'm gonna give them a call.
That retracting sidestand on it now is sketchy at best.
Thanks!
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Looking at it, I think it will work fine too. I still have the holes/tabs from the center stand on the frame, so it should be easy enough to mount it. I'm gonna give them a call.
That retracting sidestand on it now is sketchy at best.
Thanks!
Doug,
At most you'll need a spacer inside the center stand tab for the bolt to run through. Trust me, Jacquie will love it.
Cam
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Hey Cam, any pictures of the bike sitting on the ground on the stand? I'd like to see the angle the bike leans at with this stand.
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Give me a few days to get it off the lift. Trying to squeeze in annual service in between pesky work days.
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Finally got the V7 Sport off the lift to try out the new stand. It's easily deployed with my left heel while sitting on the bike. The "lean angle" is just right, pretty much the same as my stock Brown on the BMW.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo9_zpsc0d0c45e.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo9_zpsc0d0c45e.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo11_zpsb9510542.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo11_zpsb9510542.jpg.html)
And the stock stand has found its new home - right where it belongs!
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s674/Conklin3512/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo10_zps2d803828.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/Conklin3512/media/CONKLIN-PC/Brown%20Tonti/photo10_zps2d803828.jpg.html)
If you have been wanting to ditch the stock stand on you're early Tonti framed bike, TRUST me this is the ticket.
Cam
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I would say this is perfect...except, in true Guzzi fashion, when I called Nathan at Boxerworks, he had a little bad news. The product is great, BUT now they are having problems getting stands from Brown to make this little project happen. So for now I sit here, cash burning a hole in my sweatty mitts, waiting on a reply from Nathan that they have received stands from Brown to in turn make the stand that will finally make my sp (and me) happy. They say good things happen to those who wait, but still, I have my fingers crossed that this little project will finally get rolling.
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Cam,
When you removed the stock stand, did you need any kind of spacer, bushing or washers to take up the space on the engine mounting bolt that was occupied by the stock stand bracket? Or did were you able to bolt it back together as is? Thanks.
Scott
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Hope they can get more stands, I would love to have on on my 77 LeMans.
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Cam,
When you removed the stock stand, did you need any kind of spacer, bushing or washers to take up the space on the engine mounting bolt that was occupied by the stock stand bracket? Or did were you able to bolt it back together as is? Thanks.
Scott
Scott,
One more thick washer did the trick. I was also able to remove the front engine mount bolt without removing headers. The bolt head just clears. I forgot to mention earlier, keep a scissor-jack under the sump while removing the long mount bolts. Easiest way.
Cam
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Bump
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Before spending money on side stands I recommend you ask you self this question. Do I want to ride the motorcycle or do I want to park the motorcycle? If park is the answer then, by all means get a large side stand but, should the answer be ride then chuck the side stand and lean the motorcycle on a tree. Be OK and much stronger than a side stand and cheaper. ;D ;-T ~; :BEER:
Matt
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This Brown is not large, just good. I RIDE the bike, but it doesn't deserve to be parked against a tree. That's just stupid.
Cam
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Mine shipped yesterday!
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This Brown is not large, just good. I RIDE the bike, but it doesn't deserve to be parked against a tree. That's just stupid.
Cam
Never bothered me to lean mine against a tree or anything else I could find but then again, that was back in the days when I could actually ride and thing like that got in the way. Didn't seem stupid to me but if parking the motorcycle is your thing well........... :BEER:
Matt
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Two questions; how much are they charging for this stand, and what determines an "early" Tonti? Is an '87 Tonti a "late" frame and therefore ineligible? I would love to find a better stand for the SPII.
JD
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Go to top of this thread for Boxerworks' contact info. Call Nathan and ask those questions. Should work on your bike.
Cam
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Got mine, this thing is SWEET! It's gonna bolt right on and reach perfectly around the Lafranconi's on my LMIII!
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Two questions; how much are they charging for this stand, and what determines an "early" Tonti? Is an '87 Tonti a "late" frame and therefore ineligible? I would love to find a better stand for the SPII.
JD
A stock Browns stand is $140-150, depending on where you buy. This modified one, I have no idea, but certainly it won't be less.
I've run Browns on 3 BMW Airheads, with similar "spring-loaded" stands, and the improvement is amazing. ;-T
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I moved my sidestand back on my SPII many years ago using the Mille bracket when they were still available. It is mounted in the same area as this. The problem I have is it mounted closer to the muffler and still scrapes on lefthanders. Have any of you ridden some tight turns and does it scape? I sure like the way it looks and want one if it doesnt wear away on the turns. Thanks.
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I havn't got mine on yet, I have to take the scoot to a buddy's shop with a lift. Just eyeballin' but I think I'd have to be riding like Kenny Roberts to scrape this puppy. I'm more worried about putting the thing up when taking off, I've been using center stands for 20+ years. Signed, Harvey Ludd ;-T
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I like it ;-T Thanks. Dave
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9-11-13 -I got mine today. I'm hoping the date is not an omen. Looks great. Very rugged. Can't wait to mount mine tomorrow. I've had my '83 sp for thirty years and have been waiting almost that long for somebody to make a product like this. I'd like to thank Scott, Cam and Nathan for their efforts in this little project. I'm going to try it out on a little trip this weekend; so If you don't hear back from me soon I'll be out on the road. So, like the man said, "Hang it there..."
Gary
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You folks are showing your age. ::) Only old people and Harley riders need those large side stands. ;-T God grew trees so Italian Motorcycle Riders had something the lean their motorcycles on (Truth be told, I have never parked an Italian motorcycle on a tree but several BMW's). ;D ~; :BEER:
Matt
Actually we use to keep them in stock but that was back in the day.
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I've parked LeMans against a tree many times!
You folks are showing your age. ::) Only old people and Harley riders need those large side stands. ;-T God grew trees so Italian Motorcycle Riders had something the lean their motorcycles on (Truth be told, I have never parked an Italian motorcycle on a tree but several BMW's). ;D ~; :BEER:
Matt
Actually we use to keep them in stock but that was back in the day.
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Again, these Browm stands are NOT large. Just functional.
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For anyone interested, I'll bring a stand to the Georgia rally in Suches Saturday morning - look for the tricolore LM-3.
Scott
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For a quality alternative to a Browns sidestand, one can buy a Farley sidestand for a little less cabbage. Call Bob Van Farowe (sp?) in Michigan at 616-896-8469. He makes 'em.
I can say the quality of his stand is as good or better than a Browns, almost similar design.
I replaced the sidestand with a Farley on my R100 and I tell people I wonder why I put up with the OEM stand all those years. Easy left foot deployment, just like on a HD
Just another option
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I just got in touch with them...really 215.00 plus shipping...really? Its a nice set up but it aint gold! Dave
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For anyone interested, I'll bring a stand to the Georgia rally in Suches Saturday morning - look for the tricolore LM-3.
Scott
On an LM-3. ??? Your kidding right? ::( :BEER:
Matt
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I just got in touch with them...really 215.00 plus shipping...really? Its a nice set up but it aint gold! Dave
In touch with whom and for what?
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For a quality alternative to a Browns sidestand, one can buy a Farley sidestand for a little less cabbage. Call Bob Van Farowe (sp?) in Michigan at 616-896-8469. He makes 'em.
I can say the quality of his stand is as good or better than a Browns, almost similar design.
I replaced the sidestand with a Farley on my R100 and I tell people I wonder why I put up with the OEM stand all those years. Easy left foot deployment, just like on a HD
Just another option
Isn't a Farley also made for BMWs? If so, wouldn't that take modification to fit a Guzzi that has already been done to the Brown?
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I emailed Nathan and he is on the 3rd generation with these and says they are doing well with them on the Tonti's.
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Mine is on the way. Very excited. The stock stand on the Cafe sucks big time.
If you look at this picture taken of the Cafe at Barber a couple of years ago, you'll notice that my wallet is propping up the stand so the bike doesn't fall over. While it is appropriate that it's my wallet doing the work, it was a giant pain in the ass. Can't wait for the new stand.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o71/DougRitchie/Barber/BarberCafe-3.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DougRitchie/media/Barber/BarberCafe-3.jpg.html)
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Mine is on the way. Very excited. The stock stand on the Cafe sucks big time.
If you look at this picture taken of the Cafe at Barber a couple of years ago, you'll notice that my wallet is propping up the stand so the bike doesn't fall over. While it is appropriate that it's my wallet doing the work, it was a giant pain in the ass. Can't wait for the new stand.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o71/DougRitchie/Barber/BarberCafe-3.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DougRitchie/media/Barber/BarberCafe-3.jpg.html)
Must be a very fat wallet!
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It's an illusion. The wallet is a tri-fold. The Cafe removed all the money from the wallet.
;D
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Isn't a Farley also made for BMWs? If so, wouldn't that take modification to fit a Guzzi that has already been done to the Brown?
Yes and Yes. I just offered the Farley as an alternative to the Browns...costs a little less for the basic stand.
Here's what a Farley looks like on my R100
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/LuftkopfRay/SDC12292_zps8651993c.jpg) (http://s1313.photobucket.com/user/LuftkopfRay/media/SDC12292_zps8651993c.jpg.html)
Not deployed
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/LuftkopfRay/SDC12293_zpse39c1af4.jpg) (http://s1313.photobucket.com/user/LuftkopfRay/media/SDC12293_zpse39c1af4.jpg.html)...and deployed
For what its worth
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For a quality alternative to a Browns sidestand, one can buy a Farley sidestand for a little less cabbage. Call Bob Van Farowe (sp?) in Michigan at 616-896-8469. He makes 'em.
I can say the quality of his stand is as good or better than a Browns, almost similar design.
I replaced the sidestand with a Farley on my R100 and I tell people I wonder why I put up with the OEM stand all those years. Easy left foot deployment, just like on a HD
Just another option
I called Farley and he is clueless about Tonti frames. He is not making them for Tontis but after I told him there is a market for them and I linked him to the photos and this thread he was very interested so we might see something out of him cheaper. He is making his own for BMWs for about $145.
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Gettin' down with the Brown!
(http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w605/guzzistajohn1/WG/brown001_zps99ed3af3.jpg) (http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn1/media/WG/brown001_zps99ed3af3.jpg.html)
Took me about an hour including Lafranconi polishing, Works nicely ;-T
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John would that work with the stock LMIII pipes/muflers?
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I don't know why it wouldn't, it connects to the sidestand bolt and the long bolt holding the rear of the motor to the frame, the long bolt comes out and goes back in from the RH side of the bike and threads into the plate on the sidestand. I did have to remove the cans and crossover.
(http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w605/guzzistajohn1/WG/003_zps88faaa23.jpg) (http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn1/media/WG/003_zps88faaa23.jpg.html)
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thanks
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Bought one for a customer's '79 SP1000 last week and I knew as soon as I took it out of the box that something wasn't right. Mounted up, my suspicions were confirmed - the stand leg is angled down and the tip is barely 6" off of the ground. :sad: When deployed, it looks like the bike will be too close to vertical as well. Comparing these photos to Cam's above, I believe the pivot part of the bracket was welded to the mounting plate part at an incorrect angle. I've already sent photos to Nathan at Boxerworks and he's trying to figure out what's wrong.
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m5/Amboman4/Boxerworks%20sidestand%202%20001_zpsqwtxwyd4.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m5/Amboman4/Boxerworks%20sidestand%202%20002_zpsevsov35e.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m5/Amboman4/Boxerworks%20sidestand%202%20003_zpsn2sq2buj.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m5/Amboman4/Boxerworks%20sidestand%202%20006_zpsxixrilcr.jpg)
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Yea Charlie, something is not right. When retracted, the stand should basically run parallel to the ground. Nathan should make good on it. The two I've bought (including our first prototype) were correct.